#indiewebcamp 2015-05-29

2015-05-29 UTC
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: why would checking original-post-discovery be any different than checking u-syndication ?
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kylewm
well many people don't include perma(short)cite/links in their tweets, not to mention indie-reposts or indie-likes where it isn't possible
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: checking u-syndication is easier since you have permalink of the post that webmentioned and get mf2 from that. For original-post-discovery there is a long-ish non-trivial algorithm to follow
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KartikPrabhu
specially if no permalinks on POSSE copy
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tantek
ah, assuming you can't follow your nose in those cases
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KartikPrabhu
yes. of course one can do it manually
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tantek
Ok I have a hypothetical reason - untested - which comes to the same conclusion as you KartikPrabhu re: having the u-syndication already there when a webmention receiver retrieves the original: POSSE reply threading
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KartikPrabhu
also that ^
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KartikPrabhu
particularly if for some reason Bridgy backfeed hasn't yet sent the backfeed
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KartikPrabhu
you can still use u-syndication to POSSE a reply to a reply
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tantek
when indie A replies to indie B and sends B a webmention, when B goes to reply to A, if B's copy of A's post already knows the Ap POSSE copy, then B can immediately reply back both to A, and POSSE reply thread their Bp POSSE copy to Ap.
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gRegorLove
kylewm has done that on some replies, I've noticed.
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tantek
it makes it easier to do the right thing, and connect all the replies
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KartikPrabhu
should work on dedup stuff
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tantek
and yes KartikPrabhu it should make de-duping easier since u-syndication is easier to retrieve than it is to do original-post-discovery
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tantek
now where to capture this FAQ with answer with 2 solid reasons
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KartikPrabhu
possibly and link to it from POSSE or some page that has this deduping of comments
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tantek.com
edited /Webmention (+189) "move rel webmention from brainstorming to resolved, id up near discovery, webmention as one of many space separated values"
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Loqi
[mention] Chris Aldrich commented 'I like what you've done with the final product and have always thought about doing something similar myself, particularly after I saw what M...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (http://stream.boffosocko.com/2015/i-like-what-youve-done-with-the-final-product-and)
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tantek.com
edited /Webmention (+1148) "/* How does this solve the spam problem */ note vouch. POSSE or webmention first? Thanks to kylewm and kartikprabhu for reasons."
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tantek.com
edited /POSSE (+229) "/* FAQ */ POSSE or Send Webmentions First - summary answer an link to longer answer on webmentions page"
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tantek
nice post: http://stream.boffosocko.com/2015/i-like-what-youve-done-with-the-final-product-and - in particular: "some of their infrastructure allows one to easily make posts on one's own page which then act as replies on another's site. This is particularly interesting from the viewpoint of teaching wherein students and professors can interact with each other, but still have/own all of their individual work."
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tantek
he's using Known at stream. and then WordPress with indieweb plugins and Bridgy at his main site, e.g. http://boffosocko.com/2015/05/21/category-theory-anyone/ which pulls in replies to the POSSE copy of that post G+!
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GWG
tantek: That is the guy who was watching my development, I think
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@davidmead
I get that @bradcolbow :-) As I'm a believer in #indieweb, I publish my tweets, bookmarks, etc. on my blog then .. http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/i-get-that-bradcolbow---as-im-a-believer-in
(twitter.com/_/status/604095187963392001)
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@bradcolbow
@davidmead Dangit David! stop putting links in your tweets, it's driving me crazy ;)
(twitter.com/_/status/604091541204946944)
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KartikPrabhu
hence I don't think one should put permalinks unless the POSSE copy is truncated. Even then some words like "more at:" would be better
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: I believe that's pretty close to current recommended practice
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KartikPrabhu
oh ok good :)
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KartikPrabhu
on that note, you have yourself experienced people being confused about the strange link like letters at the end of a tweet no?
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tantek
yes, a few
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KartikPrabhu
PSC is not yet a recognized pattern I think
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tantek
it's not that, but rather that it still looks too much like a link and people wonder why it's not clickable
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tantek
instead of wondering why when they click it they see no new content
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KartikPrabhu
hmm yeah that
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tantek.com
edited /Twitter (+587) "/* POSSE abbr note to twitter */ include kartikprabhu's suggestion about More: along with some implications of attempting that approach"
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: ok I captured your "More (at):" suggestion as it seems reasonable
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KartikPrabhu
cool. also good point about "more shortening to accomodate words"
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tantek
are you thinking of implementing it?
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KartikPrabhu
I still manually POSSE with "more: <link>" when shortening is needed
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KartikPrabhu
else I use Bridgy Publish
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tantek
was that a manual POSSE tweet or via Bridgy Publish?
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KartikPrabhu
since when did Twitter start putting "descriptions" for "Trends"
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KartikPrabhu
very annoying and cluttering the Twitter page
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: that's very odd - you're POSSEing a like kind of like a quote?
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tantek.com
edited /Twitter (+260) "/* POSSE abbr note to twitter */ note KartikPrabhu's like example that has a quotation, and then he POSSEd manually as a note to Twitter"
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: KartikPrabhu out of curiosity, would you use bridgy publish for your current manual posses if you could customize the ellipsizing and link text?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: err yes. didn't know how else to do it since there is no Twitter copy
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: I use Bridgy Publish for most cases, except when heavy editing of the text is needed to make it read nicer on Twitter
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: well it's odd that you're liking and quoting at the same time
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tantek
you've almost written your own note post there - since the actual quote is not continuous in the IRC channel archive you link to
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KartikPrabhu
true. I also add my own text to likes sometimes to keep note of why I like it
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: that sounds more like a bookmark
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@michaeldexter
Congratulations http://fortune.com for providing zero content if JavaScript is blocked. 22 Scripts!
(twitter.com/_/status/603753654349357056)
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GWG
That reminders me. I keep thinking about learning Javascript
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tantek
so much "Popular in your network" :( :( :(
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tantek
popularinyournetwork--
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Loqi
popularinyournetwork has -2 karma
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tantek
email so f'ing depressing. it's like 90% growth hacking bullshit *after* you wade through the random unicode spam.
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@TheWritingGeek
Learn it. Repeat it. Live it. http://ow.ly/i/aWK1K #bookdesignhumor #selfpub #indieauth
(twitter.com/_/status/604115003218776064)
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@Inkwater_Masha
Learn it. Repeat it. Live it. http://ow.ly/i/aWK1K #bookdesignhumor #selfpub #indieauth
(twitter.com/_/status/604115003017412608)
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tantek.com
edited /Webmention (+105) "/* POSSE or Send Webmentions First */ add citation to IRC discussion for conclusions"
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tantek
aaronpk: perhaps not quite as productive a wiki day as yesterday, yet answering that FAQ I think is useful for helping implementations that do POSSE & send webmentions
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GWG
You know, I still don't feel I have POSSE down.
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tantek
GWG, it's taken a while and many iterations to get to where we are with understanding good POSSE practices
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tantek
if you can formulate a specific question, perhaps we can clarify further
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GWG
I feel, like many things, I have not made it as easy as I can.
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GWG
My biggest problems come from trying to make things simpler and easier.
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tantek
yes, POSSEing should be completely automatic for the author
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GWG
For me, it has been an issue.
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GWG
I keep punting switching to Bridgy Publish down the road.
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GWG
Because to test it well, I feel like I'd be spamming my acount
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GWG
I also always had trouble POSSEing to Twitter
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snarfed
GWG: make a separate twitter acct for testing?
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tantek
GWG, definitely setup a test Twitter account, e.g. gwg_test
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tantek
and then just use that until you're happy with the results
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tantek
you can even make it private so that you don't spam search results (AKA Loqi searches :) )
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Loqi
woot!
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GWG
They still have private accounts? Good to know.
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GWG
I haven't looked in a while.
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GWG
But, either way, we'll see what I can do over the course of the summer.
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GWG
To get Bridgy Publish working, I need to fix my theme, because Bridgy Publish was picking it up incorrectly. Which means I'm marking up incorrectly.
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tantek
GWG - go get your private test account - that's an easy thing you can take care of in a few minutes
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tantek
then work on harder stuff :)
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GWG
tantek: Such as?
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GWG
Harder as in?
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tantek
GWG, harder as in fixing the markup in your theme
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GWG
tantek: I've fixed a lot in the unstyled version.
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GWG
I have to double check then restyle.
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tantek
GWG, right, that's more work than creating a new private twitter account :)
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GWG
Right now, I have to finish getting the dev setup on the computer I'm bringing on the plane next Wednesday finishd.
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GWG
But, either way, I will set one up.
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acegiak
So here's an interesting observation: Since I've started consciously making an effort to take and post selfies occasionally people reply to those posts with compliments. The ability to "like" that reply post is a really nice subtle way of sayinga polite "thanks" without having to up it into a foofaraw of an actual third reply post
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davidpeach
hey y'all
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@sipgateUK
RT @btconf: Group photo of the #IndieWebCamp Germany during #btconf in Düsseldorf. https://twitter.com/btconf/status/600591662813941760/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/604243807056596992)
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GWG
Good morning all
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frzn
good morning, GWG
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LanceyWork
morning!
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petermolnar
good morning
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rhiaro
waves
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GWG
I'm trying to pick a fun name for a Twitter test account.
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GWG
I want to fix my Twitter POSSE without spamming.
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GWG
And develop ny long delayed Bridgy for WordPress plug in
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rhiaro
I'd just spam twitter and delete them afterwards, but I don't care about my followers ;)
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petermolnar
or you just want to make phones buzz :)
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rhiaro
if people are getting notifications for individual tweets, they deserve it
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rhiaro
who has that??
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adactio.com
created /2015/Brighton (+1290) "New page for Indie Web Camp Brighton 2015"
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adactio.com
edited /Events (+371) "/* Upcoming */ Add Brighton event"
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adactio.com
edited /Main_Page () "(-603) /* IndieWebCamp */ Add Brighton event"
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adactio.com
edited /2015/ (+35) "Add Brighton event"
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davidpea.ch
edited /2015/Brighton (+16) "/* Participating */"
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Brighton (+13) "/* Participating */"
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@deewu
Oh #indieweb site, you don't need to start explaining why I should try stuff with a Matrix quote. You really don't.
(twitter.com/_/status/604281698533150720)
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adactio.com
edited /2015/Brighton (+477) "/* Participating */"
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@deewu
It's so self-congratulatory. Lookit you, leaving the walled gardens and content silos! You see the light and goodness of the #indieweb!
(twitter.com/_/status/604282724304732160)
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adactio.com
edited /2015/Brighton (+401) "/* Participating */"
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Loqi
[mention] Alexis Kraland posted 'Indie Web: vers le contrôle de nos données personnelles sur les réseaux sociaux? 9 min r...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (http://akraland.eu/2015/indie-web-vers-le-contrle-de-nos-donnes-personnelles-sur)
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davidpea.ch
edited /2015/Brighton (+59) "/* Participating */"
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@schnarfed
@deewu agreed, cost is definitely a factor! just fyi though, a free hosted subdomain can still be indieweb. e.g. https://withknown.com/
(twitter.com/_/status/604286988926103553)
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tommorris
"C'est á Portland, repère de hipsters américains au Nord-Ouest des Etat-Unis que le projet Indie Web naît en 2011." bwahaha.
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Loqi
tommorris: KartikPrabhu left you a message 3 days, 10 hours ago: it seems my security level has gone down to B because of the whole logjam thing. But I don't understand if that is my erroe, my cert providers error or the hosting companies error! The resolution is so un-understandable! ref: https://weakdh.org/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-25/line/1432612996420
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tommorris
KartikPrabhu: hey, it's nobody's error - you can generate new DH keypairs from the certificate.
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Guest99613
yeah I just went through generating new moduli files on every machine I SSH into. it was less than ideal.
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Guest99613
err
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Guest99613
wel, it won't let me change nick. I'll restart this client. - endi
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endi_
strange the server bugs out and I go into reconnect loop if I try to use 'endi' as nick
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@deewu
@schnarfed I'm still making my way through the indiewebcamp site/wiki though. A lot of links/info to process.
(twitter.com/_/status/604292975619919872)
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bear
the logjam issue is solvable by generating a dhparam file that is > 1024 bits and having your web server use it
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kylewm
iirc KartikPrabhu is on Django-specific PaaS hosting?
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kylewm
(so it might actually be their fault ;)
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bear
it's whoever is in charge of the web server (nginx/apache)
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bear
apps or proxied apps have no control over it (well, unless they are doing the ssl termination)
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aaronpk
tantek: here is a possible Micropub JSON that would create the "edit" post in that example from the other day... what do you think? https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/615ab9ae11ae7be25fea
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@deewu
Fun Discovery #1: I think any tweet with the indieweb hashtag goes to their IRC channel.
(twitter.com/_/status/604343805047885824)
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tantek
why uh oh?
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tantek
aaronpk - interesting - does that update mean the entire photo property is replaced at that post with the new (single) value?
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aaronpk
basically i took the parsed microformats json of the edit example we made, and trimmed out anything that could be implied by the micropub endpoint
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aaronpk
(author and edit date mostly)
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bret
that would update the photo url right?
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aaronpk
basically the same process as coming up with the original form-encoded micropub request for creating things as documented on /micropub
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bret
yeah cool, super simple
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aaronpk
technically the "properties" object isn't needed, but that makes it match the parsed JSON
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tantek
aaronpk: any chance we can develop the form encoded version first? simpler design first? and then go all trendy JSON?
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aaronpk
kiiinda... except once you require nested properties, form-encoding becomes ugly/hacky
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tantek
I like this design process for such protocols: HTML+mf -> form encoded -> trendy JSON
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tantek
that way we can swap out the trendy next year for whatever
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aaronpk
we don't need nesting for *creating* things because we can just assume every property specified in the create is part of the tthing being created
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tantek
aaronpk I'm convinced we can figure out flat & simple for form encoded
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aaronpk
but for editing things, we first need to specify the URL of the thing being edited, and then also need to specify the changes
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aaronpk
that's what led to the "mp-" prefix spec'd out earlier
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bret
aaronpk: how do we handle properties that are deleted?
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tantek
aaronpk: right, so start with mp-url
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bret
or is it a coplete overwrite rather than an inherent type merge
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tantek
bret - deletes are different
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aaronpk
bret: this is the example before we turned it into the "edit" post https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/532b1868541b3df9a412
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tantek
bret - see two day ago conversation in IRC
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tantek
and the results on /edit
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bret
missed that
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tantek
gotta keep up ;)
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aaronpk
the problem with the mp- prefix is it's pretty arbitrary
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tantek
aaronpk: nah, it follows a decent prefix naming pattern
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tantek
when it comes down to it, all vocabularies are pretty arbitrary
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tantek
only diff is if you can point to your methodology for coming up with them
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tantek
e.g. prior art (vocabs), or patterns, etc.
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aaronpk
well this is the result of trying to find a trimmed-down version of a form-encoded update https://github.com/aaronpk/Micropub/blob/master/user-stories/user-posts-a-note.md#2-updating-a-note
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aaronpk
deleting values and properties starts to get hairy tho
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aaronpk
also in this gist, there's an example of adding to a list vs replacing the list https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/532b1868541b3df9a412
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aaronpk
being able to use a top-level property to specify the difference is nice
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tantek.com
edited /Known (+234) "/* How to */ How to use API - from lurking on #knownchat"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
that would look like add[category]=indieweb in form-encoding
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aaronpk
except that form-encoding itself doesn't have the concept of nested properties, but most parsers have implemented it with [] despite it not being in the spec
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aaronpk
and because it's not in the spec, you get the difference between languages of how they handle things like foo=1&foo=2 vs foo[]=1&foo[]=2
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tantek
you could add the photo update example there too
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lancey.space
edited /User:Lancey.space (-149) "Added my todo list"
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lancey.space
edited /User:Lancey.space (+30) "Added IRC nick"
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bret
aaronpk: re http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-27/line/1432748660499 its a little awkward in node/js land, most form encoding libs only do parsing rather than encoding, so it just requires a bit of npm diving
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bret
but there are good ones out there that do both
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lancey.space
edited /Django (-119) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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aaronpk
bret: creating the form-encoded post should be part of any HTTP library you're using.. node doesn't do that?
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tantek
aaronpk: https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/532b1868541b3df9a412 is a good start, except s/to a list//
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lancey.space
edited /Python (+189) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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aaronpk
why? every property is a list
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tantek
the burden of proof is on inclusion of extra text
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tantek
it's unnecessary
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tantek
also "list" implies an ordering which I don't think you want
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aaronpk
aren't microformats lists ordered?
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aaronpk
i thought that was key
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tantek
the property arrays reflect document order
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tantek
if that's what you're trying to say, yet there is no need for a new term/concept "list" to express that
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aaronpk
yes that's what i'm trying to say
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tantek
hence you can omit "to a list" and nothing is lost.
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aaronpk
i need to clarify the "add a value" then
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tantek
example: the term "collection" is often used in various Social Web WG discussions, and when you use a specific term "list", then you incite debates about "list" vs "collection" etc.
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aaronpk
can I call it an array?
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tantek
this is why extra wordage is bad
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tantek
it's like honey to the architecture astronauts
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tantek
there is no need to call it anything - just "add a value" is fine
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aaronpk
i'm trying to explicitly say it doesn't affect anything else in that... array/list/whatev
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tantek
that's already implied by "add"
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aaronpk
refresh. see if that works
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aaronpk
if i can refer to everything as "properties have one or more values" then I can avoid terms like "array" and "list"
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tantek
yes, and "If the property does not exist already, it is created."
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tantek
similarly, for removing, "If no values remain, the property is removed."
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tantek
(because that's what'll happen in the HTML result)
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tantek
aaronpk: would you be up for keeping the form-encoded version side-by-side with these?
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aaronpk
interesting idea, let me try that
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tantek
I still think it's better to keep the form-encoded design up to date first, then have the JSON follow from that
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tantek
to continue encouraging the HTML+mf -> form-encoded -> trendy format (JSON, XML) etc.
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@deewu
Good thing I wasn't attached to my .so domain. Renewal fee going from $19 to $102.
(twitter.com/_/status/603988348584210432)
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kylewm
rhiaro: don't you have a .so?
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aaronpk
i'm not happy with all of them
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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tantek
sorry that was too much unfiltered noise - kicked/banned
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lancey.space
edited /User:Lancey.space (+58) "/* To-do */"
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bret
aaronpk: sorry was pulled away from irc. no, node's http server does not automatically decode the body, and even express requires that you set that middle ware up as of today. requires libs to do the encoding and decoding. using the JSON.stringify or JSON.parse on the body of the req or res is easier in this case. but doing form encoded isnt hard either,
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bret
puts it in the funny looking form encoded on wire encoding until whatever on the other side turns it back into whatever native object the language uses
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bret
it felt hard at first when i wrote gitpub, but its actually pretty trivial as Im a better JS dev now
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bret
im tempted to actually accept form or json encoded micropub
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tantek
bret - where is that on your itch list priorities?
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aaronpk
bret: have you looked at this already then? https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/532b1868541b3df9a412
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bret
aaronpk: yeah that loosk great, even if it gets transmitted as form
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bret
tantek: im in itch gridlock right now :[
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aaronpk
haha me too
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Loqi
rofl
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tantek
bret - you can escape the gridlock by braindumping them to your User: page Itches section
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tantek
the reason braindumping them there (externalizing them from your brain) works, is because it's a distinctly differnt cognitive task to recognize/discover/document itches, than it is to prioritize them
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tantek
so by default just braindump them to the end of your existing list, until no more come to mind
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aaronpk
i've been using Wunderlist for that recently. although I think I need to make a separate list for "my site" vs "indieweb things"
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tantek
then take a mental break (walk, drink, eat, etc.) and come back and look at the whole list and see what "hits you"
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bret
been distracted by writing dev tooling stuff
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tantek
then move that to the top (acknowledging that realization), save, and work on it
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tantek
bret - it's ok to be distracted by other stuff, just add it all
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tantek
or if you need to separate "your site" vs. "other" you can keep multiple lists for that
#
bret.io
edited /User:Bret.io (+74) "/* Itching */"
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bret.io
edited /User:Bret.io (+59) "/* Itching */"
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bret
aaronpk: im back on the taskwarrior train
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GWG
There's a train?
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tantek
we have a bunch of big anniversaries coming up this year
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GWG
Oh/
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tantek
2015-06-20 - 10 year anniversary of launch of microformats.org
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GWG
Will there be cake?
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tantek
2015-07-18 - 5 year anniversary of the first Federated Social Web Summit
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tantek
aaronpk we should kind of make a big deal of that
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aaronpk
wow yeah totally
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tantek
especially assuming we get major things built / launched at IWC 2015 - which is the weekend before
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aaronpk
begs the question, what kind of major things would be good to build during IWC?
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tantek
that almost sounds like you're asking for a VISION or something ;)
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benwerd
I'm thinking about building flat-file storage for Known so you don't need a db at all
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tantek
benwerd++ !!
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benwerd
Maybe with git bindings
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Loqi
benwerd has 77 karma
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Pierre-O
haha :)
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tantek
running Known off a github io backend would be amazing
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benwerd
That's what I'm thinking
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benwerd
Or Dropbox
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benwerd
Or Cozy
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benwerd
Or ... etc
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Pierre-O
yes, it shoud be a service, not FS please :)
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tantek
nah, git bindings is a decent enough approach / portable etc. with a default of github io
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aaronpk
benwerd: you're thinking about making the Known app generate static HTML files that can be hosted somewhere?
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tantek
whereas the others are all snowflakes (Dropbox, Cozy, etc.)
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Pierre-O
benwerd: I have a quick question, can I host a version of Convoy (I believe it is based on known), and can I make a convoy-IH plugin?
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benwerd
aaronpk: or maybe the other way around
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aaronpk
or using files in place of a database, where the PHP app still serves the requests but reads from disk instead of a DB
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benwerd
Pierre-O: No, but you can host the social media plugins, which are all on GitHub
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Pierre-O
yeah it is what I do
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benwerd
aaronpk: That second one
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Pierre-O
I think I could reverse engineer the convoy plugin but well, no time for that, was just curious, thanks :)
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benwerd
Pierre-O: we have to leave a few ways for us to pay the rent / eat
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Pierre-O
I know :) I'm not mad at you, I understand :)
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benwerd
But yes, alternative services are definitely possible
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benwerd
And we've made sure to open source all the actual functionality
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bret
gongrats you guys
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bret
benwerd: leveldb is nice because it defaults to a library use, vs service oriented client/server
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bret
npm install leveldb, done
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rhiaro
kylewm: I'm retiring my .so in September because registrar are awful and won't let me transfer away, so that's okay
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Pierre-O
benwerd: we need metaAPI, API to configure API :)
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kylewm
I'm surprised so many new startups are relying on .ly for cute domain hacks ... seems very risky
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GWG
rhiaro: I'm tempted to say, .so what?
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tantek
kylewm: and here's your citation for that: http://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains#ly
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GWG
I think I'll stick to .us . Reasonably priced and non-controversial.
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tantek
GWG, stick to? Could you add your usage to: http://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains#us ? (see other short-domains for how people have noted their usage)
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kylewm
actually I assumed optimizely was .ly but they are just optimizely.com
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benwerd
Pierre-O: We do license Convoy to universities and so on, so could do something like that with IH
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aaronpk
bitly changed to bitly.com a while ago
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kylewm
no maybe nobody really does that
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GWG
tantek: I'm on that page elsewhere, aren't I?
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tantek
GWG, don't know - if you have a .us domain that you use with your site - you should add it to the .us section
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david.shanske.com
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david.shanske.com
edited /short-domains (+151) "/* us */"
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GWG
I own two, to be accurate
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rhiaro
I have amy.gy now :)
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rhiaro
Hmm I need to resist rhia.ro
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aaronpk
have you bought a .ro before? it was a pita for me
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rhiaro
I know Romanians though
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rhiaro
That might help
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aaronpk
it involved either 1) faxing a copy of my credit card and drivers' license or 2) wire transfer
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aaronpk
but it's a one-time registration fee, haven't had to renew it
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rhiaro
Well I already spend too much on domains
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bret
i've read that .io money goes and funds some pretty awful stuff
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KevinMarks
gillmor gang time
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GWG
Unfortunately for me, .ke doesn't seem to do top level, so I can't get my last name.
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bret
KevinMarks: is that live?
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bret
err listenable live?
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bret
KevinMarks++
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 115 karma
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aaronpk
oh i remember the other weird thing about sending payment for the .ro
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aaronpk
they say that wire transfer fees for sending *and*receiving are paid by the customer
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aaronpk
but then they say they can't tell me how much their bank will charge to receive
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aaronpk
so I had to call their bank to ask if they charge a fee to receive USD, which they did not
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GWG
Okay. I just bought gwg.us
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GWG
Not sure what I'll do with it, but...
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sparverius
make a url shortener
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GWG
I have one at di5.us
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aaronparecki.com
edited /short-domains (+532) "/* ro */ add some more details about .ro"
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tantek
aaronpk: can you add IWC Germany / Düsseldorf to /IndieWebCamps ? just we don't forget it :/
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aaronparecki.com
edited /IndieWebCamps (+1649) "add 2015/Germany from home page"
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tantek
is updating the home page
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tantek.com
edited /Main_Page (+693) "next IWC is main, so far Portland and Brighton are on, include info/details for both"
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tantek.com
edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (-21) "Brighton confirmed for main IWC 2015"
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tantek.com
edited /2015/ (+40) "Brighton confirmed for main IWC 2015"
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tantek
anyone here intersted in an early Octoberish IWC Austin?
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tantek
I ask because there's an AEA (An Event Apart) Austin early October, and it may make sense logistically and in terms of crossover to have an IWC before/after
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rhiaro
ooh my favourite couchsurfer so far is in austin!
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rhiaro
I could visit her!
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rhiaro
(probably not financially viable though really)
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gRegorLove
I do love Austin, but probably won't be able to travel there in October
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rhiaro
there's little chance I'll be able to blag funding for TPAC, so I can't do two expensive trips in october
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tantek.com
edited /2015/ (+155) "Thinking about early October IWC Austin"
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tantek
well I added it to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/ so go ahead and add your interest level if any!
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tantek
KevinMarks: see and add to http://indiewebcamp.com/React
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tantek.com
edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* IndieWebCamp */ put Brighton first because they'll start first. timezones"
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tantek
aaronpk, GWG are go/no-go HWC next Wednesday in PDX, NYC? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-06-03-homebrew-website-club
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aaronpk
yes, but trying to figure out the best venue, I want to do it on the east side this week
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kylewm
I would totally consider Austin in October. I have a friend who just moved to Corpus Christi
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kylewm
(who i would like to visit, not that those two places are particularly close)
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tantek
yes - Austin is a fun place and I've missed it since bailing on SXSW since 2013
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kylewm
does React really render UI components in JS Canvas?
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bret
kylewm: i dont think so?
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bret
but it does have a virtual-dom
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bear
react native may, but react renders straight to it's virtual dom
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bret
that is used for mvc stuff for actually creating the real dom
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tantek
goes to manually update his upcoming events box on his index.html
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kylewm
oh I see, the canvas stuff is specific to Flipboard (https://github.com/Flipboard/react-canvas)
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kylewm
i was confusing that with "virtual DOM"
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bret
kylewm: its confusing
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bret
(im confused by it)
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bear
very
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snarfed
virtual canvas shadow dom layout rendering mwahahahahaha!!!
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snarfed
runs awawy
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bret
one insight i had... whats the alternative to virtualdom (eg, representing your dom as a js object)? not having one and tying all logic to the real dom api
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bret
virtualdom gives you access to your dom, but with a different api
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bear
the reason they use virtualdom vs native is to control refresh/updates
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bear
when you touch the real dom you cannot control when updates happen
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bear
but with the vdom you can have active/inactive "pages" which don't force a dom update even if they are offscreen
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tantek
bear - not true - hence requestAnimationFrame
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bear
this isn't animation at all
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bear
i'm talking about updating a div that may have 1000 sub elements and then the dom redrawing all of them
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tantek
bear - screen updates of any kind are animations of a sort - nevermind the name of the webapi
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bret
aparently there is some advantage with the vdom in terms of diffing between updates
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tantek
dang, squarespace templates are now apparently js;dr :P
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bret
i dont get that part
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tantek
JavaScript ; Didn't Render
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kylewm
bear: thanks for explaining that. it maps pretty well to Java Swing actually which I'm much more familiar with :P
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bear
glad to help
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tantek
realizes he's only indie RSVPd to 1 of the 3 upcoming events he has listed, so still can't automate generation of his "Speaking & Events" box
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tantek
would anyone else be interested in Bridgy Publish RSVP POSSE to Lanyrd?
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tantek
goes to create another Bridgy Publish issue specifically for RSVP
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snarfed
ah rsvp
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tantek
that's for events
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tantek
hence "another" :)
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tantek
RSVP would likely be easier than Event POSSE
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tantek.com
edited /Lanyrd (+75) "RSVP POSSE - feature request Bridgy Publish"
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snarfed
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 195 karma
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tantek
wonders if he should dare to ask the Lanyrd folks to "just" support receiving webmentions of Indie RSVPs.
#
tantek
is there magic text to auto-link an issue # reference in github issue comments?
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tantek
e.g. I tried the obvious thing in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/412 but it didn't auto-link them
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tantek
but wait those aren't hashtags. ;)
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snarfed
across projects, use USER/PROJECT#ISSUE
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KevinMarks
can we nag simon into adding rsvp support in lanyrd directly?
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tantek
KevinMarks: do you read /me comments? ;)
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KevinMarks
i was reading scollback
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tantek
now that I've created http://lanyrd.com/2015/yxyy/ - I can post an Indie RSVP to it to at least provide a real world example
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tantek
anyone else here going to YxYY this year? (June 12-15)
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KartikPrabhu
reads logs
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KartikPrabhu
tommorris: bear: thanks for the info on Logjam thingie. I am on a shared hosting so I suppose I should ask those guys to fix it
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tantek
what is Logjam?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: should we document SSL bugs on the wiki?
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tantek
if we use jargon here (#indiewebcamp) we should document them
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aaronpk
has no idea what logjam is
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tantek
general idea is to keep this channel and its logs more approachable
#
tantek
which means minimize jargon usage, and when necessary, make it so people can ask "what is"
#
KartikPrabhu
I am really no expert so I only know what this https://weakdh.org/ told me
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tantek
ok to start with a short stub
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KartikPrabhu
and that my site is getting a B instead of A+ on SSL labs because of it
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tantek
hmmm - do any mf2 parsers support backcompat for h-event (i.e. vevent) ?
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tantek
e.g. I'm not seeing any pick up of the vevent here: http://lanyrd.com/2015/yxyy/ from either phpmf2 or mf2py
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KartikPrabhu
hmmm no seems mf2py only does hevent -> h-event
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tantek
uh, there is no hevent
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tantek
hmm what is h-event
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Loqi
h-event is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up an event post on web sites https://indiewebcamp.com/h-event
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: do you know why hevent -> h-event added to mf2py when it should be vevent -> h-event?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: oh mf2py says "ported and adapted from php-mf2" so likely php-mf2 also have hevent
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KartikPrabhu
will updated mf2py now
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tantek
KartikPrabhu++ \o/
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 95 karma
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KartikPrabhu
tantek to be clear hevent -> h-event just should not be made yes?
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tantek
right - there was never a class hevent
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KartikPrabhu
s/god/good
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: ok good
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: while you're in there - can you check the other backcompat support classes?
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: if you're feeling frisky https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/issues/39
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KartikPrabhu
oh judas priest! :)
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: yes reviewed existing ones.
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tantek
thanks much!
#
tantek
notes https://github.com/microformats/tests/tree/master/tests/microformats-v1/hcalendar uses vevent - so those tests should help (and pass better?) now
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: yes
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tantek
or make the one line edit?
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kylewm
heh, true
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: any idea what the hreview-aggregate should map to?
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KartikPrabhu
I can't find any thing on the microformats wiki for this
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KartikPrabhu
tantek yes and it has nothing on it :P
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tantek
aww - it's only a stub
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview does have a "item" property that is also absent from h-review
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KartikPrabhu
oh my bad h-review does have it but mf2py does not in backcompat
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tantek
ok expanding
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KartikPrabhu
http://microformats.org/wiki/h-review#Backward_Compatiblity should say how the old "item" property should be mapped to new ones
#
tantek
on it
#
KartikPrabhu
cool! updating mf2py with those
#
KartikPrabhu
oh boy this just got complicated.
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: does mf2py have a mechanism to do the "item" backcompat as mentioned here: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-review#Backward_Compatiblity ?
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kylewm
was just looking at that
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tantek
yeah - careful what you ask for
#
KartikPrabhu
I could for starters just duplicate the hreview backcompat to hreview-aggregate but both of those are lacking in the recommended "item" property translation
#
kylewm
KartikPrabhu: no it doesn't :/ and the transformation for 'fn' looks totally wrong
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah it is
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kylewm
could add a hack fix for just this specific case in the code (instead of in the big block of X -> Y translations)
#
KartikPrabhu
hmmm i don't know how wise that is.
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kylewm
or represent it generally like {'item': {'vcard': ['p-item', 'h-card'], etc. }}
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: if it's literally the only case where we have to do this kind of conditional behavior, I think it's fine to hack it in. when there are two or three such cases, it'll be worth it to generalize
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KartikPrabhu
hmm. i think the "item" thing in hreview and hreview-aggregate is the only case so far
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KartikPrabhu
ok kylewm my mf2py repo is updated with the hevent -> vevent fix. feel free to pull from that and add these hacks :)
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kylewm
lolol
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kylewm
don't want to get your hands dirty?
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KartikPrabhu
more like "I have no idea how to hack that" :P
#
KartikPrabhu
or as they say "above my pay grade"
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kylewm
um, I think I ruined your world with aggressive rebasing last year
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kylewm
why are there so many commits different between these two?? https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/compare/master...kartikprabhu:master
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KartikPrabhu
i don't know :(
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KartikPrabhu
I just updated mine from tommorris and changed the hevent to vevent
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KartikPrabhu
git is confusing
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tantek
what is git?
#
Loqi
Git is a popular distributed source control management system that can be used to host and share code from independent sites https://indiewebcamp.com/git
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tantek.com
edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+7) "comment out HWC NYC for this upcoming week"
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tantek
well that didn't work
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tantek.com
edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-16) "HTML comments don't work here so just delete"
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GWG
tantek, and next time
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tantek.com
edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+5) "Portland consistency"
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GWG
zachdonovan has a conflict on the 17th. I have one on the 3rd
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tantek.com
edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+2) "and consistency"
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kylewm
I hate to ask, but can anybody help me and Kartik get back in sync on github? does he need to "git reset --hard orign/master"?
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tantek.com
edited /Main_Page (+7) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ comment out NYC for next week"
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: i think all the code is synced correctly but there are these weird commit things floaitng around
#
KartikPrabhu
!spammer @first_tweet ?
#
Loqi
Only aaronpk and tantek can do that
#
tantek
nah it's fine - I caused that
#
tantek
watch this
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gRegorLove
kylewm, KartikPrabhu syncing always confuses me and I have to look it up each time, heh.
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gRegorLove
I think the method I've settled on is git checkout upstream/master -b mydevbranch
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KartikPrabhu
yeah that seems to be the right one
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kylewm
gRegorLove: do you run git fetch upstream first?
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gRegorLove
I think it's not necessary. I think it creates a new branch from the upstream HEAD
#
gRegorLove
Which may not help you guys, depending how things are.
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gRegorLove
Let me find the post I got it from.
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kylewm
the problem is, all our files are the same, but the commit hashes are all different
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kylewm
because i split up one giant pull request into a bunch of smaller requests (that was the aggressive rebasing)
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KartikPrabhu
aah yes that is when it happened ^
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gRegorLove
Might be easiest for one of you to create a new branch off that rebased branch and re-apply your changes there.
#
gRegorLove
But again, I always get confused by syncing up git
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gRegorLove
I'm using the "PS" there when contributing to php-mf2, for example.
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gRegorLove
delete the new branch after each PR, the forked master can easily be synced from upstream then
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KartikPrabhu
i thought git was supposed to make life easier :P
#
gRegorLove
Git: At least we're not Subversion
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: I think #B from gRegorLove's link would work nicely
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kylewm
put your current master into a new branch called "backup", then move the "master" branch to upstream/master
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KartikPrabhu
and then push the "master" to my repo?
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kylewm
yeah that's the push --force line at the end
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@eschnou
IMHO, this shows that Fb is not sustainable, we need an open & federated 'social web' layer instead: http://twurl.nl/0hzkg4 (via @xdamman)
(twitter.com/_/status/4868013127)
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: did that work
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kylewm
gRegorLove++ thanks!
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Loqi
gRegorLove has 5 karma
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tantek.com
edited /Cliqset (+478) "fix image src"
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