#indiewebcamp 2013-05-30

2013-05-30 UTC
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@sandeepshetty
@shawndrape the #indieweb (statistical) mode will be small no. of followers. Poll will work just fine.
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tantek
the path sandeepshetty is taking is fine. minimal implementation based on polling, then he can assess later whether he needs/wants PuSH or not
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tantek
whether any one of us agrees or not, doesn't matter, it's part of the strength of the indieweb, each implementer decides for themselves what approach to prioritize
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tantek
in contrast to monocultures
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tantek
ok so for comics posts
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tantek
I'm thinking they resemble articles since they typically have a name
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tantek
at least XKCD style
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tantek
and I'm thinking of putting the whole thing in an <object>
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tantek
and having the fallback heading etc. in the <object>
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tantek
so it'll be a special kind of article - we'll see how much I have to change my CSS to make this work
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tantek
but I'm reusing the "a" shortcode for it
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tantek
er, I mean "b". ahem.
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bret
not to bag on facebook more but... screw it lets: https://medium.com/a-programmers-tale/f7b8c66109ea
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bret
although, going through the comments makes me frown. Lots of "twitter is still good, lets fail to realize the bigger issue here"
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bret
as if twitter is going to a) ever going to have as big of an impact as FB, and b) not be susceptible to all of the same problems
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pdurbin
twitter used to be great. facebook never was
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bret
facebook used to be okay when it was highschool and college
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bret
seemingly
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pdurbin
I was out of college already when facebook was just college
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bret
in retrospect, given what it turned into though, i see that this was a drastic illusion and mistake us kids made in promoting it
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bret
oh well oops
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tantek
well one distinction I've found between a comic and an article is that I don't want to display an explicit <h1> heading before a comic - since the comic has the heading built into the image
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tantek
so I'm going to use h-as-article h-as-comic
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cweiske
what about a hidden topic?
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cweiske
because the image is not easily machine-readable
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tantek
cweiske - hence I'm using <object> for the image with text fallback inside
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tantek
but in this case I may be able to simply query the entry-title node to see if it has an entry-content ancestor
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tantek
and if so - to not duplicate it in its own h1 outside the entry-content
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tantek
e.g. in a stream context
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@xtof_fr
Inspiration /by @anthere - stratégie #indieweb
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tantek
my first comic post:
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tantek
with full fallback text markup also
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tantek
which apparently gets used by some aggregators - such as Planet Mozilla!
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cweiske
i think mozilla doesn't like images in objects
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tantek
cweiske - planet?
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tantek
works fine in Firefox
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cweiske
on planet I see the text only
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cweiske
not the image
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cweiske
as on your page
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tantek
right, that was my point
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cweiske
so why does planet not show the image?
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cweiske
your feed does not have the image
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cweiske
why do you have a planet namespace in your feed?
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cweiske
what is it good for?
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tantek
no my feed does have the image
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tantek
view source on it
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cweiske
ah. wrong feed :/
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tantek
looks like planet indiscriminately strips objects - which is too bad
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tantek
it should at least allow the usual multimedia set - images, video, audio
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tantek.com
edited /posts (+13) "tommorris is publishing checkins on his own site. plus, comics!"
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tantek.com
created /comics (+2112) "stub comics with a real world example - let's see where this goes"
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tantek.com
created /comic (+20) "r"
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tantek
and there you have it
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eschnou
!tell aaronpk Got an idea, in the case of barnaby replying to my comment, since my comment is already linking to yours (in-reply-to), I could just 'ping' the master post again, and up to you to reload it and scan its comments.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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eschnou
tantek, you have a bright future in doing xkcd comics :-)
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tantek
eschnou - you're too kind
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tantek
it helps to have a source of inspiration
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tantek
(btw - that's my first attempt at hand drawing a comic in XKCD style - so don't judge too harshly ;) )
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tantek
(and I don't really consider myself a "drawing" person though I want to be)
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tantek
(still I thought it was decent - with a bit of practice I might even avoid erasures - had a few this time)
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eschnou
tantek, well, as in all xkcd, I don't think the drawing part matters much, the underlying references are the interestingbit
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tantek
eschnou - there's something very emotionally endearing about the simplicity and subtlety of the XKCD characters and how they're drawn
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tantek
I tried to incorporate that
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eschnou
tantek, true
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tantek
I'm just going to number them according to ISO Ordinal date
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eschnou
tantek, on the wiki, how do I add my 'signature' to a comment I make? Manually?
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eschnou
tantek, ok, found the button :-)
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tantek
eschnou - ~~~ for just username linked, and ~~~~ for dated signature upon save
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eschnou
tantek, in pingback/webmention, have we already described an 'update' flow ? E.g. I would re-ping someone when the content of a reply has been changed?
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eschnou.com
edited /comment-notifications (+311) "/* Option 2. Webmention */"
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tantek
eschnou - not as far as I know
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tantek
hmm - it appears my object code is broken in Safari desktop but works on mobile?
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tantek
interesting, Safari desktop doesn't like <object type="image/jpg"> but is ok with <object type="image/jpeg">
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tantek
ok fixed
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tantek
good morning barnaby
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barnabywalters
morning tantek
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barnabywalters
was looking at yesterdays logs over breakfast — lots of interesting stuff in there
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barnabywalters
and came up with some further ideas about HTML-enabled PuSH alternative — non-feed use cases
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barnabywalters
such as updated contact info/XFN data
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tantek
yes! real-time hCard updates!
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barnabywalters
PuSH is overcomplicated AND limited only to chronological feed updates
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barnabywalters
I suspect there is a fairly simple solution which can be used for any content
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barnabywalters
essentially:
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barnabywalters
subscriber: Tell me when this URL is updated
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barnabywalters
and the hub is there to provide async and load relief for the publisher
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barnabywalters
flow for the publisher has to stay as simple as it is currently
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cweiske
barnabywalters, you can have a push feed for a single file only
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cweiske
and thus notify about file updates
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barnabywalters
cweiske: interesting, never saw that documented — link?
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cweiske
that's intrinsic to atom
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cweiske
just update the updated field
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cweiske
just one entry in the feed
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barnabywalters
that forces me to frame non-feed content as a feed
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cweiske
you don't need to include the content in the feed
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cweiske
you can use the feed just as update notification medium
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cweiske
just as pingback notifies about referencing
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barnabywalters
so what I’m describing is possible right now — great
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barnabywalters
all the other problems still remain :)
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barnabywalters
duplication
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barnabywalters
DRY-violation
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barnabywalters
complexity for subscribers
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tantek
barnabywalters - what happens if the given URL is just HTML instead of Atom? Why does that break?
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tantek
we need to get Brett Slatkin here - he was at IndieWebCamp 2012
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tantek
in other news...
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barnabywalters
I’ve actually never tried it — partly because PuSH is so difficult to test
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tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+614) "Simple comics support added, because, well, I had a comic to post. So implemented it."
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tantek
barnabywalters - I'm convinced a comic strip post is similar to but different in important ways from each of: article, note, photo
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cweiske
barnabywalters, http://p.cweiske.de/44 is a minimal atom feed for update notifications
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cweiske
you'd just update the <updated> tag when it changes
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cweiske
and notify the push subscribers/hubs
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barnabywalters
cweiske: is this something you’re actively publishing? the link in the XML is broken
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cweiske
it's an example I just made for you
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barnabywalters
cool, thanks
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barnabywalters
my beef with this approach is that the last-updated semantic can be embedded into *any* content delivered over HTTP via the Last-modified header
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barnabywalters
so it’s great to see an example of how this could be implemented with current tech
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cweiske
barnabywalters, the hub can of course just do a HEAD request
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cweiske
to see the last-modified date
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barnabywalters
tantek RE the comic type: fascintating
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cweiske
that's possible right now
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barnabywalters
cweiske: so, is it possible right now to do this with PuSH *without* the content duplication, then?
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tantek
barnabywalters - we should be able to extend PuSH to handle HTML quite easily
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cweiske
barnabywalters, no, that's different from push
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cweiske
which relies on atom
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cweiske
that'd be a totally simple hub:
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tantek
all we have spec is the discovery of rel=hub directly from the HTML
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cweiske
subscribe to the hub via "PUT /subscribe" and data of URL and return callback url
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barnabywalters
my thoughts on implementing this: a PuSH implementation which doesn’t care about the body content, only HTTP headers
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cweiske
unsubscribe with DELETE
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cweiske
and the hub calls the callback url when something changes
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barnabywalters
cweiske: sounds great, we’ve got enough here to start documenting it on the wiki
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cweiske
now how to notify the hub? the hub could poll via HEAD requests
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barnabywalters
cweiske: I’m comfortable with the current PuSH publisher flow
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cweiske
or get notified with a HTTP POST
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barnabywalters
of active publisher POSTs and periodic hub polling to cover any they miss
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barnabywalters
this would cover the comment feed notification use case
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barnabywalters
because it moves the parsing smarts to the subscriber
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barnabywalters
ideally the hub shouldn’t parse anything apart from HTTP headers
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barnabywalters
good wiki page title for this?
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barnabywalters
push-notifications
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cweiske
it should be as cool and unpronouncable as Pubsubhubhub
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@lentremetteur
RT @xtof_fr: Inspiration /by @anthere - stratégie #indieweb
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cweiske
SimPubsubhubhub
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barnabywalters
not interested in naming right now, just topic name for brainstorming
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barnabywalters
push-notifications implies UI elements too much so I’ll go pubsub for the moment
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tommorris
ooh, I spotted @anthere above. ;)
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tommorris
she's an awesome french wikipedian.
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barnabywalters
morning tommorris
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tommorris
hey barnabywalters
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tommorris
I have detected a new way to look into the madness of the world: Google Analytics Organic Search Traffic page
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tantek
good morning tommorris
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tommorris
hey tantek
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tantek
pardon my heternormative comic post
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tommorris
oh no, that's fine. ;)
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tantek
FWIW - I do think I've found a new post type - at least as far as the presentation I want is concerned
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tantek
barnabywalters - consider documenting your pubsubhubbub brainstorms in a section by that name on the page: http://indiewebcamp.com/PubSubHubbub
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barnabywalters
tantek: currently half way through writing /pubsub
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tommorris
webhooks always seemed to be the sanest, simplest way of building pubsub
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tantek
agreed
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barnabywalters
one pattern I am seeing emerge from webmention and now this is: people on the web disagree about everything apart from HTTP. Use it.
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tommorris
barnabywalters: no, no, people disagree about HTTP too - see SPDY
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barnabywalters
tommorris: well yes, but not nearly as much ;)
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barnabywalters
e.g. ATOM vs HTML vs JSON vs HYPER-MAGIC-FORMAT-X
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barnabywalters
all served via HTTP
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barnabywalters
unless you’re a SPDY nut
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barnabywalters
(not that that’s a bad thing)
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barnabywalters
s/nut/enthusiast
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tommorris
this is why I think of myself as a pragmatic RDF enthusiast. I'll go with what works even if I have SemWebbish preferences. ;)
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tantek
barnabywalters - the HTML vs everything else is just shortsighted lazy programmers tunnelvision optimizing the wrong problems.
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tantek
exception: when you're optimizing for user-input of textish info, markdown appears to provide some good tradeoffs for some folks.
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tantek
but yeah, optimizing for parsers, or making up your own tags - makes no sense
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waterpigs.co.uk
created /pubsub (+2729) "Created with dump of brainstorming from IRC"
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barnabywalters
^ created, please read and comment
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cweiske
two people came from webmention.org to my trackback archive page
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barnabywalters
I actually can’t believe that apart from PuSH there’s no accepted way to monitor changes to a webpage other than polling
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barnabywalters
s/webpage/url
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Loqi
barnabywalters meant to say: I actually can’t believe that apart from PuSH there’s no accepted way to monitor changes to a url other than polling
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tantek
barnabywalters - will do - will review when I've gotten some sleep
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tantek
in the meantime would appreciate your and tommorris's evaluation/opinions on the comics post type - am I nuts or does this make some sense? http://indiewebcamp.com/comics
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barnabywalters
tantek: it’s three in the morning in SF now, huh? no problem :)
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tommorris
seems reasonable enough, although I'd suggest seeing if any webcomic publishers are doing anything that could be nicked.
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tommorris
wields the Microformats Sword of Process. ;)
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barnabywalters
+1 seems reasonable
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barnabywalters
there are some interesting webcomic publishing practises out there
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barnabywalters
such as crowdsourcing transcriptions
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@xtof_fr
@Fitbit_FR pas de quoi ;)
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tantek
tommorris - I looked - existing webcomic markup is somewhere between crap and sloppy.
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tommorris
oh yeah, I had a request to translate one of my posts about RDF into Serbian or somethign the other day
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tantek
so bad as to not be worth documenting
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tantek
real world webcomics that is
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tantek
there were a couple of hypotheticals that took similar approaches - but didn't really cover the depth of a real world example
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tantek
so that being said
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tantek
feel free to tear apart the markup I'm using and make suggestions for improvements
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tantek
it was a fairly quick first semantic pass - and I was happy it turned out well when apparently the Planet Mozilla aggregator ditched the object and took the fallback markup alternate
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barnabywalters
tantek: reeder did too
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cweiske
barnabywalters, how do you want to tell people about the hub?
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cweiske
http header?
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barnabywalters
cweiske: header/<link> element
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cweiske
just like pingback does to announce the PB url
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barnabywalters
even better might be a visible <a> element
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barnabywalters
and then the hub has some kind of UI
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barnabywalters
cweiske: exactly
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barnabywalters
that’s worked well enough — element is easy to add, header means less parsing and content-agnosticism for more advanced user
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@BarnabyWalters
Specced out improvements to #pubsubhubbub after use-case-driven discussion in #indiewebcamp: http://t.co/PE3xrXgvkZ… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1474/
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barnabywalters
tantek: safari is a bit weird about that <object> element — no right click or drag
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barnabywalters
hover text works though
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barnabywalters
tantek: testing reading using voiceover on mac safari results in object title text being read instead of fallback content
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@eschnou
@julien51 We need you :-) RT @BarnabyWalters: Specced out improvements to #PuSH after discussion in #indiewebcamp http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1474/
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@unhosted
RT @BarnabyWalters: Specced out improvements to #pubsubhubbub after use-case-driven discussion in #indiewebcamp: http://t.co/PE3xrXgvkZ… ht…
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michielbdejong
tommorris: that brings up an interesting distinction between federating identity providers and federating sso platforms. because Amazon is much more a payment platform than an identity provider.
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tommorris
indeed.
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michielbdejong
the relevance being, if facebook, google and amazon were to replace their login+checkout buttons with a federated nascar or whatever
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michielbdejong
then i still couldn't indie-participate
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michielbdejong
unless i implement a hypothethical Michiel-Checkout service
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michielbdejong
so this problem seems to run even deeper than the one openid solved/tried to solve
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michielbdejong
eschnou: you have offered storytlr hosting in the past, right? was there a lot of interest?
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eschnou
michielbdejong, well, storytlr started a typical web 2.0 'silo', it was closed source, and offered for free on storytlr.com
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eschnou
michielbdejong, and yes, we had coverage on all mainstream blogs and +20k users
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michielbdejong
i'm installing it now on my own server
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michielbdejong
i think i should offer either storytlr or wordpress
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eschnou
michielbdejong, cool! ping me if issues!!
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michielbdejong
as part of my non-profit hosting provider :)
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michielbdejong
will do! :)
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michielbdejong
i'm starting a "fake" TLD btw, a bit like www.eu.org, but this one will be *.un.ht
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eschnou
nice :-)
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tommorris
if the TLD .gay gets approved, I'm registering not.gay and redirecting it to the latest family values crusader who gets caught with a wide stance in an airport lavatory
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michielbdejong
i don't have the money for an icann-approved TLD, but we can just run a registry and a first registrar, conforming to all the best practices, and it will be almost the same.
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michielbdejong
only downside is not only the US government, but because of the .ht dependency, also the Haiti government could shut us down whenever they want. and there is no dnssec on .ht, but i don't think anybody needs that in practice.
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michielbdejong
and if we run the registry as well as, or better than, existing TLDs, then people will be able to get their own domain name as easily as signing up for facebook (i.e., without having to pay money)
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michielbdejong
they would only need to pay if they want their domain name under an icann-approved TLD
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tantek
scrolls up
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aaronpk
hello scrollback
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Loqi
aaronpk: eschnou left you a message 8 hours, 12 minutes ago: Got an idea, in the case of barnaby replying to my comment, since my comment is already linking to yours (in-reply-to), I could just 'ping' the master post again, and up to you to reload it and scan its comments.
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aaronpk
oh yea, that might work
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aaronpk
that means if barnaby replies to you, he pings you, then you ping me
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aaronpk
how far down the chain can that work before it becomes unrealistic to send all the pings?
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aaronpk
or does it sufficiently distribute the responsibility of the pings so it's actually better overall?
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brennannovak.com
edited /monoculture (+1104) "/* See Also */"
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brennannovak.com
edited /monoculture (-19) "/* Communities Design */"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Main_Page (+227) "/* Where */ Venue is Elemental Technologies!"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2013 (+45) "add venue"
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aaronpk
!tell tantek I don't think I have access to update the plancast event, can you add the new venue information? http://plancast.com/p/hhdw
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2013 (+1) "/* IndieWebCamp 2013 */"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2013 (+14) "/* to-do */"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Main_Page (+72) "/* IndieWebCamp 2013 */"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2013/Guest_List (+72) "/* Event */"
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Loqi
tantek: aaronpk left you a message 33 minutes ago: I don't think I have access to update the plancast event, can you add the new venue information? http://plancast.com/p/hhdw
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tantek
ooh location!
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tantek.com
edited /monoculture (+589) "move Communities Design to Monoculture Community as another set of examples, disagree re: project-specific community"
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tantek
aaronpk - do you not have the login for the @indiewebcamp twitter?
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tantek
because as long as you do - you just have to sign into that, and then sign into plancast using Twitter.
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tantek
so Brennan Novak recently wrote "Having a vibrant developer / user community is a downright necessity with fledgling open source projects. " and having thought quickly about it - I realized that we're kind of an exception to that here - since we have several projects which DO NOT have their own "vibrant developer / user community"
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tantek
am I missing something?
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tantek
posit: having 1+ creator selfdogfooding on an open source project is more important than any/all community around it. what do folks here think? can you think of any exceptions?
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aaronpk
I think there's a difference between what brennan is talking about, an open source project, and what we're all building here. very few of our sites are open source projects, although we've made various components of them open source
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aaronpk
for the components that are open source, it's important to have a community around them
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benwerd
I do think dogfooding is more important, at least in the early stages - many useful open source projects have a relatively small contributing outside community, and so a huge amount of value is drawn from the core developer or team's use of the product. Of course, when a community does arise, they are almost always users (or prospective users), too.
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benwerd
(My 2c.)
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sandeep.shetty.in
created /push-vs-pull (+1730) "converted my intuition into some concrete points"
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aaronpk
sandeepshetty: good notes on push vs pull
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aaronpk
i also want to point out somehow that pubsub can be done as a service, which is where the business-models pages comes in again
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aaronpk
so it can still work with static sites
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sandeepshetty
you mean the subscribers site right?
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aaronpk
also the publishers
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sandeepshetty
yep but I was focusing on the subscriber...
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sandeepshetty
with PuSH subscribers can't be static
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sandeepshetty
or offline...
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aaronpk
yea, those are good points
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sandeep.shetty.in
edited /push-vs-pull (+0) "/* Notes */"
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@sandeepshetty
Some of my notes on Push vs Pull for #indieweb http://indiewebcamp.com/push-vs-pull #indieweb
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sandeepshetty
over and out.
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@sandeepshetty
@superfeedr My guess is that following or being followed by thousands will be the exception on the #indieweb
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tantek
nicely done sandeepshetty - thanks for putting your notes on the wiki and tweeting out URLs :)
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tantek.com
edited /push-vs-pull (+47) "see also"
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@sandeepshetty
@julien51 I've added some notes here http://indiewebcamp.com/push-vs-pull would love to have a detailed discussion (over email?)
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tantek
hah - email? forget it
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tantek
@julien51 - if you can get on Twitter, you can get on IRC and discuss much more efficiently there (than on Twitter or Email)
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tommorris
just had a fun and interesting debate about indieweb with a guy at gaygeeks.
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aaronpk
I don't think he's going to see that
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aaronpk
although I could make Loqi tweet out mentions of @usernames from IRC
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tantek
aaronpk - I figure he's polling all kinds of feeds ;)
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Loqi
who, me?
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tantek
oh man that would be awesome
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tantek
especially if Loqi had some knowledge of IRC nickname -> Twitter handle
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tommorris
I showed off Ferocity on my phone but the guy was unconvinced that we were going to destroy Facebook. I sort of pointed out that our criteria for success isn't "beating" Facebook but building a viable and sustainable alternative to social networking silos that you can come and join if you want to.
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tantek
aaronpk - I got it
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aaronpk
I could probably come up with a way to get loqi to auth peopel with indieauth
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aaronpk
then I can follow a link from their home page to their twitter account
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tantek
Loqi could lookup an IRC handle on http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people - look at the link for the user's domain, and then look for a rel-me to twitter.com
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tantek
no need to do any authing
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@sandeepshetty
@julien51 Actually scratch that. Join us on IRC http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC
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aaronpk
only slightly susceptible to attacks
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tommorris
with reference to Richard Dawkins' analogy of 'Mount Improbable' - that beating Facebook by building a better but open Facebook (like Diaspora) was like climbing a very steep cliff
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aaronpk
sandeepshetty yay!
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tommorris
you need to do *some* auth
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Loqi
yay!
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tantek
yay! sandeepshetty is reading IRC :)
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Loqi
does a happy dance!
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barnabywaters
Hello, I'm barnaby.
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tommorris
Actually, I'm Tom.
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tantek
can Loqi see if a user is signed in with nick services?
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jimmywales
I'm a whale.
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aaronpk
whois tommorris
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tommorris
you need to check their hostmask
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tantek
aaronpk, you may need to /msg NickServ
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tantek
try /msg NickServ help
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aaronpk
forgot the "/"
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tommorris
so mine is tom@wikimedia/Tom-Morris
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aaronpk
hm yes nickserv seems to know about you
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tantek
aaronpk - you could do it for only people who have signed in with NickServ
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tommorris
and if I'm signed in with that on Freenode, you know you are talking to the real tommorris.
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aaronpk
"/msg NickServ INFO tommorris"
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tommorris
and it is used for authentication for private channels like #wikipedia-en-admins
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aaronpk
although this is not the auth you are looking for
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aaronpk
unless we care about who is able to tweet out from Loqi
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tantek
might as well just check to see if they are their nickserv identity or not
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tommorris
I'd recommend getting a hostmask if you hang about on IRC much or use it for anything importance
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aaronpk
but really we're more interested in when tantek says "@tommorris" which twitter username does that correspond to
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tommorris
it hides your IP address too.
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aaronpk
tommorris: how do you do that?
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tommorris
aaronpk: preventing twitter spam is pretty desirable too. ;)
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tantek
aaronpk - I think the "@" means it *is* a twitter name
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aaronpk
so then we don't need any lookup?
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tantek
e.g. I said "aaronpk" above, not "@aaronpk"
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tantek
correct
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tommorris
aaronpk: different organisations give them out. I got mine through Wikimedia's IRC people - they give 'em out to any reasonably active Wikipedian
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tantek
IRC custom is to already use nicknames WITHOUT @
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aaronpk
or did you want Loqi to say something like "@sandeepshetty: You are being summonned on IRC by @t"
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tantek
so if there IS an @ - assume it's a twitter name
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tantek
aaronpk - just use the same syntax as !tell
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tommorris
there's a process of getting one that's not affiliated to a project. you get unaffiliated/tantek rather than Wikimedia/Tom-Morris
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aaronpk
in which case we need to know tantek's twitter name and know that tantek in IRC actually is tantek
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tantek
"not affiliated with a project" - meh - who made "projects" the gatekeepers of identity? what a load of crap.
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tommorris
anyway, barroom conversation: I ended up explaining that solving our own problems means we can make sustainable progress rather than attempting to create a clean-room open source FB
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tantek
aaronpk - let me restate what I said
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tantek
1. verify nickname is logged in via nickserv
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tantek
3. get the domain from the hyperlink
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tantek
4. get their twitter handle from a rel=me link from that domain to twitter.com
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tantek
if you're really paranoid you can make sure their twitter points back to their domain
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tommorris
guy didn't end up buying it - it was difficult to get past the if-you-don't-replace-facebook-you've-failed thing.
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tommorris
because "people will just use facebook".
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tantek
tommorris - that's fine, those people also used AOL back in the day and said the same thing
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tantek
"if you haven't replaced AOL you've failed" - whatever
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tantek
trivially flawed methodology
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tommorris
yep, and MySpace and MSN/AOL/Yahoo IM
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tantek
bingo
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tommorris
and friendster and flickr and so on
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tantek
just tell him he's welcome to go on being a sharecropper
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aaronpk
tantek: yes i'm good on steps 1-4. I am now unsure what your thought is for the tweet text
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tantek
!tell aaronpk just do it like this.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tommorris
the problem with trying to out-facebook facebook is a single individuals can't compete in the same way that a company can
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tantek
now say something aaronpk
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 24 seconds ago: just do it like this.
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aaronpk
but what should the *tweet* be
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tantek
@aaronpk: @t left you a message 24 seconds ago: just do it like this.
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aaronpk
the point is to ping someone via twitter so that they know there's a message for them on IRC
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aaronpk
there won't be a delay
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tommorris
the analogy I ended up using was house building. the people who build their own houses haven't failed if other people don't live in them. and sharing house-building-practices means other people can join in
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tantek
@aaronpk: @t wanted me to tell you: just do it like this.
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tantek
better:
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tantek
@aaronpk: @t wanted me to tell you: just do it like this. … http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-05-30#t1369951235
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tantek
so Loqi just tweets out the @-to: @-from "wanted me to tell you:" ellipsed-message-to-fit permalink-to-IRC-log where @-from referenced @-to
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tantek
e.g. when I referenced @julien51, Loqi could have tweeted out:
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tantek
@julien51: @t wanted me to tell you: if you can get on Twitter, you can get on IRC … http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-05-30#t1369950636
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tantek
make sense?
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aaronpk
even without the !tell?
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tantek
it'll only work for those of us "registered" on http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people anyway so that's fine
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aaronpk
so like if the IRC line starts with an @-reference, try to look up the people and tweet
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tantek
precisely
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aaronpk
and also with !tell when using an IRC nick
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tantek
nah - I think those are better served *in IRC* only
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tantek
sometimes you really do just want to time a !tell to whenever the person actually returns to IRC and is thus presumably ready to engage
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tantek
I don't want every !tell to immediately tweet
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tantek
but an @-reference, that's fair to poke the person
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tantek
mixes cross-site metaphors/conventions.
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aaronpk
but now we don't need to look up the person's twitter name because you're explicitly mentioning it
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tantek
you need to look up MY twitter name
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tantek
the @-from
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tantek
it's only the @-to that's being explicitly mentioned
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tantek
plus that puts a high enough barrier on randoms in IRC trying to troll Twitter that it should be fine
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aaronpk
that will also be incentive to get people to add themselves to the IRC-People page
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aaronpk
tommorris: I don't understand this #freenode channel. the docs say to jump in there and ask for a cloak, but nobody seems to be replying, they're all just arguing about shit http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
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tantek
and thus incentive to sign into the wiki
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tantek
and thus incentive to add IndieAuth support to their site
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tommorris
aaronpk: that sounds like IRC to me.
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aaronpk
that channel reminds me about all the bad parts of irc
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aaronpk
that page also says feel free to /msg someone, but I don't know if I want to piss some random op off
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tommorris
aaronpk: this is why I got mine through Wikipedia ;)
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aaronpk
hah. can we get an indiewebcamp cloak?
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tantek
can't be bothered. IRC doesn't have proper URLs for nicknames
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tommorris
we could probably get Freenode to give us a cloak for microformats and use that to hand out cloaks
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tantek
unlike email
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bret
oops
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aaronpk
ok how do we get a microformats cloak?
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tantek
why bother again?
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aaronpk
i don't remember
b0bg0d joined the channel
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bre.tc
edited /IRC_People (+39) "Added myself to the IRC list"
(view diff)
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bret
aaronpk: I have had some decent experiences ops in the #freenode channel, just state your question and wait, and try again later in the evening if nobody gets back to you. thats how I took over this abandoned irc nick register :)
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bret
also ty for making public those web mentions
scor joined the channel
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bret
I'm trying to piece together some simple Javascript based off of the octopress code, but I might just have to wait for http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0596517742 to show up before I get to far
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iamshane.com
edited /push-vs-pull (+127) "added a couple pro-pull references"
(view diff)
Loqi joined the channel
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tantek
bret - not AFAIK. presumably you'll need CryptoAPI support for that
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aaronpk
i'll update the logs in a bit
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aaronpk
fighting other things right now
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bret
its 2013 and all we realistically have set up for voice and video over the web is skype and google hangouts.. makes me :(
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bret
none of which could be considered secure
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tantek
bret - Facetime is encrypted I believe
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bret
by apple
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hadleybeeman
Tantek, I'm still confused about what you're trying to get me to see.
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bret
skype is too, but its the lame kind of encryption
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bret
hadleybeeman: the bot that logs the irc went down, but I presume he was pointing out that the conversation *should* be documented there
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bret
typically
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tantek
hadleybeeman - nevermind, the logs are behind since we lost our logging bot Loqi due to the aforementioned "internet storm" which seems to indicate cross-backbone packet losses are quite high right now. http://www.internetpulse.net/Main.aspx?Metric=PL
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hadleybeeman
Ah okay. I thought that might be where you were trying to go.