#indiewebcamp 2015-06-15

2015-06-15 UTC
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aaronpk
woohoo just made a new file with my brand new micropub endpoint
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snarfed
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 843 karma
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aaronpk
next up is editing and deleting
snarfed, yakker, tilgovi, wolftune, One_Ironaut, KevinMarks__, lukebrooker, icwyd and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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acegiak
Morning all!
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acegiak
Anyone have good suggestions for cheap php hosting for a WordPress blog?
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GWG
Morning, acegiak
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GWG
And for the first time in over a week, it isn't true for me
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GWG
VPS or non VPS?
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acegiak
Morning GWG! Not morning for you?
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acegiak
GWG: probably just a shared host. Going for bottom dollar.
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acegiak
A friend is using WordPress.com and just paying for her domain name
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GWG
acegiak: I was in GMT+3, I'm back to GMT-4
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GWG
acegiak: I have a service that if you pay for a year, will give you a VPS for USD12/year.
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GWG
They aren't bad on reliability.
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GWG
That is why I asked
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acegiak
Trying to work out if I can figure an indieweb friendly solution that is competitive enough to be appealing
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acegiak
GWG: that's an amazing price. What's the stats?
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GWG
Excuse me, $10 a year
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GWG
256mb RAM
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GWG
50GB storage
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snarfed
acegiak: i'm on pair.com shared hosting, and i love it. the lowest tier $6/mo is more than enough for wp
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snarfed
and i definitely recommend shared hosting over VPS for a standard wp user
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snarfed
sysadmin—
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snarfed
but wordpress.com is pretty good. why switch? she wants an unsupported plugin or theme?
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GWG
snarfed: I was just speaking of cheap.
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acegiak
Yeah she's just doing super basic stuff but it would be cool to get her in a spot where she can do indieweb stuff as I lure her down the rabbit hole
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snarfed
GWG: yup, but other factors always still matter
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snarfed
lots of discussion of the tradeoffs on https://indiewebcamp.com/web_hosting
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snarfed
acegiak: wp.com can do indieauth, webmentions (via bridgy), and micropub (via silo.pub)
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acegiak
Snarfed: I assumed WordPress.com wouldn't support webmentions etc
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snarfed
no hurry to escape
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acegiak
I'm looking at the hostgator hatchling plan right now
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snarfed
having other good people handle the sysadmin is a *big*, underrated win
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snarfed
shared hosting gets you half of that. a fully hosted service like wp.com or known is all the way
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acegiak
This true! I am definitely projecting my aversion to using third party services onto others.
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snarfed
owning your domain is the key. how far beyond that is up to the individual
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acegiak
Will WordPress.com let us use something like sempress or mf2_s?
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acegiak
Yeah I guess I need to learn to look past my own priorities
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snarfed
acegiak: they whitelist a small subset of themes/plugins
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GWG
snarfed: I doubt they'd whitelist mine. Maybe the webmention one.
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GWG
The barrier is the same barrier pingbacks and trackbacks have...they became such a spam magnet, no one wants to improve them.
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GWG
I keep trying to overcome resistance.
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gRegorLove
KartikPrabhu: Did I infer correctly you're coming to IWC Portland?
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gRegorLove
When I read "must think of a cool thing to show off for IWC"
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: unfortunately not. but it is a good time to show off things even if remotely :)
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kylewm
acegiak: I was very happy with A Small Orange's $35/year shared hosting plan. Also NearlyFreeSpeech.net could be very cheap for a low traffic site
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Loqi
kylewm: tantek left you a message 6 hours, 18 minutes ago: is there a built-in Connected Service to propagate Known posts automatically to Tumblr? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-14/line/1434321768854
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acegiak
kylewm: oh neat! thanks!
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acegiak
at the moment I'm looking at webhostingpad.com but it looks like they don't have ssl for their basic package
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kylewm
SSL is extra for the ones I mentioned too
lukebrooker, One_Ironaut, cweiske, j12t, lukebroo_, KartikPrabhu, gRegorLove and wolftune joined the channel
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@ralfheimann
RT @diplix: mein vortrag auf der #nebenan-konferenz am 6. juni zum thema #indieweb und blogdings in schriftform: http://wirres.net/7785
(twitter.com/_/status/610328170613633024)
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@hagengraf
@blueforce1 nein, genau sowas brauche ich nicht :) Ich möchte etwas in dieser Richtung haben -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IndieWeb
(twitter.com/_/status/610330071488925696)
KevinMarks___, LauraJ, Jihaisse, One_Ironaut, KartikPrabhu, Zegnat, lukebrooker and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
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Zegnat
Good morning all
pfefferle, squeakytoy, evalica, KartikPrabhu, lukebrooker, friedcell, elima and petermolnar joined the channel
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@strugee2
RT @aaronpk: Only 26 days until IndieWebCamp! http://indiewebcamp.com/2015 This year in Portland and Brighton!
(twitter.com/_/status/610357280156987393)
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petermolnar
good morning indieweb
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petermolnar
pfefferle, GWG in case you're around: I'm curious about your opinion about the directions WordPress is going towards with their goals & development lately; IMHO there was no real gain since 4.0 (3.8?) in any actual, real-life use
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pfefferle
good morning
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petermolnar
for example, I'm a bit angry that to disable emoji support, I need to hack the system with hooks & filters; that should be optional and in the core ( reason: the JS fallback they include is a memory eater )
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cweiske
petermolnar, pfefferle - since you are the wordpress guys: is there a way to allow password-protected access to wordpress feeds?
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petermolnar
not out of the box
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petermolnar
probably there's a plugin for it
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petermolnar
in theory it's doable in the webserver itself, but that's tricky
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cweiske
I got access to a private wordpress blog where you have to log in
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cweiske
but I can't use my feed reader now for it..
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GWG
petermolnar: I've seen some minor improvements. Bug fixes, a few areas.
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petermolnar
I mostly see eyecandy clutter
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GWG
Plenty of stuff I don't care about, yes.
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GWG
The Press This rewrite, while I don't use it, was a great way to get people sharing, for example.
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GWG
petermolnar: My efforts to get certain changes made haven't born fruit.
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petermolnar
for me it seems like they are concentrating on visuals mostly while the media library backend is still a piece of [] for example
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GWG
Go even lower. There is a proposal for a database abstraction layer to remove dependence on MySQL. No one has wanted to take it on, I guess.
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petermolnar
oh, the db debate
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petermolnar
I've nearly forgot about that
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mey.vn
edited /2015/Brighton (+303) "/* Participating */"
(view diff)
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GWG
petermolnar: So, let's turn the discussion to a positive. What can we do?
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petermolnar
make a db astraction layer :D
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GWG
I'm more interested in getting Indieweb stuff into WordPress bit by bit.
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petermolnar
well, db is an indieweb antipattern, isn't i? :)
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GWG
petermolnar: I'm not prepared to tackle that one
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GWG
Even within the community, it is a debated topic.
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petermolnar
there's no real debate, it has to be done, especially now that posgres is making a pretty impressive comeback, with native json and faster than solr full text search
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GWG
petermolnar: I meant the antipattern debate.
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petermolnar
oh, that one
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cweiske
some people in here think that db is an antipattern
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GWG
cweiske: That's why I'm not touching that one.
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cweiske
while I count me on the indieweb side, I do not support the db-is-bad issue
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GWG
I think people should use whatever backend storage system they want.
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GWG
petermolnar: Any interest in trying to get linkback improvements into WordPress?
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petermolnar
GWG, cweiske I was kidding with the db-antipattern thing; I just wanted to "justify" that the wordpress-db-issue is indiweb-related
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petermolnar
GWG please give me more details about the linkback improvements
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GWG
The freedom part is, I think.
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GWG
petermolnar: Well, I've mentioned this a few times. People do not think linkbacks are 'useful'. Most WordPress users think of the current built in ones: trackback and pingback, as spam targets.
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petermolnar
don't forget the possibility of using pingback as a ddos originator :/
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GWG
So, if someone proposed adding webmention support to WordPress...people would say it was another target, without seeing a benefit.
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cweiske
GWG, which bug tracker issues do you have for the linkback improvements?
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GWG
cweiske: I don't. I have a few for mf2 that met resistance.
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cweiske
one of the issues/patches would be to get native webmention support into the core, right?
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cweiske
sending/receiving
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GWG
I figure the only way to drum up interest in linkbacks in general, and webmentions as an improved delivery mechanism is to come up with an overall improvement
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GWG
cweiske: Yes. I was just saying that to do it, it has to be a value proposition.
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GWG
I've been trying to come up with an idea on that people can get behind in the community.
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GWG
The WordPress community in this case
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petermolnar
GWG I have no idea what could be said that will make the WP community listen to the importance of linkbacks
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GWG
petermolnar: A watered down version of Semantic Linkbacks
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GWG
Improve linkback presentation
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petermolnar
I mean even pingbacks/trackbacks are treated as leftovers; it doesn't seem like anyone cares about the topic itself
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GWG
People thought no one cared about Press This.
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pfefferle
GWG petermolnar I don’t think they will support mf2 any time soon
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pfefferle
GWG any ideas to improve presentation?
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pfefferle
GWG petermolnar Automattic added SemPress to the WordPress.com directory, but they removed all MF2 stuff before :(
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Zegnat
If the proof-of-work part of webmentions were to be further explored, could that be an argument for WordPress to implement it? As it is an anti-spam feature not offered by the existing pinbacks/trackbacks
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GWG
Zegnat: Do we have one? Vouch is limited in its support even in the community.
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GWG
pfefferle: You and acegiak have already done some of it. Semantic Linkbacks changes the default trackback and pingback presentations to something nicer.
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Zegnat
If I understand it correctly, you don’t need Vouch, the p-o-w can be checked on the WordPress side of things. No third parties needed.
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GWG
Zegnat: Implementation in the community is still limited. We don't have proof of concept.
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Zegnat
Are there any specific reasons people have chosen not the implement it? I guess that is the biggest hurdle. I am thinking of implementing it once I get my webmention endpoint spinning
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GWG
I'm not sure.
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petermolnar
pfefferle what were their reasons to remove mf2 support from SemPress?
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pfefferle
petermolnar I don’t know I did not get any feedback at all
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pfefferle
GWG I stuck with the comment feature (facepiles) btw… and I am not sure if it is possible without a custom Walker :(
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GWG
pfefferle: I'm working on a custom walker for mf2_s as my next project.
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pfefferle
I saw that, that’s why I mentioned it ;)
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GWG
pfefferle: My plan is to offer the walker both as part of mf2_s and as a separate plugin.
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pfefferle
We can still integrate it in the Semantic Linkback plugin if you want
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pfefferle
and I started a Grunt-Init plugin for WordPress plugins https://github.com/pfefferle/grunt-init-wordpress-plugin
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GWG
pfefferle: I will be back to you on that once I write it.
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GWG
Premise: Linkbacks are useless.
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GWG
Solution: Make them useful.
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pfefferle
GWG the problem is, that this is how the spec describes it and the WordPress community likes specs
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GWG
Where in the spec does it specify presentation?
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GWG
I just read the thing
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cweiske
pingback spec?
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cweiske
that's an example
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cweiske
not a MUST
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GWG
The pingback spec does not show anything I could find about how to present.
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cweiske
Bob's blog also retrieves other data required from the content of Alice's new post, such as the page title, an extract of the page content surrounding the link to Bob's post, any attributes indicating which language the page is in, and so forth.
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GWG
cweiske: I quoted that. But it doesn't say how to display them.
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GWG
It says it retrieves them. Which suggests it uses them to generate a useful display.
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GWG
I'm suggesting the current display is useless and needs to be made useful.
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GWG
My solution is a 'watered-down' version of Semantic Linkbacks, basically.
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pfefferle
what means ”žwatered-down“?
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GWG
pfefferle: Lite?
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GWG
pfefferle: Basically, Semantic Linkbacks without the built-in parsing.
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pfefferle
but what stays if you remove parsing?
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GWG
pfefferle: The display functionality that can be enhanced by plugin.
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pfefferle
but isn’t that the case we actually have?
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GWG
pfefferle: I want to improve the default so people want to use pingbacks and trackbacks again, so we can move them to webmentions, basically.
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pfefferle
GWG ok, got it
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GWG
pfefferle: I've tried an all-in approach where I try to get everything I want. I'm trying something more gradual.
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pfefferle
GWG diplomatic ;)
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GWG
pfefferle: For most people, linkbacks are like the human appendix. It's there, but no one cares about it until a bout of appendicitis(SPAM/DDOS).
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GWG
People are starting to think the same way about comments and trying to replace them with Disqus, Facebook, etc.
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petermolnar
stupid ctrl-c
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GWG
petermolnar: Isn't revitalizing linkbacks a way to get to reply on your own site?
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GWG
Baby steps?
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petermolnar
I'm not dropping the support, though I'm not presenting any comments at the moment, but that is a philosophical choice at the moment
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petermolnar
pingbacks are good and useful, but even their author has moved on to webmentions ( http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2014/11/29/enabling-webmentions/ ) so I don't really understand why the ignorance from wordpress
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GWG
petermolnar: Playing devil's advocate...anticipating the core response.. "Why should webmentions be in core?"
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petermolnar
becase EMOJIS
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GWG
petermolnar: "I'm closing this ticket as WONTFIX"
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petermolnar
I'm aware of the argument methods in the wp community unfortunately
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GWG
I'm trying to subvert from within
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petermolnar
I wonder how many of us though about actually forking WP to make a minimalist core, suitable for interconnected stuff
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tommorris
when I think of WordPress, "forking" isn't the first verb that comes to mind. :-)
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petermolnar
without WYSIWYG editor, without eyecandy, without Google Fonts, emojis, heaviweight brutal javascript but with the actual tools for interconnected sites... oh wait, I might be describing known :D
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tommorris
when I learned that people were using WordPress as an ecommerce system and storing each order as a private post, with people's credit card data as the post metadata...
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GWG
Taking your ball and going home is not necessarily the best solution
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GWG
tommorris: People doing stupid things happens everywhere
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petermolnar
tommorris please tell me you're joking there
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tommorris
the problem with WordPress is that everyone has decided they want to be able to use it for everything. so it becomes the ultimate adaptable ball of string. it becomes a badly designed CMS that consultants who couldn't code their way out of a paper bag use for everything. and they make such a steaming pile of shit with it, that it then becomes unmaintainable
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tommorris
and a massive security vulnerability
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GWG
Either way, I'm going to try to work within the system, even though that may ultimately be futile.
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tommorris
petermolnar: nope, it gets worse - because of the new RESTful JSON API that WordPress is adding, all the people doing that kind of stuff are going to have all their data exposed.
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petermolnar
oh, I've realized that; I tried the JSON API plugin and nearly literally screamed when I realized what it's actually doing
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tommorris
it's a good idea in theory, but because of the thousands of ways people are misusing WordPress, it's a hilariously bad idea in practice
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adactio.com
edited /2015/Brighton (+313) "/* Participating */"
(view diff)
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petermolnar
wow, sum 36 participants for Brighton so far
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petermolnar
that's pretty good
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GWG
Now that I am hone, I need a venue for NYC.
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petermolnar
yeah, I don't know where I'm staying in Brighton yet, prices are "funny" in that city during summer
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petermolnar
it's cheaper to traval there and back for both days w/ train
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petermolnar
s/traval/travel
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Loqi
petermolnar meant to say: it's cheaper to travel there and back for both days w/ train
eschnou, evalica, j12t, tantek, alexhartley, snarfed and wolftune joined the channel
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@genniebeannie
Indieweb POSSE! #ASCUE15 #jimgroom
(twitter.com/_/status/610452113613828096)
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Zegnat
If I am sending several webmentions to the same domain, should I check for the endpoint URL separately for each linked page or can I assume 1 endpoint per domain?
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tantek
you have to do discovery for each page, since there is no protocol / assumption for sharing such information across pages
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Zegnat
thanks tantek
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tantek
Zegnat: if you find a performance problem/challenge, on either the sender/receiver of webmentions, please document (even if minor evidence) and we can look at it to see what should be done
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snarfed
fwiw, some consumers do make that assumption in the field right now
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snarfed
(not proud of it; just saying :P)
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snarfed
i'd be curious to know if any current webmention receivers use different endpoints per page
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Zegnat
I haven’t seen any actual problems with it. I just thought it was a bit weird to check for endpoint several times if I am sending 3 webmentions to e.g. 3 different notes on tantek.com
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snarfed
(and not expiring endpoints, those are different)
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tantek
Zegnat, snarfed, right and agreed on all points.
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vanderven.se martijn
edited /Webmention (+478) "/* Brainstorming */ checking endpoint once per domain"
(view diff)
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Zegnat
is getting the hang of adding all conversations to the wiki
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tantek
Zegnat: it does seem all current implementations / sites put their endpoints at the same URL on a domain regardless of which page is being webmentioned.
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Zegnat
Yeah, I was excepting that to be the case, tantek. But it is not actually a requirement for them to do so. So it remains an uncleared question until properly documented
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tantek
I'm not sure we should add that assumption
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tantek
for one thing, doing so is *less* RESTfule
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tantek
s/RESTfule/RESTful
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: for one thing, doing so is *less* RESTful
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tantek
in REST - every URL is its own endpoint, and the HTTP verbs are the API for that endpoint
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Zegnat
yeah, but then all you would need to do is put in a short HEAD request. Right now all implementations need to parse HTML, which is harder
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Zegnat
I don’t really care either way, to be frank, I was just wondering how people have been implementing it :) I will follow suit
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tantek
Zegnat: if a URL sends back the webmention endpoint in the HEAD with a LINK header, there is no need to get/parse its HTML
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Zegnat
I guess that is true. Maybe I should split my discovery code to always start with a HEAD request only.
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tantek
Zegnat that is what I do now
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Zegnat
Currently I just do a GET and check for the Link header first thing.
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csarven
Should dreadlocks be mandatory for #indiewebcamp members? Discuss..
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Loqi
csarven: tantek left you a message on 6/14 at 3:04pm: all your /permashortcitation related questions already on the wiki in either "Why" sections or FAQs. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-14/line/1434319471490
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Zegnat
what are dreadlocks?
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Zegnat
csarven, please wiki it first ;)
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@codebear
@brianloveswords would I be able to pick your brain a bit in regards to meetup spaces in NYC? We are planning an IndieWeb Camp next month.
(twitter.com/_/status/610466848321216512)
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bear
!tell tantek I just learned that Mozilla has a Brooklyn space and a Manhatten space - would you be able to find out if either of those are available for IWC?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronpk
I can think of a situation where I would have different webmention endpoints for pages on my domain
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aaronpk
if I publish some sort of flat archive of stuff, like my twitter export, or an old version of my site, I would probably get nginx to serve the webmention HTTP header pointing to webmention.io
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ben_thatmustbeme
yes, thats why you should look up endpoints by the page, not the domain
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aaronpk
but the rest of my site that is running p3k would be using its own webmention endpoint
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aaronpk
yep, just wanting to give an example
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aaronpk
more likely to happen first is if we finally build webmention RSVPs into wiki pages, I would be setting a different webmention endpoint for pages that are events
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KevinMarks__
Gwg the killer feature for webmention in wp is bridgy support so fb and twitter responses show up too. That's been a lightbulb moment for wp users in the past
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gRegorLove
GWG: Does the WordPress Webmention plugin use the core Pingback functionality? Can you use webmention while disabling Pingback?
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aaronpk
here's a great way to replicate a backup copy of your site to every visitor https://twitter.com/a_de_pasquale/status/608997818913665024
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@a_de_pasquale
Weird 64MB favicon.ico turning out to be a TAR backup of the whole WP site, downloaded by every browser passing by... https://twitter.com/a_de_pasquale/status/608997818913665024/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/608997818913665024)
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Loqi
hahahaha
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Zegnat
Brilliant, though poor visitors grabbing 64MB favicon files all the time
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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cweiske
aaronpk, I still get a "Something went horribly wrong!" when trying to use my own indieauth server on indieauth.com
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aaronpk
heh, downside of running indieauth.com on 3 different servers is looking at logs is harder
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cweiske
unless you have a central log server
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aaronpk
i might need to do that
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bear
log services like loggly or logentries has a free level that is nice to use
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bear
the only issue is that they don't retain data for very long
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aaronpk
eh, i'd rather just run syslog
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bear
(or that ;)
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benwerd
bear: would you recommend either of those?
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Loqi
benwerd: dym_cx left you a message 1 day, 2 hours ago: [suggestion] compile a list of some sites using withknown http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-14/line/1434298708290
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Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message on 6/14 at 3:42pm: is there a built-in Connected Service to propagate Known posts automatically to Tumblr? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-14/line/1434321768854
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bear
@benwerd yes, they both are run by very good teams and have great support (i've used them both for clients)
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benwerd
!tell tantek We just whiteboarded a sprint for this week, and Tumblr is on it
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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benwerd
bear: Awesome. Thanks. We need something better than what Elastic Beanstalk is giving us.
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bear
the deciding points for either are the secondary features you need - they both have slightly different takes on what logs are used for
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aaronpk
well that was easy. now I have syslog-ng sending the logs from the other servers to one of them
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cweiske
so shall I try again?
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aaronpk
go for it
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cweiske
you updated something. it does not recognize my indieauth server anymore
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aaronpk
i didn't change anything, but it's possible you ended up ona different server that didn't have that one cached
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cweiske
ah. and I did update something
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cweiske
my index page doesn't send the indieauth header
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cweiske
that's what you get for being user friendly
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cweiske
Something went horribly wrong!
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cweiske
aaronpk, there you go
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aaronpk
oh I think it's not sending you the client_id parameter
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aaronpk
i'm second-guessing that comment of mine. would you expect to see the client_id of indieauth.com in this case?
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aaronpk
no..my first comment was right. you'd want to see the client_id of the wiki
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cweiske
not really. indieauth.com should already be showing me that I am logging into the wiki
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aaronpk
cause in this case indieauth.com is just a subsystem of the wiki
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cweiske
do whatever you prefer
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aaronpk
i'm sure one of the options will be the clear winner once I sit down and do it
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@matthaig1
I don't think Twitter is the place to conduct intelligent debate. Like walking into a boxing ring and asking for a game of Scrabble.
(twitter.com/_/status/610160250130403328)
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GWG
KevinMarks: A third party service is proof of concept, but can't be everything
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gRegorLove
Lodging acquired for IWC Portland!
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aaronpk
woohoo!
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GWG
gRegorLove: webmentions piggyback on the pingback system in WordPress
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gRegorLove
GWG: Interesting. I use Disable XML-RPC Pingback plugin on several client sites which removes the pingback.ping method.
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gRegorLove
Not that they're likely to be using the Webmention plugin, but just thought of it and wondered if that might cause problems.
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GWG
gRegorLove: That would still allow webmentions, but if you turn off the settings for sll linkbacks that would affect webmentions
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gRegorLove
Ok, good to know
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GWG
gRegorLove: I want to see if anyone thinks there is value in enhancements before proposing a new standard to support
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snarfed1
benwerd: bear: re log collection, i can also strongly recommend scalyr
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snarfed1
whoa, congrats on the https://kylewm.com/ restyle kylewm!
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snarfed1
i like it
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kylewm
thanks snarfed1! similar to before, just trying ot make it clearer who is replying to whom
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kylewm
(to better show off salmentions)
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aaronpk
it's a little subtle which of those is the "main" post on that page
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aaronpk
I'd suggest doing something like making the background of the main one brighter
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kylewm
yeah, you're right it is
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KevinMarks_
also, acegiak shows up twice
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kylewm
hmm, yeah one is https and one is http... I guess I don't de-dupe those
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper
created /unmpc (+269) "unmpc Micropub client implemented as Unhosted web app"
(view diff)
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john-ellison.com
edited /2015/Brighton (+315) "Added myself (John Ellison) to participants list."
(view diff)
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wwelves.org perpetual-tripper
edited /Micropub (+220) "/* Clients */ += unmpc"
(view diff)
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john-ellison.com
edited /2015/Brighton (+2) "Added higher res image for my attendee avatar (John Ellison)"
(view diff)
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elf-pavlik
jancborchardt, slvrbckt, raucao ^ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-15/line/1434401812338
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kylewm
elf-pavlik: whoa, awesome, is unmpc up somewhere?
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kylewm
oh sorry I see it now
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kylewm
demo:
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kylewm
ah, requires indiecert
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elf-pavlik
resource server dictates authorization server and for now it only works against https://phubble.tuxed.net/
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elf-pavlik
but i will add discovery on html of space page similar as home page has micropub endpoints
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elf-pavlik
IMO indiecert.net could delegate authentication to indieauth.com for allowed credentials discovered but other than rel="publickey" (X.509)
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elf-pavlik
and vice versa? ^ aaronpk
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elf-pavlik
what is credentials?
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elf-pavlik
what is credential?
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elf-pavlik
Loqi, how can i quicly bookmark https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/ with tag: credentials ?
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aaronpk
post it on your site?
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elf-pavlik
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 845 karma
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elf-pavlik
i can now just post it with unmpc to https://phubble.tuxed.net/elf-pavlik/
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elf-pavlik
phubble++
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Loqi
phubble has 1 karma
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gRegorLove
I get an "untrusted connection" for https://phubble.tuxed.net/elf-pavlik/
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elf-pavlik
fkooman didn't wan't to issue cert with StartSSL for his root domain so for now self signed :S
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elf-pavlik
what is letsencrypt?
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Loqi
Let’s Encrypt is a new Certificate Authority intended to be free, automated, and open https://indiewebcamp.com/letsencrypt
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elf-pavlik
letsencrypt++
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Loqi
letsencrypt has 1 karma
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kylewm
gRegorLove: it's CAcert though
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kylewm
which is legit, imho
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johannesdachsel.com
edited /2015/Brighton (+265) "/* Participating */"
(view diff)
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elf-pavlik
what is CAcert?
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elf-pavlik
what is cacert?
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Zegnat
CAcert might be legit, except they do not actually have any of the audits in place to show the world they are legit
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elf-pavlik
kylewm, i plan for secret spaces on phubble using same barer token as for micropub to GET html / json / ...
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aaronpk
probably a missing intermediate cert
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aaronpk
it works fine for me in chrome but some browsers are mor picky
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elf-pavlik
aaronpk, did you have chance to look at AS2.0 Action Handlers? copy: http://elf-pavlik.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams2-actions.html
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elf-pavlik
tomorow i wan to see if both mentioned can possibly describe micropub endpoint as action handler for create/update/delete (HTTP POST) or web page for view/read (HTTP GET)
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elf-pavlik
it has very improvised ACL with you whitelisted
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kylewm
thanks elf-pavlik :)
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kylewm
that's really cool
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elf-pavlik
tomorrow i will meet someone who implmeneted in javascript ACL based on https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebAccessControl
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Zegnat
kylewm: I seem to recall a lot of the unix-based OS on the cacert list only support it because they use Debian’s ca-certificates, so with Debian shuffling cacert to a separate package we might even see the amount of systems with CAcert included go down rather than up :(
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adactio.com
edited /2015/Brighton (-1) "/* Participating */"
(view diff)
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elf-pavlik
kylewm, i would like to add to unmpc support of saving all messages to personal https://remotestorage.io/ before publishing them on remote spaces like powered by phubble
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elf-pavlik
aaronpk, on h-entry wiki page i didn't see equivalentProperty to http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams2-vocabulary.html#dfn-generator
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aaronpk
what is credit?
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Loqi
giving credit is a collection of cultural practices related to acknowledging and attributing text, hyperlinks, quotes, utterances to others, typically by name, as a way of recognizing their contribution(s) https://indiewebcamp.com/credit
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elf-pavlik
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 846 karma
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aaronpk
i'm using the client_id for the value there
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aaronpk
client_id being a URL so I can go fetch an h-card
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aaronpk
for the app
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elf-pavlik
unhosted app? :)
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aaronpk
needs a URL anyway
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aaronpk
at the very least as a place for people to find out about it
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aaronpk
but also to "register" the redirect URIs there
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elf-pavlik
fkooman ATM enforces same host for client_id and redirect_uri but for unhosted and native apps it may not work...
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aaronpk
right, that's why if you publish the list of valid redirect URIs on the app's home page (client_id) then it works great
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elf-pavlik
so everyone needs to deploy a home page for app one uses? maybe via https://pagekite.net/
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aaronpk
doesn't matter what is used to generate/host the home page as long as it's available at a URL
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elf-pavlik
i don't see 'posted using' on https://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2015/06/15/080915/
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aaronpk
not all of them have it
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aaronpk
like the ones that are created using a script that just write files to my storage, they don't use any sort of auth process nor do they go through my micropub endpoint, so they don't credit any app
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elf-pavlik
i can't use for client_id something like https://unmpc.local
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aaronpk
no, it needs to be resolvable by the authorization server
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elf-pavlik
but i can run browser based apps this way https://unmpc.local
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elf-pavlik
and have my web server manage TLS for .local with self issued cert :)
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aaronpk
remember you're in the indie*web*camp channel here, which is a specific subset of all internet technologies
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aaronpk
so you're going to get web-centric responses
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aaronpk
which means things like public URLs
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elf-pavlik
i understand for resource servers, but for clients like browser based or native apps ?
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aaronpk
if you write, publish and distribute a web-based or native app, you're still going to make a web page for it right?
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elf-pavlik
but people need to fork it to use it :)
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aaronpk
no they don't, you don't fork an app when you downlaod it from Apple's app store
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bret
my site is forkable :]
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elf-pavlik
so redirect_uri will use https://unmpc.local but i can use http://indiewebcamp.com/unmpc for client_id
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elf-pavlik
what about that 'register redirect_uri' part?
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bret
client_id was for client attribution... like old twitter basically had
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aaronpk
put "https://unmps.local" on the wiki page
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bret
"posted by tweetbot"
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elf-pavlik
i can make a page for each instance of an app i use!
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elf-pavlik
and register different devices with different .local redirect_uri
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elf-pavlik
i must admit that i don't understand why i need to keep my .local setup public on app pages :|
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aaronpk
well you only need to if you want to protect against redirect attacks
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elf-pavlik
"for client_id https://example.com/ a server can find its valid redirect URIs by looking for <link rel="redirect_uri" href="https://example.com/callback"> at example.com"
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elf-pavlik
great links! aaronpk++
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bret
yeah, hacking with aaronpk is a good way to learn about self encoded tokens :]
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elf-pavlik
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-2.1 only web application has confidential type?
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aaronpk
elf-pavlik: yeah, the only apps that can maintain a secret are web apps. but in the context of indieauth, client_secret is never used
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aaronpk
wow that's an old post, coming up on 3 years now
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aaronpk
i'm glad OAuth 2 hasn't changed in that time!
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: don't jinx it ;)
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