#indiewebcamp 2015-04-09

2015-04-09 UTC
pauloppenheim, benwerd, bengo and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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Loqi
aaronpk: cweiske left you a message 3 hours, 52 minutes ago: switchboard require people to register to use it? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-08/line/1428524352883
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Loqi
pong
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aaronpk
cweiske: no, what would give you that impression? I thought the docs made it clear
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KartikPrabhu
last HWC Chi online
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kylewm
hello from the Creamery
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GWG
Hello, all.
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GWG
bear: Good news, I don't use that plugin.
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acegiak
Got another email from google today telling me about a phishing page hidden away amongst my wordpress system files
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tantek
greetings from SF!
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Loqi
tantek: rhiaro left you a message 2 hours, 59 minutes ago: I only do post types for likes, shares and reposts, I already said I'm definitely against types based on content - this is more types based on intent. But im rethinking now anyway http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-08/line/1428532887180
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tantek
we are The Creamery
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tantek
about 7 of us
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acegiak
Is the creamery a hivemind?
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GWG
acegiak: That's nice of hem
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tantek
it's a cafe
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acegiak
GWG: yeah. it's just annoying that I have no idea where the intrusion point is
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GWG
acegiak: Keep me posted. The rumors are WordPress is under attack.
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tantek
yikes
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tantek
like the .com ?
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acegiak
GWG: I've had multiple intrusions before. I'm so bad at security and cars and it wears me out
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tantek
or is there a new WordPress zeroday?
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acegiak
tantek: a popular plugin allows for cross site scripting is the big headline atm
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tantek
checks logs
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rascul
there was something recently about super cache
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acegiak
yeah that's the culprit
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acegiak
but not the problem in my case
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acegiak
for me it was files inserted into my wordpress admin css directory
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: if you want to have astatic site you can use what you want then use @aaronpk's spiderpig to make a static version
(twitter.com/_/status/585982929572077568)
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acegiak
tantek: yeah
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tantek
can you share the names of the inserted files?
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acegiak
things like aol.php gmail.php etc along side it
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acegiak
the midnight directory normally just houses css files for one of the admin themes
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tantek
good to document at least some coarse detection methods like that
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acegiak
but I've seen similar things on my server before
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tantek
i.e. if you have such files, something has gone wrong
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: personal website update: I am fed up with maintaining all the little api links - twitter, Facebook etc
(twitter.com/_/status/585984754488647681)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: I built something new that lets me use the with known syndication system with my personal Known site
(twitter.com/_/status/585984869672558593)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: twitter, Facebook, linked in etc make you build an app for each domain - what I've built lets you have one app on Known
(twitter.com/_/status/585985322590273536)
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tantek
what is wordpress security?
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Loqi
One of the most important things for new users to do is to properly secure their Wordpress installation https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress_Security
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @webrecorder_io: I work in the fired of web archiving and wonder if it can be helpful to what you are doing
(twitter.com/_/status/585986161212055553)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @webrecorder_io: I used to work on internet archive's wayback machine, now I have webrecorder.io
(twitter.com/_/status/585986376732114944)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @webrecorder_io: it is a high fidelity archive of what you are browsing and caches client side
(twitter.com/_/status/585986487709204481)
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tantek.com
edited /WordPress_Security (+276) "Plugin Vulnerabilities - WP-Super-Cache zeroday XSS"
(view diff)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @webrecorder_io: this could be useful to archive what you read
(twitter.com/_/status/585987117437886465)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @webrecorder_io: just by loading a url it can archive it.
(twitter.com/_/status/585987198710898688)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: this could be useful for caching copies of things you link to as you post - so you get a stashed copy of what you saw
(twitter.com/_/status/585987421864665088)
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tantek.com
edited /WordPress_Security (+394) "Forensics / wordpress admin css extra files"
(view diff)
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@BillSeitz
RT @kevinmarks: An idea for expanding micropub to hosted blogs, written up by @schnarfed https://snarfed.org/micropub-for-hosted-blogs #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/585987999457943554)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: there was a wordpress 0-day attack today - millions of websites running wp-supercache has an css exploit
(twitter.com/_/status/585988022266634240)
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tantek
XSS not CSS. sheesh
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: there was a wordpress 0-day attack today - millions of websites running wp-supercache has an XSS exploit
(twitter.com/_/status/585988167737696256)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @LaurenJBuchman: is this an example of everyone running the same thing and it being a widespread problem
(twitter.com/_/status/585988450945540097)
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@RegIndependentV
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: there was a wordpress 0-day attack today - millions of websites running wp-supercache has an XSS exploit
(twitter.com/_/status/585988464451133440)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: yes this is the monoculture problem
(twitter.com/_/status/585988495237328896)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: @benward discovered that he had a cache of #microformats t-shirts - I want to give one to @benwerd and @kylewmahan as thanks
(twitter.com/_/status/585988693627953152)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: ben coded an open source CMS called idno which is now Known at https://withknown.com/
(twitter.com/_/status/585988950696800256)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: @warrenellis recommended @withknown as part of his stack because he didn't have to change his other tools
(twitter.com/_/status/585989251008962560)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: @kylewmahan has built redwind, woodwind his reader and now brid.gy with @schnarfed
(twitter.com/_/status/585989431041077249)
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tantek
and has contributed to mf2py
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@CaseofStripes
Data to the People! #ownyourdata @mickcorrell @eMERGENetwork_ The Healing Power of Your Own Medical Records http://www.nytimes.com
(twitter.com/_/status/585989675891957760)
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tantek
not claiming that ownyourdata will help you heal thyself
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @joshuajuran: I'm working on free mount which is a hybrid file access and now a language called V
(twitter.com/_/status/585989887087763456)
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GWG
tantek: That would be a great claim though
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tantek
GWG, ownyourpowercrystals
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tantek
KevinMarks has an update from IIW
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tantek
the 20th one
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tantek
had a great time getting people up & running on IndieWeb sites
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tantek
there was also the usual IIW nonsense, bitcoin will solve everything et.c
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GWG
Why will bitcoin solve everything?
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: I've been at #iiw this week and it was nice to demo https://withknown.com/ & http://reader.kylewm.com and have it work
(twitter.com/_/status/585992162707374080)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: and have the #iiw people understand what we were getting at with indieweb protocols
(twitter.com/_/status/585992240394346496)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: I have now made my likes on my site POSSE to twitter
(twitter.com/_/status/585992311739437056)
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GWG
"Why should you post bookmark posts? Good question. People seem to have reasons for doing so. (please feel free to replace this rhetorical question with actual reasoning)" - I need help with this.
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tantek
using Bridgy Publish
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: twitter now has comments on tweets by creating a link to a tweet and displaying the tweet
(twitter.com/_/status/585992539376898048)
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GWG
tantek: I know. I'm curious what people's reasons are.
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: @rhiaro got micro pub working on her own site and then got likes, reposts and bookmarks working in a few days
(twitter.com/_/status/585992722613456896)
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@Shoq
RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: @rhiaro got micro pub working on her own site and then got likes, reposts and bookmarks working in a fe…
(twitter.com/_/status/585992770466242560)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: @rhiaro is the tenth server codebase that implements micro pub, which is a good number
(twitter.com/_/status/585992920387432448)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: also, @Schnarfed wrote a post explaining how we could bridge micro pub to other hosts https://snarfed.org/micropub-for-hosted-blogs
(twitter.com/_/status/585994045828259841)
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@kevinmarks
notes from tonights Homebrew Website Club on my own site: http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-04-08.html #indieweb #iiw
(twitter.com/_/status/585997363497402368)
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tantek.com
edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:2015-098-hwc-sf.jpg]]""
(view diff)
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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GWG
Trying to use snarfed's micropub code to create a Twitter like intent system to help in my own my bookmarks plan.
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@kevinmarks
@LeaVerou view source on this, and note that the RSVPs were sent to it with webmentions https://kylewm.com/2015/04/homebrew-website-club
(twitter.com/_/status/586022644220166144)
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post-by-email
uploaded /File:20150409-060442.gif "Uploaded via email by exclusive design printers <exclusivedesignprinte*@*ail.com>"
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KartikPrabhu1
what's that upload?
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KartikPrabhu
maybe Loqi should link to uploads page too
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aaronpk
omg spam
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GWG
!tell acegiak Are you up for testing something for me and giving some feedback?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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hmans
Good morning, indieweb
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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acegiak
GWG: as long as it won't break things, sure!
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Loqi
acegiak: GWG left you a message 1 hour, 1 minute ago: Are you up for testing something for me and giving some feedback? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-08/line/1428561108622
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cweiske
!tell aaronpk, currently I can use switchboard to run a DOS attack on a given URL by trying to subscribe to it many times. how can we prevent that?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@rhiaro
Current solutions: granular privacy controls - too cumbersome #lovelace2015 #ownyourdata
(twitter.com/_/status/586120513275174912)
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@rhiaro
... But there's no universal definition, so you never know what you're going to get when you sign up for something (needs moar #ownyourdata)
(twitter.com/_/status/586121032676827136)
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@voxpelli
@poetica Some on Jekyll / GitHub Pages, some on custom Node.js applications + in the future hopefully some through IndieWeb Micropub as well
(twitter.com/_/status/586130269968695296)
j12t, cweiske and scor joined the channel
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aaronpk
cweiske: hmm
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Loqi
aaronpk: cweiske left you a message 3 hours, 30 minutes ago: I can use switchboard to run a DOS attack on a given URL by trying to subscribe to it many times. how can we prevent that? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-09/line/1428569014222
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aaronpk
I suppose I could rate limit how often I ping any external URL, even limiting to once per second would be enough
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aaronpk
but enabling a DOS attack isn't that great a worry compared to enabling a DDOS attack
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cweiske
it's a reflected attack
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cweiske
which makes it worse IMO
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cweiske
also, I could make switchboard fetch my URL which simply spams you with gigabytes of HTTP body content
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cweiske
but you do HEAD requests
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cweiske
so I'd have to generate gigabytes of headres
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aaronpk
you can already send me gigabytes of POST request to any URL
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cweiske
hm .right
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cweiske
btw, I've implemented exponential backoff for sending out notifications
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aaronpk
here's an interesting attack, taking advantage of light pings, or assuming some/all subscribers would re-fetch the original URL despite receiving a fat ping:
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aaronpk
1) set up a legitimate feed as a publisher
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aaronpk
2) wait for lots of subscribers to subscribe
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Loqi
!calc 2) wait for lots of subscribers to subscribe
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aaronpk
3) make your feed URL a 301 redirect to the victim's website
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aaronpk
4) send a publish ping to your hub
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cweiske
yep. that's why push requires fat pings
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aaronpk
exponential backoff when notifications fail?
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cweiske
when the subscriber is down
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cweiske
or whatever
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aaronpk
yeah I did that too
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aaronpk
starting with 15 seconds, doubling each failure
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aaronpk
gives up after 8 tries
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cweiske
i've hard-coded a list of times
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aaronpk
my hard-coded list is 15, 30, 60, 120, 240, 480, 960, 1920 seconds
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cweiske
phubb now also uses last-modified, etag and a hash on the content to determine if the content changes. if it didn't change, it doesn't sent notifications out
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aaronpk
Nice! I only check a hash of the content right now
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GWG
Good morning
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GWG
acegiak: I don't think it will break anything.
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GWG
acegiak: In the Github version of Post Kinds, I've added a new feature I'm testing.
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@TessClare78
Looking for feedback on potential book covers for "The Bad Specimens" #vote #design #book #indieauthor http://www.designcrowd.com/vote/indieauthorneedsabookcovervotingpoll
(twitter.com/_/status/586183108849840128)
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@kevinmarks
@EightBitPony it turns feeds into web pages with indieweb-friendly microformats. It puts podcast audio/video inline in html5 players
(twitter.com/_/status/586185825915834369)
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell tantek any reason your contact page isn't written as an h-card?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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gRegor`
Morning, indieweb
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GWG
Anyone around have a reply endpoint?
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david.shanske.com
edited /Post_Kinds_Plugin (+11) "/* Technical */"
(view diff)
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kylewm
GWG: what's a reply endpoint?
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GWG
Configuration action URLs
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GWG
Configurable action URLs, excuse me
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GWG
Web action handlers.
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GWG
Etc.
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GWG
Yes. I'm working on those.
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GWG
Trying to see how people are doing them
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GWG
I liberally borrowed from snarfed's micropub code which liberally borrowed from pfefferle's webmention code
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GWG
I'm trying for a simple alternative to micropub when appropriate.
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GWG
So this just requires you to be logged into your WordPress installation, as opposed to Indieauth
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rhiaro
aaronpk: for me monocle shows all of your posts twice (only yours)
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kylewm
rhiaro: you may be subscried to both http://aaronparecki.com and https://?
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rhiaro
Oh, maybe
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rhiaro
I'll check later
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rhiaro
Apologies on advance aaronpk if this is my own fault
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gRegor`
GWG: If you need to be logged into your WordPress, what's the advantage of micropub?
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gRegor`
s/of/of using/
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Loqi
gRegor` meant to say: GWG: If you need to be logged into your WordPress, what's the advantage of using micropub?
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GWG
I'm not using micropub
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bengo
I got distracted at work yesterday and missed HWC SF, but hope to come to the next one!
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bengo
I freed up after 7:30 and went to a cloud beers meet up and ran into someone who knew about IndieWeb though. Alex: https://twitter.com/alexwilliams
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benwerd
snarfed and kylewm: I have a quick question about bridgy integration. What's the best way to record auth state? We're getting a lot of complaints that the Bridgy page in Known settings doesn't reflect if you've connected or not
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benwerd
Is there somewhere we should be looking for this? No worries if not - we can just change the page style for now to make it look less like activation buttons
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snarfed
benwerd: hmm, interesting q
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snarfed
you can get partially there by fetching their bridgy user page and seeing if you get a 200 or a 404
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snarfed
that doesn't tell you if their access token has expired or not though (e.g. FB's 2 month limit)
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snarfed
for that, an even uglier hack would be to look for either '<span class="glyphicon glyphicon-pause" …' or 'This account was disconnected' in the HTML for a 200
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benwerd
OK. I'll experiment with that :)
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benwerd
Thanks!
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snarfed
and you could reasonably cache that state for days
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snarfed
also feel free to file an issue if you want a more API-like endpoint
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kylewm
snarfed: hey another bridgy question, I have three comments that it tries to backfeed every time it polls
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kylewm
from the logs it looks like it thinks the content changed
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kylewm
is that familiar?
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snarfed
kylewm: yeah it does do that now
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kylewm
yeah but the content hasn't changed
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kylewm
it just thinks it has every time
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snarfed
hmm ok
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@hmans
Diese latente Sorge, dass die Summary des einzigen Indieweb-Talks auf http://nebenan.hamburg nicht ironisch gemeint sein könnte
(twitter.com/_/status/586236499894652930)
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snarfed
are you accepting the new wms each time?
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kylewm
no, it never found the original
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snarfed
i don't quite follow
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snarfed
which silo?
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snarfed
mind sending example links?
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kylewm
it tries to re-propagate those first three comments every time it polls
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kylewm
it's not hurting anything
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snarfed
moving to dm
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kylewm
just odd
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@jdunck
@kevinmarks do you have a BestOf indieweb list somewhere? I need to do some reading. :P
(twitter.com/_/status/586240307173400576)
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Loqi
[mention] Kyle Mahan commented '@jdunck lots here indiewebcamp.com/Posts_about_the_IndieWeb; I particularly recommend kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog for a not-...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (https://kylewm.com/2015/04/jdunck-lots-here-http-indiewebcamp-com-posts-about)
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 90 karma
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GWG
I'm trying to figure out if there is a security risk in letting posts be created on my site by a simple http://example.com/?intent=bookmark&url=http...
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ben_thatmustbeme
(pingback) eh?
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ben_thatmustbeme
I'm thinking of just removing permashort citations from my site
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tantek
good afternoon ben_thatmustbeme
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Loqi
tantek: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 4 hours, 28 minutes ago: any reason your contact page isn't written as an h-card? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-09/line/1428592614755
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bengo
@GWG if what you want is for anyone to be able to add to your site, no security risk.
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ben_thatmustbeme
nice comic from Kartik
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tantek
btw benwerd is at IIW today - any news?
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bengo
If you want to curate/moderate what actually gets published, then you probably want unauthenticated 'bookmark requests' to go into a Curation Queue for you to approve
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benwerd
kevinmarks is, I'm not in the end, sadly
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benwerd
(still fighting my way through an immoveable product release)
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tantek
benwerd - didn't make it down?
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tantek
what is email?
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benwerd
no, not this time
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Loqi
Email is a decentralized, non-web messaging transport https://indiewebcamp.com/email
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bengo
Also any time you're committing your server to doing CPU work on unauthenticated requests, you've got a complexity problem to reason about.
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bengo
In what way is email non-web?
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bengo
non-http?
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tantek
non-URL
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tantek
and mostly non-HTML
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tantek
so, in all the ways
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bengo
Not web
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bengo
URLs == web
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bengo
email addresses != web.[2]
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bengo
(geez read the wiki, bengo)
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bengo
email supports HTML just great. It's the clients that ruin it all :)
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bengo
Makes me so sad.
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bengo
If I send an HTML email to a gmail user, they literally rewrite the entire thing to make it... worse
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bret
!tell snarfed 500 errors on huffduff video
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tantek
bengo - email supports presentational HTML - it doens't really do anything with the *hyper*text aspect of it - thus, non-web HTML
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
whoa - gmail rewrites HTML emails?!?
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snarfed
bret: yeah, sorry, it's been unhappy
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Loqi
snarfed: bret left you a message 25 seconds ago: 500 errors on huffduff video http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-09/line/1428608996328
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tantek
bengo - do you have a source for that or firsthand research?
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bengo
firsthand
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tantek
is that something you could document publicly?
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tantek
that's a worthy criticism of gmail
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bret
snarfed: no worries! just a heads up. been thinking about hot to set up a storageless streaming version
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bret
how*
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bengo
it's a disaster. You can send a reasonable HTML5 document (even a HTML5 'app' with cool fancy features) and they strip out all the good web stuff and just show the user some <tables>
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bengo
@tantek Yes... I'll add that to my indieweb to-article list for after work
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kylewm
tantek: bengo: why is that surprising? would you want to be able to send javascript in an email?
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bengo
Or at least custom elements
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bengo
email is content-type agnostic. I just want to be able to leverage that
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bengo
We shouldn't have to replace email for private messaging
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kylewm
I mean, I rewrite the html of received webmentions
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ben_thatmustbeme
eep, javascript in email... no no no
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bengo
art @tantek's critique of no-URLs. I don't see why I couldn't write an email server that accepts messages, posts them as URLs that only the actual participants are authorized to access
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aaronpk
yeah I would never want my email client to run arbitrary JS
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bengo
@ben_thatmustbeme I'm not saying it's a good idea, just that it's annoying that Google's in the way of using the protocol as-designed
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aaronpk
just like I wouldn't want my site to display arbitrary JS from received webmentions
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bengo
embrace, extend, replace I guess
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tantek
bengo - yes that's what we call hypothetical, as in non-existent, thus non.
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tantek.com
edited /email (+174) "embed comic referring to legacy usage"
(view diff)
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snarfed
(not private, granted, but still)
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ben_thatmustbeme
bengo, the fact that they are doing something for safety that blocks the protocol as designed, is probably an indicator of design problem
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tantek
right - an example of email POSSEing
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tantek
documented already and more examples of here https://indiewebcamp.com/email#IndieWeb_Examples
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually the main complaint of email is really that its sender controlled, the burden is on the receiver to sort through all the email
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bengo
@ben_thatmustbeme I wouldn't be frustrated if they just stripped <script> tags. I'm frustrated that they rewrite all the reasonable markup like <divs> to <tables>
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tantek
wow divs to tables. that's like some kind of epic joke.
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bengo
@ben_thatmustbeme The receiver can reject messages that would be too burdensome to sift through.
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bengo
e.g. block all html emails that contain too many <script>s
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, that is... bad, i'm guessing there is some reason for it, forcing it to render the same on mobile, interference with their UI, dunno
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bengo
Also any sort of micro pub or messaging system that wants users to be able to submit html has the script tag problem
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bengo
it's not unique to a 'design flaw' in email
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bengo
My assumption is because they want to support all the way back to Outlook 1990 or whatever
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bengo
So they just rewrite to the lowest common denominator
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bengo
any HTML-accepting system (e.g. Livefyre) has to scrub away the bad stuff
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ben_thatmustbeme
bengo, the difference is that most (by convention right now) strip html, css, and JS out entirely and just look for the content only, then mark up themselves. email like that is basically sending you a webpage
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tantek
bengo, see also "EmailEfail" ;)
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gRegor`
Known doesn't like accepting webmentions from me. I get 202, but they never show up.
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GWG
bengo: Why would anyone be able to add to my site?
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gRegor`
Is there a moderation queue?
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bengo
@GWG I just assumed the example.com URL you sent (which didn't include any Authorization claim) is something anyone could hit
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tantek.com
edited /email (+93) "/* Criticism */ More Problems see EmailEfail and @EmailFail"
(view diff)
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GWG
bengo: No. Since I'm using WordPress, it checks for the WordPress user cookie. If it isn't there, it redirects to the WordPress login screen.
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GWG
I just didn't see the need for Indieauth in this case.
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bengo
@GWG ah well there you go. Bad assumption on my part
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GWG
I'm trying to figure out if I missed something
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gRegor`
http://gregorlove.com/notes/2015/03/23/2/ hasn't shown up on werd.io
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GWG
I suppose a GET based design could be risky.
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bret
poking fun at etherium?
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bengo
@GWG in an ideal world, GET requests should be idempotent. I don't think 'posting a bookmark' is that way. IMO you should not accept GET, but only POST
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bengo
@bret awesome share
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bengo
Glad I wasn't the only one who felt this way when reading about ehterium
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aaronpk
GWG: are you actually creating the bookmark from that request or pre-populating the interface with that request?
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gRegor`
What is etherium?
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bret
"Bob controls a worldwide public record of all transactions and is provably arbitrary. We call this record, the Bobchain."
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tantek
what is etherium?
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GWG
aaronpk: Creating the bookmark. I thought about populating a form with it.
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bret
"Powered in Theory"
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bengo
“I moved to Iceland for the cheap electricity and haven't seen the sun in many months. By moving my assets onto the Bobchain I can live anywhere in the world. I'm thinking Barbados... do you think Bob will let me?” – CryptoFoLife
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GWG
I was trying to reduce the friction so I could quickly send bookmarks into my site without the complication.
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tantek
bengo, agreed re: GET idempotent and not using GET to create bookmarks.
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tantek
what is intheoreum
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bret
bengo: ye be weary of all parallax scrolling
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bengo
@GWG If you support that sort of API, you could even easily add a simple HTML form to your homepage that lets users enter a URL and 'submit a bookmark'. Just have the form action be that API.
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tantek
intheoreum is http://intheoreum.org/ an apparent mocking of ethereum, but ignorable since it depends on Javascript to display content, per js;dr.
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loqi.me
created /intheoreum (+172) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-09/line/1428609885623 and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
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bret
turn it on for the lulz!
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aaronpk
i think that is part of the irony
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bengo
etherium is https://www.ethereum.org/, A project for distributed computing with something about blockchain-enforcable contracts
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loqi.me
created /etherium (+154) "prompted by gRegor` https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-09/line/1428609811734 and dfn added by bengo"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
i mention 20 minutes ago how quiet it is in here, and boy things change
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tantek
what is a blockchain?
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tantek
aaronpk ^^^ just for you ;)
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gRegor`
What is bitcoin?
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aaronpk
cringes
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GWG
bengo: The problem is my goal is to use the sharing intent in Android to send bookmarks into the system.
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aaronpk
i think the description of the "bobchain" covers it
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tantek
what is bobchain?
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gRegor`
bobchain is /blockchain
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loqi.me
created /bobchain (+23) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-09/line/1428610057919 and dfn added by gRegor`"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /etherium (-132) "r, spelling"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
what is etherium?
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Loqi
Ethereum is a project that implements a bitcoin/cryptocurrency like block chain used for sending around "contracts" https://indiewebcamp.com/etherium
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bengo
@GWG why is that a problem?
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GWG
bengo: That Bookmarklet Free app expects a GET
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GWG
So, that would be where I'd be accepting it from.
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bengo
I don't see a pref link to "That Bookmarklet Free app", can you share?
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bengo
And at the end of the day, you could always accept a GET because pragmatism.
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bengo
But good clients should POST
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bengo
And you can enforce your pragmatism. e.g. only accept GET if the User-Agent is android
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GWG
bengo: If you know anyone who wants to write a version of that app for Android...
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bengo
I'll keep an eye out. I stay away from Java
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bengo
JavaScript the same thing anyway yknow
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bengo
But it sounds like you shouldn't really need a new Android Thing. Use that one, and accept GETs if it helps your site out.
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bengo
I would do some sample requests from that app, though, and see if there's some heuristic I could check for on the server to only allow GETs from "Bookmarklet Free"
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bengo
But that's just because I like throwing Errors when people are doing things the suboptimal way.
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bengo
What is Postel's Law?
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Loqi
grins profusely
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kylewm
GWG: you could write a bookmarklet that adds a <form> at the bottom of the current page and submits it...
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GWG
bengo: My code supports both POST and GET. The only other alternative is to use GET to generate a form which means one omore click.
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GWG
kylewm: I'm using a app-based feed reader though.
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snarfed
ooh i just hit a '410 Gone' in the wild
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bengo
@GWG it sounds like you're good to go then? Is there a problem to be solved?
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snarfed
rare exotic animal
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snarfed
i feel special
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GWG
snarfed: You are special.
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GWG
bengo: You said it was suboptimal.
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bengo
@GWG sorry. Only insofar as others will be able to use GET, not just the one place you really need to allow it. In practice you can decide not to care
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bengo
Otherwise if you have some PHP that is looking for those $GET/$POST vars
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snarfed
bret: huffduff-video should be fixed now
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bengo
if it's $GET, add a conditional that will only allow requests that look like they're coming from Android/BookmarkletFree to pass
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bret
snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 99 karma
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bret
snarfed: any idea what happend?
#
snarfed
bret: yeah, i know the downstream cause, but not the upstream cause
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snarfed
high level, upstream cause is that a t2.micro ec2 instance isn't quite big enough for this :P
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm thinking of just dropping permashortcitations
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gRegor`
GWG: Are you making a plugin that handles adding these bookmarks?
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 63 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
unrelated note, going to create a small lib php-contacts. mf2-> contact entry data
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ben_thatmustbeme
at least a more cleaned up form of it any way
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tantek
is that for a nickname cache or … ?
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bengo
what is 'contact entry data'?
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, yes, and to build a contact list thing too
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cweiske
that "upnp directory root" text looks better in real
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kylewm
yes, probabl
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GWG
gRegor: You mean, posting them to my site, yes.
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kylewm
cweiske: ok fixed it
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kylewm
also gRegor` ascii art looks better now
friedcell1, bengo, todrobbins, lukebrooker, KartikPrabhu and KevinMarks joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
!tell bengo for future ref. if you use @ in front of an IRC username the logs link to the Twitter account. so @tantek would link to the wrong person!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks
I did another couple of indieweb WTF? sessions today
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GWG
KevinMarks: Great title.
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KevinMarks
walking through webmention -> mf2 -> micropub -> indieauth
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KevinMarks
lots of js-dr webpages being made here
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KevinMarks
I did one session with doc et al going from http://www.npr.org/api/queryGenerator.php to feed to json to h-feed explaining APIs and templates and transforms and what is fragile and what isn't
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KevinMarks
which means I can subscribe to NPR radio news in woodwind
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gRegor`
Yay, ascii art in woodwind
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Loqi
yay!
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KevinMarks
though I now feel like unmung needs to support webmentions
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KevinMarks
I think google's html rewriting proxy was made a logn time ago and not maintained usefully
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GWG
kylewm: How does one write a bookmarklet?
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GWG
I think it would take longer for me to learn Javascript.
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kylewm
doesn't really know javascript
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GWG
doesn't know it
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gRegor`
Hehe
bengo joined the channel
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kylewm
oh my, NPR's XML format is called NPRML
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gRegor`
Haaa
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KartikPrabhu
PTML: Parallel Transport XML for my site!!
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gRegor`
KartikPrabhu: Here's that This American Life segment I was talking about last night. It's pretty good. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/520/no-place-like-home?act=3
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KartikPrabhu
warning includes a lot of toast :P
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gRegor`
PITAML
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KartikPrabhu
ToastML for toast recipes
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gRegor`
Don't really know much about how the xmlns: URLs are supposed to work, but shouldn't it return more than this? http://api.npr.org/nprml
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gRegor`
That's the only place I see the 'nprml', in the <rss> element. Interesting. xmlns:nprml="http://api.npr.org/nprml"
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gRegor`
Totally coincidence, KartikPrabhu, but I forgot to mention the name of the podcast I'll be a part of is Late Night Toast.
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KartikPrabhu
you should talk about the "hipster" toast
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gRegor`
Ours is free though
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gRegor`
And not artisinal
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bengo
pretty rad
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Loqi
bengo: KartikPrabhu left you a message 1 hour, 36 minutes ago: for future ref. if you use @ in front of an IRC username the logs link to the Twitter account. so @tantek would link to the wrong person! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-09/line/1428614481124
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bengo
Given any indieweb url (like bengo.is or tantek.com), perform some entity extraction.
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KartikPrabhu
bengo: what kind of entities? I don't understand any of those
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bengo
umbel 'concepts' I guess, which are then mappable to other vocals
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bengo
Could be helpful for a few use cases
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bengo
1) I just wrote an Article I'm about to post. Suggest to me some good 'Concepts' to tag it with
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KartikPrabhu
what is tag?
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Loqi
tags or tagging refers to categorizing or labeling content, your own or others (tag-reply), with words, phrases, names, or other information, optionally linked to specific people, events, locations, such as the practice of tagging posts being about certain people (person-tag), like tagging people or other items where (area-tag) they're depicted in a photo https://indiewebcamp.com/tag
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bengo
2) I really liked the article I just read on someone's indieweb blog. I want to find some similar ones, so I ask umbel for the concepts mentioned, then (idk how) find some other articles that talk about the same things.
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KartikPrabhu
For 1. see: https://indiewebcamp.com/tag#mark_up_and_post_a_tag_reply For 2. use reader and u-category mf2
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KartikPrabhu
bengo: does the source have to publish these umbel things?
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KartikPrabhu
what is umbel?
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bengo
Nah, it just works for any URL
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bengo
What's your domain?
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KartikPrabhu
kartikprabhu.com
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bengo
There is an extraction from your latest article
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KartikPrabhu
oh so it looks for some words and matches some "concept" to it
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bengo
Exactly. Always cool to see a free resource for hard-ish problems like that
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bengo
So maybe I want to be notified whenever any of my indieweb friends posts about the "Manchester United Soccer Team". With some system like this, even if my friends just casually write about 'ManU Football
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bengo
I could still (hypothetically), get notified
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KartikPrabhu
depending on how well umbel vocabulary keeps up. seems fragile
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KartikPrabhu
like a spof
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bengo
Good point :)
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bengo
But Umbel is open source I think https://github.com/structureddynamics/umbel
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bengo
or at least some of the data/mappings... can't tell
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kylewm
I'm always curious what sort of person sets out to organize all of the world's concepts into these hierarchical ontologies
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bengo
They're not hierarchical
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bengo
(exclusively)
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kylewm
probably the same type of person who writes the wikipedia entry for wikipedia.org/wiki/Art :p
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bengo
e.g. if I assert `Rock -(similarTo)-> Stone`, there's no hierarchy there
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atomicules.co.uk
edited /User:Atomicules.co.uk (+141) "/* Relevant posts from my site */"
(view diff)
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kylewm
bengo: they're somewhat hierarchical, I looked at Cream, and it specialized into Spermicidal Cream and Dairy Cream
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bengo
Yeah some are. I think I agree with your sentiment. But I don't think the value of these things is hierarchies, it's the graph of relationships in general.
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KartikPrabhu
waits for actual use-cases
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gRegor`
A "Related articles" thing for indieweb could be cool though.
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gRegor`
Whoa. Don't mix up those creams.
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kylewm
anyway, saying hierarchical confused my point ... i know that's a criticism of schema.org, that it's overly hierarchical.
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atomicules.co.uk
edited /User:Atomicules.co.uk (+21) "/* Relevant posts from my site */"
(view diff)
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kylewm
i just wonder who sits down and tries to build these ontologies where the domain is literally Everything
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KartikPrabhu
what is umbel?
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gRegor`
Hm
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bengo
kylewm: I looked into it. The answer is 'some guys in iowa' http://structureddynamics.com/about.html
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kylewm
actually that totally explains it
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gregorlove.com
moved /umbel to /Umbel "capitalization"
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bengo
"Shaping Wikipedia into a Computable Knowledge Base"
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KartikPrabhu
"[...]effective data integration and semantic frameworks driven by ontologies." raises the no use-case/all theory red-flag
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kylewm
i worked on a project for work around 2007-2008 where one of the requirements was "Use Ontologies"
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KartikPrabhu
good luck
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bengo
lol. What was the project?
#
Loqi
These are projects you can use to get your site on the IndieWeb and improve your IndieWeb support https://indiewebcamp.com/project
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gRegor`
Heh. Period inside of quotation mark seemed to be the issue with Loqi and Umbel
#
Loqi
is done
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gRegor`
What is Umbel?
#
Loqi
Umbel is a general reference structure of concepts "designed to help content interoperate on the Web" https://indiewebcamp.com/Umbel
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gRegor`
regex is hard
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gRegor`
Loqi should respond to that with "let's go shopping"
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KartikPrabhu
what is regex?
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gRegor`
wat
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gRegor`
What is regular expression?
#
kylewm
bengo: a project for the air force... my first exposure to buzzword soup
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bengo
@kylewm roger :P
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gRegor`
I swear there was a page for regex
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bengo
I've been lucky enough to avoid that sort of thing in my short career.
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bengo
Maybe that just means I'm the buzzword guy
#
kylewm
they were very excited about building a multi-agent system, where like one agent could query other agents for their capabilities and then adapt to different situations
#
bengo
Well that sounds relevant
#
KartikPrabhu
like skynet
#
kylewm
but it didn't actually do anything :p
#
kylewm
is super off-topic
#
bengo
I was at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View this last weekend. I really enjoyed learning about how the Navy (iirc) really helped drive investment in 'real time computing' in the (idk..) 60s-ish
#
kylewm
that place is awesome
#
bengo
And also I left being like "man... the web is so young"
#
KartikPrabhu
this is where tantek reminds us of #indiechat
#
bengo
Ah well I didn't know about that channel
#
bengo
what is indiechat
#
Loqi
#indiechat is an IRC channel on freenode.net for off-topic chat for the IndieWebCamp community https://indiewebcamp.com/indiechat
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 91 karma
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gRegor`
What is regex?
#
gRegor`
regex is \regular expression
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KartikPrabhu
regex is regular expression
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loqi.me
created /regex (+55) "prompted by KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-09/line/1428622730915 and dfn added by gRegor`"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
Hahaha
#
gRegor`
What is regex?
#
Loqi
A regular expression is a sequence of characters used to match, extract, and/or replace patterns in text https://indiewebcamp.com/regex
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loqi.me
created /parse_HTML_with_regex (+93) "prompted by kylewm and dfn added by kylewm"
(view diff)
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kylewm.com
edited /regular_expression (+68) "/* See Also */"
(view diff)
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snarfed
story of my life
#
snarfed
it's dog science all the way down
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pdurbin
what is dog science?