#indieweb

2015-02-04

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pfefferle
good morning indieweb
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KevinMarks
Good morning pfefferle
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@adamprocter
Might try and do something with webmentions api and LEDs today if I can get it to recognise rel=me (twtr.io/vrG_7e4Cwa)
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pfefferle
KevinMarks good morning :)
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@kevinmarks
@hyper_linda try https://withknown.com/ - like tumblr, but open source and open web friendly #indieweb (twtr.io/vrXXdug3Rt)
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@haverholm
@tokeriis Velkommen til (den relative) frihed, Toke! Var IndieWeb-modellen måske en løsning for dig? http://Indiewebcamp.com (twtr.io/vrdYwiRcVb)
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@haverholm
@infonauten Som netop sagt til @tokeriis: http://indiewebcamp.com er et spændende, åbent alternativ med mange forskellige muligheder. (twtr.io/vrdqgimcHu)
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@kevinmarks
Yes, @anildash we need to teach the government about http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE - use the silos, point to the source (twtr.io/vrfmidus15)
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Loqi
[bridgy] Anil Dash replied '@kevinmarks that's already default policy in many places, and the common way of complying with the Presidential Records Act.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/anildash/status/562954005576683522)
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Loqi
[bridgy] Todd Barnard favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/562953476117131265)
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@adamprocter
Anyone see a reason why rel=me for webmentions.io is not picking up links on http://indiewebify.me/validate-rel-me/?url=http%253A%252F%252Fadamprocter.co.uk #indieweb #webmentions (twtr.io/vrkeJkUrLY)
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Loqi
[mention] http://haverholm.com/2015/02/04/my-advice-to-anybody-wanting-to-quit-facebook/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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@kevmccord
Lots of interesting custom tables (aka Pages) are added to #ministryplatform databases by @ThinkMinistry churches! #ownyourdata #ChMS (twtr.io/vroVGuEAcu)
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GWG
Good morning
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pfefferle
good morning GWG
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GWG
Good morning Pfefferle.
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GWG
How are things?
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pfefferle
a bit stessy… need to finish an indieweb article today
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GWG
Good luck.
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GWG
What is it about?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "it about" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=it+about&summary=%28prompted+by+GWG+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-04/line/1423060788618%29
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pfefferle
indieweb in general
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pfefferle
it is for a german magazine
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pfefferle
they want to focus in indieweb
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GWG
I hope it is well received.
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millette
focus an issue on indieweb or the magazine itself?
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@mshook
POSSE to Twitter description http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_to_Twitter #twitter #posse #indieweb #withknown #explanation #whyto #why .. http://mshook.withknown.com/2015/posse-to-twitter-descriptiontwitterposse_to_twittertwitter-posse-indieweb-withknown-explanation-whyto-why (twtr.io/vrs2nVErwo)
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Loqi
[mention] Michael Shook commented 'POSSE to Twitter description http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_to_Twitter #twitter #posse #indieweb #withknown #explanation #whyto #why ...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_to_Twitter (http://mshook.withknown.com/2015/posse-to-twitter-descriptiontwitterposse_to_twittertwitter-posse-indieweb-withknown-explanation-whyto-why)
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pfefferle
millette only one issue
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell aaronpk, kylewm we were so overthinking noting that a post was already liked by a user. It won't be up to the minute, but the post itself would "ideally" display the like, when its pulled in you would have that info
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@martinlindner
@jweilharter jim groom (der mann dahinter) ist eine schlüsselfigur in der edu-#indieweb-bewegung, eng verbunden mit #openeducation. (twtr.io/vrxp7pYf29)
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kylewm_
ideally that's true but I subscribe to lots of sites that don't, legacy XML feeds, proxied twitter stream, tantek.com...
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Loqi
kylewm_: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 25 minutes ago: we were so overthinking noting that a post was already liked by a user. It won't be up to the minute, but the post itself would "ideally" display the like, when its pulled in you would have that info
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kylewm_
you would have better luck polling the logged in user's unfiltered feed, looking for like posts
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ben_thatmustbeme
perhaps that should be something thats an issue for your personal site though, allowing multiple "likes" of the same url
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ben_thatmustbeme
so who cares if you like it again]
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ben_thatmustbeme
or maybe they want to like it again (bump it back to top)
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kylewm_
well it would be nice to show "Liked" instead of the button
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmmm, if the person supports deleting you could "unlike" then too
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kylewm_
also lots of sites pull in comments and likes with JavaScript
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kylewm_
unlike would be cool
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ben_thatmustbeme
really? javascript?
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kylewm_
webmention.io, webmention.herokuapp.com
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ben_thatmustbeme
i was just starting to create a github issue btw, when i posted a reply, the reply field should empty and hide
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millette
ben_thatmust, js comments, like https://disqus.com/ I presume
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kylewm_
sgtm
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ben_thatmustbeme
WOAH, also if you subscribe to flutterby.com it basically just takes over your feed
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ben_thatmustbeme
looks like there are no time-stamps, wonder what the proper way to handle that would be
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kylewm_
yeah... right now it assumes anything without a date was published "now" which will be a pretty good approximation after the initial flood
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ben_thatmustbeme
ahh okay, so it does remember when it last polled
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@martinlindner
@jweilharter ich (wie die #indieweb-leute) stimme deinen #educhatDE-tweets zu #blogs vollkommen zu. viel spaß mit dem finanzamt. (twtr.io/vs034mzeaW)
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bret
evanp posted a bunch of user stories for socialwg: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories looks pretty complete
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kylewm.com
edited /Woodwind (+518) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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gRegor`
Nice pun with the Woodwind name. :)
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snarfed
woodwind++
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Loqi
woodwind has 1 karma
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aaronpk
good morning
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Loqi
aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 46 minutes ago: we were so overthinking noting that a post was already liked by a user. It won't be up to the minute, but the post itself would "ideally" display the like, when its pulled in you would have that info
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: yes tantek mentioned that yesterday
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ben_thatmustbeme
ah, i missed that
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webgefrickel.de
edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+302) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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@adamprocter
Pretty sure I have set up webmention.io correctly on adamprocter . co .uk bit feed suggests no mentions even when @_inkubator has mentioned (twtr.io/vsJYqTtr4Z)
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@kevinmarks
@adamprocter @_inkubator to get webmentions from twitter you need to set up brid.gy as well (twtr.io/vsJfrusQ6Q)
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KevinMarks_
hm, socialWG use case? A posts a note containing the word "indieweb" K is notified by a persistent keyword search, and responds to A's post
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aaronpk
add it!
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aaronpk
we'll see if anyone argues it's out of scope because it might require federation or somethig
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KevinMarks_
heh
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tantek
kylewm: lol at being put in a list with legacy XML feeds
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KevinMarks_
these user stories all end in deletion https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories
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tantek
there is something tragic about that
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tantek
at least realistic, not everything is sunshine and flowers
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kylewm
and when pump.io launched and moved everyone over from statusnet, there was no way to delete your account
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kylewm
and for a while that was the most requested feature by a lot
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kylewm
which has to suck
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KevinMarks_
btw kylewm, do you pin "published" to current time when crawling? (if you don't you may get posts in the future due to timezone issues)
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KevinMarks_
"John realizes he was actually playing the tuba, not the guitar."
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kylewm
KevinMarks_: they're all utc... it is still a problem because the feeds are not all polled at the same time
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kylewm
so you might get a post from 5 minutes ago and then later poll another feed and get one from 45 minutes ago
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kylewm
and i miss it unless i scroll down a bit
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KevinMarks_
"John decides not to post while on ambien next time"
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cweiske
tantek, could we talk about the phorkie problem of yesterday a bit? my problem is that there are two use cases (working with the paste vs. embedding the paste) which require different information (working requires edit buttons, while embedding does not. embedding requires a style sheet that's as standalone as possible, the normal phorkie display does not). should this all be expressed in the same HTML code?
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KevinMarks_
this is almost a McSweeney's post https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories
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tantek
cweiske if it can all be expressed in the same HTML code, it should be. and it usually can.
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tantek
the edit buttons are interesting in particular, as they could also be /webactions which enable the reader to perform edit actions on their own site, and syndicate to phorkie
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cweiske
use case for embeds are to embed syntax-highlighted code in your blog. it shouldn't be in the readers way, and buttons would distract
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KevinMarks_
article's that really need a posting date: http://www.nytimes.com/ref/technology/blogs_101.html?src=tp
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ben_thatmustbeme
kylewm, btw, i had a pull req for woodwind on how to put html first
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ben_thatmustbeme
i should be able to tackle the js fix from home sometime
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Loqi
it is probable
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cweiske
also, embeds have the file name below the code, while it's above on the real phorkie pages
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: i saw it, thanks! will merge and deploy when i have a chance
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gRegor`
Interesting numbers/advice from superfeedr: http://blog.superfeedr.com/wh-fetches-our-blog-feed/
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tantek
cweiske: there's a lot to be documented/explored for the special-cases of /code posts - and I think the details you point out (for different uses thereof) are important
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gregorlove.com
created /Superfeedr (+134) "stub" (view diff)
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kylewm
gRegor`: that's super interesting
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willnorris
allow me to introduce the newest (and most certainly the youngest) member of the indie web: https://gabenorris.com/
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Loqi
willnorris: snarfed left you a message 3 weeks, 6 days ago: hi! quick question: bridgy is hitting the G+ API daily courtesy quota, and i'd like to request a bump, but i'm a bit scared to bring any attention to it. do you have any feeling for whether the G+ team would be ok with bridgy, or whether they'd ban hammer it? (i'll ask other friends there too, but you have the most direct experience. :P details: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/22 )
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gRegor`
What is Superfeedr?
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Loqi
Superfeedr is a feed API that supports PubSubHubbub https://indiewebcamp.com/Superfeedr
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gRegor`
^ Feel free to expand
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snarfed
willnorris: ignore that, we're fine w/g+ quota now
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snarfed
more importantly, congratulations!!!
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gregorlove.com
created /superfeedr (+24) "r" (view diff)
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willnorris
thanks :)
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gRegor`
indiewebkids++
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Loqi
indiewebkids has 1 karma
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gRegor`
Nice illustration on that page, and congratulations willnorris!
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KevinMarks_
congratulations Will
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willnorris
he’s about 15 hours old, and already has level 6 security on http://indiewebcamp.com/https :) A little ways to go on indiemark, since he can’t easily do indieauth without any profiles anywhere
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gRegor`
Haha
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willnorris
err, level 5? whatever it is
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willnorris
favorite commit ever: https://github.com/willnorris/gabenorris.com/commit/a4cee75c5ba60a2be1c76b1e5156c5841cebb9cc
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KevinMarks_
great parenting there, getting his domain so soon. my boys were teenagers before I bought them domains
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KevinMarks_
love the xfn "met"
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benwerd
That's awesome!
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benwerd
willnorris: congratulations!
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willnorris
that was my favoriate part of the commit as well :)
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snarfed
+1 to preemptive domains for kids. :P i haven't done nearly as much with http://brookebarrett.org/ though
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KevinMarks_
my contribution: http://www.kevinmarks.com/myfirstwebsite.html
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@junebre
Hørt om IndieWeb? http://junebre.blogspot.no/2015/02/hrt-om-indieweb.html (twtr.io/vsQTJyjSoY)
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KevinMarks_
I do wonder if choosing baby names these days involves a lot of use of whois
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willnorris
we certainly didn’t chose a name because of domain availability, but I did preemptively buy quite a few domains for names we didn’t end up choosing
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willnorris
s/chose/choose*/
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Loqi
willnorris meant to say: we certainly didn’t choose* a name because of domain availability, but I did preemptively buy quite a few domains for names we didn’t end up choosing
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willnorris
might hang on to them for a few years in case we have a second
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tantek
congratulations willnorris!!!
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cweiske.de * uploaded "[[File:phorkie embed.png]]": Source code from a paste on [[phorkie]] embedded in a HTML page
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@adamprocter
@barryf made sure Ive turned on bridg.y (twitter)webmentions.io stuff just on homepage but still broke/test just says web mention queued :( (twtr.io/vsRUqLdku8)
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KevinMarks_
http://junebre.blogspot.no/2015/02/hrt-om-indieweb.html looks liek the beginnign of a Norwegian translation fo the homepage
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KevinMarks_
but what is that logo?
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cweiske.de * uploaded "[[File:phorkie paste.png]]": Paste display in [[phorkie]]
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cweiske.de
edited /code (+1010) "add source code embedding" (view diff)
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kylewm
KevinMarks_: looks like it's from http://www.indieweb.co.nz/
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KevinMarks_
hah, oops
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kylewm
"visually similar" images on google includes the indiewebcamp logo, and a picture of tantek's face
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kylewm
which are not particularly visually similar...
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cweiske.de
edited /git (+225) "/* POSSE */" (view diff)
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tantek
kylewm: got another 403 forbidden error from Bridgy Publish trying to like a FB post (photo in this case) http://tantek.com/2015/035/f1
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kylewm
tantek: tracking https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/350#issuecomment-72775052
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tantek
whereas this worked: http://tantek.com/2015/035/f2
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kylewm
tl;dr it's not reliably possible to get the facebook ID of a post from its permalink URL
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kylewm
as far as we can tell
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tantek
dang
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KevinMarks_
hah, I didn't know about .web tld http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.web
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tantek
waits for .www tld and then the mad rush to setup com.example.www
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tantek
and all the other reversed domain hiearchy examples in the wild or in use in systems like com.apple.*
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KevinMarks_
moc.elpmaxe.www
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KevinMarks_
there's a webhooks meetup: http://www.meetup.com/API-Meetup/events/220288278/
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk, kylewm the question of how to display a like button in a reader is an interesting one.
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tantek
as noted, a reader should display (at least the presence of) the likes (responses in general) on a post
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tantek
at a minimum it can retrieve these from the post permalink itself
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tantek
secondarily it can query its own cache of posts to see if any of them are "likes" (etc.) of a particular post, and display those as well
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ben_thatmustbeme
It in that case referring to the reader
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tantek
right
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, so the reader knows if you like from within the reader, the reader knows you liked a post, if the post is displaying it
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tantek
the challenge you're running into with a "like" button is the variety of possible states it could display
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tantek
step one - list all those states
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tantek
step two - figure out a UI for them
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ben_thatmustbeme
1, post is liked by user and post is displaying like, post is liked by user and post is not displaying like, post is not liked by user
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ben_thatmustbeme
i only see those 3 states
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tantek
there are more, based on all the questions you and aaronpk have already asked
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ben_thatmustbeme
well, i suppose there could be "user has not liked the post but it is displaying on the post" if a like was deleted, but i think for the current implementation we are leaving out removing likes
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tantek
"liked" - a reader for example can know that you *have* liked something, via its own cache, or a post claiming you've liked something, with a link to the permalink of your like post (verifiability of a like)
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tantek
then there are all the substates of where a post doesn't show that you've liked it
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tantek
of which there are several possibilities
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tantek
- post does not show likes
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tantek
- post has not "approved" your like (moderation of responses)
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ben_thatmustbeme
yes, but i don't know that we really need to know the process of a external site, those two don't matter to us
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tantek
- post has not received a like from you
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tantek
(i.e. webmention fail of somesort)
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tantek
- you have not liked the post
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tantek
the possibility of ambiguity is important
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ben_thatmustbeme
well i think it comes back then to the only way to really know that state is to poll the user's own site (assuming it stored the status of the webmention)
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tantek
i.e. the reader may know that you've *tried* to like a post (either via a like post of yours the reader has cached), or via the reader's own "like" button.
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tantek
such a "pending like" is something to indicate in the UI
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tantek
so the user doesn't bother trying to re-like something
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, personally, i don't consider a like "pending" once i have posted it publicly, the site i'm liking aggregating it or not is another issue
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ben_thatmustbeme
but yes, all of this is intended to stop the user trying to re-like something.
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KevinMarks_
so states are 1. not liked 2. like sent by micropub 3. like confirmed by reading users site 4. webmention sent to liked site 5. webmention accepted by liked site
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KevinMarks_
you need that order or the webmention won't succeed
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek is pointing out that there is a lot of drill down in to 4.
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KevinMarks_
so there are 4 pending states there
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ben_thatmustbeme
also 6. like displayed on liked site
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tantek
the key is to capture the states which are actionable by the user
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tantek
1. not liked = user can try to like the post
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tantek
2. user liked in reader, reader posting via micropub to user's site
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tantek
2a. reader posting via micropub succeeded (if failed, same as 1)
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tantek
3. user has a like of the post on their own site
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@adamprocter
I think my webmentions may also be working now :D oh no now I have to connect this json to my Arduino now #st4i (twtr.io/vsXfdba5AQ)
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tantek
4. reader has sent a webmention from user's site to post
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Loqi
!calc 4. reader has sent a webmention from user's site to post
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tantek
4a. webmention accepted
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tantek
4b. or webmention rejected
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tantek
5. liked post itself shows a like from the user
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tantek
(1) is difficult to know "for sure"
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ben_thatmustbeme
do you think 4b. should be broken down?
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tantek
possibly
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ben_thatmustbeme
rejected vs failed
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tantek
we should collect/document that at least
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tantek
from a user-perspective, I think there are four states
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ben_thatmustbeme
although is that more an issue of the negotiation/retry on the site side, not something the reader should ccare about
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Loqi
+1
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tantek
1. user has not liked that post
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tantek
2. reader does not know if user has liked that post
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tantek
3. reader knows user has *tried* to like that post, but can't confirm it on the post
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tantek
4. reader sees that user has liked the post
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tantek
(1) could be an empty heart/star
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tantek
(4) could be a red/gold heart/star
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tantek
and the hard part is figuring out the inbetween
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ben_thatmustbeme
(3) a yellow / half and half
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tantek
(2) could be a gray filled heart / star (gay indicating unknown)
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tantek
(3) could be some form of half red/gold, either spatially, or dithered / colortone.
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tantek
between the "gray" and the red/gold heart/star
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ben_thatmustbeme
we had been trying to figure out a way to be able to clarify (2) into the other groups, which is where things get complex
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: probably worth documenting the problem now in a "Brainstorming" section on /reader
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ben_thatmustbeme
agreed
#
ben_thatmustbeme
perhaps we can just insert chat link for now
#
ben_thatmustbeme
actually i don't think (1) and (2) make sense
#
tantek
I think they're quite important to distinguish
#
ben_thatmustbeme
the reader cannot know for sure that the user has not liked that post without knowing for sure that a user has liked that post
#
tantek
right!
#
tantek
hence the simplest like button implementation is gray filled
#
tantek
assume reader knows not
#
ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, so start at (2)
#
tantek
exactly
#
tantek
and the implement the states in order of easiest to hardest
#
ben_thatmustbeme
then try to determine some way (poll site for more info) then you can say 1 or 3
#
tantek
note that any indie post with webactions has this same proble
#
tantek
s/proble/problem
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: note that any indie post with webactions has this same problem
#
tantek
e.g. I have an (empty star) Like button on my notes: http://tantek.com/2015/033/t1/disable-flash-vulnerability-zeroday
#
tantek
but probably should be a light gray filled star to indicate the lack of knowledge of whether the post has been liked or not
#
ben_thatmustbeme
same for Repost
#
tantek
that's already gray filled, as is reply
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i mean in general, repost would be something you would have a set of states for
#
tantek
all of which *could* be colored solid if the site knew the reader had done that action already
#
ben_thatmustbeme
or would repost make sense to be something you would do more than once?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
the so-called "Bump"
#
tantek
what do silos do?
#
tantek
bump is something else
#
tantek
like a weak form of pin
#
tantek
e.g. repost in Twitter, retweet, is a toggle
#
aaronpk
this is gonna take a while to catch up on from the logs
#
tantek
if you retweet something, then click the colored in retweet button, it gives you the option to unretweet (confirm), which deletes the retweet post from your timeline, and resets the button to gray.
#
tantek
whereas in FB/G+ if you "share" something (their name for "repost"), it's not clear if you can unshare it (besides explicit deletion), or if you can reshare it
#
tantek
in twitter you can only reretweet something if you've unretweeted it
#
tantek
however reply is different - as it certainly makes sense to reply to a post more than once with different replies
#
tantek
though a reader that *knew* you'd replied to a post could show you your previous reply / replies if any before opening a text box to write a new (another) reply.
#
tantek
none of this is unique to a reader BTW
#
tantek
all of these problem / challenges apply to *any* display of webactions buttons
#
tantek
whether in a reader, or on a post permalink
#
tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: perhaps capture this in a new "button states" subsection in (at the end of) the http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#Brainstorming section ?
#
tantek
noting it's applicability to readers and permalinks?
#
KevinMarks_
so map these to stages in the twitter heart icon?
#
tantek
twitter does not heart
#
tantek
though the comparison to twitter is a good one, as wherever you display an embedded tweet, assuming you load/run Twitter's JS, the embedded tweet shows the webaction buttons in a state reflecting what the (logged in) user has done with them.
#
tantek
indieweb posts should work the same way
#
tantek
whether on their post permalink page, or when embedded inside another site (in a quote, in a reader etc.), if they have webactions buttons, those buttons should reflect the user's interaction if any with the post.
#
KevinMarks_
the animates star thingy they do on ios
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i'll try to update tonight, heading home now
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#
KevinMarks_
https://twitter.com/reubenarmstrong/status/558973234809671680
#
@ReubenArmstrong
The new Twitter favourite icon animation for iOS is great. Via @design by @bwdds https://twitter.com/design/status/555829416694005760/photo/1 (twtr.io/vTywL_4m_f)
#
KevinMarks_
more canonically: https://dribbble.com/shots/1884504-Twitter-Fav?list=users&offset=0
#
KevinMarks_
this is iOS only
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#
tantek
BTW - ben_thatmustbeme - what NOT to do if the user clicks a fully red/gold heart/star - display an error like "You are not allowed to do that." or "An error occured" and "Try reloading the page". (i.e. what Twitter does if you try to favorite something that's already favorited)
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#
@kirilind
Doc Searls on UBOS, the OS for your home server #indiebox #ownyourdata http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/youre-boss-ubos https://kirilind.me/2015/doc-searls-on-ubos-the-os-for-your-home-server (twtr.io/vs_jrLhYbG)
#
tantek
notes that there is no mention of "tag" on https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories
#
aaronpk
oo do we need to add some tagging use cases?
#
tantek
SWAT0 has person tagging
#
tantek
we could use broader tagging, hasthtagging, location tagging
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kodumulo
http://kodumulo.withknown.com/2015/saluton-kaj-bonvenon
#
aaronpk
oh my
#
aaronpk
accidentally ran that through google translate and read it in german
#
benwerd
adds "esperanto translation of UI" to list
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KevinMarks_
I asked for norwegian first: http://junebre.blogspot.no/2015/02/hrt-om-indieweb.html
#
@benwerd
I love that, a few years in, I'm having decentralized conversations using webmention every. single. day. #indieweb (twtr.io/vshNKLYz9s)
#
tantek
benwerd, kylewm, KevinMarks, snarfed - I'm out of town next week - can one or more of you lead the organizing/hosting of Homebrew Website Club 2015-02-11 in SF?
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tantek
https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club
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#
tantek.com
edited /events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club (+108) "/* RSVP */ regrest" (view diff)
#
tantek
regrets even
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tylergillies.club
edited /events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club (+15) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
#
tylergillies.club
created /Template:kodumulo (+70) "Created page with "= <a class="h-card" href="http://aaronparecki.com">Aaron Parecki</a> ="" (view diff)
#
bret
KevinMarks_: that twitter star icon.. totally! dopamine rush ;)
#
bret
kinda want to "borrow" it
#
aaronpk
kodumulo: why'd you ut my h-card on your page!
#
kodumulo
aaronpk: was a test to see what teh template rendered it as
#
kodumulo
i usually copy and paste your stuff for testing
#
aaronpk
ha
#
tylergillies.club
edited /Template:kodumulo (-3) "/* Aaron Parecki */" (view diff)
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#
bret
buhhhh..... media wiki citation syntax
#
bret
cmon bret
#
tylergillies.club
created /User:Kodumulo (+67) "Created page with "<a class="h-card" href="http://kodumulo.withknown.com">Kodumulo</a>"" (view diff)
#
tylergillies.club
edited /Template:kodumulo (-67) "Blanked the page" (view diff)
#
Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Tylergillies.club * moved [[Template:kodumulo]] to [[ibrokeit]]
#
tylergillies.club
edited /events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club (-14) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
#
tylergillies.club
edited /events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club (+14) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
#
kodumulo
bloody hell
#
kodumulo
gives up
#
@channyun
국내에서 인디웹(@indiewebcamp )의 취지에 공감하시는 독립 웹사이트 운영자 및 블로거들의 첫번째 모임을 하고자 합니다. 관심 있는 분들 참여해 주시길... https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (twtr.io/vskt7JcfLG)
#
kodumulo
@aaronpk are those pages rendered on page load or on save?
#
kylewm
interesting, google translate recognizess "kodomulo" as Esperanto but translates it to kodomulo
#
aaronpk
kodumulo: you blanked out your template, what'd you expect?
#
kodumulo
aaronpk: um... i started working on user page
#
kodumulo
im claiming kodumulo user page
#
aaronpk
{{kodumulo}} uses the template
#
kodumulo
plants a flag
#
Loqi
[bridgy] borashow favorited a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (https://twitter.com/channyun/status/563135732852617216)
#
kodumulo
OOOOOH
#
kodumulo
bollocks
#
kodumulo
I had it right the first damn time
#
kodumulo
kodumulo--
#
Loqi
You can't karma yourself!
#
kodumulo
!karma !karma
#
Loqi
!karma has 0 karma
#
Loqi
has 0 karma has 0 karma
#
kodumulo
meh
#
kodumulo
aaronpk: how do you get the little favicon bugger?
#
kodumulo
is that the favicon of the href?
#
aaronpk
look at https://indiewebcamp.com/Template:aaronpk
#
tantek
kodumulo: the image is in the template
#
tylergillies.club
edited /ibrokeit (+145) (view diff)
#
tylergillies.club
edited /ibrokeit (+10) (view diff)
#
kodumulo
VICTORY IS MINE
#
bret
kodumulo: someone should probrably write up a mini instruction page on user templates
#
bret
:D
#
bret
kodumulo++
#
Loqi
kodumulo has 3 karma
#
kodumulo
http://note.io/1ubqUau
#
bret
right on kodumulo see you there :)
#
tylergillies.club
edited /User:Kodumulo (-1) (view diff)
#
tylergillies.club
edited /ibrokeit (+16) (view diff)
#
@acegiak
Ben Werdmüller: I love that, a few years in, I'm having decentralized conversations using webmention every. - http://acegiak.net/2015/02/05/ben-werdmuller-i-love-that-a-few-years-in-im-having-decentralized-conversations-using-webmention-every-single-day-indieweb/ (twtr.io/vsmvyFkarU)
#
tylergillies.club
edited /ibrokeit (-2) (view diff)
#
tylergillies.club
edited /ibrokeit (+0) (view diff)
#
kodumulo
discovers the preview button
#
kodumulo
aaronpk: Im literally right next to you guys.
#
kodumulo
in the sushi building
#
kodumulo
in front of office max
#
aaronpk
whoa!
#
kodumulo
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/506+SW+6th+Ave,+Portland,+OR+97204/esri+pdx/@45.5208705,-122.6799827,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x54950a044637db29:0xc9c4129cdd0c2dcb!2m2!1d-122.6777907!2d45.5202231!1m5!1m1!1s0x54950a0f90bed80f:0x3caf2a5ae06bdb2!2m2!1d-122.677399!2d45.521518
#
channy.creation.net
edited /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (+174) "/* 상세 내용 */" (view diff)
#
channy.creation.net
edited /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (+10) "/* 상세 내용 */" (view diff)
#
bret.io
created /flexbox (+1837) "Learning flexbox. These are my links for learning." (view diff)
#
channy.creation.net
edited /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (+0) "/* 홈브루 웹사이트 클럽 미트업 */" (view diff)
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kodumulo
bret: that mushrooms oscope video is amazeballs
#
bret
isnt that cool! I wanna try it
#
Loqi
[bridgy] kim hoe jang favorited a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (https://twitter.com/channyun/status/563135732852617216)
#
kgoon.asia
edited /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (+18) "/* 모임 신청 */" (view diff)
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Loqi
[bridgy] pulmu favorited a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (https://twitter.com/channyun/status/563135732852617216)
#
GWG
I am really wanting a simple mobile post ui right now
#
channy.creation.net
edited /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (+36) "/* 모임 신청 */" (view diff)
#
kylewm.com
edited /events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */ rsvp-yes-sf" (view diff)
#
kodumulo
channy owns creation.net
#
kodumulo
thats a pretty decent domain
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#
aaronpk
registered in 1996
#
kodumulo
I was in middle school
#
snarfed
GWG: remind me, you don't use the wp mobile app?
#
GWG
I was in high school. Wish I had anticipated domain squatting
#
GWG
Snarfed, no.
#
aaronpk
the WP mobile app is great!
#
snarfed
GWG: you should then, it's good
#
GWG
I tried, but needed too many extra steps
#
snarfed
really?
# scor joined the channel
#
snarfed
share a picture or link to the app, then one tap to publish
#
snarfed
press this on mobile web is also good, but the app is better
#
kylewm
snarfed: benwerd: KevinMarks_: any preferences/suggestions for HWC location for next week?
#
GWG
Snarfed, I just want some presets
#
benwerd
kylewm: sadly I can no longer offer up our digs - no preferences
#
GWG
I have different options for different types of posts
#
snarfed
GWG: sure. https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-indieweb-press-this does that
#
GWG
It takes too long for me to post now
#
kylewm
we need to recruit someone to indieweb with SOMA office space :p
#
GWG
Snarfed, did you check out the new version?
#
snarfed
damn, i'd offer quip but i left :P
#
snarfed
joining http://colorgenomics.com/ in march
#
snarfed
GWG: of press this? no
#
kylewm
snarfed: wow big news! congratulations
#
snarfed
thanks!
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#
GWG
Snarfed, I wish you well in future endeavors
#
kodumulo
another company named color
#
snarfed
thanks GWG
#
kodumulo
this isn't gonna end bad at all
#
snarfed
heh yes
#
KartikPrabhu
snarfed: congratulations
#
kylewm
what was the previous company named Color?
#
GWG
Snarfed, I just haven't found the tool for me.
#
kodumulo
an instagram like thing
#
kodumulo
that got like 500000 million in vc money
#
kodumulo
that went nowhere
#
KevinMarks
Interesting http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-05/twitter-said-to-reach-deal-for-tweets-in-google-search-results
#
kodumulo
http://mashable.com/2012/10/17/color-shuts-down/
#
GWG
Snarfed, that is why I hope for Micropub
#
KevinMarks
Do you have micropub support in wp now?
#
snarfed
KevinMarks: nope :(
#
kylewm
snarfed: so your paternity leave was self-imposed? here i was impressed with quip's very liberal policy :)
#
snarfed
kylewm: ahaha. the first 2mo were real paternity leave. this 2 mo are between jobs
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KevinMarks_
which of me is doing that?
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acegiak
hola!
#
GWG
Acegiak, long time no see
#
acegiak
yeah I've been pretty crazy busy
#
GWG
KevinMarks, even if we did, no Android client
#
KevinMarks_
you could use web ones
#
acegiak
I've been using the web client for wordpress in favour of it's android app because the android app doesn't appear to trigger certain event hooks in the same way
#
GWG
KevinMarks, cart before horse
#
acegiak
get a good enough web solution going and you don't need natives
#
GWG
Acegiak, nice to have you back
#
acegiak
weighing in on everything with no context :P
#
KevinMarks_
well, for example ownyourgram would mean you could use android instagram
#
GWG
Acegiak, still nice
#
KevinMarks_
and yes, very welcom
#
GWG
KevinMarks, I am moving slowly
#
KevinMarks_
realises that my assumed problem with CSS was me not escaping right
#
GWG
Acegiak, anything you curious about that occurred in your absence?
#
acegiak
GWG: hows your wordpress suite? I'm looking at which approaches are better for getting friends on the indieweb
#
acegiak
I'm curious to know if I missed any major developments that I should be implementing on my site
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
GWG
Acegiak, I forked Indieweb Taxonomy after the unpleasantness
#
GWG
I decided to change how it worked
#
acegiak
fair enough. what's the new approach?
#
GWG
Instead of working with Post Formats, by adding a note and article term, I could eliminate post formats entirely
#
acegiak
that's a really good idea
#
GWG
I left the original design there
#
GWG
And renamed it Post Kinds
#
acegiak
post formats on wordpress is a failed implementation
#
acegiak
i think it was just the wordpress team getting intimidated by tumblr
#
GWG
This is more about context and less about styling.
#
acegiak
yeah
#
GWG
But it can be styled
#
GWG
I am trying to get to a 1.0 release
#
GWG
At that point, I intend to put it on the WordPress repository
#
acegiak
this project: https://github.com/dshanske/indieweb-post-kinds ?
#
GWG
Acegiak, correct
#
acegiak
are you allowing acegiak style multikind posts?
#
GWG
Acegiak, I took out that feature.
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Sungjoon Yoon favorited a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (https://twitter.com/channyun/status/563135732852617216)
#
GWG
But I had plans to put in an override for you.
#
GWG
You were the only one who seems to do multi kind
#
acegiak
Are you using the same metadata fields or a new set/system?
#
acegiak
Yeah apparently?
#
acegiak
I find that weird
#
GWG
Acegiak, the same array I switched to.
#
GWG
So I could add without any further issues.
#
GWG
Now supports author
#
acegiak
I feel like if I want to comment on something and also like it or rsvp to it making that two posts would violate DRY?
#
GWG
I need to improve the profile picture though
#
acegiak
neat
#
acegiak
well I might switch to it if I can keep my existing metadata and metadata display code
#
GWG
Interesting question
#
snarfed
acegiak: it's been discussed before, and no, not necessarily a DRY violation
#
snarfed
they're two separate things
#
GWG
Well, I have a bunch of things in my mind that prevent a 1.0 release
#
snarfed
i don't think there was a strong conclusion, but people thought separate posts and merged post were both ok
#
GWG
I'll be working on them.
#
acegiak
snarfed: ok, so I'll keep rocking with making sure whisperfollow supports both options
#
GWG
One was what you do with the absence of a kind for posts that existed before
#
acegiak
not that whisperfollow is a solution many people can afford to run. It's rss aggregation is so heavy
#
snarfed
!tell tantek,aaronpk just fyi, bridgy publish is now oauth protected (interactive) or requires backlink (webmention). i think that closes the outstanding security concern(s). let me know if you see any bugs!
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
acegiak
GWG: don't you have a case for posts that have no kind anyway?
#
KevinMarks_
hm, I just relaised that http://svgur.com/ should have h-feed markup on the homepage
#
GWG
Well, in post formats, null is standard.
#
GWG
I thought that I would make it user choice.
#
GWG
Null is note
#
GWG
Or null is article
#
acegiak
makes sense
#
acegiak
so why would that not apply to older posts?
#
GWG
But it would not show up in the archives without an explicit decision
#
acegiak
thepost?
#
GWG
The unkind post
#
KevinMarks_
can I have a feed with no text?
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#
GWG
Acegiak, the selection box is something that I want to reww
#
GWG
Rewrite
#
GWG
KevinMarks, photo?
#
acegiak
I would have an option in the plugin options for default post type
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#
GWG
I was also think
#
GWG
Ing
#
GWG
Of sesetting the podt
#
GWG
Grrr...
#
GWG
I was also thinking of setting the post format to something to allow backward compatibility with unkind themes
#
paperon.net
edited /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (+33) "/* 모임 신청 */" (view diff)
#
paperon.net
edited /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (-21) "/* 모임 신청 */" (view diff)
#
acegiak
I feel like you're never gonna get a really nice solution to the problem of unkind themes so it might actually be more annoying to offer a half-solution
#
KevinMarks_
hm, I'm not putting dates on them though
#
acegiak
if a kinds is an indieweb solution then you may as well require a compatible theme
#
KevinMarks_
https://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsvgur.com%2F
#
GWG
Acegiak, I have a starter theme
#
acegiak
excellent
#
GWG
Mf2_s
#
acegiak
my theme definitely needs a rework
#
GWG
It supports Semantic Linkbacks, Post Kinds...
#
GWG
I back ported a lot of SemPress code
#
acegiak
yeah
#
GWG
But without the style
#
GWG
Acegiak, I just don't want to scare newbies
#
KevinMarks_
!tell kylewm woodwind didn't like my image only feed on svgur.com (shrewdness did))
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
acegiak
GWG: totally understandable but the best solution there is to have some really good compatible themes I think
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#
acegiak
sempress supports semantic linkbacks doesn't it?
#
GWG
Acegiak, not at all
#
acegiak
ah dang. ok
#
GWG
I got pfefferle to add a function to count semantic types
#
acegiak
I'm just aware that we spent a lot of time styling sempress to look good enough for blackwoolholiday.com so I'm trying to avoid starting again on that front with another base theme
#
GWG
So I made my starter theme display the like count and so on
#
acegiak
cool
#
GWG
It shares the underscores base
#
GWG
Shouldn't be impossible to use a different style sheet
#
GWG
Though I did mod a bit
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#
GWG
Also I am keeping up with underscores commits
#
acegiak
kk
#
GWG
For example, I added SASS when they did
#
acegiak
what is sass?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "sass" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=sass&summary=%28prompted+by+acegiak+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-04/line/1423104240568%29
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GWG
What is SASS?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "SASS" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=SASS&summary=%28prompted+by+GWG+https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-04/line/1423104252916%29
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GWG
Thought we did
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GWG
Acegiak, were you tanteking?
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GWG
Or asking?
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acegiak
I don't know what SASS is in this context
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GWG
SASS is a CSS extension
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gRegor`
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sass_(stylesheet_language)
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gRegor`
It's come up a couple times. IWC wiki could use a page
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acegiak
ta
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gRegor`
Could you stub /SASS, GWG?
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GWG
It, most usefully for development, allows you to break your stylesheet into pieces
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GWG
gRegor`: I was not at an airport waiting to board a flight
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KevinMarks_
I thought it was a preprocessor?
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GWG
I will try to do it later
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gRegor`
Oh, no worries. Safe travels!
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GWG
Plane already late and no wifi again
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GWG
They only have a few not refitted. How do I keep getting them?
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kevinmarks.com
created /sass (+178) "(prompted by acegiak https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-04/line/1423104240568)" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com
edited /sass (+2) (view diff)
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KevinMarks_
what is sass?
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Loqi
SASS is a Stylesheet Language that extends CSS and is compiled into CSS before publishing https://indiewebcamp.com/sass
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acegiak
yay
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KevinMarks_
stubbed - add lins if you use it
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KevinMarks_
interesting: http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/4/7982099/twitter-ceo-sent-memo-taking-personal-responsibility-for-the
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GWG
I use it to simplify my CSS. Makes change easier to do due separate files.
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KevinMarks_
basically twitter is leaking lots of stories today as they announce earnings tomorrow and they want to have things that aren't flat user numbers to talk about
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GWG
KevinMarks, will do.
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GWG
acegiak, since they will be closing the door soon, if you get a chance to look at anything of mine and have feedback, file an issue
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GWG
I want to finish the suite
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@ODNTTheSeries
FINAL Season! Help us out! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/old-dogs-new-tricks-4th-final-season #indie #indieweb #LGBT Decide how @ODNTTheSeries ends! #webseries http://www.odnt.tv (twtr.io/vsyD54rEGY)
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@LeonAcord
RT @ODNTTheSeries: FINAL Season! Help us out! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/old-dogs-new-tricks-4th-final-season #indie #indieweb #LGBT Decide how @ODNTTheSeries ends! #webseries http… (twtr.io/vsyEsSWHTW)
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GWG
I was very affected when KevinMarks and Tantek asked questions I couldn't take them through while trying to help newcomers
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KevinMarks_
not meaning to pressure you GWG
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GWG
KevinMarks, not pressure
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KevinMarks_
just that I know how useful watching a first-time user is
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GWG
Motivation
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KevinMarks_
so always keen to do ti and document it
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GWG
I have a lot of irons in the fire to get there
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GWG
That is why I am always trying to get ideas to make things better
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GWG
Be back from the other side.
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channy.creation.net
edited /events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (-12) "/* 모임 신청 */" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /webactions (+841) "/* Brainstorming */ adding quick dump of ideas for different icon states" (view diff)
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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KevinMarks_
how do I get mf2 to use the title of an <a> for a property?
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KevinMarks_
or should I put an alt on the img instead?
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kylewm
snarfed: on facebook api issues,i feel like if we could find some of these posts "naturally" in the api, we'd have a better understanding of where they're getting ids from
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Loqi
kylewm: KevinMarks_ left you a message 2 hours, 15 minutes ago: woodwind didn't like my image only feed on svgur.com (shrewdness did))
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KevinMarks_
I have improved the feed since then, btw
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snarfed
kylewm: yeah, i thought that way too…but i found a few ids like that today via the api, and they still didn't fetch ok
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snarfed
e.g. the sixth list item in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/350#issuecomment-72967477
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kylewm
huh
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snarfed
:(
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kylewm
so, it doesn't even work for (what we assume is) their "expected" use case?
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kylewm
wth
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kylewm
why aren't there a bunch of blog posts "facebook v2.2 api irredemably broken"
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snarfed
i don't know. i expect we're missing something
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snarfed
maybe missing an oauth scope
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snarfed
and/or v2.x broadly don't support accessing arbitrary posts from other users, esp if they haven't "installed" your app, full stop
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kylewm
i clicked all the oauth permissions that are available in the graph api
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kylewm
and still getting the same stuff
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snarfed
lol
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kylewm
i'm incredulous that their documentation could be *so* wrong, if that's the case
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snarfed
i don't know that it is
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kylewm
(don't laugh)
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snarfed
i'm not sure they claim ids in the 'id' field are always fetchable as objects
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kylewm
so like, ben werd has authorized bridgy, shouldn't i be able to go to /his-user-id/posts and see something
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snarfed
maybe!
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kylewm
posts is empty, photos on the other hand is abounding with riches
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kylewm
this is maddening
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snarfed
you'd probably need to use his access token
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snarfed
sigh, even with his access token, /posts and /feed are empty
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snarfed
time to start writing that SO question?
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kylewm
ok but like if i go to /someone-else/home, it gives me a nice useful error message that i can't do that
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kylewm
why does it just give data: []
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kylewm
yeah let's do it
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kylewm
KevinMarks_: hmm, your feed looks good to me, must be something wrong wiht my parser :(
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kylewm
snarfed: would you like me to take a first pass?
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snarfed
/home is somewhat different from /feed and /posts
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snarfed
but meh
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snarfed
sure!
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snarfed
i figured it'd just be a few sentences, something like "how to derive usable object id from post URL with v2.x API?," a little elaboration and links, and then all of the research in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/350#issuecomment-72967477
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snarfed
minus oauth scope speculation because we know it's wrong
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snarfed
anyway. sure, thank you!
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kylewm
are you worried about publishing Gina or Evan's name/user ids?
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kylewm
KevinMarks_: it's parsing class="h-entry e-content" strangely... what is the intention there?
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snarfed
kylewm: not worried, but you're welcome to use test users instead of you want
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kylewm
snarfed: is the question even more fundamental? "is it possible to access a public post in the facebook api"
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kylewm
nah, disregard. that's stupid... i'll ask the specific question we want the answer to ;p
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snarfed
kylewm: no, you're right. at least, for other users, who haven't installed the app
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kylewm
if i start out on /me/home, i seem to have access to all the posts that show up there
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snarfed
hmm ok
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kylewm
(not very helpful)
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kylewm
snarfed: https://gist.github.com/kylewm/91f9510d8a0c49722e08
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snarfed
kylewm looks good! thanks!
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snarfed
a couple minor tweaks
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snarfed
line 6, its -> a post's and so of -> so
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snarfed
also consider linking appropriate phrases to fb docs for comment/like publishing and app scoped user ids (i think that one's earlier in the gh issue)
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kylewm
i can't figure out how to give you editing power
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snarfed
maybe link to the gh issue too
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snarfed
heh me neither. no matter, I'm done
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kylewm
ok cool
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snarfed
feel free to post after that
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snarfed
thank you!
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kylewm
posted: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28337331/facebook-graph-api-find-graph-object-from-post-url
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kylewm
(I would not say no to a little upvote love)
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GWG
yawns
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GWG
Looks like I missed some things
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acegiak
oh hey pfefferle!
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@wowzip
RT @channyun: 국내에서 인디웹(@indiewebcamp )의 취지에 공감하시는 독립 웹사이트 운영자 및 블로거들의 첫번째 모임을 하고자 합니다. 관심 있는 분들 참여해 주시길... https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (twtr.io/vtL4Qtg8cL)
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Loqi
[bridgy] kim hoe jang retweeted a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-07-homebrew-website-club-ko (https://twitter.com/wowzip/status/563231437982167040)
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