#indiewebcamp 2014-11-17

2014-11-17 UTC
#
pdurbin
tanteking. heh
julian`` joined the channel
#
@mshook
Jon at Known #known #judell #indieweb #november #2014
(twitter.com/_/status/534136581867569152)
#
GWG
tantek: That you would be showing contacts based on logged in status. It was based on your work. But, being as login is often automatic, how do you know what a person wants you to not share?
#
tantek
GWG - where/how were those UI thoughts captured on the page?
#
GWG
I just started
#
@mshook
Jon at Known http://judell.withknown.com/ #judell #known #withknown #indieweb #november #2014
(twitter.com/_/status/534138859152371712)
#
GWG
I need to work on my wikifying
#
GWG
What's the link for HWC this week? I want to try my first RSVP
fmarier joined the channel
#
kylewm
hey this week is the one-year anniversary of HWC
#
rascul
maybe we could do hwc online?
#
GWG
kylewm: Didn't work. Can I get some assistance?
#
kylewm
GWG: RSVPs are reply posts just like a normal reply, so you should have u-in-reply-to instead of u-rsvp
#
ben_thatmust
what are you guys working on?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "you guys working on" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+guys+working+on
#
GWG
Give me a moment. I can fix that
#
kylewm
and then p-rsvp is yes no maybe
#
rascul
i'm pondering what next to add to my site
#
rascul
i would need first webmentions
#
rascul
maybe that's the answer!
#
kylewm
rascul: micropub?
#
GWG
Just found a code problem. One second
#
kylewm
rascul++ just noticed you added navigable urls
#
Loqi
rascul has 27 karma
#
rascul
i did?
#
GWG
I will get it fixed
#
rascul
oh, yeah, today i think
#
ben_thatmust
oh, webmentions would be a good thing to add
#
rascul
i was (slowly) working on redoing a bunch of code since iwc cambridge, and now it's about done and other things are easier to do :)
#
rascul
gonna read up more on webmentions and see what to do for it
#
GWG
Okay. I thought I fixed it.
#
GWG
kylewm: Still nothing.
#
tantek.com
edited /wikifying (+2357) "expand with Why and How to with specifics for User pages, incremental, new pages"
(view diff)
#
kylewm
GWG: now your p-rsvp is part of the h-cite
#
tantek
GWG, kylewm for your review ^^^ /wikifying
#
kylewm
is reading about Gogs, a "self-hosted Git service written in Go", whose code is hosted on github
#
GWG
kylewm: Thank you. That requires a bigger rewrite. I added in RSVP, but the plugin was originally designed for responses. I hard-coded the h-cite.
mlncn joined the channel
#
kylewm
GWG: you could just stick <span class="p-rsvp">yes</span> in the post body... that's all I do
#
rascul
likes gogs
#
GWG
kylewm: Still no.
#
@FirstGlanceFilm
RT @HOUSEDwebseries: Have you liked our #Facebook page? https://www.facebook.com/HOUSEDthewebseries #webseries #SupportIndieFilm #indieweb #comedy #horror #fun…
(twitter.com/_/status/534145539990749185)
#
GWG
Where's the webmention form on a Known site?
#
kylewm
curl?
#
kylewm
that did it
#
kylewm
but it thinks your name is "Web user"
#
GWG
Interesting
#
tantek
what does indiewebify.me say?
#
GWG
I figured it out.
#
GWG
I'm coding a fix.
#
GWG
The Status format of my site, the one with the picture of me when I post, links to the author url. But that page does not have an h-card.
#
GWG
It should link to the site or not link at all.
#
kylewm.com
created /session_facilitating (+1859) "Created page with "<dfn>Session facilitating</dfn> refers to facilitating a brainstorming session at an IndieWebCamp event. Session facilitators are responsible for setting the discussion topic/goa...""
(view diff)
#
kylewm.com
created /facilitating (+34) "Redirected page to [[session facilitating]]"
(view diff)
#
kylewm.com
edited /session_facilitating (+37) "added See Also section"
(view diff)
#
kylewm.com
edited /2014/Introductions (+27) "/* See Also */ added session facilitating"
(view diff)
#
kylewm
GWG: I don't quite understand what the issue "Web user" issue is... Indiewebify.me likes your markup just fine
#
GWG
kylewm: I think it was because it picked up the link to /author which is the WordPress default. I fixed it
KartikPrabhu and jonathanfrei joined the channel
#
aaronpk
can you post the link to the hangouts URL here?
#
aaronpk
I haven't been able to figure out how to join from the G+ page
#
rascul
same here
#
GWG
I think this is the Hangout
#
GWG
Final Call for Hack Demos.
#
GWG
All attendees should be in the Hangout
#
tantek
nothing to demo, just the writeup on the /wikifying page - HTH
#
GWG
If you want to just watch...
#
GWG
That will give you the video feed once it is up, I believe
#
aaronpk
sadly has nothing to demo, just writing up notes on micropub today
#
GWG
We are live
#
GWG
thedod is demonstrating templating in Mustache to format webmentions from the IndieWebCamp wiki page.
#
GWG
ben_thatmustbeme is demonstrating some improvements in his MicroPub implementation.
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+726) "document field types and how to remove fields"
(view diff)
#
GWG
rascul is now presenting his sites...chainging his permalinks
#
rascul
i did more, but talking to a computer is weird and i forgot the other things :(
#
GWG
aaronpk typed up his notes from the MicroPub Session.
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+253) "adding values"
(view diff)
#
david.shanske.com
edited /2014/Online (-139) "/* IndieWebCampOnline 2014 */"
(view diff)
#
GWG
This now concludes IWC Online 2014.
#
tantek
Thank you GWG!
#
GWG
Thank you ben_thatmustbeme
#
tantek
GWG++ !!!
#
Loqi
GWG has 31 karma
#
GWG
Not sure what the next event will be, but I think this was a format worth exploring
#
GWG
We learned that Hangouts on Air is great for demos.
#
GWG
Does work somewhat for sessions.
#
GWG
And now its onward to...DC? Providence? NYC?
mdik joined the channel
#
rascul
votes for dc
#
aaronpk
hopeefully can get more interest!
KartikPrabhu and snarfed joined the channel
#
GWG
I was in DC on Friday
chrissaad joined the channel
#
GWG
I would attend DC if I could. But there is no...interested but not organizing section
chrissaad, reedstrm, KartikPrabhu and lukebrooker joined the channel
#
@sil
@adactio nice summary. I really would like to get back to posting on one's own site, and blog-to-blog conversations (ping: @AaronGustafson:)
(twitter.com/_/status/534141257292193792)
jonathanfrei, lukebrooker_, reedstrm, hodlr, snarfed, gr0k and thedod joined the channel
#
thedod
Sorry. Internet went down towards the end of the event
#
thedod
anyway, respect to GWG and all of you. I really enjoyed it
#
GWG
I enjoyed it as well.
#
pdurbin
GWG: this was the virtual event?
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
GWG
pdurbin: Yes
#
pdurbin
cool. glad it worked out
#
GWG
pdurbin: You were welcome to show.
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
pdurbin
yeah, I think you mentioned. so busy. sorry
#
GWG
pdurbin: You can watch the video.
wolftune and tantek joined the channel
#
kylewm
whoa, I think you can't log in to the Instagram website without allowing Facebook Connect
#
GWG
Interesting
jonathanfrei, loic_m, friedcell, wolftune, tantek and Jihaisse joined the channel
#
tantek.com
edited /2014/Online/Sessions (+72) "/* Wikifying */ wrote up notes"
(view diff)
pfefferle, KartikPrabhu, eschnou, mlncn, Pierre-O, Sebastien-L, alexhartley, pfefferle_, jonathanfrei, friedcell, modem, modem_ and alanpearce joined the channel
#
@Japh
@DeFries The IndieWeb plugin, and a bunch of the plugins it recommends. It’s quite cool :)
(twitter.com/_/status/534331374295998464)
loic_m joined the channel
#
tommorris.org
edited /advocacy (+50) "specifying the sort of problems we mean"
(view diff)
scor and pfefferle joined the channel
Pierre-O joined the channel
#
@ryanhellyer
@Japh @DeFries What on earth does that plugin do? It just says it's "The IndieWeb version of WordPress' Jetpack plugin".
(twitter.com/_/status/534338240275554304)
#
tommorris
pfefferle: ^^
#
pfefferle
tommorris ???
#
pfefferle
haven’t seen the tweet :)
#
tommorris
I'm interested too. I may download WordPress and test out the plugin at some point.
bnvk joined the channel
Sebastien-L, friedcell, pfefferle, danlyke_, brianloveswords, Pierre-O, alexhartley and loic_m joined the channel
#
@SimoneKisiel
RT @HOUSEDwebseries: Have you liked our #Facebook page? https://www.facebook.com/HOUSEDthewebseries #webseries #SupportIndieFilm #indieweb #comedy #horror #fun…
(twitter.com/_/status/534364234969530368)
friedcell, shiflett, brianloveswords, reedstrm, modem, snarfed and bnvk joined the channel
#
bnvk
hello all you ppls I haven't chatted with in awhile
tantek joined the channel
#
tommorris
hey bnvk
#
bnvk
tommorris: ahoy :)
#
tantek
welcome back bnvk!
chalettu, mlncn, brianloveswords and alanpearce_ joined the channel
#
snarfed
hi bnvk!
brianloveswords, alanpear_, eschnou and danlyke joined the channel
#
bnvk
tantek: snarfed: thanks :)
#
@LifeHealthDiary
#bigdata is transformative when gathered fm multiple silos @ individual person level - especially in #healthcare. #OwnYourData
(twitter.com/_/status/534378054400102400)
alanpearce and mko joined the channel
#
GWG
pfefferle: Thank you for the pull requests yesterday. I still have that question for you though.
#
pfefferle
GWG your welcome… thanks for fixing my bugs so fast :)
#
pfefferle
GWG can you reask your question?
#
GWG
pfefferle: I was hacking on it at the time
#
GWG
pfefferle: Is it worth filtering comment_class in semantic linkbacks in order to add mf2 markup or should that be left to the theme, do you think?
#
pfefferle
GWG I tried it completely via wordpress filters/actions, but there are not enough of them
#
pfefferle
GWG that’s why I replaced the comments via SemPress
#
pfefferle
GWG but we can add some more through the semantic-linkbacks plugin
#
GWG
pfefferle: And I just updated Semantic Comments, my comment replacement, to replace the comment walker entirely.
#
GWG
pfefferle: My issue is always trying to figure out the right level in the chain for an event to occur.
#
GWG
So, should something be generalized and put in semantic linkbacks or specialized elsewhere?
#
pfefferle
do you have an example for a class you want to add?
#
GWG
pfefferle: My proposal is that comment_class should be filtered to add the linkback type as a class to the comment.
#
pfefferle
ah ok… like ”žlike“, ”žrsvp-yes“ or ”žrepost“ ???
#
GWG
pfefferle: Yes. I thought about doing it elsewhere, but I thought it made sense to do it in the plugin.
#
pfefferle
I think this should be part of the plugin, because the plugin sets all these types…
#
pfefferle
GWG good idea!
#
Loqi
GWG has 32 karma
wolftune joined the channel
#
GWG
pfefferle: That was what I was thinking. Wanted to get your opinion before I wrote it up and sent over the pull request
#
pfefferle
GWG should we prefix them?
#
GWG
You mean u- and p-?
#
pfefferle
like the post classes: type-like
#
GWG
Well, type is a reserved word.
#
pfefferle
I don’t think p- or u- is a good idea, because it is no property or url
#
pfefferle
we can use h-as-* perhaps
#
GWG
Would work thogh
#
GWG
h-as-like h-as-favorite, etc?
#
GWG
Okay. Will write the code when I get a chance.
#
pfefferle
is there a list of the activitystreams object types that will come with spec 2.0?
#
GWG
pfefferle: I'm not sure.
#
GWG
I can't find one
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
mko
Nice, rascul.
#
mko
rascul++
#
Loqi
rascul has 28 karma
#
tantek
rascul++ nicely done!
#
Loqi
rascul has 29 karma
#
tantek
views source
#
pfefferle
but these are only the verbs
#
mko
Interesting. You include the caption as part of u-photo?
#
rascul
i'm not really sure if i'm doing it right
#
tantek
rascul: you have <span class="u-photo"><img src=""> but that's not doing what you think
#
mko
rascul: I'm pretty sure u-photo should be on the img, not the container around it.
#
tantek
"u-photo" is implying you mean for the property to be parsed for a URL first, then text second
#
tantek
thus yes, what mko just said
#
rascul
fixes
#
pfefferle
GWG better :)
#
pfefferle
GWG but that doesn’t really help ;)
#
tantek
pfefferle: always start from IWC wiki for such things, e.g. /activity-streams :)
#
GWG
pfefferle: I can't figure out the one for a generic mention
#
notizblog.org
created /Activity-Streams (+31) "redirect to ActivityStreams"
(view diff)
#
notizblog.org
edited /Activity-Streams (-2) "Redirected page to [[ActivityStreams]]"
(view diff)
#
tantek
in general, AS is a good source for previous research, but should not be used as any kind of canonical list of types - because they're based in "wants" - not cited research of existing examples and implementations implementing publicly.
#
kylewm
rascul: I really like how minimalist your html is. almost no classes that aren't for mf2
#
tantek
indeed
#
GWG
is still not sure what classes to use
#
tantek
as few as possible
#
rascul
kylewm the site generator uses mf2 internally also
#
GWG
tantek: Semantic Linkbacks generates the code for the different types of responses, but doesn't mark them up. That is what I want to add, but need a simple clean markup
#
rascul
tantek i have class="u-photo" on the img now but it still isn't showing up http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://rascul.io/boosie/in-bed-with-toys
#
rascul
maybe i'm missing something else also
#
tantek
wow - nothing is showingup - are you blocking pin13? or doing UA-based sniffing/blocking?
#
rascul
not at all
npdoty joined the channel
#
pfefferle
try to paste the html source here http://pin13.net/mf2/
#
pfefferle
the url version seems broken
#
rascul
looks like just pin13 isn't working then
Pea1 joined the channel
#
tantek
aaronpk ^^^
#
@AaronGustafson
@aaronpk Any chance I could snag a webmention.io account? I’m interested in integrating it on an Octopress site.
(twitter.com/_/status/534394431768915968)
#
@AaronGustafson
@aaronpk Any chance I could snag a webmention.io account? I’m interested in integrating with Octopress. https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/18/2/bordernone
(twitter.com/_/status/534394789152948224)
scor and brianloveswords joined the channel
#
@jkphl
RT @AaronGustafson: @aaronpk Any chance I could snag a webmention.io account? I’m interested in integrating with Octopress. https://t.co/Wi…
(twitter.com/_/status/534396550030819328)
#
@border_none
RT @AaronGustafson: @aaronpk Any chance I could snag a webmention.io account? I’m interested in integrating with Octopress. https://t.co/Wi…
(twitter.com/_/status/534396550064373761)
#
aaronpk
oboy, probably ssl errors with pin13
chrissaad joined the channel
#
rascul
broke it :(
#
tantek
tommorris: would appreciate your review of /wikifying in the context of the indiewebcamp community
herbsmn joined the channel
#
tommorris
also, my Eye-Fi arrived today. I'm going to play around a bit this evening to see if there is an easy way to have my pictures go from my camera straight to somewhere I control on the web.
#
tantek
tommorris: that WP page is good general wiki editing advice, which I tried to avoid with /wikifying
#
tantek
and rather focus on aspects of /wikifying that are more in the spirit of what indiewebcamp is about
#
tantek
selfdogfood, scratch your own itch, etc.
#
tommorris
tantek: yeah, just pointing out the potential namespace conflict, to ensure we are clear that if they aren't the same, we should document that.
#
tantek
they are the same
#
tommorris
a lot of people apply Wikipedia assumptions to anything Wiki-ish. :)
#
tantek
right, ours already has the namespace of indiewebcamp.com :)
#
aaronpk
tommorris: I believe the eye-fi relies on their cloud service, but can upload to an FTP server
#
tantek
not SFTP?
#
aaronpk
probably supports sftp, I kind of assume that when I say ftp now
#
aaronpk
point is it's not like it goes directly from the card to your server
#
tommorris
aaronpk: got the Pro one. was more thinking of having some scripts on my desktop, or some processes on my phone, to do the auto-upload.
#
aaronpk
ah yeah, if you are in range of a computer and your computer is connected to the card's wifi then it goes direct to your computer
#
tommorris
I mostly bought it so I can quick-post stuff from my phone while out-and-about. seems silly to be taking both a good photo and a phone snap. :)
#
aaronpk
but that ties up the wifi connection of your computer so you wouldn't get an internet connection that way
#
aaronpk
without another network card
#
tantek.com
edited /wikifying (+313) "Related Articles, WP"
(view diff)
#
tantek
why not EyeFi + MiFi?
#
tantek
thanks tommorris - added the ref to WP wikify
#
tommorris
EyeFi + iPhone + posting to my own site in Safari is a good first start.
#
aaronpk
eyefi + mifi would mean the camera can upload via the cell connection any time which is cool, but still relies on eyefi.com
#
aaronpk
just depends on how much you don't want to use their servers
#
aaronpk
I really don't mind because it's not like they store the photos or anything
#
tommorris
my use case is this - back on 2014-03-29, I posted this https://tommorris.org/posts/8872 - I would have liked to have taken it with my decent camera (X-Pro1), then posted it to my own site from my phone, with the photo hosted on my own (sub)domain.
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek
what is EyeFi?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "EyeFi" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=EyeFi
#
tommorris.org
created /EyeFi (+752) "new page"
(view diff)
Sebastien-L, alanpearce, alanpearce_ and pauloppenheim joined the channel
#
tommorris
ooh. https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/camerasync/id406645727?mt=8 - 1.99 GBP app that promises background image upload to S3. S3 lets you set up an SQS queue to notify you of every upload. this means you could actually have your website have access to all your photos and post them relatively easily.
#
aaronpk
i'm skeptical
#
aaronpk
flickr supposedly does auto upload but it's not very good
#
tommorris
Dropbox's auto-upload works reasonably well.
#
aaronpk
dropbox's is the best
#
aaronpk
they actually use the background location things to wake up and upload photos when you move around
#
aaronpk
major hack but it works
#
tommorris
I'll test it out. My plan is dump everything into an S3 inbox. then have some code that handles the file from S3 (makes sized images, notifies web server). ideally, I'd take a photo, then go to my site and it'd already be there ready to post into my stream.
#
tommorris
that said, customer reviews on that app look pretty crap
#
aaronpk
huh i'm tempted to try that out
#
aaronpk
it's $3 USD tho, not exactly cheap
#
aaronpk
hey it supports webdav! you could write a webdav handler on your web server to do all the processing immediately!
#
aaronpk
hm I was *this close* to resurrecting my dropbox->flickr sync script but I might just try this instead
#
tantek
Wednesday's HWC will be 1 year of HWC meetups!
#
tantek
looks like Portland is not happening? :/
#
aaronpk
unfortunately I have another event that evening
#
tantek
can you find anyone else to help run Portland HWC? co-host?
#
sparverius
i feel like photo auto upload should be solved in terms of battery usage
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
aaronpk
meh I chew through so much battery that I don't even care if it adds to the usage
#
sparverius
if wifi then upload. if mobile and not low battery then batch and upload lower res version.
#
aaronpk
no way! I definitely want the full-res always
#
sparverius
well upload the full res later
#
tantek
sparverius - what what if wifi AND mobile (i.e. mifi) ?
#
sparverius
since most phones have a data cap
#
tantek
it's not so either or
#
sparverius
well you cant reasonably know if you're on a mifi or not so fuck that use case
brianlov_ joined the channel
#
sparverius
i mean you can but
#
tantek
check what IP your coming in from etc.
#
sparverius
yeah but that's hacky
#
tantek
same way that freenode requires SASL from mifis
#
sparverius
and most phones dont need a mifi
#
tantek
but it's done in practice
#
tantek
so it must be somehow doable - just need to care
#
sparverius
i mean if you hook your phone to a mifi, the expected behavior is that the phone's going to act like it's on wifi
#
sparverius
and id rather have a slightly worse but consistent behavior than really smart but occasionally messes up
#
tantek
expected behavior - whatever is best for the user :)
#
reedstrm
there's also diff. use cases: live post just for personal archive/control, and live post to avoid loss-of-picture if loss-of-camera occurs (equipment failure or 3rd party action)
#
sparverius
yeah, i have been thinking about that
#
sparverius
for the former, as long as it happens eventually (within a day), i think it's fine
#
reedstrm
An option to ship a low res as 'better than nothing' seems like a good thing.
#
sparverius
for the latter, the compressed version is part of the reason for that
#
sparverius
i think as devices become more location aware, you'll be able to fold things like "if !connectedToFitbit then ohShitIveBeenLost()"
#
sparverius
but anyways tldr the reason ive been thinking about it is that i set up a new phone, and google plus photo always gets my compressed images, but i dont really think of those as "backed up"
#
reedstrm
hehe: I want to see the code for that later method :-)
#
sparverius
and im using that doubletwist photo sync which seems to work well, but i'd love for it to be over the internet vs requiring that i'm at home
#
sparverius
incidentally, my phone has a 20MP camera and can shoot 4k video, so bandwidth and cpu/battery usage for compression are becoming real issues :/
#
reedstrm
sadly, the pixel count wars have subsided in real cameras, but continue in phone-attached-cameras.
#
reedstrm
s/real/single purpose/
#
Loqi
reedstrm meant to say: sadly, the pixel count wars have subsided in single purpose cameras, but continue in phone-attached-cameras.
#
sparverius
reedstrm: it's a really good sensor, pixel count aside. they're using it to compensate for lack of physical zoom... for better or for worse :/
#
sparverius
but im seriously running into issues with self hosting regarding bandwidth usage
#
reedstrm
right - it's all about the glass (lens systems) theses days. That's an interesting trade, though. Esp. if they squeeze in OIS
#
sparverius
sony seems to think super highly of their camera software, so much so that if you unlock the bootloader, you lose the drm keys for it
#
reedstrm
Sony thinks super highly of anything they license to you: and even your own stuff. cf: sony root kit
#
sparverius
actually in the case of their phones, they've been extremely open, even sending code back to AOSP before releasing the new OS
#
sparverius
im okay not having proprietary stabilization if it means i can have cyanogenmod and appops
#
reedstrm
Huh, that's good to hear. Typical big-corp with many personalities, I guess.
tilgovi joined the channel
#
sparverius
yeah it's why i bought a sony. it was basically that or OPO or nexus or motorola, and none of them made phones that i could use with one hand
#
reedstrm
prehaps this should be #indiechat :-)
Sebastien-L and fiatjaf joined the channel
#
sparverius
good call
snarfed, verdi_ and gr0k joined the channel
#
GWG
Camera talk I see.
snarfed joined the channel
#
GWG
Hi, snarfed.
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
snarfed
hey GWG
#
GWG
How are things?
herbsmn joined the channel
#
GWG
Hello, KartikPrabhu.
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu, I was inspired by your site.
#
KartikPrabhu
that's a good thing :P
#
aaronpk
man flickr has been getting really unreliable for me lately
#
aaronpk
and now that I think about it, some of the main reasons for using it in the first place no longer apply
#
aaronpk
mainly the integration with mac apps like Skitch, and a host of good upload tools
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu, I do spend a lot of time looking at design elements.
#
KartikPrabhu
GWG: what did you gt inspired by?
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu, I rewrote my Facepile code to separate by mention type.
#
GWG
I was looking to update the design.
#
GWG
Also I put in a toggle for a comment form. In case I want to bring it back.
#
GWG
Yesterday was a busy day.
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu, I obsess sometimes about details.
alanpearce, benjamin-agaric, SRCR_, j12t, snarfed, hodlr, gr0k and eschnou joined the channel
alanpearce, gr0k, friedcell, KartikPrabhu, fmarier and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek
good afternoon #indiewebcamp!
alanpearce_ and brianloveswords joined the channel
#
GWG
Good afternoon.
#
reedstrm
good day to you all.
#
snarfed
congrats on running IWC online, GWG! (and ben_thatmust!)
#
snarfed
looks like it was a success
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
bret
yeah thanks GWG and ben_thatmustbeme !
#
GWG
ben_thatmustbeme++
#
bret
i wasn't able to make it due to school :(
#
Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 30 karma
#
bret
GWG++
#
Loqi
GWG has 33 karma
#
Loqi
aww, cheer up
#
bret
ben_thatmustbeme++
#
Loqi
dude
friedcell joined the channel
#
GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: I don't they are giving you enough.
#
bear
ben_thatmustbeme++
#
Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 31 karma
#
bear
gwg++
#
Loqi
gwg has 34 karma
#
bret
tantek: were you planning to use that for posting code diffs?
#
bret
13:24 <tantek> bret - yes, *all* kinds of diffs
#
tantek
http://tantek.com/w/Whistle#design specifically 'd' for "diff, edit, change"
#
tantek
yes, all kinds of diffs
#
tantek
a diff post is a special kind of reply, that indicates a set of suggested changes to the post it is replying to.
#
tantek
what is a diff?
#
Loqi
An edit (AKA diff, change) is a type of post http://indiewebcamp.com/diff
#
bret
thats a page i have never read
#
tantek
oh hey I should expand that dfn
#
bret
basically the idea that popped into my head was posting of a git patch to a permalink
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
bret
marking it up, so that the diff is identifiable and adding action buttons
#
tantek.com
edited /edit (+180) "expand dfn to be more specific"
(view diff)
#
bret
would be a lightweight form of a pull request, and totally comparable with indieweb flow
#
mko
bret: I've actually got a "pull-request" template type already made, but not implemented because I've not had a reason to do it yet.
#
tantek
bret - perhaps you could add that as a new user scenario subsection to the Why section of /edit : http://indiewebcamp.com/edit#Why
#
bret
mko: sweet! i'm not sure the target of the WM yet... maybe if I have a permalink page for a repo/branches on my site (with syndication links to GH)
#
bret
tantek: yeah good call
#
tantek
I vaguely recall some brainstorming about how to do edit posts
#
mko
Maybe. I don't know how you'd syndicate a PR to GitHub really.
#
tantek
how to publish them
#
tantek
however I don't remember what we said
#
tantek
and I didn't see anything captured on the wiki
#
tantek
so it can't have been that clever/important
#
tantek
or perhaps we thought we could re-brainstorm whatever we came up with
#
bret
mko: you wouldn't have to. but then again this is all getting super complicated.... just making a post with a single diff of a specific repo would be enough.
#
bret
tantek: there is some documentation about how to mark up post update edits.. you and barnaby have that iirc
#
mko
Hm. I guess so.
#
tantek
bret - oh? I forget where
#
reedstrm
bret: simple is important, but scaling to a more complex workflow is good, too.
#
bret
i wast just looking at it the other day
#
reedstrm
a text diff and a code diff may be very diff. animals. ...
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
bret
reedstrm: git diffs/patches are just a block of text iirc
#
reedstrm
yes, but context is everything.
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
bret
tantek: edits/updates via ins del html elements.... https://waterpigs.co.uk/articles/blogging-policy/ briefly mentioned here http://indiewebcamp.com/posts and i have seen you use it on older posts
#
tantek
that's different - ins/del are for inline edits
#
tantek
/ updates
#
tantek
an actual edit/diff *post* itself would (should need) not contain the entirety of the original - though I suppose that's an easy but dumb way to do updates/edits.
#
tantek
just a complete replacement e-content for whatever it is in-reply-to
#
bret.io
edited /edit (+347) "/* Why */ Added "Lightweight Pull Request" Idea"
(view diff)
#
tantek
perhaps if the in-reply-to URL had a fragment referring to a specific paragraph id, then the edit post could contain "only" the replacement for that entire paragraph
j12t joined the channel
#
tantek
perhaps if the in-reply-to URL had a fragmention referring to a specific phrase, then the edit post could contain *only* the replacement for that entire specific phrase
#
bret
:) i like it..... crosses fingers the ##fragmention is specific enough
#
Jeena
fuck wrong chanel
#
tantek
perhaps if the in-reply-to URL included *two* fragmentions referring to a specific start and end phrase, then the edit post could contain only the replacement for that entire range of content from start to end phrase
#
reedstrm
tantek: have been thinking about adding that very bit to an editor API we're using - eventually to support sync with simultaneous/collaborative editing
j12t joined the channel
#
reedstrm
gotta be careful about the underlying structure, of you do two pointers ...
j12t joined the channel
#
bret
this is an example of a git patch file: https://gist.github.com/bcomnes/544a3373834d3ee73b75 its just text, so posting it to a permalink with a target url would be what is required to send a WM-pr
scor joined the channel
#
bret
what the target should be.... i'm not sure. the easiest would just be a page representing the repo.
#
bret
the diff specifies the parent commit
sh4l joined the channel
#
reedstrm
bret in the context of the repo, yes.
#
aaronpk
sending a post with the diff would not be a webmention
#
aaronpk
a webmention would be hosting the diff on your site, the nsending a webmention with the two URLs
#
reedstrm
aaronpk: yes, that's how I see it.
#
aaronpk
the source would need a basic mf2 structure that contained the target URL as well as the patch file
#
bret
Right. Was trying to say that basically ;)
#
aaronpk
like <div class="h-entry"><a href="example" class="u-target"></a> <pre><code class="u-diff"></code></pre></div>
#
aaronpk
s/u-diff/e-diff
#
Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: like <div class="h-entry"><a href="example" class="u-target"></a> <pre><code class="e-diff"></code></pre></div>
#
tantek
except I question putting the patch in a separate file and not just inline in the post
#
aaronpk
that's what I meant, in the <code> block
#
tantek
not sure why so many classes are needed either
#
tantek
we already have "e-content"
#
aaronpk
well you need something to indicate that this is a patch, not just a post of regular text
#
tantek
pretty sure it is workable with just *one* new classname, similar to like/repost
#
reedstrm
tantek: isn't the patch inline in the <pre><code> section in aaronpk's example?
#
tantek
like u-update-of
#
tantek
which implies that the e-content of the edit post should replace the e-content of the in-reply-to URL
#
tantek
or lacking an e-content at the in-reply-to URL, the entirety of what is at that URL
#
tantek
no need for u-target - there's already u-in-reply-to
#
tantek
also - why prematurely optimize the markup for just code? I'd think little prose wiki edits would be more common
#
tantek
hence why I documented those use cases on /edit
#
tantek
note that by "simply" (re-)using u-in-reply-to, you can reply to /edit posts as well with another /edit post - to patch a patch as it were
#
tantek
and for any client that doesn't understand edit/update semantics, they'll still show it sensibly as a thread
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
reedstrm
tantek: I'm not seeing this as the serialization format for an edit-mechanism. Coders can talk in patches, much like maths type talk in mathematical statements and proofs. A patch can be a statement of it's own.
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
reedstrm
Or am I a rep. of a fading dinosaur class, for reading patches? :-)
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
aaronpk
ok here's an example
scor joined the channel
#
reedstrm
right -perfectly readable for me, even though I don't know the codebase. I'd +1 that or sign off, or extend the discussion w/ a short form post rebmentioning back to it, etc. W/o having to apply it to a repo.
#
tantek
aaronpk, I'm not sure replicating a specific software's one-off textual diff format is a good longterm strategy
#
tantek
e.g. does it even have a MIME type ?
#
tantek
text/x-github-patch ?
#
tantek
or something?
#
tantek
MediaWiki diffs look much more readable
#
tantek
for example
#
reedstrm
Exactly: the 'comment' box there should be my own.
#
aaronpk
I don't understand what you mean
#
aaronpk
that's the standard patch file format
#
tantek
lol standard patch file format
#
aaronpk
lots of tools support it
#
reedstrm
tantek the format isn't github's it's git's - it's a standard patch w/ amil headers for some extra metadata
#
tantek
URL to the standard for this patch file format?
#
Jeena
it is the diff format
#
reedstrm
s/amil/email/
#
Loqi
reedstrm meant to say: tantek the format isn't github's it's git's - it's a standard patch w/ email headers for some extra metadata
#
Jeena
it is diff in a mail
#
tantek
hey if you're going to call it "standard", you're going to have to provide a URL to said "standard".
#
reedstrm
I'm sure it's part of the SUS , no need for scare quotes
#
tantek
Jeena - thanks, that's at least a man page for implementation "patch" of said "difference listing"
#
aaronpk
i would hate to have to parse that mediawiki html to apply the diff
#
tantek
and reedstrm - again, that's software documentation, not a format spec
#
aaronpk
but yeah i'm all for prettying up the presentation of the diff file like github does
#
reedstrm
I find the context diff more directly readable, as well.
#
tantek
aaronpk - I'm not advocating the format of the mediawiki HTML!
#
tantek
I'm pointing out the *presentation* is better
#
tantek
than that text line diff thing
#
aaronpk
but you need something machine-readable underneath
#
tantek
sure, that's what we're good at figuring out here
#
tantek
however you must start with something human readable on top
#
tantek
like *nicely* human readable
#
tantek
saying, here's a diff text thing, good enough, is as bad as the pingback folks with there "… nonsense …" text
#
aaronpk
i dunno, i read the diff format all the time when i'm coding, it's not that bad. certainly github's red/green coloring is better but...
#
tantek
exactly, and some people read MIME headers, or .vcf, or .ics or CSV, or some other one-off text format
#
tantek
and we don't pick those because the UX sucks
#
Jeena
tantek but doesn't github offter this nice frontend for diffs you're talking about when you say nice representation?
#
aaronpk
also I suspect there are plenty of open source libraries for generating pretty html versions of diff listings
#
tantek
we instead pick something where the UX is fairly *good* (competitive with the best in silos / software out there), and then make sure there's markup underneath to make it machine readable. not vice versa
#
tantek
Jeena - then cite the new frontend views of diffs from github that you speak of
#
aaronpk
that's basically waht i'm getting at with this whole exercise... started with github's diff view (link I gave previously)
#
tantek
oh second link
#
tantek
I only clicked the first
#
aaronpk
exactly. i was proposing markup that could be added to github's diff URL to make it mf2 parsable
#
aaronpk
also note that github's version is actually the diff format but just styled with css. it even has the + - markers
#
tantek
ok - that probably should get captured on the wiki as an example then
#
tantek
because that's not obvious at all
#
Jeena
it says: commit 78aea731f5bb2564cffe155c9ac9591ccc43cef4 ;)
#
tantek
aaronpk, the commit you pointed to - looks different than an *edit*. It looks like a *collection* of edits.
#
aaronpk
it's a single edit of multiple files
#
tantek
collection of two edits
#
aaronpk
a pull request URL is a collection of multiple edits
#
reedstrm
tantek: you didn't read down: yes that's a man page format, but it's also IEEE Std 1003.1 2013, and give complete implementable details in the STDOUT section, complete w/ IEEE 'shall' language.
#
tantek
is that also a "changeset"? or is that something different?
#
Jeena
hm but it is not easy to find a description of the diff patch format
#
tantek
reedstrm - right, it was tl;dr, too many pages to scroll down to see anything relevant so it looked just like more software docs
#
reedstrm
Jeena - I feel your pain. I think the links we both found are in fact it.
#
tantek
a format spec should be self-standing
#
aaronpk
for example this pull request contains 7 commits (edits) https://github.com/esripdx/geobin.io/pull/100/commits
#
tantek
it shouldn't need to be embedded in some specific software documentation!
#
tantek
is it implementation dependent? or is there a test suite for it and other implementations?
#
tantek
"Unified Format" - nice name. heh.
#
aaronpk
no that 's not the same thing
#
tantek
and this is why we ask for URL to standards
#
aaronpk
"I couldn't find a thorough spec for the format called "unified diff" so I decided to research it. Here are my findings."
#
tantek
looks for commondiff.org
#
Jeena
hehe I found http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=164293 which states: "I couldn't find a thorough spec for the format called "unified diff" so I decided to research it. Here are my findings. "
#
tantek
oh hey look at that - commondiff.org is available - who wants to write and post / host the spec? ;)
chrissaad joined the channel
#
reedstrm
That's 2006 - the Open Group I think they had another name w/ Unic in it then) was making you pay for docs back then.
#
tantek
what is standard patch file format?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "standard patch file format" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=standard+patch+file+format
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /edit (+146) "/* Silo Examples */ add example of a github diff URL and clarify pull requests are a collection of commits"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /edit (+117) "pull request / patch is a *collection* of edits"
(view diff)
#
bret
i was just presuming the diff contents would be diff format agnostic.
#
bret
with the primary idea of just doing git patch style diffs (for code)
#
tantek
bret - hence I proposed a simple *non* diff format
#
tantek
that is, an update / replacement
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /webmention.io (+205) "add link to jekyll plugin"
(view diff)
#
KartikPrabhu
oh hmm yeah rSVPing now
chrissaad joined the channel
#
tantek
s/anyone/anyone else/
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: and is anyone else coming to HWC SF? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-11-19-homebrew-website-club#RSVP
#
bret
the the type of diff is really decided by the target... which knows what it represents to some degree... i.e. received a wm with a diff in it... I am a git repo.. therefore this can only be a git patch diff... or this is a diff.. I'm a note, so this can only be some kind of prose diff... apply if approved and valid format
#
tantek
bret - that's as silly as saying the type of the note is decided by the target
#
tantek
the target is only a POSSE destination
#
tantek
so if it needs something specific, like a proprietary API call, then you do that as part of POSSEing to it
#
tantek
you don't contort your own site into whatever *a* POSSE destination needs
#
benatkin_
I'd like to go to the HWC. friggin' startup though :/
#
benatkin
might still be able to make it
#
bret
i think I'm not making sense
#
bret
bbiab to clarify
#
tantek
what ^^^ that /notebook/ domain doesn't make sense
#
aaronpk
it's a relative redirect that is missing the host :(
#
aaronpk
oh it's hosted on github pages. they do weird stuff.
#
tantek
bret - I just think it's a bad idea to start posting stuff that's more machine than human readable
#
@aaronpk
@AaronGustafson awesome! Now if you connect https://www.brid.gy/ you'll start seeing all your Twitter replies as webmentions!
(twitter.com/_/status/534478580592300032)
#
tantek
bret - just look at all the design work that aaronpk has done to post nice human undertstandable aaronparecki.com/metrics - instead of just raw lists of lat/longs, or other CSV data dumps
#
tantek
same reason you shouldn't be posting raw plain text diff files
#
bret
right it wouldn't be raw.... it would be styled after the PR thread opening post
#
bret
like on github
#
aaronpk
yeah basically i'd add some tags and css to make it look like github. I think the mf2 parser would even result in the plaintext diff-compatible format as the "text" of the e-content
#
Jeena
hm my comment doesn't show up on aaron-gustafsons website, I wonder if this is my or his fault
#
aaronpk
Jeena: could be mine as well ;)
chrissaad and myfreeweb joined the channel
#
Jeena
uhm why your? I assume you are not Aaron Gustafson?
#
aaronpk
cause he's using webmention.io
#
aaronpk
oh i think he might need to regenerate the jekyll site
#
aaronpk
cause they're not brought in via javascript
scor joined the channel
#
bret
diff code could start collapsed as well
#
@jeena
@AaronGustafson I tried to answer via a webmention but it doesn't show up on your website, is it my fault or your? ;)
(twitter.com/_/status/534481234895069184)
#
@AaronGustafson
@aaronpk Next I need to add the JS-based streaming support (for between publishes).
(twitter.com/_/status/534481345482096640)
#
bret
i want to post a gif of a screen cap going to File -> Print as an answer to permanence
#
tantek
bret - how about print to laser etched titanium sheets? you know, just in case of fire
#
reedstrm
from the Long Now folks :-)
#
tantek
now if only the Long Now folks would actually host their media somewhere more permanent instead of on silos
#
tantek
audio, video, etc
danlyke and reedstrm joined the channel
#
snarfed
(doesn't address your complaint; just related)
benjamin-agaric and gr0k joined the channel
#
tantek
snarfed, given the audio/video storage at archive.org - seems like an obvious thing