#indiewebcamp 2014-08-18
2014-08-18 UTC
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@kevinmarks @ForeverAgile @EdwardTufte indeed. Tried that before. Finding #indieweb more productive. Cc @jobsworth (twitter.com/_/status/501176554370506752)
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davidakennedy Hi all! I'm setting up indieweb stuff on my WordPress site... Wondering if there is a best practice for self webmentions or self pings from the same site?
# davidakennedy @kylewm Thanks for the answer... Yeah, kinda hard to explain... What I mean is: You write an post, linking to another post on your site. You get something like: David Kennedy mentioned this Article on davidakennedy.com
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techlifeweb davidakennedy: I know what you mean...ends up looking something like this like this: http://techlifeweb.com/social/discovered-a-bug-in-wordpress-jetpack-publicize/
# davidakennedy techlifeweb Yeah, more or less. :)
# davidakennedy I'm still trying to decide if I want to display them, display them differently or something else...
# davidakennedy I've always found self pings a bit annoying... but useful at the same time. :)
# techlifeweb Well, let me know if you figure out a good way to do it. Just going to let it ride for now as I don't do it that often.
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@xtof_fr RT @t: #WDC14 video posted The Once and Future #IndieWeb https://www.youtube.com/ 41:48 min, CC-BY. Prev http://tantek.com/2014/122/t2/wdc14-once-future-indieweb-slides-notes (ttk.me t4Xd2) (twitter.com/_/status/501236361186521088)
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@raikilves Damn tired of investing in web services that will close down. Is the only viable solution self hosted / self made solutions? #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/501268085048115200)
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@pesla Reading into the IndieWeb "movement". Great ideas, but not accessible for non-techies at all. http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/501293228088647680)
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@olivvv RT @pesla: Reading into the IndieWeb "movement". Great ideas, but not accessible for non-techies at all. http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/501312157934706688)
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: when you gpg sign php-mf2, its the actual tag that get signed right? i.e. the commit being refenced by the tag could have been made by someone other than you
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ShaneHudson I've replaced my homescreen Twitter with my website instead :) Not sorted out POSSE on the new version yet though
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: yep, just as I can sign the complete works of william shakespeare if I wanted to
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Loqi barnabywalters: jonnybarnes left you a message on 8/16 at 5:46am: if I grab your sites sourcecode and save it in a html file and run \Mf2\parse($html); the output contains an h-feed, not the case for \Mf2\fetch('http://waterpigs.co.uk');
# jonnybarnes ah yes, I see you've already merged the PR barnabywalters
# barnabywalters you wouldn’t know that I wrote the works, but you could verify that it was indeed me who signed it
# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: yep, thanks a lot for fixing that issue!
# jonnybarnes thankfullt Parser.php isnt difficult to follow
# barnabywalters KevinMarks: argh sorry for all these bugs — try again when you’ve got a minute, I think I fixed it
# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: good to hear!
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# jonnybarnes stupid gpg question time: does the private key have an expiraion date, or just the public key? also, if I edit my public key's expiration date does the key fingerprint change?
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# barnabywalters jonnybarnes: the expiration date applies to the whole key (both private and public parts). Not sure about the second — why not create a disposable test key and try it?
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@djp1974 RT @pesla: Reading into the IndieWeb "movement". Great ideas, but not accessible for non-techies at all. http://indiewebcamp.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/501344800168091649)
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# Loqi [mention] http://bot.moldseo.info/ping/blogs.php?pg=62586 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (pingback)
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@ZiftManual #WDC14 video posted The Once and Future #IndieWeb http://oal.lu/RRpFt 41:48 min, CC-BY. Prev http://oal.lu/2AM0u (ttk.me t4Xd2) (twitter.com/_/status/501404156494905345)
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rascul hrm wikipedia says geocities is available in japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoCities
# barnabywalters the translation makes it sound like that might actually be true: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgeocities.yahoo.co.jp%2F&edit-text=
# rascul http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoCities is what i'm looking at
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tantek bret, here you go: https://github.com/aaronpk/indiewebcamp-irc-logs/issues
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tantek.com edited /IRC (+273) "/* Logs */ add suggestions subsection with link to gh issues" (view diff)
# tantek bret: now documented: http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC#Suggestions
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# tantek kylewm - I had earlier suggested at least a link at the bottom of today's log page to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=indiewebcamp&nick=indie-visitor
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# @kevinmarks “I Quit Liking Things On Facebook for Two Weeks. Here’s How It Changed My View of Humanity” by @schmutzie https://medium.com/@schmutzie/i-quit-liking-things-on-facebook-for-two-weeks-heres-how-it-changed-my-view-of-humanity-29b5102abace?source=tw-d2f50a6a3291-1408386814395 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/501436900880568321)
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KevinMarks_ !tell barnabywalters I still get the "you must be logged in" message from shrewdness. I deleted the cookie and relogged in. Could it be a www. vs bare domain problem?
# Loqi KevinMarks_: tantek left you a message on 8/16 at 9:42pm: Hey UK IndieWeb folks, propose an IndieWeb session for MozFest 2014 (in London 2014-10-24..26) http://2014.mozillafestival.org/propose/
# KevinMarks_ I'm probably not in the UK then.
# KevinMarks_ I could get Andrew to propose one, he's in London
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# barnabywalters evening
# barnabywalters KevinMarks: yep, that’s the issue — I just changed your folder to www., maybe now everything will work
# barnabywalters (and at least we got a few extra bugs sorted in the process)
# KevinMarks_ aha!
# barnabywalters KevinMarks_: I take that as an “It worked”!
# KevinMarks_ I now have a feed of aaron
# barnabywalters woo
# barnabywalters yep, aaron was the default content :) You can add more people in “settings”
# KevinMarks_ do I need to type http there?
# barnabywalters shouldn’t have to
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# barnabywalters subscribing to twitter should be done via lists to reduce the number of notifications — if you make a list of the people you want to subscribe to I can hook that up to your feed
# KevinMarks_ it only adds them if I do - make it a URL type field?
# barnabywalters KevinMarks_: which feed URL?
# barnabywalters ah yeah I see it — filing + fixing
# KevinMarks_ All I've tries so far kevinmarks.com, andrewmarks.media, tantek.com
# KevinMarks_ also, tantek says twitter.com
# barnabywalters hm I thought I fixed the tantek twitter bug
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# KevinMarks_ andrew's known site shows up nicely
# barnabywalters KevinMarks_: currently the subscription UI isn’t very helpful about showing previews, but you can see how any given page will be processed at http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test
# barnabywalters cool! Known is well marked up, so it should work nicely
# KevinMarks_ known++
# barnabywalters they’re also very responsive to bugs I file as a result of testing in shrewdness
# barnabywalters I got a bunch of boring plumbing done yesterday (automatic feed subscription renewal) so can get back on fun UI stuff now
# barnabywalters and semi-fun bugfixing
# KevinMarks_ my site, on the other hand, needs work
# KevinMarks_ as I don't have the items marked up
# barnabywalters KevinMarks_: it shouldn’t be too tricky to turn it into a perfectly good summary h-feed
# barnabywalters just h-entry, p-name, dt-published, u-url
# barnabywalters I’m also open to suggestions about how best to report subscriptions to things which don’t look like they have any h-entries on
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# KevinMarks_ and I have crappy dates with no TZ because I suck
# KevinMarks_ :D
# barnabywalters timezone++
# barnabywalters arbitraryconceptkarma++
# KevinMarks_ actually, they're just dates, not times, so thats OK, kinda
# KevinMarks_ so I need to add a span for the date, I suppose <h3 class="h-entry"><a href="hwc2014-08-13.html">Homebrew Website Club notes</a> 2014-08-13</h3>
# barnabywalters KevinMarks_: either a span or a <time> element
# barnabywalters (not forgetting class=“p-name u-url” on the <a> element)
# KevinMarks_ oh, I added those
# KevinMarks_ I should omit?
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# barnabywalters well, the name will be the contents of the entire <h3> so will include the date too — if that’s intended, then they can be left implied
# barnabywalters Loqi is apparently quite passionate about implied microformats
# KevinMarks_ true
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# barnabywalters Loqi: steady on
# KevinMarks_ otherwise they're all the same name
# barnabywalters yeah, good idea to leave it in then
# barnabywalters from zero to h-feed in 51 characters/1 element + 2 attributes
# barnabywalters tantek: agreed — I’ve been wondering if similar implied parsing could be done deriving the name from the first <hX> element too
# KevinMarks_ I have undated ones, will that confuse you Barnaby?
# barnabywalters you could potentially mark up this entire summary h-entry with one class attribute
# barnabywalters even if the date was separate from the name
# barnabywalters KevinMarks_: if they’re h-entries with no datetime whatsoever (which is a bit weird) then shrewdness will just assume they were published the first time it sees them
# KevinMarks_ well, I could add dates
# KevinMarks_ though Code and Personality should be 1998
# barnabywalters tantek: yeah I was meaning to build a tool which would go over my archive and compare the results of existing p-name parsing with how it would work if there was no explicit p-name but hx:first-of-type was in place
# barnabywalters TOO MANY THINGS TO DO
# KevinMarks_ makes month-oly dats as I'm lazy
# barnabywalters hm, not sure how PHP’s datetime parsing will interpret that — possibly as week numbers or day numbers
# barnabywalters nope, looks like it treats XXXX-XX as year-month by default
# KevinMarks_ it assumes I meant september 1st
# KevinMarks_ though for the bare year one it picks today's date for the rest of it
# barnabywalters KevinMarks_: nice work on http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kevinmarks.com%2F! there are a couple of markup and styling bugs in my code, I’ll get onto those right after implementing subscription removal
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# KevinMarks_ tantek doesn't get a face
# barnabywalters nope, there are some unresolved bugs parsing tantek.com
# KevinMarks_ hm, my posts aren't showing up in my reader on shrewdness
# KevinMarks_ caching?
# barnabywalters KevinMarks_: it *might* be to do with your www. redirect and the way I’m querying for posts to show in each column
# barnabywalters try explicitly subscribing to www.kevinmarks.com
# KevinMarks_ now it works and I'm subscribed twice
# KevinMarks_ oops
# KevinMarks_ waits for unsibscribe to work
# KevinMarks_ :D
# barnabywalters working on that now :)
# KevinMarks_ and after subscribing I need to refresh the page to see the new entries
# barnabywalters KevinMarks_: can you raise an issue for that (and any other bugs/annoyances not yet filed)? https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness
# KevinMarks_ http://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=tantek.com shows an author but no name or photo
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# barnabywalters thanks for raising the issue! Subscription removal now implemented, breaking for gnocci.
# barnabywalters bbiab
# KevinMarks_ oops, now it broke
# tantek I wonder if /authorship for a page with a feed should check the page itself for a representative h-card
# KevinMarks_ seems like a common case
# KevinMarks_ is mine working because I put hfeed on <body>, so the hcard is inside it?
# tantek barnabywalters: right now per 5.2 of http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship#Determining that <a class="u-author" href="/"></a> inside each h-entry should cause shrewdnesss to look-up my top level h-card on tantek.com which has url==uid==homepage and an icon and use that.
# KevinMarks_ no
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cuibonobo hey barnabywalters: i just wanted to drop in to say that i get "You must be logged in to view this page." when i log in with https://jenmontes.com
# KevinMarks_ !tell benwerd, barnabywaters not sure who's got it wrong, but JS is showing up in known checkins on shrewdness: https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness/issues/20
# KevinMarks_ cuibonobo: try deleting your cookie and relogging in
# KevinMarks_ I had a www issue with it
# KevinMarks_ barnabywalters just patched it and it works for me
# KevinMarks_ but I had to delete the cookie and relogin
# KevinMarks_ hm
# KevinMarks_ barnaby can look when he's had his gnocci
# KevinMarks_ my underscored name gets no face :(
# KevinMarks_ (In the logs)
# tantek KevinMarks_: see /IRC#Suggestions and file an issue ;)
# cuibonobo !tell barnabywalters this is just a guess, but I think my login to shrewdness is failing because you're converting https URLs to http: https://github.com/Taproot/authentication/blob/9e0ff859c10e583ecdf1379ba7c8221ff9babd4f/src/authentication.php#L319
# barnabywalters cuibonobo: ah, actually that’s because at this point I have to manually make new accounts — you should be able to sign in now!
# Loqi barnabywalters: cuibonobo left you a message 4 minutes ago: this is just a guess, but I think my login to shrewdness is failing because you're converting https URLs to http: https://github.com/Taproot/authentication/blob/9e0ff859c10e583ecdf1379ba7c8221ff9babd4f/src/authentication.php#L319
# KevinMarks_ realised he typod barnaby's name
# barnabywalters cuibonobo: also, I’m impressed at how fast you found that code :)
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@gasull RT @kevinmarks: “It’s everything I have learned to love about Tumblr, with the bonus of being open source…” http://bavatuesdays.com/teaching-without-wordpress-exploring-the-known-world/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/501483678300930049)
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# tantek.com edited /authorship (+1676) "add use case Name avatar display in a reader, including Unhandled Examples, and proposal to Fallback to page representative h-card" (view diff)
# tantek barnabywalters, KevinMarks: http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship#Name_avatar_display_in_a_reader , specifically, see and add to: http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship#Unhandled_Examples
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# tantek KevinMarks: that article you linked is a fascinating critique more of the FB algorithmic newsfeed than it is the "like" action or liking of posts in general: https://medium.com/@schmutzie/i-quit-liking-things-on-facebook-for-two-weeks-heres-how-it-changed-my-view-of-humanity-29b5102abace
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# KevinMarks It is indeed. Algorithms change perception.
# KevinMarks I need to write my twitter rant
# KevinMarks Also today https://earlyclaim.com/ is a name space squat bot
# KevinMarks The one from hwc about twitter breaking their core following model in the cause of engagement
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@cpasmoicmurphy IndieWebCamp 2014 — Thoughts Before The Gathering: http://tantek.com/2014/179/b1/indiewebcamp-thoughts-before-gathering via @t (twitter.com/_/status/501494498229112833)
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@hugoroyd @etixxx instead of disqus you might want to test something more like the web ;-) see http://webmention.herokuapp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/501494733089144834)
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# KevinMarks There's money. A bot that registers your name on every new tld
# KevinMarks See also Check out @cameo's Tweet: https://twitter.com/cameo/status/501452647165997056
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@cameo Pro tip: Don’t call someone a motherfucker when you are asking for their twitter handle. @SofyanBoudouni https://twitter.com/cameo/status/501452647165997056/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/501452647165997056)
# barnabywalters any ideas why .editable-column:last-of-type is returning null rather than the last element matching .editable-column?
# barnabywalters all of the .editable-column elements are children of the same elemnt
# barnabywalters ah so “type” in this context refers to the type of element, rather than the selector
# barnabywalters that’s always confused me — thanks for the clarification tantek
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# barnabywalters the docs for nth-last-of-type are clearer https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/:nth-last-of-type — I’ll edit the more vague ones
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KartikPrabhu type = tag name yes?
# KartikPrabhu yeah that name has confused me i the past. I always check the docs before using it :P
# barnabywalters what is the correct terminology here? element name? tag name?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "the correct terminology here? element name? tag name" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=the+correct+terminology+here%3F+element+name%3F+tag+name
# barnabywalters element/tag type?
# barnabywalters lol Loqi
# KartikPrabhu barnabywalters: I think tag-name is what I have read that being refered to
# KartikPrabhu errr.. sorry my bad English I am French ;)
# barnabywalters yeah, that would be good
# barnabywalters I’m going to go with “element name”, in lieu of more accurate terminology
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# Loqi benwerd: KevinMarks_ left you a message 1 hour, 35 minutes ago: not sure who's got it wrong, but JS is showing up in known checkins on shrewdness: https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness/issues/20
# KartikPrabhu benwerd: KevinMarks: the JS showing up in contents happens at the mf2-parsing stage as pointed out earlier by kylewm
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# barnabywalters benwerd: RE: RDF webmentions: sure, it could be used, just as classic microformats, microdata, open graph elements etc. could be used
# barnabywalters (whispers) he’s onto us!
# Loqi [mention] http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4XfNum/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (webmention)
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@BarnabyWalters @briansuda enable webmention comments + bridgy for twitter comments! Barely any spam that way (yet… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4XfNum/ (twitter.com/_/status/501502522105004032)
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@etixxx @hugoroyd interesting, I didn't know Webmention existed. I'll check this out. (twitter.com/_/status/501503892916416512)
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aaronpk tantek: KevinMarks: what do you think about having a way to list alternate nicks on the http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people page?
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# KevinMarks_ better than the hack I'm doing
# KevinMarks_ yay
# KevinMarks_ will that handle aaronpk____
# KevinMarks_ etc?
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# KevinMarks_ doesn't remember PHP functions
# tantek__________ you mean like this KevinMarks?
# KevinMarks_ long tail use cases
# tantek bret - we're not quite there yet. see and edit /irc-people
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bret.io edited /IRC_People (+70) "/* Nicknames */ Added my pretty face to the irc logs" (view diff)
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mko bret: Yeah. I wrote a Passport.js Strategy for IndieAuth when I did my rewrite of https://mowens.com -- it's available on NPM at https://www.npmjs.org/package/passport-indieauth
# bret.io edited /IRC_People (-2) "/* Nicknames */ Last image url didn't seem to work. How about this?" (view diff)
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# KevinMarks_ I asume aaronpk knows
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# Loqi [mention] https://mowens.com/notes/2014/07/01/2/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
# Loqi [mention] https://mowens.com/notes/2014/07/01/2/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Mowens.com (webmention)
# tantek mko - still, awesome as it is, definitely add it to http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#IndieWeb_Examples with a screenshot of even what you have today - looks really good!
# KevinMarks_ aaronpk++ for the next link in the footer of logs
# KevinMarks_ I bet mine will confuse it too