#indiewebcamp 2013-11-11

2013-11-11 UTC
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stefek99
Dear #indiewebcamp --> just before going to sleep --> if anyone is interested --> https://twitter.com/stefek99/status/399599548558876672 (feel free to visit me in the UK) EOM
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@stefek99
mid-January-2-weeks tech retreat near Cambridge UK (1hr from London) Takers? CC #indiewebcamp @MailpileTeam https://twitter.com/stefek99/status/399599548558876672/photo/1
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@offrayLC
Support the future of the self-hosted Web: https://fund.arkos.io/ #Crowdfunding + #IndieWeb
(twitter.com/_/status/399734309839310848)
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@cznweb
RT @offrayLC: Support the future of the self-hosted Web: https://fund.arkos.io/ #Crowdfunding + #IndieWeb
(twitter.com/_/status/399738242767273984)
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@ijpulidos
RT @offrayLC: Support the future of the self-hosted Web: https://fund.arkos.io/ #Crowdfunding + #IndieWeb
(twitter.com/_/status/399801473267408896)
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@BillKenneth
RT @offrayLC: Support the future of the self-hosted Web: https://fund.arkos.io/ #Crowdfunding + #IndieWeb
(twitter.com/_/status/399853991158624256)
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caseorganic
brennannovak: hi from london!
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ozten
I can't make the unhosted gathering this week, but will be looking for interesting links to get a snapshot of where the project is at
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bret
the unhosted pdx looks rad... I think ill try to make it
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bret
thanks for the heads up ozten?
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ozten
bret: you bet
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bret
yeah
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bret
not on calegator. I'll try to add it
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aaronpk
i won't be able to make it unfortunately
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snarfed
unhosted++, those guys are rad
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Loqi
unhosted has 1 karma
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Loqi
UnhostedPDX Hackathon on Saturday, Nov 16, 10:00am at Mozilla
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snarfed
hi all! checking on the current state of the art for indieweb likes/favorites…
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snarfed
based on http://indiewebcamp.com/like and http://indiewebcamp.com/responses, it looks like it's just u-like and a webmention, similar to a reply
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snarfed
and may not even need a u-in-reply-to
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snarfed
does that sound right?
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snarfed
it sounds reasonable. i'm not implementing it right now, but i'll run with that when i do.
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snarfed.org
created /star (+22) "alias star to favorite"
(view diff)
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b0bg0d
is there an unhosted.org style Indie-Web-as-a-Service implementation of the Indie Web RT environment (IWRiTE) :)
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b0bg0d
and, moreover, once IWRiTE is running in a browser tab, how do I push that *tab* to the cloud as my server?
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bret
b0bg0d what is the Indie Web RT environment?
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b0bg0d
ideally, it's a Web Component. :)
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b0bg0d
it's the canonical-ish implementation of the methods, protocols and formats in JS. just add identity (domain) and data (tbd) and you're riding the indie web.
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bret
hrmm... I dont think that exists right now
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b0bg0d
that's correct. i don't live in the present. i live six months from now.
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snarfed
mind if i ask you about a couple horse races?
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b0bg0d
i didn't say i full spectrum visibility to the future, just that I live there.
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b0bg0d
you may call me, The Product Manager
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bret
i've beein using prose.io for a while, which lets me edit my jekyll blog all client side in browser, but that depends on the Github api to write to a remote git repo
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b0bg0d
exactly.
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b0bg0d
that relies on http://remotestorage.io/ for storage
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snarfed
remoteStorage++
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Loqi
remoteStorage has 1 karma
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b0bg0d
but, presumably, the competition btwn Goo Drive, DropBox, et al. data storage APIs are imminently avail/apropos
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b0bg0d
bbiab
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snarfed
to your higher level point, from the little i know so far, it seems like indieweb people are definitely aware of the unhosted ideas, and like them, but haven't done a lot of concrete integration work yet
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snarfed
so we'd welcome leadership and rough shipped code in that area
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b0bg0d
i'm ramping up to contribute in that way :)
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snarfed
awesome!
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snarfed
btw you and tantek and others at moz, i'm guessing we'll eventually see some org leaning in that direction too
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snarfed
thanks! but yeah i/we already know
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snarfed
glad you're here!
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b0bg0d
koo. thanks.
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b0bg0d
yes. user utility/agency/sovereignty is def on story/brand/mission @ moz :)
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snarfed
definitely. that message has been coming through well over the last year or two
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b0bg0d
go-to-market establishing critical mass is nearly as tricky as implementation.
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b0bg0d
actively noodling...
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b0bg0d
runs off for quick lunch before mtg
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bret
b0bg0d way cool I love it!
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bret
client side editing and storage, backed by remote storage! All you need now is a webapp that pulls in the data like the client does, and make a website out of it
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aaronpk
bring your own backend
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bret
b0bg0d what do you think you are going to work on first? I'm excited :)
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bret
Ohh remote storage has a node backend]
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hadleybeeman
B0bg0d: I'm loving your vision
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b0bg0d
@hadleybeeman merci
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@mastorna
@strikeux the #indieweb movement is underway! cc @t
(twitter.com/_/status/400011355824336897)
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jacook
yay
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Loqi
woot
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tantek.com
created /responses, (+23) "redirect for bad Colloquy autolinking a link in the channel"
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tantek.com
edited /responses (+14) "link repost"
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tantek
hey snarfed, I think there's at least a rough passive consensus that u-like is the way to link to thinks that are liked, and that a post (h-entry) containing a u-like *is* just a "like" post. (rather than having an explicit "like" type post)
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snarfed
great! thanks for the confirmation
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snarfed
and the u-like link is standalone, ie the h-entry doesn't also need a u-in-reply-to?
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brianloveswords
My friend just asked me “Do you have any good books / posts you would recommend on the subject of federated networks?” – anyone have any recommendations?
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hadleybeeman
brianloveswords: It's a bit outdated now, but I use this for newbies https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/03/introduction-distributed-social-network
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tommorris
I think the general opinion here is distrust of anything involving the word "federated".
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@kevinmarks
@obra unified ux can be tricky if the person at the other end is seeing a different one. Nuances of POSSE #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/400035305434009601)
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bret
tommorris: why is that?
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tommorris
bret: because we've seen lots of federated snake oil that doesn't really go anywhere
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pdurbin
tommorris: what about SAML?
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tommorris
don't know much about SAML other than that it is a very complex thing that's attached to OpenID ;)
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pdurbin
well, it's way older than OpenID
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ozten
brianloveswords: Not a book, but this brownbag video is quite good for finding references https://air.mozilla.org/centralized-personal-data/
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tommorris
oh sure. I know that the OpenID people thought it very important to include compatibility with SAML and LID and XRI and a bunch of other things nobody cares about much anymore. ;)
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bret
when did 'federated' start popping up?
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aaronpk
i don't think saml is attached to open id...
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aaronpk
it's a very enterprisey thing though, but pretty cool
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tommorris
identi.ca - federated microblogging, dozens of proposals for federated social networks over the years
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pdurbin
tommorris: maybe it's just because I'm in higher ed, but our users definitely want federated login via SAML/Shibboleth
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aaronpk
it's kind of like oauth, but without needing a communication channel between the two servers
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aaronpk
which makes it really handy because you can auth users against an auth server which is inside a firewall and doesn't actually have an internet connection
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barnabywalters
good evening #indiewebcamp
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brianloveswords
Good evening barnabywalters !
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barnabywalters
I’d be interested in feedback about http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/ if anyone wants to have a play
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barnabywalters
spent the evening working on styling and debugging and such things
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KevinMarks_
you can have OAuth without communication channels - 2-legged OAuth - it means you need to explictly trust the other party though
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barnabywalters
RE why “federation” is distrusted — IMO it’s because the default path a whole bunch of “federated” projects went down caused their focus and goals to shift further and further away from actual interoperability
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pdurbin
KevinMarks_: interesting. looking at http://blog.nerdbank.net/2011/06/what-is-2-legged-oauth.html . thanks
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barnabywalters
is 2-legged oauth what evanpro was/is using for dialback auth?
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KevinMarks_
2-legged mostly means 'some admin at your site gave access to all users for a given app'
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barnabywalters
lol “I can barely understand OAuth 1.0 and I can't figure out OAuth 2.0 at all, so I'm sticking with 1.0.”
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barnabywalters
that feels familiar
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pdurbin
oh, he'd love SAML ;)
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aaronpk
KevinMarks_: but oauth requires the consumer be able to communicate with the auth provider
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aaronpk
saml does not
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pdurbin
aaronpk: but in many (most?) cases, the consumer/user *does* communicate with (log in via) the auth provider with SAML, no?
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aaronpk
not in the cases I've seen
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aaronpk
also consumer != user
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aaronpk
pdurbin: imagine you have your own SAML provider sitting on your home network, and you don't expose it to the internet, it only has a local IP address
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aaronpk
you visit my site and I ask you to sign in using your SAML provider. Assuming I've pre-negotiated a few things, I just direct your browser to your local IP address.
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aaronpk
you come back to my site with the SAML assertion, and I can verify it without talking to your SAML server
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aaronpk
because math
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barnabywalters
woah, that *is* pretty cool
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pdurbin
aaronpk: so in this scenario you're running a SAML Service Provider (SP) in the cloud (from my perspective) and I'm running a SAML Identity Provider (IdP) on my local network
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aaronpk
yeah, a pretty common use case in enterprise land
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pdurbin
ok. I've been thinking mostly about implenting the SP side. makes sense
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aaronpk
yeah, it's pretty cool actually.
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aaronpk
minus the whole ugly xml part
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aaronpk
but if you look past that...
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pdurbin
aaronpk: did you use simplesamlphp? or write your own thing?
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aaronpk
I haven't implemented it yet actually :)
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barnabywalters
pretty cool apart from the ugly xml — sounds familiar…
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aaronpk
barnabywalters: haha yeah, seems to be a recurring thing. Also quite likely we'll be saying the same thing about JSON in another 10 years :)
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Loqi
hahahaha
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barnabywalters
probably, but could it be implemented a la webmention, using mainly HTTP?
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aaronpk
not sure, I'd have to take a look at the protocol in more detail
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barnabywalters
or is federated indieauth a better target for federated URL-based identity+auth?
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aaronpk
that would be interesting...
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aaronpk
they're pretty different from each other, mostly due to the crypto in SAML and intentional lack of crypto in indieauth
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barnabywalters
http://indiewebcamp.com/distributed-indieauth requires the consumer to verify the code with the server
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aaronpk
not requiring communication channel between consumer and provider is cool. but the trade-off is there's a setup step before you can use it.
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aaronpk
not sure if there's been much work done to try to bootstrap that part automatically. I imagine there's some RFC extension to SAML sitting around somewhere for it.
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KevinMarks_
my former colleagues at salesforce have done a lot of work on bridging SAML and OAuth
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