#indiewebcamp 2015-01-30

2015-01-30 UTC
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KevinMarks_ ouch: Angular today… It’s like a cancer in your views https://javascriptkicks.com/stories/2657
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-028-hwc-sf-pdx.jpg]]""
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aaronpk wow we are so big
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aaronpk aw we missed emmak, she got there like 5 minutes after the photo!
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GWG I really have to find a HWC contingent
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GWG You guys always sound like you are having a blast
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aaronpk last night was fun! still need to write up my notes
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GWG I think the closest regular in here is bear
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KevinMarks_ I think I missed some good stuff
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GWG KevinMarks_: Such as?
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KevinMarks_ aaronpk: also you make us look green
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aaronpk haha
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KevinMarks_ the kindle notes to pages tool sounds good
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KevinMarks_ I always worry amazon will erase those
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tantek_ aaronpk could you embed the hwc photo on the event page for it? Am mobile and wiki edits are hard
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (+33) "add photo!" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ how do I stop bloody markdown hiding angle brackets?
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KevinMarks_ !tell snarfed,kylewm Bridgy needs its own User-Agent https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/358
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed KevinMarks_: thanks for filing!
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snarfed following up there
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Loqi snarfed: KevinMarks_ left you a message 11 minutes ago: Bridgy needs its own User-Agent https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/358
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GWG snarfed: +1 on the User-Agent idea
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snarfed GWG: hmm i'm not sure i am yet. i'd really like to know what part of her config is blocking first, since the vast majority of other WP sites don't have this problem
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GWG It might solve the problems with people filtering generic python user agents.
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GWG Also, great for log analysis
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snarfed not really convinced, but we can see. followups in the issue
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GWG snarfed: How about a Bridgy user agent as an advertisement for Bridgy?
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GWG A poor one, but....people will ask..."What's Bridgy?"
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kylewm can anybody tell me why my CSS looks like this on desktop https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/woodwind-on-desktop.png but this on mobile https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/woodwind-mobile.png for supposedly the same resolution?
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Loqi kylewm: KevinMarks_ left you a message 21 minutes ago: Bridgy needs its own User-Agent https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/358
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KevinMarks_ different assumed dpi?
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KevinMarks_ look at http://dpi.lv/
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kylewm ah ok that sounds promising
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kylewm well that's strange, i get 221ppi in the default android browser, and 110 in firefox
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kylewm firefox for android that is
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gRegor` kylewm: small bug. Got an internal server error when I tried to subscribe to "gregorlove.com/notes" Worked fine when I added the http
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kylewm oh thanks, I got bit by that one too
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snarfed GWG: it's already there in the user agent. https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/python/urlfetch/#headers_identifying_request_source
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gRegor` Looking at your screenshots, is the difference in the like button styling what you're asking about?
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gRegor` And the avatar outside the content box, I'm guessing?
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GWG snarfed: Is it? I haven't looked in ages
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GWG will check his logs
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kylewm gRegor`: yes, mainly how the buttons and text are overrunning their boxes
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kylewm but i also don't understand why my media query isn't kicking in for the avatars
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gRegor` Hm. So the first screenshot is how you expect it to look on Firefox mobile, correct?
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kylewm exactly
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kylewm should be the same resolution, though different dpi
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kylewm (my feed is all benwerd all the time)
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gRegor` That should be the name of his podcast.
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GWG You need more people in your feed then
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benwerd kylewm: eek, sorry about that.
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 1 week, 5 days ago: I get "target page does not exist" when sending webmentions to Known install on https://michielbdejong.com/ e.g. from http://tantek.com/2015/017/f1 - any idea how to debug? or help Michiel debug?
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 1 week, 5 days ago: Known webmention receiving error details documented here - need help troubleshooting this: https://indiewebcamp.com/Known#The_target_page_does_not_exist
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 1 week, 3 days ago: can you make the HWC SF meetup on 01-28? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message 1 week ago: are you you able to make it to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club next Wednesday? Could you post an indie event and add it to: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club#URLs ? Thanks!
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benwerd and sorry about *that*.
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gRegor` Hm, odd. in Chrome dev tools the mimic mobile at 720 resolution also shows the avatars outside...
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kylewm benwerd: it's not even remotely your fault. keep posting lots, please
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gRegor` But in Chrome itself if I resize it down, it works.
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gRegor` Something with the viewport scale?
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GWG benwerd: You have a podcast?
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benwerd GWG: for a while I was trying to post a new audio post every Sunday. I've fallen behind lately but want to pick it up again.
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kylewm gRegor`: what means viewport scale?
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gRegor` kylewm: Try adding <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1">
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gRegor` Desktop browsers don't take the viewport value into account, but mobile ones do.
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GWG benwerd: On life in general?
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kylewm magic incantation worked!
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benwerd GWG: sort of, but through the lens of the web
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kylewm gregornobacktick++ thanks!
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Loqi gregornobacktick has 35 karma
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gRegor` woot!
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Loqi giggles
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gRegor` I forget the reasoning/history behind it, but mobile browsers default viewport width is usually wrong. I think it's to mimic a desktop or something, or squeeze all the content in.
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gRegor` So setting it to width=device-width makes it work, and makes content not so teeny-tiny on non-responsive sites.
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kylewm it's funny, I have that meta tag in kylewm.com, along with
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kylewm <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge" />
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kylewm which was supposed to be my bare minimum, from scratch attempt at writing html
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gRegor` I have an .htaccess directive if you want to get rid of X-UA-Compatible in the HTML, heh
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gRegor` I found it after trying to strictly validate a client site
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kylewm gRegor`: you were able to log in to the reader though? did you subscribe to anything?
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gRegor` Yep! Myself. I'm so vain . . .
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kylewm I realize already that I screwed up and had Users to Feeds one to many, not many to many
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gRegor` I thought this reader was about me.
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kylewm it would've been awesome if i had done it correctly and you would have subbed to yourself and seen three days of history already!
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gRegor` This is the .htaccess method I've used for X-UA-Compat: https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/blob/master/dist/.htaccess#L125
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gRegor` Ooh, yeah that'd be cool.
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kylewm ah interesting
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gRegor` How frequently are you polling?
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kylewm 1/hour
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gRegor` I'm subscribing to tylerfontaine.me and it gives me the option for "/rss (xml)" and "http://tylerfontaine.me (html)"
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gRegor` Doesn't have mf2 though. What's the latter option?
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kylewm boo...
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kylewm it all needs some work still
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gRegor` internal server error when I selected RSS
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kylewm yeah it should have been tylerfontaine.me/rss
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gRegor` Sorry to kick the tires when it's so early :)
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kylewm I was asking for it!
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kylewm you also cannot enter an XML feed directly yet :(
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kylewm is filing issues
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gRegor` So are you planning to keep this open for others?
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@goodgle 인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까? http:///404.php @maso_twt 님이 공유 (twitter.com/_/status/560983477751787521)
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kylewm I...hmm...I'm not sure, I hadn't really thought about it
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kylewm I would like to! though maybe I would host a shared verison on heroku rather than my little DO instance
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gRegor` Cool cool.
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gRegor` It's a great start, regardless.
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KevinMarks_ are you h-feed primarily?
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KevinMarks_ 'cos if so you could use unmung for the non-hfeed
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KevinMarks_ and that will give me a reason to optimise it a abit
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KevinMarks_ :D
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gRegor` Left a bit of (benign) XSS for your testing purposes, kylewm :)
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kylewm hahaha
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gRegor` My subscription vanished. I'm outraged by this silo! I'm gonna host my own reader.
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kylewm oh no!
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kylewm I thought you would not notice
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kylewm I tried to move you to my feed
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gRegor` I figured
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gRegor` Ohh
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kylewm KevinMarks_: I should use unmung! right now I am calling feedparser directly, but tha towuld be nicer
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KevinMarks_ feedparser is pretty good at normalizing feeds
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KevinMarks_ also html sanitizing
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KevinMarks_ If you're going to poll it i'll add 304 handling and caching (yay state)
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KevinMarks_ which feedparser does, you just need to give it the info
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kylewm yah, that is a big TODO
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kylewm oh sorry, i read that as "you'll need to add"
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kylewm (which I still do)
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KevinMarks_ you should use input type=url on your feed url
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KevinMarks_ yes, you'll need to add it too, eventually
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kylewm whoa, I did not know about type=url
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kylewm I'm pleasantly surprised you two were able to log in without micropub support, it just worked?
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KevinMarks_ it gave an error, but was logged in when I reloaded
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kylewm ha ok that is more what i would expect...
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KevinMarks_ it doesn't liek the dates on kevinmarks.com
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KevinMarks_ 'cos I don't post times maybe?
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kylewm didn't find your author u-photo either...
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KevinMarks_ my embedded svg worked
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kylewm KevinMarks_: it only didn't find dates on ~7 of your posts.. apparently doesn't handle year-month or just year
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kylewm filed a bug https://github.com/kylewm/mf2util/issues/2
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KevinMarks_ is the edge case
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kylewm KevinMarks_: I don't think your hcard can be found via /authorship
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kylewm it's looking for p-author h-card
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kylewm it is genuinely really fun having you guys alpha test this, even though I didn't expect it :P
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kylewm KevinMarks++
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kylewm gregornobacktick++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 77 karma
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KevinMarks_ It's an mf1 hcard
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KevinMarks_ hm, indiewebifyme doesn't like the photo either
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kylewm gRegor`: ha https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38780898/gregor-xss.png
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gRegor` Nice
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KevinMarks_ looks like you're stripping my u-audio
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KevinMarks_ I tried http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeeds.99percentinvisible.org%2F99percentinvisible
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KevinMarks_ ah, and i'm making crappy datetimes
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kylewm should I add <audio> and <video> to the bleach whitelist?
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KevinMarks_ I think so
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kylewm I thinK I need to give up on parsing datetimes and just using python-dateuitl
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kylewm it parses your date times just fine
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KevinMarks_ heh
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KevinMarks_ yes python date-util is ratehr excessive
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KevinMarks_ 'any kind of date at all? sure'
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kylewm haha
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kylewm that is a project scope i would not wish on my worst enemy
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KevinMarks_ python's libraries tend to be like that unlike , say, stuff in npm
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@PhilCorbettLive I wrote "Toasting Marshmallows Around the IndieWebCamp Fire"; read it here http://t.co/DYGeu46Rpe. (twitter.com/_/status/561002936009256960)
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@mshook IndieWeb advocates launch Known so bloggers can be social and still control their content — Tech News and .. http://mshook.withknown.com/2015/indieweb-advocates-launch-known-so-bloggers-can-be-social-and-1 (twitter.com/_/status/561005996399529984)
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@PhilCorbettLive January 30, 2015 at 11:30AM - Toasting Marshmallows Around the IndieWebCamp Fire http://blog.philcorbett.net/2015/01/toasting-marshmallows-around.html?utm_content=buffer4741a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/561012511823368192)
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@nobantu Final Hours of EarlyBirdTickets for the 20th #IIW XX: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-identity-workshop-xx-20-2015a-tickets-14097972415 #identity #privacy #VRM #CRM #IoT #UMA #openID #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/561181516567281664)
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@kevinmarks Rethinking link presentation for readability https://medium.com/de-correspondent/links-are-broken-these-three-alternatives-have-improved-our-readers-reading-experience-796c302c8930 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/561196696068030464)
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@puremunky Toasting Marshmallows Around the IndieWebCamp Fire http://blog.philcorbett.net/2015/01/toasting-marshmallows-around.html?utm_content=buffer4741a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/561199729510711296)
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@alexhorre RT @kevinmarks: Rethinking link presentation for readability https://medium.com/de-correspondent/links-are-broken-these-three-alternatives-have-improved-our-readers-reading-experience-796c302c8930 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/561199759864893440)
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@alohastone Jetzt auch mit Facebook-Kommentaren und -Likes im Blog. Wird langsam. #webmentions #indieweb #bridgy http://www.alohastone.com/2015/01/15/schwesta-ewa-16bars-exclusive/ (twitter.com/_/status/561205104305799170)
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@kevinmarks @ciberch @apparentlymart we have Homebrew Website Club every other week - come along http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/561213861748293633)
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Loqi [bridgy] Monica Wilkinson favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/561213861748293633)
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GWG Good afternoon all
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JonathanNeal Hi GWG
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@pierreozoux IndieWeb (french) https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/indieweb-french (twitter.com/_/status/561229864788037632)
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Loqi [mention] Pierre Ozoux commented 'IndieWeb (french) 3 min read Aujourd'hui, on ne peut pas parler de blogging sans parler d'In...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/silo (https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/indieweb-french)
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Loqi [mention] Pierre Ozoux commented 'IndieWeb (french) 3 min read Aujourd'hui, on ne peut pas parler de blogging sans parler d'In...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/indieweb-french)
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@loicmathaud je viens de recevoir ma première WebMention #depucelage (twitter.com/_/status/561230735953371137)
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Loqi [mention] Pierre Ozoux commented 'IndieWeb (french) 3 min read Aujourd'hui, on ne peut pas parler de blogging sans parler d'In...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/pingback (https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/indieweb-french)
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Loqi [mention] Pierre Ozoux commented 'IndieWeb (french) 3 min read Aujourd'hui, on ne peut pas parler de blogging sans parler d'In...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/indieweb-french)
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Loqi [mention] Pierre Ozoux commented 'IndieWeb (french) 3 min read Aujourd'hui, on ne peut pas parler de blogging sans parler d'In...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com (https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/indieweb-french)
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@pchapuis RT @pierreozoux: IndieWeb (french) https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/indieweb-french (twitter.com/_/status/561241882270138368)
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@nhoizey RT @loicmathaud: je viens de recevoir ma première WebMention #depucelage (twitter.com/_/status/561243557634539520)
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tantek.com edited /events/next-hwc (+0) "look to the future" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /next-hwc (+53) "shorter" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-7) "shorter, consistent" (view diff)
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@t @ciberch @kevinmarks @apparentlymart use this http://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc We update it to auto-redirect to the next meetup. (ttk.me t4_R1) (twitter.com/_/status/561252513794387969)
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KevinMarks_ I love that french post - frissons!
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tantek.com edited /ActivityStreams (+199) "/* Origins */ make it actually link to origins, the other stuff here is more like design considerations, subhead it accordingly" (view diff)
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Loqi [bridgy] Tantek Çelik replied '@ciberch @kevinmarks @apparentlymart use this indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc We update it to auto-redirect to the next meetup. (ttk.me t4_R1)' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-14-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/t/status/561252513794387969)
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+104) "/* 2009 */ first AS meetup" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Activity_Streams (+29) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /ActivityStreams (+138) "/* Origins */ quote" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks “Aujourd'hui, on ne peut pas parler de blogging sans parler d'IndieWeb!… J'en ai des frissons rien que d'y penser.” https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/indieweb-french (twitter.com/_/status/561258025474723841)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: “Aujourd'hui, on ne peut pas parler de blogging sans parler d'IndieWeb!… J'en ai des frissons rien que d'y penser.” https:/… (twitter.com/_/status/561259976077762560)
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KevinMarks google translate rather ballsed up the french of that post
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tantek has anyone ever (wanted to) post(ed) a series of links as the way they got to something that they bookmarked?
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aaronpk like a breadcrumb trail?
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tantek yeah, breadcrumb(s) is exactly the word I was thinking of
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aaronpk that's a better use of breadcrumb than in-site navigation!
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tantek indeed!
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aaronpk cool idea. i haven't don that, but the closest thing is when I tag a bookmark with the name of ther person who sent it to me
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aaronpk which is something I picked up from http://dreev.es
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tantek that's more attribution
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tantek Twitter has had "via" for that for a while
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aaronpk hm maybe. although my intent is not attribution, it's more for my own knowledge of where it came from
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Pierre-O KevinMarks: ok, I'll work on a translation and let you know :)
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Loqi Pierre-O: kylewm left you a message 3 weeks, 1 day ago: it looks like your indieauth is working now?
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tantek aaronpk: more like who it came from
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tantek "tag a bookmark with the **name** of ther person"
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KevinMarks I liked it in french, but google got the opening sentence wrong
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aaronpk here are two links that dreeves sent me http://aaronparecki.com/tag/dreeves
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tantek still very different than "I clicked this to get to that"
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Pierre-O Loqi message to kylewm yes, somehow it started to work, I think the issue was the https
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Loqi yeah!
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aaronpk yes. that's why i said i haven't posted a breadcrumb, but this was the only thing that was similar
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tantek sometimes this kind of breadcrumbing is a result of wwilfing http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wwilf
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KevinMarks Bing on twitter also messes up: "Today, cannot talk about blogging not to mention IndieWeb!..." "I have chills nothing to think about."
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Loqi [bridgy] Monica Wilkinson favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc (https://twitter.com/t/status/561252513794387969)
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tantek aaronpk++ ^^^ looks like the Loqi / bridgy wording has finally been fixed!
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Loqi aaronpk has 677 karma
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aaronpk tantek: in some cases yes, not sure why only sometimes
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KevinMarks steve is talking about the rise of XML
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aaronpk it's rising?
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reidab XML's line count will always rise
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KevinMarks this is a historic discussion
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KevinMarks historical
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tantek lol
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tantek then point out the cycles
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tantek XML was fashionable, now is not
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tantek JSON is perhaps mid-fashion
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tantek all of this has happened before and will happen again
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tantek more: http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/22/1/why-not-json
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tantek aaronpk: just noticed that protocol buffers and capnproto didn't make it into your article yet!
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aaronpk ah crap yeah
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aaronpk i still think it's funny i didn't remember writing that post
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KevinMarks interesting set of rules for standards: http://adambosworth.net/2009/10/29/talking-to-dc/
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@kevinmarks “All successful standards are as simple as possible, not as hard as possible.” http://adambosworth.net/2009/10/29/talking-to-dc/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/561295521935929345)
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tantek so not true KevinMarks
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tantek they are merely simpler than what previously existed
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tantek not as simple as possible
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KevinMarks that's a very good point
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aaronpk I like this part: "Standards work best when they are focused. Don’t build an 18 wheeler to drive a city block."
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tantek the rest of that post is pretty good
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aaronpk tantek: updated post!
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tantek nice
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reidab aaronpk: it might be nice to include a bit in the intro of the post about what you're specifying instead of JSON, so that people don't have to go read the specs to find out that it's form-encoding
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aaronpk that isn't really the point of the article
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tantek reidab - most of the time we're using HTML+microformats instead of JSON
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reidab that's true
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aaronpk i don't want the article to be "form-encoding is awesome"
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reidab no, that's definitely not the point
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tantek it's more a debunking of JSON-zealotry
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aaronpk right
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emmak aaronpk: have a lot of people asked you to include JSON in the indieauth and micropub specs? i was a bit surprised when i read your article
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aaronpk mostly in micropub
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reidab I was thinking from the POV of a user trying to figure out where to draw the line between stable and unstable web technologies. Some things, like HTML attributes and the HTTP spec have a much different kind of staying power than XML or JSON.
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reidab but I see the argument for keeping it focused on puncturing the "JSON will solve everything" bubble
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emmak were there technical arguments in favor, or was it more along the lines of "JSON is a standard, we should use it"?
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aaronpk some of both
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tantek emmak more like cargo cult. everybody is using JSON, why aren't you?
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aaronpk there was some talk of how form-encoding is less efficient than JSON for nested data structures since you have to repeat key names all the time
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tantek lol said by someone who's actually profiled their entire user-flow. not.
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aaronpk :)
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tantek same people that say "but that's so hard to parse. waaaaaaah"
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tantek who typically handwave UI/UX
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tantek which is the actual hard problem
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aaronpk i should be like "get rid of your google analytics tracking cookies and then we can talk"
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tantek oh I do that for them. NoScript FTW.
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Loqi it is probable
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aaronpk if you're tlaking about the difference of 100-200 bytes per request, you're adding a lot more than that with all the tracking cookies
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@phoenix2life RT @kevinmarks: “All successful standards are as simple as possible, not as hard as possible.” http://adambosworth.net/2009/10/29/talking-to-dc/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/561305524327546881)
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gRegor` WordPress page search is annoying. This template turns off the wp admin bar so I don't have a shortcut to the 'edit' link and can't easily find it via the search.
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gRegor` WP stores the page slug, so why can't I just enter the slug and have it come up?
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iangreenleaf How are you folks handling Google chat with XMPP server federation gone? Just sucking it up and using your Gmail accounts?
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iangreenleaf I just posted this question to StackExchange (http://serverfault.com/questions/663863/how-to-bounce-or-proxy-xmpp-accounts) and then realized that I should check in here, since if anyone else is bothered by the same things, it'd be you all.
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