#indiewebcamp 2015-04-18

2015-04-18 UTC
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loqi.me created /feedparser (+149) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by KevinMarks" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Tumblr (-9) "not a stub for a while" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks: so fork it and restore it
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tantek you understand that code better than any of us
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GWG I'm trying to figure out php-mf2 and its friends
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tantek nice
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GWG I don't understand the behavior of one of Barnaby's functions
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GWG The description suggests a function called getRepresentativeHcard should return an hcard or null, but on some urls it returns the whole parsed array
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kylewm GWG: by some URLs do you mean tantek.com?
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kylewm (where the h-card encompasses the whole page)
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GWG Actually, I last tried a random note from aaronpk's site.
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kylewm GWG: maybe file an issue?
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GWG Kylewm, I assumed that it was me.
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GWG I think I need to experiment a little before filing
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GWG Also, may try some other data sources as well. Can always change the priority later.
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (+326) "/* Developer Relations */ 2015-03-15 Sarah Kessler / FastCompany Twitter Only Gave Meerkat 2 Hours Notice Before Cutting Access To The Social Graph" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Ghost () "(-4650) restore deleted content, remove content apparently copy / pasted from Wikipedia which does not have a public domain compatible license. Please update with *original content*, not just WP copy/paste, and do not remove existing content with citations" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Ghost (+39) "update definition since ghost is available, and incorporate old criticism into history since it is past/resolved" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Ghost (+1157) "re-add errantly removed Rejected microformats2 markup in default theme issue" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Ghost (+0) "/* Rejected microformats2 markup in default theme */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Ghost (+0) "/* Dogfooding at launch */" (view diff)
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tantek I've tried to update the Ghost article to restore both the previous content that was deleted, and then fix/update that content according to current easily verifiable (cited) facts that were claimed by the edits that removed the previous content.
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tantek I would appreciate peer review and fixes/edits to https://indiewebcamp.com/Ghost based on anything else anyone knows
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GWG I know nothing about Ghost
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GWG Other than it exists
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tantek ok
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GWG I'm making progress on my little project.
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GWG But I'm thinking I may need to back away from parsing for a bit, get functionality working, and move the feature back into the future.
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KevinMarks tommorris, kylewm do you use Beautiful Soup or html5lib in mf2py?
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tommorris KevinMarks: bs4
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KevinMarks is that better than html5lib? How did you choose?
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: the switch was mostly me. BS4 has a lot of traversing and parsing stuff built in.
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KartikPrabhu also bs4 can inbternally use html5lib
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KevinMarks aha, OK
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colintedford !tell caseorganic Twitter early UI screenshot (http://caseorganic.com/presentations/2013/10/19/1/files/slides/pictures/7-changing-user-interface-twitter.png) has gone missing (as seen at https://indiewebcamp.com/twitter#Early_User_Interface).
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell her that when I see her next
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KevinMarks html5lib can do an HTML tidy effectively can't it?
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KartikPrabhu yeah i suppose
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KevinMarks that was another deleted feedparser feature.
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KevinMarks anyone here using pelican?
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colintedford.com created /flat-file_storage (+26) "redirect "flat-file storage" to "file storage"" (view diff)
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colintedford KevinMarks: bear used it a bit before deciding to write his own.
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+743) "/* Wants */ flat-file storage" (view diff)
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colintedford.com created /hakkan (+126) "stub dfn" (view diff)
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colintedford what is hakkan
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Loqi Hakkan is meant to be a publishing tool for static sites that want to participate in the IndieWeb realm https://indiewebcamp.com/Hakkan
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colintedford Man, Mediawiki's case-sensitivity trips me up.
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colintedford.com edited /hakkan (-106) "Oops, already exists (capitalized); redirect instead." (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /Hakkan (+29) "Python-based." (view diff)
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colintedford KevinMarks: looks like Stuart Langridge is/was using Pelican https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention#IndieWeb_Examples
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colintedford.com created /Pelican (+1046) "stub dfn, examples" (view diff)
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colintedford what is pelican
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Loqi Pelican is a Python-based static site generator https://indiewebcamp.com/Pelican
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colintedford.com created /pelican (+21) "redirect to capitalized" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ Twitter trademarked tweetstorm. Notestorm is taken
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KartikPrabhu Notenado!
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bear KevinMarks, I used Pelican until I realized that I could do the same with jinja2 templates and markdown files and a loop to take my directory structure and create the site
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KevinMarks__ Hah
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bear some of the assumptions pelican had were making me crazy
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KevinMarks__ Noterstorm is free
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KevinMarks__ What kind of thing?
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bear oh, they have all been fixed now - this was like 4 yrs ago
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KevinMarks__ Ah right
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bear now you can have plugins and themes
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bear but once you invest in your own generator, even if it's simple and always on the verge of breaking, it's hard to go back
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KevinMarks__ One reason I've not made one
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KevinMarks__ Though it is about time I templated
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bear you may like Pelican - it has a very structured feel to how things work - and within that structure the plugins and themes are very good
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KevinMarks__ Jinja2 is nice
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KevinMarks__ Though I end up writing code in it,
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KevinMarks__ Which is a bit odd
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bear jinja2 is very nice, the ability to use more code-feel templates is handy
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bear i found it easy to compose templates out of smaller bits of template - so I can have microformat templates for sections that are then included
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bear that plus some borrowed css makes for a nice composition feel
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KevinMarks yay, I now have 204 failing tests
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Loqi giggles
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colintedford.com edited /static_site_generator (+44) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Hakkan" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /Pelican (+165) "/* Indiweb Examples */ bear's issues w/ Pelican have been fixed" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /Pelican (+120) "bear positivity on Pelican" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+119) "/* Pipe Dreams */ placeholder for thoughts" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+116) "/* Note names */ inspired by poetry convention" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+113) "disclaimer / pointer to note name notes" (view diff)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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KevinMarks so when parsing rels, we aren't getting any attributes except the href in mf2py or in PHP
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KevinMarks which means <a rel="enclosure" href="http://example.com/movie.mp4" type="video/mpeg" title="real title">my movie</a>
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KevinMarks or <p><a rel="coworker" href="http://example.com/johndoe">John Doe</a></p>
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KevinMarks are going to lose type, title and link contents
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KevinMarks and <a rel="tag" href="http://del.icio.us/tag/tech">Technology</a> will lose label "Technology"
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jonnybarnes so has aaronpk registered pubhubsubhub.club?
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jonnybarnes ubububub
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@kigo #bcg15 "Bright maximizes the privacy, ubiquity and granularity of your data" https://brightdata.io #verschluesselung #cloud #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/589372221979762688)
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ben_thatmustbeme it works.. i get notifications on my phone too!
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@CoderDojoVA RT @NZN: #indie #indieweb @indie are some of most important concept markers these days..tools/methods supporting them need much love..#sust… (twitter.com/_/status/589414471853944835)
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme: can you post a screenshot of the notification on your phone next time you get one?
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GWG I've decided to try testing my work in live use.
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snarfed hey kylewm, i'm thinking about rolling the new FB id parsing out to more people. (https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/305#issuecomment-94004416) any thoughts?
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snarfed (more like, last words? :P)
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KevinMarks is anyone interested in helping me change the output of rel parsing to get the rest of the attributes on the link?
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KevinMarks I can just fork mf2py to do it, but it would be nice to converge, and it will be a breaking change from now
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bear KevinMarks - you may want to poke kartik - IIRC he has commit privs to mf2py
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KevinMarks thinking about this
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KevinMarks are xfn rels an implied h-card ?
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tantek no
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tantek because rels are also document-scoped rather than element scoped, it gets tricky doing any kind of implying in either direction.
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tantek the only case where it has made sense to do so so far is with a representative h(-)card for the page, that is a case where the h-card is also document-scoped.
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tantek KevinMarks: I sympathize with getting more attributes from elements like that. the other similar case we have is with <area> and shape / coords
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tantek problem we have discovered is that adding any kind of "extra-format" attributes like that to the canonical microformats JSON can create an impedance mismatch with Micropub - as ben_thatmustbeme figured out when he tried to implement <area> tagging.
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tantek KevinMarks: can you add a new section talking about what you want to do about rel parsing and extra attributes to http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming ?
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tantek maybe we can do a #microformats dev meetup when Tom Morris is in town this week (like we did last time he was in town) and figure it out.
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KevinMarks as part of the existing "other notes" ?
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tantek add a brand new section right at the top
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tantek as in right before the existing Nested h-* objects' "value" property
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tantek start with Raised 2015-04-18 by ~~~
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KevinMarks done: - feedback welcome http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming#more_information_for_rel-based_formats
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KevinMarks especially from mf2 parser maintaners/users like aaronpk kylewm tommorris and kartik
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tantek KevinMarks: why "attrs" instead of just having them in place right there?
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tantek "attrs" seems like an extra layer
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KevinMarks possible name collisions with url and name
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tantek there's no url attr in HTML
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tantek and for name you could use something else like "text"
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tantek note that there is prior art in how "alternates" are parsed already with extra attributes that you may want to draw from:
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#rel_parse_examples
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tantek note the media and hreflang attributes in the parsed result for the alternate
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tantek (for "text" I am presuming that you do just want the text inside the <a href>, that is, you don't want any of the markup that might be inside, e.g. <span> etc., and for <img> you'd want the alt text to automatically come through)
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KevinMarks that implies different parsing for multiple rels
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KevinMarks which is odd given multiple xfn values
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KevinMarks that is a very odd parsing for alternates
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KevinMarks how should it parse <a rel="friend met colleague" href="http://tantek.com" title="Tantek Çelik">Tantek</a>
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KevinMarks should it follow the alternates pattern and group the other xfn names?
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aaronpk good morning
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GWG Morning aaronpk
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aaronpk The mysterious pingbacks have continued all night
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@kylewmahan Check out the #indieweb with your Blogger, Wordpress dot com, or Tumblr. https://feverdream.herokuapp.com helps you set up #indieauth and #micropub. (twitter.com/_/status/589491150869827585)
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KevinMarks kylewm: how do I tell feverdream which blogger blog to use?
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KevinMarks 'cos it picked the wrong one
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KevinMarks worked on wordpress though: https://epeus.wordpress.com/2015/04/18/5/
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@kevinmarks RT @kylewmahan: Check out the #indieweb with your Blogger, Wordpress dot com, or Tumblr. https://feverdream.herokuapp.com helps you set up #indieaut… (twitter.com/_/status/589500630361739264)
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KevinMarks kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 158 karma
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KevinMarks mind you, not going to be good if I send you a webmention from wp as there's no name
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kylewm KevinMarks: oh awesome, thank you
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KevinMarks on blogger it picked a random blog from my list
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KevinMarks (I have about 20)
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kylewm oh oops
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kylewm it actually gives authorization for all of them, but it just picks the first one to give you instructions for right now. i'll fix that
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KevinMarks also, you need to close the link tags for blogger, ti is xml strict
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KevinMarks <link rel="authorization_endpoint" href="https://indieauth.com/auth" />
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KevinMarks says unauthorized for the blogger blog "Could not find an authorization for Epeus.blogspot.com."
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KevinMarks capitlaization?
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aaronpk oh i'm an idiot, of course the pingbacks are coming from the indiewebcamp server
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aaronpk they're forwarded to my site as webmentions by webmention.io
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kylewm aaronpk: does that mean they are no longer mysterious, or just slightly less mysterious?
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kylewm KevinMarks: I pushed an update trying to make the domain comparison case-insensitive
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KevinMarks that worked
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kylewm it should ask you which blog you want to setup when you auth with tumblr or blogger now
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kylewm also
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kylewm KevinMarks++ thanks for testing!
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Loqi KevinMarks has 102 karma
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KevinMarks you need to fix the auth headers for blogger to close the link tags
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aaronpk that means they are just regular spam
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KevinMarks hm, quill doesn't do titles
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kylewm can <link> be self-closing or does it need an explicit close tag?
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KevinMarks self closing is fine
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kylewm ok it's there now
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KevinMarks i manually sent a webmention
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KevinMarks though you don't seem to have parsed my retro h-entry
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kylewm it parses OK, it just doesn't have a in-reply-to
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KevinMarks ah
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KevinMarks quill takes one, but it doesn't end up in the post
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kylewm right :(
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kylewm I'm thinking about how I should do that
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kylewm just shove it in the the post content i suppose
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KevinMarks makes sense
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kylewm I could fetch the in-reply-to page and have it generate a semi-nice reply context...
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kylewm I probably won't though
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KevinMarks do you have code for that now?
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kylewm generating reply context?
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kylewm mf2util does it mostly
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kylewm I've gotta run or going to be trouble for not helping with housework
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kylewm thanks again for testing and feedback!
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KevinMarks cheers
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KevinMarks have a lok at http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming#more_information_for_rel-based_formats later
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@schnarfed RT @kylewmahan: Check out the #indieweb with your Blogger, Wordpress dot com, or Tumblr. https://feverdream.herokuapp.com helps you set up #indieaut… (twitter.com/_/status/589520284572495872)
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@codebear RT @kylewmahan: Check out the #indieweb with your Blogger, Wordpress dot com, or Tumblr. https://feverdream.herokuapp.com helps you set up #indieaut… (twitter.com/_/status/589525718721241089)
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squeakytoy Hey guys. Offtopic, but can anyone recommend (great) coding /computer related documentaries (or coding /computer related movies)?
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squeakytoy maybe i should have asked in #indiechat
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@bookprescom Instagram Post Notifications: This Week in Social Media >> http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/?p=81948&utm_content=bufferfcd83&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Cindy King. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/589533949057228800)
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snarfed !tell squeakytoy indie game the movie
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu twitter seems to be moving towards a "look for celebrities" feel. see new homepage
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@BillSeitz RT @kylewmahan: Check out the #indieweb with your Blogger, Wordpress dot com, or Tumblr. https://feverdream.herokuapp.com helps you set up #indieaut… (twitter.com/_/status/589555694925283328)
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