#indiewebcamp 2014-07-31

2014-07-31 UTC
willnorris joined the channel
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willnorris
nice, my new go webmention library and CLI works :)
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KartikPrabhu
good job willnorris
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bret
willnorris++
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Loqi
willnorris has 4 karma
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snarfed
so npdoty's http://bcc.npdoty.name/ is a fascinating idea
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snarfed
if npdoty is at hwc tonight, someone pls ask him to elaborate on it and take notes!
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npdoty
wait, what am I supposed to elaborate on?
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snarfed
um…anything! :P
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snarfed
fair question. i guess the use case is pretty self explanatory
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snarfed
i'd be curious to hear about any email bridge plumbing underneath
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snarfed
…or do you post to it, linkify, etc mostly manually?
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npdoty
oh, I see, yes.
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npdoty
(I just wasn't sure I understood what you were asking)
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snarfed
npdoty: btw, re your motivation for it - posting rsvps etc but hiding them from your main page and feed - many of us just do that as part of our main web site's plumbing
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npdoty
the sad part of the story is that it's mostly manual / or just a blog engine running on AppEngine
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snarfed
manual++
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Loqi
manual has 2 karma
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snarfed
i say do things manually until they get annoying enough to automate
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snarfed
(also appengine++)
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snarfed
appengine++ (for loqi)
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Loqi
appengine has 1 karma
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npdoty
but I've always had the idea (which would never be hard to add if I were writing enough) that it would just create posts when I bcc'ed a certain email address
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snarfed
for example, i reply/like/rsvp on my main site - https://snarfed.org/responses - but never include them in the front page feed
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npdoty
and until I work out some kinks, I'm actually sending the webmentions via a command line tool
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npdoty
snarfed, and do you include them in an RSS feed?
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snarfed
npdoty: re bcc'ing an email address, hell yeah! very doable on app engine, it can handle incoming email. https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/python/mail/receivingmail
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snarfed
npdoty: nope, not in any feed
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npdoty
snarfed: yeah, that GAE already had the feature was part of what me inspired me to get started with a GAE blog system
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npdoty
... but then I just didn't get around to setting up that hook :)
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snarfed
i know the feeling
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snarfed
(feel free to ask me app engine q's in the future, btw, if you ever have any)
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willnorris
(snarfed knows just a thing or two about app engine :) )
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snarfed
willnorris: but at this point it really may only be two, and even those are eroding :P
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npdoty
I'm beginning to wonder if it wasn't a mistake to keep my blog on AppEngine and work off this blogging code from Nick Johnson (bloggart)
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tantek.com
edited /🎪 (+6) "tent should link to camps"
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tantek.com
edited /⛺ (+9) "setup tent should link to camps"
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tantek
!tell aaronpk Loqi has left the channel
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tantek
kicking off here in SF
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tantek
benwerd: we did onboarding for Known recently
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tantek
benwerd: you used to start with a blank install
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tantek
… now you have a four stage setup
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tantek
… for creating an account, and setting up syndication services
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @JonPincus: how does a community site change when you want to engage in private conversations?
(twitter.com/_/status/494657947679866880)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @JonPincus: you can now log onto our site Tapestries using indieauth, and can use a public profile to log into indieauth sites
(twitter.com/_/status/494658228920143873)
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tantek
jonpincus: is working on some new social networking software for himself and friends
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @JonPincus: there is a problem of how you block or mute bad actors in conversations
(twitter.com/_/status/494658307781824514)
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tantek
… sick of facebook and looking at business opportunities
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tantek
… really thinking about how does a community site related to other sites
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tantek
… and when you want to engage in private conversations, things get interesting
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tantek
… was at IndieWebCamp 2014
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tantek
… since then implemented IndieAuth, to login to your Tapestries
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tantek
… is interested in situations where you have private discussions
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tantek
… dealing with bad actors
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tantek
… how do you mute people
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tantek
… how do you block people
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jonpincus
is the kill file a good starting point?
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: I added a mute page to the wiki, but we don't have implementations yet
(twitter.com/_/status/494658972310577153)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: I've been adding to the wiki what all the features you would need to build a twitter for yourself
(twitter.com/_/status/494659086332739584)
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npdoty
*knock knock* Mozilla
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jonpincus
as twitter's amped up their engagement button, it leads to overload. can webmetnions potnetially lead to same problem?
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benwerd
We should wire the door up to handle webmentions
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jonpincus
tantek's iterating on the features list on /twitter
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bret
PDX here
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: I'm fascinated by @iroc's flaminga that filters twitter client side: http://madebycori.com/flaminga/
(twitter.com/_/status/494660215456165889)
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jonpincus
flamin.ga: a twitter client with shared mute lists. and, mute people and their followers
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tantek
KevinMarks: shows flaminga - twitter client
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jonpincus
will twitter change their TOS to prohibit stuff like that?
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @JonPincus: when I was doing politcal activism on twitter people tried to shout me down, I used block then
(twitter.com/_/status/494661110432538624)
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bret
aaronpk just got here, sitting here with Manny (buying domain right now) and http://www.mbcharbonneau.com
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bret
PDX will be doing a hack/work night till 9 and then we will demo what we got done
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jonpincus
do you have to publish the block list? could avoid it by doing a query; or use a bloom filter
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bret
mannylopez.me is manny's brand new domain
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: if you look at @ladygaga's or @barackobama's replies they are mostly requests to follow or crap
(twitter.com/_/status/494661911997607938)
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@benatkin
https://sandstorm.io/ sounds awesome! #opensource #appliance #ownyourdata #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/494662272522809344)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: the best block implementation was @flickr's - when you block someone the history becomes invisible to you
(twitter.com/_/status/494662372519600129)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: twitter is getting a lot of flak for their abuse policies in general - I expect they will review this
(twitter.com/_/status/494662516338089984)
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jonpincus
flickr got it right: if you block somebody, it cleans every essence of them from your profile -- not just your view, but everybody else's. it deletes the data.
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: we only get less webmention spam than trackbacks and twitter spam because it has a higher barrier to entry
(twitter.com/_/status/494663209899397120)
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jonpincus
twitter seems a lot more successful at spam then with abuse. anything to learn from that?
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@mathewi
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: twitter have special features for the verified users that show them a cleaner twitter - verified use…
(twitter.com/_/status/494663341856800768)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: the cool thing when everyone has their own readers is that there is no place to centrally spam
(twitter.com/_/status/494663688335261696)
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aaronpk
hi all
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aaronpk
lay it on me loqi
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 14 minutes ago: please review http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps#How_to_organize - I braindumped per our conversation earlier this morning. Feel free to update/rewrite as you see fit. Thanks!
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 4 hours ago: datapoint: tantek.dev works in FF30 for me.
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 4 hours ago: datapoint: tantek.dev works in FF30 for me.
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 54 minutes ago: datapoint2: tantek.dev works in FF31 for me also. So maybe it's a recent regression. Grr.
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 54 minutes ago: datapoint2: tantek.dev works in FF31 for me also. So maybe it's a recent regression. Grr.
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 28 minutes ago: another for your review: http://indiewebcamp.com/travel
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 28 minutes ago: another for your review: http://indiewebcamp.com/travel
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@wildebees
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: twitter have special features for the verified users that show them a cleaner twitter - verified use…
(twitter.com/_/status/494664249244155904)
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@mala
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: twitter have special features for the verified users that show them a cleaner twitter - verified use…
(twitter.com/_/status/494664504026726400)
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npdoty_
Portland, if you're talking, we hear you
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aaronpk
can you still hear? I muted it
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npdoty_
quiet, now
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GWG
The HWC is still on?
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tantek
GWG - we've split up into peer to peer mode here in SF
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GWG
Okay.
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GWG
I just delurked.
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GWG
I always miss it
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aaronpk
tantek: YAY that how to organize looks great
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Loqi
giggles
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aaronparecki.com
edited /IndieWebCamps (+13) "/* How to organize */ minor wording changes"
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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aaronparecki.com
edited /travel (+67) "/* Aaron Parecki */ add example of a cancelled trip"
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indie-visitor
talking about what the umbrella noun is that includes comments, likes, etc. "interactions"? "responses"?
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jonpincus
oops that last one was really me
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aaronpk
there was a disucssion about that earlier... where did that leave off?
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jonpincus
npdoty: what about cite? it's a type of mention. is it an interaction?
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ShaneHudson
it is an interaction
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jonpincus
it's in relation to another post. but not static. (does relation imply static? interactions imply time)
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tantek
thank you aaronpk! glad you liked the the how to organize draft :)
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tantek
lol at s/cleaner/a cleaner state
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aaronpk
it was actually s/to cleaner/to a cleaner state
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tantek
right, I should have s/to cleaner/cleaner
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aaronpk
that would also work
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tantek
I was just lolling because it was a dev way of saying something in terms of "… state" :)
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aaronpk
oh I spoze
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tantek.com
edited /sandstorm (+189) "live demo, headings, see also"
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tantek.com
edited /sandstorm (+21) "serverside"
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tantek.com
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tantek.com
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tantek.com
edited /store (-18) "/* Platforms */ link"
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tantek
as more indieweb projects do crowdfunding, how do we promote them?
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npd
waves
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npd
Bye all!
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tantek
bye npd!
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: when you block on @flickr it deletes all their comments on your photos, and their favorites of yours and unfollows them
(twitter.com/_/status/494677893491228673)
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+10) "/* URLs */ FB event for Minneapolis"
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tantek
!tell KartikPrabhu, gRegor` was there a specific event URL for Chicago for today? Could you add it to: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club#URLs ? Thanks!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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mattheweppelshei
waves at room
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GWG
Hello, mattheweppelshei
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bret
hey GWG
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bret
hey markmhendrickson :)
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GWG
Hi, bret
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GWG
What's going on?
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aaronpk
we just realized that calagator.org already provides an iCal feed of indieweb events in Portland
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bret
just working on gitpub
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aaronpk
webcal://calagator.org/events/search.ics?query=indieweb
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bret
have authorization, multiparsing, file handling, and git autoamtion working
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bret
now working on generating the post file
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GWG
bret: I'm much less ambitious
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bret
GWG: you just wait :p
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GWG
bret: For?
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GWG
bret: I keep taking on more small projects
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bret
You will start itching for stuff, and then you will begin writing it!
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GWG
bret: I have. Then people try to tell me to just use someone else's thing.
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bret
GWG: the more stuff you do, the more ambitious you can get
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bret
I didnt know JS in 2013
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bret
if you want, you can hack almost anything together, if you want
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@mattepp
Sorry, HATEOAS, your time on the throne was quite brief. POSSE is my new favorite acronym. http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
(twitter.com/_/status/494687296352837632)
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@mamund
RT @mattepp: Sorry, HATEOAS, your time on the throne was quite brief. POSSE is my new favorite acronym. http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
(twitter.com/_/status/494690037129560064)
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aaronpk
tonight I got my car2go trips automatically importing to my site! e.g. http://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2014/07/30/120143/
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aaronparecki.com
edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+84) "/* RSVP */ add manny and marc to RSVP"
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ShaneHudson
What base layer do you use for the maps aaronpk? The cities look really nice
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tantek
good evening #Indiewebcamp!
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GWG
tantek: Good evening. What itches have you been scratching of late?
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tantek
terminology
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GWG
Oh?
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tantek
trying to get rough consensus around what to call the set of things that is replies/comments, reposts/reshares, likes/favorites
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tantek
current candidates (from having talked to people in person and on IRC)
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tantek
1. interactions
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tantek
2. reactions
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tantek
3. responses
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GWG
I like responses, but I saw some of the debate
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tantek
in rough order of appeal / match to that general set of things
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tantek
responses both felt too much like a synonym for replies, and heavier term than what a "like" is
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GWG
I bow to the will of the group.
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tantek
or a "favorite" - which people often view as a way of just "collecting" something (almost like a public bookmarking but for private use)
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tantek
part of my goal of having this discussion is understanding the nuances of implied meaning from each of these terms
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tantek
to see if we can argue our way around to various common understandings
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GWG
tantek: Well, I recall IWC NYC where I somehow created a favorite vs like debate.
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GWG
I need to get back to work on finishing up my improved site design.
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tantek
I think I'm going to go with interactions - both benwerd and I have "speech" tested that with people in general and they seem to "get it" right away - just normal blogger/news folks rather than indieweb folks even
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ShaneHudson
I definitely prefer interactions, it gives the widest scope
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 52 minutes ago: was there a specific event URL for Chicago for today? Could you add it to: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club#URLs ? Thanks!
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: no. there was no event specific URL... we've just been using the wiki page to let people know
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tantek
ok cool
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KartikPrabhu
is catching up
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+47) "/* Notes */ kevinmarks notes from SF"
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tantek.com
created /interactions (+434) "stub"
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@bdufresne
RT @mattepp: Sorry, HATEOAS, your time on the throne was quite brief. POSSE is my new favorite acronym. http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
(twitter.com/_/status/494726404937105408)
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bret
!tell aaronpk oh noes! I left my power adapter at esri and going to Cascadia JS tomrrow
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret
!tell aaronpk what time could I swing by and get it?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /interactions (+4) "corrected typos"
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@JohnBNewton
RT @benwerd: Sandstorm.io is another very interesting #indieweb platform: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform | looks worth supporting
(twitter.com/_/status/494755620491657216)
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@glennjones
Just backed another interesting personal cloud platform sandstorm.io - crowdfunding at https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/494796813879484418)
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@WinAHome4Life
RT @glennjones: Just backed another interesting personal cloud platform sandstorm.io - crowdfunding at https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sandstorm-io-personal-cloud-platform #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/494798578301542400)
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
bnvk, himannylopez, PierreO1, glennjones_, bnvk1, wagle_, friedcell1, paulcp, icco, catsup, kylewm, teknotus, protman, bret, yakker, realzies, wagle, scor, chrissaad, barnabywalters, peat_, KartikPrabhu, cuibonobo, glennjones and brianloveswords joined the channel
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bnvk1
has anyone actually used it?
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Loqi
gRegor`: tantek left you a message 11 hours, 42 minutes ago: was there a specific event URL for Chicago for today? Could you add it to: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club#URLs ? Thanks!
wolftune and kylewm joined the channel
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@prelert
Pro tips to optimize #AnomalyDetection and overall performance using the API engine to analyze your data http://info.prelert.com/blog/tips-to-optimize-anomaly-detection-engine-api-performance #ownyourdata
(twitter.com/_/status/494857169150287872)
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@AndreJaenisch
Jay to socialising the #blogging experience! :) https://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog by @kartik_prabhu #IndieWeb #WebMention #Microformats
(twitter.com/_/status/494857761428348928)
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gRegor`
!tell tantek No event URLs yet. I'm not set up to post events on my site yet. It's on my near-future list, though.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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cuibonobo
bnvk1: thanks for those links! i'm actually *very* interested in the move to "serverless" technologies and I think it's the key for getting the indieweb to take off.
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bnvk1
cuibonobo: definitely could be one path to the golden goose
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bnvk1
mesawonders how discovery & search plays out in a serverless eco-system
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cuibonobo
no idea! but i've been following these guys very closely for the same reason: http://maidsafe.net/
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bnvk1
yah, I've followed that as well
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bnvk1
Does it actually "do" anything yet? Do they even have a working proof of concept? Or are they lost up in architecture outer space?
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cuibonobo
they've been deploying test nets and tearing them down
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cuibonobo
so it's still in iteration stage
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cuibonobo
but it seems like they're on track to have something stable by this fall
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bnvk1
hope it works out
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bnvk1
I like the ideas and goals, but just becoming increasingly skeptical of decentralized efforts with no working proof of concept
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KartikPrabhu
is the idea that we don't need to rent server space but can host it on our own machines
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cuibonobo
right. and the network encrypts your data and sends it to at least 4 other machines
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cuibonobo
so that it will always be available
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KartikPrabhu
is there any effort to actually legalise this. afaik ISPs don't actually allow you to host web servers on your connection
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KartikPrabhu
through the ToD
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gRegor`
!tell snarfed Does bridgy only poll my feed for PPD every so often? I have a POSSED note that it's saying "no post links found" and I'm pretty sure it wasn't a race condition with the syndication link.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gregorlove.com
created /PPD (+34) "redirect"
(view diff)
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cuibonobo
KartikPrabhu: I'm not sure. it would work in a similar way to bitcoin where your computer "works" for the network. has bitcoin run into ToS problems?
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gRegor`
Have you seen .bit? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.bit
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KartikPrabhu
cuibonobo: not that I know of. But i think all ISPs explicitly disallow using their services for hosting
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gRegor`
Related, but still requires a server.
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cuibonobo
gRegor`: yes! a decentralized DNS is also important. maybe Namecoin could point to a MaidSafe node and be truly serverless? i have no idea
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aaronpk
bret: I'll be at the office all morning
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Loqi
aaronpk: bret left you a message 9 hours, 21 minutes ago: oh noes! I left my power adapter at esri and going to Cascadia JS tomrrow
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Loqi
aaronpk: bret left you a message 9 hours, 20 minutes ago: what time could I swing by and get it?
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aaronpk
namecoin is not decentralized DNS
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KartikPrabhu
with all the bruhaha about speed and performance, i wonder how people will accept having to validate an entire block-chain to access some website
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Loqi
ahahaha
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aaronpk
exactly
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tommorris
KartikPrabhu: on namecoin - http://tommorris.org/posts/9040
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KartikPrabhu
don't you have to get validation from many players?
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KartikPrabhu
tommorris: agreed
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KartikPrabhu
tommorris: the quick response was due to me having read that article before :)
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aaronpk
haha "to register a Namecoin, the main site I found recommended by people requires me to login with an OpenID" <-- the best
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KartikPrabhu
right now even my SSL negotiation takes about 0.8s on webpagetest.org
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+113) "add tommorris.org indietech post"
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KartikPrabhu
else I am already competitive with dave rupert after he optimised his site
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cuibonobo
aaronpk: indeed. i decided to check it out a few months back and it involved creating an account on some currency exchange thing, changing fiat to bitcoins, and *then* being able to get namecoins. but then you have to spend those in a particular way. it's crazy town
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Loqi
tantek: gRegor` left you a message 1 hour, 11 minutes ago: No event URLs yet. I'm not set up to post events on my site yet. It's on my near-future list, though.
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tantek
gRegor`: Perhaps at least a silo-event then like Minneapolis did until someone in Chicago has event posts?
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gRegor`
I thought about doing that. Wasn't sure if it might get some irony points for not being a POSSE event. :)
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gRegor`
But now that we're in a more permanent location especially, it's a good idea.
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gRegor`
We could double our attendance, if the two people who are interested show up. :)
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Loqi
snarfed: gRegor` left you a message 28 minutes ago: Does bridgy only poll my feed for PPD every so often? I have a POSSED note that it's saying "no post links found" and I'm pretty sure it wasn't a race condition with the syndication link.
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gRegor`
One of which asked me yesterday if there was a mailing list for upcoming events. So a FB event might serve as a good reminder for her.
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gRegor`
snarfed: They came through later, so I'm guessing I was correct about the feed polling. :)
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jonpincus
good morning all. (or the appropriate time wherever you are)
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bnvk
mornin
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jonpincus
following up on tantek's question "what to call the set of things that is replies/comments, reposts/reshares, likes/favorites" -- discussed last night at http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-30#t1406780480
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jonpincus
we talked about it some at HWC in SF last night
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jonpincus
i asked people on The Tapestries, and they preferred "responses" to "interactions". [we already use "reactions" to mean "likes, favorites, agree, disagree, etc." -- that is, responses that aren't replies]
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snarfed
gRegor`: yes, iirc ppd is every 2h or so
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snarfed
(at least, for tweets (posts etc) it's already seen. it reruns when it sees a new tweet from you)
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gRegor`
Makes sense.
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tantek
jonpincus: I agree that reactions sounds like all the "lighter" things short of a comment/reply
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jonpincus
turns out there's already a wiki page on /responses :)
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gRegor`
One of my first thoughts about ppd was that it would be really intensive to look up a feed every time you processed a tweet.
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tantek
jonpincus: I know about /responses - part of why I restarted this discussion. That page is a bit of a mess and mostly historical now.
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snarfed
gRegor`: definitely. worse, every time it processes a response (interaction reaction etc)
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jonpincus
yes, and i agree we want an umbrella term for reactions, reshares, replies,...
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snarfed
tries hard to avoid the ongoing debate
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cuibonobo
snarfed: we still see you there!!
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tantek
jonpincus: Can you capture your surveyed info re responses & reactions on the /interactions page under the Alternatives subhead?
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gRegor`
jonpincus: Universal Greeting Time :) http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
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snarfed
cuibonobo: heh. i'm going to just say XXXes until they settle on the word they want :P
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jonpincus
++gRegor
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cuibonobo
snarfed: good plan
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tantek
snarfed: We're at least trying to collect both opinions and the different nuances different people / sites seem to have for the different terms
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gRegor`
Ooh, pre-increment karma
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snarfed
tantek: of course! i'm glad you all are doing it. i feel the same way i feel about markup, etc. it's important and i really appreciate that other people work hard on it, because it's not at all my thing personally
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gRegor`
snarfed: Then do we need to put content warnings on our sites? ;)
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snarfed
gRegor`: ??
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gRegor`
"XXXes"
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jonpincus
yep, will do
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gRegor`
Don't mind me
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tantek
thanks jonpincus
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jonpincus
cuibono, snarfed: are is it that you don't care about the name, or that any of the o[tions are okay, or just don't want to get dragged into an endless debate?
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snarfed
jonpincus: yes yes and yes
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snarfed
gRegor`: so just to confirm, you eventually got everything you expected from bridgy? or is something still outstanding?
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gRegor`
Looks like it's all there, yep
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achangeiscoming.net
created /reaction (+295) "Created page with "Tantek described these as the "lighter" responses -- things short of a comment/reply. "Likes" are fairly universal examples of reactions. On [[The Tapestries]], reactions inclu...""
(view diff)
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cuibonobo
jonpincus: i would care if one of the options was truly ridiculous, but the 3 that are being tossed around seem fine. my personal preference is 'reactions' as a catch-all term
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jonpincus
i agree that none of them are ridiculous
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cuibonobo
jonpincus: i'm actually more curious as to why this is being debated in the first place. is it because we want to include them in microformats or something?
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jonpincus
cuibono good question, i'm not sure why it came up in indieweb discussions
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jonpincus
on The Tapestries it comes up as part of the onboarding help text
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jonpincus
actually tantek I'm going to wait until later in the tapestries discussion to summarize the feedback
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jonpincus
thanks gRegor`!
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cuibonobo
gRegor`: seems like the crux of the issue is what page to redirect to on the wiki
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cuibonobo
*shrug* whatevs
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KartikPrabhu
question: why do we need an umbrella term for responses?
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: because we often discuss them as a set of things
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tantek
e.g. the set of things that Bridgy sends back
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jonpincus
an example would be explaining to somebody new on the system: "you get a notification whenever there's a response to a thread you're watching" [or something like that]
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tantek
both benwerd and I have had good luck with using the term "interactions" in talks (e.g. see my talk from PDF)
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tantek
to briefly describe/encapsulate the full set of things people *do* to others blog posts
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jonpincus
there are other kinds of interactions besides responses though
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jonpincus
oops
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jonpincus
i mean, there are other kinds of interactions besides replies and reactions and reshares though
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KartikPrabhu
jonpincus: I mean why does there need to be a consensus on what to call them? "you get a notification whenever there's a response to a thread you're watching" sounds the same as "you get a notification whenever there's a reaction to a thread you're watching" [or something like that] or "you get a notification whenever there's an interaction on a thread you're watching" [or something like that]
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tantek
sad that I can't even find old Technorati blog posts
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jonpincus
thanks that do not happen in response (oops) to a post
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KartikPrabhu
they all sound the same to me
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: those of us that want to use consistent terminology are seeing if we can come up with something agreeable - of course everyone is free to call them whatever they want in terms of what they think will communicate best to users
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tantek
we may need more experimentation here
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tantek
so basically, do what you want in your own content copy, and we'll iteratively figure it out by documenting experience in the wild
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gRegor`
I think it'd certainly be helpful to have one page on the wiki as the umbrella term. Whether people adopt that in the language they use or text on their site, isn't a big deal.
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cuibonobo
bnvk: there's been a lot of buzz about it on my dev social networks about it. the technology seems very cool, but i'm not sure if it can be anything other than a dev toy
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jonpincus
the cognitive load on people is lower if we can come to consensus on terminology. also protocols can be simpler. in situations where different sites are using different terms, you have to map between them.
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tantek
gRegor`: right. and we can also keep documentation of the alternatives there so people can make an informed choice
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tantek
I like that we can capture multiple perspectives on the wiki
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bnvk
cuibonobo: interesting, how so? It's a very easy installer experience
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gRegor`
Anecdata: my webmention form says "Send a Response" "Have you written a response to this? Let me know the link:"
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tantek
jonpincus - excellent answer! perhaps add that as an FAQ to the page? "Why do we need one term for this?"
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gRegor`
I also tend not to think of things people write in response to me as a "reply," but rather just a "comment."
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KartikPrabhu
gregor`: all of those wordings probably stem from adactio's use of the word response in his form
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cuibonobo
bnvk: sure! i tried out the demo and it was lovely. but, for example, i don't think any of my artist friends would be into it
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cuibonobo
bnvk: you can put your stuff on blogger or wordpress.com, so paying $60 a year doesn't seem like a good value to them
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bnvk
artist friends, being people who *should* want to host their own box instance things...
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gRegor`
Oh, and since I still accept local blog comments, there is a form below the "Send a Response" with heading "Or Add a Comment"
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KartikPrabhu
cuibonobo: good point on their part
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bnvk
KartikPrabhu: cuibonobo: yah, that is a good point in deed… however artists are usually not ones to have money to spend on web stuff
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bnvk
*indeed
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bnvk
mesathinks small biz's are a much better target market to focus on
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bnvk
Kenton's campaign is mostly going after techies / sys admins though...
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jonpincus
perhaps although small biz's are a tough market ... agreed that Kenton's targeting techies with this campaign
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KartikPrabhu
bnvk: what is the incentive for a small business to do all this instead of just getting a cheaper website and off-load all social to silos?
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jonpincus
cuibono: what would they want for $60 year?
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bnvk
well, it would depend on the "apps" that can be installed
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bnvk
https://protonet.info/en/ did exceptionally well catering to small businesses
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KartikPrabhu
bnvk: all the social silos are free (as in cost)... hard to compete with that
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jonpincus
KartikPrabhu: it depends on the business, but in general: as a better way of running easier-to-maintain-and-tweak website that lets them engage with their audience better (and, for some, improving their email security will be attractive)
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cuibonobo
jonpincus: that's just it. they wouldn't pay $60 a year. you can talk about owning your data until you're blue in the face, but someone that is happy with how tumblr works won't connect with that message.
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bnvk
right, for social stream style things- Sandstorm is not a clear value tradeoff- largely cause there's no "social" apps for it
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jonpincus
++cuibono
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jonpincus
cuibono++ ?
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tantek
cuibonobo++
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Loqi
cuibono has 1 karma
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Loqi
cuibonobo has 4 karma
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KartikPrabhu
cuibonobo: exactly my point too
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jonpincus
oops, i meant cuibonobo++ ... sorry about that
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tantek
cuibonobo: that's an *excellent* summary of the problem with charging end users. care to add that in a "Challenges" section on /business-models ?
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cuibonobo
tantek: sure
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jonpincus
if it's not owning their own data, then, what *would* they pay for?
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KartikPrabhu
and easier-to-maintain-and-tweak is not a qualification I'd use for an indiewebsite compared to a dumb old site
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KartikPrabhu
at least not yet
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bnvk
methinks "maintain-and-tweak" is not a selling point for many many people, that sounds like a headache
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bnvk
yet, I am constantly amazed by how much non-tech people connect with and have the feeling that "facebook is creepy and too much"
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jonpincus
fair point, badly phrased
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jonpincus
what they want is "easier to keep running and improve". and right, Indieweb technologies aren't there yet but then again wordpress and drupal and elgg took a while to get there.
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KartikPrabhu
bnvk: but do you think they are looking for a completely independent solution or just a better facebook?
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jonpincus
++bnvk
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KartikPrabhu
jonpincus: post-fix notation
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aaronpk
lol where did this prefix karma come from
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bnvk
KartikPrabhu: I think people deep down have some intrinsic understanding of freedom, privacy, and individuality even when it comes to complex ephemeral digital web things
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jonpincus
i'm originally a C programmer. the return value (as reported by Loqi) is the new karma, so it's a pre-increment op :)
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Loqi
who, me?
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tantek
jonpincus: remind me again where drupal and elgg "get there"?
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bnvk
doesn't most of the US gov sites run on Drupal nowadays?
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tantek
yay! enterprise & gov consulting shop maintenance fees!
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Loqi
woot
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bnvk
like whitehouse.gov and lots of things Obama has been working towards
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jonpincus
fair, although there are lots of usable enough sites built on drupal and elgg that are relatively easy to keep going
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aaronpk
Loqi I don't think you understand sarcasm
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jonpincus
agreed though this is the opportunity
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jonpincus
an opportunity
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tantek
bnvk all they did was displace more expensive closed-source alternatives. not really any kind of incremental improvement in usability or user-friendliness.
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aaronpk
ack it freaks me out when other people say things that Loqi says
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bnvk
jonpincus: what is the opportunity?
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: lol! :P
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bnvk
we are all Loqi and Loqi is all of us
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cuibonobo
jonpincus: i think the challenge that we're facing is the fact that a server needs to be maintained somewhere. if people could use software on their computer or an app on their phone, the indieweb will start to click more.
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jonpincus
an opportunity for businesses is something that's more usable/user-friendly than the current generation (wordpress, drupal, elgg) and still allows hosting yourself (unlike squarespace).
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bnvk
tantek: for sure, but isn't that still an improvement as those consulting companies usually fix bugs that make it back upstream at least somewhat, no?
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@bmann
@patrickc perhaps get #indieweb involved. Fair & one commercial company is the awkward note ;)
(twitter.com/_/status/494890097729220609)
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KartikPrabhu
cuibonobo: I am pretty confused about this "on your own computer" idea. I am supposed to leave my computer on all the time so that my website is accessible?
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cuibonobo
KartikPrabhu: maybe! i'm not sure. i feel like the things that will eventually bring the indieweb to consumers don't exist yet.
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jonpincus
cuibonobo: agreed, that would make it click a lot more. or an easy place for people to host while retaining ownership (and regular backups)
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tantek
bnvk - haha - that's horribly optimistic
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KartikPrabhu
who does one blame if their indiewebsite gets "hacked" ?
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tantek
no the consulting companies don't have time to push things back into core, nor motivation, as what they learn becomes part of their expertise and added value
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: yourself :)
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KartikPrabhu
are non-techies willing to do that?
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: are non-techies willing to be responsible for the maintenance of their bicycle, their car?
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KartikPrabhu
people still can not handle their Linux crashing
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tantek
That's the level we need to reach if you want to reach them.
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: computers are different
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bnvk
tantek: rly? horribly?
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bnvk
*sigh*
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KartikPrabhu
everything on a computer is still a dark black box
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tantek
bnvk - have you spoken with people who work with or at drupal consultants? it's pretty bad.
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tantek
nobody is happy.
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aaronpk
there was a whole floor of them below us at our old office
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bnvk
I suppose I'm basing my assumptions off of OpenSourcery, I always thought ppl liked working there for the most part
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aaronpk
I don't think a data point of just OpenSourcery is representative of the whole scene
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tantek
what is OpenSourcery?
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bnvk
a PDX drupal shop
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bnvk
aaronpk: fair nuff
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aaronpk
even in Portland there are a bunch of other shops
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@itsmisscs
@mik3cap me waits patiently. are you into the #indieweb movement? NYC does't have a meetup (hint hint)
(twitter.com/_/status/494891804861284354)
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bnvk
aaronpk: yah, I just don't have 1st hand tales from other shops- is the majority that those places are lame?
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tantek.com
edited /interactions (+1274) "expand alternatives with subsections, opinions"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
not specifically "lame", but I heard a lot of not so good things from the place downstairs over the year, and another friend at a different shop would share stories often. It's not like they were horrible places to work at, just often heard negative things about the work.
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bnvk
interesting
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bnvk
aaronpk: what do you think about https://www.stellar.org ?
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johncash
I think it's stellar!
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johncash
sorry couldn't resist
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tantek.com
edited /interactions (+919) "add Interactions as an alternative and note opinions/experience"
(view diff)
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bnvk
johncash: troll ;)
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bnvk
johncash++
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Loqi
johncash has 4 karma
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johncash
"Stellar Development is led by https://www.stellar.org/about/#Jed_McCaleb (resuming development of the open-source technology he created at Ripple" My first thought was "That sounds suspiciously like ripple"
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johncash
indiewebcash would be a cool idea
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tantek
sounds like smart people are working on it
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willnorris.com
edited /site-deaths (+292) "fotopedia shutting down"
(view diff)
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tantek
however I tend to be skeptical about starting things with a non-profit foundation
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bnvk
hehe
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tantek
ship code first, foundations second
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aaronpk
what is payment?
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Loqi
payment in the context of the indieweb refers to a feature on an indie web site that provides a way for the visitor to that website to pay (currency, gift card credit, etc.) the person represented by that indie web site http://indiewebcamp.com/payment
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bnvk
tantek: you productivity fascist, you!
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tantek
bnvk - nah, I just prefer personal productivity over paying a bunch of lawyers to sound all fancy (Look we have a foundation!)
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tantek.com
edited /interactions (+122) "/* Responses */ cite"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
ha this is great
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@jshardison
Remember how social media was supposed to "kill email?" Guess who sends me the most email? Social media tool vendors.
(twitter.com/_/status/494894345107943424)
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@mik3cap
@itsmisscs haven't been following #indieweb, what's the gist?
(twitter.com/_/status/494896237410144256)
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johncash
So true
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tantek.com
edited /interactions (+635) "processed IRC citations into actual copy/pasting of opinions inline"
(view diff)
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tantek
aaronpk, johncash nah, makes complete sense. social media tool vendors are trying to kill email by DoSing it.
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johncash
LOLOLOLOL
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aaronpk
hahaha
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bnvk
aaronpk: haha, yah that's great. Someone was JUST complaining about that to me last night- social notification emails
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johncash
They've actually done a quite brilliant job of that
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tantek
precisely
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tantek
they're poisoning the email well
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ben_thatmustbeme
I don't understand how people can do it. My wife gets like hundreds of e-mails a day. If I get 30 I feel like i got a ton. I just remove myself from everything I can
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tantek
wonders if there's an opportunity for "embridgy" - that receives emails on your behalf from social silos and then sends you webmentions to your original posts accordingly.
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bnvk
ben_thatmustbeme: same here :)
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donpdonp
bnvk: same
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bnvk
tantek: sounds like a job Mailpile could do relatively easily ;)
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tantek
like a TripIt for social emails
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bnvk
I've thought a lot about that…
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snarfed.org
edited /interactions (+277) "/* Responses */ bridgy"
(view diff)
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donpdonp
bnvk: i take it you've seen https://sandstorm.io/ (personal cloud platform)? the demo has mailpile as an option
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hmans
If someone wants to give it a go.
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tantek
hmans - see if you can get the Sandstorm.io guys to give it a go
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bnvk
donpdonp: oh yes, I've hung out at the devs sweet wired house in SV
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hmans
tantek, I will need to read up on sandstorm. Saw the link earlier, didn't grok it 100%.
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snarfed
tantek: re email-to-wm, http://bcc.npdoty.name/ is pretty cool. (it sends webmentions)
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hmans
Something something containerized apps? Sounds good. I've been experimenting with Docker. Are they Docker-based?
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donpdonp
bnvk: cool.
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aaronpk
npdoty++
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Loqi
npdoty has 2 karma
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bnvk
hmans: no, not Docker based
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tantek
npdoty++
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Loqi
npdoty has 3 karma
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tantek
hmans, what is sandstorm?
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Loqi
Sandstorm is open source software project that aims to make self-hosted personal clouds easy as well as offering a hosted paid version for less technically inclined users http://indiewebcamp.com/sandstorm
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tantek
hmans, what is Docker?
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Loqi
Docker is an open platform for server-side applications http://indiewebcamp.com/Docker
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@benwerd
@aaronpk I sincerely like the idea of making (unsolicited, at least) conversation public.
(twitter.com/_/status/421060756843417601)
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hmans
Just wondering if there's a reason why it's not piggybacking on Docker's current momentum.
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tantek
hmans, could you document Docker's "current momentum" on indiewebcamp.com/Docker ?
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tantek
has not heard of any such momentum.
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bnvk
hmans: I think because the dev of Sandstorm was involved with creating protocol buffers and is very Google style in his approach things
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hmans
Uh, sure :)~
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bear
docker is very big in the devops/sysadmin realm right now
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snarfed
tantek, hmans: docker absolutely has a lot of momentum currently
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tantek
bear please add citations of such to /Docker
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@davidmead
Good for you @bradcolbow. I can highly recommend looking at https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started and start owning yr tweets etc. too :-) #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/494899513732378624)
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bnvk
I've been hearing about Docker pretty solid for over a year now, people were keen to bug Mailpile being a Docker install
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aaronpk
yeah I keep hearing about it. I haven't started using it tho, I'm still on traditional Linode VPS stack and getting all fancy with AWS automation
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tantek
anyway - optimizing backend foo is not very high on my personal itch-list so for those whom it interests, please document as such on the wiki. I mean, might as well capture it if it's apparently so interesting and has momentum.
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@bradcolbow
Decided to move all my blog posts from Medium and Tumblr back to my own site http://bradcolbow.com/blog.html
(twitter.com/_/status/494894162454777856)
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bear.im
edited /Docker (+15) "update dfn"
(view diff)
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bear
what is docker
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Loqi
Docker is an open platform to manage light-weight LXC based containers http://indiewebcamp.com/Docker
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bear
starts adding more details...
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tantek
what is LXC?
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hmans
Docker still has some way to go, but it essentially allows me to set up a new server/VM, tell it to run #pants, and it's done.
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tantek
hopes we can avoid "jargons all the way down" type defintions. ;)
#
snarfed.org
edited /Docker (+376) "usage"
(view diff)
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bear
yea, that is what i'm struggling with even with this first edit
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tantek.com
edited /silo-quits (+250) "Brad Colbow, Medium, Tumblr"
(view diff)
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hmans
Biggest problem with Docker right now is that almost everyone talking about it is in deep into devops, and only very few people think about the benefits it (potentially) has for "normal people", too.
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tantek
hmans - perhaps you can add that to an "Issues" section on /Docker ?
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hmans
So it's hard to find literature that doesn't go all-out on jargon
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tantek
that too!
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bear
hmans - list those questions in "issues" - i'm gathering tabs now on docker and will backfill stuff today/tonight
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tantek
diggs into bcc.npdoty.name and finds RSVP posts!
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tantek
s/diggs/digs
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: digs into bcc.npdoty.name and finds RSVP posts!
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tantek
lol - sorry
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npdoty
ha, I like that Loqi vocally respects our regex syntax
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npdoty
Loqi++
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Loqi
Loqi has 277 karma
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hmans.io
edited /Docker (+241)
(view diff)
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hmans.io
edited /Docker (+50) "/* Issues */"
(view diff)
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tantek
npdoty *how* is this happening? automatically? I'll <data class="p-rsvp" value="maybe">try to make it</data> tonight
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npdoty
no, I handwrote the HTML
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tantek
in your email client?!?
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bear.im
edited /Docker (+330) "added definition of LXC"
(view diff)
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npdoty
sadly, again no, I wrote it as a blog post
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npdoty
the idea was to get bcc.npdoty.name to accept email messages to at least create drafts of these blog posts
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npdoty
but I use it infrequently enough that I'm just writing up HTML in the blog interface
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npdoty
it has some custom fields for the email headers
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tantek
oh ok you have *both* an authoring UI for it, and it receives emails and turns them into posts, got it
#
tantek
but it displays *every* post like an email message
#
tantek
with headers, content etc.
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tantek
lol your "Reply" link is a mailto!
#
tantek.com
created /2014/PDF (+401) "stub with links about PDF, video etc."
(view diff)
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npdoty
yeah, I decided that the basic premise should be an email message, that every blog post I write has some audience
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npdoty
and so often they're actually emails that I'm writing in my mail client, and other times I write a blog post and just give it mail-type headers that seem appropriate
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npdoty
and then I actually do get a few email responses via that Reply mailto link
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gregorlove.com
edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next HWC"
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hmans
Added rel="following" markup to http://hmans.io/following
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gregorlove.com
created /events/2014-08-13-homebrew-website-club (+3689) "Initial event. Please confirm venues for SF, PDX"
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npdoty
pants.social is quite a domain name
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hmans
Lovely new gtlds...
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tantek
I totally forgot to mention at HWC last night that I 1) added fragmentions support to tantek.com, and 2) held the first W3C Social Web WG telcon on Tuesday!
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tantek
I think I was too tired to think clearly last night.
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tantek
(on the topic of what's new in your indieweb life since the last HWC meetup)
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+89) "/* Photos */ add SF photo"
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bnvk
dinner time, bye y'all
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tantek
has anyone implemented indieweb "follow"?
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tantek
or for that matter, indieweb "add friend"?
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tantek
for some reason I'm getting a lot of random friend requests on Foursquare from around the world of people I don't know.
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hmans
Kind of on it
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tantek
might be nice to have an option in the software to only allow friend requests from people that are already friends of friends.
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hmans
When you follow someone with your #pants site, they'll be listed on /following, and your #pants will send a webmention to the followed user's homepage.
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tantek
or rather, people who have at least one friend in common
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tantek
otherwise reject
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tantek
we had quite a bit of discussion last night at HWC SF about "mute" and "block" features.
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jenmontes.com
edited /business-models (+378) "The challenges of charging end-users for indieweb services"
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tantek.com
edited /events/2014-07-30-homebrew-website-club (+93) "/* Photos */ POSSE copy on IG"
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tantek
cuibonobo++ thanks for that, it is an excellent reminder
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Loqi
cuibonobo has 5 karma
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cuibonobo
tantek: sure thing
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tantek
ok so - has anyone else found any confusion with "Homebrew" Website Club implying beer or a brewing focus? E.g. https://twitter.com/daviddaileysru/status/484544870015455232
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@daviddaileysru
@t @MozSF I was delighted when I discovered that there was open source beer. I told my students about it as soon as I found out!
(twitter.com/_/status/484544870015455232)
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tantek
wonders if we should open HWC meetings with jokingly asking if anyone is brewing their own beer.
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Loqi
definitely
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't drink beer. but i make my own pickles
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tantek
!tell aaronpk any photos from the PDX HWC indieweb hack night?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cuibonobo
tantek: when I think of "homebrew" the first thing that comes to my mind is actually home-made / indie games
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cuibonobo
like homebrew NES cartriges
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tantek
cuibonobo: that's a good association!
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cuibonobo
i was checking out stellar.org (bnvk linked to it) and the first thing you see when you log in is "Receive your first stellars on us! Log in with Facebook"
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tantek
I don't know if that's funny or sad.
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cuibonobo
there's a "Why Facebook?" link that says "We are currently using Facebook as a verification method to avoid spam but hope to add other methods soon. We will not post on your Facebook."
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aaronpk
tantek: yes I actaully had a guy show up at the front door thinking that there was free beer at one of the meetups
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 40 minutes ago: any photos from the PDX HWC indieweb hack night?
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aaronpk
no photos, sorry
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aaronpk
just got an invite to the google domains beta
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tantek.com
created /hwc (+35) "r"
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tantek.com
created /HWC (+35) "r"
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aaronpk
WHOA amazon is doing domain registration now too!
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tantek.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+278) "/* Structure */ more substructure, times, group photo 2"
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tantek
(two opportunities / reminders for group photos)
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aaronpk
last night we intentionally did more of a hack session than the normal schedule
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tantek
that's totally cool - perhaps the just before meeting close time would work well then
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tantek
which is when we took our photo last night (I forgot to at transition time)
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tantek
(documenting existing working practice(s) as it were)
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tantek
definitely add what you've learned from organizing HWC
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tantek.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+93) "feels fairly complete - no longer a stub, note first SF meeting"
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@hubculture
We're crafting an open Digital Bill of Rights for @hubculture with @medialab ++ What do you think? #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/hubculture/status/494949605797535747/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/494949605797535747)
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gregorlove.com
created /W3C (+686) "Created page with "{{stub}} The '''<dfn>World Wide Web Consortium</dfn> (W3C)''' is an international standards organization for the world wide web. == Social Web Working Group == In 2014, {{tant...""
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gRegor`
tantek, KevinMarks, aaronpk: ^ Initial /W3C page. Please contribute the issues that were touched on in chat.
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gRegor`
is investigating the different /reply-context examples to find something I like for my own notes.
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gRegor`
"full" reply-context, that is. I currently have minimal "in reply to a [post on domain]"
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tantek
gRegor`: could you upload a screenshot of what you currently have to the respective section?
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tantek
(for reply-context)
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gRegor`
Yeah, just discovered /reply-context-examples actually
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gRegor`
Should we consolidate the examples on /reply-context to just be on /reply-context-examples?
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tantek
gRegor`: my intent (which I probably need to make clearer) is to keep at least one illustrative example of each "level" of reply context on /reply-contex#IndieWeb_Examples, and then keep a comprehensive list on /reply-context-examples
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tantek
I for one have found doing good reply-contexts difficult, and hope that by breaking it down into incremental levels like that it encourages more people to at least *start* implementing and then level up at their own convenience / itch-scratch opportunity
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tantek
perhaps worth capturing this reasoning on the page itself?
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gregorlove.com
edited /reply-context-examples (+203) "/* Indieweb Examples */ Adding myself, photo to come."
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gRegor`
Yeah, I think that distinction would be good to capture on the page. It appeared to me at first glance like the list started on /reply-context but then as people started posting more photos / longer descriptions of it, a separate page was created.
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gregorlove.com
edited /reply-context-examples (+56) "/* gRegor Morrill */"
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gRegor`
My /reply-context-examples is a note in reply to KartikPrabhu and it happens to appear right after KartikPrabhu's example, too. :)
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tantek
KartikPrabhu - regarding marginalia/annotation UI, check this out: https://annotary.com/
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: you mean to actually create marginalia?
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tantek
correct
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tantek
like inline on your articles
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KartikPrabhu
yeah... that combined with some micropub publishing to your own site would be neat
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tantek
such a UI could then auth via IndieAuth to someone's own site, use micropub to post the marginalia to their website, send a webmention back to your article, and have it show up immediately, live.
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tantek
Medium lets you type in marginalia immediately by clicking the little (+) in a talk bubble icon
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tantek
I feel like that's the next step for marginalia
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tantek
since you've already got *receiving* them and *displaying* them figured out and implemented
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KartikPrabhu
yes it is... it is the next step for indie-responses in geenral
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tantek
now it's providing a UI for *writing* them
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tantek
it's particularly important/relevant for marginalia since those are *even more context-sensitive* like to the specific phrase or paragraph
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tantek
whereas comments on an whole article/post are ok if you just remember the gist of the article while you're writing in another window
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KartikPrabhu
presently I want to make at least a "fragmention" getter, so people can select text and get its fragmention immediately
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KartikPrabhu
then figure out this micropub thingie
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tantek
ooh - a fragmention getter! please add that as a brainstorm to the citation UI stuff
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jonnybarnes.uk
edited /IRC_People (-1) "Using new domain now"
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: you could use this trick to append the fragmention URL to the end of the selected text: http://indiewebcamp.com/citation#append_to_text_selection_copy
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: here is a rather old demo: https://kartikprabhu.com/static/demo/fragmention.html does very simple fragmentions at the moment... no checking for multiple instances and so on
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KartikPrabhu
select text - gives a floating LINK to it
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jonnybarnes.uk
created /User:Jonnybarnes.uk (+113) "Get my new user page set-up"
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tantek
nice! definitely add that as an option / idea / new subsection of http://indiewebcamp.com/citation#User_Interface
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KartikPrabhu
yeah will do in the evening
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: lol that your old demo uses "Gregor" as a character. (sorry gRegor` )
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KartikPrabhu
haha yes :P
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KartikPrabhu
that did come up at HWC once
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jonnybarnes.uk
edited /User:Jonnybarnes.net (-85) "/* Jonny Barnes.net */ Redirect to new user page under new domain"
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tantek
whoa I didn't know you could get .uk TLDs!
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tantek
I thought they all had to be .co.uk
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KartikPrabhu
new stuff like last month or two
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tantek
!tell jonnybarnes could you add a new "uk" section to http://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains#domains explaining how you got jonnybarnes.uk?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jonnybarnes
tantek: will do
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Loqi
jonnybarnes: tantek left you a message 59 seconds ago: could you add a new "uk" section to http://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains#domains explaining how you got jonnybarnes.uk?
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tantek
thanks jonnybarnes!
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jonnybarnes
tantek: you want this on the short-domains page? we should ask aaronpk about it as well, I think he tried to register pk.uk but couldn't because pk.co.uk had been regsitred and they get dibs for some period of time
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jonnybarnes
i.e. its i dont think its easy to get a short .uk domain
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tantek
yes definitely please document such experiences there on a new "uk" subsection of that section I linked
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tantek
wonders if someone already has tukt.uk
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johncash
You have to live in UK to get a uk domain though
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tantek
please add that detail also to /short-domains#uk once jonnybarnes has started that section
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jonnybarnes.uk
edited /short-domains (+425) "/* domains */ Adding .uk section"
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bear
they require identity proof for the new .uk
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tantek
bear - if you have a citation for that please add to /short-domains#uk
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jonnybarnes
heres the ref from the wikipedia article about .uk domains being reserved: http://www.dotuklaunch.uk/dates-and-definitions
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jonnybarnes
bear: I swear iwantmyname.com just registered the domain for me
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bear
it's like .ca in that you have to have a address in your whois that is inside that country
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tantek
yup - I believe you - just add it to that page accordingly
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bear
yep - was just finishing the thought while I log into the wiki
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tantek.com
created /User:ShaneHudson.net (+80) "stub with an h-card"
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bear.im
edited /short-domains (+310) "add note about address requirements for uk tld"
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jonnybarnes
anyone can actually register a .uk domain
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bear
but they have to have a contact address *in* then UK ?
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tantek
oh hey that's much easier
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jonnybarnes
yeah, thats worth putting in the wiki
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bear
and then this part "The sale of third level registrations to unrelated third parties is not permitted" says that you can't use a third party's address
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jonnybarnes
but techinically, anyoe can register a .uk domain
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bear
i'll adjust the text to read "anyone with a UK mailing address"
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bear
and change the namecheap link to this one and call out section 7
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jonnybarnes
no, that meand if I register cool.uk, I can't sell you the domain super.cool.uk
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bear
ohhh
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jonnybarnes
bear: great
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bear
adjusts text more
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tantek
!tell barnabywalters so now that top level .uk registrations have opened up, are you going to get waterpigs.uk ? /short-domains#uk
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bear
can someone loan me a uk address
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bear
someone from the uk should jump on this -- y.uk is available :)
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tantek
how are all the single letters not already taken like instantly?
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bear.im
edited /short-domains (-100) "better link and more accurate text"
(view diff)
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bear
unless namecheap was lieing to me
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jonnybarnes
y.co.uk has rights over the domain :(
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tantek
that makes sense
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tantek
reasonable policy to avoid annoying squatting / overhead
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aaronpk
I tried getting pk.uk, barnaby even was going to let me borrow his mailing address
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aaronpk
but pk.co.uk has first dibs for several years
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willnorris
voxpelli: webmention.herokuapp.com doesn’t seem to be parsing my author hcard on https://willnorris.com/2014/07/one-step-forward-two-steps-back. Have you seen any issues with that?
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willnorris
aaronpk: you have any idea why I’m getting two duplicate authors here: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwillnorris.com%2F2014%2F07%2Fone-step-forward-two-steps-back ?
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willnorris
is the Google+ rel=author getting parsed somehow?
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aaronpk
it *might* be because by default pin13 parses legacy microformats
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tantek
lol "Google+ rel=author"
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aaronpk
"classic"
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tantek
willnorris: it's just "rel=author" :)
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willnorris
well yes, but I added it specifically for google+
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tantek
willnorris - it's at the bottom of that pin13 result - in the "rels" collection, "author" key
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tantek
also - you shouldn't need to use rel=author to link to your G+ profile - that should be a rel=me
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aaronpk
google authorship has some specific requirements
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tantek
you should link to your *homepage* willnorris.com with rel=me
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willnorris
yes, it should be. except google+ requires rel=author for their authorship stuff
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aaronpk
to get your photo to show up
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Loqi
fo sho
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tantek
and then on your home page use rel=me to link to G+
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tantek
aaronpk, willnorris I know that
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tantek
hence why I am saying the above - which they implemented back in the day when they first implemented rel=author
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tantek
they only require rel=me to your G+ profile *once* from your *homepage*, assuming your *posts* link to your homepage with rel=author
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tantek
anyway - Google has broken so much indieweb search recently it's really bad
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tantek
they basically stopped responding to PuSH notifications
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tantek
they stopped indexing all posts (they used to)
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tantek
so now they're very poor for site-specific search
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tantek
(i.e. indieweb site search boxes)
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willnorris
aaronpk: okay yeah… it’s because I’m using both uf1 and uf2 syntax
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