#indiewebcamp 2014-12-09

2014-12-09 UTC
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snarfed
colintedford: yup, understood. you'll probably appreciate http://brid.gy/ once you support webmentions
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colintedford.com
edited /User:Colintedford.com (+42) "/* Current setup & practices */ POSSE-ing my replies to new FB comments"
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snarfed
…which should be pretty easy since you're on wordpress. http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#webmention
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colintedford
snarfed: For sure! I'm hesitant to add to many new functions to my Wordpress right now b/c I'm still dreaming about using something else
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snarfed
out of curiosity, why?
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colintedford
Plus I'm focused on more basic site work. But I suspect I'll end up just hooking the ol' WP anyway.
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colintedford
snarfed: Security updates + /database-antipattern (which didn't create the desire, just helped support my layperson discomfort with databases & my growing love of plain text).
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aaronpk
plaintext++
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Loqi
plaintext has 1 karma
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colintedford
I like a lot about Wordpress, though.
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GWG
colintedford: Any way we could convince you to stay?
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snarfed
colintedford: me too, i use it
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colintedford
GWG: It'll probably be a while before I leave, assuming I actually do!
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snarfed
fwiw, auto updates have improved the security story. (and database-antipattern is controversial and imho overstated, but that's a tar pit…)
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aaronpk
auto-updates scare the crap out of me
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colintedford
snarfed: True about the updates.
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GWG
colintedford: I have been working on WordPress Indieweb stuff, and am always looking to advance the cause
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GWG
aaronpk: They have choices. They only automatically push security fixes.
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aaronpk
that's good
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GWG
You can change it, but that is the default.
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GWG
Major releases are not automatically updated, but there is a setting to change that
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colintedford
snarfed: & Yeah, I've seen the db-ap back & forth & I know it's not gospel, but it resonates with me.
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colintedford
snarfed: Mind, I'm mostly a layperson & possibly prone to overcomplicating things in the name of simplifying ;)
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snarfed
colintedford: definitely. one way to decide is, estimate the work it'll take you to migrate, vs the work it'll take you to maintain your db over the next N years
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colintedford
snarfed: Yes. Also what kind of work & whether it's fun or not.
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colintedford
GWG: Yeah, I've been reading the old chat logs; I'm glad Wordpress is getting attention.
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colintedford
aaronpk: I came across /kirby-login-app while reading the chat logs.
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aaronpk
oh yeah!
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colintedford
I haven't caught up to prsent day & know it's late, but did anyone mention http://getkirby.com/ ?
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aaronpk
yes :(
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aaronpk
i met them in germany actually!
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aaronpk
he was like "aw your app sounds like a way better use for that name"
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colintedford
Oh, nice!
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colintedford
Well, there are only so many names in the world :)
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aaronpk
i suppose i could call it "Kirby Login"
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aaronpk
the dog is just too cute
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aaronpk
it's Kerberos, or "Kirby" for short
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KevinMarks
Snarfed: switch www.unmung.com to it too
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aaronpk
Kerberos being the hound of Hades
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snarfed
KevinMarks: aha. should be in the app engine section of your google apps admin page. try… https://admin.google.com/unmung.com/AdminHome?fral=1#AppEngineApps:
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colintedford
aaronpk: I think "Kirby Login" could be mistaken for a login plugin for the other Kirby.
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aaronpk
i just really like the name and I don't often come up with cool names
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colintedford
They're different kinds of apps so it's prolly not that big a deal that they share a name.
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colintedford
Plenty of humans have the same name and it works out OK!
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snarfed
sharingnames++
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Loqi
sharingnames has 1 karma
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aaronpk
...as evidenced by my portfolio of services... indieauth.com, webmention.io (formerly pingback.me)
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snarfed
absolute name uniqueness is overrated imho
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aaronpk
of course step 1 is actually building the damn app
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snarfed
(and more importantly, almost impossible)
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snarfed
nah step 1 was the first design, which you did!
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aaronpk
maybe that's step 2. step 1 is that wiki page which is a pretty good outline/design
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finchd
aww, kirby isn't a Kerberos login app, but a GPG one? Kerberos service ticket auth would be cool
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finchd
name-overlap is normally fine, but but when you are providing the same service....
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colintedford
Or when kids are named after their parents, undermining the very purpose of a name :)
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finchd
The Kerberos auth protocol has been around since the 1980s, is how Windows AD authenticates, and under active development
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peterwilson.cc
created /User:Peterwilson.cc (+495) "Created user page with basic details of setup"
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KevinMarks
!tell snarfed thanks - I was trying to use the sites admin to do it and that didn't work
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks
Aaronpk I am now imagining a version of the pink kirby character with 3 heads
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: do you have notes anywhere on your micropub implementation?
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colintedford
KevinMarks: That Kirby doesn't have much head-body separation so I'm curious what exactly you're picturing (I'm sure it can't easily be put in words). Anyway, http://colintedford.com/2014/12/08.2120-kirby-kerberos/ cc: aaronpk
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aaronpk
bahahahaha
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colintedford
I'm too lazy to revise it, but feel free to imagine that Kirby w/ a word balloon w/ a GPG key in it.
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aaronpk
love it
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub (-15) "/* Endpoint Discovery */"
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joshwnj, simonv3_, lupinedev, j12t, KevinMarks_, alexhartley, carlo_au and indie-visitor joined the channel
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor
What's up all?
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indie-visitor
I need a little starting advice setting up my POSSE
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GWG
What sort of advice?
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indie-visitor
Well... I figure I'll start with notes
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GWG
Go on.
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indie-visitor
Posse'ing to twitter, FB status, G+ based on my preference
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GWG
From where?
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indie-visitor
and I just can't seem to find a lot of source code from other folks doing it.
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GWG
What are you using for your site?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "you using for your site" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+using+for+your+site
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indie-visitor
Yeah... from my site... which is about to be built from scratch based on all this
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GWG
Well, G+ has no write API
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indie-visitor
ok... so that's out... no prob
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GWG
If you get webmention and microformats set up, you can use Bridgy
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indie-visitor
I was looking into bridgy
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indie-visitor
Is webmention + micro formats using bridgy the way to go?
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GWG
It only does publish for 2 things.
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GWG
It does however, do backfeed for more
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indie-visitor
Can you explain backfeed?
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GWG
Webmention is the backbone of the Indieweb
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GWG
Backfeed is the other way round
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indie-visitor
Gotcha... so silo to website
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GWG
Importing comments from Facebook, Twitter, G+ back to your site.
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indie-visitor
gotcha
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indie-visitor
Sorry... just learning this terminology.
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GWG
Yes
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GWG
There is also a term for posting on silos and bringing it back to your site.
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indie-visitor
Which is?
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GWG
PESOS
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GWG
Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate to your Own Site
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indie-visitor
gotcha... makes sense
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GWG
I prefer POSSE
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GWG
But I have trouble with it
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GWG
Because you have to get the setup right
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indie-visitor
POSSE seems more ideal
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indie-visitor
Is ther anyone with source code out there that does this decently, or do we/I need to build it?
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GWG
Well, there are a lot of libraries for interfacing to the APIs of various services.
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indie-visitor
Seems like it'd be delicate w/ api changes and all
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indie-visitor
Cool
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GWG
I have changing solutions on my list, because I sometimes have to manually POSSE because the automation doesn't work.
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indie-visitor
I just didn't know if I was missing some obvious starting point or what
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GWG
What language?
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indie-visitor
but sounds like it's still wide open out here in indie world
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indie-visitor
which is a good excuse to dive into something
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indie-visitor
Python
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GWG
indie-visitor: We like it that way
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indie-visitor
me too!!!
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indie-visitor
I'm gonna fit in here, I think!
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indie-visitor
I'll be back later. Need to register my domain and such. Should be listed as JHSheridan next time I come around.
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GWG
Bridgy is written in Python.
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indie-visitor
Thanks for the advice friend
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indie-visitor
Is bridgy source open source?
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indie-visitor
I just looked breifly
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GWG
indie-visitor: kylewm and KartikPrabhu, who are both active in here, use Python in their site
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GWG
It is. And written in Python, I believe
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indie-visitor
awessommmm
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indie-visitor
So this IRC is pretty active?
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KartikPrabhu
hark! who calleth!?
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GWG
indie-visitor: Yes
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indie-visitor
lol... what's up brother/sister?
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GWG
KartikPrabhu: indie-visitor as yet unidentified uses Python and is looking for resources to build their site
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indie-visitor
I'm a pythonista and I'm about to start my indieweb journey
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indie-visitor
I'm about to leave this coffee shop, but I'll be back in a bit. Hopefully will be talking w/ you all soon.
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KartikPrabhu
indie-visitor: cool! see you soon on here again!
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indie-visitor
great!!!
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GWG
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 80 karma
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aaronpk
aww we didn't get to find out who indie-visitor is
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aaronpk
Next time you can ask if they have a domain name already, that's a good intro question
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wolftune
aaronpk: yo, how's it going?
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: I will. I missed their first appearance
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JHSheridan
What's up guys?
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JHSheridan
and gals
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JHSheridan
I was on here earlier as <indie-user> and just wanted to say thanks for the help form you guys. I should be in and around and asking quesdtions the next few days of you all. Looking forward to going indie.
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KartikPrabhu
hi JHSheridan
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JHSheridan
Hi... You're a pythonista, right?
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KartikPrabhu
I use python for my site yes :)
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JHSheridan
Mind sharing a link?
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KartikPrabhu
i hesistate to call myself pythonists as I learnt python while making my site
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JHSheridan
Same here
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KartikPrabhu
Do you have a domain already?
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JHSheridan
Yeah... JHSheridan.com
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JHSheridan
It's Jekyll powered
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JHSheridan
But I'm moving to python for this project
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JHSheridan
Probably will be pelican + custom POSSE stuff
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JHSheridan
At least that makes sense in my head, but that's why I'm here.
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snarfed
JHSheridan: welcome!
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Loqi
snarfed: KevinMarks left you a message 6 hours, 6 minutes ago: thanks - I was trying to use the sites admin to do it and that didn't work
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KartikPrabhu
static sites are good IMO. much simples
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JHSheridan
amazing... amazing... just what I needed.
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JHSheridan
thank you people!
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KartikPrabhu
JHSheridan: this also might be useful: http://indiewebcamp.com/python
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JHSheridan
snarfed: I'm trying to wrap my head around activity streams
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snarfed
JHSheridan: are you familiar with the different social networks' APIs? or just the idea of them?
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JHSheridan
Is it just a common API for the social APIs?
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snarfed
they're different silos, but at their core, the data looks similar. posts, comments, likes, etc
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JHSheridan
or a library, I guess?
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snarfed
it's a common format, yes
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JHSheridan
So I don't have to implement twitter/fb/g+/etc all differently?
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snarfed
activitystreams is, at least. my project is a library and hosted API that can fetch from all four (and post to two) using AS format
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snarfed
exactly
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JHSheridan
I can implement once in activitystreams and it translates
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JHSheridan
amazing
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KartikPrabhu
JHSheridan: snarfed has been kind enough to abtract the silo APIs for us! :)
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KartikPrabhu
is failing at spelling right now
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snarfed
having said that, other people here have implemented POSSE to different silos directly in python - KartikPrabhu, kylewm, bear, others
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snarfed
JHSheridan: definitely compare and see if you think AS is worth it for you
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JHSheridan
Doing it right now
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JHSheridan
Care to sway me one way or the other? Personal bias is okay
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JHSheridan
thank you elf
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KartikPrabhu
JHSheridan: snarfed: I actually don;t have automatic POSSE but it is on my to-do list using activity streams. so I would highly recommend it
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snarfed
JHSheridan: is your main use case reading or writing?
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JHSheridan
I think I'll continue to consume most of my content in-silo
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JHSheridan
So writing I guess
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JHSheridan
but maybe I should rethink that too
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KartikPrabhu
also as snarfed says often, "do it manually till it hurts, then code it" :P
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snarfed
activitystreams-unofficial is great for reading, but arguably just good for writing, since it only supports FB and twitter
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 81 karma
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elf-pavlik
JHSheridan, another activitystream based 'polyglot' server http://sockethub.org/
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JHSheridan
niceeee
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JHSheridan
you people are great
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snarfed
write as little code as possible, and only after you've done things manually and you're sure you want to automate them
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snarfed
sockethub++
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Loqi
sockethub has 1 karma
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elf-pavlik
snarfed++
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Loqi
dude
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KartikPrabhu
so much stuff is being thrown at JHSheridan right now :P
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JHSheridan
haha... this is what I needed
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KartikPrabhu
JHSheridan: I would recommend starting with http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started then maybe posting /notes ( http://indiewebcamp.com/notes ) and implementing webemention+bridgy for comments and backfeed
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KartikPrabhu
also Loqi is very helpful, you can ask him questions like:
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Loqi
who, me?
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JHSheridan
Yeah... after reading the wiki I got the sense that I should focus on notes
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KartikPrabhu
what is backfeed
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Loqi
Backfeed is the process of syndicating interactions on your POSSE copies back (AKA reverse syndicating) to your original posts https://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed
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JHSheridan
with webmentions as the backbone
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JHSheridan
Hi Loki!
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KartikPrabhu
What is Loqi?
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Loqi
Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel and other channels https://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: JHSheridan: good point. if you start with bridgy publish (https://www.brid.gy/about#publish), you don't have to implement POSSE yourself at all (at least FB and twitter)
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KartikPrabhu
yup! that is exactly what I do as a stop-gap at the moment
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JHSheridan
FB and TW are my main issues. With TW being much more important
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KartikPrabhu
writing your own POSSE code is a big project me thinks
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JHSheridan
So POSSE = me pushing to social
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JHSheridan
Backfeed is me pulling from silo
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KartikPrabhu
what is POSSE?
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Loqi
POSSE is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
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JHSheridan
Gotcha
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KartikPrabhu
JHSheridan: no need to worry about the jargon. You seem to know what you want to do :)
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@tedder42
@stevelle so much for my crappy indieweb CSS, this is a much saner photo gallery. http://photoswipe.com/
(twitter.com/_/status/542253891622952961)
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@hugoroyd
@tante trying to make hosting of @indiewebcamp technologies easier
(twitter.com/_/status/542260519332106240)
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@MrNeilScott
@jamiehannaford I agree but maybe it doesn't need to. As long as it is open and hostable (eg https://owncloud.com/ http://indiewebcamp.com/)
(twitter.com/_/status/542283857064906752)
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@IndieHosters
@MrNeilScott @jamiehannaford We're already offering #indieweb hosting, #ownCloud hosting is underway, and we will offer Ind.ie hosting asap
(twitter.com/_/status/542285194171285504)
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Was it you who commented on my timezone issue?
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ShaneHudson
Hey everyone, I've not been in here for far too long!
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ShaneHudson
Just wondering if there has been any interest in having a distributed network of "what's hot" kind of links. So each site would give stats on outgoing links. Aggregate them all together and you get a near real-time automated hacker news style tracker. Without needing to mannually add and vote for links, just see which links people are posting about.
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ShaneHudson
Technically would work for any site, but seems particularly useful for indieweb :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
GWG maybe, I have been known to look at timezone issues on people's sites
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ben_thatmustbeme
hey ShaneHudson
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: I finally got to fixing it
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Loqi
giggles
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ben_thatmustbeme
ShaneHudson, what do you mean by stats on outgoing links? how many people clicked on them? I think you might be better off just polling people's h-feed for links (assuming they have some way to filter like that)
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snarfed
ShaneHudson: cool! sounds like the kind of thing that could maybe fit into https://snarfed.org/indie-stats
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ShaneHudson
ben_thatmustbeme: Not quite. Just which links are available.
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ShaneHudson
So basically like polling but would be far more scalable if each person (less practical I know) held their own information in an cron-updated json file or something
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ShaneHudson
Then you can crawl over each of those files, instead of people's entire sites. To easily work out which people are posting about what and what might be relevant etc.
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ShaneHudson
Just a thought I had while in my natural computation lecture haha
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Loqi
nice
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ben_thatmustbeme
I haven't heard from bear in a while about indie-stats
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Maybe he's been busy.
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GWG
It's been quiet around here of late. Might be the season
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ben_thatmustbeme
ShaneHudson: yeah though as you point out less practical. What about just getting people to have a feed of any post that has a link, thus at least filtering posts at least
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ben_thatmustbeme
GWG, I think so, things have been pretty busy for me too
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: I recall you forked two projects and merged their codebases.
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GWG
Or so you mentioned at IWC Online, I believe.
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GWG
But, I need to buckle down and do some of my IWC plans. Just never enough time.
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ben_thatmustbeme
i have been keeping up with a little bit of updating. been updating php-mf2 and php-comments recently. My next big push will be full photo tagging support
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: I have been writing some basic functions off of php-mf2 to get data into WordPress.
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KartikPrabhu
poo! my auto-linker does not recognise .computer domain!
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GWG
Too many new TLDs?
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ben_thatmustbeme
its going to get increasingly difficult to autolink with all the new TLDs
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colintedford
I think I'm pretty OK with just having more mainstream TLDs autolink for me since they cover the majority of uses.
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colintedford
When someone other than you posts to your timeline on Facebonk ... how are people handling that in relation to their sites?
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KartikPrabhu
colintedford: yeah that is ok until you do want to use a new TLD site
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: I think those are called "guest posts" in blogging parlance
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Loqi
tantek: elf-pavlik left you a message 1 day, 5 hours ago: do you have any infulence on https://mozillians.org ? seeAlso: https://github.com/hackers4peace/plp-docs/issues/7
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: not me colintedford :P
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wolftune
tantek: hi
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tantek
well hello everyone :)
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wolftune
tantek: just working to spread the word, if you haven't seen it, Snowdrift.coop is doing a launch-fund-drive: snowdrift.tilt.com
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tantek
what is Snowdrift?
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Loqi
Snowdrift.coop is an in-progress platform for funding Free/Libre/Open projects of all sorts https://indiewebcamp.com/Snowdrift
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tantek
so it's a funding conduit?
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tantek
how is it related to indieweb?
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wolftune
tantek: yes, a coordination platform
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wolftune
you read about it and discussed with me a couple months ago… remember https://snowdrift.coop/p/snowdrift/w/en/snowdrift ?
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tantek
wolftune maybe I forgot about it because I didn't get the connection
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tantek
perhaps you could expand that wiki page with why it is relevant to indieweb?
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wolftune
it's not indie / distributed yet (is a someday-maybe goal) but it's about *funding* specifically free/libre/open projects
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tantek
csarven: lol
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csarven
Damn right.
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wolftune
so it's about supporting development of all the sorts of things that Indie is about, although we're a cooperative and centralized initially
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Loqi
hehe
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tantek
wolftune - then it might be offtopic for indieweb? I mean I see how it's about supporting open source in general which is great.
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csarven
Yes, I really did left that in for a paper to conf on eGov/Open*
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tantek
however if there's no "here's how you run snowdrift on your own domain" then it's not really indieweb
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csarven
Canonical copy at my site.
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tantek
csarven++
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Loqi
csarven has 3 karma
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csarven
Linked to SWAT0 just before
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colintedford
KartikPrabhu: I'm OK with hand-linking odd urls in the rare cases I might link to them (not that you have to be).
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wolftune
tantek: it isn't *really* indieweb at this point, although we'll have an API etc.
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wolftune
I don't claim it to be, but I do think you would be interested in what we're doing nonetheless
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colintedford
Or did you register a .computer?
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tantek
wolftune - having a centralized API doesn't make it any more indieweb either
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tantek
wolftune - I guess it's not my focus right now
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wolftune
we're meta
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tantek
if there's no indieweb connection
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KartikPrabhu
colintedford: well I put a link in my notes which are auto-linked plaintext
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tantek
let me know if/when you install snowdrift on your own personal domain
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wolftune
it's only tangential to indieweb at this point
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wolftune
like an allied project
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wolftune
but not indieweb itself
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tantek
csarven: you should share your paper with the W3C Social Web WG!
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tantek
e.g. on #social on irc.w3.org and note the relation to SWAT0 etc.
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tantek
wolftune, btw - you can now add your image to indiewebcamp.com/irc-people also!
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colintedford
KartikPrabhu: Oh right, so you can't link it; that is pretty annoying.
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tantek
csarven, you too - add yourself link & photo to indiewebcamp.com/irc-people !
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wolftune
tantek: cool, so um, I have an image somewhere on the site already, like when I attended IWC…
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KartikPrabhu
here is the auto-link fail just to be complete: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/magic-dirt-warrenellis
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csarven
Will do, thanks.
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colintedford
I forgot that "notes" are usually plaintext; I haven't made a very clear line between them & articles on my site.
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tantek
wolftune - you can always add more to your User: page too
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tantek
silly new TLDs
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wolftune
tantek: which silly TLDs do you mean there?
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KartikPrabhu
it is a great domain name for warrenellis but still... annoying that it broke my auto-linker
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: it's a silly TLD for anyone, including warrenellis
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KartikPrabhu
I mean he has used it cleverly to match his blog name. But yeah in general I don't know what .conputer is supposed to mean
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tantek
^^^ exactly (typo lol)
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csarven
Argh.. I have to run, but would have liked to discuss how IndieAuth works and the fact that it ends up relying on a 3rd party service get it going. (I can understand the happy middle ground)
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csarven
Figured one of the ideas was to DIY/ControlYourself, but for something like auth, it goes through another party.. some of which are not favoured for instance when it comes to making status updates ;)
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KartikPrabhu
csarven: IndieAuth can use GPG keys and you can act as your own authenticator
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tantek
csarven - the dependence is ephemeral - that's the point. you can use a different provider everytime you login, and the consuming site just uses *your domain* every time for your identity and doesn't even have to know what 3rd party service you used.
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colintedford
tantek: KartikPrabhu: "dot computers" are gonna be the next big thing after smartwatches :P
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colintedford
Depite being hard to use and easy to lose
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tantek
self-powered microdots :P
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tantek
colintedford++ lol
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Loqi
colintedford has 2 karma
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csarven
KartikPrabhu tantek Thanks. Will have to come back to this.. Gotta run :) Didn't mean to drop and "run away" :) Interesting topic and I'd like to see how I can integrate with what I'm working on http://csarven.ca/enabling-accessible-knowledge#identity
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anderson
anderson--
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Loqi
You can't karma yourself!
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csarven
FYI, the paper is more on the Linked Data end, but microformats and IndieWeb perspective can be easily integrated.
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csarven
"easily"
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anderson
Is this karma data also on the website?
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wolftune
tantek: so, I'm at http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Guest_List but have no user page… is there a clear way to just put the stuff from the guest list into my user page?
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tantek
wolftune: you have a User: page - by virtue of the fact that you've logged into the wiki
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wolftune
tantek: what I mean is more liek what I should do to make the page more than blank
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wolftune
like, can I / should I just import the stuff that I put on my attendee thing?
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aaronpk
do any current micropub implementations publish a Link: header, or just the <link> tag in HTML?
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wolftune.com
created /User:Wolftune.com (+165) "initial page"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub (+139) "add note to use array syntax for multiple categories"
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colintedford
When you post to someone else's timeline on Facebook, does it also appear on your own in some way?
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colintedford
(I just have a FB "page", not a "profile")
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colintedford
so I don't have all the same functions / see the same things as "regular" FB users.
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GWG
Colintrdfotd, be sure to check your privacy settings.
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colintedford
GWG: Pages don't have privacy settings that I know of; they're meant to be promotional.
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GWG
I thought they did about who could post to them. Will have to look into that.
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colintedford
I have one b/c I'm a cartoonist. Was wondering b/c someone posted to my timeline & I wasn
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GWG
I am not a very enthusiastic Facebook user.
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colintedford
't sure how to handle it re: my own site.
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colintedford
I think there are settings to restrict who can post, but not privacy.
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colintedford
Ditto re: enthusiasm.
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GWG
I always use the Willie Sutton logic for social networking.
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GWG
I'm there because that is where the people are.
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colintedford
Yes, exactly.
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GWG
I want to drive those people back to my site.
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colintedford
Anyway, tantek suggested handling "other-person-posts-to-your-timeline" as a "guest post", which is sensible
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GWG
Which is hard sometimes.
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tantek
colintedford: just based on previous existing behavior :)
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colintedford
but I was considering treating it like a comment / mention to my homepage
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GWG
I have an issue with that from an authorship and hcard point of view.
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colintedford
but that maybe makes less sense if it doesn't appear on their own timeline / profile somehwere too.
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GWG
I've not gotten to guest posts.
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GWG
Colintedford, there was a discussion recently about trying to decide how you know whether you should repost something.
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GWG
The general consensus was that you should.
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GWG
As long as you respect requests from the original person as appropriate
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colintedford
Yeah, I don't think I'm too into plain reposting. I did it on Tumblr b/c that's the thing there, but it doesn't feel right for me on my site.
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GWG
I need to review my Indiewebcamp priorities again.
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GWG
These discussions always make me want to do something sooner
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colintedford
"Guest post" is an appropriate frame, but that's not something I normally do & I don't have a clear picture of how I'd want to.
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GWG
Colintedford: Then that is your first question. What feels right?
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GWG
We have a lot of people here with good ideas, but at the end of the day...
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colintedford
I'm inclined to treat it as a mention to my homepage, which I would shunt off to a side feed w the other mentions
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colintedford
(in the future when that's the kind of setup I have :)
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colintedford
That fits pretty well w/ how my FB page currently displays them but I don't know what goes on on the poster's end.
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colintedford
If it doesn't really show up in their space then that framing might be iffy.
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GWG
So, default to that , and promote anything you think worthy
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GWG
It is not all or nothing.
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GWG
And no one, even aaronpk, who posts what food he eats from his watch, has everything they want on their site.
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GWG
aaronpk, I hope you took that as intended.
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colintedford
Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. I just wasn't sure if I was happy w/ considering it a mention b/c I don't have the whole picture
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colintedford
But I guess a) it's my site & I can do whatever, and b) I can just ask the person who posted (or another FB-heavy friend).
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colintedford
aaronpk eats food from his watch?!
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tantek
note to self: if a "collection" is just a type of post, then is adding to a collection just an *Update* of that post? and does that imply an "Append" or "Add" verb would be useful for collection posts, or maybe for adding to a "live blog" style post?
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colintedford
Related to tantek's note to self, is anyone publishing separate notes for updates?
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tantek
what is an edit?
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colintedford
Not neccessarily separate in the plumbing but like the gist of a correction
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Loqi
An edit (AKA diff, change) is a special type of reply that indicates a set of suggested changes to the post it is replying to. A collection of (presumably related) suggested edits in open source is often called a patch or pull request https://indiewebcamp.com/edit
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colintedford
Oh right, wiki :)
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colintedford
... or the photos added to a set? (just finishing thought for sake of completion)
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tantek
right. a photo collection is a just a collection post.
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tantek
what is a collection?
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Loqi
A collection is a type of post that explicitly lists and/or embeds multiple other posts chosen by the author https://indiewebcamp.com/collection
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ShaneHudson
In my personal usecase, a collection is a database of items. A post is any type of post. A collection is something like location or book. I can reference between the two. I used Mandy Brown's website for inspiration of that
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tantek
ShaneHudson: lol database. way to smash a fly with a sledgehammer
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ShaneHudson
Yeah database being metaphorical
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tantek
ShaneHudson: do you have links to examples on your website of such a post or collection?
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tantek
because we are reasoning from permalink examples on various sites, including FB
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tantek
which treat collections as their own posts
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ShaneHudson
I wanted a clear separation between my own content, and reusable content. If that makes sense
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tantek
no not really
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tantek
all content is somewhat re-usable somewhere
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ShaneHudson
I don't have anything front-facing yet but will show you using Mandy's
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tantek
which is neither
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tantek
that's more like a wiki page
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ShaneHudson
Then she writes a post, about the book like so: http://aworkinglibrary.com/writing/overkill/
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tantek
what is a wiki-page?
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Loqi
A wiki page is a type of web page that many in the IndieWebCamp community either want to or already host on their own personal site https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki-page
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aaronpk
i don't see how those are collections at all
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ShaneHudson
I don't know how she does it, but in mine I just have a relationship between my post and the book. An I can list the books separately from posts, and the posts that relate to the book
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tantek
me neither
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ShaneHudson
It was just the best term I could think of for it when I implemented
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tantek
those just look like wiki pages with embeds
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: the reading notes are their own posts which have been collected on the book post
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ShaneHudson
It is just the term I use. I have Posts, Interactions and Collections
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KartikPrabhu
ShaneHudson: I like Mandy's example! A good way to do reading notes and collect them in one place by book!
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aaronpk
under the "reading notes" section
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aaronpk
each has its own permalink
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tantek
I see the under the "reading notes" section as an embed of a collection, not a collection itself
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tantek
like comments
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tantek
in fact that's what they read like, comments
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tantek
so it's just a wiki page with comments
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ShaneHudson
True, but you can view them on there own
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KartikPrabhu
<shrug> looks like a collection to me
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ShaneHudson
for instance, a page of my books or a page of my locations.
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tantek
nah - it's not a collection because they're specifically a *secondary* thing
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tantek
on that page
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KartikPrabhu
if not that then I don't know what a collection is
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tantek
just like comments on a post
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: what is a collection?
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Loqi
A collection is a type of post that explicitly lists and/or embeds multiple other posts chosen by the author https://indiewebcamp.com/collection
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ShaneHudson
Fair enough, it isn't a concept.. just the name I called it. Naming conventions are the hardest thing in CS right? :P
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tantek
difference here is that the it's not explicit from the collection viewpoint
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tantek
but rather aggregated, the way you aggregate comments
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tantek
whereas a collection implies curation
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KartikPrabhu
errr those might be curated...
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tantek
ShaneHudson: when naming something check for existing uses first - that's not hard - just requires you to take an explicit step
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tantek
as many things in CS do
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ShaneHudson
I see. So if I manually made a Fantasy page, and embeded that genre, you would call it a collection? Fair enough
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KartikPrabhu
so I can't collect my own posts into a "collection" post
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KartikPrabhu
I have to "curate" something
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tantek
you can - however - explicitly curated = collection
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aaronpk
you can curate your own posts sure
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tantek
whereas automatically embeded = aggregation
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KartikPrabhu
strikes me as arbitrary ... <shrug>
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tantek
big difference
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tantek
curation = conscious authorship
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tantek
hence why a collection is a *post*
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KartikPrabhu
go is "aggregate" a post type too?
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tantek
post are consciously written by the author
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aaronpk
here's a collection post of 4 photos and 1 map. this could not have been automatically done. http://aaronparecki.com/collections/2014/08/14/1/
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ShaneHudson
Yeah I really don't care about name.. just saw you saw collection and thought I would let you know what I do :)
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: no aggregate is not a post type
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tantek
closer to navigation
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aaronpk
aggregatations are closer to feeds
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tantek
what is navigation?
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Loqi
Navigation refers to the UI, UX and markup allowing people to move around a website https://indiewebcamp.com/navigation
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tantek
what are archives
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Loqi
archive in the context of the indieweb refers to date-grouped (often monthly) sets of posts (AKA personal historical archives, a common form of navigation), but can sometimes mean archival copy, a copy of a web page made (often by someone other than the author) at a particular point in time https://indiewebcamp.com/archives
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KartikPrabhu
does not agree with that particularly because of Mandy's example. It is not a feed, it is not comments, it is not archive
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KartikPrabhu
anyway, post type debates have generally not enlightened me at all so <shrug>
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tantek
Mandy's example is basically comments
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aaronpk
here's a feed of posts, not all authored by me, which is automatically updated http://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieweb
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tantek
where her notes are basically just "webmentioning" her book "post"
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tantek
and then her book post is including them below
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tantek
nothing curated / collection about it
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ShaneHudson
Essentially that is what I do yes, just in implemention side I want it separate from my post
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tantek
comments are not a "collection"
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tantek
comments are separate from the post
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ShaneHudson
My comments are Interactions, my posts and Posts and my books are Collections. Simple. Sorry about the naming, maybe I could change later if anyone else adopts a similar system
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tantek
yes your notes on your books are interactions with those books.
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tantek
if you ever do create explicitly curated collection posts (like photo collections), you'll likely want to rename
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tantek
just a heads-up
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ShaneHudson
That would be a post
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tantek
right, a collection post
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colintedford
She's not really commenting on the content of the book post, I think; the book post is like an anchor for her "reading notes" posts about the book.
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ShaneHudson
For me personally it would be a Post with the post type of Album. Like I have Posts which are of post type Link
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tantek
she is *precisely* commenting on the content of the book!
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ShaneHudson
Because photo albums are my own content. My "collections" are not
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tantek
she quotes portions and says stuff
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colintedford
On the content of the book, not the content of her post summarizing the book.
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ShaneHudson
Yeah she is. She can also comment on multiple books at once and it will appear on all book pages. Internal webmentions of a sort
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tantek
the URL for the book is a representation for the book, as our websites are repsentations of ourselves
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tantek
colintedford: distinction not helpful
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tantek
ShaneHudson: precisely. just like you can /multi-reply !
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tantek
so yes - they look and act like comments
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ShaneHudson
Yeah. I think you are only disagreeing over naming, everything else really is very simple
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tantek
regardless of whether you want to call them something else
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tantek
I am disagreeing over a new name for the same thing
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tantek
which is one of the common mistakes of naming
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ShaneHudson
I just wanted separation between: My content (Post), Other people's content/comments (Interactions) and Things I reference ("Collections")
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ShaneHudson
Do you have an idea for a better name? It shouldn't be hard for me to modify. Though it doesn't matter, I'm not proposing it as a concept, just as thing I have implemented on my own site
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tantek
I think the misconception you have is that interactions are only other people's content/comments
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colintedford
I guess I'm not sure how helpful this special use of "collection" is for me personally.
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tantek
whereas they also *often* include your own follow-up comments
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tantek
so that's a mistake to assume comments = other people
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tantek
I think that's where the conceptual break happened
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ShaneHudson
Not on my site
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tantek
comments = any kind of notes about the thing, from you or others
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tantek
e.g. Twitter @-replies on your own posts
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tantek
ShaneHudson: do you have replies on your site?
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ShaneHudson
The way I've implemented is my own comments are posted as Post. The interaction is metadata of my own, but nothing more
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ShaneHudson
tantek: Yes
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tantek
do you have ever follow-up to others comments on your posts?
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tantek
s/have//
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: do you  ever follow-up to others comments on your posts?
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ShaneHudson
I don't, mostly due to some bugs. But I will be able to
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ShaneHudson
The follow-up would be a new Post
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ShaneHudson
With its own permalink etc.. Same as normal
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tantek
that's my point - those are all just comments / follow-ups / threads on the original
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tantek
and then if you follow ben_thatmustbeme's implementation you may even have threads
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tantek
(speaking of naming problems - looking up the name of that)
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ShaneHudson
Right, I plan to. Though have so little time at moment, and need to get some cash in
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tantek
ShaneHudson: cool re: "plan to" - perhaps drop a note on your "Itches" section on your User: page?
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ShaneHudson
It's not really an itch right now, just a nice to have
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tantek
nice to haves are also itches
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ShaneHudson
Heh fair enough
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tantek.com
edited /User:ShaneHudson.net (+20) "some subheads"
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ShaneHudson
Haha cheers
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tantek
hey colintedford - add an image for your self in https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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shanehudson.net
edited /User:ShaneHudson.net (+156) "/* Itches */"
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shanehudson.net
edited /User:ShaneHudson.net (+56) "/* Itches */"
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colintedford
tantek: Will do eventually, don't have one handy.
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tantek
colintedford: do you use Twitter?
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colintedford
No, I have an account but I don't really use it & don't have a pic there.
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ShaneHudson
I still need to work on mobile UI, I've been using twitter without POSSE far too much
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tantek
colintedford: makes sense.
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colintedford
Used to have a pic on my site but not since redesign. Been meaning to make a new one 'cause the old one doesn't work well as a square.
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tantek
colintedford: do you use any silos? FB? IG? Tumblr?
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ShaneHudson
I mean, it all works but the lack of offline-mode and the fact that I live in a city where most buildings are over 400 years old means I never have good signal
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tantek
ShaneHudson: I feel your pain. I've chosen to only post from my laptop and POSSE instead of using Twitter mobile client (and not owning my notes).
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ShaneHudson
tantek: Yeah I am still too addicted to Twitter, it is a habit haha
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colintedford
tantek: FB (has the old non-square pic, or maybe awkward crop thereof)
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tantek
aaronpk++ for giving a very nice micropub overview in the SocialWG telcon today
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Loqi
aaronpk has 621 karma
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ShaneHudson
I do make sure to post notes that I don't want to lose to Twitter. But most stuff I don't care too much about
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aaronpk
yay I hope it was useful
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tantek
ShaneHudson: make it a resolution for 2015 to only post notes from your own site.
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ShaneHudson
I may do that
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colintedford
Used to use Tumblr but haven't in a while.
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tantek
If you can stick to that, it will break your addiction.
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ShaneHudson
Has anyone got POSSE-as-reply working on Facebook?
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aaronpk
made me want to solidify the update/delete parts more
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tantek
I know this from personal experience - the quality of my notes changed drastically once I started *only* posting from my own site
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tantek
aaronpk - great!
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jonnybarnes
ShaneHudson: I also pretty much only POSSE stuff to twitter
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tantek
jonnybarnes: do you *only* POSSE to Twitter?
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ShaneHudson
I am so glad I post links to my site now though. That was a very good move
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ShaneHudson
Even if it isn't styled yet haha https://shanehudson.net/links
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tantek
yes! ownyourlinks!
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tantek
ShaneHudson: do you *only* post links first to your website (and optionally POSSE somewhere else?)
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jonnybarnes
tantek: so, original tweets are only ever POSSEd notes
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ShaneHudson
I used to have a bookmarks folder on one computer and a different one on another
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ShaneHudson
No POSSE for links
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jonnybarnes
occasionally Ill reply to someone's tweet natively in my twitter app
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ShaneHudson
I just post a note that links if I want to POSSE it. The links part of my website is just for links, not commenting/note about the link
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tantek
and note that you're posting *notes* exclusively to your own site, but that you still post replies on Twitter.
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jonnybarnes
sometimes ill bother to make a reply on my own site that gets copied across
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tantek
jonnybarnes: it's still excellent progress
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tantek
took me 3+ years to ownmyreplies
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tantek
from just owningmynotes
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tantek
ShaneHudson - you should add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/ownyourdata#IndieWeb_Examples as well, specifically per http://indiewebcamp.com/ownyourdata#Per_Post_Type and "[[bookmarks]]" as the post type that you own
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ShaneHudson
I need to start tagging my links, but I can never come up with reusable tag names haha
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ShaneHudson
If I add everything I want to do to my site to that page, I will have written another book! :P
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tantek
on the contrary - capturing such other thoughts in a place like that helps clear your head to write a book!
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ShaneHudson
The ISBN one is quite a big itch, do you know of any API that scans a barcode and returns a nice json of details?
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tantek
just keep braindumping. that Edit link is fast :)
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ShaneHudson
Haha okay, in a bit. Preparing a soup at moment :)
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tantek
ShaneHudson: perhaps start a http://indiewebcamp.com/User:ShaneHudson.net#LazyWeb section with such requests?
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tantek
checks his own user page
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ShaneHudson
Do you "POSSE" of sorts your itch page?
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tantek
yes that's pretty impressive
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ShaneHudson
It felt a little silly saying "I want to do this to my site" on a different site haha
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tantek
I would like to, yet doing so depends on me first implementing http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Indie_Wiki
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tantek
and yes it feels silly however I don't mind at least contributing it to a /commons like indiewebcamp as opposed to a silo like PBworks
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ShaneHudson
Yeah true
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marcthiele.com
edited /2015/Germany (+51) "/* Sponsors */"
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ShaneHudson
Is there plans for IWCUK'15 yet? If it is after May/June then I could probably help organise
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colintedford.com
edited /collection (+134) "/* Changes */ Changes might be reflected by update posts."
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reedstrm
That'll help w/ the second half - convert isb to useful metadata
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ShaneHudson
reedstrm: Ah thanks :) Yeah there are a few ways to do that bit. Hopefully someone has done the whole lot, I don't see myself having time to implement a barcode scanner! (It would be fun though)
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jonnybarnes
ShaneHudson: how come the object note type is crossed out on your itch page?
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snarfed.org
edited /own_your_data (+2284) "add myself"
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snarfed.org
edited /own_your_data (+61) "/* Snarfed */ add missing event link"
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ShaneHudson
jonnybarnes: Because it is implemented, I could just remove from list but for some reason wanted to cross off. No real reason
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reedstrm
ShaneHudson: WDYM barcode scanner? Physical piece of hardware? those I've seen show up as a keyboard equivalent, so text entry field in a web form. Heck even the scan app on my phone copies the code to the clipboard, so could paste into a form. Or are you wanting to scan from images?
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tantek
snarfed++ on /ownyourdata ! Impressive !!
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Loqi
snarfed has 58 karma
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reedstrm
suddenly remembers that he's got a cuecat somewhere in a box ...
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sparverius
cuecat raised $185 million
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jonnybarnes
ShaneHudson: I just see random numbers on https://shanehudson.net/notes
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tantek.com
edited /own_your_data (+0) "sort by start date"
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tantek
jonnybarnes: look like sequential post IDs to me ;)
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jonnybarnes
they look like times to me
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reedstrm
sparverius: and that was back when a $100 million meant something :-)
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JHSheridan
So I spent most of the evening researching indieweb stuff, and it seems like brid.gy is the way to go for me, but I want to make sure I fully understand how it works
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snarfed
listens
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JHSheridan
Brid.gy PULLS (Backfeeds?) info from social silos and sends them to my site via webmention
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tantek
welcome JHSheridan !
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JHSheridan
and it PUSHES by my site sending a webmention to Bridgy, theb bridgy uses the social APIs to send them to each silo
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JHSheridan
Thanks Tantek. Big fan of your work and have watched some of your talks online!
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snarfed
JHSheridan: you can also push (aka publish) interactively via the UI on your user page
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JHSheridan
right
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JHSheridan
but can also ping bridgy w/ a webmention too right?
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JHSheridan
like I mentioned above?
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JHSheridan
Is there a reason I shouldn't use brid.gy?
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snarfed
well, if you want to learn and code against each silo's API yourself
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JHSheridan
lol... no.
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JHSheridan
definitely no.
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snarfed
or if you're violently allergic to any third party service
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JHSheridan
Only slightly allergic, but it's open source, so that mitigates most of my fears
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snarfed
the nice thing is, it's not a big decision you have to make up front
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JHSheridan
And talk about support! Better than any commercial product!
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snarfed
er lol
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JHSheridan
Just talk to the maintainer directly
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snarfed
no promises!
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JHSheridan
haha... no doubt.
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JHSheridan
ok... well there's todo #1 for me: Get JHSheridan.com sending/accepting webmentions
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JHSheridan
amazing... I'll probabaly use Ronkyuu or Webmention-tools
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JHSheridan
for the python
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tantek
delayed reply: jonnybarnes yes I agree they look like 24hr HHMM times
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jonnybarnes
tantek: what I was mainly getting at (I want a less angry sounding word but cant think of one) was surely the url /notes should let me read the notes, not give me a load of links?
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Loqi
gives jonnybarnes a less angry sounding word but cant think of one
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jonnybarnes
which is Loqi?
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finchd
what is Loqi?
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Loqi
Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel and other channels https://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi
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tantek
Loqi, you really should respond in the first person when someone asks what is Loqi.
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Loqi
Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel and other channels https://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi
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KartikPrabhu
JHSheridan: I would recommend ronkyuu. it gets more attention than webemention tools
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tantek
jonnybarnes: indeed there are better ways to display a notes archive
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JHSheridan
Great. Thanks KartikPrabhu!
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tantek
but something is better than nothing
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jonnybarnes
true dat tantek
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tantek
I don't even have a page of just my notes
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KartikPrabhu
JHSheridan: might I also suggest https://github.com/kartikprabhu/connection which is what I use. It binds together ronkyuu, mf2py and mf2util for webmention stuff
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jonnybarnes
“Stream of Consciousness”
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JHSheridan
awesome
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ShaneHudson
My notes archive is worse than my links haha https://shanehudson.net/notes
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bret
an interesting alternative to email https://github.com/maxogden/messages
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KartikPrabhu
so... you should know git to read email... hmmmm not a good UI
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: fortunately you don't need to know git to file a GH issue. still, point taken, it's definitely silly
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: i was thinking particularly about the PGP encrypted issues
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snarfed
oh god
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snarfed
refuses
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colintedford
"maxogden changed the title from Gnihihi to an encrypted message" What? Gnihihi's a way cooler title. Gnee-hee-hee!
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tantek
is max talking about deploying that to his own site? or are these just another instance of silo private messages?
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bret
silo PM
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tantek
bret, well if you think it is "interesting" - feel free to add it as a "Silo example" in a new such named section here http://indiewebcamp.com/messaging
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bret
grrr keep getting logged out of the wiki
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thedod
I just forked WebmentionDressing at https://zzzen.com/420/ so that if you webmention and the TOD minutes are ~20, you get \o/ in the timestamp :)
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thedod
17-23 to be exact
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bret.io
edited /messaging (+196) "/* Technologies */ Added github issues"
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tantek
I'm trying to figure out a solution to an auto-linking/embedding problem of sorts and am looking for suggestions
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@kevinmarks
in #indiewebcamp @aaronpk was explaining that Kirby was short for Kerberos. Colin Tedford illustrated my confusion: http://colintedford.com/2014/12/08.2120-kirby-kerberos/
(twitter.com/_/status/542451956929662976)
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tantek
because I'm still posting photos on Instagram, I sometimes link to them (and their .jpg) directly from my notes when I want to post about them
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bret.io
edited /messaging (+194) "/* Technologies */"
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aaronpk
haha I use the chrome web inspector for that...
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aaronpk
so... not "good"
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tantek
well, right, for "crappy" there's grep <meta property="og:image" content="
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aaronpk
oh good call, that's easier
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thedod
tantek, og:image etc. (i.e. an opengraph lib) could help in this case
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thedod
(and probably others)
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tantek
if we're talking browser UI, it's much easier. Firefox, control-click on the image, "View Background Image" :)
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tantek
meh - not going to wade through a search
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thedod
what lang?
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tantek
thedod - CASSIS :P
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tantek
aaronpk - the other alternative I am exploring is implementing more of my Markdown replacement syntax
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tantek
into my auto-linker/embedder
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tantek
so I can say here is a link and here is the image to put inside
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tantek
which can then be POSSEd as just here is a link
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tantek
also - I don't want to have to do an HTTP get on the link just to figure out what image to use to preview it
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tantek
and then munge for og: etc.
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tantek
currently my /autolink and /autoembed functions are purely algorithmic - just string manipulation - zero network access. = performant and fast.
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tantek
no way I'm going to saddle those with any network accesses
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thedod
You could cheat and do it client side in JS, but something tells me you wouldn't :)
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KartikPrabhu
errr... me nods with tantek not at JS
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@kevinmarks
@mala your blog is right there Danny. The #indieweb is chanting "one of us"
(twitter.com/_/status/542455442442448896)
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@kevinmarks
@mala I just know you could write your own #indieweb compliant posting interface to procrastinate from actually blogging
(twitter.com/_/status/542458040088141828)
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Loqi
woot
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GWG
I have an issue I need to figure out
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tantek
annoying. can't edit wiki pages on PBWorks without JS :(
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tantek
what is pbworks?
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Loqi
PBWorks is a wiki content-hosting silo that was originally called "PBWiki" https://indiewebcamp.com/PBWorks
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tantek.com
edited /PBWorks (+160) "Cannot edit without JS"
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