#indiewebcamp 2013-05-08

2013-05-08 UTC
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pdurbin heh. I think I only ever used it to edit local files
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tantek I think we here (#indiewebcamp) have the best chance of re-attaining a read-write web.
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tantek by/for everyone
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pdurbin whoops, I meant to type W3C, of course
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pdurbin tantek: well, the web was more read/write back when the only people on the web were pioneers and technologists, right? people who were motivated to register their own domains, maybe even host stuff themselves
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tantek we have *got* to solve the indie events posting + RSVP problem
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tantek so frustrating to post events on silos
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tantek so many weird problems
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@Silona Oh yes @amye going 2 @osbridge n @indiewebcamp luckly my #Opensource #OSHW kickstarter will be done! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1286098094/wirelessly-connect-all-the-things-with-sapphire
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christopheducamp.com edited /Facebook-fr (+2017) "[fr: sync'd translation + 2 articles in fr]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /Facebook-fr (-35) "[fr: ''Cette page a démarré sur [[Facebook]]'']" (view diff)
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pdurbin I still use evite. old school, I guess :) ... works well enough for me
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christopheducamp.com edited /Facebook-fr (-83) "/* Articles */ removed duplicate" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /Facebook-fr (+3) "[fr: grammar + link POSSE-fr]" (view diff)
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aaronpk really tempted to add full h-event support to IndieNews this weekend
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tantek ooh!
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tantek that reminds me
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aaronpk right now it recognizes h-events and uses the event title + venue as the headline for the entry
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tantek aaronpk - how about the datetime at the start?
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tantek (of the headline)
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aaronpk that would be good
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tantek time is important for events ;)
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aaronpk I also would love to see a calendar view of entries
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tantek that's actually not as important
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tantek upcoming launched with only lists of events
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tantek and it was awesome
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aaronpk true
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tantek calendar views are overhyped - blow it off
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aaronpk well I'll add an "/events" URL that shows just the h-events it found
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tantek at most, a calendar widget to click-on to scroll around is a nice-to-have
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barnabywalters if people want calendar view, they should feed the h-entry -> VCALENDAR into their calendar app of choice
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aaronpk true! I can add "events.ics" so you can subscribe directly
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barnabywalters aaronpk: that would be cool. protip: the vobject library extracted from sabredav is a great way of generating that nasty VCARD/CALENDAR syntax
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barnabywalters IIRC it has some magic which handles timezones correctly too
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:fb-event-rsvp-in-news-feed-screenshot 2013-05-07 19.02.10.png]]""
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aaronpk timezones :)
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aaronpk always fun to deal with
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barnabywalters with taproot my approach so far has been to ignore them and hope for the best
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aaronpk :)
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tantek LOL
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aaronpk usually works fine for single-user things
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tantek with Falcon I've just put everything in Pacific time, even when I'm posting from overseas / other timezones.
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aaronpk i've been trying to be better about supporting timezones in things I make
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barnabywalters tantek: that is what my approach boils down to
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tantek so I can re-interpret the data later if I need to
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tantek though right now I'm not distinguishing PST/PDT
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tantek so some additional smarts may be necessary (beyond simply -0800)
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aaronpk p3k supports setting the timezone per post, which is nice for notes cause you get the extra context of evening/morning. http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2012/12/05/2/leweb12
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barnabywalters I have some styling stuff planned involving the amount of daylight in my current timezone
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aaronpk nice
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aaronpk i want to figure out some sort of visual indication of my local time that isn't obnoxious
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aaronpk suppose I could just use a slightly darker grey grid background in the evenings
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barnabywalters but bigger holes to fill before that — namely persistence and indexing
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barnabywalters on which note, I’d be interested in feedback on the API brainstorming I’ve been doing: https://github.com/Taproot/librarian/blob/master/librarianApiNoodling.php
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aaronpk interesting
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barnabywalters the idea is to store everything in flat files, have SQL-based indexes, with a table per index
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barnabywalters then expose the indexes as really fluent APIs
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barnabywalters designed around my particular use cases
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barnabywalters and all DB stuff is completely automated, so I can freely add/remove/change indexes and everything just gets updated
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aaronpk cool, seems reasonable
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aaronpk i've gone with a different approach with p3k, not as flexible
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tantek DB as a cache of info from flatfiles?
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barnabywalters tantek: right on
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barnabywalters where schema of info in flat files is optimal for reading, schema of info in DB is optimised for querying
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barnabywalters and I can throw away DB without worrying, because all the indexes will get rebuilt automatically
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Loqi BECAUSE ALL THE INDEXES http://loqi.me/7BT
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tantek yeah, that's the only good use for a DB
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barnabywalters I have flat file saving working, just getting started on the DB/indexes stuff
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tantek purely as a cache, never for persistence
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aaronpk my "/notes" URL does a directory scan to find all the files in my "notes" directory. my tags are indexes saved as flat files (yaml format)
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tantek aaronpk - sounds like a good detail to add to indiewebcamp.com/p3k ;)
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tantek my storage directory structure is already documented on indiewebcamp.com/Falcon
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tantek so, re: events
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tantek finally saw an RSVP post in my news feed
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tantek or is it newsfeed?
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tantek posted: http://microformats.org/wiki/rsvp-examples#Newsfeed_RSVP
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aaronpk oh nice!
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tantek so that's a good starting point for both figuring out the pieces of an RSVP post
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tantek and a decent presentation
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tantek (one that others will recognize for sure, since people see them in FB)
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tantek and once we have that, we can start posting RSVPs on our own sites
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tantek as "replies" to "event" posts
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tantek where said "event" posts can be on another indieweb site (of course)
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tantek OR (and in addition to) on events.indiewebcamp.com
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tantek the same logic that displays comments received via webmention on a post
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tantek can be used to display RSVPs received via webmention on an event post
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tantek of course that "logic that displays comments received via webmention" is only implemented currently in Storytlr right?
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aaronpk also implemented in IndieNews
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tantek a-ha!
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aaronpk so it will be a relatively small change to recognize "rsvp comments" and display those accordingly
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barnabywalters so do we have a format for rsvp comments specced out?
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tantek barnabywalters - extracting the implied schema from the FB RSVP example as we speak
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tantek aside, I was searching for the answer to "news feed or newsfeed" and found this:
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tantek https://www.facebook.com/about/newsfeed
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tantek look at all the post types!
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barnabywalters “bright, beautiful stories”? hoaxes, “puzzles” and game requests more like
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aaronpk whoa, this is crazy
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barnabywalters quite nice UI though
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tantek I think it's an out of date page
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aaronpk you sure? I clicked the "join the waitlist" button and it said 14 of my friends have "made the switch"
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+219) "aggregator" (view diff)
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tantek barnabywalters re: format for rsvp comments, here's a draft: http://microformats.org/wiki/rsvp-brainstorming#h-entry_plus_additions
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barnabywalters tantek: away for a few mins, will have a look when I get back
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tantek np - I'm off to a telcon - might do while walking/running ;)
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barnabywalters tantek: +1 on p-rsvp
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pdurbin you guys are giving me too much to catch up on ;)
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pdurbin aaronpk: dunno if you saw my comments about a "today" page for these logs. and links to previous and next days: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-05-06#t1367891112
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aaronpk I would totally expect to write something like this in a note: I'm <span class="p-rsvp value-title" title="yes">going</span> to <a href="http://indiewebcamp.com/2013">IndieWebCamp 2013</a>
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aaronpk pdurbin: oh yes, good idea on the /today URL
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pdurbin cool. and links to the next and previous day of logs?
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aaronpk I'm <span class="p-rsvp value-title" title="yes">going</span> to <a href="http://indiewebcamp.com/2013" class="u-in-reply-to">IndieWebCamp 2013</a>
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aaronpk pdurbin: yes, that was an oversight :) all my other IRC log views have next/prev day links
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pdurbin right. no worries
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pdurbin otherwise the logs are perfect. permalinks per line. links are clickable
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aaronpk I do want to add highlighting of the line that is permalinked like how Github does it
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aaronpk like how it highlights in yellow the line linked to in the fragment https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/blob/master/controller.rb#L9
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aaronpk need a bit of clever javascript is all
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pdurbin aaronpk: https://github.com/moritz/ilbot does yellow highlighting: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/ilbot/2013-05-07#i_7028518
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aaronpk ah yes, but I'd do it on the whole line
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pdurbin !tell barnabywalters if you have a bunch of flat files you want to index and expose via an API, you could use http://lucene.apache.org/solr/ or http://www.elasticsearch.org
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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pdurbin Loqi: thanks. even though, you're on my /ignore list
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aaronpk oh no
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aaronpk "At the end of these standards, in order to be federated, we are essentially talking about one system. Standardized storage, as well as back ends, basically with infinitely customizable GUIs."
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aaronpk from FSW mailing list
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benwerd That's not a million miles away from saying we should only have one kind of web server, or browser type.
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tantek aaronpk - URL?
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aaronpk good question...
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aaronpk ah here we go
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aaronpk http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fedsocweb/2013May/0006.html
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tantek aaronpk - btw re: your p-rsvp markup snippets - better to use <data> element as provided in the examples in the brainstorm proposal.
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tantek rather than value-class pattern
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aaronpk why's that?
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tantek simpler, less markup
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tantek also, enums aren't really supposed to go into visible title attributes
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aaronpk ah yes
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tantek as enums are machine-values - that they're human readable is a positive design accident at best, and likely only to English readers
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aaronpk so, it would actually be:
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tantek which is why if you *really* wanted to use the value class pattern you should use the nested-empty-span approach
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tantek to avoid the problem of visible title enum values
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tantek so data is better:
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tantek I'm <data class="p-rsvp" value="yes">going</data> to <a href="http://indiewebcamp.com/2013">IndieWebCamp 2013</a>
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aaronpk I'm <data class="p-rsvp" value="yes">going</data> to <a href="http://indiewebcamp.com/2013" class="u-in-reply-to">IndieWebCamp 2013</a>
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tantek yeah - assuming there's an h-entry h-event at http://indiewebcamp.com/2013
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aaronpk cool
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aaronpk seems reasonable
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tantek aaronpk - just reading that FSW thread now. yikes.
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aaronpk yea...
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aaronpk I kind of want to chime in with a link to your post showing our indieweb comments
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tantek I kind of want to reply with either a Yoda-style or Morpheus-style reply debunking each and every false assertion / assumption that is made in that thread.
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aaronpk oh man please do :)
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tantek wow - there were no messages in April so the link for FSW April archives is a 404
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tantek http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fedsocweb/ works and shows the absence of April
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tantek March had 2 messages - quite dead: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fedsocweb/2013Mar/
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tantek and the aforementioned 404: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fedsocweb/2013Apr/
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tantek aaronpk - on a more positive note - I'm working on getting sponsors for parts of IndieWebCamp 2013
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tantek do we have a "how to sponsor IndieWebCamp" page somewhere?
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tantek something you've used with past sponsors?
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aaronpk oh great!
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tantek I noticed that in the left sidebar, the "You?" blue text doesn't link to anything - is it supposed to?
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aaronpk somehow we don't have that page
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tantek do you have any text from emails you've sent other sponsors like Tropo that you could turn into a small "how-to-sponsor" wiki page?
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aaronpk should take some hints from opensourcebridge.org, they have great sponsor materials
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aaronpk yea, i'm digging up some stuff
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tantek nothing too big, something short and sweet would be sufficient
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tantek and then we can add to adaptively it as sponsors ask questions
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tantek s/adaptively it/it adaptively
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Loqi tantek meant to say: and then we can add to it adaptively as sponsors ask questions
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tantek.com edited /Sponsors (+95) "How to sponsor" (view diff)
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aaronpk wow, somehow I've been able to get all the sponsors so far by talking to them in person. Can't find any sort of pitch email in my archives
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tantek.com edited /event (+262) "rsvp, disambig events" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /how-to-sponsor (+531) "draft with what we've found we needed sponsorship for in the past" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+62) "disambig event" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - ok, here's a braindump off the top of my head - please feel free to rewrite in any way you deem fit: http://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-sponsor
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aaronpk wonderful, got a bunch about to submit there
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tantek thanks!
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tantek.com edited /2013 (+4) "/* to-do */ link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2013 (+67) "/* to-do */ use planning" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2013/Planning (+8) "signing up Mozilla for day 1 coffee" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2013/Planning (+38) "/* roles */ contact" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /how-to-sponsor (+1961) (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: how's that look? http://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-sponsor
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tantek hmm - we don't have printed material
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tantek the rest looks awesome!
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tantek shall we ditch the printed material until we actually have a reason to have some
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tantek ?
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elf-pavlik xtof: we were talking something about personal data in context of IndieWeb... :)
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xtof elf-pavlik hi, I'd be happy to talk IRL if you're still in Paris ?
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elf-pavlik cool! i may stay here till end of the week, when would you have time?
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xtof available all the week whenever you want. would be happy to invite you for dinner ?
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xtof trying to work on http://christopheducamp.com/w/OuiShareLabs-review but it's tough
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aaronpk tantek: yea good point
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aaronpk interesting thing about original post discovery... http://indiewebcamp.com/original-post-discovery
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aaronpk posts syndicated from instagram to twitter are discovered using the algorithm described
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aaronpk for example: https://twitter.com/davystevenson/status/329423904454094849 so my reply code auto-discovered the instagram URL: http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/04/30/3/
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@davystevenson View from the New Relic #railsconf after-party! @ New Relic PDX HQ http://t.co/z1yhgoT5nO
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lifeofaudrey.com edited /2013/Guest_List (+346) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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tantek hey Loqi - what in that tweet made you post it here?
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aaronpk I linked to it
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aaronpk see above ^^
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tantek ooh ok
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tantek and woohoo! welcome Audrey!
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tantek hmm - http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/04/30/3/ is taking a while to load over here
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aaronpk :( seems fine for me
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tantek hmm odd browser dns issues -
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tantek (on my end)
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tantek aaronpk - sounds like you might be taking a shortcut in the original post discovery algorithm
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tantek step 3 (which works with URL at end of tweet) explicitly says "see if it links back to the POSSE'd copy with rel=syndication and then use that URL "
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tantek since instagram is not linking to that tweet with rel=syndication, that step should fail
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aaronpk ah yea, I left that out for now, because not enough sites have rel=syndication yet (like yours :))
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tantek but yours do
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tantek as well as barnaby's, and tommorris's
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tantek otherwise you're likely to get false positives
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aaronpk yes, although in this case it's a true-false-positive
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tantek no it is a false positive - since the original does lack the commentary
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tantek which is what you're replying to
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tantek of the tweet
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aaronpk the text in the tweet? it's the caption of the image
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aaronpk instagram.com shows it overlaid on the image though so it's not obvious
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aaronpk and only on hover, it fades out after a sec
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tantek yeah - does that work on mobile?
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aaronpk checking
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aaronpk whoa... gateway timeout on instagram.com
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aaronpk on mobile the text appears below the photo, it kind of looks like a comment
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tantek oh right
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tantek well perhaps we should see if we can get IG to adopt h-entry p-author h-card on their IG photo permalinks
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tantek they have enough tags on the page already
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aaronpk that would be <3
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tantek with links and such
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tantek so what should an indieweb reply to a photo post look like? as compared to a reply to a note?
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tantek (in terms of showing the context of the original)
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aaronpk IG posts often have text, so there's the text to display as a normal post text
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aaronpk I would imagine a thumbnail of the photo about 100px, kind of like how facebook shows inline previews
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aaronpk kind of like this http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7323/8720954113_185a7ca0b7_o.png
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tantek not sure I agree with the FB treatment of context like that
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tantek it's like Twitter "cards" which show something below
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tantek instead of above, like replies to notes
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tantek I think we can do better
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aaronpk huh yea..this is interesting, can't quite figure out where to put the photo on my page
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aaronpk maybe this? http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7363/8720966695_3c6364dc48_o.png
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tantek I think you were on the right track. Do what you do now, just
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tantek yes - looks good
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tantek nice!
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tantek are you going to whitelist IG permalinks as photo posts?
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aaronpk (quick mockup in chrome dev tools, not actually coded)
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tantek upload it to indiewebcamp.com!
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aaronpk I think I might add a mf2-parser shim for Instagram like I have for Twitter
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tantek and let's put it on the comment page as a way to display a reply on your own page
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:example-reply-to-photo-showing-context.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:example-reply-showing-context-aaronpk.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /comment (+183) "/* Indieweb examples of displaying comment posts */ added screenshots" (view diff)
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aaronpk done
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aaronpk so yea, I have a class that takes Twitter JSON and outputs the same structure as if it had parsed an h-entry
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aaronpk so I may do that with Instagram as well
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aaronpk oh hey! Just realized that instagram has rel=me on the link to my website http://instagram.com/aaronpk so I can use it with IndieAuth!
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reidab are you allowing non-domain-root logins now?