#indiewebcamp 2013-05-15

2013-05-15 UTC
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aaronpk heading out, see you in SF!
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@pip RT @veganstraightedge: I was just invited to post on @medium. So, I published a post about sharecropping. ;)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+21) "/* More */ social web map" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /social_web_map (+2367) "draft with brain dump of regions and sites of each type" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /map (+28) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /social_web_map (+20) "/* Silo Island Nations */ no one is POSSEing to them yet" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /social_web_map (+28) "/* IndieWeb Alliance */ Chris Wilson" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /social_web_map (+102) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /social_web_map (+0) "/* Sketches */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2013-05-14 Social Web Map v0.jpg]]""
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Loqi [mention] http://christopheducamp.com/blog/chronoreve-indieweb-je-veux-bosser-dans-scrivener-et-publier-ou-je-veux-sur-le-web/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/note-fr (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://christopheducamp.com/blog/chronoreve-indieweb-je-veux-bosser-dans-scrivener-et-publier-ou-je-veux-sur-le-web/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to-fr (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://christopheducamp.com/blog/chronoreve-indieweb-je-veux-bosser-dans-scrivener-et-publier-ou-je-veux-sur-le-web/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood-fr (pingback)
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@xtof_fr Chronorêve #indieweb : "Je veux bosser dans Scrivener et publier où je veux sur le web !" http://christopheducamp.com/blog/chronoreve-indieweb-je-veux-bosser-dans-scrivener-et-publier-ou-je-veux-sur-le-web/
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@xtof_fitbit Chronorêve #indieweb : "Je veux bosser dans Scrivener et publier où je veux sur le web !" http://christopheducamp.com/blog/chronoreve-indieweb-je-veux-bosser-dans-scrivener-et-publier-ou-je-veux-sur-le-web/
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@QSParis Chronorêve #indieweb : "Je veux bosser dans Scrivener et publier où je veux sur le web !" http://christopheducamp.com/blog/chronoreve-indieweb-je-veux-bosser-dans-scrivener-et-publier-ou-je-veux-sur-le-web/
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@MyDataLabs Chronorêve #indieweb : "Je veux bosser dans Scrivener et publier où je veux sur le web !" http://christopheducamp.com/blog/chronoreve-indieweb-je-veux-bosser-dans-scrivener-et-publier-ou-je-veux-sur-le-web/
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tantek.com edited /social_web_map (-1) "/* IndieWeb League */ Superset" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://christopheducamp.com/blog/chronoreve-indieweb-je-veux-bosser-dans-scrivener-et-publier-ou-je-veux-sur-le-web/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress-fr (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://christopheducamp.com/blog/chronoreve-indieweb-je-veux-bosser-dans-scrivener-et-publier-ou-je-veux-sur-le-web/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths-fr (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://christopheducamp.com/blog/chronoreve-indieweb-je-veux-bosser-dans-scrivener-et-publier-ou-je-veux-sur-le-web/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/social_web_map#IndieWeb_Confederation (pingback)
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@LucBizeul +1 “@xtof_fr: Chronorêve #indieweb : "Je veux bosser dans Scrivener et publier où je veux sur le web !" http://t.co/2uAuT5HmiV”
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@Mamie_Zinzin RT @t: brilliant #indieweb #irony: @veganstraightedge sharecropping on @Medium about #sharecropping: https://medium.com:443/m/signin?redirect=/indieweb-thoughts/9d0e36524dbf (ttk.me t4Pz1)
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aaronpk barnabywalters: do you have tests or example for twitter parsing in php-mf2?
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aaronpk I can't figure out how to use it
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barnabywalters aaronpk: it’s actually a bit broken, I can’t guarantee that you’ll get valid results when using the legacy converter
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aaronpk ah
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aaronpk I want to refactor that part of the code somewhat anyway
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aaronpk I want to be able to write hooks for other known sites like instagram
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aaronpk I'm thinking a class map may not be able to parse all sites, it may take some custom xpath queries
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barnabywalters aaronpk: that’s easy enough, just create an array of oldclassname => mf2-classname
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barnabywalters so, to use the legacy classmaps, you create the parser, then addClassMap() with each classmap you want (legacy included by default), then call convertLegacy
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barnabywalters then when you call parse(), you’ll get the results as usual
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aaronpk so on instagram for example, the user profile picture is actually in the src attribute of the element: .user-avatar img
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aaronpk but the img tag doesn't have a class of its own so it can't be addressed directly with a class name
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aaronpk ah here we go... the phpQuery library lets you do CSS3 selectors to parse documents https://code.google.com/p/phpquery/
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aaronpk hmm
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barnabywalters I really don’t want to turn php-mf2 into a generic website scraping library
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aaronpk how would you feel about removing the twitter classmap from the core, and instead writing a new class that just calls mf2\Parser or does its own parsing?
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aaronpk i'll make it so you pass in the html and base URL to the parse function, and if it recognizes the URL as one of the known sites, it does its own parsing, otherwise calls mf2\Parser
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barnabywalters after trying to use the twitter classmap and getting awful results I’m inclined to think that it’d be better to create a new class for each service
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aaronpk yea exactly, easier to add stuff to later as well
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barnabywalters let’s keep this separate from mf2\Parser
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aaronpk yea
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aaronpk it's more like mf2\Shim
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barnabywalters mf2\Shim\Twitter, \Instagram, etc
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aaronpk yea
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barnabywalters okay, good plan. I’ve wanted to get rid of the twitter classmap for a while
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aaronpk great
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aaronpk this will give me a good excuse to finally figure out phpunit
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barnabywalters aaronpk: yay :)
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aaronpk yesterday I was writing a test suite for a PHP API in Ruby
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barnabywalters earlier today I was giving Behat a go — cucumber-style BDD in PHP
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aaronpk whoa crazy
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barnabywalters it’s actually really nice — Mink is a great abstraction of all the different browser emulators
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barnabywalters I might start using it a bit more seriously for Taproot
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aaronpk ok now we have this: https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2-shim
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barnabywalters aaronpk: great!
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aaronpk i'll see what I can put toghether in an hour or so
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barnabywalters aaronpk: if you want a css -> xpath library managable by composer, the Symfony2 one is pretty good: http://symfony.com/doc/master/components/css_selector.html
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aaronpk oh ok great
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aaronpk barnabywalters: do you install phpunit using the .phar?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I either install it using composer, the run it with bin/phpunit, but I also have it installed globally via PEAR. the global one is harder to update though, so I prefer composer
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barnabywalters might get rid of the PEAR version
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barnabywalters I’ve not tried the phar, it might be a good solution
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barnabywalters provided you can update it easily
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aaronpk cool, composer works well
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barnabywalters by default the phpunit binary will be installed in vendor/bin, I change it to bin/ so there’s less typing :)
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barnabywalters "bin-dir": "path" in composer.json IIRC
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aaronpk let's see if I can write a failing test before writing any of the Shim code!
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barnabywalters woo TDD
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barnabywalters phpunit-skelgen is also pretty awesome — give it a test suite, it spits out a class template (and vice versa)
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aaronpk whoa neat
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aaronpk heh I may need your help getting the structure of this set up
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barnabywalters aaronpk: np :) what’s the problem?
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aaronpk i will commit this up in a minute
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aaronpk can't quire figure out the autoloading and folder structure
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barnabywalters ah, yeah, it is a bit weird at first
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barnabywalters one of the less well-designed/documented parts of composer
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barnabywalters let’s try to capture what’s difficult about it from this, and I’ll send them a doc PR
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aaronpk good idea
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aaronpk barnabywalters: ok just pushed up my outline https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2-shim
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aaronpk when you run the tests, it can't load the Twitter or Instagram classes, somehow they are not configured properly to be in the autoloader
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barnabywalters aaronpk: looks like you’ve got the autoloader configured perfectly (in fact I think you can get away with just the top level namespace)
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barnabywalters looking in InstagramTest, the problem is that your namespace deferefencing is wrong
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barnabywalters so, you’re aliasing mf2\Shim to Shim
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aaronpk ohhh I get it now
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barnabywalters but then trying to instanciate mf2\Shim\Instagram
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barnabywalters so new Shim\Instagram should work
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aaronpk I also tried just Instagram and that failed too
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aaronpk ok well that was easy
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barnabywalters you might want to put the autoloader require into a bootstrap file so you don’t need it in all of your test files
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barnabywalters see https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/blob/master/phpunit.xml
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aaronpk can I put the "use" in the other file too?
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aaronpk ah cool
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barnabywalters aaronpk: no, use is on a file-by-file basis
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barnabywalters use does nothing more than alias classnames/namespaces — it doesn’t actually include anything
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barnabywalters that is done lazily when a classname not yet defined in local (file) scope is accessed for the first time
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aaronpk ah great now my bootstrap file works great
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barnabywalters yay! so you should be able to run the tests by just running `bin/phpunit` in the project folder
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Loqi :D
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aaronpk much better!
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aaronpk thanks!
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barnabywalters aaronpk: no problem :) happy to help anyone make the php ecosystem less crap
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aaronpk :)
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aaronpk if you're interested, google i/o keynote is being liveblogged very well here http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/15/live-blog-live-from-the-google-io-2013-keynote/
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barnabywalters ooh cool — how’s IO going so fat?
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barnabywalters s/fat/far
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: s/far/far
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aaronpk i don't actually have a ticket, but caseorganic and some others on our team do
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aaronpk i'm watching the liveblog while sitting at a coffee shop 3 blocks away
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aaronpk going dark for a minute... need to write a very careful email
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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barnabywalters afternoon tantek — how’s IO?
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tantek so far mostly Android stuff - yawn
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tantek barnabywalters - looks like some activity this morning in the channel
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tantek happy to hear that you're separating the Twitter shim out from phpmf2
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barnabywalters tantek: yeah, it was broken
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tantek it was implemented pragmatically ;)
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tantek you shipped :)
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barnabywalters tantek: yay positive reframing :)
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Loqi woot
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barnabywalters currently scanning more of my venue UI brainstorming stuff to stick on taproot/design
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tantek shipping is hugely positive
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barnabywalters tantek, aaronpk, tommorris: any thoughts on this as a venue UI? https://github.com/Taproot/design/blob/master/venue-ui.jpg
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tantek click
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tantek is this an ideal UI or what you think you can code quickly or somewhere in between?
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tantek my first impression - looks like a lot going on
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barnabywalters tantek: somewhere in between
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barnabywalters some parts are far-future (e.g. image gallery)
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tommorris barnabywalters: I'll have a look later. I'm currently mid-flow in working on an app for work that runs in a big blue silo. ;)
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barnabywalters tommorris: thanks — ah, what fun :)
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barnabywalters hah, my brain will now have a permanent s/facebook/big blue silo filter going
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tantek barnabywalters, consider: what's the minimum viable venue UI could you implement and start using to check-in via your website?
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tantek I'm going to suggest that you may find that once you design/implement that MVVUI and use it, by actual use in the wild you'll come up with a much more informed set of next-most-important-to-you features to implement.
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barnabywalters oh, this is separate to check in UI — this is venue permalink page, then I specced out a *really* minimal UI for adding venue checkin data to the note posing UI
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barnabywalters bbiab, off to some event (not entirely sure what)
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tantek.com created /design (+776) "capture a few thoughts on design and implementation" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - you done with your important email?
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tantek thinking about URL conversions when POSSEing
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tantek so the obvious one is the implicit in-reply-to change from original to POSSE copy when posting a POSSE copy to Twitter so that it can thread properly per http://indiewebcamp.com/comment#POSSE_a_comment
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tantek and some folks (aaronpk, barnabywalters?) convert URLs to people's personal sites to their @-names in POSSE copies as well
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tantek (though I don't know where we document that)
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tantek do any other URLs make sense
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tantek like if I post a note that refers to an earlier note of mine (a mention, not a reply), should I convert that mention of a note on my site, to URL of its POSSE copy, when I POSSE the new note?
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@t updated @cassisjs tw_text_proxy constants - easier/less work than writing new caching code per: http://tantek.com/2013/133/t1/indieweb-twitter-bumped-lengths-update-posse (ttk.me t4Q02)
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tantek cool. I used that post to test the code changes I made for the t.co URL length changes and it worked!
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@coda_quora RT @t: updated @cassisjs tw_text_proxy constants - easier/less work than writing new caching code per: http://tantek.com/2013/133/t1/indieweb-twitter-bumped-lengths-update-posse (ttk.me t4Q02)
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@Carloselcotize RT @t: updated @cassisjs tw_text_proxy constants - easier/less work than writing new caching code per: http://tantek.com/2013/133/t1/indieweb-twitter-bumped-lengths-update-posse (ttk.me t4Q02)
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tantek I'm at the Google+ Platform Overview talk at Google IO
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tantek if you have questions you want me to ask, add them to my Etherpad: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/googleio
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pdurbin can we just ask here? :)
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pdurbin when will Google+ comments get permalinks?
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pdurbin and this: http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/42169/how-can-i-see-the-people-i-know-in-suggested-google-communities
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@gravitydrift “@t: updated @cassisjs tw_text_proxy constants - easier/less work than writing new caching code per": http://tantek.com/2013/133/t1/indieweb-twitter-bumped-lengths-update-posse (ttk.me t4Q02)
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bret sounds like lots of disapointing g+ news from io
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pdurbin the new g+ desktop interface is a little... random
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bret why do they have to follow in FB's footsteps, rather than be an example?
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bret is it true that every silo'd social network thus far has failed?
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pdurbin bret: facebook and twitter haven't failed
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bret those are still in right now
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bret people are beginning to hate facebook in a bigger and bigger way, with much reason
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pdurbin as well they should
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bret twitter has already pissed a ton of people off, and shows no sign of slowing down
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bret so much so that we have a OG-twitter clone called app.net
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bret XD
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bret its only a matter of time before more people have the though "why are all these companies so interested in me socializing!?!? could this be one big tupperware party for advertisers?"
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pdurbin heh
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bret I can't wait till facebook is irrelevant, but honestly, I am a bit afraid of what would replace it
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pdurbin bret: dream a little. what do you want?
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bret Something that isnt taking the approach of apple, google, facebook. "just put all your eggs in a single basket, dont worry we will never fail you"
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bret what is this g+ desktop you are speaking of?
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pdurbin oh, vs. the android app, I mean
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bret wasnt the browser invented so that you DIDNT need a goddamn specific application to retreive information?
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bret from different sources
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pdurbin meh, I like apps
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bret for what though, they have their place, but I dont want an app for every website thats just insane
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pdurbin bret: I definitely agree with you about eggs and baskets. I think of it as vendor lock-in
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bret if you want to interface with your computers hardware to do some serious number crunching on your local hardware, apps are awsome
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bret but for retreiving information from someone else, I want to use the browser
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