#indiewebcamp 2013-08-14

2013-08-14 UTC
bnvk and bret joined the channel
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bret Looks like evan is getting on the POSSE wagon: https://github.com/e14n/pump2tweet
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pdurbin nice
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tantek Woot!
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Loqi woot
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tantek aaronpk - another reason to handle the webmentions of/to the aaron.pk links - you have them listed on your blog posts as shortlinks for linking to :)
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conzeit yay
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conzeit hello
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Loqi woot
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conzeit =)
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conzeit Hey guys, I'm an artist, a bit of FOSS enthusiast....I want to start doing the indeweb thing
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conzeit do I have to buy a server pc to do that?
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conzeit oops. I guess loqui's response was a fluke...I thought the channel was active atm *goes to the logs to see at what hour ppl are active*
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tantek for my next CRUD trick, I've thought about reply-context and CRUD, yet another potential use of webmention - not just for sending mentions upthread, but updates downthread to comments you've collected (so they have a chance to update/delete their reply contexts)
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@subtledifferenc RT @author_rlbyrd: RT @katiemccoach: TIP: How to find reviewers for self published books https://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/how-to-find-reviewers-for-self-published-books_b75950 #selfpublishing #indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/367480880794574848)
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@kevinmarks #indiewebcamp Kahneman: System 1 makes decisions quickly, so it generally seems to be in charge. Most of the time it makes good decisions (twitter.com/_/status/367480924545761280)
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@dellasm RT @author_rlbyrd: RT @katiemccoach: TIP: How to find reviewers for self published books https://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/how-to-find-reviewers-for-self-published-books_b75950 #selfpublishing #indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/367483837066260480)
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bret conzeit Channel is way active! Welcome :)
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bret just not right now
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bret First steps to helping out is getting signed into the wiki
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bret add youself to the IRC people page http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people, and start a user page
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bret The next step is checking out some other folks projects. I would start with http://tantek.com/ http://aaronparecki.com/ http://waterpigs.co.uk/ http://werd.io/ and just digging around the wiki familiarizing yourself with the concepts and projects and see what interests you the most.
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bret ok off to bed goodnight
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Loqi don't let the bed bugs bite
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bret thanks Loqi :)
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Loqi you're welcome
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+80) "/* Why */ provide summaries of whys" (view diff)
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tantek.com uploaded /File:example-multi-reply-showing-url-context-tantek.png "Example multi-reply screenshot with simple URL reply contexts"
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+54) "/* Tantek */ added screenshot of simple multi-reply reply-context example" (view diff)
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tommorris bret: pronunciation in RDF is a layer violation. one just uses language-tagged literals. "herbal"@en-GB "erbal"@en-US
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neuro` Good morning #indiewebcamp ers
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+1300) "added brainstorming section with CRUD update/delete thoughts" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+198) "/* Brainstorming */ subheads, CRUD reply-contexts require original posts to send webmentions to comment permalinks" (view diff)
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@SwissHealthBank RT @ehafen: Guter Artikel in @sonntagszeitung zum Kampf um persönlich eDaten, ein 330 Mrd € Markt in 2020. #ownyourdata @SwissHealthBank (twitter.com/_/status/367558918610100224)
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Jihaisse hello
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@opera @juniwalk Couldn't find a really good site about it, this seems closest: http://indiewebcamp.com/NASCAR_problem :-) (twitter.com/_/status/367599801505812481)
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Jihaisse neuro`: still using feedburner for your blog ?
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neuro` Jihaisse: for now yes
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Jihaisse neuro`: are you planing to move back to your own feed ?
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neuro` Jihaisse: I do, but I ned to do it well to avoid having people getting lost.
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Jihaisse neuro`: any clue to do it well ?
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Jihaisse I don't think you can write a rewrite rule into feedburner ;)
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neuro` Jihaisse: they offer you a 1 month redirect, so you need to post often with a properly crafted message
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neuro` and so...
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neuro` I'll write some indie web oriented post on how to get out of Feedburner before it closes
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Jihaisse :)
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Jihaisse good thing !
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Jihaisse neuro`: you don't answer to your comments ?
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neuro` Jihaisse: I should
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Jihaisse :)
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@mikeloukides IndieWeb: is this the next generation of the web? Truly distributed, not a collection of walled gardens? http://flip.it/ZKsnX (twitter.com/_/status/367613912633847808)
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@eightseventysix Meet the #Hackers Who Want to #Jailbreak the #Internet #indieweb http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367620219906166785)
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barnabywalters so, wired wrote about us now?
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Jihaisse wired, no ?
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barnabywalters Apparently they can’t type the Ç character :)
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barnabywalters and they spelled makr.io wrong (Mark.io) but got the link right
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barnabywalters nonetheless, it’s pretty cool that they covered the even
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barnabywalters s/even/event
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: nonetheless, it’s pretty cool that they covered the event
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Loqi [@aral] Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ &amp
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Loqi join us in #Brighton on Sept 7th-8th http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (http://twtr.io/bUjjhnh0p5)
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tommorris oh wow.
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tommorris that's awesome.
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tommorris They missed the cedilla on Tantek's name. ;)
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barnabywalters tommorris: yeah, and got at least one link wrong
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neuro` Nice anyway
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tommorris pops it in as a reference on tantek's Wikipedia article.
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tommorris "Çelik now works on IndieWebCamp, an effort to coordinate a community of people to build tools complement and provide an alternative to social networking services like Twitter and Facebook."
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tommorris missed a 'to' in there
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@aral @dantoml No, unfortunately, you have to go through a convoluted process to sign up :( #indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/367627609007747072)
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tommorris tantek: if you could record and upload an audio file of you pronouncing your own name and release it under a nice open license, we could include it as a pronunciation guide on Wikipedia. ;)
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t37.net edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+130) "Adds Wired article" (view diff)
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tommorris tantek: maciejhasone. ;)
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@JacobijnZ @jonathanrcarter Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ #Brighton on Sept 7th-8th http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (twitter.com/_/status/367635870696112128)
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barnabywalters lol at aral “convoluted process” to sign up
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barnabywalters actually, editing the wiki is probably the highest barrier if someone already has a domain
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barnabywalters six characters vs wikitext table syntax… brrr
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tommorris oh, a delightful comment on the Wired article
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@glennjones Wired post about #indieweb "Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet" http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ join in - http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK (twitter.com/_/status/367637843398492160)
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tommorris "They want to make a website...
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tommorris Which is not the same thing at all and in fact *anyone* can do that, at any time. So effectively it's all a bunch of crap."
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tommorris Yes. We want to make a website. And, no, that's not a bunch of crap. It's the first step to building things on the web.
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barnabywalters I really wonder who these people are, and in what context they write stuff like that
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tommorris They are the sort of people who post comments on news websites.
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barnabywalters tautological, for sure
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cweiske the intro text *is* misleading
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Jihaisse barnabywalters: they are people who don't really read the article
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Jihaisse he's talking about dispora
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barnabywalters yeah
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aaronpk wow awesome that @opera found our nascar problem page!
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barnabywalters aaronpk: ?
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/opera/status/367599801505812481
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@opera @juniwalk Couldn't find a really good site about it, this seems closest: http://indiewebcamp.com/NASCAR_problem :-)
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aaronpk oh cool Klint finished the article!
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notizblog.org edited /2013/UK (+647) "/* Remote Participants */" (view diff)
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Jihaisse huhu, nascar problem :)
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Jihaisse I choose on my new blog to not display any of these...
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Jihaisse but it's the first time I heard about this term
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Loqi [@SocialWebMining] RT @mikeloukides: IndieWeb: The next generation of the (social) web? Truly distributed &amp
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Loqi no walled gardens? http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (http://twtr.io/bUueQsEjuQ)
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Loqi [@ptwobrussell] RT @mikeloukides: IndieWeb: The next generation of the (social) web? Truly distributed &amp
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Loqi no walled gardens? http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (http://twtr.io/bUueRwdv_Q)
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Loqi [@indiewebcamp] RT @aral: Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ &amp
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Loqi join us in #Brighton on Sept 7th-8th http://t.co/59… (http://twtr.io/bUwyVTBQSf)
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@indiewebcamp Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ Great #indiewebcamp writeup by @klintron! (twitter.com/_/status/367660168466542593)
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@Yolondanvcz @indiewebcamp http://www.google.com (twitter.com/_/status/367661468587532288)
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tantek aaronpk yes Klint finished his article - and it's not bad as far as articles go
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tantek perhaps we could create a wiki page with corrections :)
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neuro` Morning tantek
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tantek good morning neuro`
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tantek and then politely send them to @klintron
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tantek how about we simply create a page with the same title and use that to keep track of corrections (as of a certain date) for the article?
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+80) "link to a corrections page for WIRED article" (view diff)
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neuro` tantek: I've added the article to the indie web links articles list as well
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tantek yes I saw thank you!
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tantek I linked to the corrections page just below that. nested.
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neuro` I'm writing a "leaving feedburner" article, will add it to the wiki as well (all my posts are CC, easier)
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tantek neuro` that would be great!
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neuro` Oh, there's something new in Feedburner, and that's great: You have the option for this feed address to permanently redirect to the currently configured source feed.
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tantek.com edited /feed (+4) "/* Are Feeds Dying */ link feedburner" (view diff)
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neuro` The redirect used to be 1 month only
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neuro` Jihaisse: that may interest you
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tantek.com created /FeedBurner (+418) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Feedburner (+24) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /feedburner (+24) "r" (view diff)
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@simonowens The IndieWeb movement wants to ween you off siloed companies like Google. Many of its participants work for Google http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367667100221202432)
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tommorris Google benefit from an open web. That's not exactly news. ;)
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tantek.com edited /Google (+24) "add feedburner" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Google_feedburner (+24) "r" (view diff)
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tantek tommorris - ironically there were more Mozilla people there than Google people
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tantek the article doesn't mention that - the Mozilla folks were more introverted ;)
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tantek neuro` please add the information that is new about Feedburner to the wiki page: http://indiewebcamp.com/FeedBurner
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tantek thanks!
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neuro` tantek: I'm writing it :)
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t37.net uploaded /File:leave-feedburner.png "Leave Feedburner with permanent redirection"
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t37.net edited /FeedBurner (+816) "Add instruction to leave Feedburner with a permanent redirection to your own feed." (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+1907) "stub with a few corrections, come on people, let's add more!" (view diff)
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tantek tommorris - it would be great if you could capture the corrections you noted above re: the article on the wiki page: http://indiewebcamp.com/Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+1) "s" (view diff)
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@wildebees Meet the #IndieWeb movement http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/?utm_source=buffer&utm_campaign=Buffer&utm_content=bufferc0758&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/367671976103788544)
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tantek aaronpk - you too - since you're obviously quite familiar with all things IndieWeb and IndieWebCamp :)
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tantek re: add to http://indiewebcamp.com/Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet
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tantek let's see if we can quickly (in a few hours) document all the corrections and send it to Klint (who can hopefully update the article)
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Loqi DOCUMENT ALL THE CORRECTIONS http://loqi.me/7n7
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+35) "escape bq eg markup" (view diff)
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@Lyderlig Fin artikkel om å eie eget innhold tross "siloer". POSSE: Publish Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere. http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/367672944178524160)
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+177) "note IndieWeb start year (2011), and citation of similar ideas since 1997" (view diff)
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tommorris tantek: didn't really have any corrections, just snarking about one of the commenters
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tommorris tantek: the Wired story is now a ref on your WP article
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tantek oh thanks!
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tantek you did note the minor correction(s) of "They missed the cedilla on Tantek's name. " - worth capturing those too
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tantek barnabywalters - could you note which link they got wrong?
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barnabywalters tantek: doing
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barnabywalters lots of paragraphs to count
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tantek thanks barnaby
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tantek cweiske - when you said "the intro text *is* misleading" - what text in particular, and correction(s) would you suggest?
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+241) "/* ... more corrections here ... */ noted mark -> makr correction" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+4) "/* Paragraph 5 starting with On any given */" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (-17) "/* Revolution Remade paragraph 2 starting with “Sadly, Diaspora co-founder” */" (view diff)
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barnabywalters So, RE: ”The rub is that data syndication method doesn’t protect you from hacks or government surveillance programs that target commercial social networks. Anything you cross-post to Facebook or Twitter is still subject to their rules.”
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tantek barnabywalters - perhaps we should document more thoughts on POSSEing public vs. private posts.
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barnabywalters in what circumstances does POSSEing private posts make sense? twitter DMs?
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tommorris I want to have private posts on my site. Problem is you then get into authentication hell.
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tommorris Like, I want my facebook friends to be able to read my private-indieweb-posts. so they need to login with FB
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tantek barnabywalters - foursquare checkins
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tommorris same with my Twitter friends. so they need to login with Twitter
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tantek or rather, checkins *to* Foursquare
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tantek tommorris - aaronpk has private posts working - it's quite clever
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tommorris I'm kind of okay about that kind of stuff
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barnabywalters is benwerd doing private foursquare POSSE?
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tommorris Flickr did a nice thing with private photos - you could email them to people and they'd be sent a one-shot link
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tantek barnabywalters - so far benwerd's checkin posts are all public on his site.
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benwerd hm, what? chickens?
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tantek lol
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@toddbarnard Check out @t and the @indiewebcamp folks in @WIRED's 'Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet' http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367676097283887104)
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barnabywalters dropbox individual file sharing is just done with public obfuscated links
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@benwerd The #indieweb made it into Wired: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367676490013343744)
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barnabywalters meh. even with encryption it’s a human problem more than a tech one
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benwerd I'm not doing private anything POSSE right now, for the record, although I'm thinking about that
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benwerd eg, not all of my Facebook POSSE posts need to be / should be public
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benwerd unfortunately I'm not sure how possible that is with the way I've set up the app
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barnabywalters benwerd: welcome to my world :)
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tommorris Holy crap. http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2013/08/14/gmail_security_google_says_users_have_no_legitimate_expectation_of_privacy.html
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tommorris Google have argued in court that Gmail users have no legitimate expectation of privacy for the contents of their email.
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benwerd third-party doctrine
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benwerd it's established case law
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tommorris really needs to move his email to something in the EU.
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benwerd really needs to move his email to something he hosts himself
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benwerd I'm looking forward to Mailpile
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benwerd right now I do have self-hosted email, but I barely use it because there's no great open source web email client
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benwerd I just bounce it to Google Apps. That's looking less wise.
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tommorris Self-hosted email is painful.
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benwerd Agree.
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barnabywalters I made the mistake of trying to set up an email server just after I got my first VPN. serious morale lowering.
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tommorris Lifehacker post on Gmail alternatives suggest Lavabit. Which got shutdown because Snowden.
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benwerd And there's the problem. At least if you control your own domain you can repoint it quickly.
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tommorris Yeah, I can shift my email relatively easily.
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werd.io edited /2013/UK (-335) "Sadly, for family health reasons." (view diff)
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barnabywalters benwerd: :(
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benwerd That's exactly how I feel :( Next time.
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benwerd And I may yet make it.
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Loqi it'll be ok
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benwerd Thanks, Loqi. Hugs.
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Loqi who, me?
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@Nadreck RT @benwerd: The #indieweb made it into Wired: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367679625389809665)
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phusion that's where I came from :)
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phusion reading the article now
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barnabywalters welcome phusion
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@kevinmarks RT @benwerd: The #indieweb made it into Wired: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367680010783428609)
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phusion thanks
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aaronparecki.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+95) "TOC, spelling of Çelik" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: barnabywalters: let me know when you want me to send that page to @klintron
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tantek aaronpk - still working on it
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tantek have you interacted with klintron outside of IndieWebcamp 2013?
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aaronpk yea, amber and I have known him for a while
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aaronpk he's spoken at cyborgcamp before, and has written articles about geoloqi
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+172) "shorten heading for easier linking, a few other minor tweaks to hopefully help clarity of corrections" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - let's keep adding to the page for another hour or so
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tantek great to hear you already have context with klintron - and thanks for offering to take the corrections to him
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aaronpk sure thing
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aaronpk he emailed me asking for a photo
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tantek I agree that's the best approach - to send them to him directly rather than commenting in the article or on Twitter.
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@erinjo RT @benwerd: The #indieweb made it into Wired: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367685037203804160)
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+2) "/* Revolution Remade paragraph 2 starting with Sadly */ "" (view diff)
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@fdevillamil RT @benwerd: The #indieweb made it into Wired: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367686131380654080)
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barnabywalters it would also be pretty cool if they added an indienews link
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barnabywalters we can send the webmention
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aaronpk haha
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Loqi awesome
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kevinmarks I keep forgetting about indie news
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tantek barnabywalters - add it as a suggestion to the wiki page!
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aaronpk kevinmarks: that's totally ok. it's an experiment right now
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neuro` Hello kevinmarks
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@shanley Wired article on indieweb movement with some of my thoughts on blogging, programming and privilege http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367687587328049153)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+350) "/* ... more corrections here ... */ added suggestions: indienews, microformats" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+1) "/* Paragraph 4 starting with They call it */ . bigger link" (view diff)
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@b6n RT @shanley: Wired article on indieweb movement with some of my thoughts on blogging, programming and privilege http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367689335933779968)
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@skeptomai RT @shanley: Wired article on indieweb movement with some of my thoughts on blogging, programming and privilege http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367689540577681411)
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@Lelielle RT @shanley: Wired article on indieweb movement with some of my thoughts on blogging, programming and privilege http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367690224802856961)
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barnabywalters sounds like ward’s going to be talking about private content in a few minutes: https://twitter.com/wardcunningham/status/367689814880952321
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@WardCunningham In SFW we login to write. What about login to read? Discuss: https://accounts.google.com/ServiceLogin?service=oz&passive=1209600&continue=https://plus.google.com:443/hangouts/_/43d51a808e4f54cda3d27dd376ebace796e7094a Chat starts in 10 min.
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KevinMarks2 I should get shanley to come to indiewebcamp, as she's at Heroku now - great oppty to host indie things
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tantek KevinMarks2 - indeed!
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tantek would be great to document *which* open source blogging tool she ditched and why
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tantek perhaps you could help organize an IndieWebCampSF dinner with shanley for follow-up discussion regarding the topics in the article? (not tonight, but soon)
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tantek I'm sure a few of us could make it. cc: benwerd
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aaronpk cool
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benwerd I was actually toying with adding an event last night
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benwerd but that's a great premise for one
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tantek benwerd - great - you and kevinmarks work it out :)
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aaronpk oh neat, didn't know she was at heroku
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benwerd KevinMarks2 - are you able to maybe reach out to her, see if she's up for it, and see what dates work?
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aaronpk yea would be awesome to get her involved more
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benwerd Then we could built it around that
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benwerd * build it
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KevinMarks2 reads archive - @tommorris have you looked at pump.io - Evan said that had a semi-public model
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aaronpk tommorris: that's an interesting use case for private posts, allowing your facebook friends to see things where you assume they *don't* have their own domain
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tommorris KevinMarks2: haven't looked at it in detail
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tommorris aaronpk: the subset of my facebook friends that have their own domain + indieauth is pretty much the barcamp crowd.
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KevinMarks2 #osfw3c conf call using some IBM java-based thing instead of irc
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aaronpk I should repackage an open source IRC client and then sell it to people for lots of $$
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Loqi yea
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aaronpk call it something fancy
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aaronpk it would probably work
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barnabywalters just to clarify, when standards organisations refer to “conference calls”, do they mean actual voice calls or IRC-like chats?
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barnabywalters has always assumed they meant actual voice calls
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KevinMarks2 it is a voice call, but the side channel is not irc
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bret aww sweet!
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bret http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/
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@erik_paulson RT @benwerd: The #indieweb made it into Wired: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367699295123697664)
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@lehawes Fine article on the #IndieWeb movement by @klintron on @WIRED: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/?mbid=social10797684 I had pleasure meeting some of these folks last week (twitter.com/_/status/367699458345414656)
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@znmeb RT @benwerd: The #indieweb made it into Wired: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367699561952706560)
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@jalbertbowdenii RT @benwerd: The #indieweb made it into Wired: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367699791620210688)
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bret Please, someone with twitter correct this information: https://twitter.com/aral/status/367627609007747072
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@aral @dantoml No, unfortunately, you have to go through a convoluted process to sign up :( #indiewebcamp
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aaronpk i did already
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bret ah ok
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bret didn't show up in the thread
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aaronpk oh, in reply to the parent of that
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/dantoml/status/367625951871762432
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@dantoml @aral There is no signup link?
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bret the funny thing is that web identity is as convoluted any other way, its just that some company does it for you
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bret Its like putting on a shoe and going 'its not tied! '
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bret or 'there are no laces' with the lace laying next to the shoe
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barnabywalters “the indieweb: learn to tie your web shoelaces”
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bret for someone with such a sexy website, you would think adding a rel=link wouldn't be so challenging http://aralbalkan.com
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bret rel=me*
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aaronpk I thought he did already
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barnabywalters IIRC aral can log into the wiki
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aaronpk yeah he did
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barnabywalters really, the whole phrasing is wrong. you’re not “signing up”. there is no “signup link” because it’s not possible to “sign up”
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bret folks need to vote down that first comment on that article, someone acting like a fucktard complaining about diaspora
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aaronpk has a lot of upvotes too :/
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bret we have more people in irc :)
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aaronpk bret: http://indiewebcamp.com/Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet
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barnabywalters “Seems like they are mad that Facebook, Google and Yahoo don't like to talk to each other. So what, they are companies that want to make money and their product is free to us.” ARGH
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bret that reporter seemed rather shy, but tbh IWC 2013 covered a lot of ground, way more than what is normally worked on the rest of the year, at least in IRC and on the wiki
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aaronpk luckily he's in portland and amber and I know him. i'm sure we'll get a chance to talk with him again
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bret sweet
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bret He didn't even get the main bullet points of the indieweb
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donpdonp great article. got a lot of good points in. the leading photo of the hardware device is confusing.
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bret thats like writing an article about free software and not listing off freedom 0 - 3
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donpdonp and 'jailbreak'--
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barnabywalters and “internet”
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barnabywalters to a certain degree, at least
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bret it was mostly good, maybe it is an indication we need to be more explicit about some of the main points
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barnabywalters bret++
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Loqi bret has 2 karma
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aaronpk welcome to the press, guys :)
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bret Like what shaners and aaronpk were talking about, moving the event stuff out of the first spotlight
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bret and putting the "what is this" "where to start" info dead center at the top
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Loqi this is awesome
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shaners scrolling backward to get context to bret's message
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barnabywalters you got that right, Loqi
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bret shaners: msg right before that, not much scrolling
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aaronpk communication is hard :) Anyone here feel free to change stuff around, or if you don't want to do anything too drastic, make a new "Main_Page-draft" page and start there
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bret the wired article missed some key points
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@Scopecreeped RT @mikeloukides: IndieWeb: is this the next generation of the web? Truly distributed, not a collection of walled gardens? http://t.co/nCcD… (twitter.com/_/status/367707409130610688)
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@veganstraightedge @dantoml @aral If either of you would like to sign in to the #indiewebcamp wiki, I (or others in the IRC channel) am willing to help. (twitter.com/_/status/367708023893934081)
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@veganstraightedge @dantoml @aral And it's actually very easy. You need your own domain and rel="me" on your links to other accounts. http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:UserLogin (twitter.com/_/status/367708251799818240)
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shaners bret: be nice. it probably isn't "challenging" for Daniel to add rel-me to his links. He prolly just hasn't it done it… yet. Maybe he's busy right now. etc
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@xtof_fr RT @fdevillamil: RT @benwerd: The #indieweb made it into Wired: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367710175529951234)
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@fohlin RT @benwerd: The #indieweb made it into Wired: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367710687831015424)
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@anuragwho A distributed independent web featured on @WIRED #indieweb http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/?mbid=social10797684 (twitter.com/_/status/367711141406834688)
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@markuslanthaler MT @jasnell: Activity Streams + JSON-LD + MQTT is a very compelling story... #osfw3c #jsonld (twitter.com/_/status/367713993747886080)
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bret "lso, requiring changes on an unrelated server is in no way seamless. People will use path of least resistance…" It is in no way more challenging than opening an account on Facebook to sign into something.
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bret the assumption there is that you have already done something and therefore its easy
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barnabywalters also, I question how the domain you’re logging in with is “unrelated”
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bret Especially for someone of his pedigree
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bret yeah, my mom might get confused if she was doing it
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bret but it isn't for her right now
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aaronpk where is that quote from?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: https://twitter.com/aral/status/367711998597160960
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@aral @veganstraightedge @dantoml Also, requiring changes on an unrelated server is in no way seamless. People will use path of least resistance…
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barnabywalters loves the fact that twitter reply web actions still work when I’m not logged in to twitter
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aaronpk ah
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aaronpk thx
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bret People are sooooo fast to jump on something
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aaronpk i'm surprised aral has this attitude, given the fact that he's building an indieweb-friendly service and is helping organize indiewebcamp uk
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@matikalwill oh yeah "Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet" la #indieweb hoy en @wired http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/?mbid=social10797684 (twitter.com/_/status/367715975569084416)
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@thierrymarianne RT @fdevillamil: RT @benwerd: The #indieweb made it into Wired: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367716454185320448)
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bret Like webmention is to pingback, indieauth is an improvement upon openID to use a domain as an online identity.
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bret Until someone does tumblr for the indieweb, its going to take a slight bit more effort to set up indieauth, but seriously, adding a rel=me to html is not very hard given the state principals at the moment: http://indiewebcamp.com/principles
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barnabywalters bret: also, given the immediate benefits
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bret I don't think anyone is claiming we are on our way to a utopian web where everyone has their own custom made blogging platform
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barnabywalters tantek summed it up at IWCUK — “add six characters to your site and get authentication”
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bret And I don't think its unfair to ask those who want join in the process to do more than just talk and hypothesize
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bret this isn't diaspora, we don't know whats best for everyone, so its best if the most number of people who can and are willing to come together and meet a variety of immediately practical needs
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tantek reads scrollback.
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tantek kevinmarks, benwerd, did you guys get in touch re: indiewebcampsf dinner/meetup with shanley/heroku?
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bret aww dang sounds fun
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tantek re: photo of hardware device - I actually love the fact that it's a person smiling and wearing a black hoodie :)
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tantek the hardware device is like an afterthought ;)
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tantek goes back to noting article corrections
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@WINTR_US Remember when advertising shifted to consumer control? This crew want to do that for the internet http://indiewebcamp.com/ via @WIRED (twitter.com/_/status/367720234213322752)
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tantek re-reading the article, there's a lot of great stuff captured there.
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@WINTR_US Remember when advertising shifted to consumer control? This crew is doing the same for the internet http://indiewebcamp.com/ via @WIRED (twitter.com/_/status/367720516066369537)
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bret I think it captured the conference well
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bret Remember when advertising shifted to consumer control? No, when did that happen ;p
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tommorris AdBlock.
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@vaxen_var "They see a pocket-sized web server pre-loaded with all the Indie Web applications you could possibly need." - Indieweb (Blah +blah = ?) (twitter.com/_/status/367721053574811648)
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bret tommorris: oh yeah
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bret and I just turned it off
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bret buh bye!
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tommorris given I currently work in advertising, I probably ought not be advocating AdBlock. but it wouldn't suprise me if all the developers who work here have AdBlock turned on. ;)
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bret I'm sorry :(
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bret I show acceptable ads
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bret adds
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bret ads*
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bret derp
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tommorris trust me, almost nothing is 'acceptable' under AdBlock's rules
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bret tommorris: I know, its not good. Advertising advocacy groups should write their own whitelist
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bret if its acceptable to me, I will use it
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bret the same way Easy-list is awsome
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tommorris and don't feel sorry for me. I like my job. I don't have to like advertising to like the job I'm doing. ;)
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tommorris same way as someone who works for a big company like MS or Google may not feel wholly happy about everything they do.
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bret the, 'there shall only be one' acceptable ad list is not the best model imo, and opens ABP up to conspiracy theories that they are dealing with now
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bret tommorris: what is the process to get on that list like?
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bret the whitelist
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tommorris dunno. not my job. ;)
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+666) "A Web You Can Call Your Own paragraph 1, blogger in 1999 was more essential to the indieweb, owning your content on your domain" (view diff)
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@mwidner Building the IndieWeb: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ Or "Jailbreaking the Internet", getting control back into users' hands. (twitter.com/_/status/367723687929077760)
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tantek tommorris - how about the link I have to my book/video on my site?
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bret How come journalists don't run the story by someone in the community first?
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bret Its not like its hard to get in touch :P
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tommorris tantek: that tends to not get filtered as advertising. and I don't have any real objection to that.
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bret im asking non questions again oops
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bret tantek: Does that even count as advertising, its a visual href to something you created!
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+18) "/* Paragraph 4 starting with They call it */ put correction next to original for easier correcting" (view diff)
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tantek bret - it goes to a point of sale - so it's an ad of sorts.
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tommorris bret: because the problem with that is it is very easy to get too close to the subjects of articles.
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tommorris I've done reportage from things like protests. I write what I see, not what the protesters tell me afterwards.
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bret One of us! One of us! One of us!
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+52) "/* A Web You Can Call Your Own paragraph 1 */ cite wikipedia, naturally" (view diff)
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neuro` What if God was one of us?
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tommorris Ooh, I'd forgottent hat I'd reported from Occupy
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bret http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C4uTEEOJlM
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tommorris https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Occupation_in_London_enters_fifth_day
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+44) "/* A Web You Can Call Your Own paragraph 1 */ more context" (view diff)
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tantek sigh I remember 2010, there was some momentum there that was lost
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bret what happend?
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tantek a bunch of things - article covers some of it
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bret rereads
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tantek the Diaspora founders never took the step of selfdogfooding and putting their own personal domains names behind it
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tantek Google Buzz stumbled, became neglected, and was eventually shut down.
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bret That donation from Zuckerberg makes all the more sense now, other than the fact he can drop $200,000 and not even bother to bend over and pick it up :p
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bret (to diapora)
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bret diaspora
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+289) "A Web You Can Call Your Own paragraph 6" (view diff)
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aaronpk there are 57 today in the IRC channel
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neuro` Not bad
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neuro` How many idlers though?
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aaronparecki.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+0) "up to 60 in IRC" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+14) "/* A Web You Can Call Your Own paragraph 1 */ note Evan Williams launched the Blogger service, since he is already referenced later in the article" (view diff)
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bret hard to tell who's idling and who's just watching
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aaronpk they're all on IRC tho
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tantek aaronpk - I left upper end at 50 since that was accurate as of the time of IndieWebCamp 2013
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aaronpk ooh
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tantek hmm - colliding edits?
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tantek thoughts?
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aaronpk i'll undo mine
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@AnonNewsAUT Meet the Hackers Who Want to #Jailbreak the #Internet. || http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ || #IndieWeb #Wired (twitter.com/_/status/367727963372277760)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (-14) "upper end at 50 since that was accurate as of the time of IndieWebCamp 2013" (view diff)
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aaronpk hey why did it undo your changes
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tantek awww
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tantek ok I've reread the article a few times now and noted historical/factual corrections on our wiki page
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tantek (hoping aaronpk is undoing his undo of my changes ;) )
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aaronparecki.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+14) "restoring tantek's change" (view diff)
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aaronpk there we go
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tantek so this is looking pretty good IMO
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tantek any other fixes/changes or suggestions for the article?
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet
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tantek or does anyone have any suggested improvements to the fixes already on the wiki page?
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bret I know that the comments section needs some moderation
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aaronpk hey at least there's one guy chiming in for us
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barnabywalters yeah, they clearly “get” it
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tantek heh
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tantek that RoboBonobo comment would be great as its own indieweb blog post ;)
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barnabywalters on a similar note, did everyone see manu sporny’s reply to shaners’ #microformats vs JSON-LD article?
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tantek oh dude, seriously - please no one ever write a reply like that with silly animated gifs mocking someone else
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barnabywalters yeah, that pretty much covers it.
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tantek it was one of the more immature blog posts I've read recently - which unfortunately took away from any of the actual points manu was trying to make.
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bret tldr json-ld is nessisary fror REST apis or something
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@agnesdelmotte Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/?mbid=social10797684 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/367731015139078144)
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tantek bret - not even that
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tantek (the linkbait in the article title is pretty funny)
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tantek "jailbreak" - lol
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tantek my understanding is that writers themselves don't even get to pick their article titles - someone else does that
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bret someone should collect all of the words in the online wired articles and make a random wired article title generator
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aaronpk markov chain wired article title generator!
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aaronpk bret: someone == you
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tantek nice - bet they'd use it :)
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tantek aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 201 karma
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bret buhhh, I'm at work
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bret And I think the fun/effort would be about 10^-3 at least
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aaronpk sent feedback to klint!
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bret Damnit, this guy has +30 now
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aaronpk don't worry about it
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aaronpk you do anything out in public long enough you'll get some percentage of people reacting like this. you just have to get used to it
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bret The mainstream web allows people like this to flourish gah :p
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bret you are right
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barnabywalters I like stating facts as a way of grounding things like this. An article was published about what we’re doing. A human skimmed over the article and typed some characters into a box. Other humans clicked an upward-facing arrow next to his characters, incrementing a counter.
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bret I like how brad Fitzpatrick is his own tag, i kinda feel silly just walking up to him now and asking him my random questions :p
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aaronpk lol!
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aaronpk well we have an indieweb tag now! http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/tag/indieweb/
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barnabywalters lol at the description
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bret barnabywalters: There has to be a way to address this more systematically. There is so much effort to lower the barrier in the name of UX, but then we literally get a metric ton of mind sludge (not to say thats all bad)
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@willnorris thoughts on @klintron's latest Wired piece about #indiewebcamp, as well as @mikeelgan's "blogs of auguest" https://willnorris.com/2013/08/jailbreaking-the-internet (twitter.com/_/status/367735550628749312)
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bret I appreciate that Klint is tying what we are doing do Anil Dash's web we lost piece. It would be great to get some recognition from his megaphone
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aaronpk very glad will posted that "comment" on his blog instead of in the wired comment area :)
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bret yes! Apt response! We should demo some indieweb commenting on his blog too!
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barnabywalters argh travel planning is such a pain. where do you people stay when coming to brighton?
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tantek yes, great post by willnorris
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tommorris "give up their personal sites and blog exclusively on Google+ for the month of August." → why would I want to blog only for my friends who work at Google? ;)
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condredge Hey all, just read about indiewebcamp on Wired - very cool!
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tommorris indeed.
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barnabywalters welcome condredge
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condredge thanks :)
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condredge piqued my interest, definitely will do some poking around and hopefully get involved.
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barnabywalters condredge: great! do you have a personal domain?
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condredge yes, but I'm currently doing nothing with it
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condredge condredge.com
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barnabywalters well, now’s a great time to start :) check out http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started for some tips
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barnabywalters and of course ask here
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condredge thanks!
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condredge do you know if anybody is doing anything in Django?
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barnabywalters not off the top of my head — most of us are using PHP or ruby
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aaronpk you'd be the first!
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condredge fair enough. just thinking about some of the other projects I'm working on that are in Django and considering implementing some Indie Web concepts into them.
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condredge cool :)
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aaronpk that would be great!
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@klintron RT @willnorris: thoughts on @klintron's latest Wired piece about #indiewebcamp, as well as @mikeelgan's "blogs of auguest" http://t.co/EDxv… (twitter.com/_/status/367740222051606529)
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@xtof_fr RT @willnorris: thoughts on @klintron's latest Wired piece about #indiewebcamp, as well as @mikeelgan's "blogs of auguest" http://t.co/EDxv… (twitter.com/_/status/367740454097276929)
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@Theremina RT @willnorris: thoughts on @klintron's latest Wired piece about #indiewebcamp, as well as @mikeelgan's "blogs of auguest" http://t.co/EDxv… (twitter.com/_/status/367740456978763776)
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condredge I suppose a good place to start would be to implement as many of the applicable micro formats?
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barnabywalters condredge: that would be an excellent start!
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barnabywalters we’ve been improving the documentation a lot recently: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2
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condredge or would you recommend starting somewhere else?
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condredge oh, cool, thanks!
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barnabywalters where’s the page with the implementation table?
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barnabywalters I’m thinking that’s a good “look at these sites to see how they do it” resource
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barnabywalters but I can never find it
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condredge oh yeah, that would be super handy
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barnabywalters condredge: oh also there’s http://indiewebcamp.com/friendly which might be relevant if you’re adding indiewebby stuff to non-personal sites
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condredge excellent.
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tantek welcome condredge (and earlier, phusion)!
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tantek and we're 60+ in here
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@sebschmoller RT @mwidner: Building the IndieWeb: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ Or "Jailbreaking the Internet", getting control back into users' hands. (twitter.com/_/status/367742875523510272)
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condredge thanks.
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@kevinmarks RT @shanley: Wired article on indieweb movement with some of my thoughts on blogging, programming and privilege http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367743043538911232)
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condredge swoons at being mentioned by Tantek :)
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condredge (sorry, couldn't be helped)
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@glennjones RT @willnorris: thoughts on @klintron's latest Wired piece about #indiewebcamp, as well as @mikeelgan's "blogs of auguest" http://t.co/EDxv… (twitter.com/_/status/367743224942587904)
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@benwerd @shanley Would you be up for meeting with #indieweb folks in SF for dinner sometime soonish? Interesting discussion. @kevinmarks (twitter.com/_/status/367743361127440384)
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tantek condredge - please, we're all just humans in here :) (well except for Loqi)
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Loqi grins profusely
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barnabywalters if Loqi mentions you, it’s either very good or very bad
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condredge like I said, couldn't be helped. Thanks, fellows, for pointing me in the right direction to get started.
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@appfusions RT @markuslanthaler: MT @jasnell: Activity Streams + JSON-LD + MQTT is a very compelling story... #osfw3c #jsonld (twitter.com/_/status/367748303019974656)
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@appfusions RT @NievesGlez: .RT @dhinchcliffe: "About 85% of business activity is non-transactional, and this is why we need social tools #osfw3c Y la … (twitter.com/_/status/367748349207662594)
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@fdevillamil Blog: Jailbreaker Internet (traduction de @willnorris). #POSSE, #indiewebcamp. http://t37.net/jailbreaker-internet.html (twitter.com/_/status/367751603081994241)
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@xtof_fr RT @fdevillamil: Blog: Jailbreaker Internet (traduction de @willnorris). #POSSE, #indiewebcamp. http://t37.net/jailbreaker-internet.html (twitter.com/_/status/367755251295600640)
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@eschnou Shared the link: Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet #indieweb https://eschnou.com/entry/meet-the-hackers-who-want-to-jailbreak-the-internet-indieweb-62-25022.html (twitter.com/_/status/367756049098756097)
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tantek.com edited /Wired_-_Meet_the_Hackers_Who_Want_to_Jailbreak_the_Internet (+2845) "note 13:00 some things fixed, kept remaining list of corrections." (view diff)
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@Krizh23 RT @sevasev: Butuh web hosting/domain(com/net/biz/org/dll)/web sekolah? SMS 081910012342 / email: support@indieweb.biz Website:... http://t… (twitter.com/_/status/367760170245296128)
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bret https://www.indieweb.biz sweet
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tantek bret - huh?
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bret it was in the that last tweet
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icco comes out of lurker mode
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icco congrats on the wired article guys
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aaronpk thanks icco!
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icco I saw tantek's talk at OSB '12, sounds like you guys have made a ton of progress since then
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tantek thanks icco!
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aaronpk indeed!
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@gregoire #indieweb featured on Wired: «Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet» http://t.co/HEpmULWhLh /via @indiewebcamp by @klintron (twitter.com/_/status/367779098435018752)
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Loqi [mention] http://technoccult.net/archives/2013/08/14/indie-web/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Projects (pingback)
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@haxor "Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet" – covers our #indieweb efforts: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ by @klintron (twitter.com/_/status/367788335223148544)
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@tilgovi RT @haxor: "Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet" – covers our #indieweb efforts: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ by @klintron (twitter.com/_/status/367789176793489409)
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@dlsspy RT @haxor: "Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet" – covers our #indieweb efforts: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ by @klintron (twitter.com/_/status/367789303738294273)
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@AmAbgrund RT @haxor: "Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet" – covers our #indieweb efforts: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ by @klintron (twitter.com/_/status/367790825704394752)
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@achaido Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/367794082275676160)
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@muvmint RT @shanley: Wired article on indieweb movement with some of my thoughts on blogging, programming and privilege http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/367794099837222912)
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@petterpalander Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/367794177528303617)
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@shinydistractns RT @haxor: "Meet the Hackers Who Want to Jailbreak the Internet" – covers our #indieweb efforts: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ by @klintron (twitter.com/_/status/367794289138352128)
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bret wonders if the wired article was posted to some wireless ad-hoc group'
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bret s mailing list
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bret oops
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bret Talk about a steep hill to climb, not to say it isnt a cool idea
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tantek steep hill?
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bret Referring to the "ad-hoc
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bret wirelss replacement to the internet"
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bret Reading the comments on the wired article, there are at least 3ish people talking about how we need to replace the internet
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bret ack, how did I get into those again :p
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bret Is zeldman not really on board with the indieweb ideas yet?
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tantek zeldman is on board, just not with the title of the article ;)
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tantek unless I missed something else
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bret (I
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bret (Im missing the part between internet farts and now I guess)
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bret gets on google
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tantek bret - what made you ask "Is zeldman not really on board with the indieweb ideas yet?" ?
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@bethelightwrite #Bloggers, msg me if you would like a #freeebook in exchange for an honest #review. #kindle #ya #newrelease #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/367797665334976513)