#indieweb

2015-05-09

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@jkphl
Arrived at the @sipgateDE offices for @indiewebcamp -- really nice space! https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/596934753942675456/photo/1 (twtr.io/zDziSbofxb)
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@jkphl
The @indiewebcamp kick-off will take place in the restaurant -- nice! :) https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/596935960719396864/photo/1 (twtr.io/zE09JYHwuQ)
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@rhiaro
It's indiewebcamp o'clock! http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/05/indiewebcamp-oclock https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/596937187398148096/photo/1 (twtr.io/zE0ab3SEUG)
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tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp! Wie gehts Düsseldorf?
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Loqi
tantek: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 hours, 14 minutes ago: re:mention-of yes, i have an else clause, I know its a mention when i receive it, but in a stream of my activies it doesn't really make sense. (ben.thatmustbe.me/activity) Either its going to be just a random link which leaves it as some generic h-entry, and i assume those are mentions, or I just give it an explicit type http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-08/line/1431147971014
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tantek
Loqi got truncated ^^^
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Loqi
who, me?
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rhiaro
tantek: there's coffee and whiteboards, off to a good start
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tantek
and wifi apparently too :) yes that's a good start!
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tantek
is there a schedule / empty session grid?
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rhiaro
Aaron is making it
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rhiaro
Right this minute
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rhiaro
Half an hour til the actual start
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@danielpietzsch
And off to #IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf... (twtr.io/zE17c_2mFU)
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tantek
rhiaro: sounds "just in time" "Agile" :)
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tantek
really hope to see more use-case / user-centric discussions happen than plumbing discussions
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rhiaro
Yup
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tantek
FWIW today (2015-05-08) social web wg IRC was nearly all plumbing-centric mishmashing :/
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rhiaro
Which conversation?
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tantek
all the stuff about refactoring API as data vs CRUD, or the whole acct:/Webfinger distraction etc.
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tantek
nearly all the conversations :(
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tantek
technology people easily get sucked into the trap of plumbing arguments
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tantek
instead of knowing to say STOP, what's the use-case driving this discussion?
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rhiaro
Oh I'm ignoring both of those
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rhiaro
I'm sure they'll work themselves out/go away
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rhiaro
Picking my battles carefully
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@btconf
Follow these flags into the yard to find #IndieWebCamp and #ST4I workshop today at #btconf. https://twitter.com/btconf/status/596939577866223616/photo/1 (twtr.io/zE1SqD84LG)
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tantek
rhiaro: it just makes me sad to see the plumbing noise in the social web wg drown out (even discourage) the quieter user-centric discussions :(
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rhiaro
tantek: the useful discussions are still happening IRL at the moment :)
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rhiaro
We should really scribe ourselves into irc
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Loqi
+1
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tantek
rhiaro: the only way we stay user/use-case focused here in indiewebcamp is by actively minimizing/off the plumbing-centric debates and plumbing pitches that (some) people show up and do
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adactio.com
edited /2015/Germany (+0) "/* Schedule */" (view diff)
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rhiaro
yeah
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2015/Germany/Schedule (+0) (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com
edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (-326) "/* Participants */ -1 Won't be able to join. Auli & elf, please excuse me." (view diff)
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@newsyc100
IndieWeb http://indiewebify.me/ (https://news.ycombinator.com/item) (twtr.io/zE4YBYGWiC)
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@jkphl
.@aaronpk & @adactio kicking off the 1st @indiewebcamp day at the @sipgateDE restaurant #indieweb #btconf https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/596949206075645953/photo/1 (twtr.io/zE4tCAXgeD)
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@Renaade
Nice participants and very excited @indiewebcamp (@ sipgate GmbH - @sipgatede in Düsseldorf) https://www.swarmapp.com/c/0k6tTQiZFAl https://twitter.com/Renaade/status/596949529473220608/photo/1 (twtr.io/zE50842gGo)
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rhiaro
commences scribing IWC demos
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rhiaro
adactio: Jeremy, adactio.com, runs php and mysql for a long time. Added something at every IWC to make it more fun. Post notes (basically tweets) to own site and synidcate to twitter
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rhiaro
adactio: also get responses from facebook, twitter, instagram, and publish, using webmention, setup 2 years ago
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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rhiaro
adactio: signin using indieauth. Post from to site from someone else's client using micropub
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rhiaro
adactio: demos posting with Quill
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slvrbckt
\o/
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rhiaro
adactio: with SMS authentication
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rhiaro
adactio: with micropub you can turn anything into a client so you don't have to build your own pretty interfaces, piggyback on someone else's
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rhiaro
adactio: demos posting to own site from instagram
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rhiaro
aaronpk: aaronparecki.com, messy pile of php, which is fine..
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rhiaro
aaronpk: also posts from quill, and pebble app for tracking food
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rhiaro
aaronpk logs coffee
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rhiaro
screenshot of pebble at teacup.p3k.io/pebble
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rhiaro
aaronpk: watch is making micropub request
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rhiaro
aaronpk: using micropub for more than just text notes
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rhiaro
aaronpk: demos Monocle. To read people's posts without going to their sites. Old style RSS readers like inbox style, but now shift towards stream like interface
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rhiaro
monocle.p3k.io
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rhiaro
aaronpk signs into monocle with indieauth
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rhiaro
aaronpk: reader just reading microformats on people's websites and reformatting
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rhiaro
... clicks a post from benwerd
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rhiaro
... star or repost directly from reader
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rhiaro
... posts to own site
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rhiaro
... also via micropub
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rhiaro
... so own site is the source of this data
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rhiaro
Joschi: https://jkpht.is
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rhiaro
... implemented webmentions
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rhiaro
... publishes blog posts
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rhiaro
... shows people responding from their own sites via webmention
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rhiaro
... shows one of adactio's posts on his site that shows up as reply
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rhiaro
... last year implemented indieaction markup
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rhiaro
... want to switch to something file based
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rhiaro
fkooman: demos indiecert
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rhiaro
... Francois, https://tuxed.net
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rhiaro
... micropub + indiecert
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rhiaro
... indiecert is different from webid
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rhiaro
... also uses Quill, using own implementation of indieauth not aaron's
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rhiaro
... signs into quill, browser pops up cert, approves request
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rhiaro
... another method of authentication compared to SMS or twitter. Don't rely on any third parties
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rhiaro
... Posts using Quill via micropub
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rhiaro
... indiecert.net
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rhiaro
... log in, displays access tokens granted
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rhiaro
... still work to do
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rhiaro
... questions?
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rhiaro
michielbdejong: why better?
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rhiaro
fkooman: does not depend on third parties
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rhiaro
??: how easy to install?
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rhiaro
fkooman: quiet easy
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rhiaro
... indiecert takes care of generating, install cert in browser
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rhiaro
... demos installing in private browser
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rhiaro
... rel="me" with fingerprint in the same way as other indieauth
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rhiaro
... feel free to try it and ask if you run into problems!
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rhiaro
... all on github
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rhiaro
github.com/fkooman/indiecert
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rhiaro
... also has dockerfiles
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rhiaro
docker++
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Loqi
docker has 7 karma
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rhiaro
glennjones: glennjones.net
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rhiaro
... quite bare at the moment, latest tweet
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rhiaro
... likes and retweets
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rhiaro
... my own backend for adding stuff to twitter, transmat
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rhiaro
... (transomat?)
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rhiaro
... backend understands twitter @mentions and urls and autolinks
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rhiaro
... written a plugin, adds reply-to query string to url from twitter
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rhiaro
... my site takes that, goes to twitter, parses tweet to add reply context, also injects name
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rhiaro
... Also started collecting checkins, have own venues database
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rhiaro
... looked at using foursquare, didn't like t&c about mixing content
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rhiaro
... to checkin, click checkin button, does geo lookup, looks into database for 300m radius and adds venue - injects venu h-card
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rhiaro
... put no text, so adds to checkins database
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rhiaro
... keeps most of them private, collects information for self
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rhiaro
... don't use bridgy, have own method for getting replies/likes etc
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rhiaro
... main problem with checkins is do it out and about, wifi not good, spend too long being unsocialbe looking at phone
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rhiaro
... next interface will use serviceworkers to cache everything on phone
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rhiaro
... built javascript database
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rhiaro
... *demos*
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rhiaro
... gets all venue data from site and stores locally
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rhiaro
... sorted geographically
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rhiaro
... also searchable
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rhiaro
... *searches 'pub lond' and gets london pubs*
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rhiaro
... all clientside, works offline, really fast
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rhiaro
... next stage is to integrate with posting interface
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rhiaro
... cache checkins, poll internet until gets connection, then send
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rhiaro
adactio: if I wanted to do this, I could use your list of places?
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rhiaro
glennjones: or use your own list. Not live yet.
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rhiaro
... you can use other people's lists and publish straight to own site
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rhiaro
... maybe could aggregate people's places together if lots of people use it
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rhiaro
... would like to talk about how to build nicer interfaces
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rhiaro
would like to use this ^
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rhiaro
LukasRos: lukasrosenstock.net
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rhiaro
... likes app.net, different approach with payment instead of ads
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rhiaro
... interesting experiment to use app.net and let them have the data, but at the same time get everything onto own domain
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rhiaro
... PESOS approach
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rhiaro
... not doing exactly that, no database yet, pulling straight from API
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@jkphl
Really love the interfaces @glennjones is building w/ e.g. https://t.co/CRgWmYzT7n, https://nearthing.io #indieweb https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/596957707481051136/photo/1 (twtr.io/zE7vR3A35b)
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rhiaro
... every post on my site is on app.net
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rhiaro
... but each has own url on my domain, so even if app.net goes down still available
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rhiaro
... has microformats and RSS feeds, so people can consume with readers
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rhiaro
... also has micropub integration
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rhiaro
... *demos posting with Quill*
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rhiaro
... shows an error even though it has been posted..
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rhiaro
... also posted on app.net
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rhiaro
... micropub part is still under development, but getting posts from app.net on own site is open source
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rhiaro
... on github
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rhiaro
Bastian: demo file-based CMS called Kirby (?)
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rhiaro
can't see url, forgot glasses...
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rhiaro
... shows how files are created on system
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rhiaro
... spent time building public APIs to write and read files
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rhiaro
... so you can provide your own interface for it
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@ChrisAldrich
Microformats 2 Version of Underscores Starter Theme with #Indieweb Support for #Wordpress via @dshanske https://github.com/dshanske/mf2_s (twtr.io/zE8JsY2qf0)
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rhiaro
... very simple
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rhiaro
^ this looks super pretty
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rhiaro
... creates markdown files
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rhiaro
... currently has custom authentication system, would like to combine with indieauth
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rhiaro
... and implement webmentions etc
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rhiaro
... not indieweb yet, but hope to make it so
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@btconf
Yummy! Breakfast options at #IndieWebCamp and #st4i workshop. Welcome! #btconf https://twitter.com/btconf/status/596959179371347968/photo/1 (twtr.io/zE8Sxuwyso)
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rhiaro
Daniel Pietzsch: shows blog
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rhiaro
can someone who can read screen add url please?
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rhiaro
... signs in with indieauth
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rhiaro
... authenticates with last.fm
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rhiaro
... use tumblr to syndicate to twitter and flickr
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rhiaro
... this weekend I'd like to learn more about indieweb building blocks, probably implement webmentions
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@Renaade
My next big thing: testing Kirby http://getkirby.com/ @indiewebcamp (twtr.io/zE8b4kf0vU)
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adactio
Now rhiaro is demoing...
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aaronpk_
amy is up next: rhiaro.co.uk
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aaronpk_
amy: php site, stores everything in a triple store, rdf
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aaronpk_
... publishes posts using quilll
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aaronpk_
... also uses teacup for posting food, but doesn't have a pebble so uses the web interface
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aaronpk_
... signing in to teacup.p3k.io
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aaronpk_
... signed in using twitter, wants to add more ways of signing in not using twitter
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aaronpk_
... posts checkins on her site as well
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aaronpk_
... stores geo checkins with actual locations, but doesn't display them yet
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aaronpk_
... one goal this weekend is to have a place for those
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aaronpk_
... also events
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rhiaro
sebastian Kippe: does indieauth
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rhiaro
... events from lanyards, but would like to replace that
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rhiaro
... dont' actually want everything public
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rhiaro
... files in remotestorage, 5apps
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rhiaro
... logs into sharesome to allow it to use 5apps storage
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rhiaro
... could be own website, not 5apps
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rhiaro
... *uploads file to sharesome*
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rhiaro
sharesome.5apps.com
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raucao
https://storage.5apps.com/basti/public/shares/150509-0857-agreed.gif
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rhiaro
... *results in url*
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rhiaro
^^^^^
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rhiaro
... any remotestorage server can do this
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rhiaro
... anyone can write their own apps, I can connect my storage to people's apps
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aaronpk
Wait so remote storage is like a prettier version of WebDAV?
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rhiaro
... anyone interested in using remotestorage as a backend store for indieweb publishing, can talk about this
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rhiaro
Rogier: killerog.com
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rhiaro
adactio: come on, there are more websites to demo :)
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rhiaro
aaronpk: we need even less shyness, we're going to start making sessions.
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rhiaro
We're ahead of scheduel!
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rhiaro
designsession++
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Loqi
designsession has 1 karma
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@betterhn100
IndieWeb http://indiewebify.me/ (twtr.io/zE9xmELcUY)
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fkooman
https://www.indiehosters.net/
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@DigestWordpress
RT @ChrisAldrich: Microformats 2 Version of Underscores Starter Theme with #Indieweb Support for #Wordpress via @dshanske https://t.co/Y32A… (twtr.io/zEAEDGDYeU)
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@kevinmarks
RT @ChrisAldrich: Microformats 2 Version of Underscores Starter Theme with #Indieweb Support for #Wordpress via @dshanske https://t.co/Y32A… (twtr.io/zEAUpYvMTU)
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@pixelsultan
RT @btconf: Follow these flags into the yard to find #IndieWebCamp and #ST4I workshop today at #btconf. https://twitter.com/btconf/status/596939577866223616/photo/1 (twtr.io/zEAnfh0sks)
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@pallas23
RT @btconf: Follow these flags into the yard to find #IndieWebCamp and #ST4I workshop today at #btconf. https://twitter.com/btconf/status/596939577866223616/photo/1 (twtr.io/zEByp28DwG)
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@g16n
“So we name the rooms: room 1 and room A.” —@adactio ;-) #IndieWebCamp (twtr.io/zECTpHKmux)
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rhiaro
Important note for everyone not at IWC Dusseldorf: the food is AMAZING
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rhiaro
sorrynotsorry
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@killerog
Just to warn people, timeline might get busy with #IndieWebCamp tweets :-) (twtr.io/zECiKTTpBU)
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@glennjones
So the @indiewebcamp sessions start: markup, webmentions, offline, micropub, ui design (twtr.io/zEDF6VSDBU)
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@jkphl
Starting the @indiewebcamp sessions w/ a @microformats basic class #indieweb https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/596974567068934144/photo/1 (twtr.io/zEDwmcHeV4)
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@jkphl
@srbanister Klar, nicht zum ersten Mal. Du hättest mal bei der letzten @border_none dabei sein sollen — das war dicht dran. #indieweb (twtr.io/zEEVynqT7j)
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raucao
shared folders notes: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/XEnrYDE4bf
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@jkphl
@srbanister Yep. Langfristiger Plan meinerseits, sobald unsere neuen Räume einsatzbereit sind. Ich sag nur http://indieweb.club ... (twtr.io/zEEtS5Pjhf)
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@jkphl
#IndieWebCamp folks: You may use http://micrometa.jkphl.is to visualize both @microformats and http://schema.org data at the same time (twtr.io/zEFC3pGJ80)
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@saemple
RT @btconf: Follow these flags into the yard to find #IndieWebCamp and #ST4I workshop today at #btconf. https://twitter.com/btconf/status/596939577866223616/photo/1 (twtr.io/zEGGTn9UfY)
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@jkphl
Keep an eye on http://t.co/OrSJ8e7F61. AFAIK it's going to support @microformats / h-event both reading and markup-wise #indieweb (twtr.io/zEHafXwAAA)
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@sipgateDE
RT @btconf: Follow these flags into the yard to find #IndieWebCamp and #ST4I workshop today at #btconf. https://twitter.com/btconf/status/596939577866223616/photo/1 (twtr.io/zEJyY5aiD5)
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@ThatEmil
Trying to figure out how to go from a Webmention to a URL to knowing that the content available on that URL accepts webmentions (in Django). (twtr.io/zELCBFBGks)
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@ThatEmil
Thinking so far: accept the webmention, send a signal passing along the URL somehow, model listens to signal, looks up instance and checks. (twtr.io/zEMBEoCWMs)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2015/Germany (+0) "/* Schedule */" (view diff)
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@Raaphorst
@MichaelMinneboo @wissewords @emijnsbergen @metkcom ben voorstander van indieweb, content op allerlei plaatsen aanbieden (twtr.io/zEMm3nLiNf)
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@testadopaynesz
RT @SoloDMOfficiel: RT @SoloDMOfficiel: Interactive #javascript canvas to display Character Class info! #indieweb #webdev http://t.co/k0yU… (twtr.io/zEMokGK9SQ)
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@testadopaynesz
RT @SoloDMOfficiel: Interactive #javascript canvas to display Character Class info! #indieweb #webdev http://www.osoftdev.com/osd_products/Saga/ http://t.co/S… (twtr.io/zEMp_4ZrD4)
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aaronpk
rhiaro: we have an etherpad too :) http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com
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@jkphl
Next: Session about hosting — what might make publishing easier and more accessible to a broader audience? #indieweb https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/597002516191150081/photo/1 (twtr.io/zEPvpRMzU1)
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@ThatEmil
@BarnabyWalters I'm thinking a Webmention model storing all incoming mentions, and other models may or may not listen to post_save signal. (twtr.io/zESdCMJM0p)
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@retweetnewsorg
IndieWeb http://indiewebify.me/ (twtr.io/zETG4avkzU)
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aaronpk
http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/auth
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@rhiaro
RT @jkphl: Next: Session about hosting — what might make publishing easier and more accessible to a broader audience? #indieweb http://t.co… (twtr.io/zEThUK_LJ8)
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@jkphl
#IndieWebCamp folks: Re rel=pgpkey, pls have a look at (and support) http:/// +@mxstbr (twtr.io/zEUZPPauA8)
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ben_thatmustbeme
is there a talky link for this?
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ben_thatmustbeme
or anything of this
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: aaronpk: ^^^
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@mxstbr
RT @jkphl: #IndieWebCamp folks: Re rel=pgpkey, pls have a look at (and support) http:/// +@mxstbr (twtr.io/zEV6UScHHt)
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rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: haven't seen any sign of livestreaming
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rhiaro
could be wrong
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ben_thatmustbeme
etherpad doesn't seem like its being used and no one is minuting :(
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rhiaro
oh I guess aaron started minuting but he's talking
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rhiaro
and my brain is asleep
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rhiaro
he's talking through how indieauth works
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ben_thatmustbeme
also can someone update https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany/Schedule
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ben_thatmustbeme
grid is empty
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rhiaro
good plan
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@ExplodingAds
mikro2nd comments on "IndieWeb" - http://blog.explodingads.com/?p=7441 - #startup #trending #socialmedia #news #business #marketing #entrepreneur (twtr.io/zEVcGYEL9b)
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@ExplodingAds
mikro2nd comments on "IndieWeb" - http://blog.explodingads.com/?p=7444 - #startup #trending #socialmedia #news #business #marketing #entrepreneur (twtr.io/zEVdaG0j5L)
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indie-visitor
Hi chat room. Not made it over from Cologne today. Have a good day there.
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Loqi
indie-visitor: tantek left you a message on 4/22 at 4:35pm: if you're zachdonovan, use: /nick zachdonovan to set your nickname! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-22/line/1429745740230
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@offeryour
mikro2nd comments on "IndieWeb" - http://blog.offeryour.com/?p=183901 #sales #marketing (twtr.io/zEVxAoVUfZ)
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@offeryour
mikro2nd comments on "IndieWeb" - http://blog.offeryour.com/?p=183904 #sales #marketing (twtr.io/zEVxLVjcQG)
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GWG
How are things in DUS?
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lukasrosenstock.net
edited /2015/Germany/Schedule (+190) "/* Saturday 2015-05-09 */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
GWG no clue
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GWG
Someone tweeted my starter theme? Hmm...
#
GWG
Just catching up, ben_thatmustbeme.
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rhiaro
https://github.com/rhiaro/mf2rdf
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rhiaro
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams/Microformats_Mapping
#
rhiaro
(controversial linked data session link dropping, don't mind me)
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GWG
We were hoping for more than link dropping.
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rhiaro
http://rhiaro.github.io/sws/
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raucao
linked data pad: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/qHDy6IBRJF
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rhiaro
http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/linkeddata
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rhiaro
I want it on record that I did *not* propose this topic :)
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GWG
elf-pavlik?
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rhiaro
GWG: he's not here
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raucao
:)
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rhiaro
I'm not laying blame
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raucao
if it helps we're discussing this not just for indieweb per se
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rhiaro
raucao: I don't think that helps, we're at indiewebcamp....
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LukasRos
For the record it was me who wanted to talk about linked data at IndieWebCamp.
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GWG
rhiaro: I thought it might have been inspired by his recent discussion about it.
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@danielpietzsch
129/365: Learning more about Microformats with @adactio at #IndieWebCamp. http://blog.danielpietzsch.com/post/118524159623/129-365-learning-more-about-microformats-with#_=_ (twtr.io/zEdQfK1nsY)
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LukasRos
„Phone stuff“ session with two people only! :o
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GWG
LukasRos: What is 'phone stuff'?
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aaronpk
leaning about building offline apps with serviceworkers in the "Foo" room
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@jkphl
.@glennjones on offline apps and service workers #IndieWebCamp https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/597045548227649536/photo/1 (twtr.io/zEeJ8yZBYG)
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Germany/Schedule (+31) "/* Saturday 2015-05-09 */" (view diff)
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kirilind.me
edited /2015/Germany/Schedule (+166) "/* Saturday 2015-05-09 */" (view diff)
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@davidmead
This is why the #indieweb is so important now @danmerk. Own your data. http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/this-is-why-the-indieweb-is-so-important-now-danmerk (twtr.io/zEg6y_gcqw)
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ben_thatmustbeme
really wish other people could here these discussions ...
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kylewm
huh, I'd assumed the sessions would be in German
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kylewm
(guten morgen indiewebcamp)
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ben_thatmustbeme
initial mock-up of something i'm working on
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ben_thatmustbeme
https://ben.thatmustbe.me/manage/contacts?url=http://tantek.com
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GWG
kylewm: Isn't it afternoon there?
#
GWG
I think I found a way to make the WordPress people happy and get what I want at the same time.
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GWG
Of course, I've been wrong before.
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@icymihn
IndieWeb http://indiewebify.me/ comm: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9511773 (twtr.io/zEiy5pr_y8)
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kylewm
GWG: how did the discussion with wordpress about adding mf2 to core go?
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GWG
kylewm: No interest or comments. I'm trying a less direct way
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GWG
I'm trying to wrap it in a broader focus and see if anyone bites.
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GWG
There is only one real place in core that has classic microformats. A function called post_class, which adds hentry to everything.
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GWG
I'm trying to get the function superseded.
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@bl1nk
@bastianallgeier Ever thought about writing an article about making kirby ready for the indieweb? (webmentions, weblogin etc) (twtr.io/zEkQ8Gci2Q)
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GWG
At the same time, I'm working on my ideas as a plugin, so I can show proof of concept.
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aaronpk
some thoughts for tomorrow's sessions http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/day2
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tantek
good evening IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf!
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tantek
the morning demos sounded amazing
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@bastianallgeier
@bl1nk there’s a good chance there will be a webmentions plugin after tomorrow. (twtr.io/zEo90StTpL)
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tantek
reads logs and tweets
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kylewm
tantek: would you please mark @ExplodingAds and @offeryour as spam?
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tantek
!spam ExplodingAds
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tantek
!spammer ExplodingAds
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Loqi
Got it! There are now 21 spammers blacklisted
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tantek
!spammer offeryour
#
Loqi
Got it! There are now 22 spammers blacklisted
#
tantek
and all caught up on logs - seems like they were pretty quiet after demos
#
tantek
hopes rhiaro kept the LD session focused on solving user-centric problems rather than "what ifs" and other theory ;)
#
tantek
posted a bunch of likes of tweets - curious about how those show up in various readers - i.e. are readers intelligently collapsing them - or do they show up as individual line-items (thus flooding).
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tantek
e.g. in Monocle (cc aaronpk) and kylewm's reader (Woodwind?)
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kylewm
flooding, although I don't mind it, and would like to start pulling in a link-preview of like posts
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tantek
kylewm: interesting, so you're thinking the opposite direction - rather than collapsing adjacent/similar like posts, you're thinking of expanding them all
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tantek
which is actually what FB did in one their UI experiments, e.g. see screenshot here: http://indiewebcamp.com/Facebook#Prefers_Pageviews_Over_Efficient_UX
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kylewm
yes, something like, generate a preview from the original post if possible; failing that use the u-like-of h-cite or u-repost-of h-cite
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kylewm
the latter to capture acegiak's tumblr reposts that i won't be able to generate from mf2
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tantek
note the person "reading" (top left corner small icon) is *different* from the photo post, then the like post
#
tantek
re: tumblr posts - I wonder if it's possible to make a microformats2 shim for tumblr the way BarnabyWalters did for Twitter permalinks
#
tantek
anyway - enjoy the test case of lots of likes while it's at the top of my site - I'm going out for a quick run :)
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kylewm
lol, tantek knows no jetlag
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kylewm
enjoy!
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@seb_ly
If anyone at @btconf at the NH hotel has a standard USB cable can you let me know? Thanks! #st4i #IndieWebCamp (twtr.io/zEs47e7Y3E)
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tantek
ok now, I'm going for a run (had to take care of a few things) - kylewm here's a better link for that integrated reading + expansion of like to link preview example: https://indiewebcamp.com/reader#Integrated_Activity_Reading
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ben_thatmustbeme
hello all
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GWG
Hello ben_thatmustbeme
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KevinMarks_
http://www.producthunt.com/posts/known-pro some interest here
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@LukasRosenstock
Any #indiewebcamp folks in Düsseldorf with plans for the evening, e.g. dinner, who I could join? Tweet me! (twtr.io/zEuxfGZXaU)
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HugoDaniel
hello
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GWG
Hello HugoDaniel
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HugoDaniel
hi GWG
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HugoDaniel
im interested in the indie web :)
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HugoDaniel
i have been doing a personal server with a very similar purpose to the one described on your site
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GWG
HugoDaniel: You've come to the right place
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GWG
HugoDaniel: What is the URL?
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HugoDaniel
keep your own data, work offline sync online, run multiple services in a single click and a friendly dashboard ui
#
HugoDaniel
not yet released, but hope to do it very soon
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GWG
HugoDaniel: What is your biggest desire to achieve for yourself?
#
GWG
What do you want to be able to do?
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HugoDaniel
in life ?
#
HugoDaniel
or with this ?
#
HugoDaniel
:D
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GWG
HugoDaniel: In this. For example, I have been moving toward owning my bookmarks. Keeping them on my site instead of in a Read It Later service.
#
HugoDaniel
with this i hope to allow developers to easily code their tools for the web in a free distributed way, or to allow people to achieve things that are not easily possible with today browser technology
#
HugoDaniel
i have a personal project that was the main motivator, a online remixer for the modern web, hope to start a kickstarter for it soon
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GWG
HugoDaniel: Community wise, we tend to focus on personal goals, but we have a few people who are building bigger solutions.
#
HugoDaniel
imagina plug in your mpc drum machine via usb and play together with other people on the web
#
HugoDaniel
stream your sessions or record them for future ref.
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GWG
HugoDaniel: It sounds interesting. I wish you luck with that.
#
HugoDaniel
thanks
#
HugoDaniel
what kind of personal goals ?
#
HugoDaniel
simple things ?
#
HugoDaniel
like owning your feed ?
#
HugoDaniel
given the current state i guess that would actually not be a simple thing :/
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GWG
HugoDaniel: Taking control of what you do online.
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GWG
For example, post to your own website and syndicate that to other sites. Pull back responses.
#
HugoDaniel
nice
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HugoDaniel
like salmon protocol
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GWG
For example, I can post something on my site, you can reply to it on yours. My site will display your reply. So, each side has a copy of the interaction.
#
GWG
HugoDaniel: We are trying for simpler, but yes.
#
GWG
Salmon is a bit complicated.
#
HugoDaniel
yes
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GWG
What we do is html based for the most part
#
HugoDaniel
oh cool
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HugoDaniel
microdata
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KevinMarks_
microformats, rather
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HugoDaniel
i have to read up on that
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GWG
HugoDaniel: Our wiki is full of interesting information.
#
GWG
KevinMarks_: Did you catch the conversation on TWIG this week? It was one I wished you had been around to advocate during.
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HugoDaniel
im looking at it
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GWG
HugoDaniel: You can also just ask.
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GWG
What is the Indieweb?
#
Loqi
The indieweb is about owning your domain and using it as your primary identity, to publish on your own site (optionally syndicate elsewhere), and ownyourdata https://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb
#
GWG
We have the wiki linked to the room
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KevinMarks_
not heard this week's TWiG yet - what part?
#
GWG
KevinMarks_: The gang was discussing posting on their own sites vs places like Medium.
#
KevinMarks_
oh boy
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GWG
KevinMarks_: Exactly.
#
GWG
KevinMarks_: I'd better get a better venue for our next HWC in NYC
#
GWG
I think I proposed a deli to zachdonovan
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tantek___
GWG I will be in NYC 2015-05-20 - hope I can make it to your HWC meetup!
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tantek___
HugoDaniel, welcome! And what's your personal site?
#
GWG
tantek___: I'd better borrow a venue quick.
#
GWG
I think switching to a food venue until more interest grows is a safe bet.
#
GWG
tantek___: Either way, I think you are a big attraction.
#
GWG
You know people.
#
@johannesdachsel
Had a great first day at #IndieWebCamp #btconf (twtr.io/zF0wVtFWcs)
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GWG
Apparently, I'm still tab challenged in my programming.
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@danbri
RT @jkphl: #IndieWebCamp folks: You may use http://micrometa.jkphl.is to visualize both @microformats and http://schema.org data at the s… (twtr.io/zF8ZaDD1_w)
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@Bill_Riley
RT @jkphl: #IndieWebCamp folks: You may use http://micrometa.jkphl.is to visualize both @microformats and http://schema.org data at the s… (twtr.io/zF8c297T4Z)
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aaronpk
omg i think i just figured out why the wiki was logging some people out randomly
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: why?
#
aaronpk
http://aaron.pk/b4b41
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KartikPrabhu
so why some people? should that not have happened for everyone?
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aaronpk
i think it depended on how long it had been since you were last there, and the random number generator on the server
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KartikPrabhu
weird
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aaronpk
the cron job goes and cleans up "old" sessions randomly
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ben_thatmustbeme
Not exactly randomly. Every 30 minutes
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aaronpk
every 30 minutes with a random probabiliy
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ben_thatmustbeme
In other words it just deletes expired sessions. .. did people bout expect their sessions to expire?
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aaronpk
http://php.net/manual/en/sessionhandler.gc.php "The frequency this is called is based on the session.gc_divisor and session.gc_probability configuration directives."
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aaronpk
and "Sessions that have not updated for the last maxlifetime seconds will be removed."
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aaronpk
so it's *possible* that your session would be removed after maxlifetime, nbut not guaranteed
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ben_thatmustbeme
So every 30 minutes cron cleans up what php hasn't randomly done itself
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aaronpk
and definiely coming to the wiki often would extend your session
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aaronpk
anyway i made maxlifetime like 3 months so you should stay logged in way longer now
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@aaronpk
Note to self: Don't add the appcache header to your site template so that it renders on every page... #indieweb (twtr.io/zFCgrNAaJQ)
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk, its possible, but the max would be only 30 minutes after your session expired
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ben_thatmustbeme
and even with that, the server should not be using a session that is past max lifetime whether or not it was deleted yet
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aaronpk
the problem is when the php runtime sets a different value than is in the ini file
#
aaronpk
because the cron job uses the ini setting
#
aaronpk
but you may have overridden the lifetime in code
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ben_thatmustbeme
0_o
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ben_thatmustbeme
so 3 month sessions
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ben_thatmustbeme
yay
#
Loqi
:D
#
aaronpk
crossing my fingers
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ben_thatmustbeme
hope that doesn't get too crowded
#
aaronpk
we'll see what other obscure thing i run into next
#
ben_thatmustbeme
still need to roll in that heartbeat for the logs beta chat
#
aaronpk
what's that?
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ben_thatmustbeme
so you don't get that issue of people's nicks stuck logged in
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ben_thatmustbeme
i had found some code to fix it
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aaronpk
ah right
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ben_thatmustbeme
also, working on this right now https://ben.thatmustbe.me/manage/contacts?url=http://tantek.com
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@fdevillamil
💫@joelgascoigne publish on your own blog, then duplicate on Medium. Your blog might survive Medium after all. #indieweb (twtr.io/zFE2s9fnrU)
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@hereinthehive
@seb_ly Ahh the modern world. Suck doesn't it! How did #IndieWebCamp go? (twtr.io/zFEMN7Xct6)
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@Rrfly
RT @fdevillamil: 💫@joelgascoigne publish on your own blog, then duplicate on Medium. Your blog might survive Medium after all. #indieweb (twtr.io/zFFmnwV7uf)
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Jeena
the worst thing with POSSE is that freaking Facebook keeps changing their API which breaks my website at least once a year
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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GWG
I just got the WordPress release lead for 4.3 commenting on my hfeed issue. That is promising.
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: Jeena: we definitely commiserate, we've had to do lots for bridgy too :/
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@berrydm
IndieWeb http://indiewebify.me/ (twtr.io/zFTy6NXn3U)
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GWG
snarfed: I have a bit of a dilemma that includes you again.
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, not sure brid.gy liked the non english slug
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ben_thatmustbeme
https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1431213566&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyGAsSB1R3aXR0ZXIiC2Rpc3NvbHZlMzMzDA
#
GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: What are you up to?
#
Loqi
Welcome to news about the IndieWeb where recent notable articles about the IndieWeb are cited and linked to keep you up to date https://indiewebcamp.com/you_up_to
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KevinMarks_
python 2.7 is a bugger like that
#
tefka
I have a question ... why does the "indieweb software" collection mostly consist of blogging software ? why is there no software for other activities related to the web ?
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KevinMarks_
becasue that's what we've mostly been building for our own sites
#
KevinMarks_
what kind of thing do you want?
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frzn
tefka: gnu does other kind of softwares
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@zdrojak
RT @jkphl: #IndieWebCamp folks: You may use http://micrometa.jkphl.is to visualize both @microformats and http://schema.org data at the s… (twtr.io/zFWc4L278o)
#
tefka
for example, there does not seem to be a videochat software (like skype) which has this kind of philosophy and is easy to use
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KevinMarks_
well, talky.io is close - we use that a lot
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tefka
true, some things come close .. but still
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GWG
tefka: Video chatting is a hard one because of bandwidth.
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KevinMarks_
well, WebRTC is an indieweb friendly way of doing it, but you still need some STUN infrastucture
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tefka
why is that GWG, the bandwidth is obviously there, since there are enough comercial applications that people use
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GWG
tefka: Worldwide, not everyone has it. Most likely many people in here do though
#
KartikPrabhu
what is indieweb?
#
Loqi
The indieweb is about owning your domain and using it as your primary identity, to publish on your own site (optionally syndicate elsewhere), and ownyourdata https://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb
#
KartikPrabhu
tefka: mostly because of focus on that ^
#
tefka
it is just that indieweb seems to be a pretty "new" thing and it does not seem to go all the way with "own your data/software"
#
KevinMarks_
what is indieweb friendly?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "indieweb friendly" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=indieweb+friendly&summary=prompted+by+KevinMarks_+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-09%2Fline%2F1431216491129
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KevinMarks_
hm
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KevinMarks_
I thought we did
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tefka
at least not yet
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tefka
do you own talky.io's software ?
#
KevinMarks_
tefka: well, if it's something you value, think about how to build it
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Loqi
[mention] http://blog.explodingads.com/?p=8253 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc (pingback)
#
@socialmediamond
willnorris comments on "IndieWeb" - http://blog.explodingads.com/?p=8253 - #startup #trending #socialmedia #news #business #marketing #entrepreneur www… (twtr.io/zFXbJnSu0Z)
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KartikPrabhu
man what is up with these sites just reproducing other stuff.
#
tefka
I mean talky.io has to at least operate rendezvous servers and manage rooms/chats .. I dunno much about it though
#
KartikPrabhu
tefka: isn't that the trouble with video-chatting though? it is hard to do peer-to-peer video chatting without maintaining some intermediate central server thing
#
tefka
yea, hard as in impossible at the moment .. still, you guys apparently have a blog hosted on a server on your own "personal" domain, it would seem logical to host such an intermediate server as well
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KartikPrabhu
a good intermediate is to figure out how to do text chats
#
KartikPrabhu
what is messaging?
#
Loqi
messaging refers to one user sending another user a message (memo, letter, etc.) https://indiewebcamp.com/messaging
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tefka
hasn't text already been solved with xmpp ?
#
KartikPrabhu
not site to site
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KartikPrabhu
afaik
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kylewm
http://moose-team.github.io/friends/ is a cool project working on p2p chat based on WebRTC (like talky)
#
KartikPrabhu
the question isn't about technology/plumbing but how to do text chats using your own domain
#
kylewm
sorry KartikPrabhu, a cool project working on chat that you can install on your own domain
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tefka
*could* , but still uses github for identification
#
KartikPrabhu
tefka: one step at a time. it is not fair to ask for everything under the sun from any of these projects
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tefka
sorry ^^
#
KartikPrabhu
most indieweb code has a github home
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tefka
it seems the problems are 90% solved, and the remaining 10% is to put it onto your own domain and have it use that
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KartikPrabhu
that is the hard 10%
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ben_thatmustbeme
*reads back a little
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ben_thatmustbeme
XMPP is an option but its a bit much to ask everyone to run their own XMPP server
#
ben_thatmustbeme
maybe specifying you xmpp user@server... but that gets in to the problems of spam and such
#
ben_thatmustbeme
would have to really dig in to more of XMPP to really say much more on the topic
#
ben_thatmustbeme
as to why is everything blog software, simple, its the easiest place to start
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i'm just now branching in to trying to own my contact list
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ben_thatmustbeme
building up from follow/unfollow
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually the first step is really using your domain as your identity
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ben_thatmustbeme
anywhere that I can now, when i create an account, i use my domain name as my username
#
ben_thatmustbeme
thats step 1, and there really isn't much software needed for it outside of indieauth
#
ben_thatmustbeme
although i worry we need more auth providers as it is a single point of failure at the moment.
#
ben_thatmustbeme
with a few notable exceptions, we all use it
#
ben_thatmustbeme
also, i'm not officially rambling
#
ben_thatmustbeme
s/not/now/
#
Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: also, i'm now officially rambling
#
GWG
I'm fine with your rambling if you accept mine. We all ramble sometime or another.
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GWG
I'm trying to see how many people I can annoy with my code styling, it seems.
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Vendan
question, I'm building my own indieweb compliant blog software, following http://indiewebify.me/
#
Vendan
does it make sense to use indieauth.com or similar for my own login to my site?
#
GWG
Vendan: Indieauth is a tool. You can roll your own authentication if you wanted. Your choice
#
Vendan
lol, honestly, I'm sick of rolling web auth stuff. Considering it's just me logging in, a simple hardcoded check or similar wouldn't be that bad.
#
kylewm
Vendan: indieauth is maybe slightly harder than rolling your own password-based authentication if you just have one user. the payoff comes if you want to allow others to sign in to your site
#
kylewm
(but really only slightly)
#
GWG
Vendan: You don't need to reinvent the wheel.
#
GWG
Using a preexisting library, for example, is not against the Indieweb principles
#
Vendan
there really isn't a preexisting library, tbh
#
Vendan
at least nothing I'd be interested in using
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GWG
That is a problem
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Vendan
programming in golang, and really, even if I went as far as actually doing hashes and such, its not like it's a massive amount of code
#
GWG
But someone has to be the trendsetter
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Vendan
preexisting library for a simple password auth system?
#
Vendan
80% of it is just templates to render...
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Vendan
I'm just not going to go overboard with email verification and password recovery tokens
#
GWG
Vendan, I don't know much about golang.
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Vendan
it's a lot of fun :)
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Vendan
trying to build as simple of a blog as possible
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Vendan
2~3 files to install on about any platform
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Vendan
including most shared hosting
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Vendan
plus, even a $5 DO droplet would be overkill
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GWG
I just finished feeling comfortable with PHP.
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Vendan
probably make a "multi-user" version, like wordpress.com
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Vendan
but with the distinction that a there's a single file to download that'll contain your whole blog, and you can just push that up to another host, and boom, there's your blog again
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think the advantage of indieauth is really being able to use a number of micropub clients that assume you are using some sort of auth endpoint complient with indieauth
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Vendan
yeah, I get that
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ben_thatmustbeme
I use it for login to my own site (single user)
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Vendan
interesting
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ben_thatmustbeme
the only thing is a need to bootstrap so you can get those initial configs (twitter/FB/github/etc) links to allow it to work
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ben_thatmustbeme
also as I stated, i'm concerned that there is only 1 indieauth. we really need to use multiple as the docs on indieauth.com are rather the shortcut method that will mean it will only work for sites using indieauth
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ben_thatmustbeme
but if you are designing just for the site owner itself, thats not really an issue
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Vendan
do you have any stuff where other users can log in for any reason, or is it just your access to your own admin panel?
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Vendan
one question with the indieauth approach is that if indieauth.com goes down, everyone who's using it has to rewrite their stuff to use a new service
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Vendan
one reason I'm leaning away from it for my use
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ben_thatmustbeme
so I did have stuff for others to get extra info if they are logged in to my site
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ben_thatmustbeme
i recently made that section public anyway though
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ben_thatmustbeme
also if others log in to my site they can get links to edit their own comments (through mp-config)
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ben_thatmustbeme
also they can use my micropub client if they want
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ben_thatmustbeme
Vendan: I agree, except i believe indieauth.com is open source
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ben_thatmustbeme
so you could easily fork it and make your own
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ben_thatmustbeme
and it should be fully compliant
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Vendan
it is, but no matter what, existing sites would need to rewrite code to use the new "gateway", unless you managed to get the "indieauth.com" domain name
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ben_thatmustbeme
its literally a 1 line change
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Vendan
I have a tendency to write code that can be used by anyone, and I don't want to lock people out of their accounts cause a third-party site went down
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GWG
Actually, if I remember correctly, the existing sites are supposed to get authentication server info from the page itself.
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ben_thatmustbeme
its just changing the html to point to a different auth endpoint
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GWG
http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol
#
GWG
The protocol says that it looks for a link to the authorization endpoint. If people aren't implementing discovery, that owuld be on them.
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Vendan
ahh, that's not as bad, but still an issue
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ben_thatmustbeme
it would be entirely possible to use the indieauthprotocol with just a fixed password, ignore the rel-me-auth part
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Vendan
cause it's still my site that has the auth link and such
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ben_thatmustbeme
and it would not take long to write up
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ben_thatmustbeme
i wonder if we should allow multiple auth endpoints
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ben_thatmustbeme
to allow for failover
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GWG
Well, the protocol falls over onto indieauth
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GWG
Why not be able to specify it?
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: ben_thatmustbeme yup, sorry, your twitter bridgy acct is broken right now due to that Unicode url
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: tracked in <https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/402>
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ben_thatmustbeme
snarfed: I'm always breaking stuff
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: heh np. PRs welcome for fixing stuff too! :P
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually you don't ping the auth endpoint until you redirect the user there... i think you are right about being able to maybe select auth endpoints if there are multiple listed
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Vendan
urgh, unicode issues :P
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ben_thatmustbeme
snarfed... not a python guy... wouldn't know where to start honestly
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ben_thatmustbeme
well... i would know where to start
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ben_thatmustbeme
but it would not be a quick fix for me
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: np!
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tantek
good evening #indiewebcamp
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GWG
Good evening, tantek
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ben_thatmustbeme
evening tantek
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tantek.com
edited /next-hwc (+0) "next is 20th!" (view diff)
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GWG
Speaking of HWC...People who have been to HWCs, what sort of food venue is good for them, considering I can't get a centrally located non-food venue.
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tantek.com
edited /Main_Page (+15) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next is 2015-05-20" (view diff)
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tantek
GWG, cafe style - where you order at the counter separately
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GWG
tantek: Makes me think of Schnippers, that place we ate at during IWC NYC
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tantek.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+260) "/* Planning Questions */ What kind of food venue is works well?" (view diff)
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GWG
Hmm...that might work
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tantek
GWG, I'm adding your questions to https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club#Planning_Questions :)
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GWG
It's centrally located, easy to get to...
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tantek
GWG, is there an indie event for the NYC 2015-05-20 HWC?
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GWG
tantek: I added the Facebook one, but not the Indie one. I still haven't coded events into my site
#
tantek
GWG, ok no problem. Are events on your site an itch for you, at least as a Homebrew Website Club organizer? https://indiewebcamp.com/User:David.shanske.com#Itches
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: XMPP is quite problematic. It's a massive spec that no one has ever fully implemented, that there's no comprehensive (or even feature covering) test suite for, and which everyone (who bothers to) implements only part.
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GWG
tantek: Not until I attend more of them.
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GWG
That's why I started on check-in...
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tantek
GWG, but as an organizer, it's better if you post an indie event and make the FB event the POSSE copy :)
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tantek
So it's gotta at least be a lower priority itch for you ;)
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tantek
what is XMPP?
#
Loqi
Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) is an open messaging standard, perhaps best known in its use for cross-platform instant-messaging application interoperability https://indiewebcamp.com/XMPP
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GWG
!tell zachdonovan tantek gave me, inadvertently, a good venue idea
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com
edited /XMPP (+352) "Issues" (view diff)
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GWG
tantek: My next project is refining my existing projects to be in line with the WordPress developer standards while making some improvements. I will likely be laying the groundwork for further post kinds in there, so I can use the Post UI I just built to input them.
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Vendan
does anyone use bootstrap for their indieweb stuff?
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GWG
Not specifically.
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Vendan
I really suck as a designer, so my site's ui is currently extremely minimal :)
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tantek
Vendan, I believe Known used to and is in the process of abandoning it becacuse bootstrap is too much of a pain to evolve / iterate :(
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Vendan
lol, I can see that
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tantek.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+579) "/* Structure */ before the event, create event(s), invite etc." (view diff)
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tantek
GWG, see https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club#Beforehand
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Vendan
I've got a very template friendly system so far, so I'm not terribly worried about changing stuff like that
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Vendan
brb
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tantek
GWG, in particular, could you set the HWC NYC FB event header photo to: http://indiewebcamp.com/images/5/5d/im-attending-indiewebcamp.png like the way that Kyle did for the previous HWC SF? https://www.facebook.com/events/868304959882663/
#
tantek
(and yes I added that to the organizer instructions on /hwc )
#
GWG
Done
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: xmpp sounds like push in that regard. . A giant spec that never gets fully implemented
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tantek.com
edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+398) "/* Beforehand */ link FB POSSE copy to wiki" (view diff)
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: PuSH is *tiny* compared to XMPP
#
tantek
Thanks GWG
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tantek
GWG, next, at the end of the description in the FB event, link to the indiewebcamp wiki page for the event, e.g. like: "More information: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club "
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david.shanske.com
edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+11) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
Oh wow. THAT big huh?
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: PuSH is a very small spec, just in general
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kylewm
tantek: Vendan: Known is moving to Bootstrap 3
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@JimVajda
I HATE and refuse to use software that locks-in user data. Fitness apps are among the worst. Luckily there is @tapiriik. #OwnYourData (twtr.io/zFjrXavEzC)
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ben_thatmustbeme
Btw. Started working on setting up my site for '(un)follow' via micropub
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tantek
hey kylewm! Could you post an indie event and FB POSSE copy for HWC SF 2015-05-20 as well? (I'm going to be in NYC, so maybe Creamery again?)
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kylewm
sure
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tantek
thanks!
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GWG
tantek: Maybe if you are there, the RSVPers will show.
#
tantek
GWG - I'm going to both invite people on the FB event and message them personally
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kylewm
Vendan: aaronpk uses bootstrap a lot, too. aaronparecki.com, quill.p3k.io, monocle.p3k.io, etc.
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tantek
and I'm going to invite the entire CSS Working Group
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kylewm
also https://brid.gy
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tantek
kylewm, hmm that sounds like it's worth capturing...
#
tantek
what is Bootstrap?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Bootstrap" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Bootstrap&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-09%2Fline%2F1431225570888
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kylewm
just checked, I was surprised by that^
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tantek
sounds like you know of a lot of IndieWeb Examples as well
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Vendan
http://getbootstrap.com/ css and js for programmers to use for making decent designs
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tantek
kylewm: surprised about Known using BS3. I know Ben & Erin's new not-so-secret project does not use Bootstrap. The podcast thing.
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Vendan
ugh, so many pretty designs. Could not make anything close :P
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kylewm
tantek: interesting! I didn't realize wavelist wasn't... http://known.co/ does use bootstrap too
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tantek
kylewm: yes they have a lot of early usage for it - but my understanding from last time I spoke with Ben in person is that they're trying hard to move away from it.
#
kylewm
Bootstrap is a large collection of boilerplate HTML and CSS styles and components originally developed by Twitter. http://getbootstrap.com
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loqi.me
created /Bootstrap (+165) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-09/line/1431225570888 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi
ok
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Vendan
one of my main complaints with bootstrap is that you wind up with a semantic class and multiple display classes
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GWG
Vendan: You shouldn't style basic on a semantic class.
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Vendan
why not?
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GWG
Standards change.
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Vendan
i.e. why not style based on h-entry?
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GWG
Design and structure are different things
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tantek
Vendan, it depends. For a quick deployment of a site you don't expect to restructure / iterate much (if at all), you can totally get away with styling semantic classes (e.g. h-entry)
#
Vendan
then you'll need to change the h-entry, and with any kind of decent css preprocessor, that change takes 30 seconds to change in your css
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GWG
If you are starting from scratch, better to plan from the beginning.
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tantek
However, if you end up iterating a bunch on your site (with design etc.) you will have to do a lot more work.
#
GWG
I'm trying to get hfeed out of the most common base for WordPress themes and find a way to get hentry out of WordPress the way it is implemented in a way they'll except.
#
GWG
I may be trying to convince them of the same...semantic markup shouldn't be styled.
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GWG
accept, not except, excuse me
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tantek
Vendan - in practice a bunch of us have been bitten by this - so it's not just 30 seconds of change - especially depending on what your CSS rules are like
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tantek
the other scenario, which GWG points out, is multi-person development.
#
tantek
If more than one person is working on the HTML and/or CSS for a site, then it's even more important to separate classes for styling and *purely* semantic classes.
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GWG
I use WordPress, and I've rewritten my theme three times in the last year.
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GWG
And I'm still rewriting it, because I discovered a mistake.
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Vendan
interesting, most of the articles I've seen talk about the exact opposite
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kylewm.com
edited /Bootstrap (+592) "add detail to description and IndieWeb Examples" (view diff)
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Loqi
[mention] https://kylewm.com/2015/05/homebrew-website-club-2015-may-20 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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kylewm
Vendan: have you tried logging into the indiewebcamp.com wiki yet with your domain?
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Vendan
nope, my domain isn't running my indieweb stuff yet
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Vendan
developing locally, cause having an IDE rocks :)
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tantek
Vendan, yes, a lot of us wrote articles like that in the past :/
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tantek
it took a while, and many iterations of changing markup and style sheets to figure this out
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Vendan
the main thing that I see is that if I just styled the right semantic classes, I could drop replys and such in my markup without too much effort, other then a basic sanitization
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tantek
Vendan, yes, in theory (and in practice initially) you can get pretty far with that approach
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Vendan
if I have my own class names for styles, I have to process those replys to insert my class names
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tantek
you shouldn't be putting others markup in your page anyway! that's an XSS vulnerability
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kylewm.com
edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+168) "/* Where */ add SF venue" (view diff)
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Vendan
uhm, I sanitize, thank you very much
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kylewm.com
edited /events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club (+73) "/* URLs */ add urls" (view diff)
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Vendan
heck, with the sanitization library I use, I can go all the way down to "only allow these specific classes on divs"
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tantek
Vendan, which sanitization library?
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Vendan
https://github.com/microcosm-cc/bluemonday
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Vendan
it's rather hardcore in the standard mode, I'd actually be relaxing it some to allow those classes through
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tantek
nice name :)
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Vendan
lol
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Vendan
it's "meant" to be paired with blackfriday, a golang markdown processor
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tantek
not a New Order reference?
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Vendan
oh, it is
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tantek.com
created /sanitization (+22) "r" (view diff)
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Vendan
https://github.com/microcosm-cc/bluemonday/issues/12#issuecomment-83593192
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tantek.com
edited /sanitize (+35) "more dfn terms" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /sanitize (+70) "/* Approaches */ add bluemonday sanitization library" (view diff)
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tantek
cool. added it here: https://indiewebcamp.com/sanitize
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tantek
Vendan, have you signed into the wiki with your personal domain?
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Vendan
lol, hopefully I'll be adding my software to that wiki in the next couple of days
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Vendan
heh, not yet, my software is only running on my desktop right now
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kylewm
Heh tantek i just asked them that
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Vendan
I'm just rather hardcore on efficient code, and php and similar is too much of a bloat to install on my vps
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Vendan
and I'm not touching WP with a 20-foot pool
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Vendan
I guess I could just put up a temporary index.html on my domain though
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Vendan
there, logged in
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tantek
Vendan++ for just getting it done with a simple index.html
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Loqi
Vendan has 1 karma
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Vendan
well, I really just edited my current hugo static blog, but I'm going to replace the whole thing with my own software soon :)
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Vendan
vendaria.net
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tantek
next go ahead and add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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tantek
and if you add an image, it will show up next to your statements in the logs: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today
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vendaria.net
edited /IRC_People (+52) "Adding myself" (view diff)
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tantek
Vendan: are you in New York City by any chance? Next event there is in a week and half: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-05-20-homebrew-website-club
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Vendan
actually in NC, wish I could show up to events
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Vendan
new york is just timezone :(
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GWG
Vendan: I'm trying to get the NY meeting up and coming. You could always find some friends and start something in NC?
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Vendan
I'll see about it, if anyone is interested at the local hackerspaces
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Vendan
heh, there isn't anything golang obvious on https://indiewebcamp.com/projects
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Vendan
I get to be first :)
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tantek
Vendan - I think sandro wrote a webmention handler in golang at IWC Cambridge 2014
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tantek
let me check the demos
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Vendan
well, I'm aiming for full blogish type stuff
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Vendan
would be useful, depending on licensing
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tantek
I'd guess it was pretty open, sandro works for W3C
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Vendan
is there any kind of recommended licensing? I usually go MIT or AGPL
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tantek
Vendan, lots of MIT/BSD/CC0
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tantek
found it - sandro worked on code to import old LJ posts, using Go http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-12#t1413150688156
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tantek
from LJ's XML export
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tantek
but I can't find any record of the code being posted online so ...
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tantek
go for it Vendan :)
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Vendan
lol
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Vendan
using a lot of stuff I worked on for my wiki, so the first bit of it is rather simple
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Vendan
kicking myself for not pushing it all to github yet, cause I'm away from my main desktop
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Vendan
heh, that micropub stuff is neat
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GWG
Vendan: Isn't it?
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Vendan
there's so many small, relatively easy to implement little "features" on the indieweb stuff that just adds up to a massive "holy crap that's awesome" when it all works together
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tantek
what are building blocks?
#
Loqi
https://indiewebcamp.com/building-blocks
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GWG
Vendan: That's why we like it.
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tantek
kylewm, GWG I've invited a bunch of people to the FB events for the next HWC
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tantek
get ready for the Bridgy invitation flood! (assuming that still works / got fixed)
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GWG
As soon as I talk to zachdonovan, time to confirm a venue/time
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snarfed
tantek: not yet, in progress. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/397
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Vendan
heh, makes me want to get a shared hosting account again, just so I can get the fastcgi stuff working right with golang
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GWG
snarfed: I'm still having trouble with backfeed from bridgy.
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snarfed
GWG: ruh roh, sorry
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snarfed
still?
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snarfed
which silo(s)?
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GWG
snarfed: Facebook. On the user page, it says it found no post links. But in the log, it found the u-syndication links.
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snarfed
have you re-authed recently?
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GWG
So, if it found both, why is it not sending the webmentions?
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GWG
snarfed: Not recently. Should I?
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snarfed
0-
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snarfed
er, yes, please. 2.x api apocalypse. :/ https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/394 and https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/401
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GWG
Where is the reauth again?
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snarfed
um, front page
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GWG
IT is finding the responses, but it isn't sending webmentions, even though it says it is saving the relationship
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snarfed
looking
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snarfed
GWG: i don't actually see that it's finding syndication urls
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snarfed
maybe the log messages are misleading
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snarfed
it's *looking* for them for each FB post url, not finding anything, and saving a blank relnship
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snarfed
ah, looks like your syndication URLs use your nickname instead of your id: https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1431230515&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyIQsSDEZhY2Vib29rUGFnZSIPMTAwMDAyMzU2NTAzMTY3DA
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GWG
snarfed: They are coming from SNAP automatically that way.
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snarfed
bridgy has limited support (or maybe none) for FB syndication URLs w/nicknames right now, due to 2.x API apocalypse
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GWG
Can't win, I guess
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snarfed
sorry :(
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snarfed
if you can get the synd urls in there with your user id, it will work
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GWG
I just found it.
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snarfed
FB 2.x API literally prevents us from mapping nicknames to user ids and vice versa
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GWG
There's a setting in SNAP for it
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snarfed
https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/350
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GWG
What about the user telling you what the username is?
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GWG
So, now that I changed the links...will it ever rescan?
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snarfed
sure, of course! every 2h
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GWG
Okay. That should work
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snarfed
i can't say i'd prioritize letting users input usernames
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GWG
snarfed: At least I found a setting to override it. I didn't realize it was there.
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snarfed
we're kind of burnt out on bending over backwards to handle FB's breaking API changes
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snarfed
good!
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GWG
I was thinking of trying petermolnar's project
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GWG
https://wordpress.org/plugins/keyring-reactions-importer/
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tantek
!tell aaronpk how's the realtime display of responses (comments, likes, reposts) working on your notes? I remember something was broken last october - haven't checked since.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
snarfed: I wish people would respond more elsewhere
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Vendan
does realtime display include ajaxy updates while on the page, or just better then static site generation?
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tantek
Vendan - better than just Ajaxy updates - updates from the server via websockets!
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Vendan
ahh, neat
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tantek
what is realtime?
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Loqi
Realtime is a well-defined software field where computing has to complete or fail cleanly by a deadline, because latency is paramount https://indiewebcamp.com/Realtime
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Vendan
though also, ugh, as I hate js
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tantek
well that page is not very useful
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Vendan
that's the embedded programming and such def. of realtime
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GWG
snarfed: I wanted to mention I stabilized the webaction handler. You'd just have to add a filter and a hook to store it in your preferred formats and open up the closed types.
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tantek.com
edited /How_to_set_up_your_realtime_feed (+35) "see also, linky" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /comments-presentation (+24) "see also realtime" (view diff)
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Tantek.com * moved [[Realtime]] to [[realtime]]: decap term
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snarfed
GWG: great!
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tantek.com
edited /realtime (+193) "link to specific examples" (view diff)
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Vendan
that's also more complex, as websocket isn't really compatible with fastcgi and such
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GWG
snarfed: And the category code has a filter. And should be familiar. You wrote the original version. I borrowed the logic you created for micropub that looks for categories, if not, saves as tags.
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snarfed
nice!
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GWG
I just couldn't decide on whether I wanted to write display code when I had it in Post Kinds. So I tabled that. But I made sure it would work without it.
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@hmans
@nd_cmptr Wobei ich den einen ja auf seine Art wirklich spot-on finde. Wir sind alle indoktriniert und IndieWeb verkauft sich oft schlecht. (twtr.io/zFvEmCAbsH)
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GWG
It is also using OpenGraph to get data, instead of microformats. Which I am only partly ashamed of.
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GWG
Most of the news sites I read had no microformats
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tantek
GWG, do you ever bookmark indieweb posts? or only news sites?
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GWG
tantek: More news sites. But, I decided that, after that trouble, I would add microformats during a later update
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tantek
GWG, sounds good
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tantek
what was the data quality like of the OpenGraph data?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "data quality like of the OpenGraph data" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=data+quality+like+of+the+OpenGraph+data&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-09%2Fline%2F1431232628434
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tantek
lol sorry
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GWG
tantek: I parsed dozens of sites to come up with the 'rules' for extraction.
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tantek
GWG, oh dear that sounds like scraping almost :/
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tantek
hopefully with microformats you can just follow the /link-preview tips
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GWG
tantek: Not exactly. The fields are there for people to use to get info about the page
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GWG
I parsed dozens of sites to see who was using what, more than anything else.
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GWG
I kept throwing URLs at it.
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GWG
For example, tantek.com, as you know, has none of that markup.
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GWG
aaronpk appears to be putting the entire post into both the title and description opengraph fields.
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GWG
But newspapers are giving me suggested tags, description...rarely author name...
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GWG
So, I figured if I merge that with microformats support, I should be able to get link previews for most things.
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GWG
Maybe I should document this.
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GWG
What is OpenGraph?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "OpenGraph" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=OpenGraph&summary=prompted+by+GWG+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-05-09%2Fline%2F1431233135645
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GWG
Open Graph is a protocol that places basic metadata into the head of your web page.
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GWG
OpenGraph is a protocol that places basic metadata into the head of your web page.
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loqi.me
created /OpenGraph (+109) "prompted by GWG https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-09/line/1431233135645 and dfn added by GWG" (view diff)
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Loqi
ok
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GWG
I'll go fix that
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david.shanske.com
edited /OpenGraph (+488) (view diff)
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * David.shanske.com * moved [[OpenGraph]] to [[opengraph]]: Case
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david.shanske.com
edited /opengraph (+509) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com
edited /User:David.shanske.com (-50) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com
edited /User:David.shanske.com (+131) "/* Wordpress Development */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
Vendan: I use mf2 classes to style without trouble (so far)
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KartikPrabhu
GWG: isn't OpenGraph facebook specific?
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GWG
KartikPrabhu: No. Facebook is just its most popular supporter. Twitter uses it as well. And it is an open standard.
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KartikPrabhu
ok
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tantek__
GWG, always worth searching the wiki before creating. Note /OGP and other pages there already. Just missed the "OpenGraph" variant
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GWG
Oops
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GWG
I'll go fix it
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tantek__
Perhaps redirect /OpenGraph to existing page and add your new content there?
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david.shanske.com
edited /The-Open-Graph-protocol (+1109) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com
edited /opengraph () "(-1069) Redirected page to [[The-Open-Graph-protocol]]" (view diff)
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GWG
There you are
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@kartik_prabhu
@ThatEmil the way I do it in Django is to have Response model that stores the URL to which the webmention ... more: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/emilbjorklund-django-webmention (twtr.io/zG2Xt4QwAf)
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@btconf
Good morning. Today: 2nd day of #IndieWebCamp and #ST4I workshop. Also setup day for #btconf Düsseldorf. Safe travels for everybody! (twtr.io/zG2nnG14_8)
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@Renaade
@MarcoZehe danke, der Mann muss arbeiten und ich vergnüge mich gleich beim #indiewebcamp ;) (twtr.io/zG3w1wig9L)
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@webgefrickel
RT @btconf: Good morning. Today: 2nd day of #IndieWebCamp and #ST4I workshop. Also setup day for #btconf Düsseldorf. Safe travels for every… (twtr.io/zG7iXB5ZSR)
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tantek
thanks GWG!
(or join via IRC, Matrix, or Slack)