#indiewebcamp 2015-06-23

2015-06-23 UTC
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kylewm
/v2.3/me gives "link": "http://www.facebook.com/12802152", but i'm guessing for a new app, you'll get the app-scoped ID there instead
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kylewm
and it doesn't seem to have facebook.com/kyle.mahan in there at all...
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kylewm
I think this might be a deal-breaker ben_thatmustbeme :(
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kylewm
yeah, confirmed, for a newer app, i get back
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kylewm
"link": "https://www.facebook.com/app_scoped_user_id/10101059883222449/",
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snarfed
yup. that's the exact intent of app scoped user ids
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acegiak
kylewm: your salmention comment parsing doesn't seem to have picked up the second comment here: https://acegiak.net/2015/06/22/i-get-it-where-lost-was-unrelentingly-focused-on-father-issues-sense-8-is-the-same-about-mothers/
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kylewm
Inoticed that too :(
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ben_thatmustbeme
Kylewm, ive come to that conclusion too
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kylewm
acegiak: I see, the second comment doesn't have a u-url for some reason
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acegiak
kylewm: oh! I hadn't noticed that
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acegiak
I'll see if I can fix that
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kylewm
do you exclude the "via" link when it's from your own domain?
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KevinMarks_
hm, the hcard on https://twitter.com/intent/user?user_id=57203 puts the external URL inside the <p class="adr">
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KevinMarks_
which is a bit odd
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KevinMarks_
mf2py makes url a field of adr, not sure what a classic mf1 parser would do
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acegiak
kylewm: no, I think I've failed to fill a field
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acegiak
but really I think the via isn't entirely necessary
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acegiak
the permalink is already on the date link
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acegiak
GWG: The "-via example.com" link in semantic linkbacks that has the u-url maybe shouldn't appear in the comment content block?
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kylewm
+1 to removing it from e-content!
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acegiak
I was thinking of just marking up the default comment permalink with u-url
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gRegorLove
I'm thinking we should link /code-of-conduct on IWC pages like /2015, and maybe from the Guest_List page as well.
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gRegorLove
Not sure the language. "Please familiarize yourself with /code-of-conduct"?
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GWG
acegiak: In my changes to mf2_s or in stock Semantic Linkbacks?
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acegiak
GWG: On my site I've just removed the "via" line from semantic linkbacks
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acegiak
and added u-url to the comment permalink in mf2_s
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acegiak
and now the full chain is going through to kylewm.com
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gregorlove.com
edited /code-of-conduct (+155) "/* Signed */"
(view diff)
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kylewm
acegiak: I like how the smiley turned into an emoticon here https://kylewm.com/2015/06/i-get-it-where-lost-was-unrelentingly-focused-on
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GWG
acegiak: In the latest version of mf2_s, I don't use the comment_text.
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GWG
So no via.
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GWG
I put it elsewhere.
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GWG
Have a look at my website, you'll see in the posts.
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GWG
gRegorLove: What have I asked about before?
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Gregor the code of conduct has been linked on IWC event pages for quite some time - check past pages.
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Loqi
slack/tantek: If it's not on a current event page, it likely got accidentally dropped when copy/pasting creating the page
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Look at /2014 examples and copy past accordingly to any /2015 indiewebcamp event pages that are missing it.
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gRegorLove
Doesn't appear to be on /2015. I'll look at last years
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gRegorLove
I'm not seeing it on /2014 either
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Eg /2014/Cambridge ought to have it
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Did you do a view source and look for the link? Or it's just not obviously there?
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gRegorLove
Yeah, I'm view source searching "conduct"
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Makes sense
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gRegorLove
Got it on Cambridge. Thanks
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Cool. Now I don't remember when we first started adding it to IWC event pages.
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gregorlove.com
edited /2015 (+38) "/* Participating */ +Code of Conduct"
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gRegorLove
Oh, duh. i forgot about the "what links to this page" functionality
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gRegorLove
GWG: how to discover indieweb content
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GWG
That's always been an issue
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Loqi
slack/tantek: What is search?
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Loqi
slack/tantek: What is discovery?
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acegiak
does loqi not answer those prompts from the slack bridge because he hears them as himself or does he display the responses in slack but not irc?
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gRegorLove
Don't think he listens to himself. I don't think Loqi posts directly to slack
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acegiak
GWG: You have a second permalink showing the comment domain?
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GWG
Yes
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acegiak
I've added u-url to the normal permalink incase the second one isn't there?
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GWG
acegiak: Oh?
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acegiak
are there situations where that might happen?
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acegiak
or am I imagining a situation that wouldn't occur?
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GWG
Only a like or such. Not a reply.
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acegiak
GWG: hmm ok. I think I'll leave it in there then. cause a like or repost still needs a u-url?
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GWG
They just wouldn't have the via
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snarfed
GWG: i think the point is that consumers like salmentions still need a u-url for programmatic use cases
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GWG
snarfed: WordPress filters it. See the source code
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KartikPrabhu
what are salmentions?
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Loqi
Salmentions are a way to pass comments upstream by sending a webmention from a reply post to the original post when the reply recieves a comment https://indiewebcamp.com/salmentions
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KartikPrabhu
so on "salmention" the original post need not verify the original of the reply-to-reply?
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KartikPrabhu
using u-url ?
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GWG
acegiak, snarfed: My solution was on my new theme, I display the comment text without using the filter. Which isn't ideal
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acegiak
KartikPrabhu: my implementation doesn't
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KartikPrabhu
what is like?
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Loqi
like is a popular webaction button and in some cases post type on various silos such as Facebook and Instagram (uses a heart ♥) https://indiewebcamp.com/like
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KartikPrabhu
!tell tantek struggling with text-first design of likes which enhance to facepiles. any suggestions?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: what's the point of doing text-first design with an end goal in mind?
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KartikPrabhu
what is text-first design?
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: the idea is to have a good text representation of any response, then suitably mark it up. The goal being it is better for consumption like readers or for notifications and possibly "salmentions"
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KartikPrabhu
if I markup likes in a particular way and send you a "salmention" of it you might want to display it differently
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KartikPrabhu
but you should still have the basic text-representation with suitable HTML markup
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kylewm
what is a facepile?
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Loqi
The Facepile is a design element popularized by Facebook https://indiewebcamp.com/facepile
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kylewm
not really a definition
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kylewm
facebook doesn't have facepiles anymore i guess? they are just "Name, Name, and N more like this photo"
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KartikPrabhu
Twitter still does
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kylewm
both compress them more than we can
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@POTUS
Inspired by what @Pontifex wrote on climate change. Agree we have a moral responsibility to act to protect our kids and God's creation.
(twitter.com/_/status/611675003436843008)
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kylewm
9.3k favorites, 8 of them shown in the facepile
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KartikPrabhu
oh I see. that should be do-able with some JS "more" link but I have no idea how to do it prog-enhanced at the moment without having a separate page for the list of likes of a post
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tantek
good evening #indiewebcamp!
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Loqi
tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 48 minutes ago: struggling with text-first design of likes which enhance to facepiles. any suggestions? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-22/line/1435033776002
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Loqi
[mention] Timo Reitnauer posted 'My new domain name based web presence 4 min read A few weeks...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Known (http://updates.reitnauer.com/2015/my-new-domain-name-based-web-presence)
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gRegorLove
Flickr can apparently add tags to photos that look like people are in them, and group shots. One of mine had both "people" and "groupshot" tags automatically.
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acegiak
what is progressively enhanced?
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acegiak
what is progressive enhancement?
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acegiak
KartikPrabhu: couldn't you do CSS for a facepile like
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acegiak
.hcard not(img.u-photo){display:none;}
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acegiak
.hcard :not(img.u-photo){display:none;}
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acegiak
.h-card :not(img.u-photo){display:none;}
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acegiak
and then jQuery(".h-card").click(function(){jQuery(this).children().show();}) ?
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KartikPrabhu
bleh jquery
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acegiak
can someone give me the elevator of the criticisms of jQuery?
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KartikPrabhu
too big a library to do very little
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KartikPrabhu
acegiak: if I were doing a show/hide without requesting more data I'd use this: http://www.lottejackson.com/blog/building-a-css-toggle-feature-with-checked-and-flexbox
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acegiak
fair enough. I'll admit size considerations have pretty much left my brain these days
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KartikPrabhu
acegiak: see show/hide implementation with pure CSS here: https://kartikprabhu.com/papers
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acegiak
KartikPrabhu: that's super neat!
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KartikPrabhu
yup no JS at all if not requesting more data
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acegiak
I think in my own stuff: A) that approach relies slightly to much on arcane CSS box-model manipulation for my own taste and B) In wordpress jquery is already loaded so I can just piggyback off that
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KartikPrabhu
acegiak: arcane box-model??
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KartikPrabhu
also B) is not an issue for me. I void jquery like I avoid err... bad fried food ... ?
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acegiak
KartikPrabhu: disregard A) I was misreading the flexbox bit in the first link
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KartikPrabhu
acegiak: flexbox is used there only to move the toggle button below the revealed content. On my page I skipped all that
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acegiak
I see a lot of CSS Tricks using things like "If we make this a float with a certain kind of positioning it disappears 8000px off the side of the page which is pretty much the same as hidden"
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KartikPrabhu
yeah, I try to avoid "magic numbers" or explicilty mark them as such so I can fix them when I figure stuff out better
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KartikPrabhu
also flexbox is very confusing so haven't used it anywhere yet
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gRegorLove
I've read that native JS functionality is pretty stable across browsers now, so most of the basic jQuery things can be done without it. I have not delved into that much myself, though.
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: I have managed to do without jquery so far
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KartikPrabhu
small JS code that does little things you want, instead of giant libraries that do very little
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gRegorLove
Cool. I should clarify it's long been possible to do jQuery-ish without jQuery... just that now we don't have junk like IE6 and 7 to worry about compatibility with, so native JS makes more sense in more cases
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gRegorLove
It was definitely nice to just drop in jQuery and know that I could do something cross-browser :)
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: progressive enhancement takes care fo older browsers but it takes some foresight and skill to do well
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KartikPrabhu
tbh I don't think margialia.js is progressive enhanced yet and I am a bit confused as to how to do it well
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KartikPrabhu
s/margialia.js/marginalia.js
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: tbh I don't think marginalia.js is progressive enhanced yet and I am a bit confused as to how to do it well
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KartikPrabhu
what is jquery?
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Loqi
jQuery is a popular JavaScript framework https://indiewebcamp.com/jQuery
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kylewm
I like jquery :-)
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KartikPrabhu
like bad fried food ;)
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KartikPrabhu
you know it isn't good for you, but is so easy :P
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acegiak
If jQuery is already there for wordpress I may as well use it's convenience without worrying about extra calories.
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KartikPrabhu
well my argument would be jquery shouldn't be already there for wordpress, but oh well
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acegiak
KartikPrabhu: probably not but it's not going anywhere quickly
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KartikPrabhu
one of the reasons I code my website from scratch. all these frameworks and things I don't need
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kylewm
Theme specific?
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acegiak
kylewm: pretty sure it loads it up for it's generic navbar and dashboard?
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acegiak
wordpress core has a function which gets you the instance of Jquery it has loaded.
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gRegorLove
Yeah, jQuery is on by default in WordPress. A hook in the theme can remove it, though (from the front end)
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gRegorLove
I've seen a lot of plugins with the bad habit of including their own jQuery version, so 2 or 3 separate jQuery are called on the front end.
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: ughhh really!?
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gRegorLove
Yeah. WordPress is . . . special.
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KartikPrabhu
is glad to saty away from it
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revere
it awesome
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gRegorLove
KartikPrabhu: Updating your 'like' display, is that was I read?
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: yes. thinkning of updating non-reply displays
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tantek
good late evening #indiewebcamp
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: did you figure out facepiles of likes?
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tantek
and good late evening #indiewebcamp
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KartikPrabhu
not in a text-first way
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KartikPrabhu
also good very late evening tantek
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tantek
ah - is this for salmentions receivers that don't support likes?
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tantek
are there any of those?
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tantek
because I'd expect salmentions receivers to support showing likes on the comments on their posts
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: no salmention stuff yet. Just want to have good text and markup on my like display
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tantek
like or likes?
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tantek
what is a like?
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Loqi
like is a popular webaction button and in some cases post type on various silos such as Facebook and Instagram (uses a heart ♥) https://indiewebcamp.com/like
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tantek
what are likes?
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Loqi
likes are sometimes part of the information about a post displayed on the post itself, sometimes in a post footer https://indiewebcamp.com/likes
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tantek
see they're different :)
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KartikPrabhu
the second one. like-responses to my post
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: what do you think of Facebook's text-only display of likes?
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KartikPrabhu
they seem fine but on an indieweb site without the "show 54 more" type UI a big list of names is not ideal
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tantek
sees a mention of "arcane CSS box-model manipulation" in the logs and cracks his knuckles
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KartikPrabhu
oh judas priest! :P
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tantek
reads jQuery debates, looks for popcorn, finds none.
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KartikPrabhu
was making do with some whiskey! ;)
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tantek
hmm - all the examples on http://youmightnotneedjquery.com/ make it look like your code is much smaller *with* jquery than without.
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tantek
aaronpk: is there anyway to find out which wiki pages were created in 2014?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: except of course you need the humongous jquery library it self
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KartikPrabhu
the point is you almost never need to to do all of those at once and so it is more "economical" to write vanilla JS to do small things
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: oh I agree - I'm just pointing out that the examples are not really selling the point ;)
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: hmmm yeah I would agree. I would have size of jquery + jquery example vs size of vanilla code :)
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acegiak
I think that the point that youmightnotneedjquery.com inadvertantly makes is that jquery is heavier but quicker to write
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acegiak
and vice-versa
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KartikPrabhu
thinks that is a strange twist on "make things easier for publishing" argument
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tantek
interesting bit of indieweb related history, before we even started calling all of this "indieweb" - csarven propose rel="in-reply-to" back in 2008! http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-brainstorming#User_comment_entries
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tantek
and our current u-in-reply-to microformats2 property is based on rel=in-reply-to
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tantek
what is in-reply-to?
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Loqi
in-reply-to is a rel value for use where a post permalink page is a reply to another post https://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to
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tantek
there you go
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tantek
!tell aaronpk is there any way to get a list of wiki pages created in 2014?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't think so, maybe by going into the database directly
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csarven
rel=in-reply-to was first and arguably most notably (to the best of my knowledge) implemented on the StatusNet platform for "conversations", i.e., a thread of status updates in reply to one another across StatusNet instances. The original intention was to link an hentry URL to another hentry URL (which may or may not be the full doc or a fragment in a doc). In parallel, I have used in-reply-to on
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csarven
my own site's comments. Glad that in-reply-to stuck and made its way to mf2.
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tantek.com
created /Template:csarven (+146) "create it since I used it"
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tantek.com
edited /timeline (+262) "/* 2008 */ rel=in-reply-to in HTML proposed by csarven on microformats wiki"
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tantek
csarven - do you know when that was implemented (deployed publicly) in Statusnet?
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csarven
Most likely in 2008.
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tantek
csarven, also, what's your earliest use of in-reply-to on your site's comments? (hopefully with a permalink)
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csarven
Same time.
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tantek
cool - if you find dated permalinks for those let me know!
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csarven
I'm not sure about the earliest use, but the example in the wiki gives it away :) i.e., #comment_20080902144745 . I have since broke that "cool URI" and changed it to #comment-20080902144745. URL for that is http://csarven.ca/my-responses-are-in-white#comment-20080902214745
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tantek
hah - good point. :)0
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csarven
I imagine that is a fairly close date to actual test/use/implementation.
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adactio.com
edited /2015/Brighton (+105) "/* Participating */"
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GWG
Good morning
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adactio.com
edited /Main_Page (+92) "/* IndieWebCamp 2015 */"
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tommorris
adding i18n support to the next version of ferocity
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tantek
aaronpk ^^^ see adactio's edit - should we make a similar edit for Portland since you setup tito for Portland also?
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tommorris.org
edited /internationalization (+24) "fixing link to Basic Bilingual as Steph's site seems to be broken (a database error - [[database-antipattern]]?)"
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GWG
pfefferle: I've been thinking about yesterday's discussion.
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tommorris.org
edited /internationalization (+263) "/* Solutions */ adding pointer to Django and GNU Gettext"
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tantek
tommorris: is there an approach to /i18n that you use in Ferocity?
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tommorris
tantek: I'm building ferocity2 (which I'm hoping to open source) and am using Django and gettext
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tantek
tommorris++
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Loqi
tommorris has 82 karma
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Zegnat
Haven’t looked yet, but might as well ask now that we are on the topic, is there a recommended way of linking translations of posts/notes together?
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tantek
Zegnat - HTML has hreflang="" and rel="alternate"
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tantek
on a page to page granularity
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tommorris
beta posting UI in pt-BR: http://cl.ly/image/3o0i3V0w1g2F :)
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Zegnat
if rel="alternate" works on the page level it means I can’t include the translation links on feed pages? That sounds annoying. I will need to put some research in when I get back from my vacation
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tantek
Zegnat - you can include the translation links on the permalink pages
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tantek
for a feed page, you should use rel="alternate" hreflang=".." to link to the whole feed in a different language
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Zegnat
true, but I do not think I will be translating all my posts
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Zegnat
the blog system I am working on now will work with lang="" on a per-post level in the feed. So the feed is mixed-language. Just looking into how best to handle the case where I publish the same content in several languages (which will be the odd-post-out)
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tantek.com
edited /timeline (+96) "/* 2013 */ event W3C Workshop on Social Standards"
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csarven
tantek If I'm not mistaken, the first time in-reply-to was introduced to StatusNet was here https://github.com/csarven/statusnet/commit/46b1e2fcec9ff084496a4ac11a65c1673f92e1f0
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tantek
nice find!
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tantek
did statusnet consume rel=in-reply-to? or just publish?
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csarven
Publish. We didn't consume any mf to my knowledge.
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tantek.com
edited /timeline (+181) "/* 2009 */ first implementation to publish rel=in-reply-to"
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@AlexKKearney
Woo! Finished up a prototype UI. Now I can at least syndicate to twitter. #indieweb http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/6/23/woo-finis
(twitter.com/_/status/613327122996850688)
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csarven
Perhaps you already know, but StatusNet had a complete "read API" available through mf
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tantek.com
edited /timeline (+3) "/* 2009 */ '''"
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csarven
If we go with the date of the proposal in the wiki, it was 2008-10-03 on my site.
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tantek
do you remember if you experimented with coding it on your site before your proposal? or coded it after proposal?
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csarven
Definitely implemented before the wiki ;)
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csarven
ducks
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csarven
Not sure what the "process" is around here.. propose->implement or implement->propose or ..
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tantek
csarven: on the indieweb - there's a lot of experimentation on personal sites, before/after proposals, perhaps even without a proposal, just quietly
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csarven
Sounds good.
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tantek
usually it's less work to ask about it first, because someone else might know of an existing solution
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tantek
but people go experiment on their own anyway, and that's fine too
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csarven
I wonder how much of the current SN/GNU Social retained the mf
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csarven
Such is the "cost" of moving on from projects - all the work could just disappear overnight or someone else takes it further.
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MMN-o
csarven: I made some patches to microformats2
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MMN-o
for GNU social
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MMN-o
didn't bother to retain the old format
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MMN-o
csarven: and we use the PHP library for reading mf2, so we're backwards compatible on discovery.
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csarven
MMN-o++
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Loqi
MMN-o has 1 karma
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csarven
Awesome! Just spotted mf2 andHTML5 use.
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csarven
is delighted!
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MMN-o
csarven: Most people use the Qvitter plugin nowadays though, so client-side javascript logic is required to parse a lot of sites ;)
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MMN-o
Somewhat unfortunate, but it's mostly a pragmatic thing because people enjoy that interface more. Personally I prefer the old interface.
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csarven
I was just looking at one of the conversations, haven't spoted in-reply-to yet
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tantek
not even u-in-reply-to?
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csarven
I was just looking at this example: https://loadaverage.org/conversation/7003108 -- I don't know how much of the source differs across these instances
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MMN-o
csarven: I think I would've preserved it if I ran into it while migrating.
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MMN-o
csarven: So either it disappeared before GNU social or I should just put it back in.
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MMN-o
csarven: I'll have a look in the commit logs later, thanks!
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csarven
I designed/UXed up to 0.9 or something.. sometime 2010Q1?
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MMN-o
A lot of things were enterprisified in StatusNet 1.x
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MMN-o
Nevertheless, I'll put it back in when I get back into town and can sit down for a while :)
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csarven
quitter.se appears to use @data-in-reply-to-status-id
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csarven
That's a local id
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tantek
not a permalink then?
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csarven
No. Closed the tabs.. but it was 0-9+
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tantek
sorry no I meant quitter.se is using a local id no t a globa permalink in their reply-tos
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tantek
or asking
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csarven
Right.
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tantek.com
edited /timeline (+375) "2014 vouch concept, term, spec, implementations"
(view diff)
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tantek
re: wiki in 2014 - what other (besides /Vouch ) indieweb technologies / proposals happened in 2014?
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tantek.com
edited /2014-review (+220) "stub a 2014 Technologies section with Vouch, let's add more by analyzing 2014 IWC demo notes"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: i was testing out logstore
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ben_thatmustbeme
oops, nevermind, that was 2015
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ben_thatmustbeme
indieconfig?
Zegnat_, edpw, scoates and wolftune joined the channel
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snarfed
bridgy added most of its features in 2014
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Main_Page (-74) "update home page with link to ticket registration"
(view diff)
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snarfed
in other news bridgy is almost at 2k users! https://www.brid.gy/#stats says 1987 right now
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aaronpk
good morning
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 30 minutes ago: is there any way to get a list of wiki pages created in 2014? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-23/line/1435058686311
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aaronpk
tantek: i updated the home page to link to the ti.to registration page like brighton
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dym.cx
edited /Big_Boring_System (+198) "+ == Site death =="
(view diff)
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aaronpk
tantek: I have a list of all the pages created in 2014
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aaronpk
that includes file uploads
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aaronpk
and like 100 emoji pages :P
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tantek
I don't suppose we could stick that in a list somewhere like /2014-created ?
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tantek
with a line like this for each one
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aaronpk
what is 😍?
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tantek
saved by the double-redirect
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aaronpk
what order? date created or alpha?
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tantek
always with the hard questions
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aaronpk
I could include the date as well
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tantek
oh boy I know where this is going
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aaronpk
you do? cause i don't
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tantek
* <span class="h-entry"><time class="dt-published">YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS</time>: <span class="p-name">[[Vouch]]</span></span>
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tantek
and yes, since you mentioned included the date, let's do date order
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tantek.com
edited /2014-review (+83) "/* Technologies */ indie-config"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
created /2014/Brighton (+21) "r UK"
(view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
created /2014-created (+274459) "all pages created in 2014"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
omg that's a huge page
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aaronpk
oh no haha the images are inline
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ben_thatmustbeme
i blame loqi's X is Y function for that 2061 number
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Loqi
is done
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2014-created (+1800) "thumbnail images"
(view diff)
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tantek
now try it in a reader :)
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tantek
"Error creating thumbnail: libgomp: "
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aaronpk
some of the images are bad apparently
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tantek
ok that page is amazing
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aaronpk
should i exclude redirects?
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aaronpk
takes it down to 1164 actual pages
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ben_thatmustbeme
should run one of these every year
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aaronpk
582 pages created in 2013 (not including redirects)
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aaronpk
167 in 2012
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aaronpk
115 in 2011
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aaronpk
524 so far in 2015
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ben_thatmustbeme
524 and we are half way through the year... we need to pick up the pace if we want to beat 2014!
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, this is definitely helping see spam
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aaronpk
the redirects aren't super helpful to have in that list right?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't think so
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ben_thatmustbeme
other than seeing all the emoji abuse :P
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: the photo right next to the one you deleted is spam too
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aaronpk
i dont know where that was in the list, kyle linked to it
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ben_thatmustbeme
date is in the filename
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2014-created () "(-102597) remove redirects, add namespace for templates, add name of the file"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
WTF... i was about to split that page in to months so its easier to edit
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ben_thatmustbeme
but i can't edit the whole thing... it died half way through getting all the wikitext of it
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aaronpk
please don't. it's generated by a sql query and if it's edited i won't be able to batch update easily
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ben_thatmustbeme
group by month then?
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tantek_
aaronpk - maybe generate a header at the top that says auto-generated, please don't edit :)
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tantek_
ben_thatmustbeme - why are you trying to edit history? ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, was going to remove spam links
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ben_thatmustbeme
searching is easier by month
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tantek_
what spam links? thought we deleted all those
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tantek_
aaronpk - it's not showing deleted pages is it?
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aaronpk
no, it's querying the pages table and deleting actually removes it from there
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@gRegorLove
I dreamed I was at IndieWebCamp and there were over 100 attendees. I also saw Cher was leading a session, so now I don't know what to think.
(twitter.com/_/status/613378653490057216)
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gRegorLove
True story
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek_: we just found and removed 2 spam images that we found because of this page
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ben_thatmustbeme
just was going to put month headers to make it easier to get around that list
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@tedcurran
Is it possible to sync photos from phone to yr #wordpress blog’s media storage like you’d do to Dropbox or @googlephotos? #Indieweb #WP #API
(twitter.com/_/status/613379186401546240)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2014-created (+136) "please don't edit"
(view diff)
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@dreamb0t
RT @gRegorLove: I dreamed I was at IndieWebCamp and there were over 100 attendees. I also saw Cher was leading a session, so now I don't kn…
(twitter.com/_/status/613379322598920192)
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@adamprocter
annoying that the @tweetbot / new twitter quote format only works with Twitter Url shortener I use yourls to track mine #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/613379822086176768)
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@MissChristmann
How is data being used to improve our abilities as professionals?! #ownyourdata #ncns15 @rockECHSprin @EThompson_22
(twitter.com/_/status/613381466643415040)
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@rockECHSprin
RT @MissChristmann: How is data being used to improve our abilities as professionals?! #ownyourdata #ncns15 @rockECHSprin @EThompson_22
(twitter.com/_/status/613381706469519361)
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@MusicHackFest
Is it possible to sync photos from phone to yr #wordpress blog’s media storage like you’d do to Dropbox or googlephotos? #Indieweb #WP #API
(twitter.com/_/status/613382731490271232)
almereyda, wolftune, uhhyeahbret, csarven, snarfed, awolf, tvn, tantek, scoates, scoates_, j12t and dariusdunlap joined the channel
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tantek
aaronpk++ for /2014-created !
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Loqi
aaronpk has 860 karma
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tantek.com
edited /2014-review (+289) "link to 2014-created"
(view diff)
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gRegorLove
Should http://indiewebcamp.com/File:Known-logo.png be removed and hotlinked instead?
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aaronpk
i tried to do that to others
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tantek.com
edited /Main_Page (+0) "update next HWC date"
(view diff)
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nedorito
anyone have experience introducing children to the indie web?
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nedorito
middle school or high school age, how to build and maintain a personal website?
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rhiaro
nedorito: I've got a few started with html/css and ftp to my shared hosting over the last few months
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rhiaro
I also started setting up Known for my kid's programming club with the idea that I'd get them all on there, then gradually migrate them to their own indieweb sites... but didn't quite get everything set up
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rhiaro
We have a few who get a hard time at school cos they don't want to be on facebook and all of their friends are, so I'd really like to help them with alternatives. I just haven't had time to push it.
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tantek
!tell snarfed do you have a list of new Bridgy features in 2014? Even if it's just a list of closed github issues
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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nedorito
interesting rhiaro
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nedorito
did you follow a lesson plan when introducing them to html/css or sort of wing it then let them ask questions?
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tantek.com
edited /2014-review (+559) "/* Technologies */ add Services stub with Bridgy, and Applications"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Known (+85) "hotlink logo"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /2014-review (+198) "/* Community Resources */ 1000+ pages created"
(view diff)
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tantek
thanks aaronpk - that's a good start
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tantek
wow 325
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snarfed
eh that's mostly bugs
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Loqi
snarfed: tantek left you a message 9 minutes ago: do you have a list of new Bridgy features in 2014? Even if it's just a list of closed github issues http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-23/line/1435086863755
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aaronpk
do you use labels for features?
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aaronpk
can add that to the search
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snarfed
off the top of my head: publish, likes/reposts/rsvps, blog webmentions are the big ones
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tantek
like feature request?
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snarfed
aaronpk: no feature label, no
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tantek
publish itself was new in 2014?
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kylewm
Publish, Webmentions for Blogs, and humbly posse-post-discovery
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snarfed
true! sorry kylewm! ppd is a huge one
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tantek
aaronpk, do you have a list of what new Micropub clients were deployed in 2014?
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snarfed
yeah i may have announced publish at iwc sf
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kylewm
lol, snarfed, I missed that you already had a list
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rhiaro
nedorito: started them on codeacademy, showed them how to do it in a text editor once they'd got the basics. There are a couple dozen kids all working on different things, so it's not easy to do structured kinds of lessons or anything. They all sort themselves out, mentors lurk to help out
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gregorlove.com
edited /Known-fr (+86) "l'image hotlink"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
oh dear ^
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@MissChristmann
I work for the best school. Presentation 1 of 3! #griffinpride #NCNS15 #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/MissChristmann/status/613434122841755648/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/613434122841755648)
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Zegnat
That “FacebookFarewellParty” isn’t even announced on the ind.ie blog? So much for keeping your information independent
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kylewm
it's a distributed party
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Zegnat
what is a distributed party?
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Zegnat
could you wikify that for me kylewm? ;)
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kylewm
sorry, it was a bad joke :)
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kylewm
a distributed party looks a lot like hanging out by yourself
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@Mr_Agerston
RT @MissChristmann: I work for the best school. Presentation 1 of 3! #griffinpride #NCNS15 #ownyourdata https://twitter.com/MissChristmann/status/613434122841755648/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/613437272373989376)
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tantek
reads logs
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tantek
snarfed, by "likes/reposts/rsvps" do you mean those were new to Bridgy backfeed in 2014?
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snarfed
tantek: yes…except i was mistaken, likes and reposts at least were 2013. https://snarfed.org/2013-12-23_bridgy-now-with-likes-and-retweets
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tantek
so RSVPs were in 2014 then?
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aaronpk
hmm i wonder how i'd find a list of new micropub clients
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snarfed
heh, this is fun nostalgia. the initial task breakdown for bridgy publish was…big. :P https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/10#issuecomment-34987602
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@kresin
RT @kartik_prabhu: @kresin to be clear indiewebcamp != ind.ie see: https://indiewebcamp.com/ind.ie#ind.ie_is_not_IndieWeb_nor_IndieWebCamp that wiki page is purely for documentation (http…
(twitter.com/_/status/613442082934509568)
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KartikPrabhu
oh ok ^ :P
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tantek
aaronpk - history of the /Micropub page ?
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aaronpk
there are dates there already!
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KartikPrabhu
<sigh> should de-dup backfeed after changing article permalinks!
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tantek
aaronpk - with a diff between Jan/dec 2014?
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kylewm.com
edited /ind.ie (+122) "/* Criticism */ replace broken link with archive.org"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
nah just looking at the list of implementations, they all say when they started
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aaronpk
most are from 2014
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tantek
kylewm: did you blog about the implementatin of Bridgy Blog Webmentions?
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aaronpk
the Known plugin was also 2014
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aaronpk
oh i was looking at servers
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tantek
right
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kylewm
tantek, no that was all snarfed
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tantek
maybe I'm confused
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tantek.com
edited /2014-review (+427) "/* Services */ more Bridgy details"
(view diff)
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tantek
thanks kylewm - cited!
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tantek
hmm - that history diff attempt didn't work
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tantek
aaronpk - maybe the opposite questions are easier
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tantek
what micropub clients were there in 2013?
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tantek
and what new micropub clients happened in 2015?
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@seahawkwooten
#ownyourdata is important because teachers and students need to understand the importance of scores #NCSC15
(twitter.com/_/status/613448170673188864)
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@seahawkwooten
#common core and #ACT are important across curriculums. Everyone can participate #ownyourdata at #NCSC15
(twitter.com/_/status/613448473254494208)
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snarfed.org
edited /2014-review (+140) "/* Services */"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
good idea
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@seahawkwooten
"We all need to speak the same language when it comes to student data." #ownyourdata at #NCNS15 ...loving it
(twitter.com/_/status/613449360014221312)
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aaronpk
the client section wasn't there in 2013
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aaronpk
were there actually any micropub implementations before 2014? i'm kind of thinking maybe not
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aaronpk
my endpoint didn't even exist until march
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aaronpk
and most of the spec was writting in september and december 2013
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@seahawkwooten
When students own their data, learning occurs. The Atlas Protocol helps students to disaggregate data. #ownyourdata at #NCSC15
(twitter.com/_/status/613450417024933889)
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tantek
aaronpk - a-ha! that's notable
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tantek
so micropub was conceived in 2013, yet first implemented in 2014!
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tantek
so that's a pretty big deal
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aaronpk
i think so!
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tantek
I'm going to count that as new deployed tech in 2014 then
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aaronpk
yep i think that's safe
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tantek
we should document more about micropub in /timeline
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tantek
do you remember when you conceived it? and named it?
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Loqi
I agree
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tantek
(in 2013? is the start of the wiki page good enough?)
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aaronpk
yeah, pretty much started right with the wiki page
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aaronpk
i could probably tell you the date I named it
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tantek
yes I'd like to capture that
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aaronpk
Sep 22 2013
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aaronpk
I renamed the page from "Posts API" to "micropub"
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tantek.com
edited /2014-review (+141) "micropub first implemented / interop in 2014"
(view diff)
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snarfed
tantek this is for you
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snarfed
i just reviewed a change at work that included `command = "yes | %s --in %s --ann %s --unann %s" % …`
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snarfed
and then we realized we needed to replace the `yes` with `yes yes`
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snarfed
and then i posted http://www.yesandyesyes.com/ and we all laughed for a solid few minutes
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snarfed
unix++
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Loqi
unix has 3 karma
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tantek
snarfed - heh that's amazing
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aaronpk
oh Known ships with the micropub plugin by default now?
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tantek.com
edited /2014-review (+162) "6 micropub server implementations, link to each sets as of 2014"
(view diff)
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KevinMarks_
yes, that was announced at homebrew last week: http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-06-17.html#micropub
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tantek.com
edited /2014-review (+18) "/* Technologies */ bold"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 206 karma
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KevinMarks_
which is a good default - it took me ages to find it
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: can you upload a screenshot of mobilepub? http://indiewebcamp.com/MobilePub
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KevinMarks_
reading https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/532b1868541b3df9a412 there is a potential problme of knowing what properties should be html, and which should be URLs etc
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aaronpk
a problem?
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KevinMarks_
you end up having to sniff the property contents to decide if it's a p- an e- or a u-
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aaronpk
I think it's fine, because the type of value of the properties is determined by the vocabulart
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aaronpk
s/art/ary
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Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: I think it's fine, because the type of value of the properties is determined by the vocabulary
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KevinMarks_
or would you post "content":[{"html":"blah","value":"blah"}]
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aaronpk
right now you just post "content":"blah" in whatever internal raw text type you want. some people prefer to write in markdown for examples
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KevinMarks_
well, yes, but then you have mf1 style magic vocabulary knowledge
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aaronpk
but we still have that in mf2
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aaronpk
e.g. the "photo" property has special meaning in the context of an h-entry
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KevinMarks_
right, and you have to know that it should be a url
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aaronpk
yeah, that seems to be working so far
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aaronpk
it's just the parsing step of mf2 that is vocabulary agnostic
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aaronpk
something somewhere needs to be aware of vocabulary
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KevinMarks_
your rich editor in quill posts html in content?
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KevinMarks_
so for json format you'd just post that in content, not in the nested parsed form?
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aaronpk
yeah right now that seems to work fine
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KevinMarks_
it seems to work, yes, across known and silo.pub too
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aaronpk
i implemented the draft in that gist, and now my micropub endpoint is completely unaware of vocabulary and it's kind of neat
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aaronpk
oh, not *completely* actually, it does know that "published" is a date
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aaronpk
but that's it. other than that it just fiddles with the values of things, storing in a mf2 data structure on disk
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kylewm
KevinMarks_: you can do {{ value | safe }} instead of turning autoescape off seletively
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kylewm
(assuming i'm looking at jinja2)
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aaronpk
my other thought for specifying the content type of fields is to use multipart requests similar to file uploads
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aaronpk
since when uploading a file, you already put the content type in the multipart header
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aaronpk
if you wanted to post HTML, you'd upload an html file
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aaronpk
and if the field was called "content" it would be uploading the article text
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KevinMarks_
but you need a template to turn the mf2 json into html, no?
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aaronpk
well it wouldn't really work with the JSON version
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KevinMarks_
or you're sating that isn't the micropub endpoints job, but the blog
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KevinMarks_
s/sating/saying/
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Loqi
KevinMarks_ meant to say: or you're saying that isn't the micropub endpoints job, but the blog
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aaronpk
cause json can't be split up into multipart the way a simple key/value encoding like form-encoding can
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GWG
Evening
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KevinMarks_
otoh you coudl do the {"html":"<b>blah</b>","value":"blah"} thing mf2 does
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aaronpk
that might be good enough
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aaronpk
that means clients would also have to generate a plaintext version if they want to send html?
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KevinMarks_
that implies extensibility to "markdown" or "mediawiki" or whatever
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aaronpk
and servers would be able to always rely on "value" as plaintext being there, and might understand the other content type in the object/
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KevinMarks_
there is the nested h- thingy case too
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aaronpk
nested h- thingies need to be sent as their own request and referenced by URL
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KevinMarks_
but if you can post html you can post arbitrarily nested ones
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aaronpk
but that would just be posted as html so the server wouldn't care
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor
bonjour je cherche un canal francais merci
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indie-visitor
ouishare et consommation collaboratives
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KevinMarks_
un canal francais de parler "indieweb"
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indie-visitor
translation
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indie-visitor
Hello I look for a French channel(canal) thank you
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indie-visitor
Great thank you very much
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GWG
KevinMarks_: You speak French?
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KevinMarks_
a bit - I did 5 years in school and a lot of summer holidays in france, so I can get by in french
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GWG
KevinMarks_: Interesting
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KevinMarks_
to actually speak and understand it takes a while to get up to speed, adn I haven't spent much time there since 1998
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GWG
I took 4.5 years of Spanish, but never used it outside the classroom.
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indie-visitor
yes i speak french
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GWG
Do we have a spanish wiki?
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KevinMarks_
that makes all the difference, having to use it
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indie-visitor
oups
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aaronpk
whoa I did not know about that
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GWG
We do. Good to know
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KevinMarks_
they're linked from the homepage
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GWG
Someone did Catalan? Hmmm
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aaronpk
you know, the {"html":"<b>foo</b>","value":"foo"} thing makes total sense now that i think about it... because in this JSON form, the micropub request to create things is really just sending a JSON version of the parsed mf2 json
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KevinMarks_
right, I was extending your draft
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KevinMarks_
indie-visitor: do you have a personal website?
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KevinMarks_
for events
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aaronpk
ideally the location property would be a URL
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aaronpk
because you don't want to create the location every time
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aaronpk
oops no, needs to be an array
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KevinMarks_
you should document the 'passing html as text' convention too, as that is what actually works
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Loqi
definitely
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KevinMarks_
though I think you need more escaping in the form encoding?
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aaronpk
probably
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KevinMarks_
<b>hello+moon<%2Fb>
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KevinMarks_
is what I get with my unmung form
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KevinMarks_
hm, no the < was chrome displaying in the url bar
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aaronpk
question: would it be interesting to include background on how micropub syntax is derived in this talk?
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csarven
Is the sourcecode for h2vx up somewhere? http://h2vx.com/vcf/csarven.ca is giving me no vcard love
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GWG
aaronpk: When is the talk again?
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aaronpk
Tomorrow
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GWG
aaronpk: I guess I should have recorded that intro for you?
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aaronpk
oh yeah haha
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aaronpk
forgot about that
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tantek
csarven: yes on github
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GWG
Maybe for the next IWC.
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tantek
see microformats.org/wiki/h2vx for a link
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GWG
Before Squarespace sues us
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csarven
tantek Thanks
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tantek
csarven that being said - h2vx (and the core code, X2V) needs updating to support microformats2
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gRegorLove
tantek: I've actually started taking a shot at updating that
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gRegorLove
I was thinking it would be more like barnabywalters MF2 cleaner functions, so you could include php-mf2 and the updated h2vx helper functions, so it could be used more generally (I wanted to include it in some work projects)
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csarven
tantek That's likely the case. I thought maybe it tripped over something else.