#indiewebcamp 2014-03-14

2014-03-14 UTC
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edrex hi all, talking about having a PDX Camlistore meetup Mon the 31st, probably with a concurrent google hangout
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edrex kind of an installfest / workshop
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edrex if anyone is interested in that.
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snarfed edrex: camlistore is great!
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edrex snarfed: just got an instance running on my VPS with S3 blob storage https://gist.github.com/edrex/9539436
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edrex now i'm importing 15 years of text journal entries
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edrex very exciting
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edrex planning to replace my current statically generated blog with one that is generated directly from camlistore
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edrex really like the idea of serving a whole bunch of little sites backed by one content store
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edrex which is also a filesystem :D
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edrex snarfed: are you pdx?
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snarfed nah, sf
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snarfed i''ve known brad for a long time
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edrex oh, nice
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tantek aaronpk - I just got a 413 error from indiewebcamp.com when trying to upload a photo from last night :(
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@kevinmarks “…the past decade was when the read/write Web flourished, the next 10 years will… be the era of the #IndieWeb.” http://ricm.ac/2014/03/13/web25/ (twitter.com/_/status/444269049015320576)
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aaronpk ooh I bet I didn't change the max upload size on the new server
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@iboxifoo RT @kevinmarks: “…the past decade was when the read/write Web flourished, the next 10 years will… be the era of the #IndieWeb.” http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/444270029320638464)
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@ralph_hansen RT @kevinmarks: “…the past decade was when the read/write Web flourished, the next 10 years will… be the era of the #IndieWeb.” http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/444272801449381888)
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kylewm !tell KartikPrabhu I sent you another PR, replacing the absolute imports with explicit relative imports. from what I can tell, they work across versions and should behave like the relative imports used to in your development environment.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek aaronpk - and the server logs appear to be starting midnight at UTC, rather than Pacific
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tantek e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-14
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aaronpk Hah oh man
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tantek and it looks like yes, the upload limit is the default 2MB :( http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Upload
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@MaryTrigiani Just what is the "indie web?" Are we demonizing publishers again? Don't you think there's room for everyone? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/444293497625915392)
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@letsgoduke RT @MaryTrigiani: Just what is the "indie web?" Are we demonizing publishers again? Don't you think there's room for everyone? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/444293701528199168)
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@MaryTrigiani I mean, I'm trying to read about this #indieweb movement and cannot understand the writing. Seems to me we should be concerned about *that.* (twitter.com/_/status/444294302454140928)
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pauloppenheim LOL
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pauloppenheim "To enjoy this site you'll need to update your Flash Player. It's easy, painless and will take
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pauloppenheim just a moment... "
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pauloppenheim trololololo
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@MaryHodder @kevinmarks @MaryTrigiani you two laugh me up.. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/444297812906229761)
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CheckDavid You guys never work with web browser ad systems do you?
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@MaryTrigiani @kevinmarks Would love some decks about #indieweb Thanks, K. Just share the URL. (twitter.com/_/status/444297926764797952)
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@MaryTrigiani OK, this is good. From what I can see on the phone. #indieweb defined. http://t.co/RgDl0s4xrn. Thank you, @kevinmarks. A man with answers. (twitter.com/_/status/444300771287261184)
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@notenoughneon Uploaded my blog code to github: https://github.com/notenoughneon/neonblog #indieweb (http://notenoughneon.com/p/201403131928) (twitter.com/_/status/444300791038234624)
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/article/2014/03/14/1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/article/2014/03/14/1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://kylewm.com/article/2014/03/14/1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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kylewm ack, sorry for the repeat mentiions
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acegiak does anyone know if its possible to replace all mentions of acegiak.machinespirit.net in the wiki with acegiak.net or should i just do it manually when i get home?
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/12802152/10100825555067949/10100825555067949_8511810 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/12802152/10100825555067949/10100825555067949_8512368 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/12802152/10100825555067949/10100825555067949_8512680 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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kylewm.com edited /projects (+464) "/* experimental */ added Red Wind to the list of softwares" (view diff)
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@ricmac Good Aug 2013 overview of the #indieweb movement, by @RWW alumni @klintron on @Wired http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/444332223785746432)
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@ricmac "...the last 10 years of the web have been devoid of this feeling of playing in [a] sandbox" @caseorganic #indieweb http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/03/06/1/indiewebcamp-sf-2014 (twitter.com/_/status/444333172793167872)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/12802152/10100825555067949/10100825555067949_8512782 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/12802152/10100825555067949/10100825555067949_8512788 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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@klintron RT @ricmac: Good Aug 2013 overview of the #indieweb movement, by @RWW alumni @klintron on @Wired http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/08/indie-web/ (twitter.com/_/status/444334756457508866)
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@kevinmarks RT @notenoughneon: Uploaded my blog code to github: https://github.com/notenoughneon/neonblog #indieweb (http://notenoughneon.com/p/201403131928) (twitter.com/_/status/444336262845964290)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: the new PR works!
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: kylewm left you a message 4 hours, 8 minutes ago: I sent you another PR, replacing the absolute imports with explicit relative imports. from what I can tell, they work across versions and should behave like the relative imports used to in your development environment.
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KartikPrabhu I am pretty confused about that now
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kylewm KartikPrabhu, phew, glad to hear it. I think the problem is if you current working directory is inside the mf2py module, it wasn't able to find the mf2py.parser package... from what I read from Guido, it sounds like the explicit relative imports (the from . style) fix the complaints people had with relative imports in the past, so they should be fine
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KartikPrabhu I see thanks for fixing this. I was completely lost as to why it didn't work
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kylewm you're welcome and also sorry for breaking it in the first place ;)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: here it is http://kartikprabhu.com/connection/mfparser
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snarfed fun!
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KartikPrabhu though I couldn't get the result to display as well as barnabywalters' php-mf2
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KartikPrabhu ^^ might be of interest to you too kylewm. a live demo for mf2py!
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snarfed works great!
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snarfed if you use pprint or json.dumps with indent and put the result inside a <pre>, that might work
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KartikPrabhu i tried bu t it only adds spaces no nextlines. And then the string becomes bigger than the viewport :(
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acegiak.net edited /IRC_People (-14) "acegiaks new url" (view diff)
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@ricmac Nice overview by @dangillmor from a less techie perspective -> Learning about, and deploying IndieWeb tools http://dangillmor.com/2014/03/08/learning-about-and-deploying-indieweb-tools/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/444344145998393344)
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acegiak.net edited /WordPress (-42) "/* People using WordPress */" (view diff)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu++ that is going to be very useful!!
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 7 karma
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KartikPrabhu woohoo!
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acegiak.net edited /WordPress-fr (-42) "acegiaks new domain" (view diff)
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acegiak.net edited /reader (-14) "acegiaks new domain" (view diff)
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: sorry, yeah, i think pprint needs the indent kwarg to output newlines, like json.dumps
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snarfed but they definitely both do
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@ricmac One odd thing I've noticed about the #indieweb sites I've been visiting today...not many have RSS or subscribe buttons. Lots of social tho. (twitter.com/_/status/444345162698096640)
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KartikPrabhu will have to find more then
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acegiak.net edited /icon (-84) "acegiaks new domain" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: improved a bit now. thanks for the tips!
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: looks great!
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@DaveFlynn RT @notenoughneon: Uploaded my blog code to github: https://github.com/notenoughneon/neonblog #indieweb (http://notenoughneon.com/p/201403131928) (twitter.com/_/status/444348089181040643)
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acegiak.net edited /Whisperfollow (-42) "acegiaks new domain" (view diff)
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acegiak.net edited /SoundCloud (-14) "acegiaks new domain" (view diff)
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@maymaym Six easy steps to host a blog you FULLY control without paying anyone anything: http://days.maybemaimed.com/post/79534841367/bring-your-own-content-virtual-self-hosting-web#_=_ #DataPortability #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/444352777301811200)
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chrisroos.co.uk created /2014-03-09-this-week-in-the-indieweb (+9509) "Add this week in the indieweb for week beginning 3rd Mar 2014" (view diff)
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barnabywalters aaronpk: nice work moving indiewebcamp.com to the new server! there seem to be some encoding bugs in the logs, e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-13/line/1394719630
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KartikPrabhu made a web front end for mf2py: http://kartikprabhu.com/connection/mfparser cc: tommorris, barnabywalters, bear
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: nice! I’ll check it out in a minute
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: looking good! spotted a parsing issue, raising on github now
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KartikPrabhu great! more testing... :D
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barnabywalters if you make an endpoint which just returns the JSON mf2py can easily be hooked up to the official (yet slightly out of date) mf2 test suite
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KartikPrabhu i'll look into it :)
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tobiastom barnabywalters: do you have a link to that test suite?
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barnabywalters tobiastom: https://github.com/microformats/tests
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tobiastom oh, that one. yeah. thanks.
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tommorris KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 8 karma
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tobiastom I always wondered why there is no simple source.html and result.json. like this it is quite hard to use, isn't it?
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barnabywalters tobiastom: agreed
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barnabywalters glennjones built it when testing his node mf2 library
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barnabywalters it’s complicated but has the advantage of being extremely thorough — IIRC there are > 1000 tests
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tobiastom I might for it at some point and just create directories for all tests. would that be ok for you?
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tobiastom fork it.
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barnabywalters tobiastom: fine by me, I’m absolutely up for helping make it easier to test parsers
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tobiastom cool.
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barnabywalters might be worth pinging glennjones about it to see if he’s interested in simplifying it too
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tobiastom I need the raw data anyways, so I'll just create a fork, and we'll see.
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barnabywalters just out of courtesy
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tobiastom agreed.
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barnabywalters but yeah, probably the easiest thing to do is to have a test folder with h-card.html and h-card.json
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barnabywalters or rather [test-name].html and [test-name].json
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tobiastom yeah, that. and that separated by h-card or whatever.
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barnabywalters then it’s just a matter of iterating through the files and comparing the output — super easy
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tobiastom that was exactly my plan :)
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barnabywalters tobiastom: excellent! let me know if you want any help, I’m up for putting some time into this
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barnabywalters I want to make a hosted version where people can run the test suite against hosted instances of various different parsers
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barnabywalters so the easier it is the better
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KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: I'm using a fored version of mf2py : https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py so the bugs/issues might only be on that one.
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KartikPrabhu forked*
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /2014-03-09-this-week-in-the-indieweb (+88) "clarified mf2 terminology, added minimal h-entry markup" (view diff)
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barnabywalters KartikPrabhu: thanks for copying the issue over!
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KartikPrabhu np!
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chrisroos Hi, folks.
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chrisroos I've created another "this week in the indieweb" page (for last week) - http://indiewebcamp.com/2014-03-09-this-week-in-the-indieweb
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chrisroos Thanks for the amendments, barnabywalters
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barnabywalters chrisroos: not a problem — thanks for putting together the compilation!
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sebastiangreger.net edited /WordPress (+124) "/* backfeed */ tip re required plugins for Bridgy-to-WP link to work out of the box" (view diff)
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sebastiangreger.net edited /WordPress (-4) "/* webmention */ minor reformatting for easier readability" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/12802152/10100825555067949/10100825555067949_8516419 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu https://github.com/migreyes/jquery.wanker
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KartikPrabhu too much reaction...
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tobiastom so…
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tobiastom barnabywalters: not that I did had the time, I took it anyways: https://github.com/tobiastom/tests
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kylewm tobiastom: wow, I was literally looking at those tests yesterday and fretting about figuring them out
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tobiastom yeah, had that problem three times, today I just took the time…
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kylewm tobiastom++
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Loqi tobiastom has 1 karma
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tobiastom hehe, whatever that is. thanks :)
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kylewm I hope I'm allowed to bestow it
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tobiastom sure, do whatever you like :)
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tobiastom now that I know that I get points here… I'll do more! :)
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tobiastom is there a way to list the points?
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@grhmc @1Password when are you going to implement @BitTorrent 's BTSync for Mobile? #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/444511273472905216)
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kylewm !karma tobiastom
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Loqi tobiastom has 1 karma
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kylewm !karma
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Loqi kylewm has 0 karma
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kylewm Loqi so smart
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Loqi who, me?
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barnabywalters did not know how to do that
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barnabywalters kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 1 karma
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tobiastom hehe
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kylewm hooray!
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barnabywalters kylewm: nice work marking up kylewm.com with microformats2! you should add the h-cite class to p-comments on your permalink pages to scope authors and properties — at the moment they’re trickling back up to the parent h-entry
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barnabywalters e.g. http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkylewm.com%2Fnote%2F2014%2F03%2F07%2F2
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Loqi [mention] http://barryfrost.com/posts/90 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-03-19-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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kylewm barnabywalters, oh wow! i will do that, thank you for debugging me :)
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Loqi [mention] http://barryfrost.com/posts/90 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-03-19-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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tantek barnabywalters - that totally sounds like something that indiewebify could detect (unscoped p-comment stuff)
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tantek In other news, I think I figured out my problem with keeping up with Twitter
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barnabywalters tantek: yeah, improving indiewebify.me is high up on my list of stuff to do
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tantek (besides following too many people - which is a separate issue, how/when to follow/unfollow)
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Loqi [mention] http://barryfrost.com/posts/90 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-03-19-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@barryf I'm going to next week's Homebrew Website Club in London #indieweb http://barryfrost.com/posts/90 (twitter.com/_/status/444520420059148288)
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tantek barnabywalters - I meant at least capturing that as an issue for indiewebify me so you (or someone) knows to get around to it
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barnabywalters great to hear barryfrost’s going to homebrew website club — his personal site looks pretty great and seems to work really well too
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barnabywalters tantek: adding as issue now
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snarfed barnabywalters: agreed!
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snarfed his use of u-like was the first example i found in the wild when i added likes to bridgy
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barnabywalters it’s an excellent demonstration that the documentation on the wiki and the examples are more than enough to be replicable
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barnabywalters i.e. I’m pretty sure he’s never dropped into IRC
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barnabywalters waves at barryfrost if you’re lurking :)
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tantek so the problem with keeping with Twitter - and I think within that problem I found an approach to a solution
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tantek Twitter usage at some point switched from primarily notes, to primarily comments.
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tantek and by "comment" I'm including any tweet which includes a link *not* to the person's own domain.
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tantek I think FB news feed has the same problem
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bret Aww crap. Missed the meeting on wed :(
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tantek bret - you totally missed out - the Portland meeting had a strong representation - and happened to be all women!
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tantek btw - just mark your calendar - every 2 weeks, Wednesday 18:30-19:30
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bret My finals week happens the week before finals week. So I just clumsily missed it on my cal.
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tantek both Twitter and FB have failed to keep such "comment" posts separate from "normal" top level posts, and as such, reading all those from people you follow has become noisy.
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bret That super rad to hear though!
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tantek I wonder if there is a way to hide all tweets that have links to sites other than the authors website.
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barnabywalters tantek: briansuda’s the person to ask about twitter.com user styles for hiding stuff
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barnabywalters you could probably do it in plain css, certainly with javascript
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snarfed you'd need extra fetches of everyone's profile to find their web sites in the first place, so you know what to exclude
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snarfed but agreed, definitely doable
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snarfed might be a bit too aggressive though. it'd filter out a ton of our own tweets that point to the wiki :P
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barnabywalters snarfed: you tweet without linking to your own site?
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barnabywalters HERETIC
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barnabywalters ;)
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snarfed wait, confused
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snarfed what?
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tantek snarfed - sure, but our own tweets that link to the wiki are essentially comments about the wiki!
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barnabywalters ah okay, you’re talking about removing tweets with links to ANY sites other than the author’s
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barnabywalters that makes sense
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tantek barnabywalters yes that's what I suggested!
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tantek they don't belong in the normal tweet stream IMO
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snarfed tantek: definitely! i was just talking about the "filter all link comments unless they point to the author's own domain"
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snarfed probably my fault, i may have jumped into the topic w/o enough context
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barnabywalters nope, mine — misread original intention
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snarfed np!
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tantek this makes me reconsider my own notes that link to other articles
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tantek I guess I'm saying that such notes are almost always "in reply to" what primary article they're linking to
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bret Ok bye! I Hope to be more active next week.
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tantek bye! have a good weekend!
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barnabywalters tantek: so, http://tantek.com/2014/046/t1/houseofcards-good-better-boosted-skateboard for example — it’s not really in reply to the other website because it makes sense without context and would look out of place in a comment thread for that site
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tantek and it's a link to a site, rather than an post permalink
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barnabywalters tantek: so you’re differentiating between linking to *posts* and linking to non-post pages
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tantek welcome indie-visitor! use /nick to set your name :)
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barnabywalters tantek: I think that was them leaving :)
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barnabywalters so here’s an example of a note which mentions a bunch of other notes and articles without being a comment upon them in any way: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4V0Amv/
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barnabywalters although it could be argued that that isn’t a note at all, it’s a video
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tantek barnabywalters - funny thing, that post of mine you linked to IS a comment, but not on the link, but rather "#HouseOfCards s2e1"
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barnabywalters tantek: yeah, that was a bit of a disjointed note ;)
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tantek I just didn't have a handy permalink to link to - though I suppose I could have linked to the Netflix episode permalink (since they own the content!)
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barnabywalters the motorised longboards are awesome though
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tantek so I suppose it's actually a multireply
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tantek a comment both on that episode, and on boostedboards
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barnabywalters tantek: indeed, it wouldn’t make much sense in comment threads for either thing
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tantek yes it would
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tantek for both!
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tantek " … was good. " makes sense as a comment - even if short on content
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tantek it's like a mini-review even.
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barnabywalters tantek: I was referring to the skateboard content being in a comment on the TV episode — unless there was a motorised skateboard in that episode?
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tantek and the rest of the post makes sense as a testimonial about boostedboards - which essentially *is* a comment
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barnabywalters it would totally make sense broken into two notes
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tantek I don't think the entire post has to be about the thing in-reply-to does it?
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tantek it would totally lose its primary meaning if it was broken into two notes
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kylewm barnabywalters, thank you for the pointer about h-cite. I think it's working correctly now http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkylewm.com%2Fnote%2F2014%2F03%2F07%2F2
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tantek so i think it makes the most sense as a multi-reply
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barnabywalters tantek: would you write that comment into a comment box on the house of cards permalink?
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barnabywalters or is the fact that it’s a reply to two things a result of the fact that we don’t have much in the way of in-context reply UIs yet?
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barnabywalters kylewm: looking good!
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barnabywalters heading off now, bbiab
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tantek asks questions then leaves. sheesh :P
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snarfed tantek, barnabywalters: totally unrelated, but thought you might be interested in this "rel-payment silo": https://www.onename.io/
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KevinMarks hm. so you're saying that link tweets and text tweets are different kinds of things?
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tantek kevinmarks exactly
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KevinMarks that's almost explaic it in G+ and FB, though not in twtter
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tantek link tweets are almost always just comments on the thing being linked
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KevinMarks they have a separate field for links and they preview them for you
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KevinMarks or an excerpt
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tantek any status update or note with a link in it is a basically a comment
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tantek except that UI is useless
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tantek it's an explicit step to do something that's unnecessary
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tantek when you post a link in a status update in FB - you see a preview there too
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tantek the whole separate UI for a link post is stupid
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tantek by pasting a link you are making a link post
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KevinMarks is https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/444204681569374208 a comment?
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@kevinmarks "So it's up to us — all of us — to build the internet we want. " - @finkd https://www.facebook.com/unsupportedbrowser #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/444204681569374208)
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KevinMarks it's a selective quotation
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tantek yeah, perhaps quotations are an interesting subvariant
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tantek quotations without commentary
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KevinMarks this is the original use case for RSS
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KevinMarks links with one-line summaries, comments etc
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KevinMarks daring fireball still does this
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KevinMarks most are that, a few are actually post-length and he marks them with a star
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tantek so RSS was built with a limited use-case to begin with
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tantek er, designed
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KevinMarks yes
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KevinMarks it was for the portal homepage fo netscape
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KevinMarks this is kind of the note/article distinction
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tantek so Tumblr has a specific post type for "quotation"
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KevinMarks DF post is like http://daringfireball.net/2014/02/fitting_facts_to_the_narrative
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tantek thus KevinMarks, I see your distinction of "selective quotation" and accept it
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KevinMarks df note is like: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2014/03/03/philly-accent
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KevinMarks this fits with the hentry vs h-entry discussion yesterday
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KevinMarks each blogpost having its own page was a later development
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KevinMarks before they were fragments on an archive page
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tantek what. hentry vs h-entry is purely syntax.
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KevinMarks no, hentry has different implicit parsing rules
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KevinMarks for what constitutes a permalink/bookmark
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KevinMarks hm, microformats.org is being slow
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tantek kevinmarks and most of those were not thought out enough (speaking as the author)
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KevinMarks "if the Entry Permalink is missing, use the URI of the page
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KevinMarks if the Entry has an "id" attribute, add that as a fragment to the page URI to distinguish individual entries"
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KevinMarks supported that old usecase. the problem being that if you omit a permalink, the new microformat implict parsing rules will pick a u-in-reply-to as u-url for the entry
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KevinMarks which is arguably consistent with a DF-type feed
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KevinMarks but can be surprising
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KevinMarks see https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-13 from 19:55 on
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tantek kevinmarks, that DF post is definitely a (long) comment on that article
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KevinMarks yes
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KevinMarks my point its that the links in his feed are the u-in-reply-to links for those
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tantek kevinmarks I think you're missing the point on what happened with hentry vs h-entry
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tantek we've learned to remove heuristics like that from specific microformats
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tantek to keep the microformats themselves as simple as possible
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KevinMarks yes, I get that
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tantek what we didn't understand (back in the hAtom days) is that we needed a layer of algorithms that used microformats but was separate from them
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tantek not that the algorithms weren't needed
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KevinMarks but the side effect is that if you don't include a u-url explicitly you will find that your u-in-reply-to has been hoisted
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tantek hence now we have algorithms for various specific *use-cases* on indiewebcamp,
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tantek rather than for specific formats
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KevinMarks getting a retro-style feed
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tantek it's a very important distinction and separation of concerns
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KevinMarks I thought that was what was going on
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KevinMarks but it means that u-url is a stronger SHOULD in h-entry
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tantek no that's just a bug in someone's h-entry
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@skinny I just bought some custom stickers from @stickermule for #indiewebcamp http://artisan.stickermule.com/unauthorized /cc @t @pfinette (twitter.com/_/status/444532738817675265)
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KevinMarks so if I want fragments as permalinks I can do it
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KevinMarks but the 'feed with non-local links as links' will happen for u-in-reply-to unless you are explicit
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KevinMarks which si the DF case
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tantek kevinmarks - no that's either a problem with the publisher of those h-entries, or the lack of a "feed" algorithm with specifics
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tantek why does DF support h-entry?
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tantek sorry I mean
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tantek why? does DF support h-entry? ;)
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KevinMarks http://daringfireball.net/index.xml
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KevinMarks no, I meant the kind of feed where the links are non-local
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KevinMarks the first one there has <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://john.mcafee.usesthis.com/" />
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KevinMarks in the entry
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tantek kevinmarks - I think those are effectively dead
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tantek as are standalone feed readers
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tantek and not a use case worth considering any more
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tantek it's been taken over by tweets / status updates with links in-line
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KevinMarks except this is the exact distinction you just made
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tantek so that's what we should solve, and ignore the df index.xml legacy use case
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KevinMarks it says the remote content is primary
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KevinMarks not the comment you made pointing to it
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tantek no, a comment has its own permalink
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KevinMarks but if you don't include it a s u-url, the u-in-reply-to will be the u-url
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tantek !tell barnabywalters in answer to your question, https://twitter.com/BarnabyWalters/status/443337312085495808 is a note (not comment) because it is just linking to your own site.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek kevinmarks - not typically no. you may be misunderstanding the specifics of the implied URL parsing rules.
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KevinMarks this was the exact case yesterday
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tantek and it was found to be a markup error on the part of the post, not a problem with h-entry
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KevinMarks https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/issues/20
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KartikPrabhu aah yes! tantek appreciate your input on that issue :)
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KartikPrabhu I am pretty sure I implemented the implied url rules correctly
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tantek you probably did
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tantek I think the closer explanation is that in practice, just as it is more necessary to include an explicit p-name in an h-entry, it may be more necessary to include an explicit u-url as well
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KevinMarks yes
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tantek hmnmm microformats.org is slow for me too :/
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KevinMarks and a simple way to do so (If urls are assigned at post time) is to do <a href="#" class ="u-url">#</a>
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KartikPrabhu I see. so the problem would be "sloppy" markup?
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tantek I'm pretty sure I put a note somewhere about just use <a href="" class="u-url"></a>
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tantek KartikPrabhu - commented
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KevinMarks you comment had it's markup eaten
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KartikPrabhu what he said ^^
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tantek and this is why we can't have nice things
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tantek is this markdumb?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I'll edit it if you don't mind?
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tantek please do!
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KevinMarks yes, markderp
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KartikPrabhu see... :P
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KevinMarks nice meta-irony about implicit parsing
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KartikPrabhu tantek: nice suggestion for h-cite !
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KartikPrabhu maybe this can serve as a good example for a h-cite use on mf2 wiki/guids
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KevinMarks balmes gruber twice
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tantek KartikPrabhu - yeah I started using h-cite this way myself, e.g. view source: http://tantek.com/2014/072/t3/save-me-a-seat
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snarfed oh man. i just received a reply to a like. how do i render that?!? [head explodes]
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KartikPrabhu haha!
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Loqi rofl
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tantek snarfed wait what?
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snarfed :P
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tantek isn't that "your fault" for having a discovery webmention endpoint on your like permalink? ;)
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tantek s/discovery/discoverable
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Loqi tantek meant to say: isn't that "your fault" for having a discoverable webmention endpoint on your like permalink? ;)
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snarfed wow, thanks tantek
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snarfed as long as we know who to blame! :P
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tantek hence then ;)
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snarfed kidding, kidding
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tantek or I should say, by having a discoverable webmention endpoint, you're asking for replies :)
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snarfed yeah, fair enough. good point, turning that off is a straightforward fix
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snarfed maybe i do want the replies. they render fine. who knows.
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snarfed for the curious, it's https://snarfed.org/2014-03-10_re-kyle-mahan-3
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KartikPrabhu anyone rendering "conversations" like twitter does? i.e. a chain of notes as replies to each other?
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snarfed i've seen reply contexts but not full chains
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snarfed bridgy cheats by sending all tweets in a chain as replies to the original post
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snarfed but actually walking a real reply chain without that, no
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KartikPrabhu yeah. reply contexts are pretty great I think! I just ended up reading a long conversation on twitter on Luke Wrobleski's post and was wondering if anyone has thought of indieweb implementation
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snarfed not that i know of. i'd love to see a proof of concept!
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KartikPrabhu ref: https://twitter.com/lukew/status/444198146403364864
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@lukew .@kartik_prabhu people try to click/tap on "different" text (headlines, colors, etc) all the time-underline or not. might as well enable it. (twitter.com/_/status/444198146403364864)
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KartikPrabhu hmm actually twitter does not show whole conversation strangely, just predecessor and replies... seems inconsistent somehow
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KartikPrabhu for instance this: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/444197087123501056 does not show luke's post to which I replied
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@kartik_prabhu @lukew so no need to distinguish between clickable links and normal text? maybe just colour? But then colourblind people? well who cares... (twitter.com/_/status/444197087123501056)
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snarfed it usually would. i wonder if twitter doesn't actually think that tweet is a reply.
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snarfed hmm never mind. looked at the raw data via the api and it does have in_reply_to_status_id
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KartikPrabhu yeah I am sure I posted it as a reply through twitter.
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snarfed oh interesting. it looks like he may have deleted the tweet you replied to
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snarfed i think the api is saying it's https://twitter.com/lukew/status/444193526700462080 , which doesn't exist
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tantek and that's why we cache reply contexts on our own sites
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KartikPrabhu oh so luke deleted the original! I see...
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KartikPrabhu agrees with tantek on caching
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KartikPrabhu should make all these things instead of just discussing!
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: totally! one thing at a time.
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KartikPrabhu true! :D
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snarfed btw KartikPrabhu, bridgy publish is getting pretty solid, at least for twitter, if you're still interested. feel free to ping me if you hit any bugs!
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KartikPrabhu i am interested, but have to tidy up notes and all that before using it! :P
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snarfed np!
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snarfed (it doesn't require 'note' type btw, or even content at all. i've been using it to posse content-less favorites, which works fine.)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: I see. I still don't have any sort of favourite posting either... I should really get on with expanding my post types
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snarfed maybe! don't worry too much about code too much at first, just write the minimal markup directly a few times
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snarfed e.g. <a class="u-like-of" href="http://twitter.com/…"></a>
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snarfed (that's all you need for a twitter favorite)
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snarfed like a lot of things, do it manually first, then eventually write code to automate the parts you care about
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snarfed that's my approach at least
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KartikPrabhu yeah. that is probably a better approach
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kylewm snarfed: re: comment on a like. I like it! ... also being able to include some content along with a like ... e.g., when "like" is actually conveying sympathy
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@davewiner Indieweb: "Don't bother consuming ATOM or RSS." ;-) http://indiewebcamp.com/feed#Criticism (twitter.com/_/status/444564517306249216)
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kylewm snarfed, also can I file an issue on Brid.gy ... I think facebook has removed support for facebook.com/ID style-permalinks (at least sometimes). http://facebook.com/<userid>/posts/<postid> seems to work consistently
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tantek ah good, davewiner is spreading the message ;)
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snarfed kylewm: agreed on "rich" likes
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snarfed re the fb permalinks, true! i've tried to use the fuller URLs as much as i can, at least when i have the user id available, but may have missed a few
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snarfed mind sending an example? or feel free to file an issue
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kylewm ok, filed
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kylewm the brid.gy page itself, has my user ID as part of its URL, so it must be in there somewhere :)
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snarfed oh sure, for you yes, but many permalinks it operates on are for other arbitrary users
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kylewm And I think that's the first time anyone has mentioned my mom on Github...
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kylewm wait, I'm confused?
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kylewm won't all the webmentions that it sends to me originate on my own posts?
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snarfed nah, it doesn't actually care or even need to know what "your" web site is
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snarfed it sends wms to any link in the post that will receive them
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snarfed regardless, thanks for the example!
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kylewm oh wow! I hadn't considered that, I definitely see why that might make it difficult
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kylewm sure :)
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@jonathankoren RT @davewiner: Indieweb: "Don't bother consuming ATOM or RSS." ;-) http://indiewebcamp.com/feed#Criticism (twitter.com/_/status/444572494360363008)
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@aaronpk @pilukinum es würde mir erklärt dass auf Deutsch, das übersetzt nicht so gut http://indiewebcamp.com/principles-de (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/03/14/1/) (twitter.com/_/status/444599650654248960)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/03/14/1/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles-de (webmention)
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aaronpk Holy UTF8 batman
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aaronpk will fix that soon
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snarfed fix what?
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snarfed looks ok to me
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snarfed ah, the web irc logs
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tantek LGTM too
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aaronpk fixed utf8 in the irc logs
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aaronpk and fixed max upload size
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@rcade Consuming RSS and Atom is "problematic and fragile," claims @indiewebcamp. RSS? Yes. Atom? Hell no. That spec is bulletproof. (twitter.com/_/status/444613466247004160)
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aaronpk aaand irc logs now set to pacific timezone
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aaronpk which is not an ideal solution, but that's what it was before
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@rcade The @indiewebcamp page striving to kill off RSS and Atom entirely: http://indiewebcamp.com/feed (twitter.com/_/status/444613637546586112)
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pdurbin aaronpk: what would be more ideal? UTC?
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aaronpk need some sort of cookie so everyone can view the logs in their local timezones or something
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pdurbin yeah. we've discussed this in #ilbot. hard problem I guess
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pauloppenheim aaronpk: are you devops'ing the machine, or manual admin?
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@rossk RT @rcade: The @indiewebcamp page striving to kill off RSS and Atom entirely: http://indiewebcamp.com/feed (twitter.com/_/status/444614337693777920)
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@brian_carnell RT @rcade: Consuming RSS and Atom is "problematic and fragile," claims @indiewebcamp. RSS? Yes. Atom? Hell no. That spec is bulletproof. (twitter.com/_/status/444616416021716992)
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aaronpk it's pretty manual
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@simonstl RT @rcade: Consuming RSS and Atom is "problematic and fragile," claims @indiewebcamp. RSS? Yes. Atom? Hell no. That spec is bulletproof. (twitter.com/_/status/444618991038758912)
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@simonstl RT @rcade: The @indiewebcamp page striving to kill off RSS and Atom entirely: http://indiewebcamp.com/feed (twitter.com/_/status/444619003797839872)
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@danlyke @rcade so the @indiewebcamp wiki is advocating technologies without implementations? At least my RSS/Atom reader is a usable tool now. (twitter.com/_/status/444619120768589825)
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@malcolmblaney @davewiner I like #Indieweb but disagree with this page. Also interesting that all the main contributors still produce feeds themselves. (twitter.com/_/status/444619603373592576)
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@danlyke @rcade if @indiewebcamp is gonna head towards pub/sub model, we should really not re-implement NNTP, which most proposals look like. (twitter.com/_/status/444619729773133824)
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@davewiner RT @malcolmblaney: @davewiner I like #Indieweb but disagree with this page. Also interesting that all the main contributors still produce f… (twitter.com/_/status/444620219613741057)
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pauloppenheim brace for flames
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snarfed …or embrace them :P
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snarfed i don't mind that we want to deprecate rss/atom, but i kinda think we overemphasize it
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snarfed the main reason i've heard here is that it's too much work and duplication to "maintain" a feed alongside your source posts…which i've never understood, since afaik almost everyone *generates* their feed, as opposed to authoring it by hand
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snarfed i doubt i'm representing their case well though.
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pauloppenheim snarfed: the irony is that rcade almost immediately prior points out that debugging RSS feeds is hard: https://twitter.com/rcade/status/444537227209502720
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@rcade If you use .htaccess to foil people who leech your images on other domains, you also kill your images in RSS readers. #oops (twitter.com/_/status/444537227209502720)
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@tanyaweiman RT @malcolmblaney: @davewiner I like #Indieweb but disagree with this page. Also interesting that all the main contributors still produce f… (twitter.com/_/status/444622600460058624)
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pauloppenheim judging from that tweet I would imagine unifying feeds would be in his favor
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snarfed pauloppenheim: yeah, he's saying that atom is much better than rss
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pauloppenheim snarfed: wouldn't an atom reader have the same issue with an htaccess restriction?
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snarfed pauloppenheim: sorry, yes. that tweet wasn't rss-specific
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snarfed a different one was.
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@timmmmyboy RT @rcade: The @indiewebcamp page striving to kill off RSS and Atom entirely: http://indiewebcamp.com/feed (twitter.com/_/status/444623979438170113)