#indieweb 2017-01-27

2017-01-27 UTC
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bear (which is immediately what I fear when I hear/read "CMS")
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tantek just try to get equivalent functionality running for starters, if that's realy the path you want to take
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bear yea, take advantage of nginx to carve out routes to your new code
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bear so you are evolving the changes
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[jgarber] Many of the pieces are there (see: https://github.com/FrancisCMS/FrancisCMS) just in a form different from what I think would be most useful moving forward.
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bear k, then work up your itch list and write it down; then sort it by fun or usefulness
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bear start at the top and work your way down
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bear and don't fret if you add/adjust items :)
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[jgarber] On it! :smile:
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bear by working thru the list of features you *want* and not the list of features that FrancisCMS has, you will avoid bias in deciding on what to work on
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bear people get trapped by the thought they have to implement everything from an old system
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aaronpk the best thing I did for my rewrite was deciding to cut a bunch of features before launch
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bear aaronpk - I think your rewrite/launch is an edge case compared to others
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tantek in fact, *only* bother with the features that your *data* depends on
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tantek ignore *everything* else
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tantek so you can export / import into new system ASAP and then start iterating again
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bear because you had such a much longer timeframe that you had tech debt accumulate
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bear [jgarber] - yea, that's a nuance that tantek is pointing out I didn't make clear
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bear the purpose of the code is to present your data
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bear if you don't have or need the data, then don't write the code
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tantek I'm finding a challenge with my 2017-01-01 commitment of owning all my RSVPs
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tantek to public events
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tantek there are some "public" events that are nonetheless not widely advertised / distributed
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tantek and there is a non-trivial chance that by my posting my RSVP, it may cause more attention to the event than the organizer(s) would prefer, or may drastically alter the kind of crowd that shows up (followers vs folks already having seen the event)
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tantek I'm not sure how to publicly RSVP without that problem
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snarfed sounds like you need private posts
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tantek snarfed: except then Bridgy Publish wouldn't work to POSSE the RSVP to FB ;)
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snarfed manual :P
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tantek I'm thinking more like this may be a use-case for a public RSVP post which I selectively *not* POSSE to Twitter, and perhaps even omit from my home page feed.
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tantek In that case the only places my RSVP will show up will be: on its permalink, on the event (on FB), and *possibly* in the "Events" box in the bottom right of my home page
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tantek now to reflect on whether that should be a single toggle, or more than one toggle
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GWG snarfed: We live in the future. I can turn my lights on with my voice. I don't want manual.
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tantek what do others call that feature of optional syndication rather than automatic syndication?
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GWG tantek: A setting?
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tantek lol. that's like saying "a checkbox"?
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tantek what's it called in Quill?
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GWG tantek: It is called syndicate-to?
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GWG It's a property
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tantek but it has a UI - what's the UI feature called?
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tantek does anyone have a setting for optionally omitting a post from their feed? either home page, or feed file etc.?
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snarfed wordpress calls them pages instead of posts. examples: https://snarfed.org/archive . one noticeable difference is that their permalinks generally don't have dates.
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Archives
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tantek snarfed, that seems like a different feature
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tantek what is a page?
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Loqi page is short for webpage on the IndieWeb, and can by default be marked up with h-entry (like body class=h-entry) for link-preview purposes unless the page serves a more specific purpose like a homepage or an event https://indieweb.org/page
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tantek hmm
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snarfed eh, semantics
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tantek what is a Facebook Page
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Loqi Facebook Page is a form of identity on Facebook that has its own profile like other identities, and a set of administrators who can take action on Facebook as the identity of that Facebook Page https://indieweb.org/Facebook_Page
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tantek page << [[Facebook Page]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[Facebook Page]]" to the "See Also" section of /page
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tantek what is a group?
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Loqi group in the context of the indieweb (also "indie group" or "indie groups") is a place where people can deliberately share content with each other, not necessarily on their own domain (though likely copied from via webmention etc.) https://indieweb.org/group
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KevinMarks I don't have a setting for omitting a post, but I do sometimes don't add it to the index.html
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KevinMarks And sometimes I forget to
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KartikPrabhu I do syndication manually so I just don't syndicate!
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 29 minutes ago: can you tell if Feedly supports any IndieWeb building blocks? Like do they support subscribing to an h-feed? Or consuming WebSub notifications?
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 15 minutes ago: I added some more positive stub sections to /Feedly like Features, IndieWeb Examples, IndieWeb Friendly - could you take a look and expand? Thanks much!
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KevinMarks I do drafts by not adding to the feed too, though I suppose they are in github
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KartikPrabhu I do drafts by futuring my posts and it doesn't appear in the feed
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chrisaldrich This is quirky, I saw a few posts from acegiak recently about WordPress, but don't see them on https://indieweb.org/irc/2017-01-20#bottom, yet there they are as plain as day on Slack.... is the bridge not working properly?
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GWG I haven't been in the slack room in a while
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tantek chrisaldrich, check the permalink date?
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[chrisaldrich] My main computer with IRC is on the skids this week, so I'm back to web interfaces and just reinstalled slack on my secondary computer.
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[chrisaldrich] https://indiewebcamp.slack.com/archives/indieweb/p1485479151011835 There were some posts about an hour ago when you were talking about pages/Facebook pages
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tantek odd - I didn't see them here nor in https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-01-26 (<-- note the date)
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[chrisaldrich] And there's ashton now... visible in Slack, but apparently a ghost on all the other things... Hope you didn't think we were all ignoring you!
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[chrisaldrich] Yet, here I am in slack and perfectly visible and porting across??? hrmmm
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[chrisaldrich] Though since you're here ashton, I had been meaning to tip you off on PressForward, a WordPress plugin which is essentially a built in RSS Feed reader not too dissimilar to WhisperFollow, though with a larger group of devs behind it. Thought you might find it interesting.
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[chrisaldrich] It was meant for journalists and academics in some sense, so it isn't branded as an RSS reader, but it's got a humongous amount of functionality built into it in interesting ways. If only it had the webactions/indieweb goodness of WhisperFollow, it would be nearly perfect.
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[chrisaldrich] I've got it on a shared host at the moment, and it seems to be doing fairly well. They don't recommend doing over 200-30 feeds as it can slow things down on shared hosting, but who can read that many feeds anyway?
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[chrisaldrich] for the social side, one might expect several hundred, but they seem to have built it for following things like the NYTimes or Feeds with hundreds of items per day instead of just a few.
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[chrisaldrich] Personally I'm worried about the storage overhead with that many feeds. And at the moment there's a bug that's preventing things from being flushed out of the database, though I suspect they'll have it fixed soon. I've also found one or two other quirks because I'm using it in an off-label manner which I suspect most of their install base isn't.
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tantek this is very odd seeing only half the conversation!
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4mZc98rY.jpg
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tantek aaronpk: !
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[chrisaldrich] For ages, everyone thought acegiak was in hiding, working too hard, now we know the true lonely story....
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[chrisaldrich] I hadn't been on slack in a while, but the inline photos are quite nice...
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GWG I'm tempted to load up my Slack client. I miss acegiak.
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Loqi misses acegiak. too
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tantek seriously, aaronpk, how are we missing acegiak over here in IRC? what's going on with the bridge?
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aaronpk Huh that's weird
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aaronpk oh also regarding posts and things, I don't have a name for it, but I can choose per post whether to make it appear on my home page or any of the other lists of posts
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tantek a-ha! I knew someone had implemented it
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tantek checks create
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tantek aaronpk: is this current p3k or old? https://indieweb.org/create#p3k_note (if old, still work keeping, just in a historical section)
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tantek aw: [x] Post to App.Net
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tantek pours one out
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-27.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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tantek nice. lots of new pages
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aaronpk oh i didn't realize that was on /create
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aaronpk i moved all the other old stuff to https://indieweb.org/p3k-v1
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tantek is there a new screenshot somewhere?
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aaronpk wow 2012 feels so long ago
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aaronpk there is no creation UI in new p3k
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tantek sigh
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tantek where you "can choose per post whether to make it appear on my home page or any of the other lists of posts"
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aaronpk sigh?
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tantek I didn't say in p3k per se
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tantek I meant more in what you do
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tantek regardless of tool
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aaronpk ohh. sorry, major context switch from when i type that at 18:58 til now. (I just biked home from a party.)
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tantek new screenshot of what UI you are using now
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tantek oh hah
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aaronpk it's in Quill now
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aaronpk this is what my syndication options look like now https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-01-26-19-56-52.png
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aaronpk i don't have a UI for selecting per post whether they show up on my home page etc
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aaronpk but it's in the post's storage file
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aaronpk e.g. https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2017-01-26-19-57-43.png this means the post will appear on aaronparecki.com/ and aaronparecki.com/recipes
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aaronpk also when I log in to a micropub app, i can choose whether that app can create posts that get automatically sorted into my different feeds or are restricted to particular feeds
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@cicichirinos "The biggest obstacle for WordPress customers is making it convenient to join the IndieWeb." https://wptavern.com/micro-blog-project-surges-past-65k-on-kickstarter-gains-backing-from-dreamhost (twitter.com/_/status/824839168480014336)
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GWG Odd how many links in that article on WP Tavern start with me trying to get Webmention support in Core.
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KevinMarks_ Well, that's good. Applies a bit of pressure
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KevinMarks_ Reading that, Safe Replies could be based on /vouch
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KevinMarks_ The challenge with vouch is always maintaining the whitelist, and micro.blog has a follow list
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aaronpk What is safe replies
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "safe replies" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KevinMarks_ safe replies is a proposed feature for [[micro.blog]] to allow @ mentions but with abuse filtering of some kind
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Loqi ok
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KevinMarks_ safe replies << https://twitter.com/manton2/status/821084145782759425
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Loqi ok, I added "https://twitter.com/manton2/status/821084145782759425" to the "See Also" section of /safe replies
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@manton2 The premise of the stretch goal: Twitter lost control of the platform because they planned for hate/harassment 10 years late. Start earlier. (twitter.com/_/status/821084145782759425)
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KevinMarks_ safe replies << https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/manton/indie-microblogging-owning-your-short-form-writing/posts/1785295
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/manton/indie-microblogging-owning-your-short-form-writing/posts/1785295" to the "See Also" section of /safe replies
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KevinMarks_ safe replies << [[vouch]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[vouch]]" to the "See Also" section of /safe replies
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GWG I have to see if pfefferle can release the update to the Webmentions plugin. I wonder if this can be capitalized on.
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acegiak ok, I'm in weechat so you folks can actually see me when I talk
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acegiak hi
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acegiak holy crap
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KartikPrabhu hello acegiak
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acegiak I pulled pfefferle's branch of semantic linkbacks and it automerged
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acegiak hi KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu seems you were missed here, some problem with your IRC/slack bridge
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KevinMarks hi acegiak
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acegiak KartikPrabhu: yeah, that's why I booted up weechat
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acegiak Hi KevinMarks
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KevinMarks hm. hosted Known has an old version of fragmention in, and I'm trying to replace it with a fixed one
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KevinMarks which is hard, as fragmention checks to see if a version has already added 'fragmention' to location
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KevinMarks and when I'm tetsing it, I get the new behaviour when logged in but not in incognito mode
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KevinMarks and now I just hosed the site and can'tedi ti . LOL
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KartikPrabhu maybe file a pullr equest to Known to update this
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acegiak ls
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KevinMarks my 100days of indieweb today is breaking my site
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KartikPrabhu that is good coz tomorrow can be "fixed it"
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KevinMarks I can probably still publish to my site
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KevinMarks and read the feed and amp versions
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KevinMarks but the default version is broken by my typo
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KevinMarks hm, mobilepub is failing
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@kevinmarks Day 4: Broke my Known site #100daysOfIndieWeb http://www.kevinmarks.com/day4-broke-known.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/824887770061557760)
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KevinMarks_ Known issues filed.
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tantek whoa: "Because known includes this header prefix in the editing pages too, I can't undo this mistake. "
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tantek Interesting vulnerability
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tantek indicates a need for a zero-JS (noJS?) minimal site editing UI
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KevinMarks I can see the editing pages by using the ?_t=amp suffix, but they are bootstrap and so don't work
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KevinMarks and the auth and micropub result pages seem to have a problem too
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KevinMarks so I guess my Day 4 is QA
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tantek sounds like you may have to ssh in and vi your header prefix file
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KevinMarks except it's hosted known, so Ben will have to
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KevinMarks and he's on NYC time and so is asleep
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tantek that's actually quite the design challenge. an editing UI with a base level of functionality that itself is not editable, in order to guarantee a minimum level of editability that cannot be itself broken by editing.
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tantek going to sleep on it
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@KillianKemps http://Micro.blog's Kickstarter, following the IndieWeb movement, has been backed by @DreamHost https://wptavern.com/micro-blog-project-surges-past-65k-on-kickstarter-gains-backing-from-dreamhost #OpenSource (twitter.com/_/status/824891470142283777)
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@KillianKemps "Flask-IndieAuth - A Python Library for Micropub Servers" https://martymcgui.re/2017/01/26/104730/ #OpenSource #IndieWeb #Python (twitter.com/_/status/824892827158999040)
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petermolnar re KevinMarks: load the editor page, edit the HTML on the fly in Firefox dev tools, edit the template, fix done
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KevinMarks_ Ooh
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KevinMarks_ I had to do it in chrome, and copy code from head to body, but now it works
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@kevinmarks Day 4: Broke my Known site #100daysOfIndieWeb: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/day-4-broke-my-known-site-100daysofindieweb (twitter.com/_/status/824905875550638083)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Did I break micropub too? #Indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-01-27 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/did-i-break-micropub-too-indieweb
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KevinMarks So it's inkstone that's confused?
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petermolnar KevinMarks don't forget micropub looks for the micropub endpoint in your headers
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petermolnar if it can't find it, it means there is no endpoint
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petermolnar and it's easy not to find it when your whole site it inside a script ;)
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KevinMarks1 It already had a token so should have just hit the endpoint
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acegiak does webmentions for wordpress require wp-api plugin?
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petermolnar not yes, as far as I understand, but I might be mistaken, GWG?
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petermolnar not yet
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jeremycherfas Good morning
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Loqi jeremycherfas: chrisaldrich left you a message 17 hours, 30 minutes ago: this link (and references) might help you as an example in part of your recent quest to wikify yourself: https://indieweb.org/Template:chrisaldrich
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jeremycherfas @chrisaldrich Thanks for the guidance.
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acegiak hmm. looks like the issue I'm having is the rest_api_init hook not working
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@acegiak Fiddling around with indieweb stuff I think I got salmentions working and then broke my webmentions outright. Go… - http://acegiak.net/2017/01/27/28617/ (twitter.com/_/status/824939829523738627)
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GWG WP API is not required for Webmentions
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acegiak GWG: https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/blob/master/includes/class-webmention-receiver.php#L13
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acegiak having an older version of WP-API installed for whisperfollow seems to break the current version of webmention
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GWG acegiak, the api infrastructure has been in core for a few versions now
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acegiak yes, and webmentions relies on it
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acegiak so I can't ahve an older version installed for whisperfollow
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acegiak so I need to update whisperfollow
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acegiak which is fine
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GWG acegiak, oh... that might be an issue, yes
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acegiak yeah. I updated to the latest version of webmentions and suddenly it wasn't working (because of the older version of wp-api) and I was just trying to pinpoint hte issue
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GWG The idea was to take advantage of the built in code
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acegiak yeah, is good plan
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GWG acegiak, core development now has the REST API as a focus area. So hooking into it will only take advantage.
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GWG The new Webmentions design allows for a pretty permalink. It returns a Webmention form if probed and includes the option to add the form to any page.
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GWG The Semantic Linkbacks changes paired with it finally make it so the remote source is only retrieved once instead of 2-3 times.
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GWG Semantic Linkbacks now pre processes Microformats instead of post processing them.
jcgregorio[m], plindner, prtksxna, jaduncan[m], SpEcHiDe, M-hotzeplotz, JulianFoad[m], TheGillies, Guest112299[m], Guest86807[m], crasch[m] and stonichen[m] joined the channel
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GWG A lot of stuff on my wish list
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acegiak GWG: rad
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acegiak could someone please send me a person tag webmention?
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acegiak GWG: I don't know if you saw before, I merged the salmentions code with pfefferle's updates
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acegiak still need to go through and test to see if it all works though
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acegiak Async webmention handling doesn't seem to be working for me at the moment
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GWG acegiak, it wouldn't. The hook to enable it would require a second plugin
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GWG I put it in so async could be developed separately and merged in later if the implementation worked.
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GWG I did build a basic asynchronous process, but it was not up to par to go into the plugin itself, by even my standards
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acegiak I think it currently defaults to async?
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acegiak define( 'WEBMENTION_PROCESS_TYPE', 'async' ); here?
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GWG It defaults to sync
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acegiak didn't for me?
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GWG It is returning a 202 or a 200?
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GWG I will have a look. I know pfefferle committed some changes around those lines a while back. Just change to sync if it isn't working
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@MaoViator Il web era open, indipendente ma interconnesso. #indieweb https://www.dreamsworld.it/emanuele/2017-01-26/il-web-era-open-indipendente-ma-interconnesso/ @pixel8383 (twitter.com/_/status/824952034717757440)
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GWG I will try some tests when I get home
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acegiak well webmentions are working when I send them to myself manually now
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acegiak so that's better than before
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acegiak also need to run some tests of salmentions with someone
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GWG acegiak, what did you do to get them working?
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acegiak GWG: Salmentions? or Webmentions?
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acegiak webmentions started working once I changed the default to sync from async
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acegiak salmentions I've merged in my old code and fixed any obvious syntax issues but haven't properly tested yet
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GWG acegiak, odd that. It should be sync by default
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acegiak Dunno
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acegiak I had a lot of weird behaviour because of the issue with wp-api but that shouldn't be related
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GWG I opened an issue, I may do a PR tonight
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GWG acegiak, how is Post Kinds working for you?
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GWG It is next on my bugfix and refresh tour.
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@MrSimonWood @DonnaLanclos @Jisc My interpretation (hope?) is it’s much more broad - embracing the #indieweb! #codesign17 (twitter.com/_/status/824961189973221378)
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acegiak GWG: https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/pull/115
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acegiak the version of post kinds that I'm currently running is working just fine for me but I'm not sure that's the latest yet
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acegiak I'll test that out once I've confirmed that I've got salmentions working again
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acegiak and hopefully working for person tags this time
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acegiak though I can see a problem already with the processing of person tags and salmentions because the generic person tag url is going to munge multiple threads together
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acegiak need to think about that some more
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acegiak anyway it's nearly midnight and I have to be up early, bright eyed and bushy tailed tomorrow for my 1 year HRT anniversary picnic!
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acegiak chat later!
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acegiak night!
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GWG Happy anniversary
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GWG Whatever HRT is...not recognizing the acronym
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@TerminalPixel Day 024 of #100DaysOfCode: My #indieweb #chatbot now has a little intro message to get you started https://postrchildbot.tpxl.io/ (twitter.com/_/status/824992555322527744)
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aaronpk i need some sort of UI for checking whether @-names exist when I'm writing a post
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: there seems to be a jquery thing to do thi https://jqueryui.com/autocomplete/
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aaronpk yeah, that's part of it. but also i need to like check whether an @-name that i haven't mentioned before exists. i just accidentally tweeted at the wrong account this morning
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KartikPrabhu the micropub endpoint could return a list of @-names from the server
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aaronpk yep that's fine for my nicknames cache. but i need it also for people *not* in the nicknames cache
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KartikPrabhu oh
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ben_thatmustbeme basically need a preview window of twitter at that user name to make sure its the correct person too
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aaronpk yeah, like their little hover cards
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ben_thatmustbeme or on the back-end just have it look up any @names never mentioned, parse the card, and return that as a "new person"
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@manton2 Excellent follow-up article at WPTavern on Kickstarter progress, IndieWeb, ADN, and DreamHost. Lots of good quotes. https://wptavern.com/micro-blog-project-surges-past-65k-on-kickstarter-gains-backing-from-dreamhost (twitter.com/_/status/825011642605920256)
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voxpelli aaronpk: looked into my bookmarks and found: https://github.com/zurb/tribute Perhaps something to start with
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KartikPrabhu voxpelli: that does look interesting
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@keithjgrant @bradwestfall I love that my IndieWeb site pulled in his craptastic response https://twitter.com/keithjgrant/status/825015123903287300/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/825015123903287300)
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petermolnar aaronpk it could be pushed the same way tags could be
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petermolnar and autocomplete
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gRegorLove Good morning, indieweb
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dgold voxpelli Hi there Pelle -- just wanted to send you my thanks for your webmention herokuapp and your micropub-jekyll framework
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dgold voxpelli++
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Loqi voxpelli has 87 karma in this channel (95 overall)
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[keithjgrant] So, telegraph is only pulling in links from my page’s header... an h-card. It's ignoring looks from the article. Am I only supposed to have an h-card on the homepage?
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[keithjgrant] *links
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voxpelli dgold: great that it works out for you! please feel free to share any feedback you have on them, especially the micropub one I haven't had much feedback on from users – would love to improve them to make them easier for others to use
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voxpelli [keithjgrant]: is your h-entry nested in your h-card? because if so: that's tricky
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voxpelli [keithjgrant]: and yes, your h-card should probably only be on your homepage/about-page – at least your authoritative h-card
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petermolnar [keithjgrant] each h-entry can have a h-card as well
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petermolnar what's the url you're testing?
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dgold voxpelli I was wondering where in the micropub->express->jekyllwrangler the 'title' 'format' and 'slug' fields are added?
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aaronpk [keithjgrant]: the form on telegraph is meant for testing sending from a post permalink, so try testing putting your article URL there rather than your home page URL
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dgold js isn't my bag, and I just wanted to change some things around
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voxpelli dgold: did you use my micropub endpoint with your Hugo site? very interesting if so! been wanting to try that out and make it be supported out of the box
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dgold That was, hand on heart, the easiest bit of the entire project, voxpelli.
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aaronpk [keithjgrant]: also <a class="p-url" should be <a class="u-url" otherwise the parser uses the text inside the <a> as the value of "url"
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voxpelli dgold: it's all derived in https://github.com/voxpelli/node-format-microformat/blob/master/index.js and some through the use of https://github.com/voxpelli/node-jekyll-utils
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aaronpk [keithjgrant]: and if your post permalink is going to have more than one top-level h-* object, then you need to set the u-url property of the primary object which in your case is h-entry
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voxpelli dgold: a bit hard to point it out better right now, but please add an issue in https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-micropub-to-github, especially if you want the slug to be different
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dgold will do, thanks.
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jonnybarnes oh wow bridgy is awesome!
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dgold I wrote up some of the process on https://ascraeus.org/embracing-the-indieweb/
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Loqi Embracing the IndieWeb
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jonnybarnes replied to an aaronpk post, and bridgy automatically adds the right twitter handle when syndicating to twitter :D
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jonnybarnes although now https://aaronparecki.com/2017/01/27/6/jawbone has two replies from me
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] It's that time again, my 8th @Jawbone is dying. Does the automatic sleep tracking on @FitBit actually work now?
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aaronpk heh yeah i should be deduping those. as long as your post has the syndication URL pointing to your tweet, i should be able to dedupe
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voxpelli and as long as a webmention was sent after the syndication URL was added – my guess is that the webmention could have been sent before
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aaronpk nah it doesn't matter what order
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aaronpk i think i have some deduping code in there already, but i think i'm only catching half the cases
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voxpelli aaronpk: are you updating mentions even when you don't receive update pings?
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aaronpk oh wait right you said after the syndication URL was added
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aaronpk although if the tweet includes a backlink (like jonnybarnes' did) then I could use that to trigger an update of the original
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voxpelli true
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KartikPrabhu I made a "original-of" page for such things https://kartikprabhu.com/original-of
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Loqi Original-of
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aaronpk oh yeah! me too!
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aaronpk i copied KartikPrabhu's https://aaronparecki.com/original-of
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KartikPrabhu example: https://kartikprabhu.com/original-of/?url=https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/819755523830587393
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@kartik_prabhu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fQ5wOSLPvI this video by @TheeNerdwriter summarises everything that I disliked about Interstellar… and yes I am a physicist. (twitter.com/_/status/819755523830587393)
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KartikPrabhu hey even Loqi found it!
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aaronpk haha yeah! cause it just redirects
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Loqi rofl
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KartikPrabhu sometimes the simplicity of the Web is amazing
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KartikPrabhu I suppose if a website advertises a rel=original-of or something then you could dedup webmentions in any order?
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aaronpk that seems like the next step
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[keithjgrant] Sorry, I posted my Q then got pulled away. URL is http://keithjgrant.com/posts/2017/01/its-both/
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Loqi It’s Both
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[keithjgrant] h-card is outside (before) the h-entry
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KartikPrabhu [keithjgrant]: I really like your tabbed interface for responses
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[keithjgrant] thanks :slightly_smiling_face:
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[keithjgrant] and thanks everyone else for the tips. I'll rework my microformats a bit
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[keithjgrant] aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 461 karma in this channel (1192 overall)
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KartikPrabhu [keithjgrant]: also, some of your "recent posts" links are hard to read due to the background
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dgold echoes KartikPrabhu, that's really well done
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[keithjgrant] yeah, I need to clean that part up still
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[keithjgrant] voxpelli++
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Loqi voxpelli has 88 karma in this channel (96 overall)
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dgold [keithjgrant] You're using voxpelli's endpoint?
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dgold ah, nvm
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gRegorLove Nice animations, too, [keithjgrant]
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gRegorLove [keithjgrant]++
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Loqi keithjgrant has 1 karma
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dgold [keithjgrant] For some reason, I was labouring under the (clearly erroneous) idea that Hugo/SSG didn't play nice with webmention.io
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aaronpk webmention.io just doesn't provide a UI for showing comments. you have to build that part yourself, it just gives you the comment data as JSON
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[keithjgrant] I do it all client-side
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[keithjgrant] I could pull them down when I build, then update stale bits on the client, but that seemed a lot of work for little gain
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dgold i really got behind on js. sigh.
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KevinMarks Mobilepub and inkstone aren't posting to my Known install any more
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@kevinmarks Thoughtful and thorough post on GraphQL by @philsturgeon https://philsturgeon.uk/api/2017/01/24/graphql-vs-rest-overview/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/825030693679828992)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Thoughtful and thorough post on GraphQL by @philsturgeon https://philsturgeon.uk/api/2017/01/24/graphql-vs-rest-overview/ #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2017-01-27 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/thoughtful-and-thorough-post-on-graphql-by-philsturgeon-api20170124graphql-vs-rest-overview-indieweb
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[keithjgrant] dgold Used the new <template> tag for my comments & hydrate it in JS. This is the first I've really played around with that. No clue what happens in IE though :wink:
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tantek good morning #indieweb!
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dgold does anyone care/know about IE anymore?
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aaronpk whoa i didn't know about <template>
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aaronpk MS is pushing Edge so hard now that unless you're making something for an enterprise/government environment where they might still be using windows xp, i don't think you need to worry about anything before Edge
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KevinMarks Template is one of the pieces of the web component model
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tantek dgold Edge? or classic IE?
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gRegorLove Main thing I've run into with IE recently is IE10 doesn't have TLS 1.1 and 1.2 enabled by default. But even that has been rare.
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@voxpelli @richardolsson Dags för lite IndieWeb kanske? Plocka mikrobloggandet till egna sajten och bara småsynka med Twitter? :) (twitter.com/_/status/825036632025862145)
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dgold [keithjgrant] / KevinMarks - Template?
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dgold what is template
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Loqi A template is a file used to generate a page https://indieweb.org/template
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KartikPrabhu dgold: see: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/template
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dgold already there, KartikPrabhu
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[keithjgrant] that's it. Sorry, in and out today
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tantek what is the template element?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "template element" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek there you go ^^^
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@ChrisAldrich @jbjohansson Congrats! Feel free to join us in chat if you have questions or problems. #indieweb http://indieweb.org/irc (twitter.com/_/status/825046073932730368)
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Loqi [indieweb] "@jbjohansson Congrats! Feel free to join us in chat if you have questions or problems. #indieweb http://indieweb.org/irc" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-01-27 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/jbjohansson-congrats-feel-free-to-join-us-in-chat-if
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@100daysindieweb Day 38: New Sneaky Redirect Test for https://webmention.rocks/ #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/01/27/13/day-38-webmention-rocks (twitter.com/_/status/825057897625243648)
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tantek oh dang there it is
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sl007 aaronpk sknebel - confused question : "mailto:" and "sms:" and "tel:" links do not have a following "//", right ?
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aaronpk correct
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sl007 Stupid article: http://thenewcode.com/856/Send-a-SMS-Text-From-A-Link - however : Indieauth currently allows this (just looked at the code regexes), is it intended ?
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aaronpk hm i may have just not thought about that when i wrote the parser
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tantek sl007 you don't want that article, you want this article: http://tantek.com/2014/084/b1/urls-people-focused-mobile-communication :)
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] URLs For People Focused Mobile Communication
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sl007 ok - then IndieAuth-node will not allow this ;) thankyou tantek !
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tantek or
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tantek what is comms?
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Loqi communication in the context of the indieweb refers to using your personal website as a starting point and potentially way for people to contact you https://indieweb.org/comms
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tantek that ^^^
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sl007 ok ! Thankyou aaronpk too. Hope anything is fine over the ocean - oh wait, hope both of you are fine ;)
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tantek Instagram's website has hashtag pages now: https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/indiewebcamp/
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Loqi [indieweb] "My reply to Micro.blog Project Surges Past $65K on Kickstarter, Gains Backing from DreamHost | WordPress Tavern" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-01-27 http://boffosocko.com/2017/01/27/my-reply-to-micro-blog-project-surges-past-65k-on-kickstarter-gains-backing-from-dreamhost-wordpress-tavern/
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@ChrisAldrich Reply to @wptavern: http://Micro.blog Project Surges on Kickstarter, Gains Backing from @DreamHost #indieweb http://boffosocko.com/2017/01/27/my-reply-to-micro-blog-project-surges-past-65k-on-kickstarter-gains-backing-from-dreamhost-wordpress-tavern/ (twitter.com/_/status/825084922549325825)
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chrisaldrich I think I mentioned it recently, but Instagram also has the ability to do inline replies to other comments and to like individual comments as well (at least in their mobile app)
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[cleverdevil] Hmm, tried to reply to you, chrisaldrich, but for some reason Known isn't sending a webmention :stuck_out_tongue:
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chrisaldrich Maybe it isn't liking that I posted that from WordPress instead of Known? ;)
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chrisaldrich [cleverdevil] you could always syndicate it to the twitter thread, and I'd see it that way too
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[cleverdevil] I dunno, I never really was entirely certain that Known would automatically send the webmention when I did a status post "in reply" to a site, or if its something I had to configure externally.
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chrisaldrich [cleverdevil] Actually, it did send and I just saw it; my WordPress site moderates comments/webmentions, so they don't always show up immediately
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chrisaldrich if you're doing an in-reply-to and have the url in the box, it will automatically send the webmention for you without configuration
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chrisaldrich typically if someone displays syndication links to other silos and I reply to their direct post, I try to syndicate my reply to those same silos for parity of distributed conversation and threading if I can
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chrisaldrich I also try to keep track of those who have the ability to receive webmentions and syndicate replies to other silos as well, so if Tantek doesn't support receiving webmentions to his site, for example, but I know he's syndicated to Twitter, I'll reply to both, so I know that he got a notification one way or the other.
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gRegorLove Known has some webmention issues last I understood. Ran into that with Tyler replying to me from his Known site.
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GWG https://wptavern.com/micro-blog-project-surges-past-65k-on-kickstarter-gains-backing-from-dreamhost#comment-207931
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GWG I don't know who Pete is, but I am flattered.
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GWG Anyone know who that is? I have always been bad with names
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miklb not familiar with him https://shawfactor.com/peter-shaw/
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miklb but sounds like would be a good time to polish up a mf2 theme framework…
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GWG miklb, I have been putting it off till @pfefferle felt the new Webmentions stuff was ready for stable, but I might do it anyway after I finish my tour of plugin updates
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miklb I'd be game for helping tackle 2017
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GWG miklb, they still have a Github repo right?
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miklb https://github.com/WordPress/twentyseventeen seems so
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miklb but seems that not up-to-date with core if I'm reading it right
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GWG No, moved to Core.
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GWG What is the best way to keep a Github repo synced with an SVN system?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "best way to keep a Github repo synced with an SVN system" yet. Would you like to create it?
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GWG Loqi hush
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-27.html
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aaronpk Git can clone from svn if I remember correctly
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GWG I will have to look that up.
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miklb https://git-scm.com/docs/git-svn
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miklb is reading now
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GWG But keeping an up to date fork of the current default theme isn't a bad idea. I will take 2016
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GWG 2017 is more business oriented
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miklb I haven't actually looked at the core themes that closely.
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GWG 2014 was a magazine style theme. 2015/2016 blog style. 2017 business oriented
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miklb I have to dig in the mf2 markup on my site this weekend, my reply-to posts still aren't syndicating correctly, so maybe I'll set up a repo while I'm at it
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voxpelli GWG: if you mean "SVN" as in WordPress plugin repository, then a friendly advice: Don't ever try to clone that one using git-svn
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snarfed GWG: full sync is probably overkill, just copy to svn during each release. e.g. https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/blob/master/push.sh
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GWG Theme, not plugin
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GWG miklb, I will be around if you want to bounce thoughts
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voxpelli git-svn last time I checked can't clone partial SVN repositories, and the WordPress ones I have looked at has all plugins in the very same SVN repo which means one has to clone all commits every made to any plugin there
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GWG snarfed, I am going the other way, talking about maintaining a mf2 fork of a default WordPress theme
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[cleverdevil] FWIW, I am keenly interested in getting a MF2 fork of a core theme.
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[cleverdevil] It'd be even better to do this for the last 2-3 "annual" themes, and then advocate for it being a part of 2018.
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miklb sounds like maybe we need to decide on a year and collaborate then. 2016 if more "bloggy" sounds good to me
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, I am honestly not sure how much time I or my folks will have to spend on it, so I don't want to sidetrack you.
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GWG I advocated for it to be part of twenty sixteen. Didn't pan out fully
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GWG I can convert a theme for mf2 pretty quickly
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[cleverdevil] Awesome.
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miklb momentum might be on your side now
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GWG It is not as hard as it seems if you have done it and if the theme is based on _s
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[cleverdevil] What's the best way to support all of the mf2 microformats in WP? Would it be WP post formats? Or custom post types?
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GWG I go with the post type being h-entry.
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GWG So anything not h-entry is a custom post type
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GWG And I created a taxonomy for different kinds of h-entry, but I know that there are alternatives
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GWG Post Kinds is that taxonomy attempt. I know it could be a lot better
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GWG And snarfed I know has a different philosophy
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[cleverdevil] I suppose that if things were done with it in mind, people could build plugins for composing things like h-recipe, h-review, and the like.
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GWG Exactly
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GWG H-entry has like, reply, etc. which is a bit more cumbersome in the interface
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GWG And both snarfed and I use mf2_ as a prefix in metadata for microformats 2 properties
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GWG I have been slowly working through my plugins for that
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miklb snarfed what is your approach?
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snarfed sorry, haven't been following. i definitely don't have a philosophy. i just use the uf2 plugin with a few tweaks: https://snarfed.org/functions.php.txt
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snarfed (only a few parts of that are for mf2)
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miklb snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 250 karma in this channel (254 overall)
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GWG snarfed, I thought your philosophy was to code mf2 properties manually in post content for the most part
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miklb thanks for sharing that. I see.a few tricks in there that might help with my reply-to issue
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GWG That was the difference I was referring to
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snarfed GWG: ah, post types. yes. no big philosophy, just what i do
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chrisaldrich I don't think there are huge updates to the annual themes a month or two after they're released, usually just small tweaks; perhaps it's worth having indieweb forks on Github with better mf2 for those who want them?
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chrisaldrich See also: https://indieweb.org/WordPress/Development#Brainstorming
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GWG Chrisaldrich, I am prepared after two years of saying it to just do it
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GWG snarfed, maybe philosophy is the wrong word, but that was what I was referring to
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GWG Not everyone is on team taxonomy nor do they need to be
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chrisaldrich GWG, I think post kinds could be a lot more flexible if it had specific stylable classes on the tags instead of just raw mf2 https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds/issues/60 ;)
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chrisaldrich similarly forks for sage or underscores that are indieweb compatible if they don't want to keep parity...
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chrisaldrich I think that those forks would be very helpful to Indiweb in general until those deemed it necessary/useful to support them directly.
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GWG Why not use kind-note or such which is on every kind tagged post class
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GWG But I want to continue to improve?
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miklb yeah, I don't see an issue styling a taxonomy class
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chrisaldrich GWG, sorry, it's been a while since I've looked at it, but that's not a bad idea...
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chrisaldrich I think there's also a few small tweaks some of the "annual" themes could take that make them indieweb prettier, kind of like the changes manton has made to his version of 2012 so that it's more microbloggy for notes
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chrisaldrich for example: http://www.manton.org/category/micro
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chrisaldrich I missed the convo earlier, but it looks like Pete may be vying against me as president of the GWG fan club...
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GWG Chrisaldrich, do you know him?
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GWG And I am the President of the pfefferle fan club.
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chrisaldrich I don't know him unfortunately, though it seems like he was watching the space pretty closely based on his comments
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chrisaldrich GWG, I meant to ping you last week while you were working on Bridgy Publish, but it might be interesting to include a (hidden) checkbox in the code for that to send webmentions for Indieweb related posts to IndieNews (I'd noticed something similar in https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-indienews)
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chrisaldrich By hidden, I mean commented out in the code such that one would need to know its hiding there and uncomment it to make it accessible (mostly to cut down on potential spam for those that don't know better)
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petermolnar chrisaldrich don't do hidden code; just put it under and options page option
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chrisaldrich petermolnar, that's certainly an option, but once we get to gen3/4, it opens things up to potential abuse...
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petermolnar fair point
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chrisaldrich those in gen1 who are the likely readers/subscribers/publishers will actually read the code and know... #easteregg
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GWG Chrisaldrich, I had thought about adding IndieNews, though not hidden
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miklb if something has the potential to be abused, it will
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GWG I will revisit the idea.
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GWG miklb, I have to agree there.
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-27.html
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chrisaldrich I think that IndieNews is somewhat underutilized because there's a hurdle to posting to it.
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chrisaldrich GWG, keep in mind that indienews differentiates having a trailing slash or not and will 404 depending on how the syndication link is done :)
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GWG Chrisaldrich, I will give it thought regardless
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chrisaldrich speaking of the newsletter, it would be nice if there were an IndieNews section of it...
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GWG I am in the midst of Syndication Links and won't return to Bridgy Publish or Simple Location till I release an update
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chrisaldrich GWG++ for heroic efforts since December
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Loqi gwg has 184 karma in this channel (200 overall)
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aaronpk chrisaldrich: the links in the newsletter *are* from indienews
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chrisaldrich Filed https://github.com/dshanske/bridgy-publish/issues/23 as reminder for future reference
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snarfed indienews is great...but unrelated to bridgy publish, right?
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snarfed er, at least to bridgy
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GWG I said I wanted to make the rounds on my plugins. I think the Simple Location and Bridgy Publish updates were great pushes forward
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chrisaldrich aaronpk, I wasn't sure not having doublechecked, but should have known you'd have done that
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aaronpk i'm also not really sure how you want the "trailing slash" issue resolved. I can't assume people have the same content at a URL that ends with / vs not with /, there are plenty of examples where they are different content. so I can't just always trim the last slash.
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GWG snarfed, yes, but Publish by Webmention is the commonality. The fact that the plugin is Bridgy Publish is sort of why I only thought about it.
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chrisaldrich snarfed, I was referencing GWG's Bridgy Publish plugin which is structured well for adding a webmention to IndieNews
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snarfed right. more growth like that and it may deserve a rename :P
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GWG snarfed, I can rename the plugin but not the slug.
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GWG It might be Publish by Webmention
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chrisaldrich There's an IndieSyndicate plugin in Known that is somewhat similar in functionality. Also Convoy in Known is a bigger umbrella version similar to the Bridgy Publish plugin.
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GWG I will revisit the name if I decide to do it.
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on My reply to Micro.blog Project Surges Past $65K on Kickstarter, Gains Backing from DreamHost | WordPress Tavern by Jonathan LaCour" by Jonathan LaCour on 2017-01-27 http://boffosocko.com/2017/01/27/my-reply-to-micro-blog-project-surges-past-65k-on-kickstarter-gains-backing-from-dreamhost-wordpress-tavern/#comment-33623
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acegiak morning, all
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chrisaldrich good afternoon from LA acegiak--we can see you today!
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acegiak I'm on weechat because it was obvious my slack messages weren't visible
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tantek good day acegiak !
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tantek aaronpk why doesn't the slack-irc bridge like acegiak ?
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aaronpk again? or just yesterday?
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acegiak I assume it's because my slack name is a URL?
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aaronpk wat
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acegiak My slack name is acegiak.net
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aaronpk hmm
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acegiak Because it wouldn't let me use just acegiak
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aaronpk oh? were you already registered?
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acegiak I think so but I couldn't find any trace of existing rego?
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acegiak So I just used a
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acegiak My url
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tantek whoa
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acegiak Cause that seemed in keeping with the theme?
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aaronpk aha i do see another account
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tantek acegiak++
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Loqi acegiak has 29 karma
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tantek acegiak.net++
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Loqi acegiak.net has 1 karma
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tantek :D
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aaronpk okay well in that case I will make the bridge replace "." with "_" and then it should work
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aaronpk i don't think "." is allowed as an IRC nickname on freenode
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tantek likely
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tantek or I should say
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tantek it is probable
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acegiak I mean I can switch back to the old one if we can reset the password
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acegiak If that's better?
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tantek acegiak you should choose your identity :)
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acegiak I'd rather just be acegiak without the .Net if I can. I just couldn't get password/login working
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acegiak I have to have a shower. When I get back I'll have another go at resetting the password
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tantek passwords--
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Loqi passwords has -4 karma in this channel (-6 overall)
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KevinMarks1 theres a problem with browsers autofilling he password for other Slack subdomains
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tantek slack has a multiple identity problem
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sknebel "." is not allowed in IRC usernames at all (according to the RFCs). annoyingly, slacks own IRC bridge doesn't care about what some stupid RFCs say...
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miklb tantek you can say that again