#indieweb

2013-05-17

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@dave1010
@tomatbase good to see companies seeing the value in #OpenData. The next step is the #IndieWeb http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page ()
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eschnou
!tell aaronpk I never realised it was so easy to add a twitter card, this us über cool ! Will attempt to add storytlr cards in there...
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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xtof
working on design-fr. searching minimalism. first step on http://xtof.me any - feedback welcome here on irc via loqi or directly in the pad. thanks
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eschenal
lol app.net is now giving free account via the next web, if you fancy one (just to test POSSE to them of-course...) here it is: https://www.facebook.com/thenextweb?v=app_350243485053197
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aaronpk
!tell cweiske I'm building pingback.me for exactly that purpose: http://indiewebcamp.com/pingback.me
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Loqi
aaronpk: eschnou left you a message 7 hours ago: I never realised it was so easy to add a twitter card, this us über cool ! Will attempt to add storytlr cards in there...
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jessykate.com
edited /2013/Guest_List (+585) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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aaronpk
yeah!!
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aaronpk
eschnou: 1600 hits to my site yesterday!
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aaronpk
indiewebcamp got 1700!
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aaronpk
up from the average of like 50-60
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Loqi
cweiske: aaronpk left you a message 3 hours, 16 minutes ago: I'm building pingback.me for exactly that purpose: http://indiewebcamp.com/pingback.me
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cweiske
aaronpk, I also have something like that
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cweiske
wait. didn't publish it yet
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pdurbin
heh
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aaronpk
cool
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cweiske
stapibas, the standalone pingback server
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pdurbin
quite an increase :)
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cweiske
it sends a mail to me when I get one
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aaronpk
you're welcome to use pingback.me if you want, it has an API
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cweiske
but I need a tool that I can tell "hey, I've written a new blogpost. please ping everyone"
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cweiske
and it keeps track of who got noticed already and supports updates
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aaronpk
ah, that's not quite pingback
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aaronpk
that's more like PuSH
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cweiske
http://git.cweiske.de/stapibas.git/
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cweiske
aaronpk, it's pingback
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cweiske
because I want to send pingbacks to the URLs I linked in my blog post
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aaronpk
oh, that's not "everyone"
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aaronpk
thought you meant like subscribers of your blog
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cweiske
nono
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cweiske
I have an atom feed for that
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cweiske
no pubsubhubhub, but I don't care now
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eschnou
aaronpk, awesome ! glad it brought some visibility to this community.... my site got 30k+ uniques and quite a few comments
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cweiske
so pingback.me only receives pingback
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cweiske
s
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cweiske
seems I have to expand stapibas for my needs
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aaronpk
cweiske: it also receives webmentions now
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tantek
woot!
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Loqi
:D
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tantek
has anyone seen this on their Twitter account before? " New email address required. Twitter has removed the email address from your account, by request of the email owner. "
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aaronpk
whoa weird
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tantek
e.g. in a yellowish box at the top of twitter.com when you're logged in
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tantek
yeah it's kind of freaking me out
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aaronpk
but... aren't *you* the email owner?
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aaronpk
eschnou: wow this tweet is getting retweeted a bunch right now too https://twitter.com/twotribes/status/335007335493795843
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@twotribes
Google killing open protocols they once loved: ()
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Tantek.com * uploaded "[[File:2013-05-17-twitter-com-new-email-warning.png]]": Email identity related warning on Twitter: "New email address required. Twitter has removed the email address from your account, by request of the email owner. Please enter a new email address where you can be reached. Learn more › "
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aaronpk
tantek: wow yea, that's super sketchy
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tantek.com
edited /Twitter (+883) "add issues section with Email Identity Removal" (view diff)
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tantek
aaronpk - ok I just documented it publicly because if this is freaking me out - it's probably something that would freak other people out: http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Email_Identity_Removal
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aaronpk
yea, it's freaking me out just seeing the screenshot
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aaronpk
you should probably contact twitter support
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Loqi
definitely
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tantek
I'm posting it
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cweiske
what commenting system would you recommend for a static site, given that not all people have their own blog and can pingback?
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aaronpk
I've used Disqus and Facebook on my site in the past
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aaronpk
both are fine. Facebook tends to get more comments for me probably because everyone has an account and is always logged in
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cweiske
disqus doesn't work on my page
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cweiske
I'm using application/xhtml+xml as content type for my html pages, and disqus breaks because of this
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tantek
posted: http://tantek.com/2013/137/t3/scary-twitter-warning-removed-email-from-account
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aaronpk
eventually I decided the quality of comments I was getting wasn't high enough and I didn't actually care about peoples' random crap they were leaving on my site
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cweiske
contacted their support several times and they don't plan to support that
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tantek
aaronpk - perhaps create brief == For Comments == sections with your opinions on those two silos on the wiki?
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aaronpk
good thinking
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cweiske
I've got a "send me a coment" mail link on the bottom of each blog post
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tantek
cweiske's issue with disqus should be noted on the /Disqus page as well
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cweiske
the mails I get are very targeted and useful
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aaronpk
that's probably because they are email
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aaronpk
and not a public comment that is only barely tied to a person's identity or presence online
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cweiske
now I'm thinking about a mail server hook that automatically takes this mails and puts them as comments below my blog post
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cweiske
given that I have per-post comment mail addresses
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aaronpk
sure, but if people know it's going to be public I have a feeling the quality will change
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cweiske
even thought about doing that only when they are gpg-signed
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cweiske
and within 2 or 3 levels of my trusted gpg web
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aaronpk
there are any number of interesting technical solutions to this
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cweiske
but yes, comment quality would change
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tantek.com
edited /Twitter (+113) "/* Email Identity Removal */ No such warning on m.twitter.com equivalent" (view diff)
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aaronpk
i think the real challenge is to 1) figure out what you really want in terms of feedback on your articles, 2) figure out how to craft an experience that achieves that goal, then finally 3) figure out the tech to make that happen
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tantek
so no one has seen this Twitter warning then - damn.
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aaronpk
what does the "learn more" link to?
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cweiske
tantek, password reset on microformats.org still does not work
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tantek
aaronpk - I linked up the blockquote of the text on the wiki.
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aaronpk
oh cool
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tantek
cweiske let me try again
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tantek
cweiske - darn it - still getting a weird MediaWiki DB access error (can I just say I hate DB-based hosting code? seriously, too many moving parts, not enough documentation)
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tantek
the mediawiki documentation is useless for troubleshooting: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:ChangePassword.php
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cweiske
mediawiki has in-built password recovery
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cweiske
wiki/Special:PasswordReset
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cweiske
but that's not available on mf.org
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cweiske
you don't need a changepassword.php
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tantek
maybe it's in a new version? not sure why it's not on microformats.org
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cweiske
no. it's been there since ages
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tommorris
http://microformats.org/wiki/Special:Version looks rather odd
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tommorris
microformats.org wiki is ridiculously old btw
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tommorris
1.13 - current version is 1.22
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tantek
cweiske - the script is there for admins to manually reset pw
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aaronpk
fsvo "ridiculous"
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tantek
it's just that the MediaWiki ChangePassword.php is failing with an error not documented by the MediaWiki Manual page on ChangePassword.php
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tantek
fsvo?
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aaronpk
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FSVO
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tantek
tommorris - how do I fix http://microformats.org/wiki/Special:Version ?
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tantek
aaronpk - hah!
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tommorris
tantek: well, the HTML is all weird. ;) shoudl be like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Version
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tantek
tommorris - benward has been maintaining our MediaWiki install - will try pinging him.
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tommorris
look at the <title>
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tantek
tommorris - I have no idea how to edit that page
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tantek
so once again, how do I fix it?
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tantek
URL to docs?
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tantek
(have tried googling, fruitlessly)
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tommorris
not sure - I'd suggest the best way to do it is to do a diff between microormats.org wiki and the old version of MW
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tommorris
see what's different between the two, then we can see what the likely cause of the problems are
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tantek
thanks tommorris, captured: http://microformats.org/wiki/admin-to-do#wiki_problems (and please feel free to add more suggestions there - I'm stuck on all those problems and can't figure out how to make further progress)
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tantek
(we can move this conversation #microformats also)
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tantek
(I should have asked cweiske to do that at the start, my bad)
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aaronpk
mediawiki is nice, but man it's a PITA to maintain and upgrade
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tantek
ok, posted a cropped screenshot to IG also linking to my post - hoping someone sees it and has a clue
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aaronpk
you proabbly should email twitter support too
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tantek
yea - since they're the highest latency, I'm delaying that til last
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tantek
prioritizing higher latency communications over lower latency expectations
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aaronpk
ah
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tantek
apparently I'm not the only one affected by the Twitter warning box: https://twitter.com/rk/status/335504675950448640
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@rk
@sampullara its not just @t that's effected ()
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aaronpk
there we go
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aaronpk
although I keep cringing at the wrong "effected" every time I read that sentence
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tantek
here's what I'm wondering - gmail has likely been updated this week (due to features announced/launched at #googleio)
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aaronpk
that reminds me... I should refresh my gmail tab
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tantek
it's *possible* that someone may have added code to gmail to follow/precache some links in emails
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tantek
if that's the case, then any links in an email that "do something" simply upon being retrieved may be being activated when people view messages
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aaronpk
that seems like such a terrible idea given the number of email lists that have "instant unsubscribe" links in them
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aaronpk
gmail of all people should know that
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tommorris
I've just installed Google Analytics on tommorris.org - because people keep telling me lots of people read my site and I don't quite believe them.
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tantek
could also be Safari
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tommorris
anybody got more indieweb-compliant approaches to analytics?
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tantek
precaching some links
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aaronpk
tommorris: you didn't have that before? all the hackernews traffic!
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aaronpk
tommorris: if you want to run your own, try piwik
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aaronpk
but then you have to run your own
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tommorris
aaronpk: jI don't like JS dependencies. ;)
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tantek
tommorris - erinjo has done the most research / installation that I know of in terms of indieweb analytics solutions
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aaronpk
ahh, well in that case, good ol apache log analyzers would do the trick
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tommorris
heh, i use nginx ;)
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aaronpk
same thing
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aaronpk
what was it... webalyzer or something?
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tommorris
I'll stil with GA. Analytics don't matter to me enough to do it myself.
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tommorris
it's just nice to get some idea how many people actually read my site. ;)
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tantek
tommorris - perhaps ask erinjo a q about indieweb analytics via !tell - she pops in here reasonably often.
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aaronpk
my take on it is if my identity is not dependent on it, then i'm ok outsourcing
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tommorris
I'll check the IRC archives at some point
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tommorris
and GA actually lets you specify who you are comfortable sharing your site's stats with (my answer: nobody)
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aaronpk
also try: https://www.google.com/search?q=analytics+site%3Aindiewebcamp.com%2Firc
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tommorris
GA real-time is quite nice.
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tommorris
if only I had the same privacy controls in Google as I do in Google Analytics...
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aaronpk
footer of twitter emails has "If you received this message in error and did not sign up for Twitter, click not my account."
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tantek
aaronpk - indeed
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tantek
I'm wondering now if gmail is crawling some URLs
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aaronpk
that would be super sketchy
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tantek
any "get" related action page navigated from email should have some confirmation UI on it
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tantek
in a POST form
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tantek
that's all you should have to do to prevent the problem of accidental caching/crawling of such links
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aaronpk
that would make sense. the interesting thing is this trend of "unsubscribe instantly" links
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aaronpk
they literally do unsubscribe you instantly
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tantek
indeed - though I think people would be more ok with just being unsubscribed from a bunch of crap ;)
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tantek
and the email marketers would figure out they needed to add a confirmation button
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tantek
(some already have confirmation buttons)
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aaronpk
with the new crazy gmail action things you could even embed an unsubscribe button directly in the email :)
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tantek
aaronpk - and it would only work in gmail
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tantek
whereas URLs, hyperlinks, work in any email client that auto-links URLs or supports HTML email
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aaronpk
that doesn't seem to be stopping google :)
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tantek
sure, Google innovating with proprietary gmail-only extensions to HTML? why not?
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tantek
at least email is a bit of a sandbox for testing proprietary HTML extensions
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tantek
better than releasing such proprietary things on the open web
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aaronpk
I like how my joke mockup all of a sudden became much more likely
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aaronpk
https://twitter.com/stevenf/status/335519758768300032
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@stevenf
What’s most scary to me about this mocked-up screenshot is its complete plausibility: http://t.co/32LecuLG0v ()
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tantek.com
edited /Twitter (+187) "/* Email Identity Removal */ related posts" (view diff)
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tantek
aaronpk - do these UX recommendations make sense to you? http://tantek.com/2013/137/b1/ux-learn-more-links-warning-boxes-three-things
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tantek
(figuring this is a teachable moment)
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aaronpk
definitely, I totally agree
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tantek
awesome
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tantek
aaronpk - re: plausibility of your screenshot, looks like it's time to start mocking up some buttons
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tantek
remember the "best viewed in … browser" buttons?
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aaronpk
aahaha
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tantek
This email is ( Best Viewed in Gmailâ„¢ )
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tantek
so folks using the new gmail action/activity features can put those buttons in the bottom of their emails
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aaronpk
yay it's like 1999 again!
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Loqi
does a happy dance!
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tantek
I bet if you do it as a joke and blog it, the email marketers that start using the gmail features will start using it
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aaronpk
HAH! I should put some sort of easter egg in the image so I can tell if it shows up later
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tantek
aaronpk - TOTALLY
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tantek
related: https://plus.google.com/114572384791837115892/posts/1tMtdNmdJn7
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aaronpk
nice
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aaronpk
ok totally doing that tonight after I get home
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tantek
nice
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aaronpk
oh did you see this? https://twitter.com/GromNaN/status/322372863732621312 (works on mobile too http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/8747063314/in/photostream)
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@GromNaN
OAuth 2 Simplified ()
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tantek
aaronpk - nice! from last year?!?
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tantek
how's the book coming?
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aaronpk
i was referring to the twitter cards for my content :)
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aaronpk
but the book is about 55% written, shooting for finishing it in July
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tantek
aaronpk - oh man - I have to scroll your view source just to get to the <body>
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tantek
look at all that meta-crap! :P
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aaronpk
haha
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aaronpk
yea :(
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aaronpk
pingback/webmention + css + apple icon + facebook meta + twitter meta + google analytics + facebook JS
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tantek
seems to me like we should instead figure out how FB, Twitter can imply their OG/Twitter Cards semantics from visible microformats on the page
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tantek
and then write-up some draft pseudo-code for them or something
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aaronpk
the new h-entry format lends itself well to that
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tantek
yeah? could you use that post as an example?
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aaronpk
they all pretty much want the same thing: title, summary, image, author
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tantek
e.g. showing all the stuff that can be parsed from the h-entry anyway
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tantek
making the meta og/twitter stuff unnecessary?
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tantek
then we can write-up a document on
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tantek
how to consume h-entry and display a link summary/preview or a post "card"
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aaronpk
the one thing is that I usually don't put a visible summary of the article on the article page
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tantek
nor do you in the meta currently
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aaronpk
and the first paragraph of the content is not always appropriate as a summary
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tantek
you're just re-using the title
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tantek
so you can do that too
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tantek
"p-name p-summary"
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aaronpk
for notes it's just the title, but articles sometimes have a different sumary
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tantek
well in that article it *is* just the first paragraph
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tantek
so might as well do that
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tantek
or the first two sentences
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aaronpk
but yea because I'm generating the facebook/twitter meta tags from my original content, it usually ends up being the same data that generatses the HTML markup
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tantek
that might work better in case your first paragraph is too long
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tantek
right!
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tantek
so let's figure that out
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tantek
and then you can do a before/after blog post
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tantek
like before: here's all the duplicate meta crap that's in my posts right now, because FB, Twitter, etc. don't support open standards and are all making up their own proprietary extensions
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aaronpk
things that are unique to facebook/twitter: facebook admin IDs (can be done with html links probably), twitter username (again can be done with html link), twitter site account (usually the org's twitter account)
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aaronpk
the rest is duplicated
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aaronpk
ok now I have two things on my list for tonight :)
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tantek
and then after: I'm tired of adding (insert #) page weight of invisible proprietary markup to all my posts - I've dropped them and making an open plea for FB, Twitter etc. to PLEASE SUPPORT OPEN STANDARDS (even in addition to their proprietary stuff if they really want to keep that)
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tantek
maybe leave a week or so between
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tantek
enough for the first "before" post to get hyped on HN etc.
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tantek
making fun of how these companies are "making" you bloat your page with duplicate content
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tantek
wait for all the peanut gallery HN comments etc. all mocking it
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tantek
then the follow-up after post can cite all that ;)
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aaronpk
nice
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aaronpk
I do like the mass "in reply to" follow-up article
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tantek
exactly
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tantek
very similar to what you did with app.net
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tantek
that seemed to work quite well
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aaronpk
i thought so
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aaronpk
heh, just googled "html is my api" and got this as the top result http://tantek.com/2013/030/t1/html-my-api-xml-died-microformats-live-give-json
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