#indieweb

2015-01-03

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tantek
I'm already considering iterations on my clustered likes design, having "lived with it" for only a few days.
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Loqi
tantek: aaronpk left you a message 5 hours, 7 minutes ago: re /quotation : That's what I use bookmarks for. e.g. http://aaron.pk/b4Zx2
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tantek
aaronpk - indeed. It's very tempting to re-use/repurpose already implemented post types for additional post types, and they sorta can work that way too.
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tantek
however there are the dual problems of capturing author intent - i.e. what's the *focus* of the author's post, and explicitly allowing for / hinting at / encouraging post kind specific display
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tantek
in those ways I think a /quotation post type deserves explicitly different treatment than a /bookmark
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tantek
that is - the *quote* being the focus, the primary content the author wishes to convey, and the URL just being a citation / info-about the quote.
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tantek
rather than the *bookmark* or URL being the focus, and a description / quote is meant purely as sort of an optional mini-preview / snippet for the reader's convenience.
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tantek
the intent behind those two are very different, and should at least *allow for* different presentation (whether or not and how they are presented differently is a different matter, so to speak)
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tantek
Tumblr's quotation post type is a good example of how the focus on the quote can be better conveyed in a design.
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tantek
!tell aaronpk re: quotation vs. bookmark http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-03#t1420277404307
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
back to clustered like presentation iterations - specifically the thorn that's sticking is the way time is conveyed
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tantek
I realized that a parenthetical expression of time after a piece of media/link already has some shared meaning, that it's a duration indicator/hint about the media/link being shared (expectedly audio/video)
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tantek
which is obviously not what my usage is intending, thus I need to alter the presentation to not misconvey that somewhat established convention
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tantek
anyway that's going to take some rethinking
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neuro`
Good morning.
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tantek
good morning neuro`!
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tantek
the other clustered like case I'm looking into improving is when I like/favorite a lot of things from the same person / source
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tantek
part of my reading pattern is reading individual people's profiles / sites serially post by post, and often liking a bunch of them in a row
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tantek
(I find reading people like that much more satisfying / calm than any kind of random aggregate "news feed" of updates from all the random sources)
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neuro`
tantek: can you have some /people/someone pages gathering those individuals posts?
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neuro`
It would mean being able to extract the origin of the posts you liked, but this must be in the various APIs metadata
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tantek
neuro`: perhaps. For now I'm looking at the simpler question of can clusters of likes in a home page stream be even further tightened up
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tantek
no APIs nor metadata needed. origin of posts - what we call *author* of posts (h-entry) is right there in the visible markup
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neuro`
Oh, indeed, what was I thinking about?
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tantek
or even more minimally, leave out explicit authorship in such posts - just use a permalink/URL and presume that anyone wanting detailed info about a post you like, can simply retrieve that post and follow the /authorship algorithm on it
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@jailvestre
@nhoizey @oncletom @loicmathaud @davidbgk @DavidBruant l'@indiewebcamp est à fond sur ce genre de truc ! (twtr.io/uhPw2kQ1CY)
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@nhoizey
@jailvestre oui, bien entendu, avec @adactio notamment. +@oncletom @loicmathaud @davidbgk @DavidBruant @indiewebcamp (twtr.io/uhRmLYe8NR)
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@furilo
Este año, más POSSE https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twtr.io/uhXyqArtxN)
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@loicmathaud
@oncletom @davidbgk @DavidBruant ça reste encore assez confidentiel dans l'univers #indieweb mais ne demande qu'à être plus largement usité (twtr.io/uhZR4jq1jY)
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voxpelli
!tell KevinMarks I pushed a quick fix now for the duplicated text in the mentions on your site – it displays a sensible default now rather than the imported like/repost text
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@hugoroyd
Hello to @taziden joining the #indieWeb @withKnown (twtr.io/uhfWPwYmMt)
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@Wordius
@voxpelli Trouble getting Webmentions to work on http://t.co/kkNRtKY4dl. Link in head, script in post but no joy despite likes on Twitter (twtr.io/uhsQYgiEcs)
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@Wordius
@voxpelli Ignore previous messages. Had URL issues; fixed and Webmentions are working! Thank you (twtr.io/uhw1Akwis_)
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@Wordius
Finally, got #webmentions working on my site http://wordius.com/productivity-tool-of-the-year-freeagent/ (twtr.io/uhxgkTyVYr)
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aaronpk
tantek: ah good point about the focus of the URL vs quote
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 7 hours, 53 minutes ago: re: quotation vs. bookmark http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-03#t1420277404307
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aaronpk
I wonder how many of my bookmarks I intended as quotations
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aaronpk
oh I just realized I've totally done quotation posts before, just as a regular note
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tantek
example URL?
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aaronpk
looking
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aaronpk
here is one without a URL because it was IRL http://aaron.pk/n4Y62
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aaronpk
here we go: http://aaron.pk/n4Xp1
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aaronpk
here's another http://aaron.pk/n4WN2
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aaronparecki.com
edited /quotation (+172) "add examples of quotation notes" (view diff)
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aaronpk
here is a quotation with a photo! http://aaron.pk/n4W52
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tantek
funny about the one comment on http://aaron.pk/n4WN2 now 404ing
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tantek
that quotation with a photo to me seems more like the primary content / intent is to show the *photo* and then the quotation is intended secondarily as the caption of the photo.
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tantek
that is the quotation is about the photo, rather than the photo being about the quotation
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aaronpk
oh funny, I thought that was a tweet reply
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tantek
do you have the entire original? did you do the ellipsing or was it in the original?
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aaronpk
let me check
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tantek
realizes that's what … vs. […] is for
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tantek
… inside a quotation is supposed to indicate that the ellipsis was in the original quotation, whereas […], like any [words inserted] insidde a quotation implies insertion (deletion) by the quoter.
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aaronpk
dug up the html cached from that page
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tantek
waits for a "View Cache" button on comments on aaronpk's posts ;)
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aaronpk
looks like most of the page included the ellipsis
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aaronpk
oh that'd be neat. not sure how i'd handle CSS though
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aaronpk
the version in the fb og tag was "fwd @timberners_lee RT @aaronpk "Because already got webmentions on my site, Brid.gy worked straight out the gate... j.mp/U5UH3O"
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aaronpk
and in the entry-content element there was "fwd <a href="@timberners_lee</a>" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/timberners_lee">@timberners_lee</a> RT <a href="@aaronpk</a>" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/aaronpk">@aaronpk</a> &#8220;Because already got webmentions on my site, Brid.gy worked straight out the gate&#8230; <a href="http://j.mp/U5UH3O">j.mp/U5UH3O</a>"
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tantek
and the jmp just goes to your permalink
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aaronpk
oh I see what happened
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aaronpk
the microformats parser returned both a "name" and "content"
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aaronpk
so comments-presentation says to use the name
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tantek
I think summary before name but yeah
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aaronpk
it's just that in this case the name isn't really a name, it's just abbreviated content
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aaronpk
(there's no summary property)
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tantek
right, no summary means you have to pick between name to keep the comment short for presentation or content for more but which risks making the comment much bigger (off topic?) than your post.
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tantek
hence name before content without knowing anything more about either's specific value
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@Wordius
@xtof_fr Disturbing thing is, I had your Webmention long before your post was live! (twtr.io/ui7qJ49Jw0)
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aaronpk
so I guess my code is fine?
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tantek
yes
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tantek
if you wanted to enhance it further, you could do the FB "More…" thing
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tantek
that is:
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tantek
when displaying a name or summary for a comment, and the comment has content, AND the name/summary being used is a strict whitespace normalized text abbreviation for the content, show a "More…" link which dynamically shows the entire content in place instead of the name/summary
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tantek
s/abbreviation/prefix abbreviation
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: when displaying a name or summary for a comment, and the comment has content, AND the name/summary being used is a strict whitespace normalized text prefix abbreviation for the content, show a "More…" link which dynamically shows the entire content in place instead of the name/summary
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aaronpk
cool
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tantek
I suppose I should write that up somewhere
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aaronpk
finding out if the name is an abbreviation of the content is hard, especially when the name might include an ellipsis
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tantek
no that's *how* you find out!
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tantek
the algorithm is, text only, collapse all sequences of any whitespace to single whitespace characters
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tantek
do that to both name/summary and content and then you can do a simple string prefix compare
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tantek
then if you're worried about ellipsis, think of it as a *choice* for you the publisher
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tantek
that is, you could implement a "More…" button *ONLY* when the name/summary ends with an ellipsis
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tantek
(in addition to the previous prefix requirement)
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tantek
since the comment author's use of ellipsis in the name/summary indicates that they are explicitly communicating in the name/summary that there IS more content
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tantek
thus you as the comment displayer could choose to listen to that explicit communication, and show a "more…" link accordingly.
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@xtof_fr
@Wordius Kudos for implementing #webmentions ! Cannot help Thinking about #ownmynotes' commitment : How to own replies w/ "in-reply-to" (twtr.io/ui8XTCj1vC)
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tantek
it's like a subtle use of an ellipsis for a show "more…" link "API" as it were.
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aaronpk
I like it. I wonder if I can add that to my php-comments library somehow
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aaronpk
in other news, Google is shutting down Open ID 2.0 support
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aaronpk
https://developers.google.com/accounts/docs/OpenID#shutdown-timetable
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aaronpk
April 20, 2015 will be completely shut down
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aaronpk
it's being replaced by Google+ which is OAuth 2.0 with OpenID Connect
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tantek
with special sauce
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aaronpk
any oauth 2.0 implementation requires special sauce ;)
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tantek
and that's the problem with OpenID Connect in one sentence
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tantek
all that should be added to /OpenID
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tantek
as cumbersome as it was, OpenID 1.0 didn't require special sauce to consume or produce.
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aaronpk
I've been working on a blog post about OAuth 2.0 implementations. It's a checklist that points out all the things where OAuth 2.0 implementations can differ
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tantek
*do* differ - presumably you have examples
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aaronpk
this is more pointing out all the holes in the spec
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aaronpk
also is kind of a guide for people building oauth servers
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tantek
that makes sense, even such a "all the holes" guide on its own is useful
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tantek
then you can separately post real world examples of the holes in practice
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aaronpk
yeah. I'm toying with the idea of making this a live form, so people can fill it out based on their server implementation. then I could collect results that way
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aaronpk
i'm not sure it would actually be super useful and is going to add a ton of work to the post, so haven't decided yet
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tantek
not sure people could be trusted to answer accurately (not just because of malintent)
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tantek
good reasons to cut it
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tantek
or do it as a follow-up
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aaronpk
draft post, requires login: https://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/03/1/so-you-implemented-an-oauth2-api
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tantek
is still editing /quotation with guidance
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tantek.com
edited /quotation (+2337) "why section, primary / portion / emphasis exception, and when to instead use a repost, bookmark, or photo" (view diff)
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@hugoroyd
@taziden @benwerd to have interactions appear in Known, diaspora has to support webmentions… (twtr.io/uiCUAC3xWf)
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tantek
aaronpk, for your review, thoughts on why to post a quotation post, and why post a different kind of post instead: https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Why
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aaronpk
this is good
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aaronpk
question: a quotation with commentary...
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aaronpk
is that still a quotation post?
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tantek
I was looking at your example of http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/06/01/2/indieweb to try to figure that out
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tantek
and I think the primary/secondary reasoning still applies
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aaronpk
that example seems more like clarifying the context rather than adding commentary
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aaronpk
so I agree that the reasoning for using a quotation post applies
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tantek
if your post is primarily about the quotation, and only secondarily about any summary / comment / description, then it should still be a quotation
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aaronpk
here is a quotation with commentary https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/11/14/1/facepalm
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tantek
if however, your comment *is* your primary contribution, then are you are writing a reply, and the quotation is actually acting as just a reply-context. Post a reply instead, in-reply-to a fragmention link to the start of the quoted content.
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tantek
aaronpk - hah - that's a hashtag - as commentary
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aaronpk
yeah lol
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tantek
more often seen as "#FAIL"
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aaronpk
i'm looking for the actual example i was thinking of
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tantek
that seems more like a reply
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tantek
it's kind of alike a /this
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tantek
s/alike/like
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aaronpk
not really, I wouldn't just post #facepalm
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: it's kind of like a /this
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aaronpk
I had the explicit intent of sharing the text of the thing i'm replying to
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tantek
yes you would, it's a tag reply to a fragmention ;)
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aaronpk
i've seen this behavior a lot on twitter too. i think it's different than just a reply
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aaronpk
because my intent is not actually to reply to the original post
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tantek
right
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tantek
here's how you can tell. if you dropped the "#facepalm", your post would still make sense!
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tantek
but not vice versa
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tantek
thus the quotation is primary, and the "commentary" is secondary
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tantek
this is a good minimal example
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aaronpk
here it is: https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/05/19/3/negroni
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tantek
yeah that's definitely a comment on a fragmention
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tantek
the quote without the comment would not convey your intent
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tantek
and the quote is primarily acting as a reply-context
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tantek
rather, that's a marginalia post, pure and simple
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Loqi
[mention] Christophe Ducamp commented '@Wordius : still not tested @withknown on my own instance and I'd be happy to make an opinion. Next month, I'll try to get in touch in fre...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/withknown#How_to (http://xtof.withknown.com/2015/wordius-still-not-tested-withknown-on-my-own-instance-and)
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Loqi
[mention] Christophe Ducamp commented '@Wordius : still not tested @withknown on my own instance and I'd be happy to make an opinion. Next month, I'll try to get in touch in fre...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (http://xtof.withknown.com/2015/wordius-still-not-tested-withknown-on-my-own-instance-and)
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aaronpk
oh man I just realized I have a relatively short path to making an indieweb reader inside p3k
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aaronpk
i've been doing all this work on rendering other peoples' posts within p3k for my reposts and favorites
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aaronpk
http://aaronparecki.com/notes/repost and http://aaronparecki.com/likes
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aaronpk
and it's all based on rendering the post given an h-entry
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aaronpk
all that code is in p3k-core, and could be easily reused for a reader app
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aaronpk
...just thinking out loud...
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tantek
yes!
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tantek
reply-contexts and reposts as the path to creating the building blocks for your own indie reader!
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tantek
and likes as a motivator too - since favoriting/liking is more and more the most frequent interaction people do when "reading"
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aaronpk
definitely. it is definitely favoriting/liking that is pushing me to have my own reader now
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tantek
I've felt the same itch
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aaronpk
because I want a reader with micropub support so that the likes can be published seamlessly
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Loqi
gives aaronpk a reader with micropub support so that the likes can be published seamlessly
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tantek
because I go to read, and then I'm like, oops I don't want to like/fave here, I need to go to my site to do that
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aaronpk
my browser button for liking is good, but still requires the extra effort of visiting the post's permalink first
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tantek
which means I need to / should read from my site
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tantek
aaronpk - yeah - greasemonkey override of the in-content UI would be better
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tantek
like what barnaby had built for replies
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aaronpk
yeah, I think I'm going to skip that and jump to the reader instead though
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aaronpk
I had it working for twitter a while back too
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tantek
aaronpk - then the race is on for fully integrated indieweb reader funcationality, between you and Known.
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aaronpk
i'm going to build it as a p3k "app" like Quill and Teacup
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tantek
that anyone can use to read?
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aaronpk
yep
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tantek
like Shrewdness you mean?
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tantek.com
edited /quotation (+2569) "subheads for why, secondary brief commentary, when to use a reply instead, with examples, note connection to marginalia" (view diff)
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tantek
aaronpk - updated with answers from your above questions about commentary with quotes etc. see in particular: https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Secondary_brief_commentary and https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#reply
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aaronpk
interesting
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tantek
What I find particularly interesting is that I needed the conceptual building blocks of "reply-context" "fragment" and "marginalia" to actually answer the seemingly "simpler" question about quotation vs. reply.
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tantek
s/fragment/fragmention
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: What I find particularly interesting is that I needed the conceptual building blocks of "reply-context" "fragmention" and "marginalia" to actually answer the seemingly "simpler" question about quotation vs. reply.
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aaronpk
that makes sense
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tantek
answering that question was MUCH harder a year ago
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tantek
because we didn't even know what we didn't know (that "fragmention" and "marginalia" would be essential illuminating building blocks)
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tantek
aaronpk - plus it helps that you've posted so many examples anyway that inspired the analysis!
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aaronpk
glad I could help :)
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aaronpk
also it was the act of scanning through past notes on my site looking for these examples that made me realize I already have a lot of the reader work done
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tantek
I wasn't sure from this post whether the quotation or bookmark was more primary: http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2012/04/04/1/
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aaronpk
in that case the quotation is there so that I remember why I bookmarked it
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tantek
however, upon reading the the linked article, I *think* the bookmark is more primary, and the quotation is just a secondary "reminder" or "summary" of what kind of thing is in the bookmark, or *why* you bookmarked it.
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tantek
boom
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aaronpk
ha jinx
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tantek
hah - in my IRC client I sent my message before receiving yours
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tantek
249 microseconds between our statements - if that's the resolution of the permalinks in the log. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-03#t1420315819917
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aaronpk
haha! milliseconds I think
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tantek
and only 162ms between the next two!
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tantek
that's the kind of interaction that's unlikely to ever happen on Twitter because of so much more lag in all their infrastructure / UI
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tantek
and frankly, also an interesting performance challenge should we ever (when we) get to indieweb irc posting.
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aaronpk
heh that'll be fun
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tantek
aaronpk - if you marked up the reference to to Amber's name in the quotation as a person-tag, THEN this would be a quotation rather than a bookmark: http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2012/04/04/1/
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aaronpk
how so?
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tantek
since even adding a person-tag to a quotation is a form of emphasis per: https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Emphasis_exception
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aaronpk
ahh
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tantek
because the person-tag would indicate an explicit intent above and beyond bookmarking
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tantek
that you wanted to communicate *explicitly* hey - Amber is in this quote
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aaronpk
right, and possibly also with the intent of drawing it to her attention
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tantek
precisely
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aaronpk
since it would send a webmention to her home page
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tantek
and all that difference in intent would make it a quotation more than a bookmark
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kylewm
is anybody posseing instagram likes yet? trying to figure out what to put for the u-syndication url
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aaronpk
I am, but I'm not setting syndication URLs of my likes
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kylewm
I guess I could see what Bridgy does when backfeeding likes
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tantek
kylewm: Instagram does not have permalinks for likes does their is nothing to put for a u-syndication URL
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tantek
s/does their/therefore there/
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: kylewm: Instagram does not have permalinks for likes therefore there is nothing to put for a u-syndication URL
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tantek
not sure how I mistyped that
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aaronpk
this should be fun :) https://github.com/aaronpk/Monocle
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tantek
aaronpk, why not CC0 instead of Apache?
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aaronpk
I use apache for most of my source code
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kylewm
interesting, Bridgy just makes something up. instagram.com/p/shortcode/#liked-by-userid
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tantek
so for your own consistency then
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aaronpk
yeah. i haven't considered CC0 for code before.
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tantek
aaronpk - every since I started working interchangeably on documentation, specification, software, CC0 made a lot more sense for all 3
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aaronpk
I would consider CC0 for functions or small libraries, but I don't think it really makes sense for projects.
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tantek
for ease of sharing / moving snippets backforth
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kylewm
didn't willnorris have a google-legal-department issue trying to use some bit of CASSIS because of CC0?
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aaronpk
that sounds familiar
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tantek
no - he was *asking* for CC0
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aaronpk
i suppose accepting contributions is easier for CC0 source code since you're asking very clearly for the contributor to give up their copyrights rather than assigning them or licensing them
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tantek
because I started CASSIS as CC-BY-SA deliberately to slow down / constrain some of its propagation until I felt like there (enough) test cases, review of the code etc.
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tantek
aaronpk, and yes, for contributions, CC0 is a no brainer
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tantek
because it doesn't make them *give* anything to *you* in particular
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tantek
that's the problem with all the copyright assignment/license crap
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aaronpk
interesting, hadn't really considered it before
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tantek
it limits your opportunity to contribute to multiple places that each ask for that
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tantek
yeah I think it's kind of an obvious flaw
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tantek
so at a minimum, ask for all contributions to be done CC0
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tantek
which then gives you the maximum option of CC0 in the future
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tantek
if not immediately if you prefer
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kylewm
tantek, you're right; it NewBase60 stuff, it was CC-BY-SA and you changed it to CC0
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tantek
yeah - again, for such fundamental code I wanted to make sure there were no weird buggy edge cases and such
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tantek
heck I just fixed a newcal CASSIS bug last week while building like posts!
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tantek
(I should say, while drastically simplifying my storage format and code)
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tantek
but the NewBase60 stuff is pretty solid
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tantek
what CC-BY-SA gives you above CC0 for such "uncertain" code is that you're communicating an expectation that derivative works MUST also be openly published, which means if you find a bug in your original, you have *a chance* of finding (or other finding) downstream copies and fixing
#
tantek
whereas with CC0, you basically absolve yourself of any such responsibilities
#
tantek
another reason is if you're doing a project essentially by yourself and you have some fear someone may try to hijack it e.g. incorporate it in its entirety into some larger project and then claim its theirs, take it over, etc.
#
tantek
using CC-BY-SA minimizes that to only other larger projects that use CC-BY-SA - which are not typically not the type of people/communities that hijack things
#
tantek
btw by take it over - I also mean put a more restrictive license on it that causes you trouble with working on your own code - since fixes may become "obvious" and they may make fixes before you do.
#
tantek
anyway that's borderline off topic - or perhaps it's an FAQ for indieweb publishing of code
#
tantek
kylewm - re: u-syndication links for POSSEs of likes - I will point out that FB *does* have permalinks for likes
#
tantek
thus it *does* make sense to link from an indie like post of a FB object, to the FB permalink of the POSSE like of that object.
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tantek
hmm I think I just made myself more work - since I don't think Bridgy Publish returns the FB permalink of the POSSE like of a FB object, does it?
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kylewm
it should if it doesn't
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kylewm
i mean, the code is written such that it tries to return the permalink of your syndicated post
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tantek
kylewm: well it didn't for likes
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tantek
it returns the URL of the thing you liked
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kylewm
tantek, that is what i'm seeing too
#
tantek
reviews his u-syndication parsing/generation code flow
#
GWG
Afternoon, indiewebcamp
#
GWG
kylewm: what happened to your site?
#
aaronpk
this, I assume: https://kylewm.com/2015/01/screwing-around-with-themes-for-redwind-this-one
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GWG
Oh
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kylewm
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 644 karma
#
aaronpk
that's hilarious
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snarfed
kylewm: re instagram likes, i've defaulted to just the silo post url before
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snarfed
if i'm feeling ambitious, i make up a fragment with the liker's username or id
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snarfed
is this for redwind? or https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/326 ?
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kylewm
snarfed: cool. also is there an API limitation that prevents you from getting the permalink for a FB like post?
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tantek
kylewm - really appreciating the minimal kylewm.com
#
tantek
so calm
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kylewm
:D
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snarfed
kylewm: sorry, i don't follow. context?
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GWG
kylewm: I don't like it. But mostly because it doesn't fill my screen
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kylewm
snarfed, so I am looking at https://www.brid.gy/facebook/tantek.celik .. the Published likes at the bottom
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kylewm
snarfed, like you said, it just defaults to the URL of the thing being liked
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xtof
bonsoir et belle année à tous les indiewebcampeurs
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kylewm
snarfed, and I'm wondering if it's possible to get the permalink for the actual like ... a la https://www.facebook.com/kyle.mahan/posts/10101133361177039:4
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tantek
starts manually adding u-syndication links for his FB likes, sigh.
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kylewm
is there any way to find them in the UI other than going to /allactivity, tantek?
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snarfed
kylewm: hmm, i can't see that url
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kylewm
ohhh interesting
#
aaronpk
"This content is currently unavailable"
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snarfed
also those permalinks redirect to the post url
#
tantek
kylewm: not for me. however I assume that Bridgy sees the URL permalink of a like as some sort of return value to its FB API call to like something
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snarfed
actually, nm, they don't redirect but they do just show it
#
kylewm
tantek: can you share one of the like permalinks you are looking at?
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snarfed
kylewm: ok, i understand now. i'd love to use those urls! i'm not actually sure we get them, but i'd happily use them if possible
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tantek
pretty sure I even documented it on /like
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tantek
a while ago
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snarfed
here's an example public one: https://www.facebook.com/snarfed.org/posts/10101426802642863:0
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tantek
yes I did: http://indiewebcamp.com/like#FB_like_permalink
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kylewm
snarfed: cool, mostly I wondered if you were already tracking it as an issue; so many bridgy things are already
#
snarfed
kylewm: no issue for it yet afaik. here's a loosely related one though: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/265
#
KartikPrabhu
Loqi playback?
#
Loqi
who, me?
#
KartikPrabhu
was going to point out connection between quotation, bookmark, fragmention and marginalia but tantek already did that
#
KartikPrabhu
might be of interest to WP people: http://css-tricks.com/roll-simple-wordpress-podcast-plugin/
#
GWG
Anyone have any advice on presentation of category/tags?
#
GWG
I'm working on that again
#
GWG
The issue being that Indieweb conventions see no difference between the two and WordPress does. Trying to decide how to address in a presentation manner
#
aaronpk
kylewm: what happened to your mf2? your body tag has a class of bh-entry
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Snarfed.org * uploaded "[[File:fb like post.png]]"
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aaronpk
oh you just fixed it
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kylewm
aaronpk, ah I don't have an h-card
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kylewm
will need to fix that
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aaronpk
heh I totally forgot to handle the case where there's no image for the like
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aaronpk
so it's just not showing up
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snarfed.org
edited /like (+187) "/* FB like permalink */ screenshot" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
GWG: do you use category and tags differently?
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KartikPrabhu
why not just use one.
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tantek
GWG, simple answer, WP categories are an old obsolete methodology and architecture. ignore them completely. pretend they don't exist. Use only tags.
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KartikPrabhu
that ^
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tantek
what is that?
#
Loqi
That! (or "that ^^^") is a rarely seen reply emphasizing agreement with a This post https://indiewebcamp.com/that
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KartikPrabhu
weird that mf2 still calls them categories though
#
KartikPrabhu
ha lol
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aaronpk
i have always been irritated at that
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tantek.com
edited /that (+143) "expand definition per kartikprabhu illustrative usage and real world example" (view diff)
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aaronpk
hahaha
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KartikPrabhu
lol
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tantek.com
edited /that (+0) "margin" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
IRC chat as post-type definition source!
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GWG
I just set it to mix the two together
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tantek
All I know is that we're documenting more real world post types with actual citations of examples in the wild than the ActivityStreams crowd ever did :P
#
tantek
I think proposing "This" and "That" posts as additions to W3C Activity Streams would be good April 1 submission.
#
Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki liked a post http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-03/line/1420319959242 (https://aaronparecki.com/likes/2015/01/03/2/)
#
Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki liked a post http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-03/line/1420319959242 (https://aaronparecki.com/likes/2015/01/03/2/)
#
tantek.com
edited /this (+0) "margin" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
checks to see if the the newyear has broken his site
#
KartikPrabhu
hmmm nope looks good :P
#
GWG
How does this look for a site that has pretty much no styling?
#
GWG
https://tiny.n9n.us/
#
Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki liked a post http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-03/line/1420320130034 (https://aaronparecki.com/likes/2015/01/03/3/)
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Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki liked a post http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-03/line/1420320130034 (https://aaronparecki.com/likes/2015/01/03/3/)
#
aaronpk
not really sure why my site is sending two WMs in a row...
#
aaronpk
I do enjoy that I can "like" lines from the IRC log
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tantek
does the IRC log have <indie-action> tags for that?
#
aaronpk
no I just used my browser button
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voxpelli
I was just thinking about the same
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tantek
what if each line had an empty heart icon
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tantek
and clicking it just did an <indie-action> like
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tantek
of course showing it filled in would be more work ;)
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aaronpk
does anyone have working <indie-action> support right now?
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tantek
especially when loading older logs
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snarfed
tantek: such a simple description, such a big implementation :P
#
tantek
voxpelli does both sides right?
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tantek
snarfed: simple designs are often big implementations ;)
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voxpelli
tantek: since I have a Jekyll blog I unfortunately only have the buttons right now, not the publishing
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voxpelli
and I don't have a like button active yet, but would love to try it out with some one
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tantek
you mean the web+action: URL handling? registerprotocolhandler and all that?
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voxpelli
yes
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aaronpk
I can't remember where I left off with that on my site
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aaronpk
I got something working during indiewebcamp boston, enough to make a little video
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voxpelli
turns out kylewm actually have support for accepting likes through that
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tantek
accepting or posting?
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voxpelli
tantek: https://kylewm.com/new/like?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvoxpelli.com%2F2014%2F10%2Findie-config-overview%2F
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tantek
posting then
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aaronpk
kylewm: what is "publish quietly"?
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kylewm
aaronpk: doesn't send webmentions
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aaronpk
neat
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kylewm
I think I added that when I wrote a post with lots of links to indiewebcamp.com and didn't want to blow up the channel :P
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tantek
nice
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kylewm
thanks :)
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aaronpk
yea this post i'm working on is definitely gonna blow up the channel
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voxpelli
there's now WebAction / IndieConfig links for Likes and Tips on my blog in addition to the reply http://voxpelli.com/2014/10/indie-config-overview/
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voxpelli
works well with kylewm's "like" endpoint, although perhaps one would like a bit quicker publish flow there – like a 1-click confirm rather than a form?
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tantek
yes that makes sense
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kylewm
yeah 1-click without sending me to another page would be the ideal, imho
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kylewm
with a confirmation like how instagram turns the empty heart to a filled heart
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tantek
that confirmation should come via your post sending the like webmention to the post you're looking at right?
#
tantek
and then that post updating its comments/interactions in real time?
#
tantek
what is real time comments?
#
Loqi
real-time comments are the display of comments on a view of a post (typically on its permalink) as they are received by the post (presumably via webmention), without needing any explicit user reloading, refreshing, or any other tapping/clicking etc https://indiewebcamp.com/real-time_comments
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kylewm
that would be awesome
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tantek
that's the latency to reduce to <200ms
#
tantek
that entire flow
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kylewm
indie-actions doesn't give the site a way to check "are you one of the people who liked this post?"
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kylewm
but would that be possible?
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tantek
click empty heart, send web+action URL handler, your server posts like to your own site, sends webmention to the post you're looking it, post you're looking at updates its appearance to show the heart is now full
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tantek
ah, in that case you should at least show up in the likes facepile
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kylewm
i'm with you until the last step -- how could it figure out to fill in your heart in addition to add you to the facepile
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kylewm
that would be really killer
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www.marcus-povey.co.uk
edited /Known (+134) "/* No HTTPS support */" (view diff)
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voxpelli
I guess there needs to be a total of 2 clicks – one for starting the like on the 3:rd party site, one for confirming it on your own site
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voxpelli
there's realtime comments on my blog as well so feel free to try ;)
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tantek
you shouldn't need
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tantek
to click the second time
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Loqi
I agree
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tantek
notices https://indiewebcamp.com/real-time_comments#Pelle_Wessman
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voxpelli
tantek: what stops my blog from otherwise just making you like my page whenever I visit?
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tantek
voxpelli++ for being the second indieweb example of realtime comments!
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Loqi
voxpelli has 15 karma
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voxpelli
s/whenever I/whenever you/
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Loqi
voxpelli meant to say: tantek: what stops my blog from otherwise just making you like my page whenever you visit?
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kylewm
voxpelli++ I didn't now you had gone realtime, just tried it, worked great!
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Loqi
voxpelli has 16 karma
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tantek
voxpelli: because the indie-action endpoint should use POST
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voxpelli
tantek: oh, right – you mean the true browser supported indie-action? if so: I agree!
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tantek
voxpelli: but yes, getting those details right so you can do it with one click will take some work!
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voxpelli
I so need to put together a flow for updating my site from the web, so that I can start playing around with those parts as well
#
KartikPrabhu
is watching this nice talk: by Bret Victor: https://adactio.com/links/8075/ warning: might be too much theorising for some
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tantek.com
edited /baby-dont-hurt-me (+183) "see also ... via tommoris" (view diff)
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@kartik_prabhu
likes http://vimeo.com/115154289 @worrydream on The Humane Representation of Thought with lessons for #indieweb #science Found via @adactio (twtr.io/uiY5SCkNR4)
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tommorris.org
edited /POSSE (+274) "adding trans-silo POSSE example" (view diff)
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tantek
that's not POSSE, that's a form of PESETAS or just syndication
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tantek
there's no such thing as Trans-silo POSSE
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tantek
because no part of that is "posting on your own site" thus not POSSE
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tommorris
tantek: feel free to revert, I'll add a section to [[Tumblr][
#
tantek
probably need to add something to "Other Approaches"
#
tommorris.org
edited /Tumblr (+427) "adding mention of Tumblr syndication to Twitter" (view diff)
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tommorris
tantek: there, added it to the Tumblr page.
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tommorris.org
edited /POSSE (-274) "Undo revision 16365 by [[Special:Contributions/Tommorris.org|Tommorris.org]] ([[User talk:Tommorris.org|talk]]) - "trans-silo POSSE" squicks Tantek out, reverting until we can find a better way to document. in the meantime, documented on [[Tumblr]]" (view diff)
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tommorris
and self-reverted.
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tantek
hmm - just as I was trying to incorporate
#
tantek
let's see if this merges
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tommorris
at some point, we should probably get the VisualEditor onto IWC (and maybe microformats) wiki. VisualEditor promises less painful diffs and happier non-technical users. :)
#
tommorris
less painful merges, rather
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tantek.com
edited /POSSE (+739) "add subheads to other approaches, add pesetas, incorporate notes about Tumblr to Twitter in pesetas section" (view diff)
#
tantek
that page needed to have an explicit reference to PESETAS anyway under Other Approaches
#
tommorris
also, Tumblr does allow you to map your own domain to it. as does Squarespace.
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tommorris
I should braindump some notes about Squarespace. I used it for a family website recently.
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tantek.com
edited /POSSE (+37) "/* PESETAS */ Tumblr better than Twitter for pesetas" (view diff)
#
tantek
squarespace is more of a host than social network
#
tantek
like you don't follow other squarespaces on squarespace - but you do with tumblr
#
tantek
what is squarespace?
#
Loqi
Squarespace is a content hosting service (paid) that provides services such as blogging and domain hosting https://indiewebcamp.com/Squarespace
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tantek
tommorris: definitely share your experiences with it
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: on your homepage the like cluster with "likes Doc Searls's Linux Journal article “Hats Off to Mozilla”" has a permalink on the cluster date that goes to the wrong things
#
tantek
was *just* fixing that!
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KartikPrabhu
aah ok cool! I like the cluster display in home stream
#
tantek
(testing locally)
#
tantek
and reload homepage
#
KartikPrabhu
now it leads to more than the listed likes
#
KartikPrabhu
for instance the second like cluster with NovemberProjectSF... leads to a page where the first few likes are not the same ones
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tantek
right the date link leads to all likes for that date
#
tantek
right now it's just a flat expanded list
#
tantek
however, having separate page like that for all posts of a certain type on that day gives me the flexibility to style / design them nicer for that post type
#
KartikPrabhu
nods
#
tantek
that's actually new functionality as of this year that works for any of the post types on my site
#
tantek
e.g if you put a 't' at the end instead of an 'f' you'll see *only* the text notes
#
tantek
from that day
#
KartikPrabhu
yup. got that part :)
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ben_thatmust
YES!
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ben_thatmust
https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/1/4/1/
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tantek
whoa
#
ben_thatmust
its really rough yes, but it works
#
ben_thatmust
and it should be extremely easy to port to iOS, windows phone, and a number of other systems
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ben_thatmust
thanks to cordova/phonegap
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tantek
after wrestling with my u-syndication parsing/generation code flow, and rewriting a bunch of it to be smaller and more general purpose, I have an example of a like with a u-syndication link
#
tantek
http://tantek.com/2015/002/f4
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tantek
now to go back and add public like syndication URLs :/
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ben_thatmust
nice
#
tantek
so I'm doing this manually right now by checking my /allactivity on FB, scrolling to find the like post, hover over it to see a timestamp appear, right-click on the timestamp to get the permalink of the like post on FB
#
tantek
which is obviously too much work
#
tantek
so I'm hoping Bridgy Publish can be fixed to return a permalink of the like post
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tantek
when it POSSEs a like to FB
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ben_thatmust
yeah that would be very nice to have
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tantek
and I've now confirmed that all the Bridgy Publish POSSE likes of FB posts did show up in my /allactivity, and I've linked all of them from my original like posts
#
tantek
I had to add them manually to storage (editing an HTML file)
#
tantek
ok I don't see a Bridgy Publish issue on this so I'll add one
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tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+151) "/* auto Bridgy POSSE to FB */ note issue with getting permalinks from Bridgy for FB POSSE likes" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmust
if anyone else is interested in trying out the Micropub android app, i'll send you an apk. its REALLY rough though
#
ben_thatmust
if someone is set up for ios dev you can build it too
#
ben_thatmust
github repo coming soon
#
tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+0) "/* auto Bridgy POSSE to FB */ list fix" (view diff)
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tantek
just realized my 2015-001 ship commitment was quite a spur of the moment decision, I'd not yet documented "owning my likes" as Working On or an Itch! Closest was https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#implement_reposts_of_tweets
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snarfed
re FB like permalinks, if anyone knows how to get or generate them from the API, please let us know! https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/334
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tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+121) "/* auto Bridgy POSSE to FB */ note bridgy issue 331" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_
http://www.cni.org/news/personal-digital-archiving-2015-nyc-424-26-2015-call-for-participation/
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Loqi
KevinMarks_: voxpelli left you a message 12 hours, 25 minutes ago: I pushed a quick fix now for the duplicated text in the mentions on your site – it displays a sensible default now rather than the imported like/repost text
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snarfed
huh funny, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/305 is related - fb links with colons
#
tantek
yeah! all the like permalinks had colons in them
#
KevinMarks_
looks good voxpelli - I should try the facepile too
#
snarfed
…reading closer, not really related though. th like links had small numbers after the colon, e.g. 6, and that issue has one with probably an id
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tantek
well the ones I found in /allactivity anyway
#
tantek
removing the : and number afterwards shows a *different* like!
#
tantek
from two days earlier1
#
tantek
s/earlier1/earlier!
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: from two days earlier!
#
tantek
I'm looking at the syndication of this post in particular: http://tantek.com/2015/002/f1
#
snarfed
the api's /[user id]/likes returns a user's likes, but i don't see anything related to the permalinks
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snarfed
and those are just likes of pages, not post :/
#
snarfed
https://developers.facebook.com/tools/explorer?method=GET&path=me%2Flikes&version=v2.2
#
tantek
there's no "allactivity" in the API?
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snarfed
maybe! i'm just narrating as a go
#
tantek
hmm http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9984051/facebook-api-retrieve-all-activity
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snarfed
sigh
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snarfed
>2.5y old, but still
#
tantek
I'm assuming you don't want to scrap facebook.com/me/allactivity ?
#
tantek
s/scrap/scrape
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: I'm assuming you don't want to scrape facebook.com/me/allactivity ?
#
ben_thatmust
is indieauth.com having problems?
#
snarfed
tantek: lol. i'd have to ask for or generate a facebook auth cookie, so no, that's probably a non starter
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ben_thatmust
indieauth isn't loading for me :(
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tantek
class="uiLinkSubtle"
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tantek.com
edited /quotation (+656) "quotation as reminder is still just a bookmark" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_
Is the google openid 2 shutdown an indieauth adoption opportunity?
#
KevinMarks_
As indieauth supports openid 2 login
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ben_thatmust
okay, its definitely not me, indieauth.com isn't loading is it
#
ben_thatmust
jus ttried from a remote machine
#
KevinMarks_
I bet we could write shorter migration steps than Google's
#
tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+1083) "/* Working On */ improve like posts" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_
Not working for me either
#
KevinMarks_
https://developers.google.com/accounts/docs/OpenID#shutdown-timetable
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ben_thatmust
maybe its time for an alternative, shake out all those apps that always use indieauth instead of a site's preference
#
rascul
also down for me
#
tantek
KevinMarks could you add all that to /OpenID ?
#
tantek
and perhaps /Google ?
#
ben_thatmust
(assuming you can login to the wiki)
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KevinMarks_
That's hard enough on the phone anyway
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kylewm
snarfed: it's not looking for for FB like permalinks ... i tried creating one and then bubbling back up to the liked photo, and nothing
#
kylewm
s/for for/good for
#
Loqi
kylewm meant to say: snarfed: it's not looking good for FB like permalinks ... i tried creating one and then bubbling back up to the liked photo, and nothing
#
ben_thatmust
KevinMarks_ while i have you. what you some things you might like from an android MP client?
#
kylewm
ben_thatmust: photo upload!!
#
KevinMarks_
Ltd love to try it
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KevinMarks_
I use known as a web app for that
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kylewm
KevinMarks_: it can't resize though (right?)
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snarfed
kylewm: thanks for looking! what do you mean by "bubbling back up?"
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KevinMarks_
Do send me info on the app, I was going to change my notifications one and it would be good to work out urls to communicate
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KevinMarks_
And I have a nexus 6 to test on now
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ben_thatmust
kylewm, sounds like a good idea its definitely possible http://plugins.cordova.io/#/package/org.apache.cordova.camera
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kylewm
snarfed: I just mean I POSTed to {post-id}/likes, it returned {'success': true}, and then i tried looking {post-id}/likes and {post-id}
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ben_thatmust
https://github.com/dissolve/micropublish
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ben_thatmust
just initial proof of concept, there is lots to do
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ben_thatmust
i'll add info on how to build to the readme.md soon, basically just follow the cordova tutorial and you should be able to get there
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ben_thatmust
currently only 1 field (content) and the syndicate-to is hard-coded (next to fix)
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ben_thatmust
but indieauth works on it (if indieauth.com would come back up)
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ben_thatmust
okay afk for a bit
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snarfed
kylewm: got it, thanks. np, we can deprioritize…plenty of others on https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Anow to tackle
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snarfed
kylewm: speaking of which…you mentioned posseing instagram likes? :P
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kylewm
snarfed: yeah! i added it to redwind today
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snarfed
oh nice!
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snarfed
do you use an ig api lib or the rest api directly?
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kylewm
oh, directly
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snarfed
good call. wish i'd done that to start with.
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kylewm
hmm, yeah i hear ya
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kylewm
is there any prior art for link-previews on like posts? it's not obvious how to mark them up, unless it's p-like-of h-cite (like reply context)
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KartikPrabhu
that's what I'd do
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kylewm
ok so when tantek said "there's no such thing as like context", that was just a semantic distinction
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GWG
kylewm: I think the term he used was link preview
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kylewm
GWG: it was, i just didn't know if there was a markup distinction
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GWG
kylewm: I've long been lost.
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aaronpk
indieauth.com is fine for me... is it still down for anyone?
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kylewm
aaronpk: lgtm
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kylewm
maybe I spoke too soon...
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aaronpk
srsly?
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ben_thatmust
its back for me
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rascul
yeah back now
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kylewm
it seems very slow to me?
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kylewm
snarfed: to double check, we'd need to turn on the publish switch for instagram so that users can authorize bridgy to publish on their behalf and then just implement the -> like api calls?
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kylewm
i'm happy to take a look at that one... makes sense since i just did it locally
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snarfed
kylewm: awesome, thanks! yeah, that's what i think. i expect there are at least a few more places that have [fb, tw] hard coded somehow that we'd need to update, e.g. in the ui, but manual testing should flush them out
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ben_thatmust
apk link https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxbIiFMv4MOeLUc3dEJWenF0ZjQ/view?usp=sharing
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ben_thatmust
for those who want to see if there are any problems. Don't expect the syndicate-to to be right for you, thats how i use it
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tantek
has anyone run their own website / a web server from a mobile batteries only situation like with a mifi for network access?
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GWG
Not permanently.
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GWG
You have the same program you do with any ISP service
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tantek
just wondering how hard it is (if even possible) to route a domain name through a mifi and to a device on its network
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GWG
Possibly Changing IP
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tantek
are there mifis with static IP?
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tantek
either way - I'm curious about it
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GWG
That I've never looked into
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tantek
would be interesting to try - and then design for - that is - the web of temporarily connected things
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tantek
see how well all our protocols etc. hold up in such situations
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snarfed
tantek: sounds like dynamic dns
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tantek
snarfed, that would likely need to be part of it
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GWG
There's always IPV6
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tantek
but I mean what to do when the dns doesn't actually resolve because the device is not always online
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tantek
I don't know how IPV6 makes any difference in the "sometimes connected" use-case I'm talking about. GWG, do you know how IPV6 could help?
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snarfed
ah. sure. that's a product/design/policy question
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tantek
hence a question of can our protocols handle it
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tantek
and do something intelligent from the UX perspective
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snarfed
i vaguely remember hearing people who'd set up a cdn as a fallback
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tantek
imagine your simple webhost as the CDN, while the "main" server is the mobile thing with you
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tantek
client-server-server architecture as it were
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tantek
anyway mostly wanted to see who if anyone has run a website from a mifi
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aaronpk
I was scheming a design like that a while ago, also potentially serving the site from a home internet connection
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aaronpk
using the CDN as the public facing server, which would serve the latest cached content if the backend is unavailable
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tantek
yeah
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aaronpk
kind of gets into the realm of designing a service that can continue to function if the database or storage mechanism is offline
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snarfed
static site generators kind of do that
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aaronpk
also similar to the kids who would temporarily disable their facebook accounts when they were AFK
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snarfed
so do caching solutions that store/serve long-lived cached pages on disk
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aaronpk
so that people couldn't interact with their digital representations while their real-life selves were not online
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aaronpk
http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2010/11/08/risk-reduction-strategies-on-facebook.html
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tantek
whoa that's fascinating
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aaronpk
"...when she’s not logged in, no one can post messages on her wall or send her messages privately or browse her content. But when she’s logged in, they can do all of that."
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tantek
what is super logoff?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "super logoff" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=super+logoff
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tantek
aaronpk ^^^ go for it - stub it with that article!
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tantek
that second scenario - where the person is deleting content after they've processed it or after it's aged a certain amount - I wonder if simply archive it as "private" (visible only to her) would be sufficient. that way she could personally search/reference it while to everyone else it would look deleted.
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tantek
what is ephemeral?
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aaronpk
what's the proper header to reference sources?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "ephemeral" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=ephemeral
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GWG
tantek: It's designed to cover the IPs of the increasing number of mobile devices.
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GWG
I was thinking in terms of addressing
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tantek
aaronpk - just drop a link
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tantek
or if you really want - h-cite
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aaronpk
See Also?
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tantek
GWG - I know the basics of IPV6 - I was asking if you brought it up for a specific applicable reason to the use-case.
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ben_thatmust
aaronpk, indieauth is giving me trouble again
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aaronpk
ben_thatmust: what's up?
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aaronpk
the ssl thing again?
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ben_thatmust
no, just sits loading
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aaronpk
oh weird
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ben_thatmust
wget https://indieauth.com
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ben_thatmust
--2015-01-03 22:46:54-- https://indieauth.com/
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ben_thatmust
Resolving indieauth.com... 173.230.155.197
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ben_thatmust
Connecting to indieauth.com|173.230.155.197|:443... connected.
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ben_thatmust
HTTP request sent, awaiting response...
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aaronpk
odd, there are only two processes running but there should be 10
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ben_thatmust
huh
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ben_thatmust
this is what was happening earlier too
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tantek.com
edited /expiring_content (+15) "mention ephemeral so it can be found via search" (view diff)
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tantek.com
created /ephemeral (+30) "r" (view diff)
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tantek
I knew I'd written something about this before
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aaronparecki.com
created /super_logoff (+397) "stub with dfn and sources" (view diff)
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tantek
aaronpk - yes see also is a good catch all. but in this case you can cite it directly in the dfn since it's a defining article
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tantek
or put it both places
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aaronpk
ben_thatmust: I wonder if I'd have better luck running this as its own app rather than via passenger
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tantek.com
edited /Facebook (+19) "/* See Also */ super logoff" (view diff)
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kylewm
huh, I do the "delete old Facebook posts" thing
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tantek
kylewm - why delete instead of make private (your eyes only) ?
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kylewm
not quite to the same extreme
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ben_thatmust
aaronpk, possibly, i've had problems with passenger in the past
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aaronpk
I just don't know why it's not running 10 of them like I'mt elling it to
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aaronpk
let me see if I can switch it out quick
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kylewm
tantek: guess I'm hoping they will delete it from their servers eventually
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tantek
hah
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tantek
what is delete?
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Loqi
https://indiewebcamp.com/delete
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tantek.com
edited /report_abuse (+185) "/* Instagram User */ expand This profile is pretending to be someone else, more incremental documentation" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (+179) "why - numerous reasons, e.g. hoping others will delete from their servers eventually per kylewm" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /super_logoff (+56) "in particular silo, see also FB" (view diff)
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tantek
what is do not disturb?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "do not disturb" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=do+not+disturb
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tantek
it seems to me that "super logoff" is basically a "do not disturb" hack
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tantek
imagine if the "Do Not Disturb" crescent moon button in the iOS swipe-up overlay UI did exactly that with all your online profiles - disable *all* interactions with them.
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ben_thatmust
still no luck aaronpk?
#
tantek
I've thought about how a "Do Not Disturb" button would/should work with indie /comms - that is, being able to push a "Do Not Disturb" button/setting on your website, and have it disable all the interruptive methods of communication on your /contact page (perhaps only allowing non-interruptive / store & forward methods like email)
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aaronpk
ben_thatmust: almost got it
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aaronpk
it's way faster with puma
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ben_thatmust
now do i dare tell you i got a quill error?
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aaronpk
hang on it's not live yet :)
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ben_thatmust
heh
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ben_thatmust
okay
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+468) "add Micropublish project" (view diff)
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aaronpk
ben_thatmust: okay it's running now
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aaronpk
i think it's faster too
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aaronpk
although for some reason github auth doesn't work now
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aaronpk
it's like it's hanging trying to make a request to github.com
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aaronpk
i have no idea why it would do that
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aaronpk
well now it seems to be fine
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ben_thatmust
aaronpk, now as to other issue... http://pastebin.com/XU5UTecD
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aaronpk
oh dear
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ben_thatmust
i was trying to set up discovery of my endpoints
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ben_thatmust
err syndication targets
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aaronpk
oh that's cause i haven't updated quill to work with array syntax for syndicat-to
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aaronpk
this should be an easy fix... one sec
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aaronpk
man, rapidly switching between ruby and php is confusing
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aaronpk
ben_thatmust: can you try it again?
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ben_thatmust
fhttp://pastebin.com/qCY9FuMg
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aaronpk
bah
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aaronpk
fixed
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ben_thatmust
that worked
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aaronpk
nice
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ben_thatmust
and now i know that my micropub?q=syndicate-to works right
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aaronpk
yay
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ben_thatmust
thats the next bit I want to add to the app
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ben_thatmust
off to bed, goodnight guys
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Loqi
goodnight!
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tantek
good night ben_thatmust!
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GWG
tantek: How do I write Ting as an Indieweb thing?
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tantek
GWG they're a service provider, like a web host.
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GWG
Yes, but no one has written up Verizon and so on
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GWG
I may ask for your feedback.
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tantek
what is comcast?
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Loqi
Comcast is a service provider that provides internet access to businesses and personal homes https://indiewebcamp.com/Comcast
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tantek
GWG - there you go
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david.shanske.com
created /Ting (+991) "Created page with "<dfn>[https://ting.com Ting]</dfn> is a mobile virtual network provider(MVNO) owned by TUCOWS launched in February of 2012. Ting is characterized by a per-unit usage model where ..."" (view diff)
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GWG
How's that?
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GWG
I hate to feel like I'm advertising.
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GWG
I do like these people though
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tantek
GWG, good start! If you're worried about advertising, I'd say drop the referral link, and instead add an IndieWeb Examples section and add yourself as a user - just note people can ping you in IRC if they want a referral link.
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david.shanske.com
edited /Ting (+114) (view diff)
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GWG
There
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GWG
Indieweb Examples in
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tantek
ok. I'm going to drop the referral link because that's a common spam pattern and even though I know that is not your intent at all, it can appear that way to others who may find the page without context
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GWG
Okay. Not a problem.
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GWG
I'll make the correction
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tantek.com
edited /Ting (+63) "minor tweaks" (view diff)
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tantek
great - appreciated
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david.shanske.com
edited /Ting (-46) "/* Indieweb Examples */" (view diff)
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GWG
I'll just stick to writing Indieweb WordPress stuff, I think
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colintedford.com
edited /User:Colintedford.com (+61) "Moved "microformats 2" (view diff)
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kylewm
can someone else check the Instagram website to see if the "Embed" option is missing? it's supposed to be there... http://instagram.com/developer/embedding/#
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aaronpk
kylewm: I see it
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tantek
depends on JS?
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aaronpk
one of my photos anyway
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tantek
what is embed?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "embed" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=embed
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kylewm
oh good call, aaronpk i wasn't looking at my own photos
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kylewm
the embed doesn't seem to work when I copy it somewhere else though...
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colintedford
Does http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-card/ check for p-adr?
#
colintedford
Or any of the adr related stuff?
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bret
colintedford: i'm not sure
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bret
but any of the generic MF2 parsers should
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bret
colintedford: check out http://pin13.net and http://tools.transmat.io
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colintedford
Thanks, bret.
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colintedford
Those pick 'em up; looks like indiewebify.me doesn't check physical address properties.
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tantek
colintedford: what do you suggest that it check?
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colintedford
tantek: all the h-card stuff! :)
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colintedford
I have p-post-office-box, p-locality, p-region, & p-postal-code & they didn
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colintedford
't show up.
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tantek
ah, you're looking for a general h-card validator
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tantek
beyond the minimum for the indieweb
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colintedford
Yeah, I didn't realize it just checked a subset.
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colintedford
A note re: that would be fine; I was just confused/worried when the "h-card validator" didn't pik up some of my stuff.
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colintedford
*pick
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tantek
yes that makes sense
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colintedford.com
edited /h-card (+90) "/* Validators */ indiewebify me doesn't check whole h-card" (view diff)
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colintedford.com
edited /User:Colintedford.com (-25) "(accidentally submitted last edit) Moved "microformats 2" & "date archives" from "Wants" to "Working on", expanded mf2, marked h-card done, rm extra "https".." (view diff)
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tantek
colintedford: thanks much for filing that issue!
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colintedford
No problem!
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KartikPrabhu
Twitter notifications are weird! everytime I go to the page it show me something different!
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KartikPrabhu
anyone else notice that?
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tantek.com
edited /quotation (+23) "/* bookmark */ improve wording" (view diff)
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: do you have an indieweb version of this post? https://plus.google.com/+KartikPrabhu/posts/UzKErSbfmHq
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: unfortunately haven't got to importing all my silo stuff yet... do you need an indieweb version... I can make it now
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tantek
I found it via http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2014/04/30/2/
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tantek
which I'm trying to intuit whether it truly is just a /bookmark (with a quote as a reminder / summary of what the bookmark is about), or it is a /quotation that was deliberately extracted to share
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tantek
I'm going to guess that the intent and primary content was the quotation more than the bookmark, which is just there as information about the quotation.
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tantek
similarly with http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2014/06/11/1/
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: i suspect those are quotations
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: PESOSed https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/popularscience-shut-comments
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tantek
backdated and everything
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KartikPrabhu
yup! :)
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KartikPrabhu
had to do it manually but haven't found a good G+ import tool yet
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tantek
KartikPrabhu - any luck with a batch Google Takeout importer?
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KartikPrabhu
I have used that... but it seems it gives some sort of XML thing that I have to code to import into my db-system
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KartikPrabhu
I am waiting to finish my notes-file-storage so I can write that code instead of the DB one
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KartikPrabhu
turns out if you edit>copy the text in your G+ posts, the #tags don't get copied as plaintext because they are links! Thanks Google!
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tantek
perhaps code to import it into flat h-entrys - then anyone else can re-use it to import from that
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: yes. my file-storage is html+mf2 based ;)
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KartikPrabhu
thinks it is weird how fast I can PESOS with his horrible posting UI
#
KartikPrabhu
s/I/his
#
Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: thinks it is weird how fast his can PESOS with his horrible posting Uhis
#
KartikPrabhu
boo
#
tantek
Loqi, what are Uhis?
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colintedford
I had a case of the Posting Uhis once.
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tantek.com
edited /quotation (+355) "/* Aaron Parecki */ note which bookmarks are more like quotation posts, and note which one isn't" (view diff)
#
KartikPrabhu
lol that sub messed up on many levels
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: I would tend to make a fragmentioned-bookmark as equivalent to a quotation. that sound reasonable?
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tantek
not at all
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KartikPrabhu
hmm
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KartikPrabhu
what is quotation?
#
Loqi
A quotation is a type of post that is primarily a subset of the contents of another post, and often has a citation of that other post https://indiewebcamp.com/quotation
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: according to that defn it seems to fit ^
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tantek
it does not because of the key word "primarily"
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KartikPrabhu
hmm so what does the primarily denote?
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KartikPrabhu
isn't that what bookmarking a fragmentioned-url represent?
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colintedford
Not if you want to bookmark a point in a long document.
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KartikPrabhu
currently I see no mechanism to bookmark a particular point
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KartikPrabhu
fragmention explicitly refers to some text
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tantek
it refers to a starting point in some text
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tantek
whereas a quotation refers to a chunk of text with discrete start *and* end
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colintedford
Right, it's like making your own fragment identifier.
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KartikPrabhu
so it seems we have no easier way to post quotations than to manually copy-past the whole text... ?
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tantek
hard to prove "no easier way" :P
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KartikPrabhu
I was thinking use a fragmentioned-url as link in bookmark ( only URL to copy-paste ) then have your micropub interpret it as a quotation
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: a bookmark with a fragmention is still just a bookmark
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KartikPrabhu
hmmm... maybe I still don't get the distinction
#
KartikPrabhu
the intent of both seems the same
#
tantek
the distinction is the focus and primary intent
#
tantek
not at all
#
tantek
totally different
#
KartikPrabhu
so maybe the intent should be in the defn
#
KartikPrabhu
what is bookmark?
#
Loqi
A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is typically comprised of a URL and optional text accompanying it https://indiewebcamp.com/bookmark
#
tantek
the intent of a /quotation is that it makes sense even out of context, shared on its own. hence *primarily a subset of the contents*
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KartikPrabhu
neither of the defns capture the user-intent
#
tantek
primarily captures intent
#
KartikPrabhu
no. "makes sense out of context" implies some intent
#
tantek
and "optional text" makes it clear that that text is secondary
#
KartikPrabhu
primarily does not mean anything. atleast to me
#
tantek
thus both definitions already indicate what matters the most to each
#
tantek
primarily means more than secondarily
#
tantek
means more than other things. first second third.
#
tantek
etc.
#
KartikPrabhu
hmm maybe I just want to post bookmarks
#
tantek
optional clearly indicates not primary
#
tantek
though the bookmark dfn can be improved
#
KartikPrabhu
also words like "typically" are confusing. Am I supposed to be typical or not?
#
KartikPrabhu
I know I am free to not follow these defns and I have not in the past
#
tantek
right, typically is bad and I'm fixing that now
#
tantek.com
edited /bookmark (-86) "make it clear bookmark is primarily about the URL, and other aspects are secondary even if often" (view diff)
#
tantek
what is a bookmark
#
Loqi
A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is primarily comprised of a URL, often title text from that URL, sometimes optional text describing or quoting from its contents https://indiewebcamp.com/bookmark
#
tantek.com
edited /bookmark (-34) "collapse further" (view diff)
#
@t
#indieweb building blocks reply-context, fragmentions, marginalia help distinguish quotations: http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Why (ttk.me t4Zy1) (twtr.io/ujNbiLbAJf)
(or join via IRC, Matrix, or Slack)