#indiewebcamp 2014-01-28

2014-01-28 UTC
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KevinMarks semi-weekly means twice a week, not every two weeks
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KevinMarks I'd say fortnightly, but that may be too British
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tantek KevinMarks - so biweekly?
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tantek which sounds more like twice a week
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KevinMarks biweekly is still ambiguous, but at least not wholly wrong
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tantek ok
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KevinMarks this is the recurring events rathole of iCal isn't it
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tantek it's disambiguated by the next sentence so biweekly it is
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KevinMarks "every two weeks" is probably clearest, but that disambiguation is OK
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tantek doing more main page edits
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tantek.com created /distinguished (+1006) "create separate page with the longer descriptions for each distinguishing point" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /different (+27) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /create (+114) "see also creator" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-303) "summarize distinguishing, move to top, link to separate longer distinguished page" (view diff)
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tantek ok another semi-major change - I tried simplifying the "distinguishing" aspects of the indieweb and putting it at the top next to the initial definition
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brient.net created /User:Brient.net (+791) "Created page with "== <a href="http://brient.net" rel="me">Brient Hess</a> == A Portland-area geek, photographer, and writer. Currently in the very earliest stages of developing for the Indie Web,..."" (view diff)
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tantek hoping that helps with the "what is the indieweb" question
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Loqi the indieweb is great
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tantek bret - is top of http://indiewebcamp.com/ too "wall of texty" or is it brief enough to be quickly skimmable?
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bret on foot right now can check when I get home. iirc it was mostly stuff beyond the initial view that you had to scroll too that was too listy without much context
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@brienthess Now .4 points toward IndieMark Level 1 – progress! #ownyouridentity #useyourownidentity http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Brient.net (twitter.com/_/status/427969312884654080)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-250) "remove leftover what is the" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /creator (+58) "see also create" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, snarfed - how does the URL for Wednesday's event http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club link to the FB version of that event?
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tantek I couldn't find it and didn't know where to add it
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snarfed the FB event links to it
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tantek or is the FB event only a POSSE of aaronpk's event?
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tantek snarfed, but not vice versa
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tantek no rel=syndication link?
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snarfed right. so far the fb event has mostly just been a testbed for bridgy's rsvp handling, i guess
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snarfed we should send it out wider!
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tantek could you add it to the wiki page
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tantek ?
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Loqi agreed.
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snarfed sure, will do
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snarfed.org edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+99) "/* URLs */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-63) "move now shorter TOC to top" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /social_web_map (+28) "see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /To-do (+134) "see also social_web_map, update help out with indiewebcamps upcoming" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Get_Started (+29) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+96) "see also elsewhere" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+286) "move previous indiewebcamps list here from the home page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-412) "rewrite and simplify how, cut a bunch more and move to sub-pages" (view diff)
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tantek alright, major rewrite of home page is done
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tantek bret - especially interested in your feedback
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tantek I'll be off for a bit - please feel free to iterate/tweak/fix
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tantek and give feedback here in the channel
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tantek I'll be polling the logs
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werd.io edited /Main_Page (+75) "Emphasizing the elevator pitch" (view diff)
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benwerd !tell tantek A CSS tweak that would appeal to the pedant in me: #creators img { width: 128px
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benwerd }
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bret !tell tantek Quickly read through it. Looks so much better and purposeful! I'll give a deeper look asap
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bret It also just occured to me, maybe there should be a note about the primary focus of IndieWeb is the Web, rather than email, rss/atom/xml, OSs, crypto, devops etc as part of the Distinguished section. The quote about 'if you cant curl it...' comes to mind.
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bret backporting the silo'd web to the indieweb :)
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koanhead bret: What's the difference? Is 'the web' HTML, or is it anything transportable over http? What about the threatened convergence of web client with OS? What exactly *can't* you curl? Reason why I ask: are you looking to narrow the audience, and if so, exactly how?
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koanhead It would seem that the focus is primarily UX and presentation of data, so I would guess that therefore crypto, devops, and other backend stuff is offtopic as you mention
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koanhead but at the same time all those things are still part of 'the Web' as I understand it
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koanhead eh, that came out sounding kind of confrontational, which I didn't intend
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koanhead What I mean is, for example, CSS must almost certainly be considered part of 'the Web' for this purpose
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koanhead but then what about XML? if you're going to ajax, you need xml or at least json
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koanhead and then you need to understand how to feed that data to the backend, etc.
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koanhead just trying to figure out where the line is (should be?) drawn
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snarfed koanhead: all fair questions
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snarfed not to put words in bret's mouth…but i'd say, he wasn't intending to define "web"
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snarfed stuff like that is of course fuzzy and subjective
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snarfed the goal was more to help us focus a bit and rally around a roughly common cause
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snarfed we probably wouldn't try to draw hard and fast lines, but instead go for the common sense fuzzy line that most people will agree on
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Loqi tantek: benwerd left you a message 3 hours, 18 minutes ago: A CSS tweak that would appeal to the pedant in me: #creators img { width: 128px
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Loqi tantek: bret left you a message 3 hours, 8 minutes ago: Quickly read through it. Looks so much better and purposeful! I'll give a deeper look asap
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tantek thanks bret!
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+36) "move TOC up slightly" (view diff)
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tantek benwerd - thanks for the main page tweak improvement
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-8) "edit different" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-25) "/* Welcome to the IndieWeb */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+5) "tighten up spacing just a bit" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/SF (+7) "/* Guest List */ switch to smaller icon for j12t to make it smaller than 128px wide" (view diff)
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tantek welcome back benwerd
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tantek thanks for the main page tweak improvement
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benwerd good evening
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benwerd tantek, snarfed & (absent) barnabywalters - thanks for some webmentions prods. Improved parsing for reshares, bridgy, some erroneously repeated content, and a few other things.
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snarfed benwerd: i saw! nice work!
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snarfed glad to see it
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snarfed hey, btw, that browser extension reply button you use, is it idno-specific?
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benwerd no - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Social_API
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snarfed thanks!
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benwerd np :) I think it's a neat API - just wish it also worked with Firefox Mobile
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snarfed true!
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snarfed wait, sorry. so, the button itself…it's implemented with this api? or bundled in there somewhere?
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benwerd I moved my share code so it also works with bookmarklets, and I'm going to attempt to glue that into my Android workflow that way
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benwerd The button is implemented with that API
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snarfed got it. is the button available anywhere yet?
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benwerd It creates a share button in Firefox, which in turn points to a share URL on my site
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benwerd So support for the API is in released Firefox right now
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benwerd I'm not sure what else uses it in the wild
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snarfed ok. and the UI modification based on the current h-entry (for e.g. rsvps), it looked like that was in the button UI, not on your site…?
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benwerd Oh, I see
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benwerd No, that's Idno
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benwerd The share page goes and parses the target URL, and adjusts the content type appropriately
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benwerd It would be relatively simple for me to turn that into a glue service though
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benwerd So you could use your own pages for different kinds of content
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snarfed right. cool, thanks for the explanation
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aaronpk tantek: the FB event is a posse of my event
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aaronpk cause I made it to test bridgy
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aaronpk also reaaaallly feeling the need to get photos into my notes stream easily #itching
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benwerd !tell barnabywalters Good catch re: your icon - I wasn't passing a URL in all cases to convert to absolute URLs. Fixed!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek greetings #indiewebcamp folks - the HTML5DevConf Spring Call for Speakers has gone out: http://www.meetup.com/sfhtml5/events/162761202/ - in case anyone is interested in proposing any indieweb related talks
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tantek the conference has a fairly broad scope - so consider proposing a talk!
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Jihaisse Hello
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/212038/1453049941575679/36802236 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Jeena !tell tantek check out Scott Hanselman's blog post about people focused UIs http://www.hanselman.com/blog/WhyIsntPeopleCentricUIDesignTakingOff.aspx
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@kevinmarks @FrancescaHeath @technorati remembers it's #indieweb roots? (twitter.com/_/status/428116576835862528)
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Loqi barnabywalters: benwerd left you a message 5 hours, 16 minutes ago: Good catch re: your icon - I wasn't passing a URL in all cases to convert to absolute URLs. Fixed!
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Jeena So many problems ^^ http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Why_permashortcitation_instead_of_a_link and http://indiewebcamp.com/original-post-discovery are kind of mutable exclusive, as soon as twitter starts autolinking .me domains even (ttk.me t4Pc2) will be linked
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barnabywalters Jeena: apart from tantek, it seems like most people who’ve tried using permashortcitations have switched to clickable links fairly quickly
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barnabywalters e.g. aaronpk, benwerd
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barnabywalters although original post discovery takes the text content of twitter posts, so should work with both regardless of how twitter auto-links
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Jeena I see, but even for the couple of longer notes which didn't fit into a tweet I got people who were trying to tell me to fit everything into 140 chars so they wouldn't need to click on the link
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Jeena so it is the link which bothers people
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barnabywalters Jeena: everyone seems to get different reactions to truncated tweets
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barnabywalters I’ve only ever had one person mention that it bothers them
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Jeena on the other side, I could just say fuck it, if it bothers you, just unfollow me
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barnabywalters Jeena: maybe try explaining the benefits of POSSE before the blunt approach ;)
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Jeena hehe yeah, you might be right ^^
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tobiastom hehe
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jonnybarnes one advantage of permashortcitations is they take less characters
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jonnybarnes so you have more characters for the note itself
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jonnybarnes obviously I think if you truncate the note for twitter then add a clickable link to the original note
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aaronpk it's worth noting that as soon as twitter starts auto-linking short TLDs like "ttk.me" then the "ttk.me t4UB2" will require more characters than "ttk.me/t4UB2" (since all links on twitter count as the same length since they're all t.co'd)
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barnabywalters yeah, at that point permashortcitations will not be very useful — either they’ll fall out of use or another hack discovered to prevent auto-linking
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barnabywalters by then canonical copies might be so much more valuable than silo copies due to bridgy that actual links are worth having in all cases
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Loqi tantek: Jeena left you a message 6 hours, 25 minutes ago: check out Scott Hanselman's blog post about people focused UIs http://www.hanselman.com/blog/WhyIsntPeopleCentricUIDesignTakingOff.aspx
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tantek thanks Jeena - just read it
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barnabywalters the comment thread on that article is actually quite interesting
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tantek Jeena, this "On the desktop, though, I never see this." - it's called the buddy list on any IM client. Duh. ;)
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barnabywalters I was playing with plan9 recently — the plumber is rather an interesting take on webactions-like UI
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benwerd brianloveswords, tantek: do you both have some time (over IM or otherwise) to divvy up SF tasks at some point?
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tantek heck even to brainstorm tasks!
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benwerd that too, for sure
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@snarfed_org @AndySylvester99 still interested? join us on wed! i use wordpress and @pfefferle's plugins too, i'd love to chat. http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/428235652455342080)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/snarfed_org/428235652455342080/961862718 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@benwerd I'm looking forward to Homebrew Website Club tomorrow. You should join us, either in SF or Portland: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/428239245396815872)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/im-looking-forward-to-homebrew-website-club-tomorrow-you-should linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (pingback)
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@snarfed_org RT @benwerd: I'm looking forward to Homebrew Website Club tomorrow. You should join us, either in SF or Portland: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/428239595684106240)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/benwerd/428239245396815872/428239595684106240 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/428239245396815872/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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brianloveswords benwerd, tantek: yep, I should have some time this week. Probably not today, but tomorrow after 1:00pm EST is open for me so far.
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benwerd brianloveswords: cool. I actually just dropped you an email too. Day job is what it is, but I could talk at (eg) 1pm PST / 4pm EST? I'm bounded by Homebrew Website Club in the evening.
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tantek I can chat on IRC during then too
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tantek we can just use the channel
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benwerd That works for me too
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benwerd Then it's nicely transparent and documented :)
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tantek and potentially we can get help / volunteers!
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benwerd brianloveswords, tantek: I think, if that works for everyone, let's make it a date.
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snarfed.org edited /WordPress (+99) "mark plugins that require FTP" (view diff)
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andysylvester.com edited /User:Andysylvester.com (+179) (view diff)
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benwerd Why do WordPress plugins require FTP?
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benwerd Or some WordPress plugins, rather?
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andysylvester.com edited /WordPress (+109) "/* webmention */" (view diff)
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snarfed benwerd: not specifically FTP necessarily
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snarfed benwerd: sorry, mis-fired answer ...
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snarfed wordpress has an online db of plugins, and its web admin console lets you search and install plugins from there
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andysylvester.com edited /WordPress (+91) "/* People using WordPress */" (view diff)
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snarfed if a plugin isn't in the db, you have to put its files onto your server via FTP or SCP or whatever
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andysylvester.com edited /WordPress (+1) "/* People using WordPress */" (view diff)
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andysylvester.com edited /webmention (+285) "/* IndieWeb implementations */" (view diff)
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andysylvester.com edited /webmention (+42) "/* IndieWeb implementations */" (view diff)
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benwerd snarfed: oh, gotcha. For installation.
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benwerd That's okay then. (I refuse to run FTP on my servers, and I know I'm not alone.)
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snarfed definitely. the wp community skews fairly non-technical, so "FTP" is shorthand for "know techie stuff"
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aaronpk i think ftp is only required if the web server doesn't have write permissions to itself
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aaronpk if it does have write access, then the web interface can just install stuff and do in-place upgrades whenever it wants
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AndySylvester I have posted a screencast on installing and testing the Webmention plugin for WordPress, would appreciate any feedback! http://andysylvester.com/2014/01/27/working-with-webmention-video/
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bret.io edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+6) "/* RSVP */ Added ... to portland list" (view diff)
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snarfed i saw that, AndySylvester. nice work! looks like the post about it is http://andysylvester.com/2014/01/27/working-with-webmention-video/#comments ? if you posse it, we'll gladly spread it!
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snarfed aaronpk: right, for plugins in wordpress's db. the "requires ftp" wiki markers are mainly for plugins that aren't.
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aaronpk oh interesting
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AndySylvester99 Snarfed: I did upload my video to my site (andysylvester.com), but could not get it to stream/progressively download
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AndySylvester99 Until I figure out how to do that, I decided to use Vimeo for now.
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bret.io edited /events/2014-01-15-homebrew-website-club (+78) "/* Notes */ Added link to the meetings IRC logs" (view diff)
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AndySylvester99 I will be at the Portland meeting tomorrow.
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aaronpk great!
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bret.io edited /events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (+74) "/* URLs */ Added Calegator event" (view diff)
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@AndySylvester99 @snarfed_org @pfefferle Ryan, I will be at the Portland meeting, would love to talk sometime about WordPress and IndieWeb stuff (twitter.com/_/status/428260042005942272)
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bret aaronpk are you going to be there tomorrow?
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aaronpk yep!
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bret \o.
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bret \o/
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bret iirc pete wanted to come too
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/snarfed_org/428235652455342080/428260042005942272 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-01-29-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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