#indiewebcamp 2015-03-27

2015-03-27 UTC
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tantek bret, cool. The Wikipedia page is sufficient for that, and anyone (re)searching will find that. I'll wait for follow-up requests for more before I send any more links or photos.
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bret K
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ben_thatmustbeme looks good to me tantek
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: tantek left you a message 10 minutes ago: - wrote my answers to Boston Globe questions, please review #1 and #4 here: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-26/line/1427414090306
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tantek thanks ben_thatmustbeme !
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tantek ok with 3 reviews I'm shipping it
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ben_thatmustbeme cool
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ben_thatmustbeme if the article comes out i'll be sure to scan/photograph it
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tantek shipped!
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tantek what is PuSH?
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Loqi PubSubHubbub (PuSH) is a notification-based protocol for publishing and subscribing to feeds/streams in real time https://indiewebcamp.com/PuSH
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tantek.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+73) "/* Tantek */ clarify started PuSH 0.4 notifications" (view diff)
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tantek What is Swarm?
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Loqi Swarm is an app by Foursquare focused on checkins and showing nearby friends https://indiewebcamp.com/Swarm
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tantek.com edited /2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions (+107) "linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Swarm (+561) "Advertising use of friends photos, see also, fix heading levels" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015-03-23-boston-globe-questions (+0) "fix link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/Cambridge (+71) "/* Organizers */ done - boston globe questions" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2015/Cambridge/demos (+86) "IRC link" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2015/Cambridge/Demos (+85) "stub with IRC link" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /2015/Cambridge/demos to /2015/Cambridge/start-demos "need to distinguish on more than just capitalization"
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tantek.com edited /2015/Cambridge/Schedule (+0) "2014-2015 update" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /2015/Cambridge/Demos to /2015/Cambridge/hack-demos "disambiguate"
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tantek.com edited /2015/Cambridge/Planning (+404) "Post Camp To Do - session notes to wiki, demos to wiki (like wikis in past)" (view diff)
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tantek that's enough for now
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Loqi slack/tantek: Loqi, you still bridging the chativerses for us?
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tantek apparently. Thanks Loqi.
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Loqi you're welcome
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-03-11-homebrew-website-club (+260) "/* Photos */ photo from Benwerd" (view diff)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2015-084-hwc-sf.jpg]]""
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club (+70) "/* Photos */ add photo by EJ" (view diff)
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Loqi [bridgy] IndieWebCamp favorited a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge#Photos (https://twitter.com/t/status/578992359569928192)
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kylewm huh, kind of an interesting (I think) bug in both mf2py and php-mf2
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kylewm if i go to http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkylewm.com%2F2015%2F03%2Fhome-1
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kylewm the u-photo = "https://kylewm.com/imageproxy?url=...&w=600&h=600"
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kylewm but in the html content, it's over-escaped like "https://kylewm.com/imageproxy?url=...&w=600&h=600"
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kylewm ok actually i guess it is a bug in my html? html5 validator is saying the &'s are invalid... hmm...
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KartikPrabhu & should be valid separators fo query params no?
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: according to this, it seems like it has to be escapd even in urls http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4441594/w3c-markup-validator-ampersand-error
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KartikPrabhu weird
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KartikPrabhu so it seems all URLs have to encoded and decoded by mf2 parsers correctly?
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KartikPrabhu and somehow both mf2py and php-mf2 do it already!
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kylewm i'm sure html5lib is doing some magic for us in python
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: yes i guess so
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@GlobalRevLive RT @t: #indieweb: “As writers, we don’t need companies like Medium to tell us how to use the web. Or define ... http://tantek.com/2015/083/t2/indieweb-writers-web (twitter.com/_/status/581356115390291968)
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cweiske.de edited /PubSubHubbub (+250) "/* Hubs */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning #indiewebcamp
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pdurbin ben_thatmustbeme: mornin'
tantek, e-lima, friedcell, alanpearce, Erkan_Yilmaz, danlyke_, j12t, torrorist, frzn, davemenninger, Acidnerd, nloadholtes, gRegor`, zachdonovan, chalettu, wolftune, scor and lillian joined the channel
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gRegor` Howdy, indieweb. Quiet day.
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tantek gRegor`: sometimes a quiet day is not a bad thing
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gRegor` yep
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tantek in checking twitter results for "indie web" (with quotes and space) I'm glad Loqi doesn't pick those up - mostly noise, and very little of it has anything to do with this community
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Loqi grins profusely
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ben_thatmustbeme been hard at work today
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ben_thatmustbeme but I got a lot done this week
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ben_thatmustbeme was working on person-tagging this mroning
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tantek OTOH indieweb OR indiewebcamp is quite good
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: great!
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tantek any hiccups or awkwardness in the format / protocol?
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ben_thatmustbeme not yet. It seems pretty clean. hopefully i'll be testing it next week
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ben_thatmustbeme i got side tracked last night trying to fix some errors with comments
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ben_thatmustbeme updated to store all my "interactions" together
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ben_thatmustbeme rather than creating a new setup for tags, i merged all the duplicate code for tags, likes, reposts, mentions, comments into just "interactions" with a type specified on them
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ben_thatmustbeme so I have spent a lot of time with deduplication of code this week, but i should be able to add new functionality a lot faster after this
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tantek "interactions" instead of "responses"? ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme is a "like" a "response"
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tantek What is Kafka?
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ben_thatmustbeme before i stored likes and replys seperately
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Kafka" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Kafka&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-27%2Fline%2F1427477821112
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ben_thatmustbeme tries to remember where he stole the "interactions" terminology from
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tantek !tell bengo could you expand on what is Kafka on indiewebcamp.com/Kafka ? from https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/580923671746871296
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: "interactions" term is what I used to prefer calling them until snarfed and others convinced me that "responses" was better.
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tantek see /interactions and /responses
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, how long ago was that? responses says "Note: the term interactions is being more frequently used now to refer to the full set of things people to do with / to a post. This page mostly captures historical debate."
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tantek a while ago - I thought I noted my updated opinion there
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tantek what are interactions?
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Loqi interactions, in the context of the indieweb, refer to all the different ways and things people do to and with others posts https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions
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ben_thatmustbeme i feel like responses should not include reposts... questionable about likes
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ben_thatmustbeme a repost is in no way a response to the poster, its a share to their own followers
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tantek interesting
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ben_thatmustbeme also response implies a dialog, thus text, interactions does not
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ben_thatmustbeme gotta go back to work
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tantek.com edited /interactions (+356) "note some minor changes of opinion" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: when you have a moment, would be great if you could copy/paste your preference and reasonings above into: https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions#Alternatives
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kylewm.com edited /PubSubHubbub (+267) "/* Testing your PuSH Subscriber */" (view diff)
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@GlobalRevLive so whats yr angle? should probably put up a website . see https://indiewebcamp.com/ for ideas on publishing independently @ActivistNewsNet (twitter.com/_/status/581523890289143808)
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snarfed will probably regret (re)joining the semantics debate, but…
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snarfed ben_thatmustbeme: i hear you on the "response" connotations, but they may apply more to "reply" than "respond"
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snarfed replying does imply *to* someone, and usually text, but you can respond to something in lots of ways, and not necessarily to anyone
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voxpelli I have started using "interactions" as well – agree with ben_thatmustbeme that I wouldn't consider a share a response
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gRegor` On Tumblr, reposts typically show up on the original, "reblogged this"
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gRegor` So it seems like a light, pseudo-response
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tantek yeah
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gRegor` Looks like the wiki indicates a /repost is a 100% re-publication, sans additional comment, but I would consider a 100% repost + comment still a repost, and a form of response.
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tantek brings his semantic popcorn to watch and cheer.
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gRegor` But I understand others might just consider that a /quotation
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gRegor` 100% quotation + comment
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gRegor` Ooh, now I want popcorn
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ben_thatmustbeme haha
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Loqi ahahahaha
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gRegor` Easy, Loqi
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Loqi yeah!
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tantek gives Loqi some popcorn.
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Loqi eats the popcorn.
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ben_thatmustbeme so response is very different than even a like or tag
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gregorlove.com created /interaction (+26) "r" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme well, like i guess it is, but I feel like a tag is not a response so much as an action
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gRegor` How are you using "tag" there? Tagging a person?
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ben_thatmustbeme response makes me feel like its a conversation, but a tag or like are not intended to be conversation
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: that's meaningless. everything you do is an "action", thus it's pointless to call something specific an "action"
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ben_thatmustbeme tagging a person, or a category
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gRegor` Tagging a category?
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ben_thatmustbeme fair point tantek
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: historically tagging has been used as a form of conversation, e.f. consumating.com person-profile-tags
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gRegor` 's brain hurts
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tantek drops some empirical anecdotalism beats.
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: you might as well call it an "activity" ;)
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gRegor` Ooh, then you could put those activities in a stream
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gRegor` :)
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, lets formulate this another way, the way i see it "responses" can have a reply. But try to reply to someone's action of "liking" or "tagging (a person)" in FB
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ben_thatmustbeme or G+, or twitter
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ben_thatmustbeme or instagram
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gRegor` Heh, "I like your like of X"? Meta
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tantek likes snarfed's reasoning "you can respond to something in lots of ways, and not necessarily to anyone" http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-27/line/1427483931982
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ben_thatmustbeme exactly, I was debating this while working on tag, and i realized I display likes and comments on my like posts... and I don't think that makes sense at all
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ben_thatmustbeme I'll probably remove it
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tantek ^^^ is that a like, a quote, a reply, or all the above? ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme like and quote, and a reply to me, but NOT to snarfed
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tantek why not a multi-reply?
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ben_thatmustbeme its not intended for a conversation with snarfed. is a question of speaking direction
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ben_thatmustbeme if you cite someone you are not responding to them, you are using their content to share in another conversation
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tantek right. it's a *like-of* to snarfed's post, but *in-reply-to* ben_thatmustbeme's post.
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tantek multiple webmention targets
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tantek er, multiple webmentions ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme correct, so from snafed's side, that isn't a response
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tantek it is, because he considers likes to be responses
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ben_thatmustbeme i think the real issue here is different definitions of "response".
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ben_thatmustbeme "response" can be just "reaction" which means any action that in any way references your post is a response
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ben_thatmustbeme another example would be a mention, same thing, if someone happens to mention a post of mine, i don't consider that in any way "responding" to my post
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ben_thatmustbeme i use response in the "correspond" way, not "reaction" way
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ben_thatmustbeme a like I could see either way
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tantek yet we already have "reply" for that (in the "correspond" way)
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tantek and it's a more precisely specific term for the meaning, thus it is preferred
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ben_thatmustbeme because there is an implicit "i agree" sent back to the author
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tantek likes can mean all sorts of different things, not just agreement, but sometimes sympathy
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ben_thatmustbeme i was using it as an example, but yes, there are a lot of implied meanings
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ben_thatmustbeme but it can be directed toward the conversation
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tantek I'm leaning toward: responses = replies + reactions
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voxpelli I think its a matter of whether the page is the dominant target of the action taken – either the indirect object of the sentence or in the lack of an indirect object, the direct object
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tantek voxpelli: thus would you exclude mentions from all of those terms?
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tantek perhaps then we also say: references = responses + mentions
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't think mentions really falls in to reactions either. the action you are reacting to may not be the content you are mentioning
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voxpelli I would say: interactions = responses/replies + mentions
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tantek voxpelli: by your same reasoning I'd say a mention is not an *inter*action at all.
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tantek nor would any other plain "reference" e.g. bibliography
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voxpelli tantek: fair enough
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ben_thatmustbeme oh the conversation i have sparked
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voxpelli unless you consider referenicing something to be a way of interacting with it
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ben_thatmustbeme s/conversating/debate/
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ben_thatmustbeme the webmention makes it an interaction. a person does not need to send the webmention
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ben_thatmustbeme the notification of it is the interaction
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voxpelli that's true
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: nah, you didn't spark it, you just re-ignited it
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ben_thatmustbeme someone else could send the webmention, but its still someone notifying you of it
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tantek the webmention is just plumbing
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voxpelli no matter who sent it, the receiver have been passive and someone has interacted with it and told it that something has happened
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voxpelli so from the perspective of the receiver its something different to something it would have found through eg. a crawler – interaction rather than reference?
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tantek the assumption of "someone" is flawed, it could be a bot
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tantek discovering the link / sending the webmentino
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tantek s/webmentino/webmention
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Loqi tantek meant to say: discovering the link / sending the webmention
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tantek what is a webmentino?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "webmentino" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=webmentino&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-27%2Fline%2F1427487878347
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tantek webmentino is the fundamental packet of a webmention
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loqi.me created /webmentino (+79) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-27/line/1427487878347 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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voxpelli for the sake of the term I think we can assume that even bots, like brid.gy, have a clear intent with their pinging
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ben_thatmustbeme i am actually thinking "reactions" might be better now. as the only thing I am showing are other actions that either are in response to my action or in reference to my action
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tantek I don't think we can assign any conscious intent to any bots
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ben_thatmustbeme bots require someone to set them up, there was a conscious intent to send "all future posts" for example
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voxpelli ben_thatmustbeme: hmm, isn't it possible to mentioning something without reacting to something? I'm not sure myself whether it is
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tantek voxpelli: it is. especially when you've already written a blog post (thus it's not a reaction), and then *afterwards* go through and find related/earlier posts on the same subject to list them.
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tantek or heck, when you link to comments on your post
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tantek linking to a reaction is itself not a reaction so much as part of automatically handling the reaction
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tantek plenty of use-cases of mentions that aren't a human reaction in any way
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ben_thatmustbeme thats just a delayed reaction "then *afterwards* go through and find related/earlier posts "
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ben_thatmustbeme the edit is the reaction
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tantek the edit happens before the post
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tantek as just a latter step in the authoring process
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tantek point is, the post content itself is *not* a reaction to any of those links added later
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm
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ben_thatmustbeme true, it is not
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tantek just like a post is not a reaction to its own comments that it happens to link to because it received webmentions for them
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tantek though that's even more automatic / not human
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ben_thatmustbeme in that same arguement the mention is not in anyway a "response"
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ben_thatmustbeme they are specifically mentioning the original post, thus interacting with it?
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voxpelli so I'm coming around to thinking that we have: referenced_by = (interactions + mentions)
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voxpelli Where interactions are: interactions = direct interactions (eg. like, reply) + indirect interactions (eg. share)
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tantek voxpelli: would you consider a quotation a form of indirect interaction as well?
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@dave_menninger Micropub - IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub?utm_content=bufferbc338&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/581555361846595584)
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voxpelli tantek: not sure, as it would be an indirect interaction of just a part of the page
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voxpelli tantek: an indirect interaction of a fragment URL?
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ben_thatmustbeme going to catch the train
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tantek voxpelli: or even the whole post permalink, since a quotation is (typically) a subset of a repost (share)
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voxpelli yeah, can probably be both depending on how its implemented – quotations can have so many forms
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voxpelli all references/interactions are tricky if their primary focus is a fragmention – should eg. a like of a paragraph be considered a like of the page of the paragraph as well or just of the paragraph
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tantek such ambiguity is ok
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tantek even a "like" of a blog post does not imply that the *entire* blog post was like, just that it was "overall" and perhaps only some or a few or one paragraph thereof
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tantek s/was like/was liked
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Loqi tantek meant to say: even a "like" of a blog post does not imply that the *entire* blog post was liked, just that it was "overall" and perhaps only some or a few or one paragraph thereof
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@CaptainKurtis @withknown @colinsalter It's sort of reverse of what you are askin for, but @hongpong is working on a Drupal plugin to add webmentions. (twitter.com/_/status/581557665739857920)
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tantek sending or receiving or both?
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tantek voxpelli: I keep going back/forth between interactions vs. responses as the catchall thing that covers replies and reactions (like, bookmark, repost)
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tantek is an RSVP a form of reply (I think so), or just a reaction?
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voxpelli I think it's a reply – it targets the event post
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tantek that's what it feels like to me too
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tantek it's a *special* reply
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tantek whereas an /invitation feels more like a reaction than a reply
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tantek where A invites B to C's event
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voxpelli I feel that's a "reply" to B but a "mention" to C
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tantek it's not a reply to be because it's unsolicited
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tantek it's likely a *reaction* to C, that is, A saw C's event and thought, hey, B might want to go
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tantek it's not a reply to B because it's in-reply-to anything in particular of B's.
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tantek s/in-reply-to anything/not in-reply-to anything
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Loqi tantek meant to say: it's not a reply to B because it's not in-reply-to anything in particular of B's.
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voxpelli "reply" is a bad word, yeah, but it would be a "direct interaction" with B and an "indirect interaction" with C
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tantek it's a direct interaction with B's homepage/website, but not with any of B's posts
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voxpelli yep, I wonder how one should mark that up to distinguish it from a mere mention of B
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tantek it's in the /invitation markup already
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tantek in simplest form: <a class="u-invitee h-card" href="… home page URL … ">...
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voxpelli oh, I have to add support for invitations then also
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tantek sending or receiving?
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tantek do you have do events already?
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tantek or do you just want to know when you've been invited?
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voxpelli receiving, my webmention endpoint should handle receiving as many types of interactions as possible
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tantek ah right - your webmention proxy!
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tantek that would be a great place to start gathering experience / stats on homepage webmentions
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voxpelli yeah – I know at least http://www.kevinmarks.com/ has quite a few
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tantek voxpelli: here is a brief list: https://indiewebcamp.com/homepage#Webmention_to_homepage
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voxpelli tantek: at Twitter a Homepage mention can also be the start of a conversation – how would that very first conversation-starter mark up his or her mention?
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tantek what is a conversation starter?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "conversation starter" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=conversation+starter&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-03-27%2Fline%2F1427490470528
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tantek voxpelli: perhaps you could start with a definition and link to an example such Tweet!
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voxpelli I will try
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gRegor` catches up on the terminology conversation
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gRegor` I don't think I'm any closer to understanding/having a strong preference. :)
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gRegor` I'll stick with past-gRegor for now, thinking "responses" is adequate. http://indiewebcamp.com/interactions#Responses
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tantek no I don't think so.
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tantek er oops that was a mis-scroll response :P
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tantek meant to say
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tantek gRegor`: my current preference: responses = replies + reactions
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tantek and references = responses + mentions
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gRegor` What is reactions?
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Loqi interactions, in the context of the indieweb, refer to all the different ways and things people do to and with others posts https://indiewebcamp.com/reactions
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tantek heh I should fix that
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gRegor` :)
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ben_thatmustbeme I'll stick with interactions. It's the links between actions of any type
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tantek oh it scrolls to the right place - just needs its own page
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: if you've decided to "stick with" then add your reasoning here: https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions#Interactions
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kodfabrik.se created /conversation_starter (+374) "Created a stub, will add example afterwards" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme Other problem I am hitting is how to do tagging by micropub
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ben_thatmustbeme Specifically field names
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gRegor` So references = replies + reactions + mentions? (Just unpacking it a bit)
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tantek one to one mapping from the markup right?
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ben_thatmustbeme I will when not on mobile
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tantek gRegor`: yes I think that makes sense
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tantek and everything is in exactly one of the categories of replies, reactions, mentions
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ben_thatmustbeme Tantek. The problem of that is tags are embedded in a category
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tantek p-category
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tantek what's the problem?
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ben_thatmustbeme And even more messy. The coords and shape
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kodfabrik.se edited /conversation_starter (+63) "Added an example tweet" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: hmmm - thus the mess is from changing the microformats2 JSON output affecting micropub
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ben_thatmustbeme Its trying to form encode embedded items
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tantek that way lies dragons
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ben_thatmustbeme I know
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tantek embedded items are supposed to be URLs
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tantek e.g. u-category
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tantek or u-invitee
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KartikPrabhu the whole embedding thing can be done by the micropub endpoint no?
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KartikPrabhu the client can send a bunch of properties (flat) and the endpoint can decide what to embed?
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ben_thatmustbeme It's very messy KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu i mean micropub does not send tags as being embedded in a h-entry anyway
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ben_thatmustbeme I could send them flat but it breaks the standard we have been following for micropub
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KartikPrabhu what is micropub
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Loqi Micropub is an open API standard that is used to create posts on one's own domain using third-party clients https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub
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ben_thatmustbeme Tantek I don't think it's sane to do them as urls.
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: everything embedded is a URL - what's the problem with that?
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ben_thatmustbeme Look at examples on person-tag
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ben_thatmustbeme What is person-tag?
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Loqi A person tag (AKA people tag) is a special kind of tag that refers to a specific person by URL rather than just a word or phrase, and is done as an explicit tag by the user, beyond just mentioning a person via hyperlink / h-card https://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag
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kodfabrik.se created /Template:voxpelli (+134) "Creating a user template for myself" (view diff)
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: hence why I said "e.g. u-category" above :)
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bear if anyone hasn't heard about the Slack security incident -- http://slackhq.com/post/114696167740/march-2015-security-incident-and-launch-of-2fa
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ben_thatmustbeme "Basic Person Tagging example"
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ben_thatmustbeme I would have to create an hcard for every location within every photo I want to tag people
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tantek note that Slack's blog is on Tumblr
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: no you don't because their home page has that h-card
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: no not really. You can send the URL of the person and the micropub endpoint would create the h-card
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: yeah that example at the top should be u-category
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KartikPrabhu from the URL or from some contact list
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tantek just as we did for /invitation and u-invitee
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ben_thatmustbeme What is invitation
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ben_thatmustbeme Links make mobile easier :)
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Loqi An invitation is an optional feature of an event post (an event with invitations), or a reply to an event post that also notifies a list of invitees that they've been invited to the event, or a special case of that, an RSVP to an event that also invites additional people to it https://indiewebcamp.com/invitation
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (+143) "use u-category like u-invitee, note examples use previous markup" (view diff)
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tantek good catch ben_thatmustbeme
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KartikPrabhu a good question is suppose I have a note which I want to tag with a keyword like "selfie" and then also tag a person like "http://tantek.com" does micropub distinguish them?
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KartikPrabhu if not, is there an algo that the endpoint should use?
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tantek you can do both, p-category for the "selfie" string and u-category for the URL
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kodfabrik.se edited /interactions (+253) "Added my +1 for interactions" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes but the micropub client would send both as category without the p or the u
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ben_thatmustbeme What about other attributes? Coords and shape?
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ben_thatmustbeme Those are really odd
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (+0) "/* Basic Person Tagging example */ more u-category instead of p-category to emphasize the meaning of the URL referencing the tag" (view diff)
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voxpelli tantek: could you ping me when you've added your responses = replies + reactions and references = responses + mentions somewhere? added support for interactions now – but I like the separation of yours so would like to +1 that as well
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ben_thatmustbeme Need to not only be able to do multiple u-category but also have attributes that are specific to those
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ben_thatmustbeme Which is where form encoding is starting to fall apart for me
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: so area tags is really where you're finding problems
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ben_thatmustbeme So I suppose any future items that have additional attributes
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tantek.com edited /reactions (+585) "draft based on what appears to be common understanding" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /interactions (+81) "/* Reactions */ link to main, change summary" (view diff)
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kodfabrik.se uploaded /File:indiewebcamp-square.min.svg "Square variant of the {{logo}}"
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tantek.com edited /interactions (+129) "update dfn, describe relation to replies and reactions, cluster specific examples" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /interactions (+17) "dfn responses" (view diff)
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tantek what are interactions
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Loqi interactions, or responses, in the context of the indieweb, refer to all the different ways and things people explicitly do to and with others posts: https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions
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kodfabrik.se edited /File:indiewebcamp-square.min.svg (+0) (view diff)
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kodfabrik.se uploaded /File:indiewebcamp-square.min.png "PNG variant of [[File:indiewebcamp-square.min.svg]]"
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kodfabrik.se edited /buttons (+242) "Adding a square logo" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /interactions (+51) "expand dfn" (view diff)
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tantek what are interactions?
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Loqi interactions, or responses, in the context of the indieweb, refer to all the different ways and things people explicitly do to and with others posts, from written replies to quick likes, in otherwords responses = replies + reactions https://indiewebcamp.com/interactions
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tantek voxpelli: ^^^ there's a start
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voxpelli tantek: nice, reading now
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voxpelli looks great!
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tantek voxpelli: see also what are reactions
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Loqi reactions refer to the subset of responses/interactions with a post that are quicker, more impulsive, but still a conscious act, typically a simple UI gesture without writing any content, such as likes, reposts, bookmarks, or perhaps multiple simple UI gestures, such as selection a text range and posting a quotation of part of a post, or picking a person from a list to post an invitation as a response to seeing an event https://indiewebcamp.com/reactions
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voxpelli On a slightly other topic: Just uploaded a square variant of the logo to the wiki if anyone wants to do like me and eg. add the wiki to Alfred.app – nice to have a good icon for it then
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tantek I think the wiki already has a square icon
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tantek e.g. if you add to homescreen you'll see it
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@NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata #smallbusiness #analytics direct apis are great, but b2b connections hide your data - don't be afraid to get in there w/ csv (twitter.com/_/status/581576385493258240)
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voxpelli tantek: I would probably describe "reactions" as those actions that only indirectly targets the page – unlike replies that directly targets
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voxpelli tantek: couldn't find a link to any highres square logo
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tantek voxpelli: they're in the <link>s in the <head>
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tantek looks like apple-touch-icon-*
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voxpelli found it now, wanted a more square version than that – to preserve more detail :)
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tantek voxpelli: "indirectly targets" vs. "directly targets" sounds a bit abstract and plumbingy
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@NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata #owncloud self-hosting version of #dropbox but is the hassle worth it? How do you weigh privacy concerns vs access problems? (twitter.com/_/status/581577079826870272)
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tantek hence why I used a more user-centric distinction about "simple UI gesture" without writing any content
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voxpelli tantek: I'm thinking that it might map a bit to the grammar of the language? http://www.write.com/writing-guides/general-writing/grammar/direct-and-indirect-objects/
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tantek again, grammars can be abstract
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tantek hence I prefer the specific definition related to user actions
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tantek and amount of user time / effort / cognition put into it
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tantek that feels more "measurable" than any notion of (in)directness, or any linguistic abstraction
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tantek using one abstraction to define another doesn't actually get you any closer to understanding :P
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voxpelli maybe, but just asking oneself questions like: "What am I doing? I'm doing X", "What am I X:ing? It's Y", "What am I X:ing Y to? That's Z" – that answers action, direct target and indirect target
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voxpelli s/target/object/
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Loqi voxpelli meant to say: maybe, but just asking oneself questions like: "What am I doing? I'm doing X", "What am I X:ing? It's Y", "What am I X:ing Y to? That's Z" – that answers action, direct object and indirect object
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tantek it answers a question, I'm just not convinced it answers any kind of a useful question
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tantek whereas basing it on user effort / cognition seems more, real
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tantek such linguistic categorization is only marginally more useful than say categorizing based on the number of vowels
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tantek whereas categorizing by user effort / cognition is directly useful to user interface design of displaying all these different things
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tantek and the buttons that create them
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@svgur_com RT @screengui_de: Dies ist die neue Screenguide. Titelthema: #IndieWeb von @pfefferle. Ab Montag im Handel. Im Abo auch jetzt schon. http:/… (twitter.com/_/status/581586041854824448)
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@NorthCreekSoft #ownyourdata looking for cloud tools- building a curated list- fave this and I'll add you to my coaching sessions #apieconomy (twitter.com/_/status/581588824326742016)
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@davidmead Somehow deleted few IMG from my blog, @withknown WP importer not working for me. How I love you #indieweb ;-) http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/somehow-deleted-few-img-from-my-blog-withknown-wp-importer (twitter.com/_/status/581598248223141888)
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@davidmead Oh and now it keeps logging me out! (posting this thru Twitter) /cc @withknown #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/581599681190473728)
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