#indiewebcamp 2014-02-04

2014-02-04 UTC
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aaronpk snarfed: any idea why this reply is truncated? http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/02/03/1/postgis-esripdx
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snarfed hey! yeah, that's probably a change i rolled out last night. bridgy h-entries now have p-names
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aaronpk oh!
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snarfed for replies, they're a snippet of the full content
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aaronpk interesting
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aaronpk i'm getting a little frustrated with the whole p-name vs p-content thing
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snarfed the full content should still be there
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snarfed lol
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snarfed i won't argue with you
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snarfed gory details on the bridgy change here: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/48
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snarfed but examples are probably easier
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snarfed e.g. http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/t/430201334072360960/430201989838815232
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aaronpk i'm going to have to go through this and update my display code to match http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_display
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snarfed oh boy!
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aaronpk i think i'm preferring p-name over p-content in some cases
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aaronpk oh but i remember the other problem
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aaronpk when the content is actually an article, then I do want to show the p-name, not the p-content
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snarfed ah
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snarfed i think bridgy gets the h-as-* types right
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aaronpk but it's hard to tell when the p-name is explicitly set vs automatically parsed
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snarfed got it
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aaronpk not your fault, kind of the fault of the microformats parsing algorithm
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aaronpk i got kind of annoyed with this yesterday wwhen updating my comments/links view on my articles http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/10/11/1/the-future-of-quantified-self-devices
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aaronpk notice how amber's link doesn't highlight the title of her article, but barnaby's does
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snarfed agreed, i kind of hide whenever mf2 etc come up
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aaronpk waves at tantek
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snarfed they are necessary, but they're just so uninteresting, at least to me personally
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snarfed no don't do that!
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snarfed blushes
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk no it's the critical piece in all this, we have to get it right
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snarfed oh definitely
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snarfed i'm just glad other people are more conscientious than me and get it right so i can just stand on their shoulders :P
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gRegorLove !tell tantek I don't follow what you mean here: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-03/line/1391457098 about dates matching up and computing an implied TZ.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek gRegorLove - yeah I'll write it up on the wiki as promised and hopefully that will make it more clear.
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Loqi tantek: gRegorLove left you a message 36 seconds ago: I don't follow what you mean here: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-02-03/line/1391457098 about dates matching up and computing an implied TZ.
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gRegorLove About 90% done on webmentions being done, woo!
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gRegorLove Pardon that redundant, repetitive sentence :)
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tantek awesome awesomeness!
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tantek :)
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tantek BTW there's a bunch of us indieweb folks that went to this YxYY thing last year and it was a blast. It's now YaYY and tickets now open to public - will sell out fast if you're interested: http://www.yesandyesyes.com/#say-yes
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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tantek cc: bret, hadleybeeman, hober
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DeltaWhy anyone here use jekyll/octopress? I'm looking to move my site away from wordpress
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DeltaWhy in particular I'm wondering if it would be feasible to have a dynamic posting interface on top of jekyll or if I should look at something else
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Jeena good morning! Why can't I log in with IndieAuth to the Microformats Wiki?
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bret DeltaWhy: I do!
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bret I started with jekyll, but now moving away from it for a dynamic web framework instead
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Jeena sometimes it is frustrating, I want to have program so much stuff but I just don't have the time to do everything myself :-/
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bret I know the feeling!
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bret Jeena: when you feel that, its a good time to figure out what you can work on that is imediately useful/better with the time you do have
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bret sometimes its not as lofty, but it beats feeling that way :)
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Jeena hehe yeah, I could ditch all the work for clients then I would have all the time in the world to do my own stuff :D
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Jeena that is what I think is the cool thing about being rich, you don't have to please other people and can do what you yourself think is important/cool
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bret it would be cooler if everyone could do that
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bret tantek, maybe i can go when I get a real job )
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bret :)*
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Jeena that is what the unconditional basic income will be for in some distant future, perhaps
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bret DeltaWhy: It is a great way to do static sites. Its kind of hard to do POSSE and distributed web interactions with beyond manual webmentions and webmention.io
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bret but I can totally give you any pointers if you are trying to learn it
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DeltaWhy yeah if I was just going to be blogging it would be no question, but if I want to add notes I'm not sure it's the right route
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bret You can totally do notes! They just dont end up on twitter automatically
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bret unless you build something that can figure out all of htat
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bret that*
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DeltaWhy the main difference is for notes I would need a low-friction mobile-friendly interface since I currently tweet from my phone most of the time
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bret That is going to be hard with jekyll
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DeltaWhy what I do like with jekyll is using simple yaml/markdown files as the source rather than a db
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DeltaWhy makes backup and such really easy
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bret its pretty cool to be able to go back to any point in history and see what the site is, and distributed offline development is pretty neat too, but what I really want is a way to update the site from any device
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bret and the github online editor isn't cutting it
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DeltaWhy yeah I'm just wondering if there's a good middle ground where I can write long-form in vim offline, and also post notes easily online
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bret http://prose.io was aiming to fix this, but its to unstable and hard to hack on
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bret DeltaWhy: Idea... Its hacky as hell but if you set up a jekyll repository and ran the jekyll watch that output the rendered site into apache or nginx, it wouldnt be too hard to make a web interface that could present a form with the proper fields that could add a new post to the jekyll site folder
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bret that way you get jekyll and a light posting inferface
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DeltaWhy yeah that's sort of what I was thinking
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bret Authenticate -> Webform -> save front-matter markdown file into the _post directory -> jekyll build --watch into a webserver folder
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bret sounds rickety, but would probrably work to some degree
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bret DeltaWhy: I've been dorking around with node/express using front-matter markdown files as a data store
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DeltaWhy I think it would be fine for posting, but if I wanted to start adding webmention support, comments, etc. I may be better off building something from scratch
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bret I came across this the other day: http://jsantell.github.io/poet/ it loads jekyll style posts into ram, renders and serves it
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edrex hi
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edrex hi bret
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bret it might be a better place to start, or gain inspiration from... i have not had a chance to play with it yet
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bret hey edrex :)
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edrex i just tuned in to this channel, and I was like "hey, that conversation is relevant to my interests"
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bret static!
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Jeena Or you could do it like flickr does, via email
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edrex except, i kind of gave up on jekyll and prose while back
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bret yeah fo sho
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edrex prose had a bad rewrite
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edrex and looks to be mostly unmaintained now
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Jeena you can have a private email address which only you can post to because only you know the email address
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bret I was adding some project pages to my site though, and I love how freeform it is... new markdown file and you just type and your site get bigger
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Jeena and then if something comes in there you post it as a note, DeltaWhy
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DeltaWhy that's not bad although I haven't really used node, more of a rails guy right now
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bret DeltaWhy: Look for a rails/ruby project
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bret jekyll is ruby!
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edrex bret yeah, i think prose is really well designed
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bret edrex: its a shame :(
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edrex i have contemplated forking it
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bret the source is all crazy backbone stuff
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edrex but it's not in my critical path right now
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bret and its really complicated
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bret lots of work, not much payoff
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edrex before the rewrite there wasn't any backbone
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edrex yeah
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bret honestly I just want a webform
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bret that works
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edrex that posts to github?
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bret i kind of wanted to get away from github
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edrex yeah, so where would it post to?
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bret or at least, have it as a side channel
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edrex there is git http
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bret move to my virtual server
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edrex and then gitlab has a REST api similar to github
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bret but I'm probrably overthinking it
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DeltaWhy I should probably just get something up with octopress and worry about it later - the majority of the work is going to be building the layout/theme
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Loqi I agree
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bret i would prefer to not have to host gitlab
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edrex bret yeah
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edrex there is gitlab.com
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edrex can't vouch for uptime, but it seems fairly solid
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bret are you still using the other static generator?
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edrex i haven't updated my blog in awhile. working on a couchdb app. going to loop back and clean up my blog probably this week
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edrex but yeah, it is using harp and deploying to s3
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bret harp yeah
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edrex i've been digging couchdb lately
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bret I dont know anything about dbs :[
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edrex well, it's not really a db
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bret I'm still trying to catch up on my software engineering basics
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edrex it's really an application server for client-side apps
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bret hrm
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edrex so you don't have to write your own serverside in Ruby or whatever
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bret that unhosted stuff was way cool
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edrex I really like having a standard data storage and retrieval interface
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edrex and with pouchdb, getting data back and forth from the client is pretty effortless
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edrex couchdb has a similar focus to unhosted. but it's a lot farther along.
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bret Is that different than what couch originally set out to make?
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@grantmacken Thoughts on creating notes and syndicating to Twitter #indieweb #POSSE... http://markup.co.nz/archive/2014/02/04/152711 (twitter.com/_/status/430566786681929730)
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bret later
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@xtof_fr RT @caseorganic: A not so Svbtle reminder to own your words. #indieweb http://www.gregoryciotti.com/own-your-words/ (a post about data ownership on @Svbtle and … (twitter.com/_/status/430593797635198976)
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@nitot RT @caseorganic: A not so Svbtle reminder to own your words. #indieweb http://www.gregoryciotti.com/own-your-words/ (a post about data ownership on @Svbtle and … (twitter.com/_/status/430602753266950144)
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@nxD4n @pfefferle is it possible to disable #webmention for the same site? If I mention http://nxd4n.nixekinder.be/webmention-and-semantic-link-back/ in another post, do I need linkb? (twitter.com/_/status/430616275039965184)
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Jihaisse Hello
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jjuran The events page is out of date. It lists 2014-01-29 for the Homebrew Website Club meeting.
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jjuran aaronpk: ^
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@MadeMyDay @tobiastom @helloanselm jepp. Wenn Indieweb am Mittwoch gewesen wäre, wäre ich dabei gewesen. Hätte hätte Fahrradkette. (twitter.com/_/status/430637427221622784)
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gRegorLove Is this note on http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention still valid, or should it be removed? "See the Webmention Spec (note: out of date as of 2013-10-17, resolved issues not reflected, fails to include rel=webmention) for a full description of the protocol."
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gRegorLove The spec appears up to date to me. Perhaps that's when webmention.org wasn't just github?
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cweiske yes
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cweiske it once was a separate page instead of a redirect
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gRegorLove So I can safely remove that comment?
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cweiske yes
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gregorlove.com edited /webmention (-92) "Removed dated comment about webmention spec being out of date" (view diff)
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tantek so Twitter finally made their fonts consistent between lists of tweets pages, and tweet permalink pages
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tantek (used to have some serif font on permalinks, and sans serif everywhere else)
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jonnybarnes as part of #newnewnewTwitter?
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tantek lol jonnybarnes
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aaronpk the new large font is rather.... large
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@offrayLC @kleper @GetNikola Tienes razón. Debería ser más fácil para le gente tener su propio servidor, como proponen la @indiewebcamp y @cznweb (twitter.com/_/status/430749807905218560)
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jonnybarnes tbh I very rarely use Twitter through the website
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@offrayLC @Kwpolska Precisely what @cznweb / #ArkOs & the @indiewebcamp are pioneering is a way to own a server lowering the cost and 3dr dependencies (twitter.com/_/status/430751160954126337)
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tantek aaronpk indeed!
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tantek and yet - all white default background / UI - that feels familiar ;)
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tantek heh, the blue bird in the middle of the their header bar is not clickable. duh.
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jonnybarnes bah, I thought I fixed a bug but my fix makes another test fail
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EHLOVader Had this been shared before?
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EHLOVader http://youtu.be/y4GB_NDU43Q
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EHLOVader interesting look at how trusting a silo for all your services, accounts, email, etc is a single point of failure and could turn disastrous
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EHLOVader it is a fictional tale, like a copypasta/creepypasta story from message boards
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gRegorLove Clicking the twitter bird at the top jumps you back to the top of the current page.
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gRegorLove I don't think that's too bad.
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EHLOVader use javascript:
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EHLOVader instead of # for the href
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EHLOVader there is a javascript error in it probably
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EHLOVader ideally you would put http://twitter.com/username as the href with a javascript fallback
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EHLOVader this is the twitter layout though right?
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EHLOVader nevermind
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EHLOVader I like it
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EHLOVader https://twitter.com/midnight/status/430442811339444226/photo/1
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gRegorLove Talking to me, EHLOVader? I was referring to the home timeline or interactions. If you're scrolled down and click the twitter bird it takes you back to top.
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gRegorLove This is still the best way to view Twitter on the web, IMO: http://jxnblk.github.io/Twipster/ :)
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EHLOVader have you heard of bitlbee?
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gRegorLove Nope
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EHLOVader it is twitter, xmpp, aim etc in irc
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EHLOVader although I wouldn't mind twitter in this form too http://codereddit.com/
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EHLOVader bitlbee is one of the first things I will be adding to sovereign and contributing back
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EHLOVader I need to work on that tonight...
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EHLOVader not throwing that together yet is holding up my edits for the wiki
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EHLOVader oh here is one for your marketing team http://pcottle.github.io/MSWorddit/
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EHLOVader so they can read reddit without turning heads
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snarfed hey caseorganic, very not urgent, but just fyi, this page of yours has an odd redirect loop: http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/02/04/2/led-lighting%20change
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snarfed maybe caused by the space in the permalink? replacing it with a dash has the same problem
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aaronpk oh odd, yes that seems to be a problem with the space
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snarfed ah right, she runs p3k
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aaronpk my bad
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EHLOVader do you guys use humans.txt on your sites?
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aaronpk i don't need a humans.txt, my site is just me
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aaronpk also, invisible metadata
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EHLOVader lol, not always invisible
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snarfed agreed, humans.txt— imho
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EHLOVader https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/humanstxt/pocdghmbbodjiclginddlaimdaholhfk/details?hl=en
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aaronpk heh
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snarfed oh man
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EHLOVader although http://perishablepress.com/humans-txt/
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snarfed so, the snippet there says humans.txt is in use by google, flickr, and others
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EHLOVader yup
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snarfed and yet google and flickr's humans.txt files both say "this was made by lots of people! more details on our web site!"
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snarfed makes the case perfectly
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EHLOVader eh
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EHLOVader still there
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aaronpk hahaha
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snarfed i mean, it makes the case perfectly that it's a solution in search of a problem
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EHLOVader it doesn't say "see our site for more info on who" it says "if you wnat to work for us here are our jobs"
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snarfed heh, even worse
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aaronpk i like how both point to their jobs page
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EHLOVader I have seen that a lot too
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EHLOVader in source of sites comments with "you think you could do better, here are our jobs, come do it"
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snarfed at least it's pretty harmless. just seems silly to me, solution in search of a problem
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EHLOVader it is, certainly
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EHLOVader but not quite meta data... just shout outs
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EHLOVader often on corp sites where they wouldn't take kindly to outward shouts
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snarfed aaronpk, your consolidated likes are looking pretty good! i'm jealous
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snarfed e.g. http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2013/09/15/1/indieauth-now-supports-openid-delegation#likes
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aaronpk yeah! that was this weekend!
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snarfed looks like you combine likes and reposts and cap at 10 icons
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snarfed seems reasonable
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aaronpk nope
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aaronpk only showing likes right now
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aaronpk not sure why there are only 10 icons showing up lol
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aaronpk also..twitter says there are 6 likes
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snarfed ah, so then reposts are todo?
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snarfed maybe two of the likes didn't have pictures
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aaronpk that could be
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snarfed ahh ok, so if the like and repost counts are duplicated, then 10 total, sure
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snarfed maybe you're de-duping webmentions themselves but not their counts
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aaronpk ah that is likely
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gRegorLove I have a humans.txt, but I was wondering about it last night as I was working on webmentions. Could be a problem with rel=author lookups that look for an h-card.
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gRegorLove I forgot I had it and admittedly just added it at the time because it seemed interesting. Probably not very useful.
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aaronpk snarfed: ok I fixed the redirect bug
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snarfed aaronpk: nice, that was quick!
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snarfed that'll make https://www.brid.gy/#twitter-caseorganic happy
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aaronpk was simple, forgot to urldecode when comparing the request with the canonical post
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aaronpk oh cool. will it re-try for a while?
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snarfed yeah, it retries individual wms 30 times and 3 days, whichever is longest
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snarfed backing off to 1/hr
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aaronpk cool
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KevinMarks twitter standardised it the wrong way, IMO
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EHLOVader btw, you may be interested
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EHLOVader http://debatelive.org/
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EHLOVader this is happening tonight
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EHLOVader nye http://goo.gl/sX2sXd vs ken http://goo.gl/Vo8SJe
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@ShaneHudson @pfefferle Is the IndieWeb Wordpress plugin stable at the moment? (twitter.com/_/status/430827533823926273)
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@pfefferle @ShaneHudson have to rewrite some plugins so I could use it also for the indieweb plugin... (twitter.com/_/status/430828917390589953)
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@pfefferle @nxD4n not yet, but it is definitively planned https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/issues/11 (twitter.com/_/status/430829028183121920)
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tantek aaronpk - I just resent a webmention for the comment on that post of yours and it added a *new* comment!
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aaronpk uhoh
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aaronpk the openid one?
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tantek I should say - I just copy/pasted the URL into the form at the bottom of the post
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tantek didn't even need to curl anything :P
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tantek yeah
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Loqi definitely
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tantek that one
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aaronpk odd, why does it think the url is tantek.com/2013/?
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tantek problem with the form?
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aaronpk nah all it does is make a post request to the webmention endpoint
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aaronpk it's not really a separate flow
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tantek I can try it again
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tantek uh, I think there might be a problem with your webmention receiving processing
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tantek it's not handling "source" redirects
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tantek adds a few more duplicates ;)
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aaronpk eep
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tantek perhaps this should be a MUST in the spec?
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aaronpk i'm supposed to be storing each mention individually, but only rendering unique ones
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tantek rendering error on all the permalinks
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tantek except the first
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tantek the first webmention there just has the link to my site, and no icon, but correct permalink on the date
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tantek the three I submitted through your web form have my icon and comment content etc., but permalinks are all truncated at /2013/
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aaronpk there's something wrong with determining the URL though, cause the permalink says /2013/
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aaronpk not sure why
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tantek that's only when I submitted them through your webform
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aaronpk but i have a feeling that's why it gets added multiple times
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tantek the first one (without icon or comment content) has the right permalink
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tantek and they're all the same "comment"
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aaronpk i'll have to check it out later
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tantek stops sending duplicate webmentions with slightly different redirect URLs.
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aaronpk what are you sending as the URL?
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aaronpk oh lol http://tantek.com/2013/258/t3/one-more-for-good-measure
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tantek I just copy pasted into your "Send Webmention" form
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tantek from the initial comment that was there (just below the row of Twitter thumb-up icons)
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aaronpk that should be identical to making a post request from any other source
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aaronpk but yeah i probably need to test when the source sends a 301 better
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tantek perhaps your webmention handling changed since the initial comment was webmentioned?
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tantek since I'm pretty sure my markup didn't change (that much?) since then, and yet you're finding more info at that permalink now
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aaronpk ah yeah I probably have an updated version of php-mf2
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tantek interesting coincidence that /2013/ URL is the <base> of the page
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tantek goes to indiewebcamp.com/webmention to add some more implementation guidance
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tantek.com edited /webmention (+567) "improve definition per webmention.org, add explicit implementation note - must follow redirects, move FAQ to near issues, keep "Why" at top" (view diff)
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tantek ok aaronpk I explicitly added "must follow redirects" to implementation notes since it is a potential "gotcha"
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tantek and well done on the Twitter "likes" icons!
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aaronpk thanks!
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tantek the black&white FB like icon next to the row of icons with the Twitter bird "stamp" on them is certainly a bit cognitively dissonant!
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tantek ;)
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aaronpk indeed hehe
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aaronpk mostly just cause I am not syndicating anything to FB so there are no FB mentions yet
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aaronpk but in reality all profile photos from twitter users have the logo on them now, not just the ones in the "like" section
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tantek makes sense
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aaronpk and not many people are sending "like" posts from their own sites yet
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tantek originally I was trying to resend the webmention to hopefully see my comment there updated/expanded with icon and comment text BTW
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tantek I didn't expect it would add a new one!
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aaronpk me either :( I thought I was handling that properly
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tantek also I think it was the first time trying your shiny "Send Webmention" form :)
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tantek I was excited to be able to update your post purely using the UI on the post itself!
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snarfed aaronpk, fwiw i've started sending likes from my own site. mixed results so far. 0/2 with no content, 1/2 with content
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snarfed i'll keep at it though
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aaronpk snarfed: cool!
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aaronpk you should like something on my site!
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snarfed done, http://snarfed.org/2014-02-04_re-today-is-the-last-day-of-luckily-can-be-used-as-a-replacement
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aaronpk snarfed: "no link found"
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snarfed it's a u-like w/o u-in-reply-to
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snarfed http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://snarfed.org/2014-02-04_re-today-is-the-last-day-of-luckily-can-be-used-as-a-replacement
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aaronpk odd, I see it ther
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snarfed it has no text, if that matters
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aaronpk how did I manage to break all of my webmention handling
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snarfed lol. don't stress, like handling is way way early
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snarfed probably most people who actually do it are overfitted to bridgy right now
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aaronpk i need a test suite to run against my site or something
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snarfed hell yes!
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snarfed for everyone
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aaronpk i wonder how that would work
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snarfed if you have a local/staging install of your site, i can imagine pointing something at it and letting it generate a bunch, with different types, then telling you what to check for
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aaronpk HA it's cause of your single quotes, and i'm using a regex to check for the link *headdesk*
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snarfed oh man
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snarfed funny
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aaronpk man. they say never to parse html with regexes
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snarfed i just don't call it "parsing"
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snarfed scrape-and-pray, baby
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aaronpk that's the *only* thing I use a regex for, to check for the presence of a link before running it through the actual mf2 parser
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aaronpk snarfed: updated http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/02/01/1/
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snarfed nice!
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aaronpk (i re-sent it for you)
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aaronpk because internet
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snarfed <3
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