#indiewebcamp 2014-09-26

2014-09-26 UTC
mdik, tecgirl1, Mark87_, KartikPrabhu, verdi and cmhobbs joined the channel
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@hobsonlane Like #privacy *and* #social. Check out ello manifesto: https://ello.co/manifesto and then check out http://indiewebcamp.com/ for an indie option. (twitter.com/_/status/515310918498922496)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I have a feeling the design of Ello is in a lot of flux. Also I have a theory. Could you upload a screenshot illustrating the bad monospace font?
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KartikPrabhu on it
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I am just annoyed that they went out of their way to make everything look "shiny" and did not use a readable font first
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tantek indeed. classic designery move.
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rascul ello is way too much monospace
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rascul not so much that it's a bad font imo just that it's too much monospace
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KartikPrabhu tantek: https://kartikprabhu.com/static/images/ello-post.jpg
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KartikPrabhu rascul: monspace with tiny font size is horrible
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rascul doesn't seem too small to me, maybe because my screen is bigger
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tantek KartikPrabhu: can you embed/reference on the issue on the /Ello page? Feel free to upload to the wiki too (unless you prefer to keep the image URL on your own domain)
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KartikPrabhu sure I can upload it
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rascul it is harder for me on the laptop
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rascul which has a smaller screen than the desktop
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KartikPrabhu rascul: yup. hence monospace for reading is a bad idea
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Mark87_ its weird but I kind of like it
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rascul i don't dislike monospace, i just feel like there's too much of it there
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Mark87_ its got some sort of retro look
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Mark87_ feel rather
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kartikprabhu.com uploaded /File:ello-post.jpg "sample ello post with the said monospace font. Font declaration: "AtlasTypewriterRegular","Andale Mono","Consolas","Lucida Console","Menlo","Luxi Mono",monospace"
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rascul monospaces on rascul.io
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tantek "retro look" - that sounds like designery rather than usability
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Mark87_ rascul your titles are monospace if im not mistaken
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rascul also needs to work more on rascul.io...
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Mark87_ looks cool
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rascul Mark87_ titles are
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rascul rest of them are sans
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rascul i have a very hard time reading sans serif on screen
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kartikprabhu.com edited /Ello (+189) "/* Unreadable Font */ screenshot and font details" (view diff)
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rascul i prefer sans serif on paper though
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KartikPrabhu monospace on title font is fine. Big letters are not hard to read.
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Mark87_ theres a lot of criticism of ello in the wiki. doesn't anyone have anything nice to say?
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KartikPrabhu i've used monospace before too see: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/line-mode the titles and quotes are monospaced
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rascul for normal text though i generally feel monospace isn't good
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KartikPrabhu Mark87_ : is it looks shiny a good thing?
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Mark87_ lol yes, im just worried by setting ourselves against it we'll see another misguided backlash like the database thing
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rascul i never really saw anything good from ello, it's just another silo that's gonna be big for a bit then either get bigger or go away
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KartikPrabhu Mark87_: if you like something particularly UI design stuff do add to that page
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rascul if it gets bigger it's gonna have some of the same issues as facebook, twitter, g+, etc
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KartikPrabhu but for now, I see a lot of shiny, and transitions without readability so...
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Mark87_ you know, maybe I just like it because I stare at monospaced code all day
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tantek.com edited /form-encoded (+93) "conten type, note "form-encoded" is a shorthand" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /JSON (+34) "/* Accepting JSON POST requests */ main, linky" (view diff)
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markmurfin.com edited /Ello (+325) (view diff)
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kylewm rascul: did you really mean to say y ou prefer sans serif on paper but serif on the screen? isn't that backwards?
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: with the advent of hi-def screens (well-designed) serif looks very good on screens too
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rascul kylewm erm i dunno now i'm confused, i probably drank too much beer to talk about fonts
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KartikPrabhu rascul: good idea ;)
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rascul arial = screen, times new roman = paper
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KartikPrabhu yeah kylewm your guess was right
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kylewm woohoo, someone was wrong on the internet but i fixed it
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rascul :)
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rascul thinks about xkcd...
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kylewm takes off pedant hat
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Mark87_ I've been running a mail server for 2 days now that hasn't received any spam. And it accepts emails on any address. ANY
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rascul i've been runnain a mail server for months that hasn't received any spam, also accept all emails
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rascul *running
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Mark87_ pfft who said spam was a problem
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KartikPrabhu Mark87_ wait for a year :)
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rascul my mail server on rascul.io sucks up anything @rascul.io, but i usually tell people my address is root@rascul.io just to see the reactions i get
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kylewm hah, the spam problem with running a mail server is not with receiving it
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kylewm but sending it
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Mark87_ lol
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tantek.com created /JSON_form_encoded (+1134) "stub with dfn, use plain form-encoded instead, issues, see also" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu anomalily doesnot accept fragmentioned webmentions :(
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: nor webmentions in general, right?
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tantek.com created /cargo_cult (+36) "r" (view diff)
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kylewm ohhh I was wrong
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I seem to be getting a 400 "Source URL not found"
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KartikPrabhu even after I edited the URL here: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/zine-indieweb
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kylewm.com edited /Micropub (+389) "/* Nested Microformat Objects */" (view diff)
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@kartik_prabhu Great article @anomalily Reminds me of the following quote by @craigmod “The web is undeniably one of the..." more: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/zine-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515327749188116480)
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KartikPrabhu !tell anomalily: my webmention from https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/zine-indieweb to your article gives a 400 Source URL not found. even when I remove the funny fragmention from the in-reply-to URL
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu wonders if the more... thingy is annoying to people on Twitter and if they prefer multi-tweets instead?
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kylewm I think she must've added webmentions stuff last night
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parzzix good evening
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: possible. Well my prolific fragmention replying hpoefully nudges people to add it on their sites :)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: depends on the person I think. Document what people say.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: no one has called me out on it. But then probably only 3 people outside the indieweb read my tweets anyway :)
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tantek yeah I documented all the ways people didn't like my permashortlinks
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tantek e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/permashortcitation#When_instead_of_permashortlinks
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tantek bbiab
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: I don't think anybody will ever say that they like ... more: links on twitter
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kylewm (maybe unless the alternative is more than 3-4 tweets)
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kylewm but that is pure speculation
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KartikPrabhu hates muti-tweets so whatever, it is Twitter's fault anyway indieweb++
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KartikPrabhu hi parzzix how goes the indiewebbing?
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parzzix KartikPrabhu, good, I have known working fairly well now.
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parzzix Does brid.gy only look for comments on posts I made from my site...what if I tweet directly from twitter..is there a way to pull that to my known?
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KartikPrabhu parzzix: if there is no original post on Known then bridgy doesn't know where to pull in comments
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parzzix gotcha KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu so I would either POSSE all the tweets (because why not) or PESOS a copy back to Known ( don't know if this is possible in Known yet )
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KartikPrabhu in fact since I added "notes" to my site, I exclusively POSSE everything. Twitter always only gets a copy
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parzzix Gotcha KartikPrabhu , but what if you are replying to another persons tweets?
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KartikPrabhu I do them like this: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/indieweb-beyond-blog :)
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KartikPrabhu i think Known can do that too
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KartikPrabhu it is a bit tedious. Would be good to hijack Twitter's Reply button. I think barnabywalters wrote a webaction toolbelt thingy that possibly does this
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KartikPrabhu parzzix: https://waterpigs.co.uk/articles/web-action-toolbelt-guide/ unknown to me if Known supports this
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parzzix hmmm..interesting KartikPrabhu ...time to study up a little
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KartikPrabhu parzzix: this is a bit that could be made smoother, but it is at least something to adjust to the silos
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parzzix I think for now, if really important I will cut an paste from twitter if I need to..other way i'll just posse my own tweets
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parzzix super sleepy today...going to sleep..everyone have a good night.
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Loqi night
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@kevinmarks well, @gasull @ScottBeale @quinnnorton diaspora is still a monoculture http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture You want protocols with multiple implementers (twitter.com/_/status/515344444317765632)
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KartikPrabhu updated site to use new u-featured in article feed :)
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bret What if the apprentice differentiation emphasized pairing more? IE:have a site by still feel really new to everything? Sign up as an apprentice to pair with someone for the conference.
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KartikPrabhu bret: doesn't it already do that?
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bret KartikPrabhu: it does, but maybe maybe we can make it more of an offer.
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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bret Given that it's been a source I criticism at uk
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bret If course, depending on who's willing to do it.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/515344444317765632/4593131 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu ehh well here is my take on that criticism: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/499314196769566720
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@kartik_prabhu If a lowly physicist can just walk into @indiewebcamp and call himself a ‘creator’, then anyone working on the Web surely can! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/499314196769566720)
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KartikPrabhu but don't let me stop you from editing
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kylewm I liked what they did at UK mixing the guest lists for apprentices and participants together
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@scottjenson @jonathanstark @mattg I'm still very much in support of the #IndieWeb so I don't want to hand over the keys, but I can wish for better (twitter.com/_/status/515350076802088961)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/515344444317765632/515354978731716608 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (webmention)
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@danlyke @sungo right now I'm polling other RSS feeds for back links. Others are experimenting with WebMention. (twitter.com/_/status/515356751214833664)
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KartikPrabhu interesting article (forgot to #indieweb it) http://alwaysreadthemanual.com/issues/4/wilson-miner/article
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/515344444317765632/515365392487682049 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (webmention)
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@gasull @embolalia @kevinmarks @ScottBeale @quinnnorton Known is a monoculture and it's centralized http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (twitter.com/_/status/515368506246701056)
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@kevinmarks @embolalia @gasull @ScottBeale @quinnnorton @withknown is part of an #indieweb solution, but doesn't have a reader (twitter.com/_/status/515368651772280833)
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@krynsky Nice to see Interest in the #indieweb getting attention recently with press for https://ello.co/ & @withknown (twitter.com/_/status/515368681124028416)
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kylewm whut
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KartikPrabhu yay! ello == indieweb!
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Loqi :D
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@kevinmarks @gasull @embolalia @ScottBeale @quinnnorton @withknown implements multiple #indieweb protocols and interoperates. It's open source too (twitter.com/_/status/515369002328027136)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/515344444317765632/515356181125427200 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/515344444317765632/515368651772280833 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/515344444317765632/515369002328027136 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (webmention)
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@kartik_prabhu @krynsky I doubt if ello can be considered #indieweb unless I can host it on my own servers… @withknown can be… (https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/ello-note-indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/515370063646298112)
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KartikPrabhu here I go picking arguments in the middle of the night again
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KevinMarks__ Reading scrollback
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/515344444317765632/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu lot of ello indieweb tweets
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KartikPrabhu hey that went well https://twitter.com/krynsky/status/515372030254776322
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@krynsky @kartik_prabhu @withknown true. I mistakenly did attribute it. Thanks for pointing out the distinction. (twitter.com/_/status/515372030254776322)
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KevinMarks__ On the form-encoded thing I thought there was a well defined way to send multiple of the same field
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KevinMarks__ ?field=val1&field=val2&field=val3
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KartikPrabhu me too. haven't looked into it though
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kylewm KevinMarks__: my first attempt at parsing that with php was unsuccessful
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kylewm but I know almost nothing about php
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KartikPrabhu https://twitter.com/waxpancake/status/515290247567921152 see image
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@waxpancake Ello *might* want to rethink their “fail-safe method” of holding themselves accountable to their community. https://twitter.com/waxpancake/status/515290247567921152/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/515290247567921152)
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kylewm i.e. php > parse_str("field=val1&field=val2&field=val3", $results);
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kylewm php > var_dump($results);
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kylewm array(1) {
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kylewm ["field"]=>
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kylewm string(4) "val3"
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kylewm }
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kylewm
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KevinMarks__ Python has getfirst and getlist https://docs.python.org/2/library/cgi.html#cgi.FieldStorage.getfirst
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kylewm regular old urlparse.parse_qs works fine too
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks__: is there a link to the form-encoded spec? that might be useful too
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: yup!
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KartikPrabhu from: https://ello.co/wtf/post/why-no-ads "To make this crystal-clear to everyone, we've put a very obvious DELETE ACCOUNT link on every user's settings page. If you ever don't like the direction Ello is heading, we invite you to delete your Ello account. Of course, we'd prefer you to stay a part of our community, so please send comments and ideas to hello@ello.co." yeah very nice
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kylewm don't let the door hit you on the way out
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KevinMarks__ Export might be nicer.
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KevinMarks__ Should I make ello.unmung.com?
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KartikPrabhu oh boy! KevinMarks__ do you really need to cater to upcoming silos?
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KartikPrabhu also: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/515375243502702592
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@kartik_prabhu @krynsky @withknown just to note that ello doesn’t even have self-hosting in their list of to-dos. https://ello.co/wtf/post/about (twitter.com/_/status/515375243502702592)
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KartikPrabhu and an interesting new pattern from that ello/about page is : @@ Private Messaging
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KartikPrabhu or better: https://ello.co/wtf/post/featurelist
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kou heh
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kou that the URL is /wtf/ tells me everything i need to know. hipster-retard level product
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KartikPrabhu kou: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/hipster-blanket-term
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kou words like "omnibar" and "emoji" and "fluid grid" mean nothing to me, and likely anyone outside of some bayarea design-circle
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kou haha, nice citation, you are prepared
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kou well, it's like "Easter eggs". someone who's 22 and writing JS professoinaly for the first time thinks it's "cool" or "non-corporate" that they can put abbreviations for "what the fuck" in a URL. as someone who's been trolling USENET since 1989 i just have to laugh
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kou in fact, one could say i was trolling USENET before it was cool. but i really dont want to mention this for fear of soundlike a "hipster"
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kou anwyays yes, see this #ello thing a ton today
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KevinMarks__ Emoji are pretty mainstream
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KartikPrabhu kou: fluid girds are key to responsive design
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KartikPrabhu maybe responsice is also hipster
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kylewm no rss/atom feed
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KevinMarks__ We did ship a wtf feature at technorati shortly before I left. The pm claimed it stood for "Where's The Fire?"
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KevinMarks__ If ello was actually responsive that would be nice
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks__ it is on their to-do feature list. but yeah responsive first
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KartikPrabhu retro-fitting to be responsive is plain bad
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KartikPrabhu or at least hard
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KevinMarks__ I tried using it on phone and tablet first before realising that it had that bootstrap smell
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KartikPrabhu checks if ello is readable at all on a phone
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KartikPrabhu bootstrap--
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Loqi bootstrap has -1 karma
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KartikPrabhu making devs lazy since 20.??
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KevinMarks__ You have to know to swipe on the 3 dots on the bottom to get the actual content
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks__ at lest on homepage scrolling works for me. on profiles it seems you have to swipe to the side. some clunky JS running to make that happen... ergh
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kou whatever happened w/ App.net, was hard to believe people were funding a closed-source product so radily
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KartikPrabhu wow... I can't find a good thing to say about ello! their monospace is even harder to read on mobile
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kou unchecked "allow websites to use fonts other than these" long ago
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kou fonts.googleapis.com is a crucial /etc/hosts entry too. otherwise they track virutally every page-load anymore
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KevinMarks__ I have a >400dpi screen, all fonts are legible on it
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks__ legible != good no?
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KartikPrabhu kou: unfortunate. you can't read any of my nicely webfonted experiments
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KevinMarks__ The quarter size screen grabs in the app switching menu are still legible
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kou space-pagedown is broken until clipping post-iframe(orwhatever). that takes skill
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kou tho google+ and googledocs both seemed to break the same thing lately. nobody cares about keyboardusers anymore apparently
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kou swipe this, swipe that
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kou ive given up on JS/cookie whitelisting. too much stuff is broken or gets into infinite-reload-loops anymore without both. i think some of the remaining breakage issues are due to blocked analyticsscripts/spyware bubbling-up exceptions that prevent other non-ad UI JS from ever running
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kou a lot of it probably just iOS/Macbook-centrism w/ regards to testing the UIs
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KartikPrabhu that is why we have progressive enancement
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@xtof_fr "Intranet des objets" / #ownyourdata : la @wikihouse 4.0 cherche des bénévoles ce weekend et sem. prochaine á .. http://xtof.withknown.com/2014/intranet-des-objets-ownyourdata-la-wikihouse-40-cherche-des-bnvoles (twitter.com/_/status/515384099477786624)
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werd.io edited /Known (-63) "/* Releases */" (view diff)
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@deburca Is Ello #indieweb? https://ello.co/waxpancake/post/oy73kFfDdhOPh8Jv9z9pFA (not even sure what #indieweb means anymore, going the way of "open") /via @aral (twitter.com/_/status/515397092060463104)
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werd.io edited /Known (+87) "/* Goals & Model */" (view diff)
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werd.io edited /Known (-5) "/* Development */" (view diff)
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werd.io edited /Known (+131) "/* Goals & Model */" (view diff)
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werd.io edited /Known (+118) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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@clarkenciel RT @matdryhurst: @TCF6edfsdf4c7e7 @MXEXSXH eggsactly. Personally more excited about @withknown #indieweb syndication model (twitter.com/_/status/515402836222291968)
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@benwerd Thanks to @mapkyca, I have a new #POSSE destination. #indieweb http://twitter.com/benwerd/status/515405561156747264/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/515405561156747264)
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@kevinmarks RT @matdryhurst: @TCF6edfsdf4c7e7 @MXEXSXH eggsactly. Personally more excited about @withknown #indieweb syndication model (twitter.com/_/status/515405622242603008)
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@kevinmarks RT @benwerd: Thanks to @mapkyca, I have a new #POSSE destination. #indieweb http://twitter.com/benwerd/status/515405561156747264/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/515405775108186112)
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@alanpearceuk RT @benwerd: Thanks to @mapkyca, I have a new #POSSE destination. #indieweb http://twitter.com/benwerd/status/515405561156747264/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/515409038683930624)
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/snipeyhead/status/515408613163433984
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@snipeyhead When nerds in a relationship fight, shit gets ugly. https://twitter.com/snipeyhead/status/515408613163433984/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/515408613163433984)
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@kevinmarks @deburca #indieweb has a pretty well defined set of principles. http://indiewebcamp.com/Principles How does ello fit them? Not well (twitter.com/_/status/515415662769225728)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/515415662769225728/9755892 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/515415662769225728/515415982635249664 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks nice reply to @deburca
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petermolnar good morning indieweb
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@marccoop3r @Documentally they're bringing domain mapping to the platform soon. It has backing of @IndieWebCampUK so good enough for me (twitter.com/_/status/515424778916986880)
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KartikPrabhu morning petermolnar
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ShaneHudson Good morning everyone :)
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petermolnar I have a generic, not-just-indie question on post tagging: I use categories for the structure of the site ( having very different topics requires this ) and currently rethinking my tagging style. The options are: a) hashtag-style crazyness of all related things; b) keywords style tagging; c) less-generic categories-like tagging
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petermolnar I wonder who goes with which
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ShaneHudson I think I use b (if I understand your meaning). But I'm not happy with how my tagging works so thinking about going nearer C
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petermolnar that's exactly the same situation I have at the moment :)
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@Documentally @marccoop3r @IndieWebCampUK I need apps. Not websites ;) (twitter.com/_/status/515427443407355904)
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ShaneHudson On the otherhand, I think adactio also uses b and I often navigate his site via tags
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: not really sure about what a. b. c. mean specially for a reader. but I have trouble with tags an diff. topics too
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ShaneHudson On my new site, I no longer have categories at all. Just types (articles, notes, links) and tags
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petermolnar b) and c) is very similar, but c) is a bit more restrictive
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petermolnar ShaneHudson that is very good approach to be honest
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ShaneHudson The only tags I really use are travel and indieweb, and occasionally code. Definitely doesn't feel set up correctly
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: hashtags-style tagging is useful if done with caution
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petermolnar useful on some silos, but if you can combine it with fulltext search it's meaningless, in my opinion
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: don't combine it with fulltext search on your website then
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ShaneHudson Oh, if you mean b has full-text search then I'm using c
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petermolnar currently I'm trying to reduce the number of tags on my site, as it's nearly the same number as the number of posts
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ShaneHudson Lol
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petermolnar so
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petermolnar I need ~generic tags ( example: mailserver ok, postfix ok, but that sould be enough, I don't need policyd as well ) and search option in the elements tagged with that
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petermolnar that is why I was thinking to go with c)
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ShaneHudson Or you could use full-text search against a list of tags. That way adding a new tag doesn't require adding to each post
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KartikPrabhu tag recommendations
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petermolnar do we have a page for that?
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ShaneHudson http://indiewebcamp.com/tag
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petermolnar nice
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KartikPrabhu wouldbe nice to have tag suggestions in micropub client
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@Ritzricky11 Plz If any girl who wanna become a pop singer plz don't kill your dream :-) I am just like you #India #indieweb #Indians #GirlMeetsWorld (twitter.com/_/status/515455200723599360)
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KartikPrabhu ha lol ^
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jjuran haha
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Loqi hehe
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ben_thatmust haha, i don't think that they quite know what indieweb is
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KartikPrabhu indieweb to mean India web is kinda lame
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kou #bollyweb
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@shapeadv #Seo intervista a Brian Dean, guru del link building #indieweb #SEM http://growthhackers.com/an-interview-with-link-building-expert-brian-dean/?utm_content=buffercdc64&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/515466604680065024)
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@dkernohan @patlockley I'm still liking the POSSE model, and think that Known is starting to make this viable. Webmention is a fine, fine thing. (twitter.com/_/status/515468361938259968)
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@dkernohan @patlockley next stage of POSSE is aggregation of what is shared + webmentions. In an aggregator whereever you want. (twitter.com/_/status/515470874850656257)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/515415662769225728/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (webmention)
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@billchristian @chuckjob so is this apart of #indieweb ? (twitter.com/_/status/515482577768292352)
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@gregburd RT @_jared: “Using databases for the primary storage of your content is a known antipattern.” well then. http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern Thanks @… (twitter.com/_/status/515491169078239232)
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@BillSeitz . @kevinmarks does IndieWeb have WebMention/PingBack just for LikeButton that post-host-server can aggregate? (twitter.com/_/status/515491935339827200)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/515344444317765632/515491935339827200 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (webmention)
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ShaneHudson Has anyone POSSEd to facebook photos including tagging?
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ShaneHudson People tagging
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@slyphon RT @_jared: “Using databases for the primary storage of your content is a known antipattern.” well then. http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern Thanks @… (twitter.com/_/status/515497121920090112)
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@vranac RT @_jared: “Using databases for the primary storage of your content is a known antipattern.” well then. http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern Thanks @… (twitter.com/_/status/515497489525641217)
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petermolnar oh, come on, not that again...
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ShaneHudson That's the problem with twitter retweets
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ShaneHudson Did you see my pm btw?
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petermolnar sorry, checking
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@JustStormy A Domain of One's own #ownyourdata #wcfc14 https://umwdomains.com/details/ (twitter.com/_/status/515497979265179648)
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ShaneHudson That sounds interesting, "the project allows UMW students, faculty, and staff to register their own domain name and associate it with a space on a UMW-managed Web server"
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, what is this the third or forth wave of those retweets
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ben_thatmustbeme the /database-antipattern one that is
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ben_thatmustbeme although at least that one is somewhat neutral. the only comment is "well then" its not like the stay away from these people they will turn you evil
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ShaneHudson Yeah, people don't realise that it isn't an indieweb principle though. Most of us do use databases, it is just a warning really that databases are not long-term viable in the same way text is
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ben_thatmustbeme which is really true, i made sure to note my own personal experience on /longevity
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@AvantLifeGuard #FridayReads #mustread #amwriting #indieweb best by b. sting http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/makeover-games-b-sting/1117561642?ean=2940045485784 (twitter.com/_/status/515501793682685952)
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ben_thatmustbeme "http://btmb.me/s/1u
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ben_thatmustbeme I'd love input, i know i need to re-write the paragraph about indieauth
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ben_thatmustbeme http://btmb.me/s/1v < just did a quick rewrite of that section
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tommorris ben_thatmustbeme: good work. :)
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ben_thatmustbeme thanks, i'm going to post is live and posse this afternoon
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ben_thatmustbeme so any edits welcome
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petermolnar you might want to link a few things, like the site death wiki page, just make the statement stronger on how services disappear
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petermolnar by the way, there is an ugly issue with one of the bases if indieweb and that is that technically, we all just rent our domains :/
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ShaneHudson Absolutely true, but nothing we can do about that sadly
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ShaneHudson And domains do get stolen (css-tricks for example)
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ShaneHudson Every time Gary Vaynerchuk mentions 'your blog vs elsewhere' I just scream 'indie web'
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ben_thatmustbeme http://btmb.me/s/1w [v4]
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@djp1974 @Inkybat but they still own your content and it's even less open programmatically than FB - @withknown is the only #indieweb social network (twitter.com/_/status/515513212897226752)
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tommorris petermolnar: the Namecoin folks say they are gonna solve that. I'm still waiting.
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petermolnar I've heard about that, all I can say is I want to believe
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tommorris You can register a Namecoin now. The website I found that sells them requires an OpenID to login...
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tommorris I wonder if you can login with an OpenID on a website with a Namecoin .bit domain. Because that'd be hilarious.
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petermolnar what is namecoin?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "namecoin" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=namecoin
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dlyke tommorris, petermolnar: tuned in late & web IRC logs haven't caught up yet, but I believe that the value of online identity will be built by reputation, not spent compute.
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tommorris may or may not give an indieweb session at #barcamplondon this weekend.
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petermolnar tommorris will have a Schrödinger moment at barcamp?
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tommorris Heh. More, need to work out whether or not to run that or something else.
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@AwkwardGirlLA Thank you so much for retweeting my webseries link! #indieweb #indiefilm @LA_LiftOffFest (twitter.com/_/status/515522477254901760)
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ben_thatmustbeme drops a pin
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cuibonobo *crickets*
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ben_thatmustbeme i think #indieweb is getting usurped
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reedstrm huh?
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reedstrm I think it's Friday ...
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ben_thatmustbeme thats the second #indieweb link today that didn't have to do with indieweb
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@AwkwardGirlLA Thank you so much for retweeting my webseries link! #indieweb #indiefilm @LA_LiftOffFest (twitter.com/_/status/515522477254901760)
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@AvantLifeGuard #FridayReads #mustread #amwriting #indieweb best by b. sting http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/makeover-games-b-sting/1117561642?ean=2940045485784 (twitter.com/_/status/515501793682685952)
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ben_thatmustbeme oh and this great one
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@Ritzricky11 Plz If any girl who wanna become a pop singer plz don't kill your dream :-) I am just like you #India #indieweb #Indians #GirlMeetsWorld (twitter.com/_/status/515455200723599360)
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dlyke "indie" does have a certain 1980s alt rock early '90s grunge vibe to it...
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ben_thatmustbeme depends on age i think
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dlyke And, as someone just commented on my Ello post wondering why I bothered: "You're here to prop up your indie cred, like all the rest of us!"
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ben_thatmustbeme older groups may think of harrison ford
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dlyke That's Indy.
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ben_thatmustbeme or race cars
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ben_thatmustbeme hehe
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reedstrm ah not #indieweb the IRC channel, but #indieweb the hashtag.
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reedstrm slaps forhead #indiewebcamp channel ...
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dlyke Yeah, the "camp" gets me regularly.
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kylewm #indieweb has been used by "independent television web series" people for a while, but it doesn't make much sense
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@r0bl0rd Ello is anti-pattern, but digital sovereignty isn't. http://indiewebcamp.com/antipatterns (twitter.com/_/status/515544711592161280)
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@helloanselm #nightly14 Q: @aral, what moment led you to fight for indieweb and even sell your house on it? (twitter.com/_/status/515550157396774912)
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ben_thatmustbeme very calm day
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@helloanselm #nightly14 @aral when do you think indieweb solutions will be ready for primetime and used by masses? (twitter.com/_/status/515550534418563072)
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@ShaneHudson @helloanselm (Just for the record) @aral sold his house for ind.ie not indieweb :) (twitter.com/_/status/515550717529292800)
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@helloanselm @ShaneHudson I know but this is part of the indieweb… was a bit generalized +@aral (twitter.com/_/status/515550924849569792)
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kylewm interesting
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@kevinmarks @libel_vox that's something http://indiewebcamp.com does nicely (twitter.com/_/status/515553472108703744)
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@snd1107 RT @_jared: “Using databases for the primary storage of your content is a known antipattern.” well then. http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern Thanks @… (twitter.com/_/status/515557134978015233)
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@krynsky Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withknown (twitter.com/_/status/515563748572930049)
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@kevinmarks RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515564388669861888)
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@evanpro RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515564496962981888)
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@the_spinmd RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515564499425062912)
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@webmink RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515564652936568833)
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@kevinmarks @krynsky @withknown is lovely, but @ello adopting #indieweb protocols and principles would be great too. (twitter.com/_/status/515564716983193600)
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@danja RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515564747434229760)
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@wespacker RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515565074443157504)
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@ShaneHudson RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515565117505679361)
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ben_thatmustbeme its fun to watch twitter storms in real time on here
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@deezthugs RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515565125949206528)
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@ShaneHudson RT @kevinmarks: @krynsky @withknown is lovely, but @ello adopting #indieweb protocols and principles would be great too. (twitter.com/_/status/515565181112291329)
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ShaneHudson This is a nicer one than the others though
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ShaneHudson Hey tantek
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@kevinmarks @aestetix @krynsky diaspora has a monoculture problem, @withknown is built on interoperating specs see http://indiewebcamp.com/Diaspora (twitter.com/_/status/515565507395600384)
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tantek Good morning and hello ShaneHudson
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ben_thatmustbeme hey hey
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/515565507395600384/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Diaspora (webmention)
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@RonKJeffries RT @kevinmarks: @krynsky @withknown is lovely, but @ello adopting #indieweb protocols and principles would be great too. (twitter.com/_/status/515565843980505088)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, is this too short a post to make subsections. kinda break up the "wall of text" effect http://btmb.me/s/1w
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@malcolmbastien RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515566000545497089)
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tantek.com edited /Diaspora (+18) "/* See Also */ ICYMI" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson ben_thatmustbeme: float a few images?
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ben_thatmustbeme images of what though?
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tantek KevinMarks++ for being spot on with replying to so many Ello tweets with a voice of reason, with citations.
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Loqi KevinMarks has 60 karma
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ShaneHudson Perhaps a diagram of POSSE or something
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@evanwolf RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515566611281883136)
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ShaneHudson include bridgy in with posse and indieweb instantly makes sense I think
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tantek ShaneHudson - there *is* a diagram, and I have it my to-do list to put an icon version of it at the top of /POSSE
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ShaneHudson Ah nice :)
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ShaneHudson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Yahoo!
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tantek ShaneHudson: http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE#Background :)
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ShaneHudson I wish I had time to go through that and add Death date
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ShaneHudson tantek: That could terrify some people with all the terms on the side lol
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@slvrbckt RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515567099432173568)
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tantek ShaneHudson - yes, plus it refers to a few now dead sites
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tantek re: the terms on the side, I've learned since then :)
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ShaneHudson Hah yeah
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ShaneHudson I always find it hard to stop myself just using terms as if everyone knows them (and have been trying even harder since you pointed a similar thing out in brighton lol)
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tantek ShaneHudson, that's why we have Loqi to answer for us now! And ask what is questions
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Loqi grins profusely
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+290) "Anything acquired by Yahoo (WP). Bonus: update that the table at that Wikipedia link to include a "Shutdown date" column with dates from the article for each acquisition." (view diff)
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kylewm anybody seen notifix (PuSH test bot)?
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ShaneHudson I mean in general, but yes :)
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tantek ShaneHudson: added your WP Y! link to /site-deaths in the section of things to process for more, and added bonus suggestion per your idea to add death/shutdown date. so maybe someone will do it in the future :)
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tantek which reminds me - haven't looked at http://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/ in a while - and it's truly incredible.
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ShaneHudson Makes me want to cry
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ShaneHudson I would update wikipedia, but large tables are a nightmare to add columns to
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@krynsky I wish @lockerproject would be revived. Any chance of this @jeremie @smurthas @temas? See https://twitter.com/krynsky/status/370587230995509248 #indieweb /cc @kevinmarks (twitter.com/_/status/515569016757174272)
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@andysternberg RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515569376775262209)
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reedstrm tantek ShaneHudson ouch - never saw that tumblr before. The whole business equiv. of "leaving to spend more time with the family/pursue other opportunities" eh? Makes me very happy for free software: it never gets pulled out from under you. Also, makes me go check the status of our "backup everything from github ... just in case" cron. Ah right, nagios does that - it's green :-)
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reedstrm (Hmm, need one for trello now, I see)
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@mjgarton RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515570283085045761)
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ShaneHudson I don't expect companies to last forever, but it really annoys me when they just shutdown and loose everything. Editorally did well, they had export to a zip file of markdown files (IIRC) although sadly didn't open source
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@parzzix RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515570635767304192)
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KevinMarks__ What happened to trello?
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reedstrm Nothing - just need a 'just in case' cron job that keeps a backup. Just in case.
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KevinMarks__ Ah, phew. I thought you meant we needed a wonderful journey post for them
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reedstrm We have one for github: fallback plan for "ourincrediblejourney' scenario, since out github repos are central to our dev. process.
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reedstrm And trello has become core for our larger PM process, so need a disaster plan for that one, too.
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KevinMarks__ Well, at least with git you have local repositories by default
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reedstrm Right - that parts easy, so the cron there just keeps a complete local checkout, independent of any particular developers working tree.
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@shawnnorman "@NYMag: Indie-minded filmmakers are suddenly in demand again, on streaming TV http://t.co/znvyZKRswR" #film #indiefilm #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515572526819196930)
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reedstrm https://github.com/joeyh/github-backup takes care of all the rest: issues, etc.
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finchd reedstrm: have a way to get out github PRs, Issues, and Wiki? Any plans to set something up?
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reedstrm posts crossed
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finchd oops, should have read that ^ before hitting Enter >.<
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reedstrm it's only 1/2 a solution: it grabs data: there's no restore, so it's not really a 'backup' in that sense.
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kylewm appears to back up to “Haskell serialized data types”
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kylewm but I’m guessing this is relatively easy to read?
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tantek what is trello?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "trello" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=trello
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@rhiaro Reading the @withknown docs... it's getting better and better... #indieweb #testPOSSE.. (twitter.com/_/status/515575108987936768)
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reedstrm kylewm: yeah, I didn't really realize that at first: looks almost like json at first glance :)
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bret.io created /trello (+116) "Created page with "{{ stub }} <dfn>[https://trello.com Trello]</dfn> is a popular online project management/note taking/ticket system."" (view diff)
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tantek "serialized data types" - how many a dead-end app-(or language-)specific format is started. E.g. AppleWorks, ClarisWorks.
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tantek.com moved /trello to /Trello "initcap"
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rhiaro Ohai, Loqi stalks twitter for #indieweb?
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tantek welcome rhiaro and yes it does! :)
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ben_thatmustbeme ohh, people talking again
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rhiaro Handy side effect of using the same username for everything
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tantek there was a whole conversation that happened that referenced indieweb, I started favoriting tweets, then they noticed and pointed that out in the thread
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tantek see starting here: https://twitter.com/patlockley/status/515451964076085250
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@patlockley Seeing a lot of ello mentions come from nowhere in two days. Reminds me of leaving myspace for facebook (twitter.com/_/status/515451964076085250)
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rhiaro It might get out of hand if lots of people start :)
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bret Facebook was invite only at first
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tantek start what?
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tantek bret - no Facebook was domain name white-listed at first.
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tantek sound familiar?
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rhiaro Using #indieweb on Twitter, loqi will flood the channel
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tantek rhiaro - bring it ;)
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rhiaro Heh
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bret tantek: not for high school
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ben_thatmustbeme haha, we've had our share of #indieweb twitter storms in here
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rhiaro Well since I'm here, anyone at #webwewant in London this weekend?
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bret interesting I didn't know anyone with a school domain could get one
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tantek what is webwewant?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "webwewant" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=webwewant
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rhiaro webwewant.org
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rhiaro Festival thingy
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reedstrm tantek kylewm serialized ... yeah, and Joey has filed a bug w/ his upstream library to get toJson for all the things. Considers it a prereq for restore.
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reedstrm It's a bit odd, of course: the github api is already providing json ...
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tantek reedstrm - right, because JSON has such a well documented long-lived history of being good for restoring data from.
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bret rhiaro: Is Anil involved in that?
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bret sounds like the web we lost blog post title
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tantek led a session call "The Web We Want" at the Mozilla Summit in Santa Clara last year.
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@rhiaro Deciding whether to boot up a new digital ocean droplet and install @withknown, or go home and watch last week's Doctor Who... #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515577653571493888)
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reedstrm well, yeah, I've bowed to the pressure json everywhere. It's better than python pickles, at least.
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rhiaro Oops, did it again :)
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tantek :)
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tantek http://lanyrd.com/2013/mozilla2013/scqrxm/
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rhiaro bret: I don't know Anil
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bret.io created /webwewant (+518) "Created page with "{{ stub }} <dfn>[http://webwewant.org Webwewant]</dfn> is an conference in London about improving the state of the Web: "We focus on using innovative approaches to build suppor..."" (view diff)
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rhiaro Or who is running webwewant. I think it's out of W3c web25 stuff
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bret rhiaro: if you don't have time for setting up a DB and php application right now, a simple about html page is something you CAN do while watching dr who! (if you don't already have one)
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kylewm rhiaro: I don’t know if it helps but I heard lst weeks Dr. Who wasn’t very good
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kylewm :)
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rhiaro bret: rhiaro.co.uk/about#me
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bret sweet! rhiaro++
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rhiaro rhiaro.co.uk is nicer to look at..
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reedstrm rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 1 karma
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reedstrm bret: gotta do it all by itself, so Loqi notices :-)
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Loqi woot!
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rhiaro But is also just a front end on my blogger RSS feed, which I've been t trying to retire for a while now
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bret i dig the dig the did, doing, todo organization
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kylewm lol “This website is under destruction”
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bret err
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bret s/i dig the dig/i dig the
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rhiaro :D
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rhiaro Out of date though
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bret :(
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@myfreeweb @polotek @aredridel how about this alternative http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/515579839366307841)
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bret when you get a chance add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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rhiaro I've been blogging to a local, half finished replacement which I've been expecting to finish and ship for months
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bret rhiaro:
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bret oops
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bret rhiaro: ship it live on a subdomain! seeing broken things live is a good motivation technique :)
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rhiaro Yup. I'm hoping webwewant will be a good back drop for sitting around hacking on it this weekend
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rhiaro I suppose now is as good a time as any to sort this indieauth thing out; something else I've been getting round to for months
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www.reedstrom.org edited /IRC_People (+58) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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reedstrm ouch! scanning data sorted on the third column w/ irregular column width ....
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finchd rhiaro: the wiki ^ is indieauth only. then add yourself to IRC People ^
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bret rhiaro: to use an existing auth hub is easy, just rel=me a link to a supported oauth provider
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Loqi [mention] http://btmb.me/s/1y linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://btmb.me/s/1y linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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reedstrm what is remoteStorage
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "remoteStorage" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=remoteStorage
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reedstrm rhiaro: looks like that'd be a good page for you to start with, after the auth and user and irc-people pages, of course :-)
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@myfreeweb @aredridel people have been using standalone blogs for >10 years… #indieweb is the same, just with new tech, short posts, etc. (twitter.com/_/status/515582217322790912)
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@LarryRosenthal RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515582272146530305)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /IRC_People (+82) (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme Probably should just take out the IWC logo at the bottom there, I feel like i'm attributing it to the group, and thats not right http://btmb.me/s/1y
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bret woop! rhiaro++
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reedstrm rhiaro++
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reedstrm Loqi? You there?
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bret Loqi's Karma ray needs recharging
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ben_thatmustbeme yep, i'm sour, loqi's karma bits burn out fast
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ben_thatmustbeme sure*
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reedstrm what is foocamp
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "foocamp" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=foocamp
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rhiaro I've been stalking indieweb and related things for quite some time. I've read enough to know how things work, just haven't made time to start implementing yet. It begins today!
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reedstrm just checking if Loqi wa still listening :-)
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reedstrm rhiaro: wouldn't be TAB (thesis avoidance behavior), would it?
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reedstrm where's that evil grin smiley ...
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reedstrm BTDTGTT...E ( got the thesis ... eventually)
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bret ha
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bret there might be a few people avoiding thesis work in here actually
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rhiaro I've avoided thesis all summer by doing an internship.. Which I think is pretty solid commitment to avoidance
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reedstrm though for rhiaro looks like it can be generally classed as gathering tools for the thesis work itself - seems related, for sure. Creative types collaborating could be extra sensitive about silos, I'd think. Looks like interesting stuff.
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rhiaro Yes, definitely relevant
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rhiaro Though still not sure where I'm going with it all
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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rhiaro What do you work on, reedstrm?
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reedstrm http://cnx.org
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reedstrm Open Ed Resources (OER) since ... 1999
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rhiaro Cool
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reedstrm We're about 70% through a complete system rewrite/overhaul. The editor half in particular is not yet live.
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reedstrm Everything is CC-By licensed, reuable directly on the site (or elsewhere, but we try to make it easy to use here)
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rhiaro That's impressive, I'm surprised I haven't come across it before
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reedstrm an since you asked: http://twit.tv/show/floss-weekly/291
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reedstrm Outreach is a bit of a problem :-)
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rhiaro I'm often surrounded by people banging on about moocs
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reedstrm we started out being _waaay_ out there in the wilderness - custom mozilla browser build, so the math worked, that sort of thing.
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rhiaro I'll alert them next time
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reedstrm David Wiley's recently been blogging about the missed opportunity of the moocs - not really open, that sort of thing.
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reedstrm he tweets as @opencontent
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sparverius I'M OFF GOOGLE!
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reedstrm sparverius: congrats!
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sparverius (in that while i use google services, google currently only gets data that i put into it, ie search history)
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sparverius not sure what to do about that sort of thing, like youtube and the like. maybe script takeout and diff? i dunno
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bret wool! keep us posted how it goes sparverius
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bret s/wool/woop
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Loqi bret meant to say: woop! keep us posted how it goes sparverius
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reedstrm hehe - I was about to ask about wool
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bret OS X autocorrect
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bret :(
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sparverius okay i lied
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sparverius i forgot about email
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reedstrm sparverius--
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sparverius im doing that tonight. but i havent used any google specific email features in a few weeks sooo
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Loqi sparverius has 3 karma
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reedstrm sparverius++
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sparverius i just need to swtich my MX records really
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reedstrm I was too quick, sorry
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sparverius it's okay :)
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reedstrm :-)
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sparverius i dont really know how im going to selfhost email or if i even should
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reedstrm Heck, I'm deeply embeded in the googleshpere, so it's good to see someone make a break for the fence, as it were
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reedstrm Yeah, spam is ... scary bad.
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kylewm sparverius: fastmail.fm is decent…i haven’t made the jump yet either
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kylewm still on gmail but i did the fastmail trial
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@kevinmarks » @anotherny: What if i told you there was a completely open social network without advertising called making your own blog—« #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515590787598266368)
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reedstrm I actually have the spawned process problem: I want to provide emails for my two boys, but be able to monitor a bit, so ... google apps for domains (as it used to be called - rebranded google for business, expecting to be cut off from free access at any time)
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sparverius i dont think that google will cut free access without ample notification. it probably costs them about the same as normal gmail
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reedstrm right - the underlying code is'nt going away, they're expanding it for businesses. Heck, Rice uses it for the undergrads.
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reedstrm (Rice University, where I work)
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@hobsonlane Thanks to @skjonas for fun, enlightening #QS #PDX meetup http://www.meetup.com/PDX-Quantified-Self/events/205399332/ and @dietrich for beta on #FirefoxOS and @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/515592169810591744)
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Loqi [mention] http://btmb.me/s/1z linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://btmb.me/s/1z linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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@evanpro @dakami @kragen Maybe you're talking about Diaspora protocol or the IndieWeb work? Bitmessage? What protocol have you decided can't work? (twitter.com/_/status/515592899493658624)
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ben_thatmustbeme ohh, i like the post format of bridgy facebook posse
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ben_thatmustbeme has the whole article there now correctly. me likey
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sparverius btw you know what REALLY helped getting off of google?
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sparverius my android phone broke and i used a windows phone i got for almost free
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sparverius i got ripped pretty hard from google's ecosystem. turns out microsoft supports a lot of standards
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ben_thatmustbeme (almost) free phone is always nice
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sparverius yeah the catch being that it was windows phone
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ben_thatmustbeme its windows?
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sparverius which btw is actually pretty good
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sparverius windows phone 8.1
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ben_thatmustbeme hehe :P
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KevinMarks_ I did "the web we found" at Le Web
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ben_thatmustbeme oh i misread that, thought you said "yeah the catch of being on a windows phone ..." like you were going to tell me the main problem with it
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ben_thatmustbeme KevinMarks_ whats that?
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ben_thatmustbeme oh a conf
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jjuran http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve48PjgDAn0
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sparverius ben_thatmustbeme: well windows phone gets a knee jerk "IT SUCKS" reaction which i think is unfair
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sparverius having used it for a bit, it does have its rough edges but considering how low priced they are compared to other smartphones, it's a pretty good deal if you need a phone for 3 months
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ben_thatmustbeme oh i'm sure, i'm glad to see more competition
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jjuran How does one develop for it?
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jjuran Are there free/libre dev tools?
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sparverius jjuran: visual studio
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sparverius it's locked down like ios, unfortunately
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jjuran sounds like "no"
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KevinMarks_ or just make web apps
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sparverius ^^^^
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jjuran Appletried that
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sparverius it works pretty well on winpho
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sparverius also many windows phone apps are just web apps it turns out
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jjuran Or if you mean HTML5 apps as on Firefox OS
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sparverius wrapped in a web view
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jjuran If I was cool with that I'd consider FFOS first.
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reedstrm cyanogenmod, but don't install the gapps, and use stuff from f-droid.org only
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reedstrm And if it's not there, help code it :-/
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jjuran I have F-Droid on both phones, next step is to root and backup
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reedstrm For any given category I try there first
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@kevinmarks @dakami do you have a longer-form explanation of this? sounds like a point too subtle for tweet length @evanpro @kragen #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515597633931718656)
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jjuran Really I should just acquire another phone to hack on instead of taking one of my current ones offline
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Guest18211 Hi - would you recommend I use withknown on their site or clone idno to my own server. My preference is my own server but I wonder about updates - such as how often the 'main' withknown sites are updated vs the git master repo
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KevinMarks_ ask benwerd for details, but he is doing active development in the open source repository
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KevinMarks_ you can ask people who are self-hosting for how they manage updates
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@Kevindoylejones RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515599828928446464)
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kylewm marginalventures: I would recommend using the zip releases on withknown.com rather than working out of the git repository
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dlyke Gest18211 I'm still not sure if I'm ready to commit to WithKnown, but I'm running off the git repo. I may change to a testing/staging and a deployment structure, but I really like running out of the .git repo for two reasons:
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dlyke 1. Easer to generate patches.
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dlyke 2. I like rapid development cycles for experimental/blog-ish/personal stuff, and I like the idea of Ben saying "oh, yeah, I see that bug" and me running the fix within minutes.
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bret you can branch a git tag and run those too right?
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bret similar to the zip files, but still tracks
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dlyke yeah, I'm sure they'll tag git releases. And/but "git pull" is the easiest way in the world to integrate remote and local changes.
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm quite happy with my micropub posting of articles. so much nicer than any admin interface
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bret git pull++
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bret nice ben_thatmustbeme !
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bret did you make a new client?
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ben_thatmustbeme just expanding my own continually
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ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/new
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ben_thatmustbeme article uses ckeditor
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bret ben_thatmustbeme++ http://bret.io/2014/09/26/testing-out-ben-s-mi/
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 17 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme i plan to add delete, full edit, etc eventually
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bret edit is going to be kind of weird
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ben_thatmustbeme just need to use JS to pull in the data
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ben_thatmustbeme i can already update to add syndication URLs after the fact
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KevinMarks_ hm, I misunderstood slug there
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KevinMarks_ http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/and-have-it-sent-out-to-twitter-too-the-beginnings
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ben_thatmustbeme huh?
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ben_thatmustbeme was that from my endpoint?
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KevinMarks_ I thought 'slug' was title
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ben_thatmustbeme slient*
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh
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ben_thatmustbeme client*
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KevinMarks_ http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/i-do-like-that-micropub-means-i-can-post-from
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ben_thatmustbeme also, as soon as you log out the token get tossed away. its only ever stored in session
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@kevinmarks @dakami I'd welcome that - the more we document this stuff the better. use http://indiewebcamp.com wiki if you like @evanpro @kragen @gojomo (twitter.com/_/status/515608497439113216)
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@kragen RT @kevinmarks: @dakami I'd welcome that - the more we document this stuff the better. use http://indiewebcamp.com wiki if you like @evanpro… (twitter.com/_/status/515608836351459328)
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KevinMarks_ hm, the post to twitter didn't happen
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ben_thatmustbeme may be because the syndicate-to i use isn't the same as others
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KevinMarks_ possibly known doesn't have that yet?
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ben_thatmustbeme http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Brainstorming multiple in-reply-to
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@melinamasnatta Indieweb una recomendación de @qadmon (twitter.com/_/status/515609319556276224)
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ben_thatmustbeme the bit about most are using , but we really shouldn't since , is a valid URL character
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ben_thatmustbeme and there is already a system for post having multiple values
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KevinMarks_ right, saw some of that last night
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KevinMarks_ the [] in params seems hacky
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/kevinmarks/515608497439113216/515608836351459328 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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ben_thatmustbeme its been standard for a long while
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ben_thatmustbeme thats how multi-select has worked for quite some time
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KevinMarks_ no, &field=val1&field=val1 is standard
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KevinMarks_ as in the actual spec
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KevinMarks_ see checkboxes in forms
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tantek.com moved /webwewant to /Web_We_Want_Festival "titlecap, use fullname"
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/515608497439113216/876081 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm does php work without the [] i wonder
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techlifeweb Off topic but asking because this is the best collection of people who may know...Can anyone point me to best practices for organizing a brand new wiki?
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@RikMende Simple, beautiful & ad-free Read the #ello manifesto: https://ello.co/manifesto interesting just need to adopt #webmentions & #indieweb concept (twitter.com/_/status/515612985004683264)
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KevinMarks_ the best thing about the ello craze is that it is a website that is getting interes
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tantek.com edited /Web_We_Want_Festival (+119) "full name, blockquote, see also" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks RT @RikMende: Simple, beautiful & ad-free Read the #ello manifesto: https://ello.co/manifesto interesting just need to adopt #webmentions & #i… (twitter.com/_/status/515613438887088129)
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@Eastmad @RikMende @kevinmarks but.. it's very much not indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515613737731231745)
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, sadly, without the [] PHP only recognizes the last value
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tantek.com edited /webwewant (-9) "r to words" (view diff)
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dlyke Andy Baio pointed out that the LiveJournal Social Contract also promised they'd be ad free forever, and that lasted about a year after acquisition. http://web.archive.org/web/20040401175244/http://www.livejournal.com/site/contract.bml
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tantek.com created /web_we_want (+282) "stub disambiguation page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /web_we_want (+1) ". for what is" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /web_we_want (+129) "or the video" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /web_we_want (+1) "s" (view diff)
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bret thanks for fixing that tantek
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bret dlyke: nice find!
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Micropub (+274) "/* Clients */ add openblog" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Micropub (+22) "/* OpenBlog */ to err is human" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks "@virginia: Blogging is so back. I love it." #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/515621866698862592)
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tantek.com created /The_Web_We_Want (+560) "partial stub" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu hmm Loqi doesn't give messages unless spoken to
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Loqi who, me?
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KartikPrabhu hi anomalily nice article about zines and indieweb
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anomalily KartikPrabhu: thanks. TIme to follow up with conversations about actual steps for increasing accessibility
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Loqi anomalily: KartikPrabhu left you a message on 9/25 at 7:33pm: my webmention from https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/zine-indieweb to your article gives a 400 Source URL not found. even when I remove the funny fragmention from the in-reply-to URL
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KartikPrabhu aah there it is ^ :)
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anomalily Ah! It's probably something broken on my implementation of bridgy. I'm going to do some fixing this weekend. Thanks for letting me know
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KartikPrabhu anomalily: hopefully known is helping the accessibility direction, though on the whole indieweb for not-techies needs more work for sure
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@FlowFXx RT @krynsky: Forget Ello. We need to support #indieweb friendly apps that are open source, de-centralized & can be self-hosted like @withkn… (twitter.com/_/status/515638640383655937)
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tantek.com edited /The_Web_We_Want (+802) "add more details for various sessions" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /The_Web_We_Want (+293) "photo" (view diff)
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tantek what is a droplet?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "droplet" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=droplet
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tantek what is digital ocean?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "digital ocean" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=digital+ocean
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tantek what is withknown?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "withknown" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=withknown
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tantek Ok I'll do that one ;)
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tantek.com created /withknown (+19) "r" (view diff)
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rascul what is digitalocean?
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Loqi DigitalOcean is a web hosting provider targeted towards developers and offers low cost cloud servers in data centers across the world http://indiewebcamp.com/DigitalOcean
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tantek.com edited /The_Web_We_Want (-1) (view diff)
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rascul.io created /digital_ocean (+26) "Redirected page to [[DigitalOcean]]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /The_Web_We_Want (+33) "try explicit summary" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /The_Web_We_Want (-32) "remove extra stuff" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /web_we_want (-1) "-:" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /web_we_want (+1) "-: ()" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /web_we_want (+1) "-: -" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /The_Web_We_Want (+31) "explicit p-summary one more try" (view diff)
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bret aaronpk, tantek: what about auto voicing people here who have added to irc-people? might be another encouragement tactic
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tantek what is auto-voicing?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "auto-voicing" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=auto-voicing
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bret traditionally it interacts with channel permissions, but people use it in all sorts of ways
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rascul the auto voice idea is interesting
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bret puts a + in front of people's names
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KartikPrabhu err what's auto voicing?
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bret it could serve as an indicator if people have signed into the wiki or not though
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rascul set it with chanserv
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bret it also serves as an indicator if the persons nick is registered
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rascul yeah, gotta register with nickserv for chanserv to put you on access list
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rascul downside is that access list will get big
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bret is that bad?
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rascul probably not in this channel where few are banned
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rascul big access lists can get cumbersome if they need to be modified often
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david.shanske.com edited /User:David.shanske.com (+112) "/* David Shanske */" (view diff)
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GWG Greetomgs
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rascul er, wait, i'm mixing things up
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rascul ignore my last few lines ;)
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bret rascul: mainly just add people to.
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bret i doubt editing will be a big issue
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bret hey GWG
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GWG What's been going on around here? I've been away
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rascul bret i had it in my mind that ban lists and access lists were together, which is not the case
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bret GWG: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today
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bret oy that would be bad
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bret GWG: nothing in particular stands out :)
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GWG I just finished adding some project pages to my site.
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bret woohoo!
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bret link?
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GWG http://di5.us/b/Au
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GWG tantek last week had been encouraging me to update my user page
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GWG I decided to launch some pages on my site explaining what I had and link to them on the user page on the wiki
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bret Yeah I need to do that too
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bret got trolled by a what is gitpub?
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GWG I may do some screenshots, like a larger project.
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GWG I also have a few projects to add
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GWG All my projects are pretty small and simple by design
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kylewm whoa, somebody I don’t know talking about Known on my Facebook stream today
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GWG kylewm: Word spreads.
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kylewm friend of a san francisco friend, but still
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dlyke Aand http://www.flutterby.net/status/user/DanLyke and http://www.flutterby.com have some microformat support now. Need to make the inbound links parser deal with microformats soon.
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bret yay!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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bret dlyke++
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Loqi dlyke has 2 karma