#indiewebcamp 2014-07-07

2014-07-07 UTC
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KartikPrabhu true
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aaronpk at the very least I'm going to drop them from my replies on twitter
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aaronpk I feel like I'm probably annoying people with the citation link for my replies to silly threads
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KartikPrabhu how big should photos be on the Web? I have one jpeg at 200kB and still not as sharp as the original!
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GWG Low resolution linked to high?
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KartikPrabhu this is the high res
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aaronpk what is the original?
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KartikPrabhu the original is unedited jpeg (phone camera no RAW) at 1.1MB
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aaronpk i like how flickr handles it
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aaronpk they save several intermediate sizes for viewing in different layouts, but you can always get to the original resolution photo https://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/14542562814/sizes/l
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KartikPrabhu yeah have seen that. I do actully show intermediate sizes in the actual post... clicking takes you to the high-res one. But still 1.1mB high res is a huge photo
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Loqi [mention] http://www.matthewgraybosch.com/2014/07/06/screw-digital-sharecropping/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.matthewgraybosch.com/2014/07/06/screw-digital-sharecropping/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.matthewgraybosch.com/2014/07/06/screw-digital-sharecropping/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (pingback)
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@MGraybosch Check out "" at A Day Job and a Dream. #Backfeed #DigitalSharecropping #IndieWeb #IndieWebCamp #SocialMedia https://twitter.com/MGraybosch/status/485938947705409536/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/485938947705409536)
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Loqi [mention] http://matthewgrayboschnovelist.wordpress.com/2014/07/06/screw-digital-sharecropping-im-getting-a-posse/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://matthewgrayboschnovelist.wordpress.com/2014/07/06/screw-digital-sharecropping-im-getting-a-posse/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (pingback)
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@MGraybosch http://www.matthewgraybosch.com/?p=866 Not what I had in mind. ... #IndieWeb #Mistake #Oops #Sharing #Syndication https://twitter.com/MGraybosch/status/485949168909701121/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/485949168909701121)
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@veganstraightedge Video: The taking of the group photo at Indie Web Camp 2012 in Portland, Oregon http://vimeo.com/100065946 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/485950617722970112)
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aaronpk lol wat
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aaronpk I do not remember that being videod
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aaronpk we should do that every year haha
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Loqi awesome
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GWG aaronpk: I'd like the sessions to be watchable
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aaronpk oh man that's so much work
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aaronpk especially since they're not just presentations
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aaronpk presentations are easier to record cause there's just one speaker and you can put a mic on them and point the camera at them
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: maybe the demos then?
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aaronpk I could see recording the demos
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KartikPrabhu demos were broadcast throguh talky anyway
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GWG aaronpk: More for the people who couldn't make it
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GWG Or people like me, who made some of it
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aaronpk wow video cameras are cheap now
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GWG aaronpk: Yup
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KartikPrabhu isn't that someone or other's law of something or other?
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GWG aaronpk: I'd put an audio recorder in the room and record hotly contested topics.
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GWG I have a digital recorder here somewhere
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aaronpk $140 for a 1080p camera...
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aaronpk oh, battery lasts 40 minutes
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GWG aaronpk: You have outlets, don't you?
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk audio quality is always the challenge
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aaronpk I'd get an external tabletop mic
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aaronpk the problem with a lot of cheap cameras tho is that there's no way to disable AGC, which usually makes for terrible audio quality
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aaronpk the video production that i've done i've had to use a separate audio recording device and then merge the two files later
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GWG I have a good recorder, the TASCAM DR-40
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aaronpk nice, i have the DR-05
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aaronpk i think it's the same except mine has 2 tracks instead of 4
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GWG There is also the H4N which is popular
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GWG I have a whole analog studio setup here
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GWG I'm oddly very old school on my audio equipment
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GWG Time for an Indiewebcast?
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aaronpk i certainly don't have time to do that much editing :)
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GWG aaronpk: I believe in live to tape
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GWG Cut the beginning, cut the end...post
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GWG If you get bored, that's what fast forward is for
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aaronpk that requires live mixing then
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GWG That and an Audacity option called Truncate silence
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GWG aaronpk: Got that covered
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aaronpk I would want each demo at the end to be its own separate video so they can be shared easier
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GWG aaronpk: I think with some planning, that is possible.
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GWG But I think people would love to see even a portion of the events
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aaronpk the other problem is i have relatively high standards when it comes to videos of events
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GWG aaronpk: That is why I usually do audio only
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aaronpk so i'd want to make sure we have two camera angles (close and far) plus a recording of the screen
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rascul it would be nice to have some of the iwc stuff recorded
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GWG aaronpk: How about a screencast and the audio?
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GWG That would be a low barrier for entry
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aaronpk true
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aaronpk at that point a small PIP of the presenter would be ok too, and wouldn't be the end of the world if it wasn't super high quality
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GWG aaronpk: Doable without a large amount of post-production, which is what everyone wants to avoid
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GWG I went to SELF several times, and they took months to get the video up
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aaronpk yeah I hate that, but I totally understand how long it takes
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GWG So, you want to figure out how to ensure production values with a low barrier to adoption
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GWG Which is why I use hardware a lot instead of software
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aaronpk screen capture is going to be hard too
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aaronpk cause everyone presents on their own computers
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GWG But do they have to?
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aaronpk we had that down pretty well in PDX, two separate TVs, one on VGA and one on HDMI, so switching computers was pretty fast
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aaronpk yeah usually they do, because often times people demo stuff that isn't live, or they prep a bunch of tabs ahead of time and pre-login to stuff
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GWG Don't they make HDMI recording inputs?
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aaronpk with a passthrough to a tv? it would need to work with hdmi too
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aaronpk vga i mean
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GWG There must be a way. If you figure out the system, then you hopefully can get to set it and forget it levels.
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aaronpk whoa, lots of crazy technology was invented since last time i looked for this stuff
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aaronpk http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00840353W
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GWG See?
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aaronpk hm well that would work for HDMI... then we'd just need VGA to HDMI
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GWG aaronpk: Easy
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aaronpk wait that can't be right... a $2.44 cable? which has to be passive
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rascul what's not right about it?
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aaronpk i thought VGA to HDMI had to be active
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rascul i had passive hdmi to vga that worked wonderfully
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aaronpk other way around
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rascul well it was an adapter plugged into the video card not a cable
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aaronpk VGA out from the computer to HDMI input to a TV
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rascul does that need to be active though for hdmi to vga?
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aaronpk this is what I would expect http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009L4X3ZA
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aaronpk that one's cool cause it also adds the audio to the HDMI signal
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rascul i also had dvi to hdmi that was passive but i don't know how that compares to vga
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rascul might still be using that one, i don't know what's hooked up to my computer
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rascul where is this $2.44 one you mentioned?
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aaronpk it says "video card support necessary" http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002TUC64W
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aaronpk this seems like the right thing http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D0B7HIE
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rascul the box does seem better
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aaronpk GWG: I don't think there's going to be anything cheap that can do PIP live, do you know of anything?
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: around?
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KartikPrabhu yup
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GWG aaronpk: I'll look into it. But at least screen plus narration is at least a good presentation.
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GWG Just have the narrator turn on his webcam and display it on the screen in a always on top window?
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: so indiejs has a few parts. The simplest part is the cookie. It lives on domainX and tells it where your IndieJS is.
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aaronpk GWG: ha! delightfully low tech
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aaronpk i just found this, potentially interesting https://code.google.com/p/glmixer/
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JonathanNeal I dunno, it’s just an idea. The idea being that you host your own interactions, and pages have hooks for those, so you could add a like button on your page, and the visitor’s indieJS connects it with their account.
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GWG aaronpk: Low tech is best
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GWG In terms of easy to maintain/set up
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: I see. WIll have to think about how this should all fit together
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: I think I’m beginning to prefer the token idea, where your site decides what you share with other sites, and you can track what those other sites have requested and when.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: yes. that way you could choose to revoke the token and stop access
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JonathanNeal Great, let’s write it!
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: hasn't aaronpk done that?
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JonathanNeal Then, let’s use it! Are we talking about his idea or an implementation?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: I think IndieAuth already does the token verification. What needs to be written would be hosting your own authorization_endpoint, which seems backend dependent
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JonathanNeal We can do that too.
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KartikPrabhu of course! :) I'll help you test it... I might have to do it independently for my python backend
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tantek good evening #Indiewebcamp!
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KartikPrabhu wassup tantek!
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JonathanNeal Good evening #tantek!
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KartikPrabhu tantek: first repost imported from G+... and following G+ reposts have added commentary :P https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/brianwebb-window-look
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KartikPrabhu #rebellion :P
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: you really are jumping ahead with indieweb stuff straight to authorization stuff :P
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KartikPrabhu should stop using 'stuff' for everything
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KartikPrabhu !tell gregor`: any updates on the new HWC venue?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: I gotta jump ahead somewhere
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: always a good idea to publish notes and 'tweet' from your own site :)
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aaronpk GWG: I'm playing with WireCast right now... seems pretty neat
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GWG aaronpk: I know a guy who uses it for a whole show every week
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aaronpk nice
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aaronpk it's super cool actually
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tantek thanks KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal !
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tantek KartikPrabhu: re: G+ and reposts - I don't think G+ is particularly exemplary when it comes to UI/UX.
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KartikPrabhu awww :(
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tantek yeah - there's a lot of oddness in many (most?) things G+ does
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KartikPrabhu so what should indieweb do when back posting?
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tantek what is back posting?
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KartikPrabhu oh sorry... I mean importing G+ reposts to indieweb site? include the extra comment or not?
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willnorris KartikPrabhu: that’s simply known as PESOS
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willnorris and sure, might as well include comments if you’re doing it for POSSE’d posts
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KartikPrabhu willnorris: yeah but sort of PESOSing previous posts
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tantek KartikPrabhu: both the G+ "share and say something" and the Tumblr "reblog and say something" are essentially comments with permalinks
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tantek where the showing of the original thing is reply-context of sorts
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KartikPrabhu I see... so wouldn't count as actual "indie reposts" :(
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KartikPrabhu back to the drawing board
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willnorris err, I see the “extra comment” you mean. yeah, I would absolutely include it, since that’s the original creative work that you authored. And as tantek says, it’s is really basically a comment
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KartikPrabhu cool!
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tantek same thing with tweets where people link and say something about the link
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tantek they're essentially comments about those links
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KartikPrabhu Q: about rel=following. If I publish a page say mysite/following with a bunch of links I want to follow, would the rel value then say that "this page is following this other page" instead of saying "this person is following this other page" ?
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willnorris (URLs are people, too!)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: not quite, think it through with rel=stylesheet
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tantek which is saying this href over there is a *stylesheet* for the *current document*
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KartikPrabhu yes. then tel=following would say "this other page is being followed by the current document" but the current document is not "me". my homepage is me right?
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tantek no you're changing terms - don't do that
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KartikPrabhu hmmm
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tantek rel=following is saying that href over there is a *following* of the the current document (which if it is your home page - represents you)
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tantek s/the the/the
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Loqi tantek meant to say: rel=following is saying that href over there is a *following* of the current document (which if it is your home page - represents you)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes "if it is my homepage" so I have to publish the rel=following list on my homepage/about page
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KartikPrabhu or have a rel=me to my page with the list on it
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@AnastasiaAshman RT @benwerd: My #indieweb life: how my site gives me an awesome social media archive of everything I've ever written http://werd.io/2014/my-indieweb-life-how-my-site-gives-me-an-awesome (twitter.com/_/status/485988097448882176)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: precisely
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tantek KartikPrabhu: there's basically two approaches we can take here
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KartikPrabhu hmmm that is sort of restrictive... will have to think about that
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tantek 1. have a page with simple rel=following links to all of the things you're following, whether people, searches, companies, brands, objects, drones, whatever
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tantek 2. have a page with h-card, h-event, h-entry, etc. objects for everything you're following
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tantek choice 1 is the most minimal thing you could make work in a "just copy Twitter" kind of way
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tantek so there's something to be said for doing that approach. totally flat. just links.
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tantek no other markup needed
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tantek however, choice 2 is more human-centric. you can follow *people* (who may have multiple URLs where they post stuff, which your reader could aggregate and de-dup by person accordingly etc.)
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tantek plus choice 2 allows use of p-category to "tag" each object in the page into any sort of arbitrary overlapping collections/groups etc.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes choice 2 sounds more people centric which I like... though there would still need to be a rel=me from homepage to followingpage
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tantek not necessarily
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tantek we could make up a new rel just for followings discovery
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tantek e.g. rel=followings
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tantek which could be used to discover *either* 1 or 2
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KartikPrabhu hmm that sounds reasonable...
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KartikPrabhu also prone to typos as it stands :)
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KartikPrabhu I guess this whole business depends on indie readers and what they want to do
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: any input on this from indie reader attempt at PDX?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: exactly - I'm not sure how much such discovery is needed at all
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tantek for if it was up to me, for my site, my code would just know where to read/write the followings list - which doesn't even need to be public for any reason
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KartikPrabhu tantek: it might be useful for me to discover who follows me and all that... or who you follow so I can discover new people to follow
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KartikPrabhu like a "web" of follow links
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tantek KartikPrabhu: so that's what blogrolls were back in the early 2000s
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tantek which inspired XFN, which inspired microformats, which … you get the picture
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KartikPrabhu true! but there was no auto-discovery/auto-suggest of follows
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KartikPrabhu is really getting ahead of himself with all this speculation about future :P
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tantek KartikPrabhu: the auto-suggest stuff is a whole different topic!
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tantek (also interesting, but beyond the initial use-cases you brought up)
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KartikPrabhu yes
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KartikPrabhu I'll start with some basic links and go from there as readers/others add things
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KartikPrabhu #babysteps
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tantek for those that didn't see - adactio got image posting to his site working over the weekend, including POSSE to Twitter: http://adactio.com/notes/6978/
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aaronpk oh nice!
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tantek and of course, as often predicted, the HTML is more important than the RSS, which gets neglected … and that's ok: http://adactio.com/notes/6978/#comment2010
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KartikPrabhu tantek: works in my reader somehow
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KartikPrabhu wonder if Feedly does some HTML scraping
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tantek KartikPrabhu: your reader might be simply reading the permalink and showing you the HTML in an iframe
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KartikPrabhu hmm good point
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KartikPrabhu smart reader then :P
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tantek KartikPrabhu: or he fixed it: https://twitter.com/adactio/status/485710400298958849
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@adactio @charlesroper Ah, good catch! Fixed now. Cheers! (twitter.com/_/status/485710400298958849)
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KartikPrabhu aah neat
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kylewm JonathanNeal: KartikPrabhu: i'm reading the indie js gist from this morning but can't quite grok it. what would it give you?
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tantek.com edited /WordPress (+23) "/* POSSE */ add id=POSS to make the first link work from https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/485197197542060032" (view diff)
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JonathanNeal kylewm: it is just a weird idea to use JavaScript for trust-less cross-site interactions.
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kylewm JonathanNeal: so hosting the setIndieJs script on your site, so other sites can load it and run it, is a way to get around CORS?
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tantek aaronpk, KartikPrabhu note also that adactio's photo posts have geolocation with visible lat long!
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tantek (in the "footer" of each post)
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KartikPrabhu yeah... adactio is silently doing some major stuff
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aaronpk ooh nice
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KartikPrabhu I'd like to see his posting interface
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tantek it's pretty simple from what I remember
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tantek though it was on /create
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tantek I keep telling him to name and release his code as open source
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tantek I even gave him a suggested name: ACME (Adactio Content Management Engine)
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KartikPrabhu ACME++
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Loqi ACME has 1 karma
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KartikPrabhu also that interface does not have all the new goodies like photo and geolocation
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JonathanNeal kylewm: yes, that was the initial idea, and that requests would be sent back to your site
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it's funny, I noticed bnvk editing /IndieMark recently, so I went to check his edits, see if there was anything I could build on, and I'm noticing upon reviewing Level 2 and Level 3 that adactio is adding support for stuff listed there recently
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KartikPrabhu aah neat
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KartikPrabhu I haven't looked/scored myself on IndieMark for a long time
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tantek.com edited /IndieMark (+301) "level 1 posts 0.2 = 0.1 per post to 0.2 for 2 at most (minimum required). location is not a separate post type, it's part of others)" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I propose upgrading IndieMark to have a least-point of 1 instead of 0.1 for the non-mathy crowd... thoughts?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it's the way it is *for* the non-mathy crowd
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KartikPrabhu hmm really?
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tantek Level 1, 2, 3 makes more sense to people
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tantek than Level 10, 20, 30
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KartikPrabhu I see so the total score of each level should be 1 is the idea
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tantek and in general people are ok with grades of one decimal point
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tantek e.g. sports ratings
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KartikPrabhu fair enough :)
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tantek olympics and such
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tantek plenty of prior art there
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KartikPrabhu sports-argument... you win! :P
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tantek anyway, arguing about points multipliers is almost bikeshedding ;) - how about thoughts on how you do on IndieMark in general? what parts you found easy/hard to understand
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tantek ?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: hmm sure will do some more reading of that page :)
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aaronpk would it be appropriate to document this live event recording setup i'm scheme on the wiki or not?
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tantek it would
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tantek though I thought the general answer was "just use quicktime" and a laptop
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aaronpk it's more complicated :)
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aaronpk for a good video
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aaronpk i'm also thinking about logistics of switching presenters rapidly
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aaronpk it actually went relatively seamlessly in pdx this time
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willnorris so… 9 years, 1 month, 14 days. That’s how long I used WordPress. Completed the migration to Jekyll last wednesday: https://willnorris.com/2014/07/one-step-forward-two-steps-back
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aaronpk willnorris: wow!!
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willnorris well, what good is having a personal site if you can’t change things up once in a while? :)
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tantek willnorris - congrats. and wow.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kartik_prabhu/485197197542060032/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/wordpress#POSS (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: would be nice to see a bigger picture of your comic to read the dialogue http://tantek.com/2013/149/b1/bayesian :)
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willnorris tantek: thanks. btw, did you see my note the other day about the cassis license (or at least for the newbase60 implementation)?
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: did you update quill code to do in-reply-to intead of underscores?
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aaronpk i did commit that today but it's not yet deployed
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aaronpk also some fancy syndication support!
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KartikPrabhu oh ok so I can safely use it for now without code updates on my side :)
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: quill again did the "I'll do nothing" on Post :(
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aaronpk whaa i couldn't get it to do that for me today while testing!!
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KartikPrabhu weird
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: oh poo never mind... I changed some Notes stuff on my site which broke my micropub internally :P
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aaronpk oh darn. you still should have seen the error your site returned
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tommorris has published-on-own-site-syndicated-to-Amazon.
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KartikPrabhu what the waht!
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tommorris http://tommorris.org/posts/9027 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R1RUDB2Q9KDOZ7/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm
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tommorris no linkback as amazon guidelines say you aren’t allowed to do that, alas.
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KartikPrabhu tommrris: maybe a syndicated to link would be good :)
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tommorris yep, will sort out
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tommorris I might also repost it on the Apple Store reviews site.
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KartikPrabhu so much POSSE
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tommorris rage is a very good reason to repost.
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tantek tommorris: Amazon posse sounds like another use case for permashortcitations.
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Loqi gRegor`: KartikPrabhu left you a message 3 hours, 45 minutes ago: any updates on the new HWC venue?
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cweiske I'd like to test a new version of phorkie, my federated self-hosted pastebin software. if you have PHP and the git cli running on a server, please download http://tmp.cweiske.de/phorkie-0.4.0.phar
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cweiske it uses webmentions to talk with remote instances
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: an idea for cross domain access in PHP with the ability to configure what gets shared and keep logs of when it is accessed https://gist.github.com/anonymous/a1eaf5571e56a4adf13a
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cweiske JonathanNeal, since you're using php, could you help test phorkie?
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cweiske specifically federation and remote forking
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JonathanNeal cweiske: https://github.com/cweiske/phorkie ?
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cweiske yep, but please try the .phar I build
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cweiske wget http://tmp.cweiske.de/phorkie-0.4.0.phar
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cweiske put it in the server's document root and access it with the browser
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JonathanNeal Will I still need pear for that?
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cweiske no
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cweiske all dependencies in the .phar
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cweiske it should be fully self-sustained
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JonathanNeal Sure. I will create a new test domain for this.
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cweiske sustained is the wrong word
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cweiske self-contained
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JonathanNeal I have the phar file in the root of the domain.
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cweiske ok. open it with your browser
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cweiske I hope your web server handles .phar files with php
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JonathanNeal It does not, may I rename the file?
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cweiske never tried that :)
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cweiske is it apache?
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JonathanNeal Yes.
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cweiske then it's easy
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cweiske http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/bdrem.htm#phar-apache
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cweiske modify /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/php5.conf
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JonathanNeal I have pear installed, did a `which pear`.
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cweiske you don't need pear
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cweiske JonathanNeal, edit /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/php5.conf to let php handle .phar files
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JonathanNeal I have no such php conf file
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cweiske renaming the .phar does not work with php under fastcgi as it seems
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cweiske how did you install php?
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JonathanNeal Default Mac install.
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cweiske ah. mac.
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JonathanNeal I will look into it. I can edit /etc/php.ini
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cweiske no
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cweiske that won't help
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cweiske do you have a /etc/apache2/ directory?
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JonathanNeal yes
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cweiske please grep -r "FilesMatch" and check if there is "php" shown somewhere
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JonathanNeal `grep -r “FilesMatch”` you say?
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cweiske In that folder, yes
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JonathanNeal Nothing for the last minute, but it’s still looking.
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JonathanNeal Does it go by another name? httpd.conf
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cweiske ok, I looked at a colleague's mac
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cweiske it's /etc/apache2/others/php5.conf
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cweiske in there is "AddType application/x-httpd-php .php"
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cweiske copy that line, changing .php to .phar
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cweiske restart apache
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JonathanNeal Done.
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cweiske can you open the .phar now in your browser?
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JonathanNeal Running.
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cweiske coolio
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JonathanNeal Feels very rails.
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cweiske you should see a yellow warning
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cweiske click on the setup link
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JonathanNeal “No configuration file found. Visit the setup check page for more information.”
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Loqi I agree
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cweiske create the two directories and give apache write access to them
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JonathanNeal That was easy. unexpected: git version 1.8.5.2 is less fun
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JonathanNeal And I’m not sure what MIME type detection fails means.
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cweiske when you paste content, phorkie automatically tries to determine the mime type to properly highlight the code
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cweiske unexpected: git version 1.8.5.2 is less fun
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cweiske strange
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cweiske what's the exact error message?
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JonathanNeal I imagine it’s because “git version needs to be at least 1.7.5”
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JonathanNeal Which is beneath “git version output format unexpected: git version 1.8.5.2 (Apple Git-48)”
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cweiske ah. apple-git-48
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cweiske that breaks it
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JonathanNeal awesome, unbreak it
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cweiske but that's ok for now - it should not bother phorkie much during normal operation
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cweiske what other errors?
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JonathanNeal The third error is “MIME type detection fails” and those are the only red X errors. There’s a information warning “Possible config file: /Users/jonathan/Sites/phorkie/phorkie-0.4.0.phar.config.php (not loaded)”
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cweiske ok, you can ignore them for now.
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cweiske try to create a paste
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JonathanNeal I did.
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cweiske now on the page is a "fork" button with a dropdown.
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cweiske click it, then "help"
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cweiske click the "register web+fork protocol handler"
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JonathanNeal My markdown came out as plain text, renamed the file to .md and uh, the markdown parser needs love.
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cweiske then visit http://p.cweiske.de/114 and click "fork to remote system"
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JonathanNeal http://i.imgur.com/BUM8tbV.png
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cweiske i'm using https://github.com/michelf/php-markdown
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JonathanNeal that forking totally worked, btw
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JonathanNeal Absolutely amazingly well done, cweiske
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cweiske JonathanNeal, if your phorkie instance would be public, http://p.cweiske.de/114 would show the fork and link to it
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cweiske and thanks for testing
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cweiske see http://p.cweiske.de/116 how the listing looks like
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JonathanNeal Yea, that looks good.
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cweiske and http://phancap.cweiske.de/phorkie-0.4.0.phar/1
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@winnie_chily My #indieweb life: how my site gives me an awesome social media archive of everything I've ever written http://werd.io/2014/my-indieweb-life-how-my-site-gives-me-an-awesome?utm_content=buffer1b8a6&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialM... (twitter.com/_/status/486074144715735040)
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JonathanNeal Nice
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JonathanNeal I think I have been using Markdown Extra to render my code blocks http://sandbox.thewikies.com/fragmentions/ it is also part of the same repo you are using https://github.com/michelf/php-markdown/tree/lib/Michelf
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cweiske ok
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JonathanNeal That will help with ```html becoming http://phancap.cweiske.de/phorkie-0.4.0.phar/2
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JonathanNeal Okay. Time for bed. 2am here. Want to enjoy my kids before leaving for work.
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cweiske bb
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kevinmarks.com edited /fragmention (+157) "/* Related work */" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /markdown (+129) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /GitHub (+263) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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@voxpelli @willnorris Congratulations on the move to Jekyll! Feel free to use https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ for your WerbMentions – easy to migrate from :) (twitter.com/_/status/486099134995525632)
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@evanpro RT @voxpelli: @willnorris Congratulations on the move to Jekyll! Feel free to use https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ for your WerbMentions – easy to m… (twitter.com/_/status/486099678136508416)
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@hugoroyd RT @voxpelli: @willnorris Congratulations on the move to Jekyll! Feel free to use https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ for your WerbMentions – easy to m… (twitter.com/_/status/486102223131529216)
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@yatil @codepo8 IndieWeb. (twitter.com/_/status/486116586760462336)
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@jimgroom @dkernohan @patlockley @VivienRolfe > @dajbelshaw is @timmmmyboy's biggest fan which meansd we'll have entire indieweb on relcaim shortly ;) (twitter.com/_/status/486124247333761024)
sdboyer_, halorgium, jonnybarnes, dietrich, piney0, JonathanNeal, ngoldman, CaptainCalliope, teknotus_, michielbdejong, bigbluehat, b0bg0d____, hadleybean, ozatomic, ryana, phil80, reidab, Sebastien-L, brianloveswords and squeakytoy joined the channel
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kylewm uh oh, have to add willnorris to /jekyll
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kylewm.com edited /Jekyll (+119) "/* Indieweb Users */ added Will" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /Jekyll (-3) "/* Indieweb Users */ typo" (view diff)
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: Haven't heard back yet
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kylewm what's the distinction between "IndieWebCamp participants" and "IndieWebCamp community members" on the wiki? (ref http://indiewebcamp.com/Wordpress#People_using_WordPress)
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kylewm guessing it's whether they've attended an IWC in person?
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cweiske probably
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kylewm is that an important distinction to make?
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kylewm it feels a little petty
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cweiske you can't say if I'm human or a bot. but you can if you saw me in person
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cweiske although then I could have been a very convincing android
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cweiske but this probably does not matter anymore if I was so convincing
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kylewm !xkcd Mission. Fucking. Accomplished.
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cweiske yep
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kylewm.com edited /WordPress (+84) "/* People using WordPress */ added start - end dates for User:willnorris.com" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes.net edited /email (+188) "/* Handling it Yourself */ mention mail in a box" (view diff)
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jonnybarnes.net edited /email (+4) "/* Custom domain email providers */ fix typos" (view diff)
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JonathanNeal Hello!
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aaronpk good morning!
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gRegor` +1 for not using participants / community member distinction there, kylewm.
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aaronpk I'd +1 that too, especially since someone who is not yet a participant may very well be one soon, and updating all the pages referencing them would be silly
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gRegor` Other IndieWeb Example sections don't follow that pattern as far as I can tell. If they're on the wiki, they're on the wiki... that's my take :)
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gRegor` Hm, so there's a separate "People using WordPress" and "IndieWeb Example" sections.
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gRegor` for wp.org and .com respectively
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gregorlove.com edited /WordPress (-20) "/* People using WordPress */ subheading "Using on their primary site" rm "participant" text" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /WordPress (-21) "/* Using on their primary site */ subheading "Using on one of their sites"" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /WordPress (-62) "/* People using WordPress */ mv Acegiak up" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /WordPress (+9) "/* People using WordPress */ subheading "Other independents using it on their primary site"" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /WordPress (+2) "/* People using WordPress */ mv aaronpk screenshot" (view diff)
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gRegor` I think that's better, but it could still probably use some work: http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#People_using_WordPress
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gRegor` Perhaps "IndieWeb Examples" instead of "People Using WordPress" Not sure where that puts the "Other independents using..." subsection
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kylewm thanks for changing that gRegor`
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kylewm "Other independents using Wordpress" could be quite a large section :P
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gRegor` Right
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gRegor` Like 1/4 of the web? Or whatever the WP stats are these days. :)
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Loqi benwerd: kylewm left you a message on 7/4 at 10:59am: hey I noticed www.withknown.com returns a 404
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aaronpk www--
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Loqi www has -1 karma
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benwerd facepalm
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kylewm good morning benwerd! others pointed out that no-www might be a deliberate decision
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aaronpk but at least a redirect from www.* to the root would be good
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benwerd sure .. yeah .. that was it! that's the ticket!
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benwerd thanks guys
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kylewm I'm still hard-wired to type domain ctrl-enter in firefox
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benwerd I actually hadn't spotted that
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tommorris adactio presenting at IndieTechSummit on Friday - https://www.flickr.com/photos/tommorris/14410883438/
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benwerd changing the DNS around today anyway, but this is a good prod
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benwerd Awesome!
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benwerd I stayed up until like 4am replying to people on the #indie2014 Twitter stream
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benwerd sounded like the talks were interesting
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tommorris there’ll be more pictures from IndieTechSummit on Flickr. I’d publish them on my own site, but that’d require me to write some damn code. ;)
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aaronpk benwerd: wow anything good on the #indie2014 stream? I'd also like to see any blog posts that came from it
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kylewm that's great! were there a lot of people, tommorris ?
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tommorris may end up writing a blog post soon.
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tommorris kylewm: on Friday, there were probably about 150 people. Saturday, probably 50-60.
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aaronpk what was the difference between the two days?
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aaronpk (other than 100 people)
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tommorris Friday was the conference, Saturday was the workshops/unconf.
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aaronpk ah
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kylewm dang, that's great
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benwerd aaronpk: I saw some people talking about how they wanted to use something _now_ .. I gave them a gentle nudge
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tommorris my pictures are rather blurry, sadly.
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tommorris despite being ISO 2500 at f/2.4
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cweiske I'd like to test a new version of phorkie, my federated self-hosted pastebin software. if you have PHP and the git cli running on a server, please download http://tmp.cweiske.de/phorkie-0.4.0.phar
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kylewm cweiske: will it work with nginx?
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cweiske yees
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cweiske no apache specifics
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cweiske the .phar does its own rewriting internally
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aaronpk i've never run a phar serving web content before, that's neat
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aaronpk i've used phar command line stuff like composer.phar of course
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kylewm it's like a jar for php?
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cweiske yes
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cweiske the app fully self-contained
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kylewm outs himself as a java person
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cweiske you need to configure nginx to handle .phar files like it does .php files
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aaronpk i've never done that, how does that work?
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kylewm cweiske: this will take me a couple minutes to set up, but i've been wanting to try phorkie
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cweiske http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-07/line/1404722560
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cweiske I'll be away an hour but back then to answer questions
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tommorris okay, most of my IndieTechSummit photos uploaded - https://www.flickr.com/photos/tommorris/sets/72157645150633018
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tommorris will go and metadata all the things later
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jonnybarnes I'm not too sure on this: http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Alternate_Content_Types
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jonnybarnes are we saying that micropub clients should not send rendered HTML?
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aaronpk probably not
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aaronpk right now the clients are only handling plaintext and photos
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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kylewm !tell cweiske very sorry, I couldn't get it to work with nginx... google is not being helpful
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gregorlove.com edited /IndieAuth (-4) "/* The IndieAuth API */ fix documentation link" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /IndieAuth (+1) "/* The IndieAuth API */" (view diff)
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benwerd aaronpk: any plans to do anything indieweb at YxYY this year?
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snarfed hey benwerd, just fyi, looks like we're on the hook for the next HWC, wed 7/16
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snarfed (er, SF HWC)
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benwerd snarfed - ok! I'll be there this time. Putting out a note to Matter re: venue now.
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snarfed benwerd: great, thanks!
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aaronpk benwerd: yeah totally! at the very least another indieweb pool hangout :)
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benwerd snarfed: I've got the a-ok from Matter this time
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snarfed benwerd: oh man, new venue!
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snarfed great news. thank you!
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snarfed looking forward to seeing your digs
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benwerd :)
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tantek I'm just going to post this again here for us West-coasters that might not have seen it when it was tweeted live: https://twitter.com/yatil/status/486116586760462336
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@yatil @codepo8 IndieWeb. (twitter.com/_/status/486116586760462336)
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tantek In case you know, you might want to fave it or something ;)
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aaronpk haha nice
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tantek is so behind on implementing owning-his-retweets
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tantek that reminds me, more thoughts on /Twitter#Features
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (+79) "/* Features */ reply-context up through start of thread" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - last time we talked about reply-contexts you said it was easier to implement dt-published rather than the contents of the in-reply-to tweet?
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aaronpk thinking...
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aaronpk oh yes because showing the contents of the in-reply-to post opens up a lot of variables that you don't initally think of, like how to truncate text, whether the name/conten is the same, etc
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tantek a-ha
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tantek searching...
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tantek aaronpk - have you given any thought to recursive reply-context display?
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aaronpk heh no, but have thought about the other direction (comment threads)
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tantek and search sucks for most recent results :(
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tantek (of our IRC archives)
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aaronpk oh sad
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tantek it was just days ago
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werd.io edited /events/2014-07-16-homebrew-website-club (+3) "SF venue" (view diff)
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tantek oh - google doesn't have it!
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tantek their spiders are too damn slow
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aaronpk someone is crawling the logs all the freakign time
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tantek someone is crawling my site all the freaking time too, and pretending to be IE5.5
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aaronpk the baidu spider is pretty active on the logs
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tantek f-it I'm just going to "prev" click and do in-browser "find"
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aaronpk there's also the command line trick if you're into that sort of thing :) `curl http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-06 | grep -i reply`
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gRegor` Ooh, nice
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tantek except it's not on that date - I have to go backwards in time
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tantek found it: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-06-26/line/1403820385
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gRegor` contemplates a shell script to loop through certain dates
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tantek manual paging in the logs > google search
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tantek google really does still suck for any kind of recent / real-time search
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tantek time for someone to build a startup to do that and then charge google for a feed of the data
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tantek since obviously google can't built it themselves
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tantek preferring / starting-with of course, indieweb sites with h-entry
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gRegor` h-oogle
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gRegor` free name idea :)
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kylewm free mascot idea http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111002193728/labyrinth/images/9/92/Hoggle.jpg
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gRegor` Haha
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aaronpk If I didn't already have a million projects that would be fun
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tantek re: #YxYY / YaYY - who here is going?
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aaronpk is
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tantek is, as is Minneapolis HWC co-organizer Nicole
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aaronpk Cool!
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aaronpk Should we make an event on the wiki for an indieweb meetup so we can all RSVP?
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tantek Thinking of proposing a "Website Club" session on the YxYY wiki
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benwerd is
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benwerd I'd be down for that
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aaronpk I should probably check out the yxyy wiki now that it's coming up
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Loqi I agree
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cweiske kylewm, i'm back
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Loqi cweiske: kylewm left you a message 1 hour, 19 minutes ago: very sorry, I couldn't get it to work with nginx... google is not being helpful
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kylewm I put it here http://phorkie.kylewm.com/ and tried lots of different nginx params
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cweiske did you configure php on nginx yourself?
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kylewm i'm not sure what you mean, i guess so?
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cweiske do you have a line like this somewhere in your config?
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cweiske fastcgi_split_path_info ^(.+?\.php)(/.*)$;
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kylewm fastcgi_split_path_info ^(.+?\.(?:php|phar))(/.*)$;
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kylewm (I changed it)
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kylewm https://gist.github.com/kylewm/bec6c52eadfde4220ec2
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cweiske hey, it works somehow
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cweiske http://phorkie.kylewm.com/phorkie-0.4.0.phar////////////////////
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cweiske when accessing http://phorkie.kylewm.com/phorkie-0.4.0.phar
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cweiske phorkie internally appends the /
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kylewm hmm ok, I just changed the config
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cweiske how?
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kylewm so it must be close
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rascul so many slashes!
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kylewm used location /"
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kylewm location /
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kylewm instead of location ~ \.(php|phar)$
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cweiske I think phorkie does not detect the /, so it thinks it has to append it again
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addal Hey all so I so I have my own domain I'm posting to but it is static
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addal do you know any tools for POSSE? Like give them a url and they post it in all the places
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rascul addal using a static generator?
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addal rascul, yep
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rascul which one?
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cweiske kylewm - ah, that location needs to be changed, too
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rascul http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/static-sites
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cweiske kylewm, we need to find out what's wrong now
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cweiske i'll build a test phar
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rascul addal i don't know that there's any posse tools yet that are ready for use with static sites
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addal rascul, all I really know is hootsuite :x
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cweiske kylewm, place http://tmp.cweiske.de/phpinfo.phar on your server
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addal rascul, thought about doing the opposite too, write a script for jekyll to grab my latest foursquare checkins, retweets ect
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kylewm cweiske: ok it's there
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kylewm any idea what the location should be?
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cweiske keep it as it is
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cweiske I suspect a problem inside phorkie that causes the redirect loop
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bear is phorkie a bundled php app? do you want me to try to install it?
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kylewm bear: I suspect you would be infinitely more helpful to cweiske on this
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cweiske bear, yes
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cweiske it works fine on apache
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bear sure, where is the bundle?
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cweiske but I get redirect loops on nginx
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tantek welcome addal! what's your site?
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cweiske http://tmp.cweiske.de/phorkie-0.4.0.phar
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bear k, logging in now to set it up
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bear does it behae like normal php behind php-fpm ?
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cweiske kylewm, even phpinfo() gives a redirect loop This webpage has a redirect loop
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cweiske bear, I use it with fastcgi as well as mod_php on apache
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cweiske no idea about php-fpm though
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aaronpk browser might be caching...
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bear ok, let me get a baseline nginx config going...
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aaronpk try testing with curl
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addal tantek, http://ashersilberman.com/, we had a little talk about ssl :p
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cweiske aaronpk, mean me?
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aaronpk yeah
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tantek addal cool! we? and add yourself to /irc-people !
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aaronpk ive seen browsers have a tough time recovering from ewdirect loops some times
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addal tantek, all right, oh man so many lists haha
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kylewm addal: love your 404 page
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addal kylewm, thanks!
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cweiske another one with the same problem: http://stackoverflow.com/q/23814312/282601
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tantek addal, we're fans of lists :)
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cweiske I created the phar with http://p.cweiske.de/120
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ashersilberman.com edited /IRC_People (+60) "Added myself! (Addal)" (view diff)
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cweiske works fine on apache with fastcgi: http://phancap.cweiske.de/phpinfo.phar
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bear i'm getting it setup so I can help debug - just have to get a dns change in place...
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cweiske kylewm, bear - I suspect a server variable is missing/wrong
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bear k
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cweiske so PHP does not notice that it's already there and tries to redirect again and again
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cweiske kylewm, please put http://tmp.cweiske.de/phpinfo-simple.phar on your server
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kylewm woo! http://phorkie.kylewm.com/phpinfo-simple.phar
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addal tantek, got excited for all the America/Los_Angeles people, then realized it's the whole Pacific time zone
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cweiske now we need to compare server variables with http://tmp.cweiske.de/phpinfo-simple.phar
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tantek addal - are you based in LA?
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addal tantek, yep.
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tantek awesome!
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aaronpk say that gives me an idea...
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kylewm cweiske: I'm a little bit shocked that I'm running PHP 5.5... I'd installed it playing with Known but thought I downgraded
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cweiske kylewm, no problem
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bear hmm, does it require no / redirect like most php does (i.e. / -> /index.php … )
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tantek addal, next, setup a simple User: page with at least a simple h-card with your name and domain: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Ashersilberman.com
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Jeena hehe this is a funny blog http://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/ in the spirit of http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths
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aaronpk I wonder what % of people on irc-people publish an h-card on their home page with a city name or lat/lng
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tantek Jeena - it's linked from /site-deaths ;)
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tantek (nad has been for a while)
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tantek s/nad/and
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Loqi tantek meant to say: (and has been for a while)
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Jeena ah hehe ok :D
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cweiske kylewm, bear - there is a couple of variables with apache that don't exist on nginx
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bear what is that list?
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cweiske http://p.cweiske.de/121
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cweiske I suspect PATH_INFO being the culprit
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aaronpk oh are you reading $_SERVER variables expecting them to be there?
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bear path_info is always empty by default with nginx
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@cznweb RT @MyCozyCloud: IndieWebCamp (@indiewebcamp) is running: lots of awesome talks. Follow the hashtag #indietech. By the way, Benjamin will p… (twitter.com/_/status/486229979114774529)
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cweiske aaronpk, no
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cweiske php itself
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cweiske in phar::webphar()
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bear you will need to use: set $path_info $fastcgi_path_info;
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bear fastcgi_param PATH_INFO $path_info;
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cweiske I believe this at least
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cweiske kylewm, please try
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@benwerd I've been spinning my wheels on #indieweb ideas for a long time. Here's a PDF I'd forgotten I'd written, from 2009: http://benwerd.com/shoal.pdf (twitter.com/_/status/486230186317209600)
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aaronpk bear: unknown "path_info" variable
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cweiske aaronpk, we tried a minimal .phar that only runs phpinfo() from an index.php script, and get endless redirection loops
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cweiske so it's php itself
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ashersilberman.com created /User:Ashersilberman.com (+133) "Created page with "Hey all, I'm <span style= "font-size: 16px" (view diff)
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Loqi line-height: 1.625em;" class="h-card">[http://ashersilberman.com/ Asher Silberman]</span>"
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addal tantek, done :)
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tantek nicely done addal!
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tantek did you figure out that single element h-card on your own or did you copy from someone else's User: page?
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aaronpk here's an old php bug for it https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=53537
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tantek benwerd: perhaps repost that PDF as HTML?
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kylewm cweiske: my nginx is https://gist.github.com/kylewm/bec6c52eadfde4220ec2 now, and still looks the same
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benwerd tantek: I'm planning on, but I've lost the original! Will need to export and reformat extensively. Something for later.
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mko POLL: What top-level categories of entries/posts are you exposing in your primary navigation, if at all, on your IndieWeb site (i.e. Known/idno exposes everything while others expose Notes/Articles/Replies while others don't provide any top-level filters)?
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KartikPrabhu1 mko: Articles/Notes
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addal tantek, copied someone, I probably should have used divs so I could include other sites though
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aaronpk mko: articles, notes, metrics
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kylewm mko: Articles/Notes, but I'm about to add Bookmarks and Photos
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emmak mko: everything, but i'm thinking of filtering out replies
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cweiske so PATH_INFO did not help
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aaronpk no
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bear cweiske - I have your php-info.phar running - do you need any data from it?
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cweiske no, kylewm's is enough
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cweiske wait
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mko Thanks KartikPrabhu1, @aaronpk, kylewm, and emmak
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cweiske phpinfo-simple.phar or phpinfo.phar?
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bear phpinfo-simple
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cweiske simple runs on kylewm.com, too
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cweiske http://phorkie.kylewm.com/phpinfo-simple.phar/foo.php
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cweiske but the other one does not
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bear can I wget phpinfo.phar from the same place?
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cweiske yep
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cweiske tmp.cweiske.de
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gRegor` mko: "Home" is a single-article view for my site. "Archives" is a full archive of the articles. I publish notes at /notes but it's in beta, so not a part of navigation yet.
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gRegor` mko: Eventually I think my links will be: Home, Notes, About, Archives, Contact. (Notes is the only one not in nav currently)
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cweiske bear, which php version are you runnign?
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bear 5.3
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bear why does phpinfo.phar redirect to /www/index.php ?
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cweiske see http://p.cweiske.de/120
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mko Thanks, gRegor`
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bear right - but why is www/ hardcoded ?
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cweiske just an example
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kylewm that's where the index.php file is inside the phar right?
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cweiske yes
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cweiske $phar->addFromString('www/index.php', '<?php phpinfo();?>');
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bear i'm confused as I don't grok php at all - but if you are requesting php to run www/index.php then nginx doesn't know that
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cweiske I'm requesting nginx to run phpinfo.phar/www/index.php
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bear so anything going to that location needs to be passed to phpinfo.phar ?
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cweiske it actually is
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cweiske if you check http://phorkie.kylewm.com/phpinfo-simple.phar/foo.php
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cweiske /foo.php is in PATH_INFO
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cweiske but PHP internally does not notice that somehow, and redirects again and again
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cweiske checking php's source
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aaronpk oh interesting, here's an alternate way to package a phar that doesn't involve server configuration changes http://www.sitepoint.com/packaging-your-apps-with-phar/
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aaronpk basically you make an index.php file that has <?php require 'phorkie.phar'
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aaronpk ?> and then it just runs
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cweiske kylewm, please put <?php echo php_sapi_name()
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cweiske ?> in a file
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cweiske and tell us the output
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cweiske or bear
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cweiske probably cgi-fcgi
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bear <?php echo php_sapi_name()
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bear ?>
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bear err
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bear fpm-fcgi
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cweiske aha!
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cweiske there's the problem
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aaronpk mine is also running fpm
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cweiske if ((strlen(sapi_module.name) == sizeof("cgi-fcgi")-1 && !strncmp(sapi_module.name, "cgi-fcgi", sizeof("cgi-fcgi")-1))
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cweiske || (strlen(sapi_module.name) == sizeof("cgi")-1 && !strncmp(sapi_module.name, "cgi", sizeof("cgi")-1))) {
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cweiske that's the php code
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cweiske it does not know about fpm-fcgi
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@neilcford Learn Ruby, learn JavaScript, then help to make Jekyll POSSE capable. Small task really. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/486237370170474496)
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cweiske so it does not even read PATH_INFO
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aaronpk cweiske++ for debugging php source code
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Loqi cweiske has 10 karma
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cweiske http://git.php.net/?p=php-src.git;a=blob;f=ext/phar/phar_object.c;h=75aadfbc540b9929b0af563e365990c69b1ca315;hb=HEAD#l608
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bear I think I have it working with the index.php require trieck
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cweiske time for a bug report
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kylewm I tried it with index.php and require and it says "phorkie can only be used in the browser "
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kylewm and just confirming that I also get "fpm-fcgi"
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+2805) "add levels based on http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-06-26#t1403820472 (and prev/subsequent analysis), including reply-context thread!" (view diff)
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cweiske thanks
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bear cweiske - i'm also now getting "phorkie can only be used int he browser" response with the index.php trick
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tantek aaronpk - ok I expanded on what I said in IRC, into the wiki, your review is appreciated: http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Levels
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cweiske https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=67587
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aaronpk wow cool
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+85) "/* reply thread */ entire reply chain" (view diff)
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tantek also, a challenge for you (aaronpk), benwerd (in Known), and snarfed (as a WP plugin) : http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#reply_thread
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aaronpk heh, I am pretty far from doing that I think
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kylewm cweiske: in that bug report, should it be which only knows about "cgi-fcgi" and "cgi", but not about *"fpm-fcgi" *
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benwerd nods
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benwerd reaches for the bourbon
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snarfed s/snarfed/pfefferle/ :P
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aaronpk benwerd: lol
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snarfed KartikPrabhu is actually pretty close right now. finding a link
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: to what?
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cweiske commented
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cweiske thanks
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snarfed KartikPrabhu, tantek: full reply chains
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: oh... not in the sense tantek is thinking I guess
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bear cweiske - i'm afk for a short bit - but do let me know if you need more testing
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snarfed well, maybe unintentional, but still
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snarfed and related, pfefferle recently added actual threading, ie nested replies, to his wordpress plugin
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cweiske ok
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snarfed tantek: here's an example of KartikPrabhu's that's not too far off: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/marginalia-schepers
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snarfed (related bridgy feature request: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/217)
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kylewm cweiske++ for finding language-level bugs by debugging on someone else's server :P
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Loqi cweiske has 11 karma
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tantek snarfed - no its not
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tantek that's just showing *a* reply-context, a post, and then comments
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yeah it isn't what tantek is asking for :P
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tantek snarfed, see for example: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/485187603461709824
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@kartik_prabhu @shepazu I’ll support twitter on my site and you can fix your blog, deal? ;) #indieweb (https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/blog-schepers) (twitter.com/_/status/485187603461709824)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: i suppose you are thinking more link Twitter's show full conversation thingy?
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tantek and scroll up
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tantek note the THREE reply-contexts
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tantek above Kartik's tweet
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tantek *that* is what I'm talking about
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tantek and no one does that AFAIK on their own site yet
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tantek so that's the challenge
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snarfed right, i understand the difference. i guess i should have pointed to one of the comments on his post instead
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KartikPrabhu nods
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snarfed regardless, understood
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tantek someone's got to raise the bar on you guys - you're all so productive ;)
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KartikPrabhu I am aiming to do that soon, but let me get one reply-context first :P
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tantek can't have you getting bored and thinking you're "done" ;) (ahem, snarfed :D)
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tantek late lunch time!
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snarfed lol
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KartikPrabhu tantek: how about them webmentions :)
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snarfed seconded!!!
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aaronpk i've got quite the list before I get to threaded reply contexts https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues?state=open
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tantek KartikPrabhu: which ones? ;)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: on your site ;)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: it's in the list: http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#show-webmentions
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tantek aaronpk reply-context *thread* - not *threaded*
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tantek it's a single thread
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aaronpk er right
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gRegor` +1 for tantek getting webmentions. :)
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snarfed (tantek: re done, i'll usually back away slowly from any CMS side work. just not my thing personally…but thankfully i'm in the minority)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: is http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#reply_thread in your itches or working on list somewhere? ;)
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KartikPrabhu nope will add soon :P
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KartikPrabhu my itch list is getting so big i'll have to add "update itch list" to my itchlist
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tantek a lot of this is just the process of thinking through what pieces are left to build to replace personal use of Twitter
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tantek and for readers of indieweb posts to have a *higher* fidelity experience than on POSSE copies (tweets)
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cweiske kylewm, aaronpk bear - I'll implement the Phar::webPhar() logic myself in PHP, so that the index.php require trick can be used
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cweiske will take some time I presume
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KartikPrabhu tantek: actually it is! ref: https://kartikprabhu.com/itch##chaining+conversations
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tantek I think we (at least a few of us) can do that by IndieWebCamp 2015
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aaronpk cweiske: cool! I don't really understand how the phar stuff works, so i'd be much more comfortable dropping in an index.php file rather than reconfiguring my web server to handle phar files
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tantek KartikPrabhu: "chaining conversations" sounds vague ;)
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tantek the purpose of reply context thread was to define it a bit more
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KartikPrabhu hey short hand!
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cweiske aaronpk, I'd expect distros coming with .phar support now
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tantek defining = more implementable
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cweiske but it's unfortunately not so
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cweiske my debian bug is open since 2011
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tantek chaining conversations could be something crazy like reddit style threads!
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cweiske I even made patches
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes... but once i can do reply-contexts I can chain replies too to get full chained conversation
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tantek rather than just showing a single reply-context thread
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tantek types thread instead of conversation because it is less typing and thread (singular) implies linear (analogy to a physical thread)
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tantek bbiab
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emmak benwerd: don't you already support some of the reply threading in known?
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benwerd emmak: the mechanics of it, for sure, but not the actual display of a thread. It's something that definitely could be done though.
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emmak hmm... i thought i saw an example where someone replied to your post, and it also displayed your reply to their reply
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kylewm interesting, I'm getting Google +1's on a post I didn't post to google https://kylewm.com/note/2014/07/05/1
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snarfed kylewm: looks like this post: https://plus.google.com/+MatthewGraybosch/posts/gZZGSs3njtL
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kylewm snarfed: do you know why the URLs are broken?
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kylewm e.g., https://plus.google.com/103251633033550231172/posts/gZZGSs3njtL#+1ed-by-110456762520324840400
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snarfed yeah, i recently started adding fabricated fragments to make "permalinks" when there aren't native ones
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snarfed and #+ may be bad somehow
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snarfed background, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/215
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snarfed looks like g+ is 302ing them. i should probably change them
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aaronpk you might need to encode the +
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kylewm ohh, gotcha
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snarfed wow, you can't put *anything* into a G+ fragment
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snarfed e.g. https://plus.google.com/103251633033550231172/posts/gZZGSs3njtL#xyz
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snarfed sigh
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snarfed KartikPrabhu, looks like i have to take away your feature :/
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snarfed (https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/215)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yeah reasonable :P
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aaronpk technically http clients shouldn't be sending the fragment to the server when makign the request
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kylewm must be javascript doing the redirecting?
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aaronpk yeah looks like it
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snarfed kylewm: if i include the fragment in a curl request, i get a 302 there too
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snarfed so must be both
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kylewm wow!
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aaronpk but the redirect that curl gets is to the actual post
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snarfed sorry, aaronpk is right, didn't look closely enough
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snarfed fixed. kylewm, if you drop the fragment from those urls in your cms, they should work
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: do you de-duplicate based on the u-url instead of the webmention source?
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kylewm I think that must be why it doesn't affect me
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snarfed kylewm: interesting, that's a good guess
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snarfed disappointing because usually u-url would be the right choice, and bridgy is just a bad special case here
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kylewm snarfed: unrelated but I also think brid.gy has conditioned us to expect e-content on likes/favorites
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snarfed actually, re g+ fragments, i don't think KartikPrabhu had a de-duping bug, i think he was just interested in comment permalinks
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kylewm I was thinking about randomly displaying one of a list of synonyms ["likes this", "favorited this", "thinks this is fabulous", ...]
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snarfed kylewm: lol totally
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snarfed i think it's a fair expectation though. i bet the indieweb CMSes that currently post likes etc (the few that exist) include e-content too, since they would for normal posts
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kylewm I do have one, but it's empty https://kylewm.com/like/2014/07/06/1
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snarfed actually most big consumers i know of (known, pfefferle's wp plugins, bridgy blogs) have default representations and only consider content if it's there, or not at all
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snarfed did you see an example of a CMS that breaks on a like (reshare, etc) w/o e-content?
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kylewm that post ^
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snarfed aha, right
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snarfed sorry, i'm slow
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kylewm snarfed: I know https://snarfed.org/2013-08-18_im-slow
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kylewm ;)
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snarfed ahahaha
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Loqi awesome
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snarfed funny, you render likes almost exactly the same way i do, except mine is inside an e-content
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kylewm maybe that's what i should do
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snarfed e.g. https://snarfed.org/2014-07-03_indieweb-and-respect-network-two-roads-to-decentralizing-the-network-wordyard
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snarfed eh who knows
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kylewm hmm, your like on here http://stream.withknown.com/2014/we-open-sourced-our-user-research-materials-idnouser-research-if-youre looks good
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snarfed yup. i expect he wants/needs e-content, but he's still doing his own rendering for likes
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snarfed (heh, not sure why i'm talking about benwerd like he's not here :P)
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benwerd wakes up
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snarfed not urgent
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emmak snarfed: my blog breaks without the "liked this" e-content, since i'm displaying likes/reposts the same as normal replies
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@skinny @t I want to talk what #indieweb can learn from Medium at #yxyy (twitter.com/_/status/486256338809286656)
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emmak not sure what the right thing to do is, since i've also seen likes with comments in the e-content
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kylewm benwerd: sorry for spamming your site, but I discovered you are looking for u-like and not u-like-of!
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benwerd Oh!
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benwerd I will take a look at that later this afternoon
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benwerd Thanks for finding that!
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snarfed emmak: yeah, no answer on http://indiewebcamp.com/like . i think it's unclear, or maybe both are ok.
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kylewm benwerd: welcome! still debugging my new markup
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tantek snarfed - re: backing away slowly from any CMS work - I don't disagree. :)
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tantek snarfed, however, would you consider bridgy-based reply-context-thread retrieving/caching?
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tantek it's like the flipside of comments
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snarfed tantek: heh. not sure. maybe! i don't have a clear picture of what it would be yet
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tantek snarfed - a service you could request get_reply_context(silo_permalink) and have it return a URL (on bridgy) of the full reply-context-thread for that silo_permalink
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snarfed basically, "here's an h-entry permalink, walk its in-reply-to chain until it stops and return everything"?
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snarfed yeah
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tantek and by "return everything" - actually put all that on an HTML page all marked up
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tantek just as Bridgy does now for backfeeds
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snarfed it'd probably be a standalone service, but maybe
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tantek and thus the "return everything" is just "return a URL on bridgy to everything"
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tantek since reply-context-threads are public
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tantek putting them all on an HTML page then takes advantage of all the web-layer caching stuff
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tantek rather than having to build API-response caching
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snarfed so, a naive algorithm would be, fetch the in-reply-to, if it has its own in-reply-to then push and repeat, otherwise stop
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tantek and yes, walk its in-reply-to chain *upon first request*, and then build that page and keep it around
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tantek of course look for cycles so someone doesn't troll your code.
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tantek er, servicd
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tantek s/servicd/service
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Loqi tantek meant to say: er, service
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snarfed one catch is that in practice right now, many reply chains all in-reply-to the original post, not each other
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tantek the neat thing is, if you have a reply-context-thread cached for something already higher-up in a thread, you can simply stop walking at that point
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snarfed twitter and a few cutting edge people here are the exception
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snarfed technically yes. you'd miss updates, but meh
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tantek snarfed - hence scoping it for silos
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tantek like with twitter - no updates
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tantek and caching helps insulate against deletes
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snarfed although we actually want to support intentional deletes, ie 405s, right?
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snarfed nothing's ever easy :P
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tantek 410s
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snarfed ah sure
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tantek re: " all in-reply-to the original post, not each other" - then that's not a reply *chain*
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snarfed sure, happy to defer to that as the ideal…but *in practice* it happens a lot
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snarfed anyway. not a big deal
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tantek even twitter only shows a *single thread* of reply-contexts *above* the "current" reply permalink
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tantek it's not even an ideal - it's just not implemented anywhere
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tantek reply-context-thread != all previous comments on an item
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aaronpk fwiw I consider the current bridgy behavior of having replies further down the chain markedu p as in-reply-to the top a convienent mistake
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tantek interesing
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aaronpk i mean it's nice that my site shows the whole reply thread
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aaronpk I thought I was going to have to implement a lot more server-side code to do that myself
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aaronpk so it's a convenient hack of sorts
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snarfed right, that wa sthe intent
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snarfed i understand the model tantek has in mind. i'm just saying, in practice, both in silos and on individual sites, many non-threaded comment chains have comments that reply to each other in meaning, even though the underlying data model may have them all attached to the root post.
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snarfed twitter is the one big exception
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tantek it's not my model - it's Twitter's model :)
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tantek I'm just reverse engineering
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snarfed sure, ok. my point is, that model is probably what we ideally want, but it's in the minority
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snarfed which is fine. just trying to think through the existing precedents
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emmak twitter is the only silo that allows replying to replies, vs the original post?
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snarfed emmak: no, definitely not. afaik fb, disqus, wp all support it in some cases
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snarfed but in practice people often don't bother
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snarfed it's kind of an example of a general rule i've always liked: a vocal minority may love authoring metadata explicitly (ratings, tags, explicitly replying to a specific comment), but in general, the vast majority of people can't be bothered
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emmak i think the trend toward linear displays of comments is an improvement over the older branching/threading style
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snarfed emmak++ agreed
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Loqi emmak has 3 karma
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emmak modeling comments as a tree is probably not intuitive to non programmers, and i think it encourages derailing conversations
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snarfed yup. usenet had a similar problem with line by line quoting
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snarfed great post about this: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/BuildingCommunitieswithSo.html
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gRegor` I'm thinking of setting up a bookmarklet to easily populate the reply-context for my new note interface. Are any JS people working on similar already / does it already exist? I didn't see anything on /reply-context
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kylewm gRegor`: populating something more than the URL?
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gRegor` Yeah. Specifically looking to use with Twitter
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gRegor` But could branch out from there.
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gRegor` The tweet text, for now.
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aaronpk gRegor`: my bookmarklet just provides the URL, my posting interface brings in the reply context info
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snarfed gRegor`: here's what i use: https://snarfed.org/indieweb-press-this-bookmarklets-for-wordpress
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kylewm I had one for twitter that grabs the @-name and adds it to content too
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gRegor` aaronpk: Does it pull in the reply-context server side, or client side as you're writing the note?
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gRegor` snarfed: Thanks, I'll take a look
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snarfed uses fb and twitter embeds for (de facto) reply context, e.g. https://snarfed.org/2014-06-29_twitter-t-thanks-mrflix-for-figuring , https://snarfed.org/2014-05-28_alexis-shoemate-for-you-and-gina
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aaronpk gRegor`: it looks kind of like this https://vimeo.com/48097093
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aaronpk notice the URL bar just has the twitter URL i'm replying to. the JS makes a request to my server after that to load the pre-filled reply context data, but it's my server fetching that from twitter
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gRegor` Interesting, snarfed. Looking at the source, is this using the bridgy fb app for the fb embeds? I'm not sure I want to do native embeds like that, but it certainly captures everything.
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gRegor` aaronpk: Cool, so as you're posting it's asynchronously fetching the reply-context? Is that part of p3k open source?
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aaronpk nah it's kind of baked in.
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aaronpk i'm going to be doing the same thing with Quill soon tho
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aaronpk my goal is to replace the native p3k posting interface with Quill
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gRegor` aaronpk: Think this might be what I'm looking for https://github.com/aaronpk/php-mf2-twitter-shim
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snarfed gRegor`: no, the embeds don't need bridgy at all. the js includes bridgy publish links for twitter and fb responses so that it actually performs them in those silos.
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aaronpk gRegor`: ah cool. also barnaby has some stuff here https://github.com/barnabywalters/php-mf-cleaner
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gRegor` is that not the baked in part you're referring to?
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aaronpk i forgot that I made the twitter-shim thing into its own package. the rest is like js/php interface stuff
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aaronpk just noticed that the genshi box indiegogo ended https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/genshi-box-personal-social-networking-appliance#activity
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tantek snarfed - I'd say replying to replies is not an "edge case" at all, but rather that Twitter's UX made it so seamless to do so that now it's a mainstream thing to reply to replies (or any tweet) without bothering / needing to know how deep does it go. It "just works"
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snarfed tantek: maybe! i was careful to say minority, not edge case, but that may be true
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@pfefferle @voxpelli just released a new version of http://pfefferle.github.io/openwebicons/contact/ with your webpage-webmention service https://webmention.herokuapp.com (twitter.com/_/status/486277866091741184)
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snarfed i still feel like i see flat comments much more than nested in practice, but maybe that's just my anecdotal experience
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tantek snarfed - agreed with "flat comments" (all replying to the same original) more "in practice" (e.g. on FB)
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tantek on Twitter however, I'd be willing to bet that at this point most replies are in-reply-to a *reply* rather than an original tweet.
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snarfed sure, i definitely concede(d) that. i think we're agreeing violently at this point. :P
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tantek snarfed, I'm just trying to gather data ;)
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tantek also - at the point where we have indieweb presentation of "notes" that supersets Twitter presentation of "tweets", we've crossed the point where it makes sense once again (from a UX perspective) to always end tweet POSSE copies with a URL to the original
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tantek right now reply-context-thread is I think the only major thing missing from various popular IndieWeb note presentations
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tantek (not mine of course, I'm missing much more, but rather, like I said, yourself, aaronpk / p3k, benwerd / known, etc.)
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@pfefferle I think I need to add some CSS but I need a WebMention first, to see how it looks like ;) (twitter.com/_/status/486279143194386432)
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tantek and you're also right to think about how could a service (bridgy or like bridgy) provide that info/data (reply-context-thread) as a service.
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aaronpk that's an interesting idea... doing it as a service
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aaronpk cause then it could be expanded to work with non-silo chains too
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tantek aaronpk - see above about how a service could *cache* reply-context-threads
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snarfed tantek's idea, not mine! and definitely a good one
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aaronpk sorry so thick conversation thread and only partially followng
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tantek snarfed, I thought that's what you meant by not wanting to touch CMS code - I suppose I did jump to the conclusion that you were implying a service to do it instead.
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tantek aaronpk no problem see indiewebcamp.com/irc/today##cach
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tantek hopes
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aaronpk cache
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@pfefferle @voxpelli I think I need to add some CSS but I need a WebMention first, to see how it looks like ;) (twitter.com/_/status/486279765943652353)
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aaronpk ah yeah
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snarfed tantek: i'll take rel-muse credit then :P
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tantek aaronpk - hmm - appears fragmentions don't work on IRC logs
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-07##caching
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aaronpk they work if you have the browser extension installed ;)
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tantek a-ha - the logs don't include the fragmention js
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tantek whereas the rest of indiewebcamp.com does
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tantek KartikPrabhu: you said "let me get one reply-context first " - in that context, does this sequential list of reply-context implementation levels help? does it make sense? http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Levels
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tantek addal, nice work. Have you checked http://ashersilberman.com/ with indiewebify.me?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes those levels make sense
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KartikPrabhu though I intend to get icon/dt/content/author all in one go :P
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@Ejones82 RT @MyCozyCloud: IndieWebCamp (@indiewebcamp) is running: lots of awesome talks. Follow the hashtag #indietech. By the way, Benjamin will p… (twitter.com/_/status/486285753291259904)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: good for you! well then the levels aren't that useful to you ;)
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tantek I suppose I'm looking at them as useful to me as they break down the amount of code you need to write into smaller chunks
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KartikPrabhu there is a lot more work from going to displaying various small info to getting threaded replies
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tantek that build upon each other
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KartikPrabhu tantek: once you get some mf2 equivalent of the original then all those things become the same code
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aaronpk not the last one. the last one is hard.
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: except the last one yes :)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: not necessarily - authorship goes beyond just mf2 of the h-entry
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KartikPrabhu yes... but how is that different from any webmention parsing algo to display comments/
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tantek getting the mf2 equivalent of the original is only enough to do http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#published
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tantek then you need to implement /authorship on top of that to get http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#author_name
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KartikPrabhu I think if you parse incoming webmentions then you can parse reply-contexts similarly
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tantek then on top of *that* you have to implement intelligent truncating/ellipsing/summarizing to get http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#original_content
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KartikPrabhu which is why I am taking shepazu's suggestion to allow incoming webmentions from Twitter
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KartikPrabhu tantek: you should get incoming webmention parsing first which will make you do all those things :P
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KartikPrabhu then use the same for reply-contextx
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I see that as much harder as then I need to a UI to edit / delete / block
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tantek so other way around
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KartikPrabhu aah fair enough
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tantek doing a better job with reply-contexts is a building block toward getting incoming webmention parsing!
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KartikPrabhu has not needed to block anyon yet but he is not famous
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I've gotten many Twitter @-replies which I would NOT want on my own site
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: let's write a greasemonkey script that wraps bret's webmention.io rendering code
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: what is webmnetion.io rendering code do?
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tantek and since I made the leap to sign-up with Bridgy and webmention.io - all those are being sent and queued up in webmention.io
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tantek so I already have webmentions that I would need to delete / block
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tantek they're just not being rendered
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aaronpk wow interesting
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KartikPrabhu ha!
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tantek hence, back to reply-contexts first
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KartikPrabhu yeah I think the other way around makes sense for your case
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: http://bret.io/assets/js/webmention.js
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tantek KartikPrabhu: how does it not make sense for every case?
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tantek pretty sure reply-context parsing/display is a provable subset of webmention parsing/display
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kylewm tantek: I've literally never gotten a reply on twitter that I would mind being on my site :)
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KartikPrabhu becasue I already have webmention working so I don't need the steps you mention... I just have to parse my reply-contexts like I parse my incoming webmentions
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tantek decides to have a math argument with a physicist. ;)
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KartikPrabhu it is a subset, but I already have most of the code working for webmentions :)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: then it is good that I'm coming at it from a more naïve perspective.
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KartikPrabhu true!
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KartikPrabhu it might make sense to start the way you are doing
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tantek I'm trying to document the easiest path to take for new developers
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tantek smaller, more incremental steps
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KartikPrabhu agrees
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bret kylewm my script is broken :(
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KartikPrabhu oh
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KartikPrabhu is bad at reading JS anyway
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bret KartikPrabhu that was my first javascript!
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bret XD
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KartikPrabhu ooo... ambitious :)
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bret i based it off other work
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bret bit it needs lots of work
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KartikPrabhu mine was an alert box ;)
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bret s/bit/but
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Loqi bret meant to say: but it needs lots of work
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snarfed you're probably all already aware of it, but just fyi, voxpelli's http://webmention.herokuapp.com/ is the other js project like that worth looking at
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tantek wonders how many indieweb sites have their avatar/icon at /logo.jpg or /photo.jpg
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KartikPrabhu avatar.jpg for me ;)
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KartikPrabhu but it is /static/avatar.jpg
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gRegor` /assets/img/profile.jpg for me
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gRegor` Document it on the wiki? :)
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bret snarfed yes, thats a more complete thing that my thing sort of does
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tantek perhaps this would be useful for an indieweb site-cache
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bret KartikPrabhu and kylewm i would start with https://webmention.herokuapp.com/
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tantek (rather than address book)
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aaronpk don't forget that avatars may change per post
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tantek aaronpk - example?
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aaronpk coming soon ;)
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bret tantek: https://chat.meatspac.es/
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aaronpk bret++
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tantek is not going to worry about it until it's been documented on the wiki ;)
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Loqi bret has 17 karma
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gRegor` http://sixtwothree.org/blog/now-accepting-webmentions/ is using webmention.js, I think
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tantek tos;dr
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tantek re that meat thing
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aaronpk hah they added a TOS splash screen? they must have had some sort of issue
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kylewm bret: KartikPrabhu: the greasemonkey thing was a joke, to forcibly implement comments on tantek's site
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tantek aaronpk - you currently have a static list of domain, full name, twitter handle right?
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aaronpk tantek: yes
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tantek so that's what I'm talking about
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aaronpk and most of my avatars are out of date now :(
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tantek expanding that with an icon URL
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aaronpk oh I already do that
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tantek oh ok - do you document this anywhere?
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aaronpk probably not
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tantek because it sounds like shaners was basically trying to reinvent it in his "addressbook" session
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aaronpk it's silly, and I want to change it
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aaronpk most of the avatars are broken now
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aaronpk because people move them all the time. and if they were from twitter, then the twitter url changed
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tantek aaronpk, simple answer - for people who break their avatar permalinks, let them eat their dynamic twitter avatar
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tantek i.e. just leave the avatar field blank
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tantek use their twitter handle
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aaronpk oh yeah twitter started doing that, I should fall back to that now
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tantek e.g. https://twitter.com/benwerd/profile_image
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tantek hint hint
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tantek simple lesson: if you break your avatar URLs on your own site, we will use your silo avatar :P
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KartikPrabhu tantek: that is supposed to be deprecated or something
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tantek KartikPrabhu: citation?
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KartikPrabhu looking
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tantek (besides snarfed rumor)
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snarfed it's on the wiki
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tantek yes, your rumor is on the wiki :P
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snarfed it's my favorite rumor and i'm sticking with it, dammit P:
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tantek lol!
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KartikPrabhu tantek: http://indiewebcamp.com/twitter##just+speculation+though
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KartikPrabhu ha es!
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KartikPrabhu booo
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tantek yes there is a citation for the rumor :P
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gRegor` My favorite rumo(u)r(s). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumours_(album)
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tantek tommorris - is there a wikipedia tag for {{rumor}} or {{speculative}}
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KartikPrabhu [[citation needed]]
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tantek {{fact}}
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+173) "/* icon */ use example of benwerd since his own site's avatar/image URL has moved around" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - have you documented your site-info table anywhere?
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aaronpk unlikely. is it worth documenting even though I hate it and want to change it? lol
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tantek aaronpk - yes please!
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tantek because I'm looking at implementing one myself just to add icons to reply-contexts!
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aaronpk i'll share what i've done and add a giant disclaimer
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tantek (because I don't want to *only* support icons in tweet reply-contexts)
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tantek (wouldn't want replies to silo posts to look *better* than replies to indieweb posts)
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tantek plus while I'm at it - I'll put the "full name" in there too so I can show author name for indieweb reply-contexts, whereas I'm ok with relegating tweet reply-contexts to just showing @-name for now.
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tantek aaronpk - thank you! even if you only share it somewhere on /p3k
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aaronpk yep it's going there for now
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tantek was thinking about implementing it as a static HTML file of h-cards at my root, something like site_info_cache.html
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tantek manually updating it for now
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tantek eventually replacing that with automatic cache invalidation - how hard could that be? ;)
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aaronpk that's pretty much what I want to be doing instead of this
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tantek aaronpk - do you have a name for this piece of plumbing?
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aaronpk i'm calling it "local nicknames" on the p3k page
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aaronpk you'l see why in a sec
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tantek cool!
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tantek I remember that you were using it to show full names (and link to indiewebsites) in your posts' people mentions, and then translate those to @-mentions in your POSSE copies.
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tantek I vaguely remember barnabywalters maybe also doing that?
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tantek it's a higher-fidelity POSSE detail that I don't know if we captured anywhere
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tantek oh I did capture it: http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter##translate%20indiewebsite%20people%20references
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kylewm I do that too!
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+1366) "/* Features */ add local nickname section, probably more to add later" (view diff)
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aaronpk k that's a start
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kylewm but undocumented, so it doesn't exist
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tantek kylewm - example?
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k#Local_Nicknames
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kylewm tantek: https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/07/01/1
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aaronpk will add screenshot later
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aaronpk heading out for now
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tantek kylewm++ that is awesome!!!
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Loqi kylewm has 22 karma
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kylewm thanks!
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kylewm I used the wiki syntax, like "demo that [[Ben Werdmüller|Ben]], [[Emma Kuo|Emma]], and [[Aaron Parecki|Aaron]] put together at IWC."
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kylewm not sure i'm happy with it
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tantek the sparkline graphics of people are really nice
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kylewm particularly ben's umlaut
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tantek kylewm - I'd likely use @-names even when "authoring" and then have my software automatically upgrade those to indieweb photos/names
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kylewm tantek: I'm liking that idea too, I didn't realize that's what aaronpk did
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tantek.com edited /p3k (-1) "that screenshot should go with previous section" (view diff)
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kylewm https://kylewm.com/admin/addressbook if anyone's interested
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tantek whoa
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tantek ok, two examples definitely deserves a page documenting this plumbing/feature/phenomenon
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tantek kylewm - though you used /addressbook - I feel like that term is a) dated, and b) implies private data
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tantek dated - note that iOS uses the term "Contacts" instead now
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tantek but "contacts" seems to also imply private data
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kylewm so probably not /rolodex either?
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tantek and really it's a cache
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kylewm it could totally be private data, i don't have it linked anywhere
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tantek because all that info should be rebuildable from just the URLs
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tantek currently none of it is private
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tantek and I think it's useful to have lists/caches of stuff like that are *completely* public data
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kylewm inability to hide your contacts list on Facebook is kind of a big privacy concern
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tantek people-cache sounds creepy
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tantek aaronpk, if all you have for someone is a Twitter photo URL, just delete it from the table
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tantek and then dynamically use the Twitter profile image redirect URL
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tantek per http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Profile_Image_URLs
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tantek since you also already keep their Twitter @-name in the table
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tantek dynamically construct the avatar URL from that
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tantek and let the browser handle the redirect in the img src