#indiewebcamp 2014-07-28

2014-07-28 UTC
gRegor` and lukebrooker joined the channel
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herbsmn
are there indiewebcamp web developers that work for hire? i have a friend who is running for political office who wants a website built with this capability.
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aaronpk
herbsmn: you might want to get in touch with benwerd from http://withknown.com
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herbsmn
thx
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bret
might interested to start a bounty board
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bret
interesting*
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KartikPrabhu
what's that?
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bret
it might interesting to see what people who are willing to pay for indieweb things are willing to pay for
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KartikPrabhu
herbsmn: when you say "website built with this capability" what capabilities is one seeking? Curious as to what features people outside indiewebcamp are interested in...
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jclark_
non Google/Twitter/Facebook indieauth server (yes, reviewing distributed-indieauth but my coding chops aren't quite there yet)
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jclark_
I'd pay for that, fwiw
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snarfed
jclark_: indieauth also supports github, persona, sms, and gpg key (just fyi)
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snarfed
also email i think
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jclark_
thanks snarfed, I have those
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jclark_
herbsmn: if site is set up, how will people learn what's there/why valuable/how to use? I'd like to help with that, would help me learn too.
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KartikPrabhu
jclark_ : what do you mean by "how will people learn what's there/why valuable/how to use" ?
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ShaneHudson
People can understand the value of something without nessecarily being able to do it themselves
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jclark_
right, and perhaps I'm thinking that it's more transparent in functionality than a few minutes ago. Just learned of indiewebcamp today, trying to take it in.
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jclark_
and offer help if/when appropriate for a teachable newb
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KartikPrabhu
jclark_: I am confused. Are you referring to the readers of a website or the builders?
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KartikPrabhu
more on Twitter recommending brands: http://img.ly/zxwe
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jclark_
KarticPrabhu: I was referring to readers, but I was confused.
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KartikPrabhu
jclark_ : do you feel that readers of an indiewebsite need more direction than say 'usual' websites?
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jclark_
no
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jclark_
but when i was confused, I thought there might be
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KartikPrabhu
I see. indiewebsites are just blogs with a lot of "social" features if you will
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KartikPrabhu
so if readers know how to use websites/blogs in general they should be pretty fine
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jclark_
thx KartikPrabhu
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post-by-email
uploaded /File:20140728-021335.jpg "Uploaded via email by =?UTF-8?B?R2nhuqNpIHBow6Fw?= marketing =?UTF-8?B?aGnhu4d1IHF14bqj?= <nhuycattuong1*@*ail.com>"
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@judico
sheesh. Clearly I wasn't looking in the right place. Just discovered @indiewebcamp goodness. Sweet.
(twitter.com/_/status/493581044096831489)
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aaronpk
a couple car2go trips are on my site now! http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/09/143337/ however i'm blocked on importing the rest
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bret
nice aaronpk :)
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bret
did you make too many requests?
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KartikPrabhu
jdas priest Twitter's photo upload is so slow
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KartikPrabhu
is this a sign that I shouldnot POSSE photo posts to Twitter ?
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KartikPrabhu
yes! it is a "note with photo" ;)
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KartikPrabhu
yeah well Twitter can sick a duck!
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KartikPrabhu
is this channel PG?
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /photos (+186) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ added me"
(view diff)
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@judico
@dsearls @indiewebcamp @t Finding my way, slowly. This is much of what I was looking for back in 2010 at #IIW.
(twitter.com/_/status/493631574705844224)
Kopfstein, jclark_, chrissaad, cweiske and jsilvestre joined the channel
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aaronpk
bret: no I just need to merge all my gps logs into a single location so that I can query the route for the car2go trips from it
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cweiske
aaronpk, "not quite"?
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aaronpk
not quite what?
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aaronpk
indieauth.com is not a "fallback", either a person signing in or a service can choose to use it if they want, and the other party doesn't need to care.
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cweiske
services speaking indieauth can fall back to indieauth.com if there is no auth endpoint link on the user's page
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aaronpk
I wouldn't call it falling back though
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aaronpk
a better way of saying it is a service can fall back to relmeauth
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aaronpk
and indieauth.com is an easy way to do that
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aaronpk
noticing quite a bit of "please remove me from this conversation" messages on twitter
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aaronpk
when there's a long reply chain to multiple peopole
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cweiske
aaronpk, it's kinda strange to have "buy a VW" listed as first point on the mercedes-how-to page
KevinMarks, krendil, michielbdejong, kylewm, Sebastien-L, danbri, eschnou, friedcell, squeakytoy, adactio and barnabywalters joined the channel
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Loqi
barnabywalters: aaronpk left you a message on 7/27 at 11:53am: when I sign in to your site, it sets a client_id of waterpigs.co.uk/login which doesn't exist!
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Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message on 7/25 at 2:32pm: if you're interested in giving a talk about IndieWeb sometime 2014-10-20..24, in particular how you've built or setup your own indieweb site, check this out and make a proposal! http://html5devconf.com/cfs-oct2014.html - feel free to mention that Tantek recommended you make a proposal (I was on their speaker board for a while) - and that offer is open to
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benwerd
Oh! I wish I'd seen this. I did propose a talk, but didn't think to add tantek as a reference.
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aaronpk
IndieWeb hack night is up on PDX devweek! http://pdx.devweek.org/
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benwerd
Nice! In line with HWC - will you video-sync?
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aaronpk
we definitely can. not sure how useful it will be tho.
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aaronpk
yeah I'm turning this week's HWC into hack night in portland
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bret
for dev week
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bret.io
edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+19) "/* URLs */ Added id slug"
(view diff)
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bret
im soooo close on gitpub
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bret
im held up on a contribution to a node module I want to expand a little
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bret
but the author is really nice and interested in the contribution
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aaronpk
interesting
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aaronpk
you can always make it use your fork from github
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bret
yeah that just occured to me too :)
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bret
again, everything is like a 20 point turn with node
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bret
but its cool to see the modularity work together finally, when you can simply rearrange a route to fix bugs
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aaronpk
bear: sorry I didn't see your indieauth issues earlier
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bear
oh my - I should have closed that as workign properly - it was a glitch between my brain and the code :)
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aaronpk
it's fine :) now there's more docs in case someone else searches it
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bear
I have my indieauth code working just fine now
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bear
I even wrote a quick post explaining how I implemented it in python (not that i'm good at this wordsmithy thing)
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bear
nods
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bear
I wanted to put it out there so folks could see a python flask implementation
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bear
I have also asked one of the security folks on our team to give it a review
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aaronpk
great!
scor, barnabywalters and indie-visitor joined the channel
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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anNofMe
hello everyone - instead of lurking, I thought I should introduce myself: I’m Kevin Bonham. I’m a biologist (immunology/microbiology) - I’m a complete newb when it comes to coding/development, but I’m 100% on board with the principals of the indieweb, and I hope to contribute something, even if it’s only the perspective of a naif
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bear
welcome anNofMe
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bear
all perspectives are helpful - especially a newcomer. without having new folks try to do their own domain we won't know what areas are in need of fixing
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bear
our main documentation site is the IndieWeb wiki - http://indiewebcamp.com/
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anNofMe
Yeah, I’ve been crawling all over that website for a couple of days now (first heard about the project from Kevin Marks on TWiG)
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bear
cool - a lot of people lurk and are active across all timezones, so please do ask any question and one of us will answer
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barnabywalters
greetings anNofMe!
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anNofMe
I’m currently trying to figure out the best system for setting up website. I have a passing familiarity with html, and I’ve done wordpress before, but since everything there is generated behind the scenes in ways I don’t understand, I’m going to try to avoid it
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bear
the first question to solve that problem is do you have access to setup your own service
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anNofMe
now attempting github pages… will definitely ask questions when they come up, but I prefer to attempt to solve problems by banging my head against them for a while first :-)
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barnabywalters
anNofMe: if you don’t currently have a personal site at all, the best place to start is to set up a simple static HTML profile page
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barnabywalters
and then figure out how to go from there depending on what your priorities are (i.e. what itches you want to scratch the most)
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barnabywalters
anNofMe: some people here use github pages, and have documented their experiences here http://indiewebcamp.com/Github
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anNofMe
barnabywalters: thanks!
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KevinMarks
Sounds like POSSE?
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barnabywalters
protip: to find out about X, first look at indiewebcamp.com/X, or ask Loqi like this:
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barnabywalters
what is Github?
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anNofMe
barnabywalters: I’m at the point where I have a static html page up (kescobo.github.io) and I’m working on getting it redirected to my personal url
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barnabywalters
anNofMe: nice! what’s your personal URL?
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anNofMe
annof.me
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anNofMe
also kevinbonham.com (that’s currently squarespace-generated), but I’m trying the indieweb thing in this new space
indie-visitor, Sebastien-L, tantek, chrissaad, barnabywalters and willnorris joined the channel
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tantek
Geojson - what are the use cases it's good for?
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aaronpk
GeoJSON for a number of reasons: 1) it's easy to visualize in mapping libraries like Leaflet
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aaronpk
2) it has a way to attach arbitrary properties to points, which is where I store data like speed, battery %, walking/running/driving/etc
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bear
i'm curious about your flat file db with indexing aaronpk - I would love to implement that instead of rolling my own
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tantek
1) Programmer convenience, ok, sounds good for an ephemeral/intermediate/cache format. But not storage.
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aaronpk
I can't think of any better format for long-term archiving of this data
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willnorris
in case anyone wants to try out Google Domains, I’ve now got a few invites I can share. I’m sure some people won’t want to host their domain with Google, which is totally fine… but I’ve really appreciated the simplicity of the interface.
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aaronpk
one-row-per-line in this file has some great properties as well. I tried to capture a lot of the reasoning/motivations/background in that article.
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aaronpk
each record gets a built-in ID, which is the filename and line number
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aaronpk
so my "database IDs" become things like "2014/05/02.json#130"
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aaronpk
barnabywalters: here's what my spatial index looks like as files on disk https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/edb21402ab1d9168ba3e
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bret
willnorris cool!
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bret
are you involved in that project?
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willnorris
nope, just a big fan of it for obvious reasons :)
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bret
yeah happy to see google taking that seriosly
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: interesting — so given a point, you figure out which bounding box it would be in, see if a file for that box exists and then look in there
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aaronpk
for inserting?
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bret
willnorris do you know anything about google doing ssl certs in the future?
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: inserting or searching
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aaronpk
you always have to start at the top of the tree to insert
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aaronpk
so you first start with 0,0,360,180 and check if it's full. if it's full, find out which child contains the point (nw,ne,sw,se) and insert into the child
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willnorris
bret: not anything that I’m aware of, but I would certainly *love* for us to get into that. It certainly seems like something we would do eventually, but no idea of actual plans to do so
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aaronpk
so it's a recursive process because the same process repeats on the child node
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aaronpk
p.s. I've got a couple of coupons for 1 year free of hosting at Bluehost if anyone is interested
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anNofMe
was just looking at bluehost - all of the upselling they were trying to do was a bit off-putting
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anNofMe
but it’s hard to beat free i suppose
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anNofMe
anyone have any experience using amazon S3 for static web-pages?
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cweiske
does anyone know the current state of web intents?
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tantek
cweiske see indiewebcamp.com/webactions
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cweiske
that page tells me that IWC again reinvents the wheel.
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cweiske
but what is the state of web intents?
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tantek
cweiske except that web intents never actually worked from a user perspective. hard to reinvent a dead-end square wheel.
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tantek
so you're wrong about "again" and about "reinvents" and about "wheel"
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cweiske
I should have known better than to ask here
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tantek
cweiske - please rephrase
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tantek
web intents for all practical purposes died when Chrome removed support - ages ago
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cweiske
as I read, it added support with chrome29
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tantek
I should say, removed *experimental* support because the user experience was horrible
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cweiske
which was not too far ago
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Loqi
fo sho
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cweiske
there was a JS shim, which made it work without browser support
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tantek
haha "work" - there was never anything which gave any kind of reasonable user experience with web intents
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tantek
that's the problem - it was designed from plumbing up, rather than user experience down
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tantek
cweiske last I saw in Chrome was this announcement of removal - almost two years ago: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-intents/2012Nov/0000.html
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tantek
re-reads logs from this morning
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cuibonobo
tantek: i was trying out your RelMeAuth page but I can't seem to get it to work with my domain
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cuibonobo
"Looks like I can't do anything with the webpage you suggested"
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tantek
cuibonobo: yeah it's currently busted due to the relmeauth.php library being out of date with Twitter / OAuth updates :(
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tantek
needs to add a "Need Help With" section to User:Tantek.com with relmeauth.php at the top of the list
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cuibonobo
tantek: oh! gotcha.
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tantek
aaronpk, re: "way to attach arbitrary properties to points, which is where I store data like speed, battery %, walking/running/driving/etc" - those sound like "waypoints" - is that accurate? (rather than just abstract mathematical points)
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gRegor`
As a fallback, it works if you enter your twitter URL, correct tantek?
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tantek
gRegor`: it should - or if you even enter your @-name - it will auto-fill that
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gRegor`
Nice usability
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gRegor`
Is relmeauth on github or your wiki, tantek?
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gRegor`
s/auth/auth.php/
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Loqi
gRegor` meant to say: Is relmeauth.php on github or your wiki, tantek?
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aaronpk
Tantek: yes "waypoints", or as they are often called in geo land, "features"
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bnvk
aaronpk: is their some feed or way for my personal notes that have #IndieWeb in them to get pulled into here from Loqi the way he does for Tweets?
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Loqi
who, me?
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aaronpk
I need to make Loqi a pubsub subscriber
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aaronpk
Then you'd just ping your hub
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bnvk
ok, that answer is it then :)
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aaronpk
Do you publish a lot of #indieweb notes that you don't push to twitter?
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bnvk
hrm some here and there
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bnvk
I want to post less random #Indieweb specific tweets out to Twitter
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aaronpk
Loqi should subscribe to everyone's sites listed on /irc-people
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bnvk
as that is a broader audience and I don't get much positive engagement from strangers on Twitter, mostly only people in this community already
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aaronpk
Yeah. There's definitely a few things I've not pushed to twitter for that reason
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bret
cweiske do you read http://www.heise.de ?
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bret
germany has awesome tech journalism
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cweiske
seldomly. I stopped years ago after the signal/noise ratio decreased too much
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bnvk
here's an interface idea for webmention conversations that I just snatched from Android's new interface http://bnvk.me/aB4
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barnabywalters
bnvk: twitter does that also
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bnvk
twitters threading is screwy tho
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bnvk
I can never tell what they do
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bnvk
is it my followers?
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tantek
gRegor`: relmeauth.php is on gh yes
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bnvk
I feel like they by default just hide comments after X number of posts
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barnabywalters
oh is the android thing more sophisticated?
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tantek
gRegor`: but yes the part I'm proud of personally is the "URL" input element which I've scripted into allowing 1) URLs without http (auto-completes to http), 2) @-names (auto-completes to https://twitter.com/@-name - and that's in the index.php etc. - also in the github
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bnvk
barnabywalters: I have no idea- I was just thinking for webmentions / social media noisy conversations in general
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bnvk
would help with filtering out unwanted noise
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tantek
aaronpk, re: « yes "waypoints", or as they are often called in geo land, "features" », sounds like there are use-cases now for publishing a *visible* series of waypoints in HTML, and if we can document those, we can figure out how an "h-waypoint" microformat would work for real world publishing use-cases.
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tantek
aaronpk, also lol at geo land overloading of the word "features", classic.
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aaronpk
oh there's so much overloading of terminology, don't even get me started ;)
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aaronpk
tantek: i've been working on getting my bike rides up on my site: http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/10/231407/
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anNofMe
Congrats to me! Only took me ~2 hours to get up my index page :-/ http://annof.me/
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bnvk
anNofMe: congrats :)
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tantek
anNofMe: awesome!!
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barnabywalters
anNofMe: nice work! looks like the DNS hasn’t updated for me yet so I can’t see your beautiful site :)
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cuibonobo
anNofMe: good job! :)
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aaronpk
thanks!
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anNofMe
barnabywalters: just put it through like 2 minutes ago, so
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anNofMe
…I’m not surprised
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aaronpk
tantek: I also show a png version of the map before the JS loads http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/10/231407/files/full.png
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aaronpk
which is also the "u-photo" property of the post
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tantek
wow that's really well thought out!
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anNofMe
but now I have to get to do actual work - thanks for the help all… hopefully more will come soon
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aaronpk
and when in a list view like this, it only shows the PNG versions so you don't get a crapload of JS maps slowing down your browser http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/bikeride
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tantek
have you thought about POSSEing to a special @aaronpk_rides Twitter? (like adactio segments his POSSEing by post type?)
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aaronpk
I think that'd be a fun idea
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tantek
since you could send the image to Twitter too
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tantek
or @aaronpk_metrics if you want to lump them all together
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aaronpk
right now I just have random things at @pkbot but that's more like your @t_silos account, it's not POSSE
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tantek
this is beautiful
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aaronpk
scroll back a few pages to where the rides are http://aaronparecki.com/metrics?before=2014-07-11-180612
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tantek
whoa how does your sleep posting interface know how to distinguish "Napped" from "Slept"?!? http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/13/163301/
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aaronpk
it's just based on duration :)
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tantek
nice :)
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aaronpk
a cheap trick, but effective
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tantek
have you thought about PESOSing your data out of Nike+ also? E.g. https://twitter.com/t_silos/status/493422665000951808 (try the go.nike permashortlink, extra points for decoding what base 1br6b34 is - looks algorithmic)
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tantek
fascinating that Loqi expands the go-nike-com permashortlink like that
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aaronpk
I don't use Nike+
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aaronpk
yeah I made loqi un-shorten URLs in tweets here
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aaronpk
rather than a whitelist of domains to un-shorten, it just follows all redirects
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tantek
makes sense
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tantek
better chance of archiving actual permalinks here in the log
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aaronpk
except for the issue with youtube urls which I still don't understand
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: your metrics look a bit weird in feed readers: http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2Fmetrics — I wonder if this is a legitimate use of u-logo property for the metric-specific logos, and using u-photo for content photos e.g. sleep graphs in this example
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barnabywalters
e.g. if a post gives a u-logo property it could be shown as a little icon in the top right
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bnvk
somehow, that feed reminds of Ward's Smallest Federated Wiki
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barnabywalters
bnvk: SFW is a big inspiration for me
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aaronpk
barnabywalters: yeah interesting
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aaronpk
ohh that's a bug actually, which will cause a different issue with your reader if i fix it
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aaronpk
oh nvm I see what happened
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aaronpk
I should just take out u-photo from that post type icon. it's leftover from when I copied that code cause that's normally where my face is for notes
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Loqi
I agree
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: if you’re up for changing the icon classnames to u-logo I’ll update shrewdness to show them as post icons
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aaronpk
yeah I can do that... am I using u-logo anywhere else?
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aaronpk
probably not huh
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barnabywalters
it’s not used very much
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tantek
aaronpk - perhaps "u-logo" for those little icons you put on each metrics post?
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barnabywalters
tantek: we were just discussing that :)
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tantek
will be interesting how indie readers decide to show u-logo vs. u-photo
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barnabywalters
even u-photo is published inconsistently enough that I’ve had do to some simple checks to ensure it’s presented sensibly, e.g. if a u-photo property is given, check to see if the same string is found in content, and only show the photo separately if it’s not already in the content
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aaronpk
yeah making readers is hard... so many edge cases to deal with.
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tantek
barnabywalters: why not still show u-photo in "summary" / list views?
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tantek
(where presumably the summary / list item view is only text)
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barnabywalters
tantek: well if only the summary is shown, and it doesn’t contain the photo, then yes it would make perfect sense to show the image separately
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aaronpk
ooh nice barnabywalters!
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: looking good!
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: thanks
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barnabywalters
fights the urge to take advantage of this to add logos to ALL THE POSTS
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aaronpk
i like that idea a lot
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aaronpk
especially cause I already have logos for all my posts
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tantek
barnabywalters: looks good!
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tantek
one minor presentational tweak I'd suggest
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tantek
put the logo inline right before the text
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aaronpk
tantek: how does that work with multiline posts then? I've had a hard time with icons inline
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aaronpk
also what if there is no text
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tantek
there should always be some text alternate for the icon
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tantek
and in the case of your metrics posts, having the icon *right before* the text makes even more sense
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aaronpk
wait i'm confused
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aaronpk
what text are you talking about?
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tantek
digs up the emoji page so he can demostrate
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barnabywalters
tantek: if you’re referring to the content text of the post, in my experience there’s really too much variation in post bodies for it to always look good
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barnabywalters
if the logo was put inline
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aaronpk
agreed, i've had the same experience
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barnabywalters
also I don’t want to mess with people’s post content except for doign security/performance tweaks
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@panjidrama
Vous ai-je déjá parlé de indiewebcamp ? Quoi qu’il en soit, une bonne introduction ici : https://medium.com/@veganstraightedge/no-more-sharecropping-9d0e36524dbf
(twitter.com/_/status/493850019221741568)
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tantek
🌜Slept from 12:41am to 6:50am (5 hrs 53 min) ...
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barnabywalters
if authors want the logo to be displayed inline in the content, they can already — just put it in the content
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barnabywalters
otherwise, I’ll put it somewhere I know it has a good chance of looking good
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tantek
🚲 Evening Ride
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tantek
🚙 Drove 3.2 miles in 25 minutes
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aaronpk
photos with no text
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tantek
💪 Did 13pushups
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aaronpk
(side note, the php parser seems to be ignoring the space between by two <data> tags there)
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barnabywalters
there are enough edge cases in feed parsing already, I don’t want to introduce more :)
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tantek
👣 Weighed 153.3lbs (69.6kg) 17.8% body fat
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tantek
ok I think that's the full set :)
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aaronpk
are you putting emoji in irc? I don't see them in my iTerm window :)
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tantek
see how the icon works both as a quick mnemonic for what the post is about ?
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KartikPrabhu
I don't see any either :P
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aaronpk
tantek: how wuld you handle a photo with no text in that case? There's no good spot to put a little camera icon then.
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tantek
you should be able to see those emojis in FF
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aaronpk
and safari
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aaronpk
but not chrome
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: nope. not in FF on Ubuntu
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barnabywalters
I see them fine in Colloquy
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tantek
barnabywalters: ok then you get what I mean in terms of where to put the icon relative to the text
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barnabywalters
tantek: yep, above acknowledgement and counter-argument still apply :)
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aaronpk
and I still agree with barnabywalters' counter-arguments
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barnabywalters
it looks good and is effective. it would be a good choice for authors to publish that sort of content
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tantek
I wouldn't bother with putting a u-logo on a photo post - the photo post is already sufficiently iconic!
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tantek
aaronpk, also - the emojis I gave you above would be good for POSSEing different kinds of metrics posts to @aaronpk_metrics
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aaronpk
if barnaby is showing the post type icon next to the date like he is now then I would totally publish a u-logo for my photos
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cuibonobo
i actually like where the reader puts the icon -- it keeps the 'meta' separate from the 'content'
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aaronpk
ah yeah adding those emoji to the twitter posse version would be fun
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tantek
I wouldn't publish a photo icon because it doesn't add any meaning - it's already obvious it's a photo, and a photo icon just adds noise to the UX
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tantek
cuibonobo: if it's visible, it's not meta, it *is* content
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barnabywalters
yeah, same with notes and article posts — adding icons would be superfluous
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tantek
actual meta is stuff that's truly invisible (in nearly all cases) like EXIF data on those images
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tantek
barnabywalters: exactly
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tantek
it would detract from the experience
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aaronpk
I have icons for articles, presentations and events here http://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb
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cuibonobo
tantek: meta is information *about* my content rather than the content itself. doesn't matter if it's visible or not
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tantek
cuibonobo: problem with that definition, depending on "about", is that most content is "about" something, which makes most content "meta" which then makes the definition not very useful
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tantek
you get lost in a semantic trap where nearly everything becomes meta
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tantek
same problem with the annotations crowd, where they start thinking everything is an annotation
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tantek
and then meta and annotation become synonyms to them
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tantek
which makes them both less useful as terms (given such definitions)
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cuibonobo
tantek: lol. if i say, "i disagree" <-- it's "about" your statement, but still what *i* want to say. whereas the timestamp, while still visible, is "meta"
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aaronpk
really? seems pretty straightforward to me. the content is the stuff that I surround with my e-content tag. everything else is meta, like the author, date, etc
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tantek
aaronpk - rather than calling them meta (and making any such judgment) we just call them properties
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aaronpk
calling it meta is passing judgment on the data?
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tantek
yes - it's saying it's not content
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tantek
from a user perspective
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tantek
"meta" is often used to characterize information which the user doesn't care to save, doesn't care if it's lost etc.
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aaronpk
I've never heard it characterized that way before...
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tantek
so I prefer a user-centric definition - if it's visible and the user cares about it, it's content from their perspective, not meta
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tantek
regardless of any "aboutness"
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tantek
(which was always a dubious / useless distinction anyway)
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tantek
barnabywalters: I notice when I view selection source on the Reply button in your reader view that it says: <div class="item-actions"><button class="reply-button">Reply</button></div> - looks like a good place to put a reply webaction!
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indie-visitor
howdy. I want to come along to the IndieWeb2014 2 day meet up in Brighton after dConstruct, but not sure how to categorise myself :) I'm a developer for others, keen web standards advocate, and run an event to help others learn about UX (uxoxford.com) however hardly ever blog, and sadly most of my code for work isn't open (although I want to start contributing). Am I a creator/blogger/or apprentice? thanks :) Al
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barnabywalters
tantek: that might be a good temporary measure, or if the logged in user hasn’t granted have micropub access
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cuibonobo
tantek: the most useful metric may be, "can the user understand this post if i remove this information"
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barnabywalters
tantek: if the user has granted micropub access, for many post types I can offer a better UX by writing an integrated UI
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tantek
why temporary? why not include <action do="reply" with="permalinkURL"> ?
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aaronpk
barnabywalters: how do I log in?
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: currently, you don’t :)
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barnabywalters
tantek: for reason given above
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barnabywalters
greetings indie-visitor!
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tantek
cuibonobo: that seems like a harsh distinction, as a user can understand many posts even if you strip all formatting, and photos, and yet, they care that those are lost
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indie-visitor
Hello! came here via the IndieWeb website and wasn't sure how to log in as me
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barnabywalters
indie-visitor: if you have a personal site which you can add rel-me markup to (allowing you to log into the wiki) then you’re a creator
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tantek
and photos in a post are typically considered part of the content, even though the user may still understand the post if they're removed
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tantek
barnabywalters: I think indie-visitor means here in IRC
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tantek
indie-visitor: type /nick yournamehere
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alpower
ah thanks
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tantek
welcome alpower !
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cuibonobo
tantek: as i'm sure they would care if you removed the logos from aaronpk's feed, but that's not the information he's trying to convey
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alpower
yep - I wasn't sure how to categorise myself for indieweb, but barnabywalters has kindly helped me out - need to go off and add rel tags to alpower.com now :)
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tantek
cuibonobo: most things can be relegated to short plain text and retain meaning, doesn't mean that the other stuff is not content
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tantek
even the icons provide a quick scannable summary of the post
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tantek
nice site alpower !
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barnabywalters
off to climb, goodnight all
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Loqi
ciao
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cuibonobo
tantek: look at how you make the date tiny in your own feed. you're demoting its importance because the date is not the thing you're actually trying to say.
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cuibonobo
i'm not saying the date *isn't* useful.
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cuibonobo
but it's not what you're trying to convey
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tantek
cuibonobo: just because there's information hierarchy and some things are more or less important does not mean they are not content.
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tantek
nor does it mean I'm not trying to convey them
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tantek
content is full of such progressive disclosure
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tantek
welcome indie-visitor ! set your name by typing /nick yournamehere
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indie-visitor
thanks - this is alpower shifting to my laptop :)
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indie-visitor
not sure I can have the same nick
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tantek
cuibonobo: datetime for example is often *crucial* to the meaning of an utterance. as is other what me be considered "contextual" information like location, or mood (smiley graphics)
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tantek
alpower-mobile: there you go. have also seen -laptop -pod etc.
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cuibonobo
tantek: sure! but that's the context of what i'm saying. not what i'm saying.
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tantek
my point is the context often adds so much to the meaning that it becomes the meaning, or a large portion of it
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tantek
so attempting to separate it is typically futile
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tantek
or worse, lossy
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tantek
from a content perspective. and lossy content treatment is bad.
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bear
for people consuming something context+data *is* the meaning
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tantek
precisely bear
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cuibonobo
so what is meta?
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bear
so we need to make sure data is always present and let the viewing layer decide how to order or prioritize the data - by querying the meta-data
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tantek
cuibonobo: see above, invisible.
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tantek
whether the publisher presents it visibly or not is the only real way to judge if the information matters to the message or not
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tantek
if it's visibly presented, then the publisher intends for it to be a meaningful part of the content / expression
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tantek
if it's not visible presented, then the publisher thinks it is not relevant to the message
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tantek
hence EXIF example which typically is not visible presented
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tantek
but the overly simplistic "meta = about" fails the user-centric test of definitions and discussion and perspective
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tantek
aaronpk - have you considered providing a text fallback representation of your bicycling path waypoints for the images of your paths? E.g. the way we have text fallback for the dialog in indie comics: http://indiewebcamp.com/comics for the images of the comics
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aaronpk
image fallback is all i've done so far
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aaronpk
I could make a text version of it that said something like "biked from x to y"
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cuibonobo
tantek: meta = invisible?? that is totally made-up. c'mon now.
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alpower-mobile
I guess 'meta' can be machine readable but invisible to a person consuming a webpage say, but still meaningful
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KartikPrabhu
cuibonobo: I understand what you mean in terms of 'heirarchy'
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tantek
cuibonobo: nope, not totally made up, but rather, in practice from <html> <meta>
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tantek
but yes, the concept of "meta" is not particularly useful in practice
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tantek
aaronpk - such a fall back "biked from x to y" would lose a lot of information
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bear
don't focus on the small nits or details of what is meta or not - anything can be meta at many levels
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tantek
just as a comic image summary that was just one sentence (and no dialog) would be very lossy
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bear
meta is just additional data to help decide what is required for a view - one part of the data could be meta to another but all of it is data to something
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tantek
bear - that's the problem. anything can be meta / about / an annotation and therefore the meta itself is meaningless
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tantek
there is no meta, it's just all data
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bear
thinks tantek and him are in loud agreement ;)
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aaronpk
tantek: what did you have in mind as a text version of the route?
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bear
yes - meta is a marker to help dev types relegate some data
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tantek
aaronpk - similar to how Google maps directions tells you what to do, your route can say what you *have* done
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tantek
e.g. when gmaps directions says to walk from x to y for z meters, then take bus nn from stop AA to stop BB, then walk from c to d for e meters
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aaronpk
that would be hilarious
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tantek
you just use past tense versions of the verbs
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aaronpk
and really hard
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tantek
really? seems like you could automate from your GeoJSON
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aaronpk
reverse-geocoding to reasonable named things is hard
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tantek
gmaps directions sometimes even gives time estimates for each step
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tantek
where you could provide time *measurements* for each step
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tantek
on n.m. the reverse-geocoding
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tantek
in "walk from x to y for z meters" let x and y be lat/long(/altitude)
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aaronpk
ha that doesn't sound very human-readable
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cuibonobo
aaronpk: i was just gonna say that
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tantek
there is precedent for publishing of raw lat long
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tantek
so people *are* doing it
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tantek
it's a start - it's not *the most* human readable. but it is a start.
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aaronpk
the most precise human-readable locations are intersections
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tantek
you could add reverse geo-coding later, or even decide to annotate later with venus
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bear
raises tongue-in-cheek flag
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tantek
s/venus/venues
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: you could add reverse geo-coding later, or even decide to annotate later with venues
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bear
do it as ascii art directions
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aaronpk
ascii art version of the map? lol
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tantek
I think I've played that game
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bear
goes back to lurking and actually helping fix things
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tantek
is there an maptiles server that serves ASCII tiles?
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tantek
would be really fast to render!
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aaronpk
I know a couple people who were using ascii tiles to embed data in map tiles
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tantek
suggests bright lime green on black background as default, then you could pitch it as the "matrix code" view
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tantek
somewhere someone at Google has to have made a green terminal screen version of google maps using all those VT100 control characters etc. to do the display
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bear
or as a series of nethack style hex map items
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tantek
bear see above about "I've played that game" - hack/nethack is what I was referring to ;)
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aaronpk
https://github.com/duncankl/vector-tile-ascii "Because it should be possible to download and view a single tile without configuring a massive Mapnik-based rendering infrastructure."
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cuibonobo
that is wonderful
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tantek
that looks like LEGO
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tantek
aaronpk - this is more like what I'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD0eNN4F6P4
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aaronpk
has watched a version of the matrix that looked like that
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benwerd
idly wonders if there's an Ultima tileset somewhere
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bear
rot.js is very populare for that as it's used by all of the rogue game clone folks
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bear
ughs at all of the typos his brain is generating today
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tantek
"map" and "terminal" are too overloaded for search to be useful for this :/
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KartikPrabhu
does anyone else have trouble uploading photos to Twiter?
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tantek
aaronpk - that's a great start!
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tantek
I assume that's going from raster image through a raster->ASCII converter?
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tantek
wonders how good a map data to ASCII renderer could do
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aaronpk
it's a png->ascii converter from this image http://aaron.pk/G2L
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aaronpk
the vector tile one I linked would do a better job
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bear
KartikPrabhu - are you using the new 2-step photo upload process that twitter-dev blogged about this spring? https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/multiple-media-extended-entities
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KartikPrabhu
bear: ehh no... just "add photo" that comes in while composing a Tweet
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KartikPrabhu
the spinner goes on forever and then ultimately does nothing
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bear
ohhh - sorry, I have zero experience with the twitter web UI
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@funnymonkey
@audreywatters All the more reason why Reclaim Your Domaim/Indieweb is necessary.
(twitter.com/_/status/493866971621240832)
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aaronpk
looks like it'd be relatively easy to customize the characters and colors used in that ascii tile renderer https://github.com/duncankl/vector-tile-ascii/blob/master/index.js#L11
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tantek
aaronpk - yeah I was thinking more like using actual ASCII lines to draw the vectors like streets and other features _/”¾\_
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tantek
rather than just ASCII pixelation (not that interesting)
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tantek
exactly!
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KevinMarks_
that would work for a lot of US cities, not so much for the uk
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KevinMarks_
reads logs
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aaronpk
there's an awful lot of curvy roads in pdx too, and at weird angles with all the bridges
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KevinMarks_
the metadata/data distinction got very political recently, with govts claiming metadata was not PII
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bear
yea, for old world streets we would have to put up with diagonal tiles not having linked lines
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bear
what is PII
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KevinMarks_
if you want a concrete refutation, look at Yo! - there is not data so the only thing that conveys information is from who and time
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KevinMarks_
Personally Identifiable Information
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bear
of course a govt would not want meta data declared as PII - then they are allowed to store and search it without a warrent
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aaronpk
darn, that didn't work as well as expected. I tried running my GPS logs through the arcgis directions API to generate a list of text instructions for the route. but it didn't work super well.
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aaronpk
too much GPS noise causing weird detours, and also it doesn't know i'm on a bike.
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KevinMarks_
do you autodetect cycling, or do you manually hit stop/start buttons?
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aaronpk
so far it's all explicit tracking via runkeeper
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bear
can you map your geo data as waypoints - to filter them down to smaller chunks - and then run that thru the api?
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aaronpk
and strava (but i'm switching to runkeeper)
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aaronpk
bear: that's exactly what I did :)
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KevinMarks_
google attempts to detect cycling, but it seems to undercount a lot
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aaronpk
bear: view source on http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/10/081442/ and search for LineString
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KevinMarks_
also the google data doesn't just have gps noise, it has mad teleports due to wifi geolocation being wrong
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aaronpk
that's the simplified line that describes the path, generated from the raw gps logs using the ramer douglas peucker algorithm
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bear
right - so I would try to find out what street each of those gps points are and then throw away any that are the same for it's neighbors
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bear
until you are left with only changes in streets
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aaronpk
there's still the gps noise problem tho
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aaronpk
zoom in on the part of that route before the red dot
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bear
which one is the red dot
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aaronpk
marker, not dot, sorry
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bear
I see two markers - which one is red
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bear
<-- colour blind
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aaronpk
oh wow sorry...
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aaronpk
top left
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bear
oh - I see where it goes into the buildings
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aaronpk
so i'm biking up Oak St, but there's a point on 2nd ave and then again near 5th
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KevinMarks_
I get that with google's spoken directions on the bike. It will occasioanlly snap onto the cross street (like yours did at sw 2nd) and tell me to turn left onto the street I'm on
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aaronpk
KevinMarks_: that's good to know that even the pros have this problem :)
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KevinMarks_
there is a lot of code going on to smooth gps to streets
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KevinMarks_
the best way to see this is to get google maps to give you driving directions, then get on a train
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bear
I would imagine that those are outliers if you go with a filter and only change streets if the outliers remain constant for more than n points
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KevinMarks_
it will snap to every road near the railway line in turn, making up new ways to drive away from it
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bear
I can see that happening if they are trying to filter for routes that fit the vehicle type
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bear
bike/walk vs car vs train
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KevinMarks_
right, but even if you ask it for transit directions it doesn't understand the concept of being on a train or bus
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bear
ouch
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KevinMarks_
it'll tell you to walk to the next or previous station and get another train
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aaronpk
oh yeah it always assumes you need to walk to the station first
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KevinMarks_
which messed me up in portland when I got on a bus going the wrong way
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aaronpk
I think I can use this for indieauth
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aaronpk
so anyway, text maps are hard
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aaronpk
and text routes
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aaronpk
I could do a version like "Walked 200 feet from 45.506491,-122.654948 to 45.506563,-122.658619 in 30 seconds" for each pair of points in that route
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KevinMarks_
"crossed the street like a madman and biked through 2 people's gardens before crossing back again"
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aaronpk
I could send the route to Jarvis and have them transcribe it as text https://jarv.co/
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aaronpk
since their plans include unlimited <15-minute tasks
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tantek
aaronpk that "Walked 200 feet from…" sounds like a good start
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tantek
and I think you can use similar embedded markup that we used for /comics
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KevinMarks_
you could send the points to google maps and ask it to make directions for each leg
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aaronpk
I guess I just don't see the benefit of the text version unless it's actually human-readable
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KevinMarks_
assuming you can find the legs
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Loqi
erinjo: tantek left you a message 3 days ago: if you're interested in giving a talk about IndieWeb sometime 2014-10-20..24, in particular how you've built or setup your own indieweb site, check this out and make a proposal! http://html5devconf.com/cfs-oct2014.html - feel free to mention that Tantek recommended you make a proposal (I was on their speaker board for a while) - and that offer is open to
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aaronpk
KevinMarks_: that's basically what I just tried, the problem is generating the list of legs that isn't full of errors
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tantek
aaronpk - there is precedent for use of lat long in human visible content
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tantek
"GPS: 46°13'59'' N
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tantek
6°3'20'' E"
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tantek
and note that that's in a section with heading "Practical information" :)
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tantek
so clearly lat long coordinates in text are human readable to at least *some* humans, and perceived to be human readable to even more, sufficiently so to publish them like that.
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KartikPrabhu
ha! I wonder who reads GPS coordinates and thinks "I know where that is"
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aaronpk
raises his hand sheepishly
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: ok you've also been logging your location every 15 mins or so
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aaronpk
every second
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KartikPrabhu
oh well... no wonder you know how to read and decipher GPS
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KartikPrabhu
for me, GPS coordinates can be read, but they don't mean anything
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KevinMarks_
so, nuclear physicists and aaronpk are our test users
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KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks_ even nuclear physicists can't decipher them without an instrument
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KevinMarks_
grid references are a time-honoured way, geopoints are a generalisation
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KartikPrabhu
most people I know can't follow directions like "turn East"
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KevinMarks_
I hate it when google maps says that to me when I'm on my bike
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KartikPrabhu
they don't know where "East" is in their city
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KartikPrabhu
see. Absolute directions are hard and not useful to most people
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benwerd
Does anyone have any advice on buying UC certs? Mostly I'm wondering about providers
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KevinMarks_
my reaction is "you have a compass in, I don't
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aaronpk
what is a UC cert?
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benwerd
multi-domain
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benwerd
SSL for lots of domains
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KevinMarks_
my watch has a compass in, but it complains I'm too near metal when I try it
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KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks_ : lol
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aaronpk
benwerd: oh hm, I always just go to namecheap.com and get the cheapest one
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tommorris
KevinMarks said: "google data doesn't just have gps noise, it has mad teleports due to wifi geolocation being wrong" - wifi geolocation nonsense is why I carry a dedicated GPS, and GPS noise is why OSM requires that humans look at GPS tracks and apply their brain to the result. ;-)
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aaronpk
looks like $30/yr for multi-domain up to 100 which seems totally reasonable
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tommorris
as for human-readable lat-longs - I'd like to note that producing awesome reverse geocoding is a hard problem, especially if you don't have a Google sized budget.
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KartikPrabhu
anyone know how does Twitter decide whether to send a new follower notification or not?
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aaronpk
tommorris: the best reverse geocoder I used was SimpleGeo when I specifically asked them to make a reverse geocoder that returned intersection names
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aaronpk
they already had the OSM infrastructure and pipeline set up, so they built a new table containing each intersection as a point from the raw OSM streets, then could find the nearest intersection using that table
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bret
is there a list of specs/tech that do things like webactions/webintents?
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bret
or timeline i should say
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tommorris
aaronpk: that works great... but not in London. ;-)
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KevinMarks_
that's a good idea for US cities
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tommorris
yeah, it'd be awesome for NYC.
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KevinMarks_
foursquare's is good if you are going to a business
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tommorris
that's part of the problem is the way you end up producing a good reverse geocoder is you need to tweak it for each different country
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aaronpk
I wonder if it'd be worth me setting up my own mini version that works only for portland
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aaronpk
cause at least it would work in portland, and wouldn't need to be updated very often
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bret
ya ya
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KartikPrabhu
anyone know a good epub reader for desktops (linux) ?
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tantek
tommoris re: having to tweak per country - wasn't OSM supposed to solve that?
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bret
pdxgeolookupthingy++
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Loqi
pdxgeolookupthingy has 1 karma
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tantek
bret - that "is there a list of specs/tech that do things like " is a pretty broadly ambiguous question, care to refine it?
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KevinMarks_
google maps is actually trying to build this by putting points on the map related to places you've been
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tantek
like, what's the use-case you're trying to address?
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KevinMarks_
I always get a "tantek" point in SF
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aaronpk
hm OSM export feature didn't work
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tommorris
tantek: well, kinda. OSM is just a big database. the main OSM reverse geocoder - Nominatim - has some issues. I should probably work out how to hack on Nominatim
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tommorris
aaronpk: XAPI. ;)
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aaronpk
I don't know what that means
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KevinMarks_
so if you make foursquare locations for "that abandoned building that looks like it’s owned by Branch-Davidians"
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tommorris
aaronpk: it's the way to get large-scale XML output from OSM
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KevinMarks_
you could reverse geocode using their API
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aaronpk
aw but they have a nice Export button on top
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tantek
ooh "large scale XML output". /me steps back slowly.
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tommorris
KevinMarks_: problem there is the copyright. OSM is freely licensed, 4sq isn't
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aaronpk
tantek: you would probably run away in terror if you know what goes on under the hood with OSM
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KevinMarks_
is that like the 256M geojson file that google takeout helpfully gave me?
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tantek
tommorris: you could argue that if you created the venue, you're the author, and did not give up copyright
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tommorris
tantek: and 4sq's lawyers would point to the T&Cs that nobody but them have read and which they can probably modify at will
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tommorris
the copyright lawyers for silos tend to be quite good.
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tantek
a-ha - another TOS data-entrapment scenario!
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tantek
s/TOS/silo TOS
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: a-ha - another silo TOS data-entrapment scenario!
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tantek
tommorris: I doubt they'd care if you just copied the venues you created
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KevinMarks_
a lot of people drive using places they have lived or worked as waypoints
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aaronpk
oh cool I got the export of portland
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tantek
and then you can point out that their data was IP-dirty to begin with since they seeded it with a Dodgeball venue database dump from Google without permission. OOOPS.
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KevinMarks_
I bet you could compile nicknames that people used for places and build a Bloggess-directions app
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tommorris
so, the main issue that I've found difficult with reverse geocoding is neighbourhood/area naming. things like The City, Soho or Fitzrovia (London), Chelsea or West Village or Upper East Side (NYC), or Castro or Mission (SFO) or downtown or financial or whatever.
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KevinMarks_
"Left at that spooky bar that looks like it’s out of Scooby-Doo, left at the place we saw that wild boar that turned out to be a dog, right at the corner where I threw up that one time. Right?"
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KevinMarks_
flickr's using tags to derive those was interesting
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tommorris
the casual, fuzzy psychogeography of cities is both fascinating and very, very difficult to place
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KevinMarks_
Swarm keeps telling me I'm in alleged neighbourhoods in San Jose that I don't recogize
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tommorris
London example: I checked into a bar just off the Strand. Nominatim told me I was in Chinatown because that's the nearest named area.
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tommorris
Swarm/4sq make up some crazy stuff. there's a road near Victoria Street called Warwick Way. It refers to the area around it as "Warwick". which is very odd, because... Warwick is a place in Warwickshire, not London. ;-)
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tommorris
it'd be like if you checked into somewhere in Oxford Street and it told you that you were in Oxford.
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tommorris
Google Maps is interesting: it reckons "Carnaby" (as in Carnaby Street) is an area of London, but Soho isn't.
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gRegor`
KevinMarks_: I literally read that part of Let's Pretend this Never Happened last night. Eerie.
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KevinMarks_
london is pretty much 2000 years of bloggess directions
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KevinMarks_
"fleet street"
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KevinMarks_
which meant "the bit of the strand with newspaper offfices on"
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KevinMarks_
but got its name from a river that used to be there before they put it in a pipe
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tommorris
and Fleet Street pretty much doesn't have any major newspapers there anymore since Murdoch moved the Sun/NotW to Wapping, and Associated Newspapers moved to Kensington...
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KevinMarks_
right, but the buildings remain, some of them
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tommorris
that said, there is a CofE church there that is the church for printers. :)
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KevinMarks_
which is like down here where they name places after what they cut down to build it
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KevinMarks_
Cherry Orchard Mall
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KevinMarks_
My Irish uncle said there were 2 kinds of people who gave directions, one that was using churches, one that was using pubs as landmarks
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tommorris
I went to a Catholic theological college - I'm pretty sure there's an intersection between those two classes.
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tommorris
One does not necessitate abstinence from t'other.
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bear
i was so glad to stop asking people for directions when mapquest came around - because I could then get answers that did contain colour references … "go up the street until you get to the red house and turn left"
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /Google (+114) "/* Exporting From Google */ add takeout"
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /Google (+0) "/* Exporting From Google */ typo"
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tantek.com
edited /microsyntax (+401) "/* Brainstorming */ add emoji options for metrics, especially for POSSEing to Twitter"
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tantek.com
created /metrics (+22) "for now, though sleep and weighing is not really exercise"
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aaronpk
sleep could be considered an exercise ;)
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aaronpk
for your brain
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tantek
aaronpk - feel free to rename / reorganize all of that "exericise" / "metrics" pages / stuff
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tantek
since you've obviously thought a lot about it, and implemented a LOT more than anyone else
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tantek
the latter part being the real proof in the pudding
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KevinMarks_
emoji as tags is interesting
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KevinMarks_
yelp has search by emoji
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tantek
it does? no other search engine supports emoji AFAIK
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tantek
e.g. google shows zero results
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ShaneHudson
Eww I hate emoji, especially when used on github... seems so tacky!
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tantek
correction: the Wikipedia open search plugin *does* support "search" by emoji
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tantek
because people have created emoji-redirect pages for all emoji AFAIK
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aaronpk
what is ♥︎?
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tantek
what is ♥︎?
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tantek
I really like the hyperlinks in the table in this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscellaneous_Symbols_And_Pictographs
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KevinMarks_
the hourly ones could be handy too
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aaronpk
let's see if this ends up being a terrible idea
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aaronpk
what is ♥︎
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KevinMarks_
the latest swiftkey has an option to suggest emoji
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KevinMarks
So I type bike and 🚲 is a choice
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KevinMarks
What is 🌟?
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tantek.com
created /💬 (+21) "r"
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KevinMarks_
weird, in chrome the emoji show in the address bar, but not in the body
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aaronpk
whoa i just noticed that too
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johncash
theres a chrome emoji extension
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KevinMarks_
they work on chrome android
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KevinMarks_
could you use an emoji as a favicon? that seems a compact way to send it
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tantek
what is ♥︎?
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gregorlove.com
created /love (+31) "Redirected page to [[baby-dont-hurt-me]]"
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tantek.com
created /♥ (+31) "r"
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gRegor`
what is love?
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gRegor`
:D
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aaronpk
i can't wait for someone to accidentally stumble across that
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KartikPrabhu
gregornobacktick++
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Loqi
gregornobacktick has 7 karma
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bnvk
what is going on in here?
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bnvk
Haddaway links
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bnvk
madness
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johncash
haddaway?
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gRegor`
s/madness/awesomeness/
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gRegor`
Started when I saw aaronpk test Loqi with "what is ♥︎"
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gRegor`
Couldn't resist. :)
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gRegor`
Lulz
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gRegor`
Didn't realize the regex looked anywhere in the sentence.
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tantek.com
created /💪 (+22) "r"
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bnvk
gRegor ;)
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tantek.com
created /♺ (+20) "r"
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tantek.com
created /↩ (+19) "r"
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tantek.com
created /🐓 (+21) "r"
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tantek
what is 🐓?
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Loqi
chicken is a type of post supported by idno http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%90%93
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tantek
now we're talking
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tantek
you might say that's a nested joke. ;)
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KartikPrabhu
has anyone looked into the accessibility of emoji e.g. screen readers?
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tantek
what is a screen reader?
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KartikPrabhu
i guess not then :P
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gRegor`
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 55 karma
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tantek.com
created /😴 (+19) "r"
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bnvk
what is a tantek?
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Loqi
Tantek Çelik is the co-founder of IndieWebCamp and works on open web standards at Mozilla http://indiewebcamp.com/Tantek
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cuibonobo
"chicken is a type of post supported by idno"?
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cuibonobo
i love chickens
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cuibonobo
tell me more
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tantek.com
created /sleep (+459) "stub with indieweb example"
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cuibonobo
KartikPrabhu: *_* oh man
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gRegor`
Pro-tip: trim out some of the links when quoting chat logs.
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KartikPrabhu
gregor`: do you post embeded HTML in notes?
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gRegor`
Shh.
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gRegor`
whispers "yes"
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tantek
cuibonobo: most recently: http://werd.io/2014/untitled-10
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KartikPrabhu
whispers back "np"
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tantek.com
created /🔒 (+22) "r"
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tantek.com
created /🌉 (+20) "r"
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tantek
welcome back snarfed - good timing!
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snarfed
tantek: yeah?
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snarfed
aaronpk, just fyi, in case you're still looking into that 15m cron job that HEADs brid.gy/log … it also HEADs brid.gy/twitter/SimonCoopey on the same schedule
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tantek
snarfed, what is 🌉?
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Loqi
Bridgy is an open source project and proxy that implements backfeed as a service http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%8C%89
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snarfed
no way. there's an emoji called bridgy?!?!?
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snarfed
aaronpk: the only other requests i get from it are for caseorganic's bridgy source urls, so i'm guessing it hosts her p3k instance
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tantek
snarfed if you think that's good, try asking what love is
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snarfed
heh, i see that in the logs, nice
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tantek
darn, hard to sneak things on people when they read the logs. ;)
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snarfed
oh i see, wiki redirect, not necessarily the title of the emoji
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tantek.com
created /🎦 (+19) "r"
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tantek.com
created /🆔 (+22) "r"
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tantek.com
created /👍 (+18) "r"
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tantek
benwerd this one is for you: what is 🐓?
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Loqi
chicken is a type of post supported by idno http://indiewebcamp.com/%F0%9F%90%93
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johncash
wtf?
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GWG
Hello
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johncash
how do you post a chicken
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GWG
Very carefully?
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gRegor`
Use ChickenScript Object Notation.
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benwerd
I'm slightly worried that I'm the only person responsible for items referenced under "lulz"
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gregorlove.com
created /OkCupid (+1004) "stub / We Experiment on Human Beings! criticism"
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gregorlove.com
created /okcupid (+21) "Redirected page to [[OkCupid]]"
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tantek
oh hey - was trying out DuckDuckDuckGo (search engine) and just noticed this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndieWeb
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gregorlove.com
edited /OkCupid (-1) "/* "We Experiment on Human Beings!" */ grammarz"
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gRegor`
Cool, tantek! Quite new and just the one person editing so far. Interesting.
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gRegor`
Is User:RayneVanDunem known to anyone in the community?
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tantek
not AFAIK
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gRegor`
Forgot my wikipedia password again.
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tantek.com
created /🌙 (+19) "r"
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tantek.com
created /🌟 (+22) "r"
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KartikPrabhu
ok, how is the "experiments" run by OKC or FB different from user testing that websites do anyway?
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tantek.com
created /🐔 (+21) "r"
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KartikPrabhu
Is the claim that websites can not/should not selectively alter website features such as say typography and test if it increases user-retention (or any such buzzword metric) ?
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tantek.com
created /🍎 (+19) "r"
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: I think in the FB case it was specifically experimenting with sentiment analysis.
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tantek
of content - not design
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KartikPrabhu
I would think websites which take analytics data do that all the time
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KartikPrabhu
"5 new ways to improve your life" or some such title has to come from strange analytics type data
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tantek.com
created /🐥 (+21) "r"
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tantek.com
created /📞 (+19) "r"
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gRegor`
change in typography/design != changing the data presented to people
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tantek.com
created /📱 (+20) "r"
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gRegor`
Tantek is on an emoji roll