#indiewebcamp 2015-06-06

2015-06-06 UTC
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tantek.com
edited /silo-quits (+421) "Graydon Hoare 3 month Twitter break"
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tantek.com
edited /short-domains (+572) "/* Domains */ note problems with .so domain with citations"
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@t
@deewu thanks for pointing out. Noted .so ccTLD issues: https://indiewebcamp.com/short-domains#so and cited your tweets. Hope that’s ok! (ttk.me t4bX1)
(twitter.com/_/status/606981065593397248)
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tantek
I want offline "Preview" functionality in MediaWiki purely via clientside JS, and auto-save edits-in-progress to local-storage
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tantek
Loqi, can haz?
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Loqi
who, me?
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aaronpk
mebbe if we move off mediawiki
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aaronpk
actually i could probably put autosave in-progress edits to localstorage in the current theme pretty easily
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aaronpk
it was pretty easy to add to quill
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tantek
interesting
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tantek
it's the offline "Preview" which would be very useful
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aaronpk
much harder
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tantek
exactly
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aaronpk
esp when pages use templates
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tantek
yeah - could cache existing in use templates, and just not render any new templates added while editing
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aaronpk
the templates arent that much data ultimately, could actually download them all
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aaronpk
but writing an equivalent mediawiki parser+renderer in JS sounds not fun
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tantek
I suppose it would be better to do it in #cassis.js
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tantek
that way you could run it on the mediawiki server and the browser ;)
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aaronpk
which is why i mentioned doing it after replacing mediawiki, cause then we could actually use cassis to do the real parsing too
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tantek
and keep mediawiki markup format?
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aaronpk
or some set/intersection of mediawiki and markdown
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tantek
true - by doing that it would be less work on our content, and potentially useful to others
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aaronpk
it's not hard to support both actually, I support a lot of both syntax in my own markdown parser
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tantek
you know my opinions on markdown ;) tantek.com/w/Markdown
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aaronpk
yeah... there are some good parts tho
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aaronpk
i prefer MW link syntax, so thats what i use on my site.
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aaronpk
my site has a "pre-process" step that turns my own syntaxes into something that the markdown parser can handle and then it hands it off to a markdown library
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aaronpk
best of both worlds
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aaronpk
we could do something similar, a small pre-processing step that then passes it off to a markdown parser that runs in the browser https://github.com/evilstreak/markdown-js
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@joeld
#IndieWeb is the new ham radio. I sure wish it wasn’t, but it is.
(twitter.com/_/status/607006507369177089)
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dym.cx
edited /User:Dym.cx (+1010) "/* Origin */"
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dym.cx
edited /User:Dym.cx (+2) "/* Origin */"
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tantek
Comix Dym are you here in IRC?
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tantek
note that "ind(.)ie" has nothing to do with indieweb and the unsiloization you speak of on http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Dym.cx
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tantek
I think you mean IndieWeb on that page where you say ind(.)ie
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Zegnat
Good morning all.
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KevinMarks
morning Zegnat
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acegiak
tantek: don't know if you're listening for webmentions on your wiki: https://acegiak.net/2015/06/06/tantek-markdown/
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tantek
acegiak: unfortunately not, my wiki is hosted on a silo :/
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tantek
acegiak: whoa neat!
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KevinMarks
acegiak did you see auto_link? that's what tantek runs in cassi, and kylewm and I ported it to python
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KevinMarks
I also added some somewhat bonkers fragmention support
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tantek
acegiak: thanks! linked from the wiki page: http://tantek.com/w/Markdown#PartialImplementation
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acegiak
KevinMarks: I saw, pretty neat
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acegiak
tantek: I just really liked the simplified syntax
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KevinMarks
why yes, my urls are evil and recursive
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acegiak
KevinMarks: amazing :D
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@andigalpern
If you're producing content, you should own the insights to grow your readership and make it better. Publish on your own domain. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/607100891078926336)
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KevinMarks
hm, looks like I'm not getting the fragmention right
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KevinMarks
ah, homepage wasn't including it
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Zegnat
KevinMarks: any particular reason for putting the a-elements within the blockquote rather than outside of it to make the whole block clickable?
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KevinMarks
yes, painful HTML containment rules
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Zegnat
Huh? I thought HTML5 made no issue of blockquote-within-a
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KevinMarks
so did I. sadly i was wrong
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Zegnat
validator.w3.org says its fine
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@koenigand
Es kann losgehen. Themen drehen sich um Webkultur, Storytelling und Indieweb. #nebenan
(twitter.com/_/status/607105683369132033)
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Zegnat
What parsers present problems with it? I seem to recall that when HTML5 Doctor wrote about block wrapping links they said all browsers supported it
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KevinMarks
read that whole thread
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KevinMarks
basically, no
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Zegnat
Yeah, just clicked back to the full chatlog of that day. Can’t say I understand the ‘why’ yet though. I thought the spec allowed this.
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KevinMarks
me too. Tantek can explain. There are rules about what can go inside what in html, and if you violate them it makes a different containment hierarchy in the DOM and your CSS fails
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Zegnat
I get that, but a-elements should allow everything their parent element allows (content model transparent). So if you are allowed to put a blockquote somewhere, you are also allowed to put an a element around it.
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Zegnat
At least, that’s what I am reading in the spec...
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@screengui_de
Wir sind Medienpartner der #nebenan heute. Teilnehmer der Konferenz können sich die aktuelle Ausgabe passend zum Thema #indieweb mitnehmen.
(twitter.com/_/status/607145457689591809)
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dym.cx
edited /User:Dym.cx (+269) "/* Origin */"
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dym_cx
generally anything from ednapiranha is 404
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dym_cx
is she playing _why the lucky stiff or just on vacation?
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@nebenan_hamburg
"Indie ist die Zukunft und das Bloggen boomt", sagt @diplix #indieweb #nebenan
(twitter.com/_/status/607190529911193601)
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@TZPazifist
Der @diplix is Schuld, dass ich meinen Blog jetzt selber verwalte. Und alles "Blog first" publizieren will. #nebenan #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/607193164634537984)
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@capwnd
Das ist schon ziemlich chic. #indieweb @diplix #nebenan
(twitter.com/_/status/607195127312990208)
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@N_Wessinghage
Nutzungsbedingungen vs Zivilgesellschaft - das spricht für #indieweb @diplix bei #nebenan
(twitter.com/_/status/607195831524052993)
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@tschoof
RT @N_Wessinghage: Nutzungsbedingungen vs Zivilgesellschaft - das spricht für #indieweb @diplix bei #nebenan
(twitter.com/_/status/607195998163763200)
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@jensbest
Was vor Jahren normale Internetnutzung war, heisst jetzt also #indieweb - Hmm, muss ich wohl als Phänomen jetzt mal so hinnehmen. #nebenan
(twitter.com/_/status/607197093908901888)
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@NerdcoreBlog
RT @jensbest: Was vor Jahren normale Internetnutzung war, heisst jetzt also #indieweb - Hmm, muss ich wohl als Phänomen jetzt mal so hinneh…
(twitter.com/_/status/607197171914391553)
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@mspro
hatte von den neusten entwicklungen des indieweb nix mitbekommen … danke @dipix, werd da mal mit rumspielen. #nebenan
(twitter.com/_/status/607198061681627137)
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@kommanderkat
https://withknown.com/ ist eine Blog-Plattform die Indieweb-Technologie einsetzt, @diplix sagt einfach mal probieren #nebenan
(twitter.com/_/status/607198479983738880)
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@SunnyZitrone
Klarheit matters. Auch um marginalisierte menschis im web development zu ermutigen. Meine Meinung zum indieweb Vortrag #nebenan
(twitter.com/_/status/607198637119152128)
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@tschoof
RT @mspro: hatte von den neusten entwicklungen des indieweb nix mitbekommen … danke @dipix, werd da mal mit rumspielen. #nebenan
(twitter.com/_/status/607198689946398720)
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@oler
RT @kommanderkat: https://withknown.com/ ist eine Blog-Plattform die Indieweb-Technologie einsetzt, @diplix sagt einfach mal probieren #neb…
(twitter.com/_/status/607199171519651840)
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@crahtgens
RT @kommanderkat: https://withknown.com/ ist eine Blog-Plattform die Indieweb-Technologie einsetzt, @diplix sagt einfach mal probieren #neb…
(twitter.com/_/status/607201715935412224)
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@zimtsternin
RT @kommanderkat: https://withknown.com/ ist eine Blog-Plattform die Indieweb-Technologie einsetzt, @diplix sagt einfach mal probieren #neb…
(twitter.com/_/status/607203005138669568)
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@diplix
RT @kommanderkat: https://withknown.com/ ist eine Blog-Plattform die Indieweb-Technologie einsetzt, @diplix sagt einfach mal probieren #neb…
(twitter.com/_/status/607203633160196097)
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@hlinke
RT @kommanderkat: https://withknown.com/ ist eine Blog-Plattform die Indieweb-Technologie einsetzt, @diplix sagt einfach mal probieren #neb…
(twitter.com/_/status/607204388332040192)
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@buddepiept
RT @kommanderkat: https://withknown.com/ ist eine Blog-Plattform die Indieweb-Technologie einsetzt, @diplix sagt einfach mal probieren #neb…
(twitter.com/_/status/607208310195023872)
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@diplix
RT @mspro: hatte von den neusten entwicklungen des indieweb nix mitbekommen … danke @dipix, werd da mal mit rumspielen. #nebenan
(twitter.com/_/status/607208413542666241)
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@TZPazifist
RT @kommanderkat: https://withknown.com/ ist eine Blog-Plattform die Indieweb-Technologie einsetzt, @diplix sagt einfach mal probieren #neb…
(twitter.com/_/status/607209108941467648)
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ben_thatmustbeme
well i now fully understand why facebook auth does not work
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ben_thatmustbeme
silly facebook
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ben_thatmustbeme
well, i got the login working, with hackery of rel-me links and knowing how they write their links. but then once a person logs in, there is no way to verify that the person who logged in is the user that you are looking for
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aaronpk
no way...
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/looking for/looking to verify/
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: well, i got the login working, with hackery of rel-me links and knowing how they write their links. but then once a person logs in, there is no way to verify that the person who logged in is the user that you are looking to verify
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ben_thatmustbeme
not that i found. you get a app specific user id, that you cannot get the real user id from
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ben_thatmustbeme
i have tried a whole bunch of ways, cannot find a way to reliably verify that the person who logged in is the owner of the account "dissolve333" for example
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KevinMarks__
That's by design. Their response to users being scared of Facebook knowing so much is to hide it from devs
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ben_thatmustbeme
yes, it makes sense, it prevents app developers from being able to specify the actual user
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ben_thatmustbeme
but it used to be that if you had a user, you could always do the reverse and ge tthe app secific ID from their global ID, but they fixed that bit
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aaronpk
but bridgy knows the user, right? i mean it's showing profile photos of people
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'd need to check in to bridgy's code, but i suspect it assumes the correct association and stores that
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ben_thatmustbeme
so in theory, i could change the login url when i first set up bridgy and associate it with the wrong account
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aaronpk
twitter provides a way to begin auth requesting a specific user, maybe facebook has something like that?
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ben_thatmustbeme
ahh, it looks like bridgy is able to pull the indieweb url from their profile after login
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ben_thatmustbeme
almost like it does rel-me-auth after you log in
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ben_thatmustbeme
i wasn't able to get that info... wonder if it needs some extra scope
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Loqi
rofl
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@VeroHamburg
RT @kommanderkat: https://withknown.com/ ist eine Blog-Plattform die Indieweb-Technologie einsetzt, @diplix sagt einfach mal probieren #neb…
(twitter.com/_/status/607228812808593408)
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Kongaloosh
but... that's just another silo :C
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snarfed1
ben_thatmustbeme: yup this part of the fb 2.x api is no fun. background in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/350 , https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/375 , etc
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ben_thatmustbeme
ugh, you can get access to user website but you have to submit a request to Facebook to get your app permissions for it
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snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: eh that perm is easy. others are harder
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats really all i would need
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snarfed
but yeah, in short, like KevinMarks said, the fb 2.x api intentionally switched to app-specific user ids to prevent mapping your app's users to global user ids or nicknames
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, i figured it was that way
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snarfed
but for indieweb purposes, if you pull the website in their profile, that's good enough
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snarfed
well, privacy
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snarfed
but yeah
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay, need to go mow the lawn
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ben_thatmustbeme
*not a euphamism for anything*
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: but then I could set my facebook website URL to yours and sign in as you
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kylewm
Kongaloosh: what's another silo? withknown?
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Kongaloosh
kylewm: is it just hosed by them?
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kylewm
Kongaloosh: you can run Known self-hosted too, it's all open source
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kylewm
and you can also have them host it for you with a custom domain name
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Kongaloosh
ooh, that's really nice.
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KevinMarks_
Hmm, so by not verifying that you signed in with the fb profile you linked to with rel="me" Facebook just made things less secure
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kylewm
if I have two sites on the same IP address under different domain names, and one is HSTS, does that force the other domain name to be HTTPS?
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bengo
Your web server logic could vary based on Host header?
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bengo
even if on same ip
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kylewm
i don't understand why kristenandkyle2015.com is finding the ssl certificate for silo.pub :P
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bengo
'is finding'?
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bengo
I see no evidence of silo.pub when I visit that
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kylewm
ok, that's good
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kylewm
when I go there in Firefox, it redirects me to https
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kylewm
but not in private browsing, nor in chrome
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KartikPrabhu
tested on Firefox all ok
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bengo
just tried firefox
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bengo
no redirect/https
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kylewm
thanks guys :)
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bengo
Congrats on the wedding!
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kylewm
haha thanks bengo
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kylewm
went to History, Right-click "Forget About This Site", and now it's working OK
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KartikPrabhu
interesting some cache issue?
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kylewm
yeah, firefox tends to do that... if you have ever visited a site with https://, even if it was an error, it always forces it to be https://
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KartikPrabhu
intersting. new secure connection policy maybe
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kylewm
kinda wish nginx would give an error instead of being like "I don't have a :443 configuration for that site, but how about this other one??"
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: kylewm: ugh yeah. WordPress has similar infuriating default 404 logic
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dym.cx
created /Template:dym_cx (+135) "created"
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dym.cx
edited /User:Dym.cx (+11) "added my template"
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Dym_
so, anyone from mozilla can elaborate on what happened with ednapiranha and all her internet properties?
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Loqi
Dym_: KartikPrabhu left you a message on 5/26 at 3:37pm: good question about dt-* on h-feed pages http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-26#t1432639369998 I don't think there is a standard way to do it yet and the only use-case I can think of is for readers to know the date pages, but no reader supports that yet http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-26/line/1432679852517
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KartikPrabhu
dym_cx: tantek raised some issues with your userpage see http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-05#t1433561687528
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dym_cx
KartikPrabhu: yes, i explained the supposed confusion with ind.ie/indieweb right on my page
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KartikPrabhu
saw right now
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KartikPrabhu
you might want to !tell tantek with link http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Dym.cx#to%20clarify
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dym_cx
!tell tantek ind.ie/indieWeb -- no confusion on my part. inspiration !== implementation http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Dym.cx#to%20clarify
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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dym_cx
how do i make irc-log to use {{dym_cx}} template for my messages?
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /IRC_People (+1) "/* Nicknames */ update my timezone"
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KartikPrabhu
dym_cx: add yourself and your nick to https://indiewebcamp.com/IRC_People#Nicknames I think that is where the logs get photos etc...
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dym.cx
edited /IRC_People (+84) "/* Nicknames */ added dym_cx"
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dym_cx
KartikPrabhu: kewwwl
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kylewm
dym_cx: sorry for the overzealous clarification! there has been some confusion in the past, so folks here may be a little defensive :)
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dym_cx
also, to be clear, my domain has nothing to do with goatse .cx (which is "subdomain hosting" atm), it's just .cx is short for Comix
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kylewm
hahaha, that would not have occurred to me
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cweiske.de
edited /caldav (+7) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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dym.cx
edited /User:Dym.cx (+459) "explained myself a bit"
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@neleheise
Hab mir heute von @hmans was über #pants & dieses "Indieweb"-Dingsie erzählen lassen - das (plus Vortrag von @diplix) klang schon spannend.
(twitter.com/_/status/607274154518265856)
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dym_cx
waht happened to APML ( http://microformats.org/wiki/APML )?
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KartikPrabhu
my guess is no much usage
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: my guess is not much usage
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dym_cx
seems like a reasonable thing to have with foaf (is this still exist?)
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KartikPrabhu
not many use foaf here i know tommorris does
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KevinMarks
APML was always a bit nebulous
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KevinMarks
there was a lot of noise about Attention brokerages and things
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KevinMarks
but so much easier to do as a silo
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dym_cx
another ways to show things you interested in (aside from tag-cloud)?
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KevinMarks
what is like?
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Loqi
like is a popular webaction button and in some cases post type on various silos such as Facebook and Instagram (uses a heart ♥) https://indiewebcamp.com/like
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KevinMarks
posting your likes is a way
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KevinMarks
the attention stuff led into activity streams
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dym_cx
likes are for single posts, i'm talking about general information like "cats, internet, water"
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aaronpk
attention profile? what?
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KevinMarks
you derive those by having a lot of likes to look at
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KevinMarks
by uploading my photos, Google knows I like Canoes and Birds http://known.kevinmarks.com/#automatic%20image%20tagging
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dym_cx
i can like "being alone", but there are no posts of such content
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KartikPrabhu
but then what would "being alone" as an attention thing get you?
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KartikPrabhu
as in what's the use of publishing it?
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dym_cx
same with general profile info
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KartikPrabhu
which is?
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dym_cx
some [important] information to share
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KartikPrabhu
I have general profile info so people can use it in comment display/contact info
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KartikPrabhu
"important" how? what is the use-case?
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dym_cx
i gues searching for people with simmilar interests
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dym_cx
s/wrond words/words
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dym_cx
no autocorrect? :D
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aaronpk
only works on the last lien
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aaronpk
s/lien/line
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Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: only works on the last line
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KevinMarks
right, that's the dating site profile case
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dym_cx
"same interests" can lead to collaborations, yes
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KevinMarks
I think what happened is that people were not interested enough in sharing their interest streams per se
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KevinMarks
and the people who were excited about the business implications were offputting
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KevinMarks
interesting nascar bar on youtube
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dym_cx
currently the way i find new indie[web] people and resources is by clicking on every available link on the wiki and looking through all of them
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kylewm
KevinMarks: were you doing some research recently for tiling images of different sizes together (a la pinterest)?
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KevinMarks
there's a thing called masonry that does it with JS
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kylewm
brilliant, thanks!!
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KevinMarks
that what I used for pestagram
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kylewm
KevinMarks++ that worked a treat, thank you
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 116 karma
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dym_cx
those icons sorted simply by popularity, is my guess. no one uses digg anymore :sad:
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KartikPrabhu
dym_cx: people get tired of silos when a newer shinier ting comes along so <shrug>
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dym_cx
rip myspace
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KartikPrabhu
what is site-deaths?
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Loqi
google_announcement.png Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking their content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly https://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths
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KartikPrabhu
lol what's that png thingie there?
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KartikPrabhu
yeah I know it shouldn't be in the definition
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KartikPrabhu
what is summary?
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aaronparecki.com
edited /site-deaths (+2) "separate the image"
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Loqi
A summary is short text that conveys a post's main point(s), or a plain text equivalent for kinds of posts like likes and RSVPs that use other properties to convey their meaning https://indiewebcamp.com/summary
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: thanks! i was going to copy-pasta from /summary :)
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dym_cx
i like the smell of haystack of html, wiki, markdown and php in the morning :)
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dym_cx
but the fact the CASSIS is technically possible does not mean it should be a thing, imo.
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dym_cx
> if ("00"==false) {/*javascript*/} ( from http://tantek.pbworks.com/w/page/19402872/CassisProject )
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dym_cx
i dont even.
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KevinMarks
you missed the orignal
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KevinMarks
his tweet about it predates node.js https://twitter.com/t/status/2215180366
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@t
if ("00"==false) {/*javascript*/} else if ("0"==false) {/*php*/} else if (0==false) {/*c*/} else {/*ruby*/} //#cassisproject
(twitter.com/_/status/2215180366)
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KartikPrabhu
isomorphic JS anyone ;)
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KevinMarks
the comment block voodoo is also very amusing
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dym_cx
according to wiki, this tweet was 3 week after 0.1 on node
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dym_cx
*0.0.1
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Loqi
!calc *0.0.1
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aaronpk
wait when did facebook start doing threaded/nested comments?!
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KevinMarks
right but node was obscure then - tantek just took a different approach
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KevinMarks
a couple of months ago I think?
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aaronpk
i apparently don't use facebook much
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KevinMarks
it was opt-in for pages first
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KevinMarks
I think it went global more recently
fkooman, frzn_ and indie-visitor joined the channel
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
snarfed, j12t, nloadholtes, Sebastien-L, KevinMarks_, KartikPrabhu, mdik and dym_cx joined the channel
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@StartupLJackson
"To activate your decentralized digital blockchain identity just enter your gmail address and connect your Twitter account." 😐
(twitter.com/_/status/607040867103219712)
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dym_cx
this is how i felt first time i learned what indieAuth was
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KartikPrabhu
in a good way or bad way ?
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dym_cx
bad.
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KartikPrabhu
what was bad about IndieAuth?
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KartikPrabhu
come on Loqi!
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dym_cx
we want to be independent of silos. lets bind our idetities to them.
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Loqi
woot!
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KartikPrabhu
dym_cx: not really. IndieAuth can work with your own site acting as identity. there is a long standing bug which aaronpk should resolve for this
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KartikPrabhu
right now IndieAuth is piggy backing on silos to be easy. Setting up login/authentication on your own site is far from easy
snarfed joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
dym_cx: though that is a fair criticism of IndieAuth as it stands now
modem joined the channel
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dym_cx
any thoughts on using PGP to provide identification (like keybase.io doeas)?