#indiewebcamp 2015-01-31

2015-01-31 UTC
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@kevinmarks “any sufficiently populous online community is indistinguishable from Livejournal.” @j_zimms http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/30/social-networks-twitter-facebook-popular-problem #indieweb cc @bradfitz (twitter.com/_/status/561322687331438593)
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KevinMarks I think there's an element of truth to this, but it's also the growth of "engagement" goals for advertisers also makes them decay
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GWG Good evening
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tantek KevinMarks: they mean online *silo*
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GWG I'm trying to decide what project to work on next.
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GWG Waiting on sorting things out with Pfefferle on domain whitelisting. Maybe back to starter theme.
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GWG Hi, snarfed
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snarfed hi GWG!
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GWG Up to, what are you?
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/351
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GWG Im trying to decide what to do this weekend day
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tantek GWG - how's your itches list?
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tantek no longer itching?
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GWG Tantek, I jump around a lot
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tantek that's cool - just seeing if it needs any re-ordering
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tantek putting top itches at the top etc.
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GWG I'm trying to decide if I should go back to my starter theme, merge teo competing syndication plugins, or something else on my list
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tantek what's the end user feature you want the most on your personal site?
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tantek a feature you can use
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tantek to do something new that you can't do today
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GWG Well, I want to improve POSSE. But I don't want to write API code.
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GWG I want to make posting easier, but I have plumbing to improve to get there.
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GWG Last weekend I did a lot of plumbing improvements that didn't benefit me except for moving me closer to getting into the Wordpress.org repository.
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GWG Getting into the repository will net my site little, but would help others
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GWG I suppose it might get contributers
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GWG Also, cleaning up my code is never a bad thing
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tantek except you can spend endless time cleaning code and never shipping anything useful
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tantek so yes, cleaning up code can be a bad thing
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tantek because you only have so much time
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GWG A lot of it last weekend was learning about Grunt snd how it can automate certain functions for me.
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GWG But, you are right.
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GWG Sometimes I think I need to find a mentor for ny coding
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GWG Someone familiar with the Wordpress stuff
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GWG Either way, there is one thing really bothering me.
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GWG Maybe I should fix that.
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GWG It just doesn't add any features
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bret GWG: if you are interested in grunt, check out http://blog.keithcirkel.co.uk/how-to-use-npm-as-a-build-tool/
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bret there are a lot of specific tools that can just be chained together and run against folders/directories... no gruntfile wrangling required!
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bret also, obligatory http://nodejsreactions.tumblr.com/post/82300463325/grunt-gulp-broccoli
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GWG Grunt just had a lot of nice Wordpress plugins
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GWG I keep ending up learning about new things
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bret GWG: which grunt wordpress plugins do you like?
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GWG There was one for deploying to the Wordpress.org repository that I may use someday
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GWG Either way, I was going to focus on coding thibgs.
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GWG Im mostly using it for compiling SASS, minifying, concatenation, etc. Clerical
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bret rgr
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GWG Bret, I don't think I have enough of a project to need extensive task management
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bret i should hope not ;)
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bret that wouldn't be fun
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Loqi yea
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bret Hey look who needs a rewrite Loqi
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Loqi yeah!
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bret XD
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gRegor` iangreenleaf: I'm just sucking it up and using Hangouts for now. In practice, the most federation I did was with AIM accounts, not other XMPP servers.
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@pierreozoux @thibnton et aussi quelle serait la différence entre seenthis et l'#indieweb selon ta perspective? (twitter.com/_/status/561345440571211776)
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martin.atkins.me.uk edited /ActivityStreams (+1036) "Some notes on activity streams clients." (view diff)
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martin.atkins.me.uk edited /camlistore (+379) "Note about copyright ownership" (view diff)
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martin.atkins.me.uk created /User:Martin.atkins.me.uk (+731) "I guess I should claim my name" (view diff)
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GWG I'll miss XMPP when it fully dies
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martin.atkins.me.uk edited /OpenID (+154) "/* Shutdowns */" (view diff)
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martin.atkins.me.uk edited /OpenID (+109) "/* Shutdowns */" (view diff)
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martin.atkins.me.uk edited /OpenID (+1) "/* Shutdowns */" (view diff)
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aaronpk if someone else puts my article on hackernews, should i add a syndication url to my post?
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twisted_____ yep
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aaronpk i agree, especially since my header for it is "this post elsewhere" rather than "also posted on"
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/22/1/why-not-json
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Loqi [mention] David Wiley posted 'Moving to Known 1 min read I've moved my personal website over to run on the Known platform....' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/syndication-models (http://www.davidwiley.org/2015/moving-to-known)
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@kevinmarks Facebook, Twitter, Google? No, @StevenLevy meant a different big 3 http://www.newsweek.com/dead-men-walking-176866 plus ça change… #indieweb https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/561410850180046849/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/561410850180046849)
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@loicmathaud @chibani http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention ;) (twitter.com/_/status/561435963575250944)
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@raretrack Really enjoyed this inspiratonal talk by @caseorganic about the Rise Of The #IndieWeb #ownyourdata https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/561451275578249216)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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ben_thatmust woah, aaronpk, interesting webmentions on your json post
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millette first, there was spam... and not too warm on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8975326 either
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Loqi [mention] Rob Fairhead posted 'IndieWebCamp #indieweb #ownyourdata #posse' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (http://raretrack.withknown.com/2015/untitled)
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raretrack /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER raretrack sexfggewxnyl
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raretrack woops, where did that space come from? sorry folks
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bnvk rknLA: you hangout in here?
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millette raretrack, the channel is publicly logged - hope you don'T use that password elsewhere.
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millette http://bash.org/?244321 - don't get caught ;-)
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raretrack thanks millette, i realised my mistake as soon I did it - I am an idiot! No, it's a onetime random pw generated by LastPass
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millette great!
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@channyun RT @aaronpk: Huge thanks to @channyun for translating a bunch of #indiewebcamp wiki pages to Korean! http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-ko http://t.co/Ve… (twitter.com/_/status/561555875588886528)
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aaronpk aw man why is my comment presentation library so screwy?
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@gentusmaximus Considering implementing the indie web http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/561558785836482560)
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Loqi [bridgy] Channy Yun(윤석찬) retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-ko (https://twitter.com/channyun/status/561555875588886528)
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Loqi [bridgy] Channy Yun(윤석찬) retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles-ko (https://twitter.com/channyun/status/561555875588886528)
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Loqi [bridgy] Eden Will RSVPed no to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (https://www.facebook.com/387249418101711#10205727594129056)
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Loqi [bridgy] Outsider favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-ko (https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/559448141527650304)
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Loqi [bridgy] Outsider favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles-ko (https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/559448141527650304)
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@dkmj RT @kevinmarks: “All successful standards are as simple as possible, not as hard as possible.” http://adambosworth.net/2009/10/29/talking-to-dc/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/561565807462060033)
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ben_thatmust bridgy is being a jerk to me
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kylewm ben_thatmust: what's it doing?
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ben_thatmust https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1422723418&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyUgsSDVB1Ymxpc2hlZFBhZ2UiK2h0dHBzOi8vYmVuLnRoYXRtdXN0YmUubWUvbm90ZS8yMDE1LzEvMzEvMS8MCxIHUHVibGlzaBiAgICAgLmECgw
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ben_thatmust HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden
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snarfed ben_thatmust: yeah, i'm seeing those 403s. sorry :(
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ben_thatmust i disabled/reenabled .. nothing
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snarfed twitter occasionally 403s api write requests. i don't know why
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ben_thatmust weird
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snarfed hate to say it, but try re-signing up (including for publish), sometimes fixes it
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ben_thatmust displayName for the object is the full body... wonder if thats an issue?
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aaronpk twitter will reject the request if the body is >140 chars
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snarfed huh, interesting. could be
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snarfed aaronpk: do you know if it 403s specifically?
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ben_thatmust hmm, i can try adding a title to it and see if that changes things
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aaronpk https://dev.twitter.com/rest/reference/post/statuses/update
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aaronpk "Any attempt that would result in duplication will be blocked, resulting in a 403 error."
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kylewm hmm, it's trying to publish Hey #indieweb, the coming storm of webmention Spam may not be far away. Those of us that have input fields to send\u2026 (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/1/31/1/)
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aaronpk "While not rate limited by the API a user is limited in the number of tweets they can create at a time." this is nice and unspecific
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kylewm which is 146 characters
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snarfed kylewm: have to recount the url length
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snarfed 23 chars instead
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snarfed i suspect the ellipsis char
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snarfed actually nm
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aaronpk yeah it's 141
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aaronpk because https://t.co
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aaronpk if you count the ellipsis as one, which is correct
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kylewm ok with … instead of \2026, it's 141 characters
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snarfed yup my math got that too
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kylewm jinx
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snarfed oh man, thanks for the debugging guys
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snarfed i shouldn't have been so quick to chalk it up to flaky twitter api
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snarfed filing now
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Loqi I agree
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aaronpk how should you report that kind of error to the user? that's hard
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snarfed hush kylewm
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snarfed :P
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snarfed aaronpk: it's already auto-ellipsizing, so it's just a bug
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aaronpk ah gotcha
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kylewm snarfed: it's the permalink regex
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kylewm it's matching the closing ) as part of the URL
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snarfed ahhhhh oh man good find
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snarfed you're already way ahead of me. any interest in tackling it?
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aaronpk matching urls in text is really hard
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snarfed yup
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aaronpk cause sometimes you do want the ) in th URL like wiki pages
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kylewm snarfed: sure i'd be happy to
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aaronpk and sometimes a URL ends in a . but sometimes the . is the end of a sentence
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snarfed in this case at least, we can cheat, since we're generatnig the parens
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aaronpk oh good that makes it easier
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snarfed thanks kylewm! (and yeah, i'm heading out in a few hrs :P)
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@dissolve333 Wtih the number of issues with syndicating my #indieweb posts to twitter, I wonder if I should even bother… (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/1/31/3/) (twitter.com/_/status/561574025843855360)
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ben_thatmust well that one worked
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@aaronpk @dissolve333 At least for now, Twitter makes a great hashtag aggregator. We need to get PuSH publishers... #indieweb http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/01/31/2/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/561574572479111168)
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snarfed aaronpk: yeah, for other use cases i've generally not included most punctuation at the end of urls
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snarfed do you know of common urls that end in periods?
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aaronpk not off the top of my head
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kylewm it's pretty interesting how twitter auto-links it... http://example.com/a_link_(with_parens) vs. (http://example.com/a_link_without)
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aaronpk but it's technically a valid URL, whereas parens should actually be url-encoded IIRC
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kylewm I feel like I see a lot of URLs that end in like %3F. (?)
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snarfed heh, overquoting somewhere
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aaronpk ? needs to be escaped in URLs
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snarfed sure, but i'd guess if it's at the end, and there's no query string, it was more likely meant to start the query and not part of the path
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aaronpk if it's at the end it's the beginning of the query string
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snarfed hence overquoting, if it's a %3F but should have been ?
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snarfed anyway, not important :P
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aaronpk oh I was assuming URLs like for FAQs where the page title includes ?
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aaronpk we have some wiki pages like that
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snarfed whoa, ah, ok
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kylewm snarfed: do you think we should be as clever with the () matching as twitter is?
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kylewm or just add special handling for appending a post permalink
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snarfed honestly i don't know
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snarfed probably not twitter-clever
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aaronpk check out tantek's autolinker code in cassis
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aaronpk he put a TON of time/research into it
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snarfed aaronpk: thanks!
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snarfed kylewm: you're looking at tweaking webutil.util._LINK_RE ?
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kylewm It's .3F that I was thinking of, not %3F.
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kylewm e.g. https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/LDP-SWAT0#Is_Tantek_interested.3F
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kylewm snarfed: yes I was
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snarfed kylewm: sgtm. i'd vote for as simple as possible…probably just never allow paren at the end
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snarfed but i defer to you since i think you've worked more on link regexes than me
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kylewm haha, well that is not something i am proud of
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Loqi rofl
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kylewm ok simple sounds good for this, since the worst case is it would overestimate the number of characters and over truncate
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snarfed sgtm
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kylewm damn why am I not surprised CASSIS handles this correct
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kylewm ly
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aaronpk :)
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Loqi [bridgy] 서영 favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-ko (https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/559448141527650304)
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Loqi [bridgy] 서영 favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles-ko (https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/559448141527650304)
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snarfed hold onto your butts, i just deployed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/351 (oauth-protect interactive bridgy publish)
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aaronpk oh isn't the . something about url encoding in fragments?
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kylewm lol at this comment in Cassis "allow one paren pair *** not sure twitter is this smart"
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snarfed hah
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bret where does cassis run as JS?
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kylewm bret: I think KevinMarks uses it in node
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bret the $ are confusing me :x
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@kevinmarks @benward that means all the cached links to the old one will fail :( (see the blank webmentions at the bottom of http://www.kevinmarks.com/twitterhatespeech.html ) (twitter.com/_/status/561599189075775488)
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@issuenow 상위태그(3시간) 1:#styt 2:#독립운동 3:#독립운동가 4:#도화선 5:#라인업간지난당 6:#여행의기술 7:#다시보기 8:#세월호 9:#썰만화 10:#손미나 11:#새해첫공연 12:#indiewebcamp .. (twitter.com/_/status/561601138965741569)
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KevinMarks bret, kylewm I'm using it clientside in noterlive: https://github.com/kevinmarks/noterlive/blob/master/web/index.html#L16
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KevinMarks just for the tweet length estimator though
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bret KevinMarks: ah cool
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kylewm this was kind of silly/fun https://github.com/kylewm/cassis-autolink-py/blob/master/cassis.py
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snarfed PSA for bridgy publish users who use the interactive web form: you'll need to shift-refresh your user page next time
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snarfed kylewm: holy crap, nice!
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kylewm my favorite part is the regex [!#&-;=?-Z_a-z~]
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kylewm ampersand through semicolon!
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aaronpk that's obscure, lol
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snarfed wow, yeah
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aaronpk and ?-Z
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aaronpk i prefer my regexes to be a little more explicit, even if that makes them longer
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kylewm aaronpk: i'm guessing you also use variable names longer than 2 or 3 characters
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aaronpk lol
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KevinMarks I may need to fork tantek's one to support the new TLDs I am amused by and he disapproves of
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millette KevinMarks, do you know https://publicsuffix.org/ ?
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millette saw TLD and this might be relevant/helpful
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tantek KevinMarks: your newsweek link from last night: "You have reached the limit of 5 free articles a month"
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tantek and removing cookies has no impact - interesting
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kylewm are they blocking by IP address??
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tantek trying Safari in private browsing
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tantek but with JS
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tantek huh - that loaded
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@Smallhand 인디웹(IndieWeb)을 아십니까? http://channy.creation.net/blog/1021 #it #feedly (twitter.com/_/status/561638014829731842)
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tantek hah "1/21/96 AT 7:00 PM" (that newsweek article)
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aaronpk b 13
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andicascadesf Do you guys hide your ip address for security purposes?
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andicascadesf I want to make sure I’m protected from space invaders and have been researching this.
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tantek wat
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GWG Space Invaders?
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kylewm andicascadesf: there are definitely a few people around who use Tor
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andicascadesf haha
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andicascadesf I just say invaders of our personal space.
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andicascadesf I just want to learn better browsing habits to be safer.
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andicascadesf @kylewm just downloaded Tor
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andicascadesf thank you!
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andicascadesf ttyl :-D
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GWG Well, they say you should assume that anything you put online is public.
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kylewm oh dang, I didn't mean to recommend Tor...
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GWG I'm not really a Tor fan
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kylewm was re-reading about Ghostery
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GWG I still miss your old design
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GWG kylewm: I used to use it for inspiration
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kylewm GWG: https://dubiousdod.org/indie/
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GWG kylewm: I have been moving in that direction. My original design was very bootstrapy
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kylewm my old design was missing whimsy :)
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GWG What is 'whimsy'?
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GWG In this case, I know the word
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kylewm Keep IndieWeb Weird
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GWG I haven't gotten to styling yet again
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GWG https://tiny.n9n.us/
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GWG I'm back to structure over style.
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