#indiewebcamp 2012-11-06

2012-11-06 UTC
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tantek.com created /activities (+77) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /activities (-1) "fix link" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /feed_readers (+25) "r" (view diff)
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tantek !tell barnabywalters - take a look at http://indiewebcamp.com/feed_reader - just a did braindump for now including stuff you've mentioned. Please add/fix! Thanks, t
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@singpolyma Getting a free TLS certificate that will work in major browsers: https://github.com/ioerror/duraconf/blob/master/startssl/README.markdown #indieweb https://singpolyma.net/?post_type=actionstream&p=317887
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tantek Indieweb folks, assuming your home page supports hAtom, add it here: http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-examples-in-wild#indieweb_sites
spinnerin, tommorris_, joshr_, aaronpk_, dascher, zztr, tantek, tilgovi, dietrich, josephboyle, borior, friedcell and barnabywalters joined the channel
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message 10 hours, 23 minutes ago: - take a look at http://indiewebcamp.com/feed_reader - just a did braindump for now including stuff you've mentioned. Please add/fix! Thanks, t
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@sandeepshetty Decided to go with post_id based #permalinks for #converspace and traded off [...](http://www.sandeep.io/posts/2) #indieweb
adactio, barnabywalters, dascher_, dascher, tantek, tommorris, spinnerin, morrocco_mole, tilgovi, friedcell, barnabywalters_ and sandeepshetty joined the channel
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tantek aaronpk, I've been iterating on citation/linking UIs for articles (and/or notes) and what I've finally come up with as the next iteration I want for my site is similar in appearance to what you have for your articles
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aaronpk oh! great. I'm pretty happy with it as well. I have a blog post in my queue about the design of my permalinks too.
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tantek it's the first major revision I've done to it since I first put an interface for it on my posts in early 2011: http://dribbble.com/shots/123002-2011-061-Falcon-blog-links-embeds#comment-323888
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aaronpk I'm actually reconsidering using the day number in the full URL, I may switch back to month/day
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tantek I've been a bit stuck on it for a few months actually
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tantek I gathered all the possible use-cases I cared about, then I created a UI to handle them all, then never finished implementing it - it had too many pieces.
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aaronpk I remember that
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tantek so I've gone back and minimized the use-cases to just the *two* most common *for me personally*
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tantek and then redesigned from scratch for just those two
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tantek using inspiration from sketches during the development of the previous "comprehensive" citation UI
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tantek one big "change"
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tantek I've decided to drop an explicit "shortlink" field from my citation UI
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tantek since Twitter now tcos everything, there are fewer use-cases for shortlinks
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tantek I mean, I still have a few documented, but in looking over them again, I haven't actually *used* any of the remaining shortlink use-cases myself for over 6 months
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tantek so to me that means I can leave them out of the UI until a need arises
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tantek so hard to minimize things
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tantek anyway, after I'd done my redesign sketch iterations and found one I liked, I decided to check yours again, and it turns out we came to similar conclusions
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tantek one thing I'm going to try doing differently though, is to *only* put the citation UI on my articles, not my "notes"
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tantek my notes already have so little text on the permalink page, that I feel adding much more text (even just a citation UI) may distract too much from the content.
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tantek whereas in an article / blog post, the citation UI will likely load far "below the fold" and "feel" like just a bit of additional UI, rather than a big percentage of the text on the page.
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aaronpk good distinction between notes/articles I think
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tommorris so, I went with /posts/id because I'm lazy. ;-)
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tantek tommorris - laziness is totally fair :)
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tommorris I did think about GUIDs/UUIDs, but the URL is the unique ID.
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tantek another thing (re: citation UI) - I kept iterating on the citation hypertext markup until I came up with something that seemed reasonable to me, with sufficiently high fidelity that a citation aggregator could make interesting use out of it, and so that copy/pasting it resulted in clear enough markup and display text for folks to be able to just drop into a blog post and have it work.
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tantek tommorris - completely agreed about "the URL is the unique ID"
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tantek all the other stuff, ETAGs etc. was a massive distraction in the RSS community
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tantek so I'm going with the brainstorm which we came up with at IndieWebCamp2012 in Portland, and which has been refined / iterated here: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#web_citations
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tantek (for web citation markup)
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tommorris well, yes, when people were doing <guid>example.org:post1234</guid>, I wanted to find the relevant people and explain URIs to them.
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tantek yeah
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tommorris so, here's a citation use case: adding references to wikipedia. The amount of time I spend converting crap between citation formats by hand is ridiculous.
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tantek agreed
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tantek tommorris - believe it or not, that's one of the use cases in my more "comprehensive" set of use-cases for a citation UI
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tommorris I started https://github.com/tommorris/bibtowiki the other day so I can copy-paste BibTeX in to a web service and it spits out Wikipedia.
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tantek I may get to implementing it in my site at some point
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tantek just because it makes sense to encourage folks to add wikipedia references to your own blog posts
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tantek but not today
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tantek for now, it will remain in UI sketch form
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tommorris there are various not-particularly-reliable Wikipedia citation scripts for Greasemonkey
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tantek tommorris - perhaps you can take a look at the h-cite brainstorm and see how hard it would be to do an h-cite -> <ref> transform
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tantek h-cite brainstorm: http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming#web_citations
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tommorris I know there was some for the major news sites like BBC, NYTimes, CNN etc.
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tommorris I've been meaning to write a "everything to Wikipedia citation" script that'd follow some set of rules like looking for microformats, RDFa, Facebook Graph stuff, COinS and so on.
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tommorris or perhaps nick something like that from Zotero.
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tommorris http://reftag.appspot.com/ is something I use almost daily - it's an open source web service someone made to turn Google Books URLs into Wikipedia citations.
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tantek huh
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tantek I don't cite books much
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tantek mostly I just cite other web articles
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tantek hence I'm optimizing for that
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tommorris happens a lot on WP for historical articles, but obviously not an important use case for web stuff
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tantek alright, time to break my site