#indieweb

2013-10-27

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neuro`
Hello
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neuro`
tantek: have you seen how Disqus seems to use spammy tricks to hide advertisement from the site admin and display them to regular users? https://twitter.com/zedshaw almost all the 1st page.
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neuro`
One more reason to host your comments.
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tantek
neuro - wow
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@jshirley
To IndieAuth or not… that is the question. (twtr.io/e8TVZYDWNw)
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aaronpk
heh, dude sitting next to me at sisters coffee has an HTML book open and his laptop is open to the microformats wiki!
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Jeena
sounds like he is a hipster :-P
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franfran
hello all, I'd like to set something up on my website to participate in indieweb, I would also like to contribute to some open source software
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JonathanNeal
aaronpk: that's a pretty web savvy coffee house.
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JonathanNeal
And it's a Sunday.
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franfran
I'd like to 1)have a blog 2) syndicate to twitter (although the other way around, would be fine by me too) I wouldn't mind being able to privately share some web stuff too
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franfran
is ozten's innercircle a good choice?
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franfran
https://github.com/ozten/innercircle/tree/master/lib
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snarfed
franfran: are you more interested in writing code, or having something stable and easy to use?
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snarfed
if the latter, try wordpress with the SemPress theme and pfefferle's webmention plugin
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snarfed
you can syndicate to twitter with JetPack Publicize
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snarfed
if you're more interested in writing code, take a look at the projects on http://indiewebcamp.com/ and jump into any of them!
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barnabywalters
reads logs
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barnabywalters
greetings franfran — where’s your personal site?
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@kevinisageek
Oh this is nice, laptop pushing files up to my vps and my phone pulling them down. All automatically #owncloud #indieweb (twtr.io/e9AJcArx54)
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aaronpk
really want to publish my travel plans for the next couple months. I'm thinking about making an "event" for each leg
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aaronpk
some of them I would want to make private posts, you'd only be able to see them if you're logged in
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: sounds good
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barnabywalters
adactio was talking about implementing this on thesession.org
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aaronpk
then I can make an .ical export from my data the same way I run my HTML through a microformats parser to have a .json extension
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aaronpk
then I could add it to google calendar!
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barnabywalters
paving the cowpath he noticed of people using the forum to say “I’m going to X on Y, what sessions/music stuff is around?”
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barnabywalters
ooh that would be cool
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aaronpk
I think I have some time today to hack on this. might go back to sisters coffee. (ping: bret)
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aaronpk
is a flight an "event"?
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barnabywalters
I’ve seen a bunch of people use the aeroplane unicode character between airport IDs to notate flights
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barnabywalters
I think shaners does it sometimes?
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aaronpk
oh yeah i've done that
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ozten
franfram: innercircle doesn't syndicate to twitter
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ozten
the main idea, is something more like a letter
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ozten
you address a post to individuals
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ozten
kind of a blog, kind of a shared personal space
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ozten
but it supports webmentions
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ozten
and needs a lot of work :) if you build on top of it, it would be fun to jam
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ozten
notices franfran isn't in the channel
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barnabywalters
ozten: webmentions for private content? how are you doing that?
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barnabywalters
btw you can leave a !tell for them, e.g. !tell franfran blah blah blah
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ozten
barnabywalters: I didn't know able tell, thanks! Is that IRC in general, or a bot that supports it?
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barnabywalters
that’s Loqi being helpful
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ozten
!tell: franfram: innercircle doesn't syndicate to twitte, the main idea, is something more like a letter. kind of a blog, kind of a shared personal space but it supports webmentions. Needs a lot of work if you build on top of it, it would be fun to jam
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ozten
barnabywalters: I think I've made the webmention posts public
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ozten
you're right that the part where you check back would fail to see the content
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barnabywalters
aaronpk came up with a spec for doing authenticated webmentions
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ozten
interesting
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barnabywalters
using indieauth: http://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb-messaging
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ozten
thanks
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aaronpk
ozten: would love some more people to test that with!
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aaronpk
hm what happens if I create an event for a flight, and then change my travel itinerary?
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aaronpk
guess we'll find out, since that's about to happen
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aaronpk
also daylight savings time ends next sunday! prepare to have havoc wrought upon all your code that attempts to handle timezones properly :)
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: my strategy of completely ignoring it has been working so far ;)
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aaronpk
lol
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barnabywalters
goodnight all
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Loqi
ciao
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aaronpk
lawl. flights take place at two locations.
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aaronpk
why does it always take so much time to research how to publish new stuff
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aaronpk
man i've gone down a rabbit hole
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aaronpk
now researching boarding pass redesigns http://passfail.squarespace.com/ and https://medium.com/design-ux/c72084d7793e to figure out how to display my flights
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bret
aaronpk: would love to come but I'm in test grading purgatory right now :(
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aaronpk
sadface
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bret
:(
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aaronpk
it's ok. i'm getting frustrated by any lack of guidance on how to publish my flight plans
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bret
what do you mean? UI examples?
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aaronpk
yeah
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bret
hrmmm
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aaronpk
so far i've got this: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3708/10524488633_0a637d0b3e_o.png
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aaronpk
I think I should quit and call it good
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aaronpk
what more do you need?
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bret
not sure
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bret
a map and pins with hoverover info to display the data?
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aaronpk
oh god maps
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bret
maybe directional arrows
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aaronpk
wasn't even thinking that
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aaronpk
yeah that would be sweet
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bret
you could put a flying loqi to approximate where you are on the map during the actual flight
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Loqi
grins profusely
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aaronpk
lol!
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aaronpk
ok one thing at a time... I can't even figure out how best to put the damn dates on ther
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Loqi
[mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/10/27/1/indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
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Loqi
[mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/10/27/1/indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
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@_crossdiver
@erinanacker @obensource @aaronpk http://t.co/riPMMI68ms, http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twtr.io/e9Nh5NiUmw)
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@aaronpk
@erinanacker @_crossdiver @obensource I have a posting interface for my site that works well on my phone, so I... http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/10/27/1/indieweb (twtr.io/e9Nba2goNQ)
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aaronpk
oh god. I need to add support for different timezones for the start and end date to the date formatter https://github.com/indieweb/date-formatter-php
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aaronpk
well at least that's easier than UI work :)
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aaronpk
that wasn't too bad
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@bear
RT @_crossdiver: I'm moving to the #indieweb: http://ike.io/2013/10/23/the-indieweb.html (twtr.io/e9ScTKUnnC)
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tantek
good evening #indiewebcamp
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aaronpk
good evening!
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aaronpk
tantek: i've been experimenting with marking up flights on my site
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aaronpk
running into an issue with h-entry, because it only specifies "location" but there are two locations for a flight! the departure and arrival cities!
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aaronpk
not sure if that's enough to warrant a new microformat or not...
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tantek
aaronpk - a flight is not really a "post"
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tantek
just like an event is not a post
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aaronpk
no, but it's kind of an event
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aaronpk
right now I have each leg of the flight inside an h-entry
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tantek
yes it's an event with a start-location and end-location
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aaronpk
is it worth adding "start-location" and "end-location" to h-entry then?
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tantek
a flight is not an h-entry though
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tantek
or did you mean to h-event?
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aaronpk
er, h-event
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tantek
maybe. though what you're describing is something conceptually more than an event - it's an instance of travel / transport
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tantek
which has an event at the start and an event at the finish
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tantek
would apply to anything where you start somewhere and end somewhere else
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tantek
e.g. on a run for example
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aaronpk
the way I was thinking about it was the whole trip was an h-entry (PDX -> DXB), and it has child h-events inside for each leg (PDX -> AMS, and AMS -> DXB)
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aaronpk
each leg has a start and end time and start and end location
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tantek
you keep saying h-entry when I don't think you mean h-entry
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aaronpk
this time I did mean h-entry
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aaronpk
unless an h-event can have child h-events
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tantek
an h-entry is just a post of some content
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tantek
everything about the h-entry applies to *posting* of that content
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tantek
not to stuff inside the content
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tantek
e.g. "location" on h-entry is about where you were when you *published* the entry
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tantek
same thing about dt-published, dt-updated
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tantek
this is the same problem as when we were trying to figure out h-event vs. h-entry
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aaronpk
ok. here's an example in my UI http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2835/10528728813_8afc32cd64_o.png
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tantek
and we decided on h-event being separate from an h-entry
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aaronpk
so maybe this is something else entirely
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tantek
right. it might be
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aaronpk
h-trip or something
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tantek
I'd say start with documenting publishing examples
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tantek
I mean - do you mean for it to be specific to flights?
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tantek
or would train rides also fit?
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tantek
or driving? or biking? or even walking?
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aaronpk
my initial use will be for travel, so train rides would also fit
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aaronpk
but I suspect very quickly runs and biking, etc would use it
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tantek
yeah - and then it starts to get into QS stuff
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aaronpk
I already have a bunch of bike rides logged in Strava which I want to publish
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tantek
so you likely have a lot of existing pages to examine for publishing examples
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tantek
and documenting
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tantek
Strava bike rides would make sense I guess too
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aaronpk
you have a lot of nike+ runs already
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tantek
I do
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tantek
though those typically end up at the same place I started
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aaronpk
ah interesting
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aaronpk
here's a list of rides, and the comment links to a full view of a ride: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/10528575595/
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tantek
oh cool
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tantek
the other thing is - that's even more data since it has route data
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aaronpk
yeah. and technically I have a lot of route data for flights too
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tantek
maybe even velocity along that route
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tantek
technically you don't *have* route data for flights - but it is somewhat discoverable
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aaronpk
yes i do :D
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tantek
uh - running your own GPS?
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aaronpk
mayyyybe
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aaronpk
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/10468777876/
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tantek
whoa
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aaronpk
lots of data
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peat
aaronpk: ... still recording location data? :)
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aaronpk
of course!
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peat
aaronpk: how many years, now? :)
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aaronpk
a little over 5!
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peat
fabulous.
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tantek
aaronpk - I myself have been working on iterative improvements in what little posting UI I have
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aaronpk
oh, great!
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tantek
and some brainstorming too
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tantek
I like the idea of having separate "save" and "publish" steps
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@AuthorNetwork
RT @JGMcNease: Check out my Independent Author Network page at http://www.independentauthornetwork.com/j-g-mcnease.html #IAN1 #TheLastNavigator #middlegradereader #IndieAuth… (twtr.io/e9mJUeKaxt)
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tantek
(where my "save" is currently the scp step, and the "publish" step is one button push in my current Falcon UI)
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tantek
publish is what actually does the PuSH notifications, POSSE to Twitter, and ...
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tantek
when I also plan to send webmentions
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aaronpk
that makes sense. I combined save/publish for my notes, but it's still separate for my articles, although "save" is really "save draft" because it's not publicly visible until it's published.
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tantek
yeah - my "drafts" are publicly visible :)
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tantek
I can see combining save/publish once I have a web UI working that supports undo.
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aaronpk
so if I start collecting examples of publishing "trips" or whatever, should I put them on the indiewebcamp wiki or on the microformats wiki?
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tantek
microformats, however step 1 is to see if anyone has started collecting such examples already!
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aaronpk
heh http://microformats.org/wiki/dopplr-syntax
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aaronpk
directions is close http://microformats.org/wiki/directions-examples
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tantek
wow - forgot about the dopplr txt stuff!
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aaronpk
i don't have permission to create new pages
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aaronpk
can you make a stub so I can edit it?
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tantek
wow I forgot about this: http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2006-06-13-where-2-bof
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aaronpk
"...Tim O'Reilly engaged Bill Gates in a discussion about microformats"
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aaronpk
wow
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aaronpk
well crap. I was hoping to be able to get this sorted out and start documenting my upcoming flights.
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aaronpk
should I just leave out microformats from the posts and start publishing anyway?
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tantek
aaronpk - yes, just publish the human readable content
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tantek
use a simple poshformat for them
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tantek
but as separate things
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tantek
rather than as an extension to entry or event
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aaronpk
well right now I just have my css classes to style them visually
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tantek
useful to keep those anyway - separate from microformats markup
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tantek
at least from experience
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aaronpk
definitely
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aaronpk
i'm glad i've been doing it that way
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tantek
aaronpk - so in my publishing flow, as I've been looking at webmention discovery/sending, I've realized it would be useful to do all the discovery *before* I click "publish"
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tantek
even if just doing the HEAD request parts, as that way I have a "link check" function built in before I actually publish my posts.
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aaronpk
clever!
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tantek
s/function/feature
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: even if just doing the HEAD request parts, as that way I have a "link check" feature built in before I actually publish my posts.
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aaronpk
also means you can load up your UI with preview stuff
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tantek
I do load it up with preview stuff currently
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aaronpk
previewing reply contexts and such
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tantek
but I'm thinking a list of links too, with head results
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tantek
summaries thereof
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tantek
so I can quickly see if I have any broken links in my post, *before* I publish
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aaronpk
that makes a lot of sense
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tantek
could even dynamically load the link checking / discovery results after loading the post-preview
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tantek
and then when I click publish, the UI already has all the webmention endpoints it needs from HEAD and skip that step
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tantek
I'd even indicate 3xx results with the destinations - as another I may want to fix before publishing
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tantek
could also do original-post-discovery and rel-syndication discovery as part of that step too - and convert in-reply-to twitter URLs to original posts, while hanging onto the twitter URLs for POSSE @-reply purposes
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aaronpk
yes I think that is a good pattern, do as much up front as possible so the actual "publish" step does as little "magic" as possible
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tantek
right
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aaronpk
tantek: do you have any of your old hypercard files? now you can run them in the browser! http://jamesfriend.com.au/pce-js/
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@WilliamPotter68
RT @JGMcNease: Check out my Independent Author Network page at http://www.independentauthornetwork.com/j-g-mcnease.html #IAN1 #TheLastNavigator #middlegradereader #IndieAuth… (twtr.io/e9ppTyyc0p)
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aaronpk
tantek: ok here are my next two upcoming flights! http://aaronparecki.com/flights
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aaronpk
at some point I hope to import my whole history for the last couple years
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aaronpk
but I am definitely not doing that much data entry tonight :)
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aaronpk
oboy. now I want a permalink for an entire trip. it would contain: flight to the destination, one or more events at the destination, flight back home
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Loqi
gives aaronpk a permalink for an entire trip
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aaronpk
also could contain articles, notes and photos written during that trip
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aaronpk
kind of like storify for my own content
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tantek
yeah!
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tantek
ok - a bit tired here - calling it a night.
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tantek
good night.
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Loqi
ciao
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aaronpk
night!
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aaronpk
hrm... I need a plural noun to refer to: flights, train rides, bus rides, cab rides, etc
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aaronpk
transit / transportation
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aaronpk
and I can't use "trips" because I'm going to use that for something else
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aaronpk
maybe I don't need it to be a noun... maybe "travel" is ok
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aaronpk
http://aaronparecki.com/travel
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bret
aaronpk: what about routes? travel is good too
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@AvidReadersCafe
RT @JGMcNease: Check out my Independent Author Network page at http://www.independentauthornetwork.com/j-g-mcnease.html #IAN1 #TheLastNavigator #middlegradereader #IndieAuth… (twtr.io/eA1qj5i5oo)
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