#indiewebcamp 2014-10-11

2014-10-11 UTC
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snarfed announcement: the instagram-to-RSS site i used (http://usubscription.com/instaFeed.php) went down, so i've deployed my own: https://instagram-atom.appspot.com/
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snarfed (similar code to https://facebook-atom.appspot.com/ and http://twitter-atom.appspot.com/ , of course. based on https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial)
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gRegor` kylewm: Why is this check like this? https://github.com/kylewm/redwind/blob/master/redwind/plugins/wm_sender.py#L180 I checked the original and don't understand it there either :)
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gRegor` Why not just check if it's 200?
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@jmsmcfrlnd RT @benwerd: Talking about the post-Facebook #indieweb universe at #cyborgcamp https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/520623825080172544/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/520737241812185088)
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kylewm gRegor`: I borrowed that from vrypan's webmention-tools originally
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kylewm but sometimes you get 202 Accepted instead of 200 OK
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kylewm like if it is put into a response queue
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gRegor` Yeah, I was just thinking that
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kylewm oh ha, sorry for repeating what it says in the comment... i didn't even look :P
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gRegor` I wasn't sure about the // either, vs / in vrypan's
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kylewm that's Python3
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kylewm it converts to floating point if you just use /
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gRegor` Ah
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daf also in later versions of python2
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gRegor` I'm working on a webmention module for ProcessWire, so poking around other people's code for improvements
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daf you can get the python3 behaviour of / in python2 using from __future__ import division
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gRegor` It's database-driven, but I'm considering logging sent wm to a file instead of the table
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kylewm i put that kind of thing in redis with an expiration
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kylewm daf, that's good to know, thanks :]
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+360) "/* 2014 Cambridge Sponsors */ add reclaim hosting and mozilla" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Sponsors (+0) "oops fix link" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Cambridge (+201) "add sponsors" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Snapchat (+449) "add screenshots of SnapSaved" (view diff)
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tantek amazing UI warning dialog content copy by GitHub: https://twitter.com/natevw/status/520633707883819008
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@natevw I clicked the wrong button. https://twitter.com/natevw/status/520633707883819008/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/520633707883819008)
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shaners tantek: earlier i was about the the u-* parsing algo and reading the docs on the mf site.
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tantek cool
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shaners there's no mention of looking for video.u-x[src] or (audio|video) > source.u-*.
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shaners also, i should there be or is it implied ?
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shaners s/also, i //
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Loqi shaners meant to say: should there be or is it implied ?
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shaners tantek: also, i think that u-* parsing algo should look for video[poster] for an image url if there's a .u-photo on video. Thoughts?
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tantek real world examples?
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tantek of video.u-x[src], audio>source.u-*[src], video>source.u-*[src]?
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tantek (definite had considered them, noted as such as considering in h-entry, and now just waiting to see if anyone bothers with real world examples)
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shaners http://sbbme-video.herokuapp.com/videos/2013/05/30/backyard-squirrel-buddy
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tantek boom
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shaners i put .u-photo on my <video[poster]>
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tantek we don't special treat u-photo or any particular u-*
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tantek what we could do is fall back from video.u-x[src], to video.u-x[poster]
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tantek which would handle that
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tantek but would not allow for both src and poster on <video> to be picked up
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tantek but maybe that's ok
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shaners video[src] is a video url, eg .u-video. video[poster] is an image url, eg .u-photo.
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tantek however the microformats2 parser does not look for any particular vocabularies like that in anywhere special
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shaners i think we should do both. in the same way that <a.p-name.u-url[href=url]>name</a> grabs the href for the url and the tag content for the name
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shaners i see your point though about being vocab agnostic
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shaners actually, your suggestion of video[src] falling back to video[poster] is not bad, bc i use:
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shaners video[poster].u-photo > source[src].u-video
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shaners two tags, separated classes.
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tantek exactly why I came to that conclusion, by following your example
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tantek the last question is, should we *imply* a u-photo from video[poster] the way we imply a photo from an img[src]
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tantek I'm inclined to say no until there's a need for it. Your example does explicit markup to be clear, and that's better.
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shaners i lean toward yes, if t's a video post. but no for most posts. so, no is my feeling.
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GWG Evening
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tantek since we can't special case "it's a video post", we must say no
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shaners exactly
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@kevinmarks @siobhanquinn I'd suggest indieWebcamp, though this weekend it's in Cambridge, Mass (twitter.com/_/status/520762662905335808)
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mlncn.withknown.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+350) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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shaners although the parsers can't be expected to know an h-entry X post from an h-entry Y post, in homesteading land, I put .h-entry.as-video on video posts. .h-entry.as-note, etc
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shaners so, for my own purposes i can tell the difference
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tantek shaners - I do the same with h-as-* and simply made up that convention treating -as- as a vendor prefix for those vocabs
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shaners i had conflicted feelings about h-as-* vs as-*. tell me why you decided on h-as-*
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tantek shaners - not sure it was the right decision
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tantek might have been better to just use as-*
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shaners here's the parsed as-* version on my video
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shaners http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsbbme-video.herokuapp.com%2Fvideos%2F2013%2F05%2F30%2Fbackyard-squirrel-buddy
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tantek because it really is "just" a CSS hook and I haven't needed it for anything semantic or data-related.
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shaners YAGNI, or whatever ;)
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tantek thus experience leans much more towards just as-* rather than h-as-*
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tantek I think initially it "felt" right to try making it work as a way of experimenting with object compatbility with ActivityStreams
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shaners yep
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shaners i rember that early discussion
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tantek (vague memories of a session on ActivityStreams and microformats2 compat in 2012 Federated Social Web Summit)
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shaners i used h-as-* on iamshane.com too
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tantek looks for uRLs
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shaners but for the HS proper rebuild, i've moved to just as-*
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tantek that seems like the more sensible conservative approach
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tantek.com edited /link-preview (+230) "/* existing silo support */ added more specifics of Facebook vs. Twitter support" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /link-preview (+787) "more silo examples details, more specific links, add Why and How, re-order sections for more productivity upon finding the page" (view diff)
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mattl oh wow. the camp starts at 9.
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carmen yeah, where i'm from, social events didnt start til 1am
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KevinMarks__ Madrid, Carmen? I remember it having its own timezone
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@kevinmarks “all of your assumptions that aren’t written down are barriers.” https://medium.com/node-js-javascript/building-a-better-node-community-3f8f45b45cb5 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/520847042927529984)
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@raffale RT @kevinmarks: “all of your assumptions that aren’t written down are barriers.” https://medium.com/node-js-javascript/building-a-better-node-community-3f8f45b45cb5 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/520848024986451968)
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ben_thatmust_ The problem with going to bed at 9 PM because I was tired is that I wake up at 4 AM because i'm not
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kevinmarks.com created /noterlive (+168) "Created page with "<dfn>NoterLive</dfn> is a live-noting tool that post to twiter and compiles the notes for posting as a full post. [http://noterlive.com noterlive.com] by {{kevinmarks}}"" (view diff)
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@javascriptd RT @kevinmarks: “all of your assumptions that aren’t written down are barriers.” https://medium.com/node-js-javascript/building-a-better-node-community-3f8f45b45cb5 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/520853202481074176)
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@Fodoj database-antipattern http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern?utm_content=buffer63f74&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/520868943876341760)
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@ayirpelle RT @kevinmarks: “all of your assumptions that aren’t written down are barriers.” https://medium.com/node-js-javascript/building-a-better-node-community-3f8f45b45cb5 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/520871585536692226)
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@dissolve333 @mlncn Nice to see I'm having a positive influence out there. Welcome to the #IndieWeb(btmb.me s/2f) (twitter.com/_/status/520879435520565248)
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ben_thatmust based on the train schedule, i'll be there like an hour early today. if you guys need any help setting up
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tantek good morning #Indiewebcamp!
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joskar Good morning tantek!
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rascul currently 48F in Cambridge, projected high of 54F and 70% chance of rain http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=cambridge%2C+ma
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rascul tomorrow should be a little nicer though :)
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ben_thatmust_ just got in to south station. don't know what I'm doing for the next hour
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rascul i'll be in cambridge in an hour or so
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rascul + a few maybe
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rascul about an hour drive from shrewsbury and we're leaving here shortly
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ben_thatmust_ I do the commuter rail but the schedule on weekends is 1 train every 2 hours or so
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rascul i rode that from boston to grafton, the ride kinda sucked, amtrak is much nicer heh
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ben_thatmust_ I take it daily it's fine for me. I can read and do work. I can't do that in a car
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rascul i had also been on the train all day by that point, it's possible i was getting a little train sick
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ben_thatmust_ red line between park st and kendel is closed, shuttle buses are running
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pdurbin ben_thatmust_: thanks for the heads up. I'll probably bike over (from Brookline).
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ben_thatmust_ in the rain?
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pdurbin I bike to work every day. Rain, snow. Rain pants ftw! :)
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pdurbin some crazy sad stuff happening in the Boston area last night: Brianna Wu on Twitter: "The police just came by. Husband and I are going somewhere safe. Remember, #gamergate isn't about attacking women. http://t.co/ZU6oEVxMGL" - https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/status/520739878993420290
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@Spacekatgal The police just came by. Husband and I are going somewhere safe. Remember, #gamergate isn't about attacking women. https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/status/520739878993420290/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/520739878993420290)
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ben_thatmust__ in case anyone else had a really old entry for the location today, its in the stata building, 32 vasser st
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ben_thatmust__ i was lied to!!
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ben_thatmust__ :D
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hawke.org sandro edited /2014/Cambridge (+41) "/* IndieWebCampCambridge 2014 */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust__ 4th floor
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mattl ugh. Mornings.
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ben_thatmust_1 thats nuts
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ben_thatmust_1 /nick ben_thatmust___
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mattl Is there coffee, ben_thatmust_2?
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ben_thatmust__ mattl, not yet but i think sandro and tim are taking care of that now
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mattl Oh cool. Be there shortly. Just about to cross the river.
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+0) "update counts" (view diff)
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IWC_Cambridge Good morning from MIT!
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@endi any documentation on updating a personal Known implementation? cautious about overwriting configs @benwerd #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/520933579069874176)
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petermolnar had anyone ever succeeded using WordPress with sqlite?
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petermolnar I've tried numerous times and failed miserably
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GWG petermolnar: Someone really should build that database abstraction layer
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petermolnar there is one in theory
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petermolnar https://wordpress.org/plugins/sqlite-integration/
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petermolnar but the whole thing falls apart, becomes sluggy and slow, and i always fail with importing the data
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petermolnar s/sluggy/sluggish
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Loqi petermolnar meant to say: but the whole thing falls apart, becomes sluggish and slow, and i always fail with importing the data
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@benwerd Here on this rainy day for #indiewebcamp at MIT's iconic Stata Center. Not 100% watertight, I'm told. (twitter.com/_/status/520935988743254017)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@mattl @benwerd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_and_Maria_Stata_Center#Lawsuit #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520936235091886081)
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@erinjo Hanging out in the Strata Building at MIT today for IndieWeb Camp. Interior wayfinding seems to be an issue here. (twitter.com/_/status/520936275356831747)
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chrisdancy Need a diet coke
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mattl try the ground floor.
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chrisdancy @mattl vending?
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benwerd On IRC thanks to timmmmyboy's sleuthing
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benwerd MIT blocks it campus-wide!
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mattl chrisdancy: oh. i can show you. let's go. i need one too.
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Loqi benwerd: acegiak left you a message 3 days, 1 hour ago: in your checkins your e-conent contains a script that includes a reference to a varable called L on the first line. that var isnt set in the e-content as far as i can tell so by browser javascript crashes when displaying those notes?
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Loqi benwerd: KevinMarks_ left you a message on 10/8 at 11:03am: are you doing a hwc in Boston tonight?
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mattl benwerd: get a real client ;)
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Loqi benwerd: KevinMarks_ left you a message on 10/8 at 11:03am: are you doing a hwc in Boston tonight?
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chrisdancy @mattl grab me
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mattl let's go.
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge (-173) "/* To-do */ did all those" (view diff)
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www.tombruning.com edited /IRC_People (+1) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2014/Cambridge/Introductions (+1476) "copy from [[2014/UK/Introductions]] and update for Cambridge!" (view diff)
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@dissolve333 Settling in at #indiewebcamp Cambridge. Finally! Been waiting like 8 months for this.(btmb.me s/2h) (twitter.com/_/status/520939404949348352)
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benwerd Tantek starting up with opening welcomes
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benwerd "Welcomes" is a word
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@timmmmyboy I can't think of a more appropriate venue for #indiewebcamp than here at the Stata Center at MIT on the same floor as W3C office. (twitter.com/_/status/520940026365222912)
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benwerd Tantek demoing the realtime channel. Nobody swear
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timmmmyboy What's the URL for livestream?
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KevinMarks morning all
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ben_thatmust__ morning
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pdurbin basic principles: 1. scratch your own itch, 2. self-dogfooding
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ben_thatmust__ aaronpk has the url for the stream, when he sits back down we'll get that to you timmmmyboy
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willowbl00 second room is 449
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timmmmyboy @ben_thatmust__ Cool, just wanted to send out to followers.
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aaronpk_ http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live
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aaronpk_ currently on youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioyudny4mp8
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timmmmyboy @aaronpk_ Thanks!
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IWC_Cambridge1 caseorganic now up at the podium demoing
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@timmmmyboy Join us remotely for #indiewebcamp Cambridge by following along at https://www.youtube.com/ live and in IRC. (twitter.com/_/status/520942303960395776)
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@caseorganic Hello to everyone at #indiewebcamp this morning at MIT! (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/10/11/2/indiewebcamp) (twitter.com/_/status/520942717371564032)
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@dissolve333 Ben Roberts October 11, 2014 10:22 AM Shortlink Yay pesos #indieweb IndieWeb (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/photo/2014/10/11/5) https://twitter.com/dissolve333/status/520943176450723840/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/520943176450723840)
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tantek caseorganic demonstrated photo posting via Instagram, Ownyourgram, PESOS to her own site.
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Cambridge (+95) "add volunteers and livestream link" (view diff)
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tantek … then posted a note on her site, POSSE to Twitter
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Schedule (+16) "update room headings" (view diff)
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@TapestryMaker watching @caseorganic at Indiewebcamp cambridge! (twitter.com/_/status/520943273376894976)
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tantek caseorganic then showed how the copy showed up at Twitter, and then how an @-reply from aaronpk showed up on her site at the permalink of her note
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tantek up now
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tantek benwerd
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tantek demoing Known
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tantek Audio playing
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tantek posting a status update
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tantek choice of network to send it to
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tantek sending it to only LinkedIn
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tantek unchecked Twitter, FB
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@aaronpk We're starting #indiewebcamp Cambridge this morning with demos! Follow along with the livestream: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (twitter.com/_/status/520943667981201409)
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tantek showing recent content he's posted
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/11/2/indiewebcamp linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (webmention)
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tantek comments, notes, etc.
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tantek also a photo posted via Ownyourgram
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caseorganic HELLO
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aaronpk_ yay irc!
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Loqi yay!
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cuibonobo oh hai
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tantek benwerd was addicted to Twitter, Facebook, Instagram
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caseorganic Whew - MIT blocks IRC? How curious.
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tantek and he wanted to not be
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tantek caseorganic: use SSID: StataCenter
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caseorganic benwerd wanted to make his own site that was just as easy to use as Twitter, Facebook and Instagram.
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caseorganic tantek: I did. :)
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tantek benwerd has not posted to those networks first since last June
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@timmmmyboy OwnYourGram: Take your Instagram photos and automatically push them back to your site https://ownyourgram.com/ #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520944058110586880)
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tantek now working on Following
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tantek and reader
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tantek functionality built into Known
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tantek and hopes to get that working this weekend
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caseorganic benwerd++ for demoing http://withknown.com at #indiewebcamp MIT
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Loqi benwerd has 40 karma
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tantek launched Known with erinjo recently
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tantek now up to 3500 sites using it
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ben_thatmust__ wow, thats a pretty impressive number in such a short time
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jdp23 there's about a minute lag on the youtube. so i'm getting the update here first :)
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caseorganic jdp23: yeah, the lag is fun with IRC. :)
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obra gr. known's site-custom styles are overrideable by the theme style
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tantek now up: aaronpk
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tantek demoing URL that he bookmarked
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tantek he got bookmarks working on his own site
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obra also, yay, known site-custom styles are awesome
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Loqi :D
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@mlncn Heading to IndieWebCamp in Cambridge - https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Guest_List - a bit late, and trying to pingback to say i'm coming (twitter.com/_/status/520944862317654016)
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Loqi [mention] http://mlncn.withknown.com/2014/heading-to-indiewebcamp-in-cambridge---2014cambridgeguest_list---a-bit linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (webmention)
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jdp23 @caseorganic if i had been a little quicker on the typing, i could have gotten the reply to your site before you even mentioned it on the video. ooooh time travel!!!!
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2014/10/11/1/indiewebcamp linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge (webmention)
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tantek aaronpk showing Quill launched via a bookmarklet
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benwerd obra: that might be a CSS ordering issue. Happy to take a look
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www.tombruning.com created /User:Tombruning.com (+114) "Created page with "Working on a personal site, trying to incorporate as much of indieweb as I can. Going slowly, but making headway."" (view diff)
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tantek … to post a bookmark
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obra benwerd: sure. happy to show you whenevre
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tantek with highlighted text that shows up as an excerpt
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obra after demos
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tantek you can use Quill on your own site
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tantek Quill.p3k.io
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tantek when you sign-in
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tantek aaronpk pretends to be werd.io
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tantek to show IndieAuth / micropub flow
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caseorganic jdp23: excellent! that would have been fun
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tantek Quill found micropub support so it went to the IndieAuth flow to log in as werd.io
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tantek aaronpk canceled out of that
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@jgarber RT @aaronpk: We're starting #indiewebcamp Cambridge this morning with demos! Follow along with the livestream: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (twitter.com/_/status/520945563672793088)
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tantek now showed what happens if he tries Quill with tantek.com
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@jmarcreichow via @kopfzeiler http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/04/25/indiewebcamps_create_tools_for_a_new_internet.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/520945598061871105)
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tantek it can't find micropub endpoint
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@jgarber RT @timmmmyboy: I can't think of a more appropriate venue for #indiewebcamp than here at the Stata Center at MIT on the same floor as W3C o… (twitter.com/_/status/520945688277168129)
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tantek but then shows documentation of how to start enabling micropub on your site.
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tantek next up
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tantek willowbl00: showing an animation explaining the indieweb that she made!
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tantek her itch is to help other people understand
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tantek wants to add audio to her animation
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willowbl00 indiewebcamp visualization I'll be asking for help writing a script for: http://youtu.be/PRCqOyN4cjE?list=UUh3KWUd-8Fxfu6UxX5-uiFA
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@aaronpk @timmmmyboy Actually Quill is a #POSSE tool since it posts first to your website and doesn't... #indiewebcamp http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/10/11/2/posse-indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520946283993788416)
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caseorganic aaronpk_: tantek: willowbl00 asks the question: is there an etherpad associated with sessions for indiewebcamp? There was the mozilla link before.
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@timmmmyboy RT @aaronpk: @timmmmyboy Actually Quill is a #POSSE tool since it posts first to your website and doesn't... #indiewebcamp http://t.co/Oq5i… (twitter.com/_/status/520946431147143169)
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caseorganic tantek: willowbl00: aaronpk_: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-cambridge
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pdurbin right, linked also from http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge
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@timmmmyboy @aaronpk Ah, thanks for the clarification. Even better! #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520946664212013056)
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caseorganic Note that if you're just joining and are remote, the livestream for IndieWebCamp Cambridge is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioyudny4mp8
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@marksimpkins @caseorganic aww, you guys are having all the fun at MIT (CyborgCamp yesterday, IndieWebCamp today). (twitter.com/_/status/520947098318278656)
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jdp23 whoa on the livestream i'm seeing @casorganic showing the livestream ... recursion :)
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obra erinjo: benwerd: https://s.ly/ - the background color should be orange, I think. https://www.dropbox.com/s/5opcuw2vfeyzcfb/Screenshot%202014-10-11%2010.40.39.png?dl=0 is my site style.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/aaronpk/520943667981201409/520945563672793088 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (webmention)
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caseorganic jdp23: dun dun dun!
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tantek up next: ben_thatmust
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tantek ben.thatmustbe.me
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tantek demonstrating his site
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/aaronpk/520943667981201409/13081242 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/aaronpk/520943667981201409/91704031 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (webmention)
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tantek shows signing into his site via IndieAuth
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benwerd obra: okeydoke. sorry. will take a look. cc erinjo
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caseorganic benwerd: today i'm going to install Known on one of my domains!
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obra benwerd: no apology necessary!
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benwerd caseorganic: yay!
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Loqi yay!
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mattl just log in as tantek and see what happens
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obra you're giving me free software. additional gifts of time or work are just that. gifts.
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benwerd feedback is also a gift
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obra :)
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caseorganic benwerd: the question is which domain? silly.io squawk.io tricky.io wacky.io or worry.io?
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@timmmmyboy I see lots of folks are using IndieAuth on their sites: https://indieauth.com/ Verifying login identity by your domain #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520947881155780608)
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benwerd caseorganic: seriously, that spare domain hack weekend is just waiting to happen
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tantek ben_thatmust started his site based on Opencart
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jdp23 benwerd is there a way to set up known to support indieauth? just tryied using quill on streamltapestrymaker.net and no dice
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benwerd caseorganic: hopefully not too tricky.io
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tantek tore out anything to do with sales etc.
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caseorganic benwerd: true.dat
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tantek … wrote his own micropub UI / endpoint
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tantek … which has its own indieauth login
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benwerd jdp23: yes. there's a plugin called indiepub - comes as standard in the installer package and the hosted service but needs to be enabled
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tantek … shows Google Authenticator login
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jdp23 benwerd cool thanks
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caseorganic benwerd: you still have squirreled.com, right? have you turned it into a known-powered squirrel aggregator yet?
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tantek … shows a UI
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caseorganic benwerd: or perhaps a site on the dangers of digital hoarding?
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tantek shows (Delete) UI
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benwerd caseorganic: okay, forget everything else, that's what's happening this weekend
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tantek … and if he deleted by accident, shows (Undelete) support
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tantek can do New posts to to Create Posts
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benwerd undelete support is awesome
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caseorganic undelete support - nice
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tantek Ntoes, article, rsvp, checkin, like, bookmark
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tantek s/Ntoes/Notes
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Loqi tantek meant to say: Notes, article, rsvp, checkin, like, bookmark
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benwerd VERY nice reposting support.
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tantek … shows going to a post on tantek.com
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tantek copying the permalink
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tantek and pasting into a URL parameter into his micropub endpoint URL
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tantek auto-fills the content for reposting
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tantek ben_thatmust: it gets the content from the tantek.com permalinks by curling it, parsing it with phpmf2 for microformats, and pulling out the properties / contents etc.
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tantek … I want it to detect the type of post too
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benwerd ben_thatmust: super-cool
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tantek … past couple of weeks he implemeted Delete and Undelete
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@mattl Watch #indiewebcamp live https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/520948869430259712)
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caseorganic chrisdancy is up next to do a demo
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tantek ben_thatmust: his UI shows all deleted posts to him when he's logged in
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tantek … so he can undelete them
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@aaronpk @timmmmyboy Come to think of it, it's not even POSSE because there is no syndicated copy! It's just an #indieweb app! #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520949140486774784)
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mattl ben_thatmustbeme: does that mean anyone with the URL to a deleted item can get it, even once its "deleted"?
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tantek up next
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caseorganic benwerd: when you're in portland next let me know. i'll host the spare domain hack day. that's actually a good name. SDHD.
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tantek chrisdancy
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ben_thatmust__ mattl, no, drafts are viewable via permalink, but deleted pages do no
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@benwerd @aaronpk @timmmmyboy But it could _trigger_ syndication, right? #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520949457240604672)
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tantek chrisdancy: showing OhLife
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benwerd caseorganic: I would come specially. Mostly I come to Portland for Indie Web Camp ;)
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tantek but OhLife is shutting down!
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caseorganic chrisdancy: "today is my birthday. ohlife is shutting down today"
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caseorganic adds ohlife to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths
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tantek … see also timehop and memoir
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caseorganic "perspective as a service apps"
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@benwerd Learning that a service called #OhLife is shutting down, and now I have the world's worst earworm. Doo doo-doo doo ... #desree #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520949950545289217)
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jdp23 benwerd that worked, cool. although there weren't any syndication targets
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tantek … wants something that sends him message that tells him what happened.
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pdurbin a la timehop
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ben_thatmust__ oh also, ben.thatmustbe.me/new for the micropub client
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benwerd jdp23: I'll try and look at that today
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tantek and "indieweb timehop"
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jdp23 benwerd no big deal, no urgency ... should i file a github issue?
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ben_thatmust__ happy birthday chrisdancy
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benwerd jdp23 sure, yes please
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benwerd Happy birthday chrisdancy. (If anyone missed Cyborg Camp yesterday, Chris's talk was transformative and awesome.)
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ben_thatmust__ what is indiehop
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "indiehop" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=indiehop
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caseorganic.com edited /site-deaths (+269) "/* Past */ Added OhLife Shutdown" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/facebook/11500459/10101657765167226/732637625 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (webmention)
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@timmmmyboy Great idea by @chrisdancy to build TimeHop style service for indie sites. Get an email each day with memory from your domain. #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520951095909433344)
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cuibonobo what is TimeHop
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "TimeHop" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=TimeHop
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@aaronpk @benwerd @timmmmyboy If your site supports that, yes! Check out https://quill.p3k.io/docs #indiewebcamp (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/10/11/4/indiewebcamp) (twitter.com/_/status/520951243951202304)
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chrisdancy thanks for thinking about sending me my memories
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obra caseorganic: https://twitter.com/TwitPic/status/512705809696837632
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@TwitPic We're happy to announce we've been acquired and Twitpic will live on! We will post more details as we can disclose them (twitter.com/_/status/512705809696837632)
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cuibonobo video feed has been buffering for almost a minute. is it just me?
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aaronpk_ let me check it out
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cuibonobo a refresh fixed it
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aaronpk_ ah k
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aaronpk_ i had lots of wifi issues with the livestream yesterday, but that may be because lots of people came online later in the day. it's pretty quiet on campus here today so i'm hoping it's more stable
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ben_thatmust__ caseorganic perhaps a restored section for site-deaths just for upcoming.org
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benwerd Encouraging timmmmyboy to demo Domain of One's Own tech - domains for every student!
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obra erinjo: benwerd: is there a withknown irc channel?
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benwerd obra: there is not. As of this morning there is now community.withknown.com
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aaronpk_ tantek showing how he has implemented actions on his posts
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obra (I poked at withknown.com and couldn't find a link)
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obra nodnod
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aaronpk_ showing indie-action tag markup
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aaronpk_ http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions
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aaronpk_ so that the "like" or "repost" buttons post those to your own site rather than just liking on twitter
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bret hey iwc mit!
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obra aw. community.withknown.com doesn't let me indieauth against my own known site ;)
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aaronpk_ just realized we have two aarons, two jesses, and two bens here. (sort of, minus spelling differences)
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bret haha
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caseorganic.com edited /site-deaths (+319) "/* Upcoming */ Added update to Twitpic shutdown and later acquisition announcement" (view diff)
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Loqi rofl
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bret aaronpk_: is there a lifestream?
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timmmmyboy If there's still time I'd be happy to do a demo, can show Known integration with students.
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bret life(
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jdp23_ i think this "reply-in-context" is incredibly important
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mattl bret: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioyudny4mp8
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@kyle_wm RT @aaronpk: We're starting #indiewebcamp Cambridge this morning with demos! Follow along with the livestream: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (twitter.com/_/status/520953824073105409)
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bret mattl++
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Loqi mattl has 3 karma
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jdp23_ obra you may need to enable IndiePub in the site features. once I did that I could use IndieAuth
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tantek what is IndiePub?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IndiePub" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=IndiePub
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ben_thatmust__ jdp23_ i agree
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benwerd obra: you'll need to grab the plugin because you're running from git https://github.com/idno/indiepub
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benwerd tantek: it's the combination IndieAuth / Micropub plugin for Known
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aaronpk_ oh my
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bret tantek, dig the changes!
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tantek thanks bret!
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tantek up next
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obra ahhhh
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tantek pdurbin - demoing greptilian.com - his site
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tantek wiki.greptilian.com
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tantek three itches
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tantek owning your own data
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tantek building community
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tantek reproduceability of results
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tantek (those three)
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tantek under the owning your own data, storing his wiki in git
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jdp23_ benwerd i see what obra's talking about. if i try to sign in to community.withknow.com it prompts for an email address, not a domain
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tantek it's based on ikiwiki
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tantek see /ikiwiki for more
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benwerd ahhhhhh
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benwerd I see. True
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benwerd cracks knuckles. Project!
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aaronpk_ benwerd: +100000 for supporting indieauth logins on community.withknown.com!
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obra :)
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aaronpk_ or more accurately, +2500
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benwerd aaronpk_ No, I don't
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benwerd Hold back
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benwerd Wait wait
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benwerd Future-me will
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tantek … uses markdown for the document format in his wiki
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tantek … has a few haunts on the home page of his wiki
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tantek … where he hangs out
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tantek … IRC
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tantek … lot of value in channels that are logged
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/aaronpk/520943667981201409/520953824073105409 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (webmention)
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bear looks like a great showing for IWC
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tantek (bear - it is!)
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tantek pdurbin hosts his own irc logs
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@mattl @philipdurbin demoing ikiwiki at #indiewebcamp -- @joeyhess (twitter.com/_/status/520954834024153088)
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tantek irclog.greptilian.com
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tantek he didn't write the bot, written by moritz
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tantek instance is called philbot
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tantek shows a log of friendlyjava - when he gave a talk at JavaOne last week
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tantek also runs a logging bot at work
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tantek shows dataverse channel log
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tantek a way to upload and get a citation
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tantek dataverse is all about reproduceability
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tantek on github he has a repo called greptilian-vagrant
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tantek github.com/pdurbin/greptilian-vagrant
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tantek anyone can clone his setup
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tantek all the configuration is stored in this repo
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tantek the point of vagrant is that you just type "vagrant up" and you get a virtual machine right there on your own box
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ben_thatmust__ love the idea of having all the configuration in a vagrant set up
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ben_thatmust__ pdurbin++ for that
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tantek up next
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Loqi pdurbin has 4 karma
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tantek Tim Owens
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tantek he's coming from a highered backround
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tantek ben and the Known group introduced him to indieweb
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tantek giving every student faculty staff that wants one - domain hosting
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tantek UMW.domains
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tantek University of Mary Washington
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tantek when students log in they use their university credentials
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tantek they choose their domain and they get redirect right into cpanel
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tantek what is cpanel?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "cpanel" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=cpanel
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tantek tim … shows creating a domain
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tantek uses a plugin for cpanel
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tantek called installatron
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tantek it's not open source, but it's pretty powerful. one-click installer
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tantek includes open source software to install, but also has an API to add more to the install
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tantek one way to customize it
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tantek can also build their own applications
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@mattl Domain squatters. Get http://timgetsatestdomain.org now before @timmmmyboy does another demo. #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520956503197749248)
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tantek has a section "For Education"
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tantek creates packages that students can install
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tantek benwerd gave them some of the code that runs withknown.com - sign up process so they could use it for courses
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benwerd timmmmmyboy is demoing a hub: known users can syndicate to this hub known site
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bear.im created /cpanel (+223) "Created page with "<dfn>cPanel is a web based hosting control panel that provides an interface to tools designed to simplify the requirements of hosting a web site</dfn> * https://en.wikipedia.org..."" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ bear++
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Loqi bear has 34 karma
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tantek Tim shows how a student could create a site with Known, but as part of an existing Known hub
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tantek when they're registering it's registering on that hub
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pdurbin "I'll just keep adding m's until it works." --timmmmyboy
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@benwerd Demo: @timmmmyboy installs @withknown #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/520957554768093184/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/520957554768093184)
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@mattl Hey @timmyboy and @timmmyboy please come to #indiewebcamp and meet @timmmmyboy (twitter.com/_/status/520957769915334656)
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tantek … for us this is about student agency
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tantek … they have their own space
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tantek … when they publish things, they can just publish on their own site
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tantek … or they can push to Twitter etc.
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tantek … and they can push it to the hub, that faculty member, e.g. when they're submitting assignments
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@timmmmyboy Demoing Known in Domain of One's Own for #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520958060932902912)
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tantek.com edited /cpanel (+17) "stub, fix dfn" (view diff)
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@benwerd RT @timmmmyboy: Demoing Known in Domain of One's Own for #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520958144605081601)
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tantek … demos posting to his demo Known, and syndicating to the wire106 hub
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jdp23 benwerd is the known hub site a syndication target just like the others?
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@jeckman RT @aaronpk: We're starting #indiewebcamp Cambridge this morning with demos! Follow along with the livestream: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (twitter.com/_/status/520958266906779648)
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aaronpk_ i'm curious about how this hub thing works!
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bear.im edited /cpanel (-53) "linkify dfn" (view diff)
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jdp23 aaronpk_ me too :)
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tantek … helping students get their feet wet
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tantek … they can take their domain when they graduate
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@benwerd From now on, @timmmmyboy is doing our pitches for us. @withknown #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/520958633882816512)
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@mattl Is there a free software tool like cpanel? #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520958656897376256)
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tantek … there's a system for the students to transfer their domain to another registrar
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tantek … so they can retain it forever
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bret are we not using http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com ?
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aaronpk_ using the mozilla one
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bret k
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rascul https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-cambridge
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@jimgroom RT @benwerd: From now on, @timmmmyboy is doing our pitches for us. @withknown #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/520959103456522240)
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jdp23 great demos! taking off now -- i might try to join in some of the sessions later if it's doable remotely
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pdurbin three things for the card (barcamp style): 1. title/brief description (i.e. webactions), 2. your name, 3. hashtag for your session and indieweb-yourhashtag etherpad
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@jimgroom Why am I not surprised @timmmmyboy tore up @withknown demo on @reclaimhosting at @indiewebcamp in Boston. #4life (twitter.com/_/status/520959758938173442)
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pdurbin i.e. https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-webactions
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/aaronpk/520943667981201409/520958266906779648 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (webmention)
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bret Make sure to post your pads into IRC or even better on to https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-cambridge
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bret Is there a photo of the session schedule I can copy into the wiki?
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aaronpk_ not yet
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benwerd bret: it's empty so far
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aaronpk_ we're abotu to start scheduling
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bret rgr, if you can get me that photo when scheduling is done i can start getting that into the wiki
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pdurbin bret: plan is to snap a photo before lunch, which will be in an hour and a half
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aaronpk_ awesome
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pdurbin lunch at clover: http://www.cloverfoodlab.com/location-and-hours/ https://twitter.com/cloverKND
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@anomalily Hey #indiewebcamp cambridge peeps! I’m spying on you via the livestream. It feels a bit…voyeuristic. (twitter.com/_/status/520961433270366208)
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@anomalily My twitter stream is a competition between #indiewebcamp and #DayOfTheGirlBGC @BlackGirlsCode is building ROBOTS (twitter.com/_/status/520962638138732544)
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@BlackGirlsCode RT @anomalily: My twitter stream is a competition between #indiewebcamp and #DayOfTheGirlBGC @BlackGirlsCode is building ROBOTS (twitter.com/_/status/520962721169551360)
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@Adebukola RT @anomalily: My twitter stream is a competition between #indiewebcamp and #DayOfTheGirlBGC @BlackGirlsCode is building ROBOTS (twitter.com/_/status/520963044747538432)
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@anomalily In my ideal world, very soon the code divas of @BlackGirlsCode will be AT #indiewebcamp building a more open web. <3 #DayOfTheGirlBGC (twitter.com/_/status/520963147285274624)
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@BlackGirlsCode RT @anomalily: In my ideal world, very soon the code divas of @BlackGirlsCode will be AT #indiewebcamp building a more open web. <3 #DayOfT… (twitter.com/_/status/520963278223450113)
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aaronpk_ tantek: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live
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aaronpk_ i'm going to update the youtube link there as it changes
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aaronpk_ cause it'll be different after lunch
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@Adebukola RT @anomalily: In my ideal world, very soon the code divas of @BlackGirlsCode will be AT #indiewebcamp building a more open web. <3 #DayOfT… (twitter.com/_/status/520964168825208833)
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@t Awesome personal site demos kick off the first #IndieWebCamp Cambridge! Now session scheduling: http://www.youtube.com/ (ttk.me t4Y_1) (twitter.com/_/status/520964618236481536)
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@jkphl .@t What a pity that the livestream isn't available in Germany. Thx @YouTube / @GEMAdialog >:( Have fun y'all @indiewebcamp! o/ (twitter.com/_/status/520965310460231682)
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sixtwothree.org edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+251) "/* Remote Participants */ Adding myself to remote participant list." (view diff)
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jgarber :point_up: Morning, IndieWebCamp folks! I'll be down here in rainy Richmond, VA following along and working on some things.
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bret lol getting a camera demo
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@aaronpk @jkphl @t Yeah :-( Yesterday at CyborgCamp someone set up a socks proxy for people in Germany. #indiewebcamp (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/10/11/5/indiewebcamp) (twitter.com/_/status/520966194698805248)
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gRegor` Hello, #indiewebcamp Cambridge!
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bret cool schedule time :)
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bret thanks for the readout, can't quite make out the words in the videp
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aaronpk_ bret: incoming
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bret uh oh lost the stream
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post-by-email uploaded /File:20141011-160521.jpg "Uploaded via email by Aaron Parecki <aar*@*recki.com>"
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aaronpk_ yeah, paused before the next session starts
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aaronpk_ i'm making separate youtube URLs for each session
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aaronpk_ bret: http://indiewebcamp.com/File:20141011-160521.jpg
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bret !!!!
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bret rad aaronpk_
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aaronpk_ should be live here now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU6zpvm3tQk
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pdurbin installer session about how to make installation of indieweb softare easier by mattl starting: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-installer
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tantek aaronpk can you take/post a photo of the session grid? mine came out a bit blurry.
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aaronpk_ tantek: http://indiewebcamp.com/File:20141011-160521.jpg
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tantek aaronpk - needs rotation :)
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kylewm what software is mattl talking about? re: "we're also in PHP"
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tantek hmm - yours is also blurry at the necessary resolutions
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aaronpk_ i'll take one with my slr
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Live (+400) "add URLs for each livestream session" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live
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@t Pouring outside here in Cambridge - great day to be indoors brainstorming how to improve the #indieweb. (ttk.me t4Y_2) (twitter.com/_/status/520971266623537152)
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aaronpk_ tantek: https://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/15505486162/
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aaronpk_ bret: https://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/15505486162/sizes/o/
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@jkphl .@aaronpk :D Keep it like that — and enjoy yourself (and the #indiewebcamp). Looking forward to meeting you on Thursday! #bono14 (twitter.com/_/status/520971495989055489)
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pdurbin kylewm: https://getcomposer.org for PHP was mentioned, not sure if by mattl. I added it to https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-installer
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bret.io edited /2014/Cambridge/Schedule (+298) "/* Saturday, October 11, 2014 (Brainstorming) */" (view diff)
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bret aaronpk_: took a first pass
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bret i'll go through now and link to videos and etherpads
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kylewm GNU social I think it is
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Live (-32) "update links" (view diff)
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aaronpk_ thanks!
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@domenicoperri Installers Made Easy - IndieWebCamp Cambridge 2014: http://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/520972892125675520)
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@invispide Installers Made Easy - IndieWebCamp Cambridge 2014: http://www.youtube.com/ via @YouTube (twitter.com/_/status/520973409077837824)
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@invispide I liked a @YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/ Installers Made Easy - IndieWebCamp Cambridge 2014 (twitter.com/_/status/520973477147209728)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Live (+42) "timezones" (view diff)
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@aaronpk We'll be livestreaming all the #indiewebcamp sessions in the main room today! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (twitter.com/_/status/520973764750626816)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/11/3/indiewebcamp linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (webmention)
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aaronpk_ bear: we should talk soon about h.264 -> webrtc video :)
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benwerd Paging j12t
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bret.io edited /2014/Cambridge/Schedule (+90) "/* Saturday, October 11, 2014 (Brainstorming) */ Linked most sessions" (view diff)
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bret aaronpk_: a total of two sessions right now?
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aaronpk_ yes
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benwerd !tell j12t Interesting feedback from timmmmyboy - would like packages vs an entire distribution (helps run Reclaim Hosting)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret.io created /2014/Cambridge/ (+28) "Redirected page to [[2014/Cambridge]]" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /2014/Cambridge/Schedule (+72) "/* Saturday, October 11, 2014 (Brainstorming) */ Finished linking" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/aaronpk/520973764750626816/93659884 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (webmention)
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bret.io created /2014/Cambridge/installer (+64) "Linked session etherpad" (view diff)
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@t in #indiewebcampscript session led by @willowbl00 on narrating this #indieweb tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/ (ttk.me t4Y_3) (twitter.com/_/status/520978069063229440)
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pdurbin new! https://github.com/mattl/indieweb-installer ... to carry on the conversation :)
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@Mekaeg RT @anomalily: In my ideal world, very soon the code divas of @BlackGirlsCode will be AT #indiewebcamp building a more open web. <3 #DayOfT… (twitter.com/_/status/520978503546970112)
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@Mekaeg RT @anomalily: My twitter stream is a competition between #indiewebcamp and #DayOfTheGirlBGC @BlackGirlsCode is building ROBOTS (twitter.com/_/status/520978527471284224)
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@erik_paulson RT @t: Awesome personal site demos kick off the first #IndieWebCamp Cambridge! Now session scheduling: http://www.youtube.com/ (ttk.me t4Y_1) (twitter.com/_/status/520979397130461184)
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GWG Sounds like a nice crowd there
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blog.bl00cyb.org edited /2014/Cambridge/Guest_List (+267) "/* Participants */ added willow" (view diff)
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GWG I'm just happy, since I'm in and out, that the sessions are recorded this time and up on a silo for my enjoyment
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@domenicoperri RT @timmmmyboy: OwnYourGram: Take your Instagram photos and automatically push them back to your site https://ownyourgram.com/ #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/520980849266008064)
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carmen guess this google-streaming thing requires Flash.
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carmen wonder if Gnash or something works
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GWG carmen: You should be able to do HTML5
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carmen chromium has all 6 boxes ticked on http://www.youtube.com/html5 but it just spins a progress/bufffer
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carmen POST 406 <http://clients1.google.com/ocsp> GET 404 <http://clients1.google.com/generate_204> GET 404 <http://www.google-analytics.com/ga.js> GET 404 <http://www.googletagservices.com/tag/js/gpt.js>
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@VolunteerBGCNY RT @anomalily: In my ideal world, very soon the code divas of @BlackGirlsCode will be AT #indiewebcamp building a more open web. <3 #DayOfT… (twitter.com/_/status/520981639154135040)
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carmen maybe if you unblock their dozens of spyware hosts embedded in nearly every page on the internet it works?
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carmen what's a good /etc/hosts manager?
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@VolunteerBGCMem RT @anomalily: My twitter stream is a competition between #indiewebcamp and #DayOfTheGirlBGC @BlackGirlsCode is building ROBOTS (twitter.com/_/status/520981844024893440)
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carmen GET chrome-extension://enhhojjnijigcajfphajepfemndkmdlo/cast_sender.js net::ERR_FAILED
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carmen weird, so it must install some extension
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bret carmen: there are h.264 streams too
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bret i have a safari :( plugin that replaces the flash with h264 counterpart
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bret tell me if the schedule needs updating... you all now have a wiki schedule and etherpads made for all the sessions: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-cambridge http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge_Schedule
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aaronpk_ lunch break!
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bret let me know if you guys need any other organizational help on the collab front
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@cindygallop RT @anomalily: In my ideal world, very soon the code divas of @BlackGirlsCode will be AT #indiewebcamp building a more open web. <3 #DayOfT… (twitter.com/_/status/520985216417292288)
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@cindygallop RT @anomalily: My twitter stream is a competition between #indiewebcamp and #DayOfTheGirlBGC @BlackGirlsCode is building ROBOTS (twitter.com/_/status/520985306649329664)
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@domenicoperri IndieWebCamp Cambridge 2014: http://www.youtube.com/ via @YouTube (twitter.com/_/status/520985771260399620)
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carmen echo 127.0.0.1 localhost > /etc/hosts doesn't fix it. i bet "full chrome" on mac/win works fine
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carmen it's impossible to get F12 debugger working on the other live streams, as it's apparemtly making 100s of requests a second. up to "5964" requests after about 10 sweconds
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carmen unsure if those are all for hte livechat or it's literally requesting each frame in its own req or some other SNAFU
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carmen most open-sores nazi events ive attended in europe use ogg streaming using stuff built into debian an dit all works fine in vlc or mplayer...
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carmen i guess this indiewebcamp is about celebrating proprietary corporate streaming solutions though....
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bret carmen: are you on a mac?
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carmen much like boston itslef. that's why i live a 30 minute bikeride from the southern end of the redline.. you' basically have to sign a NDA and work on propreiary surveillytics
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carmen otherwise you wont be able to come up with $2500/mo for a decent 1br not in roxbury...
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carmen Thinkpad X60 and http://www.voidlinux.eu/
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carmen maybe i'll just get on my bike and get completely soaked an dmake the 2 hour bike + walk + train commute ot Kendlal Sqr :)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/aaronpk/520973764750626816/139199211 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (webmention)
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@jgarber Second time in recent memory that #indiewebcamp is on a weekend I’m visiting Richmond, VA. Participating remotely on this rainy Saturday. (twitter.com/_/status/520990273292496896)
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carmen <error><domain>GData</domain><code>ServiceException</code><internalReason>Internal Server Error</internalReason></error></errors>
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carmen hrmm, theyre giving me 500s. feels like google only tests with "full chrome", (not chromium?) and only when users are signed in?
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carmen hypercomplexity for sure in this livestreaming thing. a good old <video> tag has handled streaming video since what, 2008?
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@jeckman Left #indiewebcamp to join #bcbos for a while. #toomanycamps Excellent ideas and talks at both #cambridgeFTW (twitter.com/_/status/520996779748515841)
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@jeckman RT @dshanske: How I Set Up My Indieweb WordPress Site (https://david.shanske.com/articles/2014/10/02/site-setup/) (twitter.com/_/status/520999269109870593)
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bret you guys back?
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daf just back from lunch
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bret neato
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daf aaron says live stream should be up
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bret yeah my browser didn't catch the stream at first... working great thanks aaronpk_
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bret (and daf)
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bret waves through the video camera
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bret don't forget to use your etherpads https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-cambridge
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aaronpk_ we're here! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fim6rsTCyh4
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caseorganic Loqi, should I install Known on squeak.io or silly.io?
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Loqi silly.io
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@mattl At #indiewebcamp with @obra @t @benwerd and more. (twitter.com/_/status/521000592635084800)
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bret caseorganic: don't forget to use https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-installknown
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bret especially since there isn't video on that session
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bret :) https://www.dropbox.com/s/y2fmy0rricjnex1/Screenshot%202014-10-11%2011.15.49.png?dl=0
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aaronpk_ bret++
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Loqi bret has 33 karma
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bret what are you searching for?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "you searching for" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+searching+for
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bret http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-09-28#t1411927207068 ?
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ben_thatmust___ bret, i'll try to watch the chat closer if you have any question
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ben_thatmust___ s
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bret ben_thatmust___: you there?
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ben_thatmust___ yep
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bret :) sweet
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bret ill ping on your name for qs
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ben_thatmust___ sitting to the left, don't know if you can see me, maroon shirt
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@invispide indieweb: http://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/521002614339538944)
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@domenicoperri RT @invispide: indieweb: http://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/521002822268370944)
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gRegor` Since I'm already working on a new webmention plugin for ProcessWire, I might attempt to add vouch to it tomorrow.
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aaronpk_ well it should be pretty easy to verify vouches!
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gRegor` Yeah, danlyke is doing that
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@benwerd Learning that very few shared hosts support PHP 5.4 by default. So, that's it: we're backporting @withknown to 5.3. #weep #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/521003649636392960)
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pdurbin such as namecheap as a PHP host
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aaronpk_ benwerd: sadface!
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bear that is indeed horrible news
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benwerd a single tear
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benwerd actually, that's a lie
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benwerd multiple tears
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timmmmyboy benwerd: with no option for end-user to upgrade? That scenario would be a hurdle but easier to overcome. Host that doesn't support it period is questionable host.
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caseorganic obra: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/592322/php-expects-t-paamayim-nekudotayim
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aaronpk_ double-double-dot
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gRegor` Watch out for so-and-so that's harassing people?
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gRegor` Whos is TommyTroll? ;)
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benwerd There were questions about Known on nginx. Here's a tutorial: https://elliottucker.net/2014/setting-up-known-with-nginx-indieweb
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bear has that tutorial been updated to fix the path issue that known plugins use?
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bear I know I had to stop using nginx for leo's site because the twitter callback would not work
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carmen nginx seems less pedantic than Apache WRT RFC-compliance .stuff like tossing etags and always 200ing script-backends
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carmen requires a lot more explicit whitelisting of headers also
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carmen and dont forget to additionally set the Access-Control-Expose-Headers header or else a browser or something else will toss it anyways
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gRegor` Unless the spam link is on a Wikipedia User page
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gRegor` I bet those won't be cleaned up nearly as fast
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bret ben_thatmust___: can you bring up wikipdeia user pages as a target for spam?
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gRegor` (I'm commenting on the vouch session, in case these comments seem random)
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bret indieklout... jk
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gRegor` Heh
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bret it was gregor! I just pinged
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bret no idea
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gRegor` I don't see it as a big problem. I don't think I would trust wikipedia as a vouch
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bret seems sketchy
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aaronpk_ confirmed wikipedia adds rel=nofollow to links on user pages
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bret aaronpk_: rgr
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aaronpk_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tom_Morris#Quick_Links
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bret is that all of media wiki?
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gRegor` Probably
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aaronpk_ indiewebcamp wiki does not
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bear that is why I like how the vouch spec leaves verification as a blackbox -- it's going to encourage different methods
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aaronpk_ yes
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gRegor` I think I'm a bit confused on the rel-no-follow. I thought that had to be on our sites when we link to Wikipedia, for example.
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aaronpk_ it can be
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aaronpk_ that just means that your post that links to wikipedia won't be used as a vouch
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bear blacklist is not required if people use vouch verification methods that are organic and being refreshed often (i.e. by having TTL for how far back you allow a vouch link to be used)
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gRegor` And when I check a vouch URL, I should verify it's not a rel-no-follow link to my domain? I think I'm getting it
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bret what I like about this is that a lot of places in portland just require vouches to get in.... ("whoa whoa, who are you?" "nah man its cool I know elliott" "ohh yeah ok cool come on in")
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bret (and all over really... ha!)
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bret vouched for by weev
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gRegor` It appears all external links on Wikipedia have rel-nofollow
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mattl bret: someone had to name drop me to get into a bar in Boston last week.
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bear is tantek saying that a blogroll is a vouch source?
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bret mattl! exactly!
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gRegor` I'm on the big screen
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gRegor` Or not. Not refreshing.
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@alanpearceuk RT @kevinmarks: “all of your assumptions that aren’t written down are barriers.” https://medium.com/node-js-javascript/building-a-better-node-community-3f8f45b45cb5 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/521008435803209728)
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bret if you see a link between two sites, and the linkee supports wm, and no wm has been sent, a 3rd party can come in and send the wm
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@Thesueshi RT @anomalily: My twitter stream is a competition between #indiewebcamp and #DayOfTheGirlBGC @BlackGirlsCode is building ROBOTS (twitter.com/_/status/521009174155915265)
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@Neilnanderson RT @aaronpk: We'll be livestreaming all the #indiewebcamp sessions in the main room today! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (twitter.com/_/status/521009801359147008)
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bear aaronpk_ or ben_thatmust___ - did they say how the vouch is sent along with the webmention? as a header or a new param to the GET?
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aaronpk_ bear: an additional parameter
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bear ta
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aaronpk_ vouch=
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bear 449 is something that Microsoft introduced - no?
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aaronpk_ yep we found that on wikipedia
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GWG I missed Vouch
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GWG Darn
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bret GWG: its still going on
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bret (or is it about to end and the video circled back)
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aaronpk_ bret: sometimes the player skips back, you can probrably refresh to catch back up
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io (+41) "/* Events */" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /User:Bret.io (+76) "/* Current IndieWeb Projects */" (view diff)
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GWG bret: I see people debating.
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GWG I just sent it to the Chromecast
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GWG I can watch the replay
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GWG That makes this the best IWC ever
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aaronpk_ :)
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GWG aaronpk_: You'll have to tell me your setup.
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Loqi [mention] http://www.nextinnonprofits.com/2014/10/nonprofit-content-distribution-and-posse/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE#Partial_POSSE_sites (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/aaronpk/520973764750626816/521009801359147008 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live (webmention)
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GWG This works better than talky. Although less interaction.
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ben_thatmust___ s/trust/approve/ on that whole conversation
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bret Sounds like this vouch stuff could benefit from more graffle charts
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bear GWG - I have to agree sadly - we really need to get recording and broadcast implemented in talky
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bret bear++
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Loqi bear has 35 karma
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aaronpk_ bear: we're gonna try out this broadcaster with an h.264->webrtc gateway soon right? :D
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bret a braodcast talky room, with only a single video feed and maybe a chatroom
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bear aaronpk, bret - those are both on the feature list for our november schedule
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IWC_Cambridge2 what is graffle?
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daf I'm working on a flowchart!
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "graffle" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=graffle
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GWG bear: Talky is designed for multiple people...not for this sort of livestreaming...
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bear gwg - yep, but it's a "pro" feature we are considering
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bret bear: and webRTC p2p video broadcast so more viewers = more BW for everyone
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GWG bear: I look forward to it.
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GWG That, and watching what I missed earlier.
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bear bret - we would have a video bridge to avoid death-by-mesh
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bret or did bittorrent inc slurp up all patents on that
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bret anyone know of tools to generate online versions of https://www.omnigroup.com/omnigraffle style charts?
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bear lucidchart.com
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GWG is working on a non-itch
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jdp23 i'm working on somebody else's itch :-|
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GWG jdp23: Oh?
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jdp23 i have a 2-panel display with the chat in the left panel, a thread in the right panel
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kylewm GWG: sometimes scratching creates an itch
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GWG I'm working on WordPress stuff again.
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jdp23 the chat direciton is togglable: new messages at bottom (IRC style) or at top (Twitter style)
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jdp23 half of my users want to be able to toggle the direction of the thread as well to match the chat :-|
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jdp23 personally i couldn't care less but it matters a lot to them. so .... time to scratch
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GWG It's pretty lacking in excitement. I'm rewriting the settings menu using the WordPress Settings API. Once I have the menu set up, I can code the functionality I want.
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jdp23 kylewm what did you think of the vouch discussion in https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-vouch ?
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GWG Event over?
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gRegor` Vouch is over. Next session will have a separate youtube link
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bear he's reseting the stream for the next discussion
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gRegor` http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live
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bear https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-vouch for the notes on the vouch session
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jdp23 it depends what's being projected :)
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@thierrymarianne RT @t: Awesome personal site demos kick off the first #IndieWebCamp Cambridge! Now session scheduling: http://www.youtube.com/ (ttk.me t4Y_1) (twitter.com/_/status/521015861839417344)
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mattl Okay indieweb folks. Its been fun, but I really need to go take a nap and get ready for Europe. Hope to see some of you at MozFest!
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aaronpk_ looks like you found the new livestream
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bear what is the new url?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the new url" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+new+url
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aaronpk_ check http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live for all the URLs. we're on inline reply now
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bret https://manifest.googlevideo.com/api/manifest/hls_variant/pmbypass/yes/ipbits/0/sver/3/ip/2601%3A7%3A1c80%3A576%3A595b%3A6891%3A76e1%3Ac88d/upn/DgNyEhwt7Jk/fexp/907257%2C914004%2C916941%2C923349%2C924637%2C927622%2C930666%2C931983%2C932404%2C934030%2C943911%2C945552%2C946022%2C947209%2C951811%2C952302%2C953801/sparams/gcr%2Cid%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Cmaudio%2
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bret Cplaylist_type%2Cpmbypass%2Csource%2Cexpire/playlist_type/DVR/itag/0/id/TEPhgOF2fiY.0/maudio/1/source/yt_live_broadcast/gcr/us/expire/1413076509/signature/1B5B0950E658939F34E1609AE43819C3964F1B75.9C7F5D5A913F7138C48077BEA6D582C2844F5646/key/yt5/file/index.m3u8
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bret oops
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bear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEPhgOF2fiY
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bret also http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Live for the next sessions
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bret (linked to from https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-cambridge )
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aaronpk_ question for the people on the stream, is it useful to show just the giant screen here or do you want to see the room and our pretty faces too?
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bear at least the head of the speaker
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IWC_Cambridge2 the contrast makes it so you can't really see the screen then
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bret maybe a pan or two, but screen and audio are most important
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bret.io created /2014/Cambridge/indiewebcampscript (+59) "Added etherpad" (view diff)
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carmen http://i.imgur.com/i6dhMq6.png
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aaronpk_ shrewdness seems to have lost my subscriptions
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carmen failed out of both browsers. guess youtube-dl the archives is the answer
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bret.io created /2014/Cambridge/vouch (+60) "Added etherpad" (view diff)
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bret.io created /2014/Cambridge/installknown (+67) "Added etherpad" (view diff)
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@hammerron Watching #indiewebcamp at https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/521018101849399296)
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jdp23 yes that would be cool!
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bret hey all at IWC, help take notes here: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-inline
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bret if you are in an unscheduled break off group, please create a new pad
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kylewm jdp23: I read the notes from vouch, more optimistic now :) I think it'll be a while before anyone automates the vouch-finding part, but maybe that's ok
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jdp23 kylewm agreed
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bret.io created /2014/Cambridge/inline (+105) "Added live links" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /2014/Cambridge/inline (+4) "turned into a list" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /2014/Cambridge/Schedule (+10) "/* Saturday, October 11, 2014 (Brainstorming) */ Fixed 2014 - Cambridge link" (view diff)
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daf here's my webmention+vouch diagram https://imgur.com/jiYShZD
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bret daf++
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Loqi daf has 1 karma
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bret daf: get that into https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-vouch please
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jdp23 daf++
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Loqi daf has 2 karma
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jdp23 very useful!
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bret.io edited /2014/Cambridge/Introductions (+56) "/* Notes */ Added video" (view diff)
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jdp23 i added it to the etherpad
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bret.io edited /2014/Cambridge/installer (+48) "Added video link" (view diff)
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bret jdp23++
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Loqi jdp23 has 4 karma
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bret.io edited /2014/Cambridge/vouch (+48) "Added video link" (view diff)
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jdp23 putting security aside for the moment, i'd be comfortable with a checkbox saying "post on my site and syndicate here" (or even "syndicate back to my site")
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jdp23 if i'm logged in, i'd like to see the checkbox enabled by default; if not, then when i clickon it it gives me the opportunity to log in
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pdurbin just installed Known for the first time, with some assists from benwerd :)
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bret pdurbin++
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Loqi pdurbin has 5 karma
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mlncn pdurbin++
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Loqi pdurbin has 6 karma
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benwerd pdurbin++
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Loqi dude
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bret Loqi: turn off your karma filter on IWC days plz, kthnx
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Loqi dude
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carmen 6-8pm ZINE READINGS by Katie Bennet, Ponybody Violet of ANAlog, Brittany Mitchel of Sweet as the South, J.C., Alex Nall of Teaching Comics, Nicole Mazzeao of Pleasure Pie, Emma Karin Eriksson and Kerri Radley of Deafula
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bret carmen: where at?
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carmen http://www.bostonhassle.com/art/boston-zine-fest-day-1-washington-street-art-center-somerville/
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bret cool
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bret Could there be some kind of standardized posting interface objects?
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bret set of*
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benwerd caseorganic http://assets.withknown.com/releases/known-0.6.4-rc1.zip
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bret i want a stand like Jesse :)
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Loqi gives bret a stand like Jesse
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@benwerd Ported @withknown to PHP 5.3 this afternoon. Needs some testing. Release candidate here: http://assets.withknown.com/releases/known-0.6.4.zip #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/521025205821390849)
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bret I goat run!
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caseorganic bret: bye!
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bret s/goat/gotta
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Loqi bret meant to say: I gotta run!
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bret bye caseorganic
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jdp23 my audio's too muddy to follow, can somebody else take over the etherpad notes?
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ben_thatmust___ i can't i should be heading to the other room for the other session
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ben_thatmust___ since i should be running one
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jdp23 yep. incredibly important
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@kartik_prabhu Missing out on the MIT @indiewebcamp goodness due to no laptop :-( (twitter.com/_/status/521031447818145792)
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GWG What is Making Mobile Easier about?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Making Mobile Easier about" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Making+Mobile+Easier+about
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aaronpk_ we are here now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmASPg7QU0k
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ben_thatmust___ ooor not, no one was over there,
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aaronpk_ obra: i'm experimenting with this now :)
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tantek using this etherpad for mobile session: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-mobilesux
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@caseorganic The Internet of someone else's things. http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/11/the-internet-of-someone-elses-things/ #iot #indieweb (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/10/11/8/iot-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/521037021440012288)
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obra aaronpk_ :)
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@MaximeFF RT @caseorganic: The Internet of someone else's things. http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/11/the-internet-of-someone-elses-things/ #iot #indieweb (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/10/11/8/iot-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/521037780038987778)
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@rarianrakista RT @caseorganic: The Internet of someone else's things. http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/11/the-internet-of-someone-elses-things/ #iot #indieweb (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/10/11/8/iot-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/521037938423902208)
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aaronpk_ obra: weird, it half worked
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aaronpk_ my like button did in fact make a post, but then the browser says "No 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header is present..."
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aaronpk_ but the post request did come through
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KartikPrabhu_ tantek: I'm writing on your etherpad. hope that's ok
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@jsfyfield RT @caseorganic: The Internet of someone else's things. http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/11/the-internet-of-someone-elses-things/ #iot #indieweb (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/10/11/8/iot-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/521038287180279810)
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tantek KartikPrabhu_: please do!
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aaronpk_ obra: I wonder... is there any reason my "like" endpoint shouldn't just say "*" for CORS?
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obra not necessarily.
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aaronpk_ cause then this totally works
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obra not 100% sure
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obra fwiw, my idiotic test is http://eruditorum.org/test.html
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obra that's not throwing CORS issues.
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aaronpk_ open this on one side: http://geobin.io/GyYrZzVnba and this on the other: http://pin13.net/like/
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obra back in a moment. gotta feed the meter
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aaronpk_ OH with a form tag
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aaronpk_ k let me change mine around a bit
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obra :)
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obra kind of evil.
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obra but working
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aaronpk_ oh but wait then it redirects the browser
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aaronpk_ aha http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20480547/prevent-form-redirect-after-submit-without-ajax
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aaronpk_ this is quickly getting ugly
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@coreload "Techno-utopians like to argue that open systems always win, but that simply isn’t true" @caseorganic http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/11/the-internet-of-someone-elses-things/ #iot #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/521040716416688128)
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pdurbin tantek: you mentioned ##friendlyjava but didn't link to the logs. Doing so now per the channel owner's request: http://irclog.greptilian.com/friendlyjava/2014-10-11#i_79970 :)
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aaronpk_ oh wait i did this wrong...
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aaronpk_ obra: ok yeah still can't do ajax post cross site
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obra right.
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obra :/
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aaronpk_ even if the js comes from that site
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obra I flaked
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@html5devconf The web is your API: feeds and actions using HTML5 and webmentions by @benwerd of Known at next #HTML5DevConf http://html5devconf.com/speakers/ben_werdmuller.html (twitter.com/_/status/521042943642456065)
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tantek woohoo benwerd @html5devconf!
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obra aaronpk_: I think you're stuck using an iframe. though one should be able to use an invisible iframe.
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obra the downside is that you can't get a response back.
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aaronpk_ obra: i think we need to get a response back in order to know if the like succeeded
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Loqi [mention] http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/10/11/1/indiewebcamp-cambridge-2014-at-mit-stata-center linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/10/11/1/indiewebcamp-cambridge-2014-at-mit-stata-center linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/posse (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/10/11/1/indiewebcamp-cambridge-2014-at-mit-stata-center linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/10/11/1/indiewebcamp-cambridge-2014-at-mit-stata-center linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events (webmention)
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aaronpk_ obra: so if I add 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *' then it works!
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obra awesome
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bret Woot
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Loqi woot
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bret oh wow, https://ind.ie/pulse/ is absorbing syncthing
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bret were the related all along?
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aaronpk_ i didn't think so
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tantek I've been taking notes here: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indiewebcamp-mobilesux
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bret well, ind.ie isn't shipping code yet, but at least they are working with people who are :)
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aaronpk_ that's one way to ship code
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bret true that
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bret i haven't actually tried sync thing yet, but its come across my radar.
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bret cool looks kind of like git-annex
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bret hopefully the overall performance will be better
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mattl hey benwerd: when you get a sec, can you clone this and make a known.json file and run install.php against it? https://github.com/mattl/indieweb-installer
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aaronpk_ bret: is it not basically bittorrent sync?
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bret aaronpk_: i don't have a grasp of the scope. definitely looks similar, and is open source
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bret aaronpk_: looks very similar to bittorrent
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aaronpk_ ok that's what I thought
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bret you create repos, and connect to other nodes
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bret which is good, I have full faith the bittorrent inc is capable of royally screwing up BTSync someday
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bret that*
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aaronpk_ really? I trust bittorrent inc more than syncthing in this case
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aaronpk_ because bittorrent inc actually has a business model behind btsync
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@kartik_prabhu @dissolve333 Yeah. But I wanted to make things too. Using this time to see how miserable posting from mobile is for me. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/521051239048441856)
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bret aaronpk_: have you ever used utorrent recently?
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bret its like 3 layers of malware darkpatterns just to install
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aaronpk_ that's cause they don't have a business model behind utorrent
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bret their business model for it is selling me Anti virus.... which I don't want
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bret anyway, super lame they should just release it as a utility and monatize other projects
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aaronpk_ maybe they will now that they can actualy charge for btsync
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bret they charge for it?
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aaronpk_ you can buy a cloud server that will keep a copy online for you
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bret oy
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bret have not noticed
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aaronpk_ it costs about the same as running your own AWS instance I believe
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aaronpk_ it's a reasonable approach
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benwerd mattl: I will do that!
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bret aaronpk_: where did you see this?
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pdurbin benwerd: I put my Known/Vagrant hacking here: https://github.com/pdurbin/known-vagrant
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benwerd pdurbin: awesome!
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@fpgil RT @caseorganic: The Internet of someone else's things. http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/11/the-internet-of-someone-elses-things/ #iot #indieweb (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/10/11/8/iot-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/521052388212621312)
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bret pdurbin++
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Loqi pdurbin has 7 karma
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@datakid23 RT @caseorganic: The Internet of someone else's things. http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/11/the-internet-of-someone-elses-things/ #iot #indieweb (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/10/11/8/iot-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/521052806900240384)
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pdurbin benwerd: hilarious. had no idea this existed: http://everything2.com/title/The+Everything2+Podcast (or that you've been on it)
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benwerd pdurbin: Oolong is an IRL friend of mine
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pdurbin I'm a bit addicted to podcasts. I have various lists here: http://podcasts.greptilian.com
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@aaronpk "No no no, you *railed* it!" - @obra to @benwerd after solving the issue in the first 30 seconds. #indiewebcamp (http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/11/4/indiewebcamp) (twitter.com/_/status/521053456245612546)
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pdurbin oh, last e2 podcast episode was over 3 years ago
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bret aaronpk_: you are right, basically the same thing https://discourse.syncthing.net/t/how-is-pulse-different-to-bittorrent-sync/1083/5
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bret where are you guys now?
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aaronpk_ wrapping up
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bret cool
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bret no more video?
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aaronpk_ nope! will resume tomorrow
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pdurbin bret: we wanted to talk about you a bit ;)
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bret lol
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bret cool good day everyone! had fun observing
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pdurbin it's been a fun day
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bret thank you to everyone taking notes and helping the remote participants
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benwerd *Finally* cleaned Known for PHP 5.3. http://assets.withknown.com/releases/known-0.6.4-rc1.zip cc caseorganic
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tantek benwerd - it looks like Known doesn't support putting a user's profile icon as their indiewebcamp.com/icon
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tantek and instead it just uses the (K) icon
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benwerd tantek - it's an option
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tantek but not the default?!?
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benwerd tantek - oh, I've just realized why it may not be working.
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tantek getting lots of "it seems weird that it wouldn't show up by default"
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benwerd nods, and gets out his editor
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benwerd It was, and I've just realized that a change broke it
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benwerd sigh
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benwerd Fixing ;)
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tantek and the default making it launch in a separate process is a bit weird too
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benwerd That one I'm not sure about. Doesn't happen on Android. Any clues about what might be triggering iOS to do that?
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tantek that is - I don't think people expect it to behave that way by default. perhaps remove the <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-capable" content="yes"> ?
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tantek yes - you added it a while ago :)
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tantek when we were experimenting
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tantek remove <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-capable" content="yes"> and <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-status-bar-style" content="black">
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benwerd Oh, got it
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caseorganic benwerd: :) downloading now
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benwerd tantek: thanks; just made that change in code
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benwerd the user icon is thornier but I'm on it
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tantek cool
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pdurbin aaronpk: ok, so this seems to be the thing you're talking about http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions
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erlehmann say, what would be a good structure for a plain text blog?
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erlehmann also, anyone here saving entry ids in files themselves?
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carmen derive ID (URI) from pathname here
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carmen usign relative URIs inside the file which get a baseURI bound at request time
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aaronpk_ hay ppl
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aaronpk_ how about dinner
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erlehmann carmen i have lots of old entries that have an id not containing my host.
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tantek session times are up everyone!
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tantek back to the main room!
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kylewm erlehmann: can you give a little more background information? what's the site you are working on, what are you trying to do?
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erlehmann kylewm http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net
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erlehmann i am currently doing live code-surgery on it
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erlehmann so if something is broken, disregard it
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erlehmann but this, for example, is what i am striving for http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin.atom
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erlehmann each category is a git repository
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carmen i'm trying to make money. which means i have no part in even bringing it up in here. except making money without signing NDAs or working on anything centralized, proprietary or walled-gardenlike. or on bloatware (Mozilla) or licenses i disagree with (FSF/GPL - prefer UNLICENSE/MIT)
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erlehmann kylewm hipster news 2 generates atom entries for each file. those are formated using xslt
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erlehmann kylewm i want a very simple file backend where the atom ids (and possibly other metadata) are stored inside the files. MIME would fit the bill, but … implementation complexity.
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Loqi gives erlehmann a very simple file backend where the atom ids
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erlehmann i want a pony?
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aaronpk_ you might get a pony
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Loqi gives erlehmann a pony
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aaronpk_ oh there it is!
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erlehmann indeed's
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aaronpk_ erlehmann: https://twitter.com/cybersanta
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aaronpk_ that's approximately the same code :)
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erlehmann so back to http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin.atom
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@PeterMandalh RT @caseorganic: The Internet of someone else's things. http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/11/the-internet-of-someone-elses-things/ #iot #indieweb (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/10/11/8/iot-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/521062489908576256)
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kylewm erlehmann: why does carmen's suggestion to use the ID as the path not work?
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/Cambridge/Schedule (-11) "update lunch" (view diff)
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erlehmann kylewm because i already have ids. i want to store them, not generate them.
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erlehmann kylewm also content sometimes moves around.
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kylewm oh sure, i think i get it
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kylewm well, #microformats would suggest store them in a u-uid property
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erlehmann the heavy handed approach would be to have each entry be a MIME message or xml file or whatever
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erlehmann ah, interesting. documentation?
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pdurbin aaronpk: cool, you've documented window.navigator.registerProtocolHandler('web+action', 'https://aaronparecki.com/config.html?handler=%s', 'Aaron Parecki'); at http://indiewebcamp.com/indie-config
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kylewm erlehmann: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#Properties
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kylewm there are also people using a block of YAML or JSON frontmatter at the top of each file
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erlehmann hmm.
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erlehmann i like assange's self destructing paper http://web.archive.org/web/20071020051936/http://iq.org/#Selfdestructingpaper
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@philipdurbin demo'ed some stuff on http://greptilian.com this morning at #indiewebcamp https://www.youtube.com/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-11 (twitter.com/_/status/521064958520729600)
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@CharlesKriete RT @caseorganic: The Internet of someone else's things. http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/11/the-internet-of-someone-elses-things/ #iot #indieweb (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/10/11/8/iot-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/521065852180119552)
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shaners erlehmann please add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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shaners carmen please add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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erlehmann shaners how do i log in?
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erlehmann there is no register
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erlehmann and no anonymous edit
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shaners erlehmann what is your personal website?
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erlehmann shaners http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net
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erlehmann shaners and?
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shaners is typing
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shaners erlehmann the wiki uses indieauth.com to handle login. instead of username/password, indieauth uses your personal website's domain as the "username" and then farms out to one of several third party sites for the password auth part.
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shaners ie, i login to the wiki by using my twitter or github credentials (via oauth)
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shaners so.
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erlehmann shaners so i have to create a twitter account to log in to the wiki? very indie!
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shaners the way you enable that on your personal site is to add some links to twitter, github, etc with `rel="me"` on your site.
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erlehmann > implying implications
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erlehmann shaners and the easy way to log in?
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shaners that is the only way to log in
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shaners do you have any accounts on any social media-y sites?
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erlehmann okcupid!
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erlehmann i find the trade-off useful for finding dates.
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shaners github, twitter, google, app.net
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shaners you can also use sms or persona (more indie, if you prefer)
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erlehmann sms?
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erlehmann sms sounds simple. elaborate?
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shaners erlehmann: https://indieauth.com/setup
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shaners still requires adding a link on your homepage
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erlehmann yeah, but i *have* a phone number
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erlehmann shaners the scheme is tel btw
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erlehmann isn't it?
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shaners talk to aaronpk_ aaronpk about that some other time
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shaners the ponit of all of this is that A: your domain/url/website is your identity
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erlehmann yeah, it is. but it seems i need some other identity.
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shaners 2: the indiewebcamp wiki doesn't want to or get to have access to your password
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shaners indieauth + some other site is a transitional strategy that allows users (me and you) to login to site using our domains as identity (using rel-me links) for now, instead of everyone havign to roll their own auth server.
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shaners you're welcoem to do that yourself if you want. or run an indieauth server on your domain. it's open source.
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erlehmann oh lel
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shaners https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth
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KartikPrabhu_ regarding how indie it is, one could run their own authorization server.
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KartikPrabhu_ doh shaners already said that
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shaners i ask you (and carmen) to do this because I often see you (and carmen) in here, but i have no clue who you are. and when i look on the wiki, you're not listed.
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shaners carmen: what is your personal website? please add yourself to /irc-people.
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erlehmann i do not want to sound off-putting, but the “let me give you my email and send me a link with a login token” strategy that almost everyone else uses somehow has more appeal to me
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erlehmann shaners is there a way to do that without getting a twitter account in return?
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shaners again, sms or persona
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shaners or a github account. do you have some aversion to github?
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erlehmann why not email?
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KartikPrabhu_ erlehmann: the whole point is to have some prof of work on your own site. having an email does not do that
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erlehmann how does sms do that?
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erlehmann github is trying to embrace, extend, extinguish open standards.
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erlehmann https://education.github.com/
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erlehmann > stop emailing code
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shaners erlehmann: are you oppossed to creating a github account?
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KartikPrabhu_ Are you proposing that you will link to your email from your homepage?
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erlehmann > The days of sharing source code by email and thumb drives are long gone. Using GitHub […]
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erlehmann KartikPrabhu_ yes!
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KartikPrabhu_ sharing code via email is horrendous imo
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shaners erlehmann erlehmann : stay focused.
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shaners i'm trying to get you more plugged in with the indieweb community that you seem to want to particpate in.
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erlehmann shaners lets say since github suspended my account in the middle of work and took with it all the tickets for a project, i am somewhat hostile.
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KartikPrabhu_ erlehmann: sure maybe suggest to aaronpk for email as login
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shaners why did they suspend your account?
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erlehmann dunno lel
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shaners i doubt that
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erlehmann no really
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erlehmann they have automated systems
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erlehmann and cannot tell me what did it
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erlehmann also they broke a perfectly working workflow
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shaners did you take it up with them? contact support? i know several people there. they don't just delete accounts willy nilly.
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shaners ok. so you're focused on login by email. are you opposed to using Persona?
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erlehmann yes, i did and they did respond and so on and so on. but that is EXACTLY the thing that i do not want to have again.
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erlehmann i do not want to not be able to login because github bots run amok
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erlehmann whatever persona does. let me read up on at.
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erlehmann it
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shaners or you can use sms, like i suggested above
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erlehmann lel https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/what-is-persona-and-how-does-it-work#w_how-do-i-create-an-account
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erlehmann > Go to login.persona.org, click the Sign in button and a pop-up window will appear.
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erlehmann no login button, lel https://login.persona.org/
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shaners erlehmann: again, how about sms ?
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erlehmann shaners sounds good enough. but then, do i *have* to provide an identity here?
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erlehmann will i get kicked if i don't make myself known on the wiki?
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KartikPrabhu_ no
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shaners you've already told me your domain, how is this anymore than that?
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erlehmann good, then i'll just not do it and no longer think about hideously complex scripts.
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KartikPrabhu_ But also no one has to take you seriously if you are not implementing things ;-)
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erlehmann shaners cognitive load. as long as it takes more energy to comment on a blog or edit wikipedia or click on a link in an email, i think i won't do it.
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erlehmann most websites have email login. i enter my email, click on ”žforgot password“ and get a login link.
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shaners well, we're doing something different here.
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erlehmann i use it almost exclusively
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shaners we're trying to build a better web, a better future.
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erlehmann yeah, something very complex. why not allow anonymous editing?
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shaners because trolls and spam
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KartikPrabhu_ I have found email to be pretty bad identification
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shaners we've been down that route before
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erlehmann shaners i come from imageboard culture. trolls and spam can certainly be contained, quarantined.
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KartikPrabhu_ proof of work again
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shaners and for better or for worse the IWC wiki: A: doesn't allow anon edits and 2: requires a rel-me link on your personal website (via indieauth.com)
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erlehmann the issue with proof of work is that it assumes legitimate users will expend more energy than abusive ones
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KartikPrabhu_ if you don't do things on your website, then your anonymous edits are more likely philosophy
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erlehmann i moderate on an imageboard i shall not name and i found that consistently the abusers spend *more* energy to spam
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erlehmann than legitimate users
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KartikPrabhu_ But then we can ban abusive domains
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erlehmann who just don't post if they do not manage to use the captcha and so on
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shaners well, over here, we've found that requiring personal domain + rel-me for login keeps the trolls and spam to *almost* zero
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KartikPrabhu_ I would be surprised if spammers spent the effort to make new domains add indieauth support just to edit the wiki
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erlehmann if i remember correctly, kuro5hin issued a 5$ price for an account. almost only trolls were willing to pay it after they were banned.
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KartikPrabhu_ because money is cheap. self dog fooding isn't
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erlehmann KartikPrabhu_ i would be surprised if i do any kind of effort that is more than i need to edit wikipedia or comment on a blog post to edit the wiki.
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KartikPrabhu_ Cool. you don't have to do anything
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shaners erlehmann: why do you hang out in this channel?
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erlehmann shaners to get information about people who create their own web pages that do not rely on copious amounts of third party soon-to-be-broken API buggery.
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shaners erlehmann: is this your github account? https://github.com/erlehmann
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erlehmann and see what software they create
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KartikPrabhu_ do only observing?
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erlehmann shaners indeed. and look how i do not publish to it anymore.
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shaners so, were you lying before when you said that github suspended your account?
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shaners it doesn't look very suspended to me
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erlehmann shaners they did restore it. they also were unwilling to issue permanent redirects to my home page.
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shaners redirects from what?
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erlehmann since code on the github account is mentioned in at least two papers i think that suffices.
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erlehmann redirects from projects to new urls for those projects on my server.
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shaners they don't do that. no silo does.
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KartikPrabhu_ even if you are a published author of papers
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shaners erlehmann: is this your website? http://blog.dieweltistgarnichtso.net
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erlehmann i am not even the author in one case
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erlehmann shaners one of them
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erlehmann i will not connect anything to github. using it for login infrastructure only invites “your account was suspended”
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KartikPrabhu_ man I should ask for that, I have at least 5 papers published :-P
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shaners is your name Nils Dagsson Moskopp?
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erlehmann i only expend energy if i feel secure that no third party will break it
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erlehmann shaners indeed
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erlehmann allowing github to control my edits to the indieweb wiki would be a boneheaded move i think
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erlehmann as long as a third party i have no power over can easily sabotage my stuff, i think it is a bad solution
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KartikPrabhu_ do you wish to edit and contribute to the wiki? or only observer here?
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shaners KartikPrabhu_ I asked erlehmann (and carmen) to add themselves to /irc-people
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erlehmann KartikPrabhu_ i am content with contributing to my own pake and observing.
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erlehmann s/pake/site/g
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Loqi erlehmann meant to say: KartikPrabhu_ i am content with contributing to my own site and observing.
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KartikPrabhu_ Cool then
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shaners erlehmann: GH would not control your edits. If they ever "suspend your account" again, you can use a different provider for auth. inclduing, AGAIN, SMS.
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shaners s/inclduing/including/
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Loqi shaners meant to say: erlehmann: GH would not control your edits. If they ever "suspend your account" again, you can use a different provider for auth. including, AGAIN, SMS.
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erlehmann shaners they misused my trust twice (the first time was when they were lying about something that i even sent them a patch for not being able to do it without js, even though the site source code showed they did go out of their way to break a form control). i will not give them a chance to do it again.
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erlehmann fool me twice, etc. pp.
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erlehmann shaners http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/github-profile-deletion.html
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erlehmann i did not notice at first even
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erlehmann because they lied to other users that my repositories where not there
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erlehmann but not to me
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KartikPrabhu_ erlehmann: cool. might i then suggest that you document your own site work on your own site.
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erlehmann KartikPrabhu_ i actually do!
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KartikPrabhu_ very nice.
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jdp23 i do think that the indieweb's obsession with "you must log in with your domain" is very offputting to a lot of people
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erlehmann jdp23 if it was only the domain. “you must give third parties the ability to break your assumptions” is the problem for me.
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KartikPrabhu_ jdp23 it is the self dog fooding prof of work
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KartikPrabhu_ also use sms, run your own auth server, ask for email support, no need for third parties
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jdp23 i understnd. and, it gives the impression of being elitist. "you have to prove your work in order to participate in this community" is offputting
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erlehmann what jdp23 says
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KartikPrabhu_ ok. I don't see it as unreasonable, even if I'm not a developer
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KartikPrabhu_ I'm very off put by actual developers complaining about developing
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jdp23 i said "a lot of people", not everybody :)
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shaners jdp23 the reason we care optimize for people that are building their own website is from our experience with other efforts in the past that was distracted by a *lot* of talk by people talking a big game, but never actually building anything. it was all academic / hypothetical / pie in the sky. eg, microformats, federated web summit, rdf, xml*, html/css standards, etc
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erlehmann shaners i *do* stuff
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shaners i know you do.
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erlehmann look at source of http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin.atom
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shaners i saw your website
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shaners i'm not saying you don't
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erlehmann hipster news 2 is a static blog engine that converts git repositories to feeds
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erlehmann i use it for over a year
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erlehmann now
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shaners erlehmann: i know that you build stuff. i'm not saying you don't.
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KartikPrabhu_ previous post on something similar devs were comparing about https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/creator
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KartikPrabhu_ complaining
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shaners i'm saying that the "login with your domain" tactic filters out people who won't build anything and will just talk.
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jdp23 shaners i understand. i'm just saying that in my experience, it also alienates people who would otherwise have a lot to contribute.
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KartikPrabhu_ contribute without having own domain?
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shaners maybe so. everything is trade offs. this is the trade off that has been chosen for the iwc wiki.
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jdp23 i didn't say they don't have their domain
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shaners a wiki about building websites
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KartikPrabhu_ just don't want to login with it?
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erlehmann just don't want to login with commercial crapware
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shaners erlehmann: then use SMS
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shaners how many times have i suggested that now?
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KartikPrabhu_ the commercial point is moot as I pointed out
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erlehmann the third-party point is not moot
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kylewm you can also log in with PGP
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erlehmann shaners if you want to exclude people who are annoyed by overly complex technology, by all means use.
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KartikPrabhu_ it is. run your own auth server
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erlehmann kylewm that is something.
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snarfed kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 64 karma
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jdp23 jsut don't want to make the changes to enable the log in (the links to make indieauth happening) or run their own auth server (heck even i don't want to do that) or share their phone # etc
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erlehmann kylewm i have a pgp key. what do i need to sign?
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shaners erlehmann go to indieauth.com and read something
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KartikPrabhu_ jdp23 devs don't want to dev!
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kylewm erlehmann: looking for the documentation, one sec
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KartikPrabhu_ anyway contribute by writing articles on your a
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shaners https://indieauth.com/gpg
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erlehmann i have it https://indieauth.com/gpg
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KartikPrabhu_ site
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jdp23 KartikPrabhu first of all they're not all devs. second of all even the ones who are don't necessarily want to do that specific dev
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erlehmann i still find it obnoxious, but no more than a captcha
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kylewm https://indieauth.com/gpg
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shaners what is captcha?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "captcha" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=captcha
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kylewm haha, third!
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KartikPrabhu_ jdp23 well if don't want to do it, then fine
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jdp23 right
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snarfed do we send people to #indiechat for tech politics conversations yet?
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snarfed if not, i vote we start :P
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KartikPrabhu_ me is just lolling at these objections
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jdp23 hmm, i wasn't seeing it as a tech politics conversation. i was seeing it as feedback from somebody who's having a hard time getting any of my friends interested enough in the community to participate
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erlehmann does anyone think it is a bad idea to have my articles as html files?
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snarfed jdp23: oh! sorry, i meant the "github and etc co's are evil" conversation, the "should you need a domain to sign in"
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jdp23 snarfed oh ok :)
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shaners erlehmann please add yourself to /irc-people
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jdp23 and, i'm not trying to revisit the decision. i understand why that's the tradeoff
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erlehmann shaners see, if you want that so much, you can do it yourself. you have all the data.
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snarfed erlehmann: re html, actually the reverse, you're among friends for making that call. see http://indiewebcamp.com/databases-antipattern
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KartikPrabhu_ and his incredulous snark backs off slowly
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shaners bret what're you working on these days?
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