#indieweb

2015-02-02

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KartikPrabhu
oh no! lat one is wrong channle :P
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hmans
I'm having a hard time finding more specific information about u-uid in h-entry.
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hmans
I've been assuming that u-uid is supposed to remain the same even if the post itself changes (including changes to its URL), but I only see people using it alongside u-url.
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hmans
(context: deduplication of incoming webmentions)
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KartikPrabhu
hmans: u-uid might not be what you need for dedup of webmention especially is th URL changes. If the URL changes it might be better to resend a webmention from old URL which does a 403 redirect from to the new one
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hmans
KartikPrabhu, noted
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KartikPrabhu
hmans: also i think u-uid is expected to the a unique-id for the h-entry in a particular domain possibly. So I would be nice if authors respected that (like a canonica URL), but who knows!
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hmans
KartikPrabhu, ideally it would be a fully functional URL that never changes through the lifetime of a post and always redirects to the post's current canonical (in a human-readable, or SEO sense) URL.
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KartikPrabhu
yes
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hmans
This would make deduplication trivial
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KartikPrabhu
but i have no data on how most author use it
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hmans
eg. if you receive a webmention, and the source URL has a u-uid that you already know, you can HEAD the known UID to verify that the new source URL is indeed the current canonical URL of the post.
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hmans
A lot of people simply don't use it at all, it appears
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KartikPrabhu
right. it depends on how authors use u-uid and how webmention de dup is implemented
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KevinMarks_
u-uid was originally for hcard, not posts
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KevinMarks_
http://microformats.org/wiki/uid
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KevinMarks_
hm, this seems annoyingly retro: http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-god-login/
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Loqi
[bridgy] Chanhee Lee favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-ko (https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/559448141527650304)
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Loqi
[bridgy] Chanhee Lee favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles-ko (https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/559448141527650304)
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /database-antipattern (+82) "/* DBA tax */ added database software upgrade DBA tax after experiencing this with postgres" (view diff)
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@pierreozoux
@kylewm2 What is woodwind? http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Search?search=woodwind&fulltext=Search (twtr.io/vn9KHr2yh8)
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KevinMarks_
want to try http://svgur.com/
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@tistre
RT @kevinmarks: http://xkcd.com/1481/ finally catches up to where @t and I were a decade ago http://tantek.com/presentations/20040928sdforumws/semantic-xhtml.html #microformats #indieweb (twtr.io/vnQqjLTbKC)
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tantek
good morning #Indiewebcamp! here briefly until flight attendants tell us to put devices away.
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tantek
hmans - you have to do much more than URL equivalency for de-duping
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tantek
in fact, that's probably the least important
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tantek
more important: de-duping with POSSE copies
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tantek
hmans - see what is deduplication
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Loqi
Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site https://indiewebcamp.com/deduplication
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tantek
KevinMarks: meh, seems like another apologism article for both legacy email login, and NASCAR. not an interesting blog post.
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tantek
KevinMarks: .media you bought for your son right?
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tantek
and you seriously got "mixes.house"? wow
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tantek
what about club link and international? what did you get with those?
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tantek
ok off for now!
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Loqi
[bridgy] KyleWm replied '@pierreozoux it's a small feed reader I'm working on github.com/kylewm/woodwind' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:Search?search=woodwind&fulltext=Search (https://twitter.com/kylewm2/status/562273273170239488)
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kylewm
python's package index stats are really wonky. how i wish 800 people had downloaded Flask-Micropub this month, but I just don't buy it
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aaronpk
probably lots of bots crawling the package library
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aaronpk
i've seen a bunch of twitter bots tweet out new packages
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@dkreuz
#WSGI the functional way is just fun. Implemented a simple #webmention endpoint. #python #indieweb (twtr.io/vnocCQuZxM)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Main_Page (-31) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /events/next-hwc (-31) "r" (view diff)
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@sethgoldstein
@kevinmarks i have a podcast called The Interview Show on @Phillytech_org. I'd love to interview you about the IndieWeb and what you're up 2 (twtr.io/vnqdrV8wxb)
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tantek
KevinMarks - awesome: http://www.xkcd.com/1481
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tantek
that needs to be added to /microformats
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gRegor`
Haha
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gRegor`
"ACCESS LIMITS: Clients may maintain connections to the server for no more than 86,400 seconds per day. If you need additional time, you may contact IERS to file a request for up to one additional second."
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millette
speaking of interviews, http://redecentralize.org/interviews/ would be nice
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millette
gRegor`, that extra second can come in handy once every few years, don't underestimate it!
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tantek
When is the next hwc?
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gRegor`
February 11th ;)
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tantek
^^^ aaronpk, Loqi-task: "when is" = same page finding algorithm as "what is", then look for "dt-start" and "p-name" inside the first "h-event" on the page, and if found (optional also look for "p-location") return "p-name is dt-start at p-location. URL-following-wiki-redirects"
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aaronpk
hah nice
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tantek
then people could ask things like:
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millette
allô renoir :-)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Loqi (+175) "/* Ideas */ when is the next HWC" (view diff)
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tantek
when is the next indiewebcamp?
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gregorlove.com
edited /Loqi (+38) "/* Ideas */ X" (view diff)
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tantek
aaronpk, and related Loqi-task: "where is" = "when is" except "p-location" required not optional, and text returned slightly different to reflect different focus: "p-name is at p-location, dt-start. page-URL-following-wiki-redirects"
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Loqi
grins profusely
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tantek
^^^ he wants the new capabilities.
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millette
renoirb, perhaps you'd be interested in https://github.com/redecentralize/swarm/wiki/Montreal,-Canada ?
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renoirb_
sorry, re-configuring stuff
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tantek.com
edited /microformats (+246) "xkcd 1481" (view diff)
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@raretrack
RT @kevinmarks: http://xkcd.com/1481/ finally catches up to where @t and I were a decade ago http://tantek.com/presentations/20040928sdforumws/semantic-xhtml.html #microformats #indieweb (twtr.io/vnsLujHLmy)
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tantek
KevinMarks, amazing: http://imgur.com/eWjDz re: images vs. HTML text in posts on silos
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Loqi
[mention] http://www.epischel.de/wordpress/2015/02/dezentrales-netz/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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KevinMarks
You hadn't seen that before? Christopher made it from my post
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KevinMarks
http://epeus.blogspot.com/2011/12/facebook-twitter-and-google-plus-shun.html
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@raretrack
Another step towards controlling my own data on the #indieweb ; re-licenced my photos on #Flickr to be #AllRightsReserved #ownyourdata (twtr.io/vnt8GSaxeC)
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KevinMarks
He said "good point but the people who you need to reach look at images"
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raretrack
Didn't realise my tagged tweets turned up here automatically. Cool!
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aaronpk
heh yeah that was part of that discussion ;)
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sandro
Is the a de-facto standard for what image from a page is used to grab attention when just a link-to-html is provided? If that were well known, and carefully managed, that could help.
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millette
sandro, facebook's opengraph <meta property="og:image" content="..." />
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aaronpk
the first u-image in the h-entry
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aaronpk
u-photo*
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sandro
Have we seen a nice tool to make that image be a nice graphic of the key bit of the page, eg for a blog post? That seems not-too-hard.
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kylewm
aaronpk: sandro: u-featured has also been proposed http://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview#u-featured
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aaronpk
ah yeah
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aaronpk
if thet author wants to make it explicit
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kylewm
waht's a good place on the wiki to collect suggestions like "hey you should do an interview with redecentralize.org or XYZ podcast?"
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gRegor`
'you' being any indieweb person?
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kylewm
yep
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gRegor`
/interview_requests maybe, but that's pretty specific.
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gRegor`
/media_requests? Sounds pretty formal
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kylewm
\/outreach?
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gRegor`
That sounds good
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tantek
welcome sandro!
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ben_thatmust
hey guys
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sandro
waves to tantek from meeting
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sandro
hopes tantek saw email from evan and can join socweb prep meeting before wg meeting tomorrow
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tantek
oh no I didn't - thanks for the heads-up
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tantek
chairs call at 9 then?
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sandro
9 pacific time, yes
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tantek
sandro - aside: not sure you saw but I posted SWAT0 in lossless retweetable tweet summary form, POSSE copy even, including permalinkcitation: https://twitter.com/t/status/560921112767242241
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@t
SWAT0 A posts+tags mobile photo of B B photo notified C(follows A) sees it; replies A&B comment notified Prev: http://tantek.com/2015/029/t1/swat0-posts-tags-mobile-photo-comment (twtr.io/ve_m7eC2qg)
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tantek
(originally looks better than IRC summary, since it includes key line-breaks :) )
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tantek
http://tantek.com/2015/029/t1/swat0-posts-tags-mobile-photo-comment
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tantek
wonders when Social Web WG comms will be posted on the social web.
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millette
we should take that up with the co-chairs
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Loqi
definitely
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tantek.com
created /email-list (+24) "r" (view diff)
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tantek
millette - so true. Here's my contribution so far: http://indiewebcamp.com/email_list#POSSE_to_an_email_list
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aaronpk
what is the social web?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "social web" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=social+web
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tantek
touché
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tantek
oh wait I have a citation for that
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tantek
here you go: http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2014-09-23#t1411490774353 :D
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millette
"URL you can curl" - does that exclude client js sites?
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aaronpk
yes
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kylewm.com
created /outreach (+581) "stub a page with redecentralize suggestion" (view diff)
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bret
yes... unless the single page application builds in a way to deliver the data in a way that curl can handle
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bret
(but mostly unreliable)
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kylewm
speaking of "After twenty years of service I'm pleased to announce a complete rewrite of wiki as a single page application with a distributed database which will last us for at least 20 years, maybe 200. " http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiWikiSystemNotice
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millette
kylewm, thanks for the edit
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millette
single page app = client js, unfortunately
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aaronpk
wait what... ward is moving the whole c2.com wiki to fedwiki?
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kylewm
"The best parts will migrate into the federated wiki and the rest frozen or discarded."
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kylewm
c2.fed.wiki.org/view/migrating-wiki
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kylewm
bonkers right?
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millette
aaronpk, accoring the front page, yes http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FrontPage "Please read WikiWikiSystemNotice for the latest information regarding the operation of this site."
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tantek
millette you can pretty much treat client js sites as if they don't exist, they're typically gone/broken in < 1 yr.
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aaronpk
wow
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millette
shattering :-(
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tantek
and when client js sites disappear - they're gone gone gone - no meaningful archive.org presence, because there's no server for all that eager / lazy XHR to go get anything from, no database to query, etc.
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tantek
"We've recently endured abuse that has moved our conversion date forward" <-- WTF? what was the abuse? anyone know?
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bret
tantek: not sure, but maybe the hacker news comments?
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bret
made it to front page recently
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tantek.com
created /social_web (+706) "stub with dfn, related dfn, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /Federated_Social_Web (+17) "/* See Also */ social web" (view diff)
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tantek
what is the social web?
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Loqi
The social web refers to the subset of the web that has social content, that is, content, like posts, which has obvious visible authorship (even if pseudonymous), and mentions other people or other social web content, via URL reference, not just name https://indiewebcamp.com/social_web
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bret
tantek: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8983158
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tantek
bret, ouch: " The panels popping up seemingly infinitely into the right side of the screen (every click makes a new panel) is unfamiliar and doesn't seem to provide a compelling value over giving the content a valuable piece of center page real estate. It feels like it is too proud of its cleverness, and that detracts from its value."
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aaronpk
heh "Javascript pages are the 'Flash site' of the 2010s and I can't wait until it's similarly consigned to its rightful place in the dustbin of history."
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tantek
(kinda have to agree)
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tantek
aaronpk wow that's a great quote
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tantek
and this is the I told you so: "The new wiki is doomed by design, because content can not be found by Google or any other search engine. And a wiki where the content can not be found is for the trashcan."
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Loqi
[mention] http://blog.offeryour.com/?p=33081 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/API (pingback)
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millette
returns to his dhtml app
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kylewm
millette++
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Loqi
millette has 3 karma
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millette
I split my website in two: admin is full javascript (and a wiki), but publishing is plain html (sits in couchdb)
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@hackernewsfire
API http://indiewebcamp.com/API (twtr.io/vnze5egYeV)
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aaronpk
admin stuff as a js app is totally fine, cause it's actually an app...
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aaronpk
and it doesn't need permalinks, etc
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millette
aaronpk, exactly my thought
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@dkreuz
@srhnsn GitHub is a silo. I will publish it on my site. Maybe I will #POSSE it to GitHub later ;) #yoyod #indieweb (twtr.io/vo1p2yhBQp)
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gRegor`
What is DHTML?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "DHTML" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=DHTML
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aaronpk
I remember debating whether I should learn DHTML
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tantek
lolol
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tantek
" Holy SEO Fail Batman... Google only returning ~ 19 pages ( site:c2.fed.wiki.org * ) vs. 80K from c2.com" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8984485
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gRegor`
Related: http://dhtmlconf.com/
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aaronpk
omg that thread is getting ridiculously long
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gRegor`
jennschiffer++
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Loqi
jennschiffer has 1 karma
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gregorlove.com
created /DHTML (+68) "stub" (view diff)
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gRegor`
what is DHTML?
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Loqi
DHTML is just JavaScript and HTML https://indiewebcamp.com/DHTML
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gRegor`
:)
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tantek
and the DOM
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aaronpk
welcome pdxleif!
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aaronpk
what are comments?
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Loqi
A comment is a kind of post that is in reply to some other post, that makes little or no sense without reading or at least knowing the context of the source post https://indiewebcamp.com/comments
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tantek.com
edited /DHTML (+147) "expand dfn" (view diff)
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@erikpischel
Thema "Dezentrales #Netz " #hosting #indieweb http://www.epischel.de/wordpress/2015/02/dezentrales-netz/ : https://indiewebcamp.com/ http://schmalenstroer.net/blog/2015/01/das-dezentrale-netz-ein-zwischenbericht/ (twtr.io/vo5TnvTjvU)
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bigbluehat
millette++ for using CouchDB ^_^
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Loqi
millette has 4 karma
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Loqi
[bridgy] Мари Мари +1ed a post http://indiewebcamp.com/2013 (https://plus.google.com/109182513536739786206/posts/8s4f5ms8etK)
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aaronpk
well that's an odd +1
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aaronpk
that post is 2 years old
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fiatjaf
millette, do you use CouchDB for what?
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millette
because someone has to!
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bigbluehat
awecomone! ;)
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millette
I use it to build/host websites mostly,
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bigbluehat
it's good for other stuff to...like data
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millette
and recently starting using pouchdb too to make offline stuff.
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bigbluehat
couple it with pouchdb.com and you might just change how you build apps
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bigbluehat
there yah go :)
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millette
bigbluehat, exactly, http://robin.millette.info/ is my public site (plain html) and http://admin.robin.millette.info/ is backed by pouchdb, mostly js client stuff, and it works offline too.
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bigbluehat
super nice!
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bigbluehat
I'm working on a PouchDB + CouchDB-based CMS (rewrite) at http://github.com/bigbluehat/blueink
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bigbluehat
if you're bored ;)
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millette
I haven't put much indieweb stuff into it yet, but that's my first priority now.
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millette
oh, and releasing my sources, too.
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bigbluehat
cool stuff!
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millette
bigbluehat++ for blueink - great ideas in there :-)
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Loqi
bigbluehat has 2 karma
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bigbluehat
tnx! ^_^
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bigbluehat
lots more en route
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bigbluehat
mostly around editing and page management
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bigbluehat
if you want to see what I'm porting, check out http://demo.blueinkcms.com/
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millette
we should take this to #indiechat (offtopic)
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bigbluehat
works for me
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millette
unless blueink is indiewebbified ;-)
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Loqi
agreed.
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kylewm
on topic, IMO
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fiatjaf
that is awesome.
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GWG
I'm thinking of creating post type for snow
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GWG
There will be many snow type posts
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tantek
aaronpk, in addition to "created" and "edited" wiki pages metrics (top 10 per week), perhaps consider the "prompted"
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aaronpk
ha!
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tantek
as in, when someone asks "what is …" which is then followed within 24hrs by the creation of that wiki page
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tantek
that someone should get credit for "prompting"
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tantek
top 10 prompters per week would be hilarious
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tantek
if you self-prompt, you only get credit for the creating, not the prompting
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tantek
go
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aaronpk
i'm gonna have to parse irc logs to figure that out huh
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tantek
hmm does referer help?
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aaronpk
https://github.com/indieweb/this-week/issues/2
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aaronpk
i don't get referer in the wiki edit history
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tantek
what is stringly typed?
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aaronpk
luckily the entire IRC log for the week can be parsed with only 7 http requests
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "stringly typed" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=stringly+typed
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tantek
It looks like we don't have a page for "stringly typed" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=stringly+typed&utm_prompter=tantek
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tantek
>:D utm_prompter
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aaronpk
oh jeez
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aaronpk
https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=stringly+typed&summary=%28prompted+by+tantek%29
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aaronpk
so if people don't cheat and don't remove the summary it would show up in the wiki edit
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tantek
could even include a permalink to the "what is" in the logs
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aaronpk
!!
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aaronpk
oh crap except Loqi doesn't know what the permalink is at that point
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aaronpk
maybe he does... let me check
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tantek
prompted+by+tantek[indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-02#…]
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tantek
permalink of the "what is.." statement
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tantek
not Loqi's prompting (It looks like)
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Loqi
who, me?
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tantek
:D
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aaronpk
oh hey he does know the permalink because it's based off of the timestamp
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aaronpk
what is stringly typed?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "stringly typed" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=stringly+typed&summary=%28prompted+by+aaronpk+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-02/line/1422915433643%29
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kylewm
what is tanteking?
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Loqi
Tantek-ing is a method of encouraging people to contribute to the wiki by indirectly prompting the person who first mentioned the term to create a short wiki dfn page for it https://indiewebcamp.com/tanteking
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aaronpk
well at the very least now new wiki pages from IRC prompts will link back to the IRC convo!
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tantek
as long as the trailing ")" is not autolinked, or indiewebcamp's IRC logs know to ignore a trailing paren and redirect
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tantek
(prompted by aaronpk https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-02/line/1422915433643)
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aaronpk
well the whole thing is url encoded in the irc logs
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aaronpk
it's the wiki that has to know not to autolink the )
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aaronpk
in recentchanges
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kylewm
do the logs use cassis to autolink?
#
aaronpk
i dont' remember
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#
@adamprocter
Can anyone join gophers slack?making inline comment thing on a #golang #markdown static blog possibly with mysql/webmentions… looking 4 help (twtr.io/voF9F8_DyQ)
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#
KevinMarks_
GWG++ for snowclone joke
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Loqi
GWG has 62 karma
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#
GWG
It is seriously miserable out there
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aaronpk
nice and sunny in pdx :)
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KevinMarks_
there are precedents for weather reporting posst - usually by hashtag
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KevinMarks_
eg #uksnow
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KevinMarks_
collated at http://uksnowmap.com/
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GWG
KevinMarks_: As I mentioned yesterday, no microformat for it
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KevinMarks_
well, first gather evidence
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GWG
http://indiewebcamp.com/weather
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GWG
I'm working on it
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GWG
I'm new at that.
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KevinMarks_
I was about to say wunderground...
#
GWG
But my internet connected thermometer will arrive in 2-13 days
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GWG
And it supports upload to wunderground, among other things
#
GWG
But that is a weather silo of sorts
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GWG
Admittedly, you derive value in the sense that they add forecast and crowd source, but that could also be indiewebbed
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kevinmarks.com
edited /weather (+423) "/* Brainstorming */ add #uksnow" (view diff)
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GWG
Be right back. Must shovel
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GWG
If I'm not back soon, send out a search party
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KevinMarks_
note that even the Uk met office uses #uksnow: https://twitter.com/metoffice
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tallpaul
weather data collection is kinda big in the ham radio/packet scene
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tallpaul
and it gets gated to the internet from there
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KevinMarks_
got examples of publishing it?
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tallpaul
not off the top of my head
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kevinmarks.com
edited /weather (+115) "/* silo examples */" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com
edited /weather (-268) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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GWG
Okay.
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GWG
More to come
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benwerd
Is anyone proposing any IndieWeb sessions at OSCON this year?
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GWG
I need a push.
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KevinMarks_
seems liek a good idea
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KevinMarks_
why is making a grid of images still such a pain?
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GWG
I don't know. What are you trying to do?
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KevinMarks_
http://svgur.com/ homepage I want a grid of recent uploads
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GWG
Ok
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Loqi
gives KevinMarks_ a grid of recent uploads
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KevinMarks_
that uses square grid, fits images within, and varies the # of grid rows depending on screen size
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KevinMarks_
currently cheating with 15em image width
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KevinMarks_
I think I'm going to have to do responsive breaks to make them actually subdivisions of screen width
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GWG
I don't quite get responsive design
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benwerd
KevinMarks_: percentage widths with media queries that change the percentage based on window resolution? (Maybe?)
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benwerd
But then you can't guarantee square
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KevinMarks_
I can have breakpoints for 1 - n images
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KevinMarks_
hm,I need to upload some very tall svg's don't
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millette
KevinMarks_, perhaps http://salvattore.com/
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kylewm
KevinMarks_: does svgur convert to png?
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millette
I tend to do everything with bootstrap nowadays, http://getbootstrap.com/components/#thumbnails works quite well.
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GWG
I am trying to do without bootstrap
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KevinMarks_
not quite yet kylewm
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KevinMarks_
thats aprt of the plan, and I have some client-side ways to do it
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KevinMarks_
ah, yes, that EMpire sate image broke my grid: http://svgur.com/
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kylewm
would someone with micropub support try logging into reader.kylewm.com?
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kylewm
when I try it with my withknown account, I get an empty response from the token endpoint :(
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#
GWG
Anyone have advice, speaking of KevinMarks_ problem, on a good responsive methodology that isn't bootstrap?
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kylewm
GWG: you just mean a grid that isn't bootstrap?
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kylewm
I like this one personally http://www.responsivegridsystem.com/
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GWG
Basically yes
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GWG
Trying to learn about my options
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millette
GWG, http://foundation.zurb.com/ is popular, yahoo's got http://purecss.io/grids/ and I learned with http://susy.oddbird.net/
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millette
next I want to give http://salvattore.com/ a spin
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kylewm
Foundation is basically just as big as Bootstrap right?
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millette
kylewm, I think, so called frameworks
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GWG
I'm looking for small
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kylewm
getskeleton.com is sort of in between
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kylewm
grid + basic styling
#
GWG
I don't want any styling
#
millette
susy and salvattore
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GWG
The Responsive Grid looks simple enough
#
tantek
GWG, now there's an interesting challenge for the indieweb-set - a small / minimal style "framework" or at least starter style shet..
#
aaronpk
kylewm: I got this logging in too: "Warning: bad response from token endpoint:"
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tantek
s/shet/sheet
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: GWG, now there's an interesting challenge for the indieweb-set - a small / minimal style "framework" or at least starter style sheet..
#
GWG
tantek: What that might include is a good question.
#
tantek
GWG, I'll let you know when I've built something I think deserves to be put forth for that challenge.
#
GWG
tantek: You know I am a follower of your work.
#
kylewm
aaronpk, I got from tokens.indieauth.com -- Message: Undefined index: state
#
kylewm
File: /web/sites/tokens.indieauth.com/controllers/controller.php
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kylewm
Line: 43
#
tantek
GWG, well so far all I have is a fairly decent undohtml.css (evolved over the many years) http://tantek.com/2015/undohtml.css
#
aaronpk
oh crap
#
aaronpk
well if you include a state param that should go away
#
kylewm
is that a clue to what i am missing?
#
Loqi
lolz
#
aaronpk
you should include a state regardless, but tokens.indieauth.com shuold not be showing that error if you don't include it
#
Loqi
I agree
#
tantek
GWG, and a very much *in progress" elemental foundation: http://tantek.com/2015/elementica.css
#
GWG
How would something work for Indieweb though, I wonder
#
tantek
GWG, well I also have a "simple.css" that builds on those two, but it's too in progress to be worth anyone else trying to build on
#
tantek
mixing use of classic microformats and microformtas2 classes for styling, and other classes
#
tantek
but it would likely mostly confuse / waste anyone's time
#
tantek
GWG, you're welcome to use undohtml.css and elementica.css and ask any questions about them.
#
millette
tantek, undohtml is like http://necolas.github.io/normalize.css/ right?
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pwcc
Back in the day I build http://minimumpage.com/ for styles - no grid tho.
#
pwcc
Are you a sass user GWG?
#
tantek
millette - funny you should ask it that way ;) http://tantek.com/log/2004/09.html#d06t2354
#
tantek
millette - I think normalize has a different (more comprehensive) goal
#
millette
ah :-) and normalize comes after reset.css
#
tantek
millette: right, and if you scroll down to the comments on that post you'll see a reply from Eric Meyer
#
aaronpk
kylewm: i fixed the token endpoint
#
aaronpk
now I get "Login error: authorization failed. invalid_request: The 'state' parameter did not match"
#
kylewm
oops
#
aaronpk
that also might be my fault though
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kylewm
try again?
#
kylewm
no it was my fault
#
aaronpk
i never tested this with a blank state
#
aaronpk
yay it worked
#
aaronpk
whoa fancy
#
GWG
pwcc: I am now
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kylewm
i tried to include "state=" instead of just not having it at all
#
kylewm
and that gave the "did not match" error, so i dunno
#
kylewm
thank you for testing it!
#
pwcc
GWG: A mate built this as a light-weight grid. Removes the need for a tonne of unused classes https://github.com/AaronRutley/minimal-grid
#
aaronpk
kylewm: not sure if kylewm.com posts aren't pulled in yet or if tantek just posts a ton
#
kylewm
the missing state parameter seems to be what was confusing Known too
#
tantek
oops wat
#
aaronpk
well to be fair, the reader is rendering each "like" individually
#
aaronpk
undoing all the fancy clustering tantek did
#
kylewm
haha
#
aaronpk
which means it parsed correctly
#
kylewm
you're not seeing posts from me?
#
aaronpk
so there's that
#
aaronpk
oh now theyre there!
#
kylewm
oh yeah you have to refresh if it's a new feed
#
kylewm
tantek.com would've had posts already since i subscribe to him :)
#
aaronpk
ah!
#
aaronpk
i was impressed how quickly those appeared
#
aaronpk
also wow at all the indie conversations happening right now not on twitter
#
aaronpk
this is great
#
tantek
the clustering can be done purely by the semantics from the microformats
#
aaronpk
wow using a reader, even this rudimentary (no offense) is making my reader wish list grow quickly
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#
aaronpk
kylewm: can you set your client_id to "reader.kylewm.com" for indieauth, and then add x-h-app markup to your reader logged-out home page?
#
kylewm
aaronpk: none taken, the readme calls it "A minimum viable stream-style feed reader."
#
kylewm
yeah totally
#
aaronpk
kylewm: i tried using the "reply" form, it did actualy create a post on my site, but the reader said there was an error
#
aaronpk
"Failure"
#
kylewm
it returns success if the endpoint replies with 200
#
kylewm
should it i bet you return 201 huh
#
kylewm
s/should it//
#
Loqi
kylewm meant to say:  i bet you return 201 huh
#
aaronpk
yeah 201 and a Location header http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Create
#
aaronpk
once you add the client_id as your app's URL, my site should credit posts from the reader as "posted via reader.kylewm.com"
#
aaronpk
also indieauth.com will show your app name and icon on the auth screen
#
kylewm
holla
#
tantek
in having quickly skimmed https://github.com/necolas/normalize.css/blob/master/normalize.css I must say - it doesn't suck, and there's plenty of good ideas in there.
#
aaronpk
rwar I wanna start building my reader
#
GWG
tantek: That is what I'm using now
#
tantek
GWG, great, then stick with it if it's working for you.
#
aaronpk
man this reader stuff is exciting! it's finally closing the loop on this whole thing
#
tantek
aaronpk - yes indeed
#
tantek
what is edit?
#
Loqi
An edit (AKA diff, change) is a special type of reply that indicates a set of suggested changes to the post it is replying to. A collection of (presumably related) suggested edits in open source is often called a patch or pull request https://indiewebcamp.com/edit
#
tantek
views source on https://kylewm.com/2015/02/edit-of-a-href-http-tantek-com-2015-033-t1-disable
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tantek
class="u-edit-of" - seems like a reasonable start
#
aaronpk
doesn't view source anymore, just views the mf2-parsed result in json
#
aaronpk
http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkylewm.com%2F2015%2F02%2Fedit-of-a-href-http-tantek-com-2015-033-t1-disable
#
pwcc
+1 normalize.css, I find it much easier than reset+base. Perhaps it needs an opinionated add-on for some things but it's a good start.
#
GWG
pwcc: normalize just went standard for _s.
#
tantek
aaronpk - I view the source to see patterns and semantics beyond the explicit microformats
#
tantek
GWG what is _s ?
#
aaronpk
I just assume everyone is authoring perfect microformats ;)
#
tantek
but microformats are deliberately limited and minimal
#
tantek
so I look for what people are trying to express beyond them
#
tantek
aaronpk, e.g. inside class="e-diff"
#
GWG
Underscores.me
#
tantek
class="codehilite" ?
#
tantek
and gu gd gi
#
tantek
gd - delete, gi - insert
#
tantek
some sort of range syntax? <span class="gu">@@ -5,7 +5,7 @@</span>
#
tantek
the challenge here is that ideally I should be able to say "approve" (or whatever one does to "moderate") edit posts and have them automaticaly update my post!
#
tantek
which requires parseability of the edits
#
tantek
accepting an edit post should be no harder than (hopefully easier than) accepting a pull request
#
aaronpk
that is a pretty well-standardized diff format, you probably even have a tool on your server and laptop that can parser it
#
kylewm
aaronpk: does the client_id need to have http:// ?
#
aaronpk
s/parser/parse
#
Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: that is a pretty well-standardized diff format, you probably even have a tool on your server and laptop that can parse it
#
tantek
aaronpk - yet it's pretty ugly compared to the media wiki diff
#
tantek
it's a diff presentation that only developers enjoy, if that
#
aaronpk
kylewm: yes it should
#
aaronpk
i guess I don't really see the benefit of trying to recreate a diff format right now
#
kylewm
i need a new logo, but it looks ok for now
#
kylewm
i mean -- the markup seems to be working
#
kylewm
the logo looks terrible :)
#
aaronpk
kylewm: you need a logout link so I can try again
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tantek
aaronpk - not talking about format - that's the problem
#
tantek
aaronpk - I'm talking about diff presentation
#
tantek
what an edit post *looks like*
#
kylewm
aaronpk: true, for now you can use /login to log in again
#
aaronpk
I find github's presentation to be pretty much ideal
#
tantek
and besides that "pretty well-standardized diff format" only really works on plain text (or the code view of markup)
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#
tantek
aaronpk - nah, even github's is noisy
#
aaronpk
really? this seems pretty clean to me http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/github-diff-20150202-194239.png
#
tantek
aaronpk it doesn't to me because the lines look duplicated
#
tantek
especially if you're red/green colorblind
#
tantek
you can trivially do better
#
tantek
e.g. no duplicate text
#
tantek
just green higlight what's added
#
tantek
presto - shorter, less noisy
#
aaronpk
what if stuff is removed?
#
kylewm
harder to generalize
#
aaronpk
or if a line completely changes?
#
tantek
and <ins> and <del> take care of it
#
tantek
falling into the trap of making the simple thing look ugly just to handle the complex thing
#
tantek
really bad way to do design
#
tantek
and yet devs like that methodology
#
aaronpk
goes back to musing on readers since that is a higher priority at the moment
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#
tantek
aaronpk, it's all your fault for making kylewm post an edit post. now I'm distracted by analyzing it. :P
#
aaronpk
well at least there's an example in the wild now!
#
tantek
working on it!
#
tantek
(and yes that *is* how we make progress)
#
tantek
aaronpk - somewhat related - what is the micropub protocol for updating a post?
#
tantek
and how is Loqi not looking for that?
#
aaronpk
right now we only have examples of adding info to a post http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#Updating_Objects
#
aaronpk
i think loqi's matcher looks for "what is" at the beginning of a line
#
aaronpk
but I believe ben_thatmustbeme has actually implemented updates
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#
tantek
but aaronpk what is Loqi?
#
Loqi
Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel and other channels https://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi
#
tantek
(not just beginning)
#
aaronpk
whaaaaa
#
tantek
oh yeah we've been having fun with that for a while
#
aaronpk
if only all irc channels had a wii
#
aaronpk
wiki
#
tantek
and here I was thinking the other way around :)
#
GWG
tantek: I stepped away. Did the Underscores answer satisfy?
#
tantek.com
edited /edit (+1413) "add explicit use case Quick Typos Fixes From Friends, add more use-case reasoning, indieweb examples with kylewm since we have one now" (view diff)
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#
emmak
kylewm: i am having trouble logging back in to woodwind
#
emmak
kylewm: i see "Warning: bad response from token endpoint:", and if i inspect the source there is an invisible element that says <response [400]>
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tantek.com
edited /posts (+11) "/* Kinds of Posts */ edit" (view diff)
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#
tantek
darn it I'm finding myself wanting to quote the entirety of a tweet I'm faving
#
tantek
"liking"
#
tantek
quoting the entirety of a like/favorite feels like a repost
#
tantek
http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#repost
#
aaronpk
i agree, if you *want* to quote the entirety of a tweet then it is a repost
#
aaronpk
my "like" posts happen to display the full contents of the thing I am liking, which is subtely different
#
aaronpk
if you are struggling with not wanting that "like" to be a "repost" then I am curious about the distinction between your intent of liking something vs reposting it
#
tantek
nah - if I want to quote the whole thing then I need to implement repost
#
tantek
I'm not a fan of like posts displaying the full contents by default
#
tantek
I'd prefer some form of progressive disclosure, or popup, only as a reader shortcut to clicking the link to the liked thing.
#
aaronpk
interesting
#
aaronpk
twitter shows the full contents of the things you've favorited https://twitter.com/t/favorites
#
aaronpk
i don't even know if facebook has something similar
#
tantek
I think that's only because they've been lazy about that page design.
#
tantek
e.g. Flickr shows mini thumbnails
#
tantek
they do - the right sidebar
#
tantek
I'm going with the - use the first sentence of a tweet as its virtual title
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aaronpk
flickr also shows the full contents of the thing I favorited https://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/favorites
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#
pwcc
For the sake of <140, seeing everything you like isn't too bad. That of course falls over whne you like an article - but they have a tilte
#
tantek
aaronpk - no those are thumbnails
#
tantek
bigger but still
#
tantek
sigh, Flickr no longer works w/o JS :/
#
tantek
also Adobe security notices don't work w/o JS https://helpx.adobe.com/security/products/flash-player/apsa15-02.html
#
aaronpk
hmm interesting point
#
aaronpk
they are just very large thumbnails
#
tantek
yeah
#
tantek
they used to be small square thumbnails
#
tantek
that worked w/o JS
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#
tantek
aaronpk here's what I ended up doing: http://tantek.com/2015/033/f2
#
kylewm
emmak: could you try one more time? I think I'm zeroing in on it
#
aaronpk
interesting
#
tantek
in this case the intention is the liking
#
aaronpk
i think there is a difference between the markup/presentation an author creates vs how it is displayed in a reader
#
tantek
the synthesized "title" of the tweet is merely there as a reminder of what was it that I liked / why
#
aaronpk
so i'm imagining seeing that post in my reader along with the rest of the things in my reader
#
aaronpk
so I'm planning on handling the case when two people have liked the same post
#
tantek
nice
#
tantek
the IG example has that
#
emmak
kylewm: i am getting the same bad response error
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#
tantek
aaronpk - see second example in this screenshot: http://indiewebcamp.com/like#Instagram_followings_activity
#
aaronpk
yup. i'm excited and simultaneously dreading that part of bulding my reader :)
#
kylewm
emmak: in getting "missing required parameter state"... state is provided but blank, I think
#
kylewm
I'm*
#
emmak
looking up indieauth documentation...
#
kylewm
maybe /token_endpoint documentation
#
emmak
where is that?
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#
kylewm
http://indiewebcamp.com/token_endpoint
#
emmak
i don't remember what state is used for
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#
emmak
i wonder why it worked the first time?
#
emmak
was state set then?
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#
emmak
or maybe it just didn't check whether it actually got a token?
#
emmak
i removed the check for empty state, and can log in now, but the like button is still failing
#
kylewm
emmak: it didn't actually get as far as trying to get an access token last time, I don't think
#
kylewm
so, i'm glad it got farther this time!
#
emmak
i can see access tokens were issued both the first time i tried to log in and just now
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kylewm
oh huh, the difference before was the state parameter would not hvae been there at all
#
kylewm
but client_id was blank...because i'm dumb
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@itemizer
@Gh0sTGL @DigitalHitler @Natrualists @430GB @GodlyGalaxy @t mozilla , CoFounder Of Indieweb lol ur crazy bro (twtr.io/vozC5cei_Q)
#
Kevinmarksweb
I've found https://github.com/aaronsw/htmldiff useful for diffs
#
tantek
wat
#
kylewm
tantek: you saw that that dude was talking about "jacking" your twitter account right?
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(or join via IRC, Matrix, or Slack)