#indiewebcamp 2013-06-13

2013-06-13 UTC
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melvster
tantek: a friend of mine is writing it .. it's for client side apps to talk to apis ... still quite early in the cycle
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melvster
lol oh he's here
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melvster
slvrbckt
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onebigfluke.com
edited /2013/Guest_List (+427) "/* Creators */ bslatkin attending"
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@haxor
I will be at http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page in Portland, June 22-23rd. Hope to see you there! #indieweb
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@benwerd
I just had to make a difficult choice between two events, and #indiewebcamp won. No pressure.
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bret
Is the IWC 2013 schedule going to be on the wiki or are we using some other website for that?
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sandeep.io
edited /share (+1363)
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sandeep.io
edited /share (+101) "/* Examples */ split them into inappropriate and appropriate usage"
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cweiske
whoooo
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cweiske
you can register content handlers, too
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cweiske
not only protocol handlers
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cweiske
which means I can make tt-rss handle rss+atom feeds
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sandeep.io
edited /share (+60) "/* Criticism */ Should this page be renamed to Share Button/Action?"
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sandeep.io
edited /share (+295) "/* Sandeep Shetty: */ note about synonym for post or send and no share button"
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sandeep.io
edited /share (+62) "/* Criticism */"
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@angenehmextrem
Freie Alternativen für den üblichen #Softwarekram
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@angenehmextrem
link vergessen http://prism-break.org/ #prism #alternativen #foss #ownyourdata
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sandeep.io
edited /ActivityStreams (+56) "/* IndieWeb Support */"
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sandeep.io
edited /multiple-reply (+308) "/* Related */ Activity Streams supports multiple-reply"
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sandeep.io
edited /share (+285) "/* Re synonym for post or send */ share vs. post according the AS"
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sandeep.io
edited /share (+230) "/* Relevant definitions */"
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sandeep.io
edited /share (+35) "/* Appropriate (as per definition to tell others) */"
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tommorris.org
edited /code-of-conduct (+44) "adding nationality and transgender status"
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tommorris.org
edited /code-of-conduct (+44) "/* Respect */ expand slightly"
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tommorris.org
edited /code-of-conduct (+0) "/* Consequences */ exclusion tends to be a better term"
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tantek.com
edited /code-of-conduct (+69) "grammar, respect includes asking when you're not sure, expulsion+exclusion"
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tantek.com
edited /ActivityStreams (+25) "/* IndieWeb Support */ "can be mapped" is similar work, not an actual implementation"
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tantek.com
edited /2013/Guest_List (+5) "sort Brett, update counts"
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JonathanNeal
Have you guys seen a demo of jQuery does something like the old iGoogle, where a user drags a "handle" into a "placeholder" and it loads something? Maybe the handle is an app icon, and the placeholder is a column on the page, and it loads some data (HTML, CSS, JavaScript) associated with that handle into that placeholder.
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@benwerd
@sandeepshetty Thanks, and me too ;) It'll be a little while. Looking forward to discussing some of the ideas at #indiewebcamp.
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@ehafen
MT .@EffyVayena: Supreme Court Rules Human Genes May not Be Patented http://t.co/xB9EoWVBVj” #dttp #ownyourdata @SwissHealthBank
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julien51
aaronpk: have you been able to create the PuSH -> IRC thing we talked about the other day?
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aaronpk
i haven't had time yet unfortunately
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@eschnou
@mike3k Some exciting features coming in 1.3, especially #indieweb federation. I just pinged you a comment as an example.
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cweiske
may h-entry and e-content be on the same element?
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@caseorganic
MySpace deletes user blogs, then offers up vote to get their data back. http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/12/bring-the-blogs-back/ #indieweb
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bradfitz.com
edited /2013/Guest_List (+349) "/* Creators */"
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@mpanighetti
RT @caseorganic: MySpace deletes user blogs, then offers up vote to get their data back. http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/12/bring-the-blogs-back/ #indieweb
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erinjo
aaronpk: IndieAuth isn't recognizing my rel=me links
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erinjo
trying to sign in with erinjorichey.com
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barnabywalters
erinjo: we’ve been having loads of problems with twitter t.co’ing peoples twitter links recently :(
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erinjo
:-(
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barnabywalters
yep, that’s what’s happened to you too. app.net works well, as does github
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barnabywalters
and apparently google plus is now supported!
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erinjo
IndieAuth isn't recognizing the rel=me on my app.net or flickr links either
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barnabywalters
oh really? weird
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erinjo
says there was an error verifying
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barnabywalters
hm, it looks like app.net has removed rel=me. That is irritating
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barnabywalters
I think your best bet for the moment is to add a github link
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barnabywalters
I’ve never used flickr to try to log in so can’t really help there
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erinjo
Ok, let me try Github
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barnabywalters
I pinged app.net/dalton about rel=me, let’s see what they say
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erinjo
Github worked! But not Flickr, Twitter, or ADN...
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barnabywalters
I would try adding my domain to my flickr account to see if I can see what’s wrong with flickr login, but flickr won’t let me log in at all! Hmph.
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barnabywalters
we really need to get a non-commercial auth provider working with indieauth — it looked like OSM was the best bet
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barnabywalters
I think tommorris sent a pull request, not sure what happened to it
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barnabywalters
gotta bake, bbiab
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cweiske
openid is as non-commercial as it can get :/
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barnabywalters
cweiske: agreed, we should look into reenabling it again
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barnabywalters
IIRC the problem last time was that it worked inconsistently — but with the new service picker UI, that wouldn’t be such a problem as you could just switch to another service if openid wasn’t working
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barnabywalters
the argument that other services are more reliable is, for the most part, no longer true :(
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erinjorichey.com
edited /2013/Guest_List (+220) "/* Creators */"
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aaronpk
what! app.net removed rel=me?
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: so it would seem :(
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barnabywalters
just got a response — they want me to email them. *sigh*
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erinjo
aaronpk: yeah, and I'm not sure what's up with Flickr, but only Github worked for me
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aaronpk
ok yea time to re-enable openID, since the service picker will make it easier to use something else when openid fails too
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: yay!
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Loqi
giggles
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Loqi
aaronpk has 156 karma
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aaronpk
hmm I still have rel=me
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aaronpk
oh, you have to do the verified profile thing with app.net
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barnabywalters
oh, you have to do something special?
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aaronpk
it's part of their domain verification thing
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barnabywalters
fair enough
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erinjo
I just verified with ADN. Indieauth works once verified
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cweiske
aaronpk, we once talked about a separate pingback server that watches your atom feed and sends out pingbacks on your behalf. http://scott.yang.id.au/code/trackback-em-all/ does this, and now the first version of my own implementation is working
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cweiske
it is also able to receive pingbacks and store them in a database
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cweiske
next steps will be to actually let it put together the "comments" section html for each URL it receives pings for
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cweiske
so that you can include it like disqus, or render it directly in the static html page of your blog
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tantek
awesome that erinjo and bradfitz are going!
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tantek.com
edited /2013/Guest_List (-1) "update counts - and there were 8 spots left"
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sandeep.io
edited /ActivityStreams (+213) "/* IndieWeb Support */ Posts on sandeep.io also respond to a .as & .mf2 extenstion"
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tantek.com
edited /ActivityStreams (+166) "denote different categories of indieweb implementations of ActivityStreams, latest JSON spec vs. previous Atom XML"
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sandeepshetty
Came up with a way to map RSSB microformats to Activity Streams yesterday as a side-effect of trying to figure inconsistencies between the two models.
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sandeepshetty
and while I was at it, I also server all posts in the mf2 output json
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sandeepshetty
so I don't have to go to pin13.net every time :)
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JonathanNeal
So, if example.com has 5 iframes running things from example-app.com, it looks like they can window.top['the other iframe reference'] into the other iframes running from example-app.com.
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sandeepshetty
the inconsistencies between using the RSSB microformats and AS is very interesting... looking at the algo (http://www.sandeep.io/50) highlights the weird way objects needs to be interpreted depending n verb
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sandeepshetty
tantek: the atom model for AS seems to introduce new elements for activity, right?
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tantek
sandeepshetty - maybe? I don't have the AS spec memorized unfortunately (or fortunately, saving braincells for more useful things :) )
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sandeepshetty
I started of trying to see how to implements AS in microformats and then just ended up mapping RSSB to it. Wondering if this can help in any way define AS microformats
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tantek
I don't plan on doing much more work on my Atom AS implementation
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tantek
I don't know of anyone consuming it and doing anything with it
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sandeepshetty
pump.io and idno seem to be based around AS...
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tantek
sandeepshetty - it's not clear there's any real need to define AS microformats - since nearly no one is publishing/consuming AS on the open web
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tantek
sandeepshetty - where did you get that information? There's no documentation on the AS wiki about it
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tantek
there's no real community around AS (just a google group of non-selfdogfooders)- I don't really expect much from it
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tantek
for what purpose though?
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tantek
anyway - without a defined usecase for any more thinking/work I'm pretty much losing interest in AS as any kind of spec/standard
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tantek
it's only useful now for me for mining ideas from
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sandeepshetty
"idno is based on Activity Streams, and every page is an API call" - http://werd.io/entry/51a80348bed7de270681896b/a-new-website-running-on-a-new-platform
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sandeepshetty
I'm exploring it to see how the new stuff I'm doing with like, repost, etc fit it.
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tantek
sandeepshetty - I think your UI/UX/presentation explorations are far more valuable than any AS API calls that anyone is supporting
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tantek
you're doing far more interesting work, frankly.
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Web_Action_URL_APIs (+248) "/* Web */ added newly discovered Facebook sharer URL API, noted that the feed dialog is still the only choice if you require a redirect"
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sandeepshetty
I was seeing if there was a better way to model the like, repost, stuff.. there is an asymmetry between marking up links with "in-reply-to" and verb likes "like" and "repost"
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tantek
sandeepshetty - the verbs aspect of activity streams may have been too much complexity too soon.
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tantek
I think we can do nearly everything without verbs
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tantek
and for that matter - they also created too many object types without documenting evidence to justify them
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tantek
e.g. on wiki pages with research etc.
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benwerd
(Happened to be reading the IRC logs to see what was new and saw idno come up - to be clear, I'm using AS as a handy abstraction layer, not because I think anyone's reading it)
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tantek
and no one is going to bother to dig through email archives
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benwerd
Yeah, I've definitely got a few things to add to the wiki ;) I'm on the road right now but will spend some time on it before the week is out
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sandeepshetty
benwerd: re handy abstraction: that's why I was exploring it as well
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sandeepshetty
to figure out a good abstraction for what I'm doing...
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tantek
thanks benwerd
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benwerd
Right - eg, my Twitter / Facebook / etc links look for AS object types and the "post" verb (actually just "post"
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benwerd
totally agree with the verbs discussion). So notes get posted a certain way, articles another way, images another, etc.
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benwerd
It's a decent way to not tie integrations into my own plugins.
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benwerd
The same could work importing / exporting from installation to installation, although I'm leaning towards more of an MF2 approach.
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tantek
sandeepshetty - I think you're doing great with your per-post-type presentation differences approach
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sandeepshetty
thanks... I've just had this feeling that it was too hackish :)
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sandeepshetty
hence the exploration
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tantek
I think it's great that you're figuring out in public how to do likes etc.
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tantek
instead of faffing about on a mailing list. ahem. ;)
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sandeepshetty
benwerd: how are you modeling different post types and verb with mf2?
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sandeepshetty
If you skip all the verbs and object types, the actor-verb-object of AS is pretty good to map social stuff
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tantek
sandeepshetty - it's overkill
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tantek
and not very useful for real world uses
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benwerd
Right now I've only got the "post" verb - but I'm just using lightweight h-as-* markers
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sandeepshetty
the actor-verb-object model you mena?
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tantek
benwerd - when you get a chance, can you add that you're using h-as-* markers to http://indiewebcamp.com/ActivityStreams#Use_with_microformats2 ?
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tantek
thanks
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benwerd
yepyep
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tantek
sandeepshetty - yes, actor-verb-model - in practice, not necessary
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benwerd
will do :)
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tantek
it's another overkill abstraction for the vast majority of use-cases (maybe all practical use cases?)
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tantek
not unlike XML / RDF overkill / overly complex abstractions of the past