#indiewebcamp 2014-08-08

2014-08-08 UTC
KevinMarks_, paulcp and chrissaad joined the channel
#
Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/pierreozoux/497045872778436608/225752166 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-08-13-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
tantek having edited wikipedia and had my edits blown away by other worse edits, or pages deleted etc., I definitely have a minor itch for publishing /edit posts on my own site first, and then POSSEing them to wikipedia
#
tantek I think an /edit post is a kind of response/interaction to/with another post/URL
#
tantek is anyone exploring publishing /edit posts on their own domain?
#
KartikPrabhu is there a rule that I should post /edit posts only to wikis?
#
aaronpk why not publish suggested edits to someone else's articles!
chrissaad joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu or other copyrighted material :P
#
gRegor` https://haveibeenpwned.com/ is a good resource too, linked from Graham's piece above.
#
aaronpk wow
#
KartikPrabhu I would be not happy if someone posted an "edit" to my article
wolftune joined the channel
#
gRegor` posts "I would be happy if someone posted an "edit" to my article" for Kartik's chat log.
wolftune joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu see what I mean ^^^
#
aaronpk KartikPrabhu: you don't have to accept his edit :)
#
KartikPrabhu <shrug>
#
KartikPrabhu I don't know of any reason to post such a thing though
#
KartikPrabhu if i disagree with something, I'll post a reply. why "edit"?
#
aaronpk for suggesting typo fixes
#
KartikPrabhu <shrug> i don't think editorial corrections warrant a post-type. but that's me
#
kylewm "typo fixes" -- that was why i was originally excited about marginalia, KartikPrabhu!
#
aaronpk i'd love it if someone published an edit to one of my posts, sent a webmention, then I got a little "accept" button in my interface where it would apply their edit
#
KartikPrabhu kylewm: maybe
#
kylewm aaronpk: and if three people suggest the same edit, i want it to go through automatically :)
#
aaronpk oo
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
kylewm i love that
#
aaronpk i'm out for a bit, ttyl!
#
kylewm self-hosted wiki edits sounds like Smallest Federated Wiki, btw
#
tantek aaronpk, kylewm sounds like awesome use-cases!
#
tantek kylewm: sort of. except smallest federated wiki is limited to its weird JSON content model.
#
tantek we should be able to post arbitrary edits to pages
#
tantek s/pages/HTML pages
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: we should be able to post arbitrary edits to HTML pages
#
tantek.com edited /PHP (+465) "/* session start failed */ note errors that indicate failure to use sudo when restarting apache" (view diff)
caseorganic joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /PHP (+205) "/* session start failed */ if permission denied on cp php.ini use sudo, tweak some fmt" (view diff)
npdoty, tantek and wolftune joined the channel
#
Loqi [mention] https://willnorris.com/2014/08/proxying-webmentions-with-nginx linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-05-04/line/1399233029 (webmention)
tantek, caseorganic, wolftune and npdoty joined the channel
#
KevinMarks Are these /edit posts like pull requests?
#
@OscarSanFuentes Web.mention, la aplicación para monitorizar la reputación online de tu empresa http://oscarsanfuentes.blogspot.nl/2014/07/webmention-la-aplicacion-para.html?m=1 #socialmedia (twitter.com/_/status/497555471445028864)
#
tantek.com edited /PHP (+212) "/* session start failed */ cite another article about the error" (view diff)
#
tantek !tell npdoty you've helped inspire a bunch of thinking - check this out: http://indiewebcamp.com/email_list
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek KevinMarks: they could be! certainly "suggested edits" are a solid use-case for /edit posts
#
tantek and we wouldn't use terms like "pull request" as that implies a bunch of nerdery that most people have no idea/desire to know about. it's also plumbing (git) specific
#
npdoty ha, tantek, this is awesome
#
Loqi npdoty: tantek left you a message 1 minute ago: you've helped inspire a bunch of thinking - check this out: http://indiewebcamp.com/email_list
#
tantek thanks!
#
npdoty yeah thanks, Loqi, I already saw it
#
Loqi who, me?
#
npdoty There are very few (maybe just one) real world IndieWeb examples .... :)
#
tantek feel free to update my hypothetical POSSE description with what you've figured out / implemented: http://indiewebcamp.com/email_list#POSSE_to_an_email_list
#
tantek do you send Archived-At: header with your bcc.npdoty.name permalink in your emails?
scor joined the channel
#
npdoty no, I don't, and I *so* should do that
#
tantek.com edited /email_list (+65) "/* POSSE to an email list */ clarify Bridgy Publish" (view diff)
#
npdoty when I'm sending to a w3c mailing list, I think it makes more sense for the list to introduce the archived-at header
#
npdoty and I'm not sure how list software handles incoming mail with archived-at headers
#
tantek I don't. Prefer the independent / original source over the aggregator!
#
tantek well you could find out!
#
npdoty I suspect w3.org will do a better job maintaining archives than I will
#
tantek so they can add their own Archived-At
#
npdoty since it's part of their institutional mission, whereas for me it's a side project
#
tantek multiple Archived-At would be interesting to see and even more robust! (LoCKSS)
caseorganic joined the channel
#
npdoty rfc5064 notes that multiple Archived-At headers are explicitly allowed, and should be used for cases where a list is adding another place where the message is archived
#
npdoty (of course, that's different from what implementations like W3C's actually do, which I'll have to test...)
#
tantek there yougo
#
KevinMarks Is this an example of /edit https://github.com/kevinmarks/kevin-marks.com/pull/1/files
caseorganic joined the channel
#
npdoty if I were to convince aaronpk to give me an account on webmention.io, does that mean I could support webmentions just by pointing to webmention.io and then writing a little bit of JavaScript to query for webmentions about a post and then render them client-side?
caseorganic, snarfed and paulcp joined the channel
#
kylewm !tell npdoty yes about rendering webmentions client side! there is also https://webmention.herokuapp.com/
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
j12t and caseorganic joined the channel
#
snarfed !tell npdoty also https://github.com/bcomnes/webmention.js
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
caseorganic and techlifeweb joined the channel
#
kylewm snarfed: really interesting about having to have separate app keys for r/w and read-only twitter applications
simsketch joined the channel
#
snarfed kylewm: seriously!
#
kylewm how does one decide if that's worthwhile? :)
#
snarfed UX decision i guess
#
kylewm UX, you already have two separate auth steps within bridgy (I think)
#
kylewm if you changed, it would be a bummer for everyone that is using twitter publish currently to have to re-auth with the new app key, but my impression is that's not too terribly many people yet
#
kylewm also hope I wasn't out of line saying that I thought email was out of scope for bridgy!
caseorganic joined the channel
#
snarfed not at all! you're pretty much an owner now too :P
#
snarfed thanks for weighin in
#
snarfed re changing app keys, yeah, we'd probably keep using the existing access tokens for existing users
#
kylewm oh good point!
#
snarfed and also good point that it's not really a UX decision now. more an ops/deployment question i guess
#
snarfed plus changing some of the code structure to support two different twitter keys
caseorganic, chrissaad and wolftune joined the channel
#
aaronpk !tell npdoty I know you already got a bunch of replies about this but yes that's correct. also you now have an account with the username "npdoty.name" :-)
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
jsilvestre, caseorganic and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek !tell KevinMarks yes your pull request on github looks like an example of a github edit post
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
caseorganic, simsketch_ and cweiske joined the channel
#
tantek regarding edit posts (what mediawiki calls diffs), I did set aside a shortcode / single-letter content-type prefix for it in Whistle: d - for diff, edit, change http://tantek.com/w/Whistle#design
caseorganic joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /wiki-page (+11) "/* See Also */ edit" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /wiki-page (+386) "linky edits, note additional qualities "user contibutions" feature of MediaWiki" (view diff)
ShaneHudson joined the channel
#
@trendyinthesky RT @OscarSanFuentes: Web.mention, la aplicación para monitorizar la reputación online de tu empresa http://oscarsanfuentes.blogspot.nl/2014/07/webmention-la-aplicacion-para.html?m=1 #socialmedia (twitter.com/_/status/497638020976484352)
#
tantek.com created /edits (+18) "r" (view diff)
jsilvestre, eschnou and caseorganic joined the channel
#
tantek.com created /edit (+56) "stub" (view diff)
Pierre-O, caseorganic, ShaneHudson, petermolnar, krendil and Sebastien-L joined the channel
#
ShaneHudson !tell jgarber I saw you're plugin, it looks very good but there appears to be no recieving/storing? I would rather not use an external service for it
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
eschnou, caseorganic, jsilvestre and barnabywalters joined the channel
#
Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message 10 hours, 50 minutes ago: perhaps consider applying to this: http://opennews.org/fellowships/apply.html - background: http://open.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/07/build-an-open-source-community-platform-with-new-york-times-washington-post-and-mozilla bet you could get paid to teach them a few things. ;)
PierreO, Sebastien-L, caseorganic, barnabywalters_, mcepl, eschnou, kylewm_, reidab_ and mlinksva joined the channel
#
barnabywalters heroku launches one-click deploy button: https://blog.heroku.com/archives/2014/8/7/heroku-button
#
jonnybarnes Google announced this yesterday: http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/https-as-ranking-signal.html
#
jonnybarnes which ironically doesn't support https
#
ShaneHudson Hah
#
ShaneHudson Yeah it is a good move overall I think, but still so many sites (including my own) not on https
caseorganic and scor joined the channel
#
barnabywalters looking at my archives over time shows that https domains consistently make up 10% of the domains I link to
#
barnabywalters that’s not weighted by total number of pages under each domain though
adactio and caseorganic joined the channel
#
voxpelli main downside of using GitHub Pages, apart from not being able to do non-200 HTTP responses, is that one can't use https there :/
#
cweiske and apart from being a silo
caseorganic joined the channel
#
voxpelli cweiske: GitHub Pages with your own domain is no different from any other hosts in most regards
ShaneHudson, jsilvestre, caseorganic, chrissaad, frzn, eschnou and cuibonobo joined the channel
#
ShaneHudson This looks interesting http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/07/this-guy-tracks-everything-about-himself-and-puts-it-up-online-for-everyone-to-see/ he tracks quite a lot of things
jsilvestre joined the channel
#
pdurbin there's also this: Open Sourcing My Genetic Data | The Beautiful, Tormented Machine - http://manu.sporny.org/2011/public-domain-genome/ ... https://github.com/msporny/dna
caseorganic, tommorris, eschnou, paulcp, snarfed, fmarier, brianloveswords and gRegor` joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks @satifice @hirojin there's some help at http:// http://indiewebcamp.com/https (twitter.com/_/status/497759738394730496)
#
gRegor` Morning, campers
willnorris and chrissaad joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme Morning gRegor
wolftune, friedcell and Acidnerd joined the channel
#
@leivajd @MaxMendezWeb @betovarg @jeffesquivels @jmolivas Indie Web - Own your data. https://indiewebcamp.com/principles (twitter.com/_/status/497770509363212288)
#
@kevinmarks @Pinboard you can have comments on a static site with webmentions: see the bottom of http://www.kevinmarks.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/497771292091625473)
caseorganic joined the channel
#
Loqi [mention] https://willnorris.com/2014/08/sending-webmentions-golang linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Libraries (webmention)
#
aaronpk wow neat
#
aaronpk willnorris++
#
Loqi willnorris has 10 karma
#
@willnorris here's a little go client I wrote for sending webmentions #indieweb https://willnorris.com/2014/08/sending-webmentions-golang (twitter.com/_/status/497774634238885888)
#
willnorris oops, forgot to mention in the post that this is of course in no way bound to any publishing platform. should be obvious, but worth pointing out
#
aaronpk worth pointing out, but I did infer that
#
aaronpk side note: this is why I don't believe in using custom fonts for body text of websites. KartikPrabhu's site has the same problem: http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/webmention-20140808-090205.png
#
willnorris hmph :(
#
aaronpk it's like a 20% chance that the page will load like that for me
#
aaronpk usually a refresh fixes it
#
willnorris is that just a flash of unstyled content, or does it stay like that?
#
willnorris huh, weird
#
aaronpk it says like that
#
aaronpk Chrome 36.0.1985.125
#
aaronpk osx
#
willnorris I really like asciinema too, which is what I did for the screencast. I think I’d seen them before, but never used them… it’s pretty nice
#
gRegor` Nice "W" logo. Did you make that?
#
willnorris hah, no that’s aaronpk’s
#
barnabywalters willnorris++ for hosting go code on his own domain! nice work
#
gRegor` I didn't know anyone had taken a crack at a logo yet.
#
Loqi willnorris has 11 karma
#
aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention
#
aaronpk came from webmention.io but I think everyone wanted a webmention protocol logo :)
#
barnabywalters meta name=go-import ftw
#
aaronpk I actually liked my "P" version better from when webmention.io was pingback.me
#
barnabywalters import paths == documenttion ftw
#
aaronpk related: I just edited a video yesterday from a Go talk that Francesc Campoy gave at our office last week
#
willnorris what was the “P” version, I forget
#
aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/blob/b9595e546025e702c56969b9c55d703aa680e4f4/public/img/PingbackLogo512.png
#
barnabywalters I really want to start using Go more, but am put off mainly by the amount of work I’ve done building a PHP environment for building indieweb stuff quickly, which would have to be rebuilt in Go :(
#
kylewm_ willnorris: "go-webmention is copyright Google" does that mean you are able to build indieweb stuff at work?
#
willnorris ah, nice. I actually don’t even remember that logo
#
gRegor` Nice work, willnorris. I like "presented with the list of discovered links, and you select which ones to send webmentions to" I was planning to do similar with javascript as I type
#
gRegor` populate a list of links with a checkbox beside each (pre-checked)
#
gRegor` I might make it do endpoint discovery during that process if it's not too slow, so links that are not webmention capable will be unchecked
#
aaronpk great idea!
caseorganic joined the channel
#
willnorris gRegor`: yeah, I was planning to do the same :)
#
willnorris go ahead and do discovery early and disable those that don’t have support
#
gRegor` barnabywalters: I'm in a similar boat with Nucleus CMS and wanting to migrate to ProcessWire. Though at least they're both PHP :)
#
willnorris kylewm_: sort of. Google has a process where you can ask the company to diclaim any copyright for personal projects. If you go through that, then you of course can’t use ANY Google resources or time to work on the project. I don’t have a personal laptop, so use my Google laptop for everything. Plus I do sneak a few minutes here and there to work on personal stuff. Since Google is fine releasing it as open source, I don’t worry too much
#
willnorris about who technically owns the copyright.
#
gRegor` Interesting
#
willnorris kylewm: though this is by no means my primary focus at work. I work on other open source related projects
j12t joined the channel
#
kylewm oh fascinating, that also answers a question I had about Camlistore
#
willnorris sort of. Though Brad has recently switched to focusing on Camlistore 100%, rather than it just being a 20% project
#
willnorris but yeah, that’s why it was Google copyright even when he was working on it most on his own time
#
barnabywalters willnorris: OOI, what open source related projects do you work on within Google in official capacity?
#
barnabywalters gRegor`: yeah, if only all this technology worked nicely together :)
#
willnorris I manage our ~45 GitHub organizations and help various teams wanting to release code there. My team is also building a system to better handle Contributor License Agreements signed by people that contribute to our open source projects…. better handling of private data in the CLAs, add integration with GitHub pull requests, etc. All of that is written in Go
#
willnorris Future projects will be stuff like tools to make sure our GitHub projects comply with our internal policies for open source (presence of a LICENSE file, proper license headers at the top of source files, etc)
#
kylewm barnabywalters: gRegor`: on the pro-side, switching environments/frameworks is a good exercise in cutting out everything you don't absolutely need
caseorganic joined the channel
#
willnorris yeah, that has certainly been a barriar for me in switching off of wordpress, but it’s been really good about forcing me to focus on what’s really important
#
gRegor` kylewm: Yeah, I'm about 80% sure I'm moving to ProcessWire. The blog I set up for Amanda uses it, so it makes sense that I work on one framework instead of two.
#
gRegor` Though experimenting with Python or Go is also tempting. :)
#
kylewm just have to be willing to swallow the initial huge cut in productivity :)
#
@GoLang247 RT @willnorris: here's a little go client I wrote for sending webmentions #indieweb https://willnorris.com/2014/08/sending-webmentions-golang (twitter.com/_/status/497781624008765440)
#
willnorris kylewm: yeah, but it also forces me to build all these new tools which is actually really fun :)
#
kylewm willnorris++
#
Loqi willnorris has 12 karma
#
willnorris plus that’s the only way we’re going to get good language coverage for these new technologies like webmentions et al
#
willnorris I think my next biggest pain point is going to be a good microformats parser for Go. I have very mixed feelings about writing that one, since it’s going to be a fair amount of work I think
eschnou and barnabywalters joined the channel
#
willnorris.com edited /webmention (+159) "add my new go library" (view diff)
#
willnorris.com edited /webmention (+0) "s/=/-/" (view diff)
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
barnabywalters willnorris: yeah, I looked into making a Go microformats parser and was a little put off by the lack of a HTML parser in the standard library, but I understand there are good ones available
#
barnabywalters willnorris: let me know if you do start work on a Go mf parser, I’d enjoy helping it kick off in the right direction (much like the python parser) and might be able to help
#
willnorris yeah, it’s in the go.net package (https://godoc.org/code.google.com/p/go.net/html). Still maintained by the Go team, but not part of the standard library yet so that they can still make breaking changes if they need to
#
willnorris that’s what I’m using for my webmention client for link discovery
#
barnabywalters oh cool — I’ve used goquery in the past for small HTML parsing experiments, which I think uses go.net/html internally
#
willnorris yeah, it does. It may also use cascadia, I don’t remember, which does the css selector parsing
#
willnorris I’m also using that (cascadia - https://godoc.org/code.google.com/p/cascadia) for my webmention client
#
barnabywalters nice! so all the tools are in place at least
#
willnorris I’ll definitely let you know when I start the mf parser… it should likely happen before too long :)
snarfed joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks RT @willnorris: here's a little go client I wrote for sending webmentions #indieweb https://willnorris.com/2014/08/sending-webmentions-golang (twitter.com/_/status/497789629303517184)
#
@indiewebcamp RT @willnorris: here's a little go client I wrote for sending webmentions #indieweb https://willnorris.com/2014/08/sending-webmentions-golang (twitter.com/_/status/497791776132833280)
caseorganic, tilgovi, eschnou, paulcp and manny__ joined the channel
#
@pfefferle RT @willnorris: here's a little go client I wrote for sending webmentions #indieweb https://willnorris.com/2014/08/sending-webmentions-golang (twitter.com/_/status/497797971569049602)
#
@GoLang247 "Sending Webmentions with Go" by @willnorris https://willnorris.com/2014/08/sending-webmentions-golang?utm_content=buffercb676&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #golang (twitter.com/_/status/497798441616289792)
brianloveswords, barnabywalters, caseorganic and caseorga_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk who was asking about where the IRC log source code lives?
#
bear.im edited /Nginx (+214) "add istlsfastyet.com to list of example configs" (view diff)
#
bear.im edited /Nginx (+2) "fix link formats" (view diff)
michel_v joined the channel
#
aaronpk it's here now https://github.com/aaronpk/indiewebcamp-irc-logs
#
bear.im edited /Nginx (+197) "add mozilla server configuration page link" (view diff)
Pierre-O, petermolnar and eschnou joined the channel
#
willnorris.com edited /Nginx (+149) "add willnorris to list of nginx users" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme hmm, really liking this idea of getting my site to work from cache. specifically the admin side to be able to cache my posts and then actually upload them once i connect agian
#
aaronpk yeah offline editing is a really big deal, and very few apps actually handle it properly
#
aaronpk i've been seeing it happen more and more though, things like Jawbone and Wordpress do a good job
#
aaronpk the worst is when an app assumes the network is available and won't even load up the interface without network
#
aaronpk this happens for web apps by default of course, but surprisingly also happens for native apps
#
barnabywalters my approach to “offline editing” (on desktop at least) is to be able to sync my local and remote sites with git
#
barnabywalters and then just run taproot locally — usually for testing, but I suppose if I really wanted to write something and had no network that would work too
#
aaronpk i do that a lot from my laptop, like writing on planes
#
@golang_news Sending Webmentions with Go https://willnorris.com/2014/08/sending-webmentions-golang #reddit (twitter.com/_/status/497809519070957568)
#
ben_thatmustbeme i like the idea of an app that just supports micropub too
#
ben_thatmustbeme then its just always offline editing, and when you connect you just post via micropub
#
ben_thatmustbeme it just might happen to be immediately
fourtonfish joined the channel
#
aaronpk that's what my pushups app does
#
aaronpk and my gps tracker
#
aaronpk it writes to a local sqlite DB first, then tries to push it to the server separately
#
ben_thatmustbeme cool
#
ben_thatmustbeme just need to do that for photos and posts. the gps tracker is cool
#
aaronpk instagram does it too!
#
ben_thatmustbeme yeah, thats what i use ownyourgram for now
#
ben_thatmustbeme thats the only reason i use instagram
tilgovi joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme but you can't post just text in instagram can you?
#
aaronpk no
#
ben_thatmustbeme i'd imagine the pushups app would be easy to convert for that
#
aaronpk i kind of want it to be more like instagram where it shows the queue and you can cancel them if you want
#
Loqi [@benwerd] @lynnemagic @mcclure111 Couldn't resist. But it's an open source, #indieweb thing
#
Loqi didn't intend a hard sell. (http://twtr.io/pPqtT0q4aC)
manny__ and caseorganic joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ you could render the text to an image and post that to instagram
#
ben_thatmustbeme that would be nice
#
Loqi KevinMarks_: tantek left you a message 12 hours, 28 minutes ago: yes your pull request on github looks like an example of a github edit post
#
ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks_ at that point i could just take a photo of nothing at all and add the text i want to it. Or write the text out by hand and take a photo of the paper.
#
kylewm barnabywalters: aaronpk: how does your index get updated after editing files and pushing to git?
#
kylewm editing posts*
#
barnabywalters kylewm: my index is a CSV file in git which gets updated by taproot when a post has been edited, so the index update happens automatically :)
#
kylewm ohh i see, you're editing via taproot locally, not editing via a text editor
manny__ and fourtonfish joined the channel
#
barnabywalters kylewm: well, even if I was editing with a text editor, I could add the new index line to the CSV with that too :)
caseorganic joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks @xor it is however a move against individual domains as opposed to subdomains, as cert setup gets amortized over those #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/497819108679770112)
chrissaad joined the channel
#
kylewm good point, thanks barnabywalters. pretty much the same deal for me, but it's a json index instead of csv
#
KevinMarks_ shudders at CSV, unless you mean TSV-but-call-it-CSV
#
barnabywalters KevinMarks_: keep shuddering ;)
#
kylewm i believe i remember you said php has good/fast support for csv
#
ben_thatmustbeme eep, tsv? no thank you
#
KevinMarks_ will make sure not to use quotes, commas or spaces when webmentioning your site
#
ben_thatmustbeme haha
#
KevinMarks_ CSV has deeply broken escaping conventions that are non-deterministic
#
barnabywalters KevinMarks_: I welcome your test cases!
#
KevinMarks_ TSV has simple ones \t \\ \n \r
#
barnabywalters send as many as you want!
#
KevinMarks_ you can have a CSV monoculture, but interop is fragile
#
willnorris how about ascii delimited text? http://ronaldduncan.wordpress.com/2009/10/31/text-file-formats-ascii-delimited-text-not-csv-or-tab-delimited-text/
#
willnorris I’ve never used that myself, but am intrigued by it
#
KevinMarks_ aha
#
KevinMarks_ I've seen pipe-delimited
#
kylewm \0 delimited could be interesting
caseorganic joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ the advantage of tab-delimited is that everything reads it already
#
barnabywalters willnorris: that’s pretty awesome
#
KevinMarks_ nice try kylewm
#
barnabywalters I wonder if it would be possible to make a font which had special characters for unit and record separator codepoints
#
KevinMarks_ I like the idea of the ascii separators, but tab and newline are de facto
#
barnabywalters HEY EVERYONE HOW ABOUT EMOJI DELIMITED TEXT
#
barnabywalters GREAT IDEA HUH
#
barnabywalters no-one types mose emoji characters, so it’s unlikely to ever be a problem
#
barnabywalters s/mose/most
#
Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: no-one types most emoji characters, so it’s unlikely to ever be a problem
#
KevinMarks_ thisisatest
#
KevinMarks_ hm, they get rendered oddly
#
barnabywalters I see nothing
#
barnabywalters this🐐is🐐a🐐test
caseorganic joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ there is an invisible separator:⁣see
#
KevinMarks_ U+2063
scor joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ Ethiopic Paragraph Separator: ፨
willnorris joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_ anyone want to critique my CSS?
#
ben_thatmustbeme sure
#
barnabywalters KevinMarks_: sure, where is it?
#
KevinMarks_ https://googledrive.com/host/0B7cAS_dEul22c3BqRkx1LXhoOFU/
#
KevinMarks_ this is attempting to match a photoshop comp and make it responsive
#
KevinMarks_ the form elements need more work
#
KevinMarks_ and I probably need to make the social media SVGs a uniform size
#
ben_thatmustbeme the background gets odd with it wide screen on desktop
#
ben_thatmustbeme the bottom image slides behind the top one
#
barnabywalters KevinMarks_: the silo SVGs should have cursor: pointer as they are perform actions
#
barnabywalters having bullets next to the profile photos looks a bit weird and can be removed with list-style: none
#
KevinMarks_ yes, there was supposed to be more content after the headshots to fill thta gap, but it isn't ready yet
#
barnabywalters at 320x480 the profile names split over two lines and overlap, and the email element pushes outside the viewport
#
KevinMarks_ the comp had more lines joining up the grid thing at the top with the other elements. I may need to do some SVG or d3 to make that work
#
kylewm @LonnieRae came to HWC once right?
#
barnabywalters looking good though! is this what you’re working on now?
#
KevinMarks_ yes she did.
#
KevinMarks_ I'm advising them and helping out fairly heavily ta the moment
#
KevinMarks_ I have 2 differnt kinds of clickable SVG- the 3 on sticks and the ones in the hcards
#
KevinMarks_ not sure how to make them highlight on hover like the "play" link
#
ben_thatmustbeme the blue border around the SEND button is different per browser from what i'm seeing, several pixel space above on FF, space on top,right, and left on chrome
#
barnabywalters ah, it’s the ones on sticks (sticks?) which have no cursor styles
#
KevinMarks_ yes, the send button is a problem. I may make it a link instead
#
KevinMarks_ right, cos they're inside a single SVG file
#
KevinMarks_ I can add a hover action there though
#
KevinMarks_ I'm also wondering if I should just build more of it in SVG
#
barnabywalters in responsive designs I’ve found that SVG lends itself best to very small components rather than anything involving layout
#
KevinMarks_ right, I'd end up having to use raphael or d3, which is non-ideal
#
barnabywalters at work we ended up rebuilding all of our SVG charts as HTML with SVG elements where required, and it’s way easier to deal with, and more flexible (literally)
#
barnabywalters turns out HTML is pretty good at wrapping text
#
barnabywalters and SVG is good for wild shapes
#
KevinMarks_ the comp had lots of think lines with glowy dots on thta joined the lght mesh at the top to the elements
#
barnabywalters ooooooh
#
KevinMarks_ not sure how to do that and have the SVG and HTML co-ordinates track
#
barnabywalters tbh whenever I get tempted to make something like that, I decide that it’s not really true to the medium and build something simpler — but I respect that you may not have the choice :)
#
ben_thatmustbeme wider than 1024, the background is def not right... not sure what you can do about that though
#
KevinMarks_ we can decide what works, but I do like the idea
#
KevinMarks_ I think I need to add more vertical space
#
barnabywalters yeah if you want SVG and HTML sharing coordinate spaces on a responsive design, you’re going to have to use some (probably a lot) javascript
#
KevinMarks_ yep
#
ben_thatmustbeme yeah, that would work, not ideal though, I like to make my css work for short pages as well as long
#
KevinMarks_ but I do liek the idea of the hcards bouncing around on strings
#
barnabywalters KevinMarks_: maybe this would be of some use: http://jsplumbtoolkit.com/demo/home/dom.html
#
KevinMarks_ maybe I could add a gradient fade that softens the top edge of the bottom thing when they overlap
#
barnabywalters it’s the best project I’ve come across which coordinates SVG and HTML coordinates
#
KevinMarks_ neat
#
barnabywalters I use(d) it in http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/feed/edit
#
KevinMarks_ though not responsive
#
KevinMarks_ they all crop when scaled
#
barnabywalters KevinMarks_: no, though you might be able to persuade it to be adaptive
#
KevinMarks_ I still think there is scope to do a fully SVG UX soon, but you do lose HTML-ness
#
barnabywalters IIRC, you just need to move the HTML elements around and tell jsplumb to redraw, and it’ll sync the SVG connections
#
ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks_ the only way i can think of is to make another copy of the images joined, and then have a media query to use that as the only background image if the window is above a certain width
#
KevinMarks_ I'll have a look - if I can replace that png hairlines mesh thingy at the top with SVG it would look better
#
ben_thatmustbeme actually scratch that, then it would fail for pages with a lot of vertical space
#
KevinMarks_ I think another Bg image in front that is basically a fade to black that softens it when they collide might work
caseorganic joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme yeah, that may be your best bet
#
KevinMarks_ it's nicer than the current parzival.com anyway
alanpearce joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme yeah
snarfed joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme definitely
brainTrain_, paulcp, wolftune and willnorris joined the channel
#
hecavanagh.org edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+154) "/* Bloggers */" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks_ hm, SVG's don't work on my Gingerbread test phone
pauloppenheim and caseorganic joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme hmm, i will have plenty of time on the train tonight.... the question is what new feature to add
paulcp, plieuse and caseorganic joined the channel
#
aaronpk kylewm: I have a function that knows how to update the index for a single post, which is what the server does when it adds new posts to git. I have a separate function that can find all new un-indexed posts and then add them to the index
tantek, caseorganic and tantek_ joined the channel
#
tantek ben_thatmustbeme: Admin Pages? per http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Ben.thatmustbe.me#Projects
plieuse and paulcp joined the channel
#
aaronpk is the wordpress page a reasonable thing I can point to someone familiar with wordpress but doesn't do coding? http://indiewebcamp.com/Wordpress
#
tantek.com edited /edit (+291) "more dfn, AKA, Silo Examples, See Also" (view diff)
#
tantek aaronpk - that's absolutely the intent of it
#
tantek the /WordPress page should primarily be for anyone *with* WordPress installed who wants to add IndieWeb features.
#
tantek and frankly it's where I've been pointing people, and telling them, if they see anything confusing or unclear there, to please let me or this channel know
#
aaronpk great
scor joined the channel
#
tantek aaronpk, pretty sure snarfed agrees with keeping /WordPress - user-friendly like that.
#
tantek and he's been doing a lot of the work to do so
#
tantek.com edited /email_list (+7) "/* POSSE to an email list */ http" (view diff)
plieuse, chrissaad, brainTrain_, scor, barnabywalters and wolftune joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /edit (+343) "Commons Examples / Wikipedia" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /diff (+18) "r" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /diffs (+18) "r" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /change (+18) "r" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /changes (+18) "r" (view diff)
barnabywalters_ joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /edit (+536) "Open Source Examples / MediaWiki" (view diff)
manny__, wolftune, scor and paulcp joined the channel
#
@petitwilbur How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/497884790860025856)
#
tantek.com edited /edit (+1422) "Why (use-cases), Own Your Edits, View Edits From Elsewhere." (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /edit (-2) "/* View Edits From Elsewhere */ --pp" (view diff)
#
tantek Just realized I was advocating for edit posts and "own your edits" in 2011! https://twitter.com/t/status/83993337127911425
#
@t The Read Write Web is no longer sufficient. I want the Read Fork Write Merge Web. #osb11 lunch table. #diso #indieweb (ttk.me/t4CU1) (twitter.com/_/status/83993337127911425)
#
tantek (I said that in conversation at lunch with Ward Cunningham at #osbridge 2011, just before the first IndieWebCamp where he then proceeded to create the Smallest Federated Wiki)
#
tantek.com edited /repost (+660) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Proto-repost examples" (view diff)
scor and manny__ joined the channel
#
tantek what if we based a simple edit protocol based on what the Wikipedia web form UI sends over the wire?
#
aaronpk seems like a reasonable first pass
#
aaronpk I believe it sends the full doc if you click "edit" for the page
#
tantek webedit, a special kind of webmention
#
tantek aaronpk I believe that's correct
#
aaronpk it should probably be part of micropub. edit is not spec'd out there yet.
#
tantek but I think it can also do it by section number
#
aaronpk inspects mediawiki forms when editing sections
#
tantek I think it just submits the entire section
#
aaronpk <input type="hidden" value="5" name="wpSection">
#
tantek so that's just part of the target URL
#
tantek &wpSection=5
paulcp joined the channel
#
aaronpk well it's a POST, but basically the same thing
#
tantek a webmention is a POST
#
aaronpk that form gets the section number from the query string after clicking the "edit" button for the appropriate section
#
aaronpk and then the edit page contains the existing section content
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek check the URL of the Edit link
#
tantek the section number is already there
#
aaronpk that's what I mean
#
tantek as &section=1
#
tantek I'm thinking we pursue two things here
#
tantek micropub as you suggest for editing
#
tantek and second
#
tantek a simple extension to webmention for passing edits back and forth
#
tantek just as webmention is used to pass comments back and forth
#
tantek in fact I don't think we need to add anything to webmention the protocol itself at all - we might just need a new link rel
#
tantek e.g. rel="edit-of" or u-edit-of
#
tantek similar to u-like-of
#
aaronpk true!
#
tantek and the semantic of it is that the e-content has the new content intended for the target URL!
#
tantek presto
#
aaronpk I think some sort of timestamps will be necessary for this to make sense
#
aaronpk maybe just the timestamp of teh webmention
#
tantek timestamp of the original, which wikipedia hides in session cookie :/
#
tantek instead of putting it in the URL
#
aaronpk i'm imagining seeing something in my feed that says "tantek suggested an edit to your post" where I get a approve/deny buttons
#
tantek a-ha: <input type='hidden' value="20140808235523" name="wpStarttime" />
#
tantek <input type='hidden' value="20140808233059" name="wpEdittime" />
#
tantek aaronpk - I can see moderating edits by default, just like moderating comments by default
#
tantek OTOH I can also see accepting *some* people's edits by default, just like accepting some people's comments by default
#
aaronpk fun stuff
#
tantek like as I outline in Own Your Edits - Wikipedia would by default accept ALL edit post webmentions: http://indiewebcamp.com/edit#Own_Your_Edits
#
tantek since they by default accept edit form submissions from any IP
#
tantek (by default = that IP or user has not been banned)
#
tantek you wouldn't even need to login to Wikipedia
#
tantek that's my point
#
tantek no auth needed
#
tantek the protocol works without auth for the wikipedia use-case!!!
#
aaronpk ha yeah. and even better because by default you get a user ID as well! the domain name!
#
tantek you get User: ids like we already have here on indiewebcamp.com!
#
@kevinmarks @nikcub @anildash try http://indiewebcamp.com/ssl (twitter.com/_/status/497894736204541952)
#
KevinMarks_ hah
#
KevinMarks_ neat
#
tantek edit wikipedia, with a username, WITHOUT creating a password on wikipedia
#
tantek boom
#
KevinMarks_ shouldn't we start with indiewebcamp wiki?
#
tantek YES
#
tantek that's how we prove it works
#
aaronpk that would be magic
#
tantek community, federate thyself