#indieweb

2015-07-12

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seekr
arggggh - seems the ~600 MB MPEG video file I captured from bret's uToob stream from Portland runs only just over an hour :(
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Loqi
aww, cheer up
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seekr
I guess it ran up until the lunch break (thanks, Loqi) - if there was a later stream, I missed it, being tired from trying (but failing) to connect with what happened in Brighton (which I'm fool enough to try again today - hoping they use a better streaming method than they did yesterday with Talky)
#
seekr
Is there a list of presenters for yesterday's sessions? I was hoping the grid (or pointers therefrom) might have that info
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KartikPrabhu
seekr: indiewebcamps don't really have "presenters" it is more of a discussion type meet
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KartikPrabhu
successfully convert h-entry to Atom format now onto feeds
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@tinokremer
"Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar." http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb (twtr.io/11Y4nKuCwPU)
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petermolnar
presenters are the ones who did the self introduction in this case
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seekr
Well, KartikPrabhu, what I saw in the video stream bret did yesterday showed what looked to me like brief presentations followed by even briefer Q&As.
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KartikPrabhu
oh i see you mean the first-day demos
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seekr
I'd just like a list of the names of those who spoke and links to their sites.
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seekr
Since today's sessions appear to be working ones, I guess there's not much for the virtual audience to see - except maybe after they're finished hacking.
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KartikPrabhu
seekr: yes I understand. somehow that has not been asked for before
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seekr
seems strange, dunnit? :)
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KartikPrabhu
seekr: yes there will be demos of what people hacked on in the end
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seekr
I think it's reasonable to want to learn more about what these various people are up to, and to get easy ways to connect with them and their efforts.
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KartikPrabhu
seekr: as an example (and to toot my own horn) I demo-ed this https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/marginalia at the end of last year's IWC
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seekr
Thanks, KartikPrabhu - I'll take a look.
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seekr
It's a very interesting concept, your marginalia capturing & sharing system, whether for collaborative or purely personal efforts. Do you feel it's working well now? I'm wondering what building blocks you used, or whether it's more of a "ground up" effort.
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KartikPrabhu
seekr: the building blocks are mentioned in that post :)
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KartikPrabhu
it is mostly building on some things invented here at by people
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seekr
ah - my quick skim missed that part, I guess - still reading, tho :)
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KartikPrabhu
it bootstraps webmention and fragmention to make marginalia
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KartikPrabhu
it works reasonably well now, but I am not very happy with the actual JS code. It needs some fixing
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KartikPrabhu
what is webmention?
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Loqi
Webmention is a simple way to notify any URL when you link to it on your site https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention
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KartikPrabhu
what is fragmention?
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Loqi
A fragmention is an extension to URL syntax that links and cites a phrase within a document by using a URL fragment consisting of the phrase itself, including whitespace https://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention
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seekr
thanks! as an utter newbie, I'm still learning the lingo ;)
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KartikPrabhu
that is why Loqi is the best :)
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seekr
I'm thinking that this sort of system could be very useful with regard to a project I'm woking on now.
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seekr
Yeah - Loqi sought to cheer me up a while ago - a real pal! :)
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KartikPrabhu
nice! let me know if you need help with using it
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seekr
ok - the main idea is that this sort of system might be better than and/or a useful adjunct to a web-based forum for commenting on and considering what is said during the course of radio interviews done by the organisation whose site I've been working on - they're a fairly backward lot technically (with the exception of one person who retired from her job at a university as a web developer (mostly in Java, I think))
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KartikPrabhu
I am not a big fan of forums personally. But marginalia.js is supposed to help comment on specific points
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seekr
My immediate struggle involves pulling them out of the clutches of social media operations like Facebook (which I tend to consider to be evil) and Twitter (which seems more benign) for such purposes.
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KartikPrabhu
the first step would be to get webmention working though
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KartikPrabhu
yes having your own site does help to do that part
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seekr
yeah - I'm thinking it would be the logical first step - only some of the shows have transcripts, which would be the obvious base for linking comments - those transcripts are represented as components within XML files, so it shouldn't be all that difficult to create some other form of document to serve as the anchor point for the comments bit
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KartikPrabhu
needs to update h-feed templates to get a good Atom
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seekr
I can install webmention on my own site and play with it.
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KartikPrabhu
XML seems pretty annoying to me, I would rather do HTML
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KartikPrabhu
seekr: yes good first step. helps you experiment
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seekr
Well, it's apples & oranges - they operate in different spaces, and are each well suited for the job they do.
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seekr
XML provides a data container, which is not possible in HTML.
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seekr
In fact, the XML files are used as the basis for creating HTML pages.
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seekr
Various items in the XML files are used for various purposes in the generation process.
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seekr
But it would be possible to write a simple script to extract from transcript-bearing XML files whatever is needed to generate documents suitable for use with your software.
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seekr
In fact, that process could proceed at the same time that pages for the site are being generated.
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seekr
That functionality could be incorporated into the page-generation process, in other words.
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seekr
If you have the time and interest, I can show you what I mean, KartikPrabhu - via PM.
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KartikPrabhu
seekr: though I have interest I would definitely be lacking time. I am not actually a web-dev so catching up on other projects is pretty time-consuming for me
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seekr
understood - is your code open sourced or what?
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seekr
I wouldn't seek to involve you in any actual work, KartikPrabhu - only show you what I mean - but I can understand how you might want to know at this point. Certainly if your system were to be used, you'd be given appropriate credit and links.
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seekr
*you might NOT want to kjnow, that is :)
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KartikPrabhu
marginalia.js is open-source https://github.com/kartikprabhu/marginalia though admittedly it is pretty hacky code at the moment
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seekr
The more important question, KartikPrabhu, is whether it's stable and non-buggy. :)
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KartikPrabhu
that it is, I think :P I have been using it on my site for a year without a glitch
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KartikPrabhu
but to reiterate the MIT license on the code "WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER
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seekr
great! I'm looking forward to taking a closer look and to playing with it. I'm very glad I ran into you when I did, as this could be a very important component in my struggle.
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seekr
yeah - standard eula stuff
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KartikPrabhu
excelsior!
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seekr
Ever seen the Rocky & Bullwinkle "Excelsior" cartoon skit? :)
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seekr
KartikPrabhu: https://youtu.be/MDYeav3nQEg
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KartikPrabhu
well now I wil :)
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seekr
:)
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seekr
The humour in that clip relies on "Stuffing material (as for furniture and mattresses) made of slender, curled wood shavings, as a substitute for hair. " from https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/excelsior
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seekr
whereas, I realise, KartikPrabhu, yours relies on the primary original definition, from the Latin: "Loftier, yet higher; ever upward"
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KartikPrabhu
of course :)
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seekr
I wish you all the best in your further development efforts, and will eagerly track your progress!
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seekr
(and happily serve as a beta-tester, KartikPrabhu :) )
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KartikPrabhu
thanks!
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@benjaminparry
[ ] IndieMark [ ] Microformats [ ] GitHub Pages > Self-host [ ] Webmentions [ ] Micropub [ ] POSSE Let's do this! @IndieWebCampUK 2015 (twtr.io/11YBSzq0yjG)
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@IndieWebCampUK
RT @benjaminparry: [ ] IndieMark [ ] Microformats [ ] GitHub Pages > Self-host [ ] Webmentions [ ] Micropub [ ] POSSE Let's do this! @Indi… (twtr.io/11YBW7MAHAQ)
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@benjaminparry
@linuxluvr ~ There's notes from the discussions at the bottom of this page http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Brighton or try the wiki on the same site. (twtr.io/11YCFsJ9Vt4)
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petermolnar
would anyone be up to implement a dkim-like signature header to webmentions today?
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Rhiaro.co.uk * uploaded "[[File:group.jpg]]": IWC Brighton 2015
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Brighton (+44) "Photo" (view diff)
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@IndieWebCampUK
#IndieWebCamp Brighton participants just starting to arrive for day two! And the photo from yesterday: https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampUK/status/620152756460982272/photo/1 (twtr.io/11YDkowoF4Y)
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hardfire
on the news, i just started indifying my website, made it indieauth compatible. next steps is to look for a cheap and less-maintenance solution for POSSE and webmentions. \m/
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petermolnar
hardfire have you checked withknown.com ? you can't really get an easier solution
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hardfire
checks withknown
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tommorris
Known is pretty nice. They also have an IRC channel: #knownchat
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Loqi
tommorris: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 6 hours, 14 minutes ago: h-as- has been getting removed form AS2 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-11/line/1436669786237
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hardfire
does look pretty nice and quick solution. will give it a shot and udpate how it goes. Still thinking if i should use the SAAS version or just get a hosting and host it there.
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petermolnar
setting up known for a self-hosting environment used to be a bit tricky, especially that is like mongo better than mysql
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petermolnar
is the talky session supposed to be running?
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rhiaro
petermolnar: we're just sitting around all over the place, nowhere really obvious to point a acmera
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petermolnar
fair enough
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rhiaro
Stream will be back on for demos
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rhiaro
at 4
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petermolnar
anything interesting going on beside the sitting around?
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rhiaro
Quiet mumbling
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rhiaro
Rain
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rhiaro
Biscuits
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seekr
any chance of doing a uToobish stream, like bret did yesterday from Portland?
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rhiaro
I'll try something different fro the demos later, seekr
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petermolnar
rhiaro you've just summarized the United Kingdom :D
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seekr
great! - thanks, rhiaro
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rhiaro
petermolnar: haha, good point
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Loqi
nice
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seekr
little local humour there, I reckons :)
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petermolnar
seekr where in the world are you located?
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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tommorris
is trying out known.
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tommorris
https://tommorris.withknown.com/ ;-)
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@glennjones
Cannot make in for hacking day of @indiewebcamp brighton. Hope it goes well, would love to see a video of demos at the end of the day! (twtr.io/11YKaMtmAR4)
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@adactio
@glennjones @indiewebcamp Aw, shame you can’t make it. We’ll definitely be live-streaming the demos. (twtr.io/11YKdjiQ9t4)
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@lewisnyman
I had a great time learning and chatting at @indiewebcamp yesterday. I'm missing out on the hack day but family calls https://twitter.com/lewisnyman/status/620174708819013632/photo/1 (twtr.io/11YMbKraS0Y)
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JohnEllison
Does anyone know how to add themselves as a user to the IndieWebCamp website? Such as https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Mowens.com
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KartikPrabhu
JohnEllison: you need to log in using IndieAuth
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JohnEllison
I have logged in with IndieAuth
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KartikPrabhu
aah ok Let me look for how to make a User page then :P
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KartikPrabhu
do you have a url in mind?
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KartikPrabhu
like Johnellison.com ?
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JohnEllison
john-ellison.com would work fine
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KartikPrabhu
https://indiewebcamp.com/User:John-ellison.com
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KartikPrabhu
go there are clikc "Create"
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KartikPrabhu
you can use mine as a template: https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kartikprabhu.com
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JohnEllison
Cheers Kartik. Thanks. Also, I've downloaded a local IRC client, can I use this same username on that client?
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KartikPrabhu
I think so. though IRC does not like if there are 2 user with the same name around
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KartikPrabhu
a good thing to do is use the same username with an underscore after it
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KartikPrabhu
that way Loqi, our resident bot recognises them as the same
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JohnEllison
Sounds good. Cheers.
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KartikPrabhu
neat! :)
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snarfed
morning Brighton!
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rhiaro
on behalf of Brighton, morning snarfed!
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snarfed
lol thanks
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snarfed
PSA for anyone hacking on anything today that integrates with silos (ie social networks): granary is a REST API and python lib that talks microformats2 (among other formats) to the silos
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snarfed
https://github.com/snarfed/granary , https://granary-demo.appspot.com/
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: more like "time to sleep" Chicago ;)
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 99 karma
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snarfed
(it used to be called activitystreams-unofficial. also, it powers http://brid.gy/ )
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snarfed
happy hacking!
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KartikPrabhu
almost to a 100 karma internetz points!
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john-ellison.com
created /User:John-ellison.com (+985) "Created page with "<div class="h-card"> <h1>[http://john-ellison.com John Ellison]</h1> <img style="float: right; padding: 0.25em; border:1px solid #eee;" src="http://www.john-ellison.com/images/jo..."" (view diff)
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rhiaro
snarfed++
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rhiaro
granary++
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Loqi
snarfed has 112 karma
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Loqi
granary has 3 karma
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KartikPrabhu
JohnEllison_: awesome design on your site
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JohnEllison_
Hey thanks Kartik. I appreciate that a lot. Just constantly trying to learn and improve.
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh (+51) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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petermolnar
tommorris yesterday we talked about hashcash for webmentions; I would still rather go for something similar to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DomainKeys_Identified_Mail
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petermolnar
also, I haven't spotted before, but there is an entry for ephemeral webmention endpoints on the wiki
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petermolnar
for protection factor
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john-ellison.com
edited /User:John-ellison.com (-1) (view diff)
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paultibbetts.uk
edited /2015/Brighton (+470) "/* Participating */ added Paul Tibbetts and Hesam Bahrami" (view diff)
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john-ellison.com
edited /projects (+841) "/* Ghost */" (view diff)
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tommorris
petermolnar: DKIM looks... complex. any chance you could set up webmentions brainstorming on the wiki and suggest some idea of how it would work? I'm happy to chuck in how you'd do it with Hashcash
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petermolnar
it is a bit complex :/
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petermolnar
( even for me, but I've done it for mail once already )
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petermolnar
especially that you need to fiddle with the DNS record
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tommorris
because hashcash is pretty easy
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tvn
Has anyone tried to install Known locally (today in Brighton)?
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tommorris
petermolnar: like `./hashcash -mb24 "https://petermolnar.eu/blips/werk-photos-of-blade-runner-models"`
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tommorris
you then get back "hashcash stamp: 1:24:150712:https://tommorris.org/posts/9347::Lp0ppVc1LcrFx9ZP:00000000000000000000000000000Q+yD"
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petermolnar
I did, a while ago, when it was beta ( and I'm not in Brighton :( )
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Anonymous111
How is the mini-conference going?
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petermolnar
that's definitely easier
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tommorris
then you just send &hashcash=[bla] with your webmention
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tommorris
if you aren't using hashcash, you ignore it
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tommorris
and if you are, you validate it
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@iamjohnellison
Hacking away at #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/iamjohnellison/status/620186719317532672/photo/1 (twtr.io/11YRtkTaEcs)
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petermolnar
... or you drop the webmention if it comes without a hashcash :)
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tommorris
or stick it in a moderation queue
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tommorris
then you could do something like publish your hashcash minimum bit level in your site
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petermolnar
oh: http://www.prodevtips.com/2008/02/04/wp-hashcash/
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petermolnar
( yes, I know, WordPress, shame on me )
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tommorris
<meta name="webmention-hashcash" content="24" />
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@IndieWebCampUK
RT @iamjohnellison: Hacking away at #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/iamjohnellison/status/620186719317532672/photo/1 (twtr.io/11YS5fu9LVs)
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@IndieWebCampUK
RT @rhiaro: Yo dawg I heard you like #indiewebcamp http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/yo-dawg-heard (twtr.io/11YS8wCJtWf)
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tommorris
hashing a 24-bit hashcash for a URL takes about 5 seconds on my MacBook Pro
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tommorris
about 2 seconds for a 23-bit one
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@IndieWebCampUK
RT @calum_ryan: #indiewebcamp live blog http://calumryan.com/blog/indiewebcamp1/ (bear with me catching up!) (twtr.io/11YSHAm2kgL)
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petermolnar
I don't know what is considered fine in this case; how does a small vps appliance compare to a macbook pro in cpu?
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell seekr did I say there was only audio from the talky feed??
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme
kinda sped things up, but i think i am up to date
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: how goes Brighton?
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rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: Pretty chill
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rhiaro
Everyone is heads down, typey typey
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rhiaro
It's raining, so nobody wants to go out to the beach, which helps :)
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petermolnar
anyone needs help with https?
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rhiaro
I *think* most people came back, but there are fewer for sure
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rhiaro
I'll ask petermolnar
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ben_thatmustbeme
what are people working on?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "people working on" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=people+working+on&summary=prompted+by+ben_thatmustbeme+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-12%2Fline%2F1436699573658
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petermolnar
thank you rhiaro
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rhiaro
There are a fair few people starting from scratch
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ShaneHudson_
I just woke up (oops lol) but working on my android app for sharing a reply url to quill
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Loqi
ShaneHudson_: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 8 hours, 16 minutes ago: i was trying to get the share intent working for mobilepub but it was having problems getting the data http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-11/line/1436669849862
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rhiaro
oh, nice ShaneHudson, I'd use that!
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ShaneHudson_
ben_thatmustbeme Which issues were you having?
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rhiaro
I'm working on displaying incoming webmentions
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ben_thatmustbeme
ShaneHudson_: mobilepub uses apache cordova, i could get the app to launch from the share menu but it never got any data
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ShaneHudson_
Oh I see
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ben_thatmustbeme
and there are like 5 plugins for it and all seemed to be out of date
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ShaneHudson_
1 second, that's exactly the bit I'm about to test
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ben_thatmustbeme
but its a starting point if you didn't want to go in to full app dev
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Loqi
!calc 1 second, that's exactly the bit I'm about to test
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rhiaro
petermolnar: I let everyone know you're waiting and willing to help :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
ah, nevermind then
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ben_thatmustbeme
just realized he sends a salmention for EVERY mention he gets, including likes and mentions
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmmm thats not idea
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ben_thatmustbeme
l
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ShaneHudson_
Right so I get output in the form of "Take a look at @britishminiclub's Tweet: https://twitter.com/britishminiclub/status/620026068758564864?s=09"
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@britishminiclub
The British Mini Club Daily is out! http://paper.li/britishminiclub?edition_id=7226ddd0-282c-11e5-bf03-0cc47a0d1609 Stories via @martin_oxley @RichardMylan (twtr.io/11XUWTX7Rnj)
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ShaneHudson_
So need to parse that to get the url only and should be fine I think :)
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ShaneHudson_
Then I will probably need to send a PR to Quill to accept reply url
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joskar
petermolnar: (re hashcash on small vps) I just tested, and 24-bit took between 2 and 14s on a small vps but 5-34s on an small ARM server.
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ben_thatmustbeme
ShaneHudson_: perhaps pass as ?url= and then try to make it a general thing
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joskar
(Small sample size though)
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ben_thatmustbeme
configure what site you want to direct to
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petermolnar
5-34s is a bit to much imho
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petermolnar
thank you joskar
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ShaneHudson_
ben_thatmustbeme: Yeah that is step 2... I have never done android dev before lol So settings page can come after functionality :)
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joskar
petermolnar: I agree, for 23-bits the values were 2-21s for the ARM server. (mostly around 9s it seems)
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tommorris
joskar: for what level?
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hotzeplotz
bear or aaronpk: hacking on indie-stats at iwc brighton - any of your around and able to help me get started? having issues logging in (either on indie-stats.com or my test instance) once authenticated by indieauth.com
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hotzeplotz
looks like scope is empty and indie-stats.py just displays 'authentication failed' with 403
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joskar
tommorris: 5-34s for -mb24 and 2-21s for -mb23 on the ARM device. Was that what you were asking about?
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tommorris
I'll stick all this in webmention brainstorming
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@benjaminparry
[ ] IndieMark [x] Microformats [ ] GitHub Pages > Self-host [ ] Webmentions [ ] Micropub [ ] POSSE #IndieWebCampUK (twtr.io/11YUom82QVs)
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@IndieWebCampUK
RT @benjaminparry: [ ] IndieMark [x] Microformats [ ] GitHub Pages > Self-host [ ] Webmentions [ ] Micropub [ ] POSSE #IndieWebCampUK (twtr.io/11YVymudJTC)
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@hotzeplotz
@benjaminparry IndieMark (partly) outsourced to #lazyweb: http://indiewebcamp.com/indie-stats - adding features to this instead! #IndieWebCampUK (twtr.io/11YW6iWz_kL)
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@CodebarBrighton
Some codebar Brighton students and mentors are having a great time building on our personal websites at @indiewebcamp today :D (twtr.io/11YWvLutcCZ)
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tommorris.org
edited /Webmention (+1129) "/* proof-of-work */ hashcash" (view diff)
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tommorris
joskar, petermolnar: https://gist.github.com/tommorris/d57178fd02ee991e8c08
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ShaneHudson_
How do we go about recomending micropub clients to implement a ?url= for in reply to?
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@benjaminparry
[-] IndieMark (~0.8) [x] Microformats [ ] GitHub Pages > Self-host [ ] Webmentions [ ] Micropub [ ] POSSE #IndieWebCampUK (twtr.io/11YXiKB9KrU)
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ShaneHudson_
App is working very nicely :) No settings yet but it feels almost native, I close the app as soon as possible once the web browser opens :)
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tommorris
rhiaro: I hear mention through the grapevine of fish'n'chips
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ShaneHudson_
aaronpk: Are you around? If so I would love feedback on this issue https://github.com/aaronpk/Quill/issues/17 otherwise I will go ahead and implement anyway hah
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ben_thatmustbeme
ShaneHudson_: convention... maybe put it in the micropub brainstorming
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ShaneHudson_
ben_thatmustbeme: Ah you are already using ?url= for something slightly different ha
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@hotzeplotz
#indiewebcamp switch own site to https: done (twtr.io/11Y_0BhFhDL)
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mey.vn
created /User:Mey.vn (+19) "Created page with "see https://mey.vn/"" (view diff)
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joskar
tommorris: I've updated with the devices I can currently test on.
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mey.vn
edited /IRC_People (+109) "/* add self */" (view diff)
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@paulrobertlloyd
I’m at #indiewebcamp, playing with Webmentions. Help me test my (in progress) implementation… https://paulrobertlloyd.com/2015/07/webmentions (twtr.io/11YaNh7GMyQ)
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tommorris
joskar: cheers
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@ThatEmil
Was hoping to work on getting Webmention for my blog today. But after writing blog post, editing book, cleaning apartment I think I’m out. (twtr.io/11Yac_1s5yQ)
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lewisnyman
I implemented webmentions on my jekyll site :) https://github.com/lewisnyman/lewisnyman.co.uk-source/issues/12
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lewisnyman
I still have to actually display them... but at least I have it working end to end
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lewisnyman
Lunch time!
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Loqi
[mention] https://paulrobertlloyd.com/2015/07/webmentions linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Brighton (webmention)
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Loqi
[mention] https://paulrobertlloyd.com/2015/07/webmentions linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention (webmention)
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@danalocoder
RT @kevinmarks: “Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb http:… (twtr.io/11YdneCakqw)
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@paulrobertlloyd
@jaygreasley BOOM! https://paulrobertlloyd.com/2015/07/webmentions#webmentions (Thanks!) (twtr.io/11Ye5vrhdMs)
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Loqi
[bridgy] Roy Scholten favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/indiemark (https://twitter.com/tvnweb/status/619858175374790656)
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Loqi
[bridgy] just a guy replied '@tvnweb Be cool if you could encourage people to take notes - links to etherpads on schedule indiewebcamp.com/2015/Brighton#… :)' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/indiemark (https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/619859901536436224)
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Loqi
[bridgy] John Ellison favorited a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/indiemark (https://twitter.com/tvnweb/status/619858175374790656)
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@kirilind
Adding microformats to @ouisharelabs website in @IndieWebCampUK - verify http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-card/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flabs.ouishare.net%2F https://stream.ouisharelabs.net/s/33KK3 (twtr.io/11YgKzzG62f)
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@paulrobertlloyd
Next problem: how to include avatars from webmention posts without downloading high-resolution images!? #indiewebcamp (twtr.io/11YgocjFKtb)
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tommorris
it's that time when I need to refer to the HTML5 spec
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@benjaminparry
Testing WebMentions (http://benjamin.parry.is/writing/testing-webmentions/) (twtr.io/11Yh8qEhT3U)
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tommorris
I'm working out some linting rules for microformats2. feel free to add to them. http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-linting
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tommorris
at some point, mf2py may evolve to do linting/validation too. ;-)
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barnabywalters
!tell aaronpk I see you tagged v0.2.10 of php-mf2 on the 10th — thanks for merging those pull requests! In future can you let me know if you want to to tag a new version so that I can add to the changelog and sign the commit? I’m currently releasing v0.2.12
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp!
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tantek
are demos in Brighton finished?
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petermolnar
they will be started in 40mins in theory, won't they?
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tommorris
tantek: nope, 15:24 in Brighton, we'll be demoing things.
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tommorris
...demoing things at some point soon
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tantek
ok cool! glad I didn’t miss it - just waking up and timezone math is hard ;)
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tommorris
my mini-life hack for that: google "time in [city]" and it'll tell you
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tantek
Loqi, what time is it in Brighton?
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Loqi
:)
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rhiaro
<Loqi> 15:26
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tommorris
tantek: take a gander at http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-linting :)
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rhiaro
I've got your back, Loqi
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tantek
rhiaro++
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Loqi
rhiaro has 121 karma
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tantek
tommorris: I gave up on <article>
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tantek
AFAIK it doesn’t help with any use-cases
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tantek
and re: 4, I think you mean dt-published
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tommorris
yes.
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tantek
but you could say dt-created <= dt-published <= dt-updated
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tommorris
just stuff I'm scribbling down as I work on other things.
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tantek
dt-created is mostly a brainstorm right now anyway
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tantek
though I suspect we’ll start seeing it as people create/use more offline posting UIs
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tantek
I assume demos will be broadcast on talky?
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tommorris
hmm. I treat created & published the same because of <time created>
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tommorris
can we get HTML5 to add published...? ;-)
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tantek
tommorris: why? nearly no one bothers with those attributes on <time>
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tantek
I thought we dumped them
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tantek
they’re just vestigial from early attempts and making a 1:1 conversion from HTML5 to Atom
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tommorris
they're still in HTML5 published spec iirc
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Rhiaro.co.uk * moved [[File:group.jpg]] to [[File:iwcbrighton2015.jpg]]
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tommorris
oh it got dumped from HTML LS
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tantek
yeah it did - and I thought HTML5 too
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ben_thatmustbeme
good morning tantek
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ben_thatmustbeme
hey all, will there be a talky for Brighton demos?
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tantek
I hope so!
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rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: Gonna try youtube, as seekr couldn't get talky working
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rhiaro
Unless anyone has a better one than youtube
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tantek
I tried loading talky / iwc-brighton and didn’t see anyone
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rhiaro
Demos in 30 mins
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: cool. it allows for saving too
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tantek
how’s the quality on youtube vs. talky?
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tantek
saving is useful
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rhiaro
the stream from PDX was fine for me
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tantek
the youtube one?
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rhiaro
yeah
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barnabywalters
agreed, the quality of the YT stream was better than talky usually is
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rhiaro
This is, assuming I can borrow a laptop from someone, cos the mic on my chromebook is terrible. Also I wouldn't be able to scribe..
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: its probably a bit late, but we have an indiewebcamp youtube account
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barnabywalters
for me down here in the SW at least
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rhiaro
oh, it's not late, can I use that? Who has the login?
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ben_thatmustbeme
not sure how to add people, going to try now
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think aaronpk has to do it, i can't add managers
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Rhiaro.co.uk * moved [[File:iwcbrighton2015.jpg]] to [[File:IWC Brighton 2015 group photo.jpg]]
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ben_thatmustbeme
added yesterday's video to the playlist at least https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCco4TTt7ikz9xnB35HrD5gQ/playlists
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ben_thatmustbeme
i should download all the videos form YT to archive them as well
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/form/from/
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: i should download all the videos from YT to archive them as well
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ben_thatmustbeme
is fast approaching a working sample of mp-chaining
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tantek
quick time check?
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rhiaro
doesn't have anything to demo :S
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tantek
time to demo?
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tantek
(as in how much left)
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rhiaro
T-13 minutes
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rhiaro
On the next hour
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ben_thatmustbeme
hehe, just flipping through that IWC video and happened on the SWAT0 discussion
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek really threw down the gauntlet
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tantek
oh that’s been saved?
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ben_thatmustbeme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJCtLhopfDY
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ben_thatmustbeme
hangouts on air can automatically save to youtube
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ben_thatmustbeme
which it did
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ben_thatmustbeme
bret++
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Loqi
bret has 74 karma
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tantek
did we link to that somewhere from /2015 ?
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: feel free to annotate time indexes!
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ben_thatmustbeme
i saw an edit in the chat that said it was linking
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tantek
you know you can make time index links to specific seconds of a yt vid right?
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tantek
timeline marginalia as it were
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Tantek.com * moved [[File:IWC Brighton 2015 group photo.jpg]] to [[File:2015-07-11-IWC-Brighton.jpg]]: use specific date to disambiguate, event type, city, default is a group so leave that out, same with photo
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adactio.com
edited /2015/Brighton (+0) "/* Schedule */" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /2015/Brighton (+18) "fix embed" (view diff)
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tantek
wow we didn’t end sessions til 18:30 on day 1 of IWC 2015 Portland yesterday!
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rhiaro
Youtu.be/aMuQ2U8nFPU
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tantek
and IWC Brighton finished at 17:00!
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rhiaro
Does that work?
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rhiaro
Aaanyone?
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john-ellison.com
edited /User:John-ellison.com (+61) (view diff)
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rhiaro
seekr, petermolnar, ben_thatmustbeme ^
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tantek
rhiaro: I see it now
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petermolnar
yes, it does
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rhiaro
Good good
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ben_thatmustbeme
looks good here
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rhiaro
Just waitng for everyone to reassemble
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@IndieWebCampUK
IndieWebCamp Brighton demos starting momentarily! Live stream: https://www.youtube.com/ (twtr.io/11YnbWEAP4Y)
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rhiaro
DEMOS!
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petermolnar
waves back
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rhiaro
adactio: plan was to post to site via SMS
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rhiaro
... got it working, and posting to twitter, but took longer than expected. Https was a problem, not sure why
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rhiaro
... Endpoint had to be on a subdomain not on https
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tommorris
https://twitter.com/Sulcalibur/status/620244698490343424
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@Sulcalibur
@adactio Next you'll be sending a fax (twtr.io/11YmbT9BaPj)
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tommorris
^ there's an idea
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rhiaro
haha
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tantek
lol
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rhiaro
Indiewebbers with FaxMachine, almost as silly as volcano...
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petermolnar
oohohoh faxes
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petermolnar
( our team used to manage 4k fax lines at the company )
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rhiaro
adactio: advantage to this is being in a really low bandwidth situation
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ben_thatmustbeme
avoids any shcema.org reference
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rhiaro
... *something baffling happens*
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rhiaro
... *live demo alert*
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rhiaro
... It worked!
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tommorris
adactio: "oh shit"
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: volcanos could have a visitor center.... OCEANS with a fax machine is worse
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@indiewebcamp
RT @IndieWebCampUK: IndieWebCamp Brighton demos starting momentarily! Live stream: https://www.youtube.com/ (twtr.io/11YnrMwTYuQ)
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tommorris
ben_thatmustbeme: there's probably some fax machines in the ocean. I know that's where I'd throw 'em.
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ben_thatmustbeme
adactio++ well done
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Loqi
adactio has 16 karma
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rhiaro
lady-bug.info
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rhiaro
... Wanted to work more on content
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rhiaro
... 'bits & pieces' section. Includes code snippets
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barnabywalters
the IWC brighton demos youtube live stream link is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMuQ2U8nFPU
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rhiaro
... Adds content on github, and retrieves on site, which is Wordpress
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rhiaro
... Uses a plugin
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rhiaro
... Pulls content from github into a post
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rhiaro
adactio: looked at oembed?
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ben_thatmustbeme
tommorris: well sory, fax number not fax machine
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tantek
oembed is too much hassle to faff with
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rhiaro
Plugin is Github Embed
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tommorris
hey, if Tower Bridge can have a Twitter account, you could have a fax number for an ocean. maybe you can fax things to it and it'll print them out and drop them in the ocean.
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rhiaro
tommorris: fax a message in a bottle?
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JohnEllison_
tommorris: :)
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tommorris
prepares the Arts Council grant.
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mey.vn
created /indieweb.txt (+2119) "Created page with "indieweb.txt is a proposal (first discussed at IndieWebCamp Brighton 2015) for a strategy to allow IndieWeb site owners to share information about: * IndieWeb tools they are usi..."" (view diff)
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/patrol]] patrol * Tommorris.org * marked revision 20542 of [[indieweb.txt]] patrolled
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tommorris.org
edited /indieweb.txt (+123) "HTML?" (view diff)
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rhiaro
Guillerme: Made a shout wall. Practicing PHP. Wants to change font based on mood
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rhiaro
Johannes: johannesdachsel.com
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/patrol]] patrol * Tommorris.org * marked revision 20312 of [[my favorite database]] patrolled
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rhiaro
... Wanted to get webmentions up and running. Had an endpoint but didn't store it
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petermolnar
that reminded me to the setup the the page responsiveness was based on what the webcam saw of your distance from the screen
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rhiaro
... So now, created fields in ProcessWire. Uses Bridgy. When a wm comes in, it populates the post fields
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rhiaro
... And in the frontend, it displays stars, reposts, comments etc
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rhiaro
... And on the post page, started on facepile
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rhiaro
... Kind of is already a plugin for processwire
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rhiaro
... But currently tailored to the fields I set up, so I wll have to make that configurable
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JohnEllison_
Johannes: good stuff my man
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rhiaro
Norm: Wants to back up / PESOS data
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rhiaro
... Has made an Instagram backup
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rhiaro
... *does the oauth dance*
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: the video keeps popping back and forth between the broadcast and charlotte's acct
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ben_thatmustbeme
need to set "present to everyone"
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rhiaro
ben_thatmustbe me... uh, okay
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rhiaro
The only button is 'stop broadcasting'. What do I need to look for?
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ben_thatmustbeme
if you are broadcasting, just click on the view of the video. clicking a specific person locks to them
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ben_thatmustbeme
taht should be fine
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cackhanded
!https://github.com/norm/instagram-backup
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adactio
Wow, Norm’s Instagram exporter is great!
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rhiaro
A specific person?
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rhiaro
tommorris: rebuild of site, has some plumbing to show
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ben_thatmustbeme
not too big a deal if you dont' get it
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ben_thatmustbeme
it happens when it goes silent
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tantek
go tommorris !
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ben_thatmustbeme
there should be an option at the top for "present to everyone" somehwere
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ben_thatmustbeme
or maybe on their preview window
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rhiaro
tommorris: demos rdfa and json-ld, but not all working :)
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rhiaro
... for places
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rhiaro
... You can also add .json, .rdf, .n3, .nt file extensions
#
rhiaro
... This is done with Django middleware
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ben_thatmustbeme
accoring to docs, drop down on preview window at bottom has that option
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rhiaro
got it, thanks ben_thatmustbeme
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rhiaro
... adactio: "the html is the source of truth"
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rhiaro
All of tommorris's rdf/feed data is parased out of the html
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rhiaro
... Also been working on code to turn microformats json into Atom
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rhiaro
... Then, iCal, vCard, etc
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tommorris
rhiaro: all the RDF ones are working except JSON-LD for some odd reason I'll remedy in jost a moment
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tommorris
*just
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tommorris
fixed
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rhiaro
notizblog: hCard, sempress
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rhiaro
... Has anyone here not been on indiewebify.me? *no hands*
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rhiaro
... paultibbits.co.uk
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rhiaro
tommorris: if you can see URLs/remember people's names, can you fill in / correct me?
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rhiaro
I am failing at both
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: can i get approval for a download and repost of the video to the indiewebcamp yt channel?
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell bret can i get approval for a download and repost of the video to the indiewebcamp yt channel?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: sure, I'll put you in touch with Charlotte
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rhiaro
after demos
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rhiaro
... Want to look like aprilzero.com
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/patrol]] patrol * Tommorris.org * marked revision 20141 of [[Telegram]] patrolled
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rhiaro
Andy: a tale of woe..
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rhiaro
... Was going to get involved in indiemark, but seeing as Paul challenged me to get a blog I thought I'd try to get micropub up and running on a new box
#
rhiaro
... Got some hosting on Digital Ocean, spin up an ubuntu box, set up a firewall, set up SSH....
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rhiaro
... About 11, kicked off DNS propagation
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rhiaro
... Hasn't caught up yet.
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rhiaro
... Installed node
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bret
ben_thatmustbeme: go for it! Public domain cc 0 wtfbbq etc
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Loqi
bret: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 minutes ago: can i get approval for a download and repost of the video to the indiewebcamp yt channel? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436714908553
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kylewm
ShaneHudson_: I commented on your Quill issue: https://github.com/aaronpk/Quill/issues/17#issuecomment-120730705
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@paulrobertlloyd
Overheard: “Seeing as Paul challenged me to set up a blog…” That’s the spirit @dennisimo! Your move, @patrickhamann. #indiewebcamp (twtr.io/11Yq04LBpgL)
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rhiaro
oh ben_thatmustbeme: do you just need a 'verbal' approval? I wasn't sure if you were referring to some technical youtube process
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tantek
paulrobertlloyd++
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Loqi
paulrobertlloyd has 1 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: just verbal. technical is easy
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petermolnar
can someone please whisper him when he's done that digitalocean does free dns hosting with 900sec revisit time? :)
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rhiaro
Andy: read through everything, went to have a look to see if anyone has done anything in node for micropub. Nobody has
#
rhiaro
... So looked at PHP. Trying to port something from one language ou don't speak to another language you don't speak is challenging..
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seekr
hi, rhiaro - been having severe ISP problems today - will check your uToob link now
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Loqi
seekr: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 4 hours, 24 minutes ago: did I say there was only audio from the talky feed?? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436699371162
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/uToob/youtube
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seekr
hi, ben_thatmustbeme - where do I pick up the msg Loqi mentioned?
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats it, its done
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ben_thatmustbeme
it just replays the message when you speak in IRC
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seekr
what's done, besides Brighton?
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seekr
ah - I see.
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seekr
You're referring to my mentioning to someone earlier today you could only get audio yesterday, ben_thatmustbeme? Did I misquote you?
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rhiaro
Andy: will publish node version of micropub ultimately
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rhiaro
paulrobertlloyd.com: Launched website!
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tantek
hey seekr - we’re focusing on taking notes of the Brighton demos right now - maybe hold off on questions / other IRC discussion til after?
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seekr
ok, tantek
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rhiaro
... One post, with an old webmention. Still developing locally what it should look like
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rhiaro
... Been using Aaron Gustafson's thing for Jekyll
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rhiaro
?: set up https
#
rhiaro
... indieweb.txt
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tantek
could Brighton presenters say their name and domain name?
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rhiaro
... indiestats already on the wiki
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rhiaro
... indie-stats.com, source code on github, but code doesn't seem to be what is live
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rhiaro
... What I did today was understand what's in the indiestats core
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rhiaro
s/?/mey.vn
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rhiaro
... Gets all the websites from the irc-people page on the wiki
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rhiaro
... Is a json dump of relevant metadata from a website
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rhiaro
... rel=me etc
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rhiaro
... Idea is to add parsing of indieweb.txt
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rhiaro
... Which includes tools people are using
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lewisnyman
I'm watching!
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rhiaro
... In indieweb.txt, link to blog posts decribing tools and reasons, rather than putting it all in there
#
rhiaro
... Or maybe an embedded rel= instead of indieweb.txt
#
rhiaro
... All up for discussion in IRC in the next few days!
#
rhiaro
... To promote discovery, as well as back up decisions
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rhiaro
Charlotte: lottejackson.com
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rhiaro
... Spent time getting a local version of site running
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rhiaro
... Added microformats
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aaronpk
good morning!
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Loqi
aaronpk: barnabywalters left you a message 1 hour, 27 minutes ago: I see you tagged v0.2.10 of php-mf2 on the 10th — thanks for merging those pull requests! In future can you let me know if you want to to tag a new version so that I can add to the changelog and sign the commit? I’m currently releasing v0.2.12 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436710842440
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GWG
Good morning, aaronpk
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aaronpk
ah thanks barnabywalters! will do!
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rhiaro
... Just threw in all microformats I found
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rhiaro
... Read a lot
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rhiaro
... Did manage to send a webmention
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rhiaro
... Not receiving yet, started
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aaronpk
Brighton demos are streaming on the PDX projector!
#
rhiaro
awesome aaronpk
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rhiaro
... *uncovers bugs in adactio's site*
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tommorris.org
edited /Instagram (+112) "/* Exporting your data */ adding cackhanded's backup tool" (view diff)
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rhiaro
JohnEllison: sketched ideas for a service that could piggyback off indieweb.txt idea
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#
rhiaro
... Maybe something like indiewebify.me could look for the indieweb.txt then give you an automatic score from indiemark
#
rhiaro
... I know indiestats is a crawler
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rhiaro
... but could nice if it also recieved information from users
#
rhiaro
... Be nice ot have a standard way of seeing what resources people are using
#
rhiaro
... Visualisations of stats, number of sites using a given technology etc
#
rhiaro
... Edited some wiki pages
#
rhiaro
... Added previous/next navigation to my site
#
rhiaro
... john-ellison.com
#
rhiaro
... Getting started with mifroformats
#
rhiaro
Raphael: Was playing with Jekyll. Trying to build a plugin
# JohnEllison_ joined the channel
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rhiaro
... When you build a Jekyll site, it looks through the posts to convert microformats into json, and stores it in a separate file
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tommorris
https://tommorris.org/posts/9348
#
rhiaro
... Having some issues
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KevinMarks
yikes, I thought demos were at 5 not 4 :(
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GWG
Just got back, and saw the demos were up. Got them up on the screen
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rhiaro
Rosa: rosa-fox.com
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KevinMarks
resize the window - chrome bug
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rhiaro
... Blog was one long page. Made an admin section.
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rhiaro
... Uses static files for blog posts, so they're separate with their own urls, rather than being on one page
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KevinMarks
video frozen
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rhiaro
should be back
#
rhiaro
Benjamin Parry: worked through indiemark
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rhiaro
... Added more relmeauth options
#
rhiaro
... Worked through indiewebify.me
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rhiaro
... indiewebify.me isn't picking up author, not sure why
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barnabywalters
ooh, what’s the URL? I’ll look into it
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rhiaro
adactio: needs to be link rel=
#
rhiaro
barnabywalters: we've debugged I think
#
rhiaro
... Added description to blog posts
#
rhiaro
... Added microformats
#
rhiaro
... Spent whole afternoon trying to get webmentions using Aaaron Gustafson's plugin for Jekyll, but wasn't working
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rhiaro
rhiaro: will post incoming webmention display progress when online :)
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rhiaro
HI EVERYONE
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tvn
hi
#
tommorris
greetings humans
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JohnEllison_
Thanks everyone! Super fun weekend...
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rhiaro
IRC being projected on the screen is the *most* exciting thing
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aaronpk
waves from PDX
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GWG
waves from NYC
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tantek
waves from the Ace Hotel Portland
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barnabywalters
waves from Devon
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tvn
o/
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KevinMarks
HWC UK!
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GWG
Every time I tell people I'm involved with something called the Homebrew Website Club, they think I make beer
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tantek
Is Brighton getting a HWC?
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aaronpk
GWG: one time a random dude showed up at the PDX HWC and thought there was free beer
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rhiaro
Brighton yes, Birmingham maybe
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: did he leave with a website?
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aaronpk
hehe
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GWG
Maybe it should be changed to Homegrown Website Club. But then they'd want vegetables.
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tommorris
I could bring some courgettes.
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barnabywalters
mmmmm
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tommorris
h-courgette
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rhiaro
has everyone gone a bit mad?
#
tommorris
PUB PUB PUB PUB PUB PUB PUB
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tantek
tommorris: sounds like an h-product :P
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rhiaro
tardis.pub
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petermolnar
thanks to everyone for putting this together, definitely see you next year ( worst case :) )
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rhiaro
^ that's a url
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rhiaro
IWC BRIGHTON SIGNING OFF
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tantek
o/
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tommorris
http://schema.org/BarOrPub
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GWG
petermolnar: I didn't spot you on the feed.
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barnabywalters
tommorris: lol
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petermolnar
I'm not there today; only yesterday ( work... )
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indie-visitor_
\nick anomalily
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GWG
petermolnar: Oh. Okay.
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GWG
We going to switch to the PDX feed?
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glennjones
Really sorry I could make today, great demos
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lewisnyman
Yep great demos :)
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Loqi
slack/shaunguice: (g'mornin from berkeley, ca.) Caught the last 10 mins of the stream :simple_smile: I like John-Ellison's idea of indiestats as a crawler.
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GWG
Here we are...please stand by for 48 more minutes
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GWG
anomalily: Nice speaking to you yesterday, by the way
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ShaneHudson_
kylewm: Thanks for the reply to github about ?repl=, my app is now working nicely :) Will improve to work with a settings page
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tantek
is thinking of taking on the challenge of nice “mobile” post styling today
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ben_thatmustbeme
when does PDX start, 9 or 10?
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually its past 9, so i'm guessing 10
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tantek
I think 9:30 doors open, start at 10
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: sounded like some good interest in SWAT0
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ben_thatmustbeme
heard one person in the audience say "I'd be up for doing A"
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: in what context?
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tantek
in which audience?
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ben_thatmustbeme
PDX, during your discussion of it from day 1
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tantek
ah ok
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tantek
that reminds me
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tantek
I think my first “hack” task for today is to define comments markup since no one else has bothered to respond to my requests in IRC the past 2-3 days :/
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ShaneHudson_
I feel quite productive this weekend, got micropub working, went casino, got cleaning done, make a quick android app for sharing and now cooking a roast :)
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tantek
aaronpk, kylewm, benwerd, ben_thatmustbeme ^^^^^
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aaronpk
i need to work with you on that in order to finish part B of sawt0
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tantek
aaronpk - can you at least document your existing comments markup on the wiki?
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: i am publishing now a copy of your example, it seemed to make sense
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ben_thatmustbeme
h-cite p-comment
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aaronpk
tantek: where? here? http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#How_to_markup
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tantek
aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809
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aaronpk
gotcha
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seekr
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but I note that the demos video is now archived, in case anyone missed it when it was live: https://youtu.be/aMuQ2U8nFPU - I suppose this link will be added to the wiki.
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh, i didn't do p-summary
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tantek
tell ben_thatmustbeme,benwerd,kylewm really need you to take a look at this http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809 and please followup with: 1) feedback on my comments markup, 2) document your own on the wiki.
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tantek
!tell ben_thatmustbeme,benwerd,kylewm really need you to take a look at this http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809 and please followup with: 1) feedback on my comments markup, 2) document your own on the wiki.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, would e-content make more sense?
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: tantek left you a message 1 minute ago: really need you to take a look at this http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809 and please followup with: 1) feedback on my comments markup, 2) document your own on the wiki. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436718176490
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: what do you mean by “make more sense?” - what’s the use-case for e-content above p-content ?
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tantek
in general if someone asks “make more sense”, my gut reaction is to say no it would not, provide a specific reason.
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: your example on the page doesn't have p-content, only p-summary
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ben_thatmustbeme
comments could be quite long
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: please follow order of requests in the !tell
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aaronpk
i think as a consumer, you're going to have to look at the "content" property and if it's a string, use that value, if it's an object, use the "text" property
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tantek
my comments markup is linked from here http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809
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ben_thatmustbeme
this is feedback / brainstorming. or do you want feedback on wiki
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: you’re looking at the wrong thing
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tantek
I don’t have p-summary in my comments on my article
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tantek
please read http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809 literally
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tantek
feedback here is fine because I’d rather see people discuss it
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tantek
here realtime
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aaronpk
i meant "value" property
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tantek
I’ve already pointed out that the “how to markup” on the wiki is likely out of date (also in IRC in the past couple of days - do a search for all references to “comment-presentation” )
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ben_thatmustbeme
ah, sorry, thought it had been updated
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ben_thatmustbeme
or at least that code sample
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aaronpk
so the wiki says "The class p-summary is used on the p-comment h-cite because the expectation is that the site may have summarized..."
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tantek
no - because I’m still waiting for people to provide feedback
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tantek
that’s the problem - I get the feeling no one is listening
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aaronpk
I think that is fine, if the site does in fact summarize/truncate it
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tantek
hence why I specifically asked for this: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809
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tantek
aaronpk - wiki is out of date per current publising practices
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ben_thatmustbeme
is changing diapers and code at the same time
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ben_thatmustbeme
#multitasking
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tantek
aaronpk - which is why I’m asking for feedback on my markup, not the wiki’s “how to markup"
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KevinMarks
do we need an -examples page?
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tantek
KevinMarks: no we haven’t yet
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aaronpk
i think we need an examples page
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GWG
Okay, neither my POSSE plugin nor Bridgy want to publish. Annoyed
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tantek
we’ve been putting them inline elsewhere on indiewebcamp
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aaronpk
otherwise i don't even know where all the examples are to look at
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tantek
aaronpk - there are none currently
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tantek
on the wiki for comments markup - that’s my point
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tantek
hence asking for feedback on my comments markup *on my site*
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aaronpk
are you waiting for someone else to add them?
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KevinMarks
lets make one and collate - on microformats?
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KevinMarks
or on indiewebcamp
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tantek
no I’m waiting for someone to give feedback in IRC
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aaronpk
there are 4 sites that I know of, kylewm.com, tantek.com (one post) aaronparecki.com, ben.thatmustbe.me
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kylewm
messages?
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KevinMarks
also webmention.io and webmention.herokuapp.com
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aaronpk
tantek: i think your mf2 is fine, http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436718336697
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Loqi
kylewm: tantek left you a message 7 minutes ago: really need you to take a look at this http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809 and please followup with: 1) feedback on my comments markup, 2) document your own on the wiki. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436718176490
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aaronpk
webmention.io doesn't output HTML markup
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aaronpk
tantek: I don't really care what your HTML looks like, only what the parsed result looks like. as a consumer of that, I see the "content" property is a string value, and I know what to do with that
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tantek
aaronpk - ok good to now
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tantek
s/now/know
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: aaronpk - ok good to know
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aaronpk
I will have to do the same heuristics as in h-entry to determine whether the "content" property is the same as the "name" property to be able to tell whether the "name" value is useful to display
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tantek
aaronpk - as a separate issue, the fact that you have to do such heuristics means there’s likely something we should fix with implied p-name
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aaronpk
i agree
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: it was far better than my (non marked up comments) p-comment would seem an easy way for me to pull that data
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tantek
I use p-content there because 1) I’m not including any HTML from the source comment, thus p-* instead of e-*
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ben_thatmustbeme
wonders how nested comments will be marked up, just nest p-comments within p-comments?
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KevinMarks
we have http://microformats.org/wiki/comment-examples
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tantek
and 2) I use p-content because I’m showing *the entire comment*, and thus p-content instead of p-summary
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tantek
KevinMarks - that’s horribly out of date
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tantek
I think we’re way past that level of analysis
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KevinMarks
so should we fix it or start http://indiewebcamp.com/comment-examples
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tantek
neither for now
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KevinMarks
o_O
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tantek
because if we can converge quickly on best practices, we just update the “how to markup” on /comment-presentation
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tantek
KevinMarks, per http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-10#t1436575014809
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KevinMarks
so you're saying instead of docuemtning practices on the wiki we shoudl chat in irc>
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KevinMarks
what are comment examples?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "comment examples" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=comment+examples&summary=prompted+by+KevinMarks+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-12%2Fline%2F1436719006284
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tantek
because the practices are so new that they are changing
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ben_thatmustbeme
is h-cite, p-comment the logical really? or is it more like h-comment?
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tantek
KevinMarks, by the time you document it on the wiki, people will have changed their markup - so it’s not that useful
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: why do you need a new object h-comment?
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kylewm
microformats wiki recommends "p-comment h-entry", so that's another candidate
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: always try to re-use existing building blocks before making up new ones
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tantek
kylewm: yes that’s out of date too
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tantek
we started with that on indiewebcamp, and then switch to p-comment h-cite to indicate that it’s not an original entry but rather a citation of someone else’s entry
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tantek
which provides the immediate flexibility to do things like truncate, use plain text instead of HTML etc.
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kylewm
tantek: your markup looks good to me, mine is the same except I use e-content because I allow some minimal html through
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tantek
kylewm - ok good to know
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ben_thatmustbeme
just more thinking that p-comment indicates its only paragraph. yet is can have its own header and such
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ben_thatmustbeme
and nested comments
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think h-cite makes sense, just wanted to throw that idea in there
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ben_thatmustbeme
h-cite since its a replay of offsite data (might not contain the full text
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: p-* does not mean paragraph! where did you get that from?!?
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ben_thatmustbeme
wayyyy back when i first started, not sure
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kylewm
pfefferle's question on the wiki is well-founded -- what about native comments (i.e. not webmention/pingback)
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KevinMarks
p- means plaintext
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ben_thatmustbeme
didn't mean just one paragraph, or paragraph in the html sense
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ben_thatmustbeme
but yes, plain text
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ben_thatmustbeme
is not too eloquent at times
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tantek
native comments make sense as h-entry
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tantek
since that’s the canonical version of the thing
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ben_thatmustbeme
good point, but then we are mixing h-entry and h-cite ? would that be difficult on processing
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ben_thatmustbeme
?
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aaronpk
i don't think that'd be any harder
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kylewm
Known's native comments do actually have permalinks of their own, on a separate page
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kylewm
so those might still make sense as h-cite
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aaronpk
heh
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aaronpk
i think we have a set of rules here that can be written up as a how-to now
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aaronpk
it's basically a bunch of "if ... then.." depending on whether a) the comment has a permalink of its own, b) you are displaying the full plaintext vs full html vs a truncated version
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ben_thatmustbeme
last question, do we need something to contain all the comments section as one. the use case being that it would give the ability to set a u-url for it and thus make webmetion.io and similar offsite comments parsable
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KevinMarks
ben_thatmustbeme++
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aaronpk
yes, that's p-comment
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 92 karma
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aaronpk
all the comments are on the "comment" property
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KevinMarks
hm
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ben_thatmustbeme
no, aaronpk, the comments themselves are not on the site
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ben_thatmustbeme
they are injected
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ben_thatmustbeme
wrapping it all would be in the html though
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KevinMarks
this is what I was getting at yesterday
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aaronpk
mine are not injected, mine live on the site, and there's no way i'm going to move it
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aaronpk
but yes for the js-embed use case there should be something for it
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KevinMarks
not the point, aaronpk
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aaronpk
that's totally separate from the actual markup of the comments, it would still follow the comments-presentation rules
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KevinMarks
js-embed is not a reasonabel thing to parse
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KevinMarks
an html version is, eitehr rendered from the indejected data or a seprate url
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aaronpk
right
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ben_thatmustbeme
.p-comments > .p-comment.h-cite > p-content
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aaronpk
i'm all for that
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aaronpk
wait what
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KevinMarks
I was proposing an iframe embed aas an html alternative to js-injection for static sites
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KevinMarks
as an iframe src is parsable
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KevinMarks
(js-injected iframes are more of a pain)
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ben_thatmustbeme
and thus the idea would be if you see .p-comments->.u-url that means the comments are stored on external URL. and you can receive salmentions from sites that use webmention.io
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KevinMarks
or webmention.herokuapp.com
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KevinMarks
or potentially disqus et al
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ben_thatmustbeme
using webmention.io as example, may be any other
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@deanna
RT @kevinmarks: “Reddit isn't the front door to the rest of the Internet. It's a basement with a built-in bar” http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/11/reddit-is-not-the-front-page-of-the-internet.html?via=meme&source=indieweb http:… (twtr.io/11YxE5e5Ex4)
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Zegnat
ben_thatmustbeme, wouldn’t that be .u-comments, without a parent element? Or am I forgetting my mf2 parsing rules now
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ben_thatmustbeme
nesting that way isn't pretty though, would actually need another h-*
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ben_thatmustbeme
Zegnat: just realized that
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ben_thatmustbeme
.u-comments or .u-external-comments, or something like that
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rhiaro
reads backlong on comments markup, as that's what she's working on right now
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Zegnat
.h-entry > .u-comments
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ben_thatmustbeme
many sites might have links down to the comments section of their own site too
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rhiaro
I started copying what was on comments-presentation
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ben_thatmustbeme
u-comments would make sense for that, would be the same URL probably with just a different fragment probably
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rhiaro
I'm actually working on a /mentions page, so replies appear there but without the full post they're replying to, ie. not inside a parent h-entry. Does p-comment not make sense in that case?
#
rhiaro
just h-cite for them all?
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: i was going to ask that with what tantek said about h-entry vs h-cite for comments. but i think its okay to do h-entry there.
#
rhiaro
but they're still not my content
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kylewm
I slightly don't like the idea of differentiating p-comment from p-comments just by a "s"
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rhiaro
though it is a feed in its own right..
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aaronpk
h-cite for external content is a good plan all the time
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ben_thatmustbeme
kylewm: neither do i
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aaronpk
kylewm: i agree, seems too likely to typo or not recognize
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ben_thatmustbeme
but couldn't think up anything better
#
aaronpk
maybe .comments-at along the lines of .in-reply-to ?
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ben_thatmustbeme
u-commentary
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rhiaro
tantek: why do you use u-author h-card instead of p-author?
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kylewm
+1 comments-at
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2015/Schedule (+12) "/* Sunday 2015-07-12 */ starting at 10:30" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: if its only a url, you can just use u-autor
#
rhiaro
.comments-feed?
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rhiaro
But there's still text inside the tag
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ben_thatmustbeme
name is implicit
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rhiaro
oh
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kylewm
wordpress has prior art for a rel= link to an RSS feed for comments, might that be worth exploring?
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tantek
u-author is most minimal since the consuming code can go get the name from the h-card at the destination
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aaronpk
where's a good place to link the youtube URLs?
#
tantek
kylewm: what rel value?
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rhiaro
tantek: okay, sounds reasonable
#
kevinmarks.com
created /comment-examples (+825) "gathering comment markup" (view diff)
#
KevinMarks
OK, who esle
#
rhiaro
(I had a u-url inside the h-card)
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aaronpk
oh that reminds me...
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aaronpk
wordpress does this already right?
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kylewm
tantek: rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" unfortunately
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: either works
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tantek
re: iframe brainstorming - irrelevant until someone is actually using an iframe to embed comments on their live site
#
rhiaro
yeah, the <a is in a <p so I'm gonna leave it
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tantek
kylewm: well that’s not useful for discovery so we can ignore it
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kylewm
comments in an iframe -- http://kylewm.github.io/
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kylewm
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 215 karma
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aaronpk
lol sorry kylewm beat me to it and i was away for a sec when he mentioned wordpress
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KevinMarks
I'm going to embed comments in an iframe today
#
KevinMarks
who else has actual comment examples
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ben_thatmustbeme
mine are similar to tantek's
#
KevinMarks
url to them plz
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ben_thatmustbeme
see source of https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/7/10/1/#comments
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/11/1/indiewebcamp
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GWG
pfefferle marks up all of my comments, and I've gotten into the p- vs other markup with him.
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kylewm
more comments http://acegiak.net/2015/07/03/hug-medic-kale-darkestkale-29/#comments
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chreekat-m
Did i miss anything yet? :P I'm on my way now
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kevinmarks.com
edited /comment-examples (+1250) "/* ben.thatmustbe.me */" (view diff)
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: more comments <https://snarfed.org/2015-06-04_what-doesnt-kill-my-baby#comments>
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kevinmarks.com
edited /comment-examples (+0) (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com
edited /comment-examples (+7952) "/* add yours here */" (view diff)
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csarven
The more I look into mf2, I realize how much of a hackjob it turned out to be.
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ben_thatmustbeme
?
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ben_thatmustbeme
csarven: maybe take that to #microformats
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csarven
I would if iwc didn't hijack the mf process ;)
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gRegorLove
Morning, indiewebcamp
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kevinmarks.com
edited /comment-examples (+5092) "/* http://acegiak.net/ */" (view diff)
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kylewm
no need to be rude, csarven
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KevinMarks
csarven: hack job is your way of saying 'code first, then spec?'
#
aaronpk
wow my html is messy lol
#
aaronpk
lots of funny linebreaks and whitespace
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: mine too
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ben_thatmustbeme
well, my classes are
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KevinMarks
yeah, I'm just doing straight copy paste here
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KevinMarks
if someone wants to tidy indents, please do
#
KevinMarks
also, i may be over grabbing
#
KevinMarks
eg forms and things
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gRegorLove
!tell seekr, KartikPrabhu Yesterday's demos will be put on the wiki eventually at http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Demos. Same for today's hack day demos. Yesterday's demos are currently in the IRC logs but will be dumped to that page.
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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csarven
I've noticed that you guys were discussing where or how to use p-* properly for instance.
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aaronpk
some of that was just misunderstanding
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csarven
So, p- is for plain text and e- may include elements?
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KevinMarks
mf2 is flexible enough to mark things up differently
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GWG
So, I have a dilemma for all of you. WordPress requires some sort of title, even if it is auto-generated and not displayed. Trying to figure out what the auto-generated title should be a for a Like.
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gRegorLove
p- is a parser directive, to parse the contents as plain text
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csarven
Which also means, zillion different ways to parse it.
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KevinMarks
e- menas grab html content
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ShaneHudson_
Craft also has the same issue GWG
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gRegorLove
No
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gRegorLove
The parser directives are pretty concise, in my experience
#
csarven
gRegorLove Thanks for the clarification.
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ben_thatmustbeme
csarven: one very clearly spec-ed parsing algorithm
#
GWG
Last night, I was hooking into the WordPress title generation hooks and trying to decide what I could substitute
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ShaneHudson_
GWG: For my site, I used minutesecond as a title. Felt like an id, without being always unique
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KevinMarks
OK, I'm goign to add the webmention.herokuapp.com markup, which is missing mf2
#
csarven
e.g., p-summary '<p>Ahoy hoy</p>' should return what?
#
GWG
ShaneHudson_: I tried that. People found it a bit weird because if they saw it...which in some formats they did...
#
csarven
<div class="p-summary"><p>Ahoy hoy</p></div>
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gRegorLove
csarven: You can try dropping HTML into a live parser: http://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/?
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KevinMarks
nothign as it's not in an h-
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GWG
I'm thinking of having it, if there is a title for the thing I'm liking, using that. Example "Liked Pants Article"
#
KevinMarks
http://www.unmung.com/?html=csarven++%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-example%22%3E%3Cdiv+class%3D%22p-summary%22%3E%3Cp%3EAhoy+hoy%3C%2Fp%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E&pretty=on
#
kylewm
GWG: that's how I generate slugs
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ben_thatmustbeme
KevinMarks: beat me to it
#
kylewm
csarven: seriously questions about how to parse microformats should be in #microformats
#
GWG
kylewm: My problem now is that, if I'm not entering that data, and I'm pulling it from the URL, that doesn't happen till after the post is created. Which means I have to move that code to earlier in the chain.
#
csarven
kylewm Certainly. So, the discussion earlier on p-* with ben_thatmustbeme belongs here? (*serious* question)
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ben_thatmustbeme
csarven: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2-parsing
#
ben_thatmustbeme
csarven: exactly, i was unsure on parsing, should have asked in #microformats
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kevinmarks.com
edited /comment-examples (+3966) "/* webmention.herokuapp */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks
hm, that needs newlines
#
ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: can you add rhiaro as a manager for IWC youtube channel for streming of IWC Edin.
#
aaronpk
yes!
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aaronpk
rhiaro: I need your gmail account
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aaronpk
oh nvm found it
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aaronpk
google+ search
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rhiaro
aaronpk: k!
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aaronpk
added
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rhiaro
It's obvious
#
@dissolve333
IndieWebCamp stream while dealing with this (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/photo/2015/7/12/1/) https://twitter.com/dissolve333/status/620283259516157953/photo/1 (twtr.io/11Z0NwwzEzD)
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kevinmarks.com
edited /comment-examples (+24) "/* webmention.herokuapp.com */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
hehe
#
GWG
I'm trying to match people with names in the video
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i think many are not in IRC
#
KevinMarks
live stream of hacking day is funny
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aaronpk
we're about to start intros today
#
aaronpk
will not be livestreaming on youtube most of today
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GWG
Intro away
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aaronpk
can someone dig up an example of who is using webmention.herokuapp.com and providing an HTML link to the comments page?
#
tantek
lacking any examples of that, we don’t need to design markup for it
#
tantek
all the u-comments, comments-at etc. bikeshedding above
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GWG
And the podium is now visible....the excitement is about to begin.
#
GWG
The crowd is hushed with anticipation
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KevinMarks
OK, who else has comment markup?
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KevinMarks
aaronpk: working on it
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KevinMarks
at the moment it is generated js
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barnabywalters
KevinMarks: ! ditto my previous comment in #indiechat
#
barnabywalters
if so then I have comment markup
#
KevinMarks
url plz
#
GWG
aaronpk welcomes everyone to Hack Day and describes the goal of working on your site.
#
barnabywalters
here’s the latest example from my homepage feed: https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4c7J8D/
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GWG
aaronpk reviews Indiemark as a way of getting ideas.
#
gRegorLove
what is indiemark?
#
GWG
aaronpk suggests the attendees solve one impossible problem before lunch
#
Loqi
IndieMark is a set of metrics for measuring the indieweb-ness of a site, and a step-by-step approach to incrementally adopting indieweb features on your site https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark
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kevinmarks.com
edited /comment-examples (+91) "/* add deleted template*/" (view diff)
#
GWG
would like to hear some people talk about what they are planning to try to work on
#
GWG
's wish is granted
#
kevinmarks.com
edited /comment-examples (+5910) "/* add yours here */" (view diff)
#
GWG
wonders why aaronpk had tacos for breakfast if he's having tacos for lunch.
#
barnabywalters
GWG: because tacos, obv :)
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GWG
tantek covers that your hack can be more theoretical than applied.
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tjgillies_
barnabywalters: Im stoked that taco has it's own emoji now
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barnabywalters
tjgillies_: !!
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kylewm
not theoretical, just more design/documentation rather than code
#
tantek
GWG, more like prototyping than theoretical
#
tjgillies_
http://www.unicode.org/emoji/charts/full-emoji-list.html#1f32e
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tjgillies_
so does burrito
#
gRegorLove
design-mentation
#
kevinmarks.com
edited /comment-examples (+590) "/* add yours here */" (view diff)
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GWG
aaronpk plans to work on SWAT0 on his site.
#
tantek
really need a term for the creative act of taking a UI flow, and writing up the series of protocol/formats steps that would implement it
#
GWG
tantek: Mapping?
#
GWG
Can someone take a picture of the board to dump into the wiki when complete?
#
tantek
GWG, someone else said documentation
#
tantek
I’m looking for a specific term
#
GWG
I may have to step away
#
tantek
e.g. we have visual design, UI design, UX flow, coding etc. as creative acts
#
kevinmarks.com
edited /comment-examples (+1067) "/* waterpigs.co.uk */ missed most of it" (view diff)
#
GWG
relinquishes the keyboard
#
tjgillies_
Is there a microformats JSON standard?
#
kevinmarks.com
edited /comment-examples (+0) "reorder" (view diff)
#
barnabywalters
this evening I’m working on fixing some of the things which have mysteriously stopped working on waterpigs.co.uk (maps and, as of yesterday, twitter POSSE)
#
KevinMarks
tjgillies_: what do you mean?
#
tjgillies_
representing microformats in json documents
#
KevinMarks
there is a standard JSON output from parsing microfromats
#
tjgillies_
I on't have any html on my site its all json responses
#
KevinMarks
you cna use that
#
KevinMarks
but an mf2 parser won't parse it
#
KevinMarks
if you want to actually interoperate, you need to create html
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /comment-examples (+25) "/* tantek.com */ re-indent" (view diff)
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tjgillies_
I guess thats a good reason to generate html then
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /comment-examples (-282) "/* ben.thatmustbe.me */ reindent" (view diff)
#
aaronpk
also you know, so people can read it
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tjgillies_
JSON is readable
#
tjgillies_
;)
#
tjgillies_
I could always render my pages in a binary protocol
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /comment-examples () "(-1197) /* https://aaronparecki.com */ reindent (still a bit messy for some reason)" (view diff)
#
tjgillies_
I would argue that json is a lot more readable than some of the websites out there heh
#
KevinMarks
tjgillies_: it's not really a web page if it's in json
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /comment-examples (+877) "/* http://acegiak.net/ */ reindent" (view diff)
#
tantek
“took me 15 min to get my [WordPress] website back up & running with all the indieweb stuff”
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tjgillies_
why not? web is http protocol, json leverages http protocol
#
tantek
GWG++
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aaronparecki.com
edited /comment-examples (+49) "/* webmention.herokuapp.com */ reindent" (view diff)
#
Loqi
GWG has 103 karma
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kylewm
tjgillies_: that's just Sturgeon's law
#
tantek
JSONlol
#
kylewm
90% of everything is crap
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tjgillies_
googles sturgeon's law
#
kylewm
what is Sturgeon's law?
#
tjgillies_
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law
#
tjgillies_
Sturgeon's law, is an adage commonly cited as "ninety percent of everything is crap."
#
tjgillies_
Bravo
#
tjgillies_
I would say 80
#
tjgillies_
then its also pareto principle
#
GWG
tantek: Who said that? I had to turn off the video and step away.
#
tantek
GWG, that was anomalily
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kylewm
is that misuba doing multiuser known?
#
tantek
GWG, are you listening to this?
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kylewm
GWG: are your ears burning?
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parzzix
Whats up everyone?
#
kylewm
parzzix: watching folks discuss what they're going to hack on today at IWC PDX
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parzzix
ahhhhhhh.....good fun!
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GWG
kylewm, tantek: I'll have to watch it on the replay. I'm still in IRC though
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GWG
I did tell anomalily yesterday Feature Suggestions and Pull Requests are welcome.
#
kylewm
emmak_: you are going to work on micropub support for skein?
#
GWG
If I can implement a feature without too much trouble, I'm find trying.
#
ShaneHudson_
Do any other micropub clients implement ?reply= ?
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ShaneHudson_
Think I will make it customisable on settings page
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kylewm
ShaneHudson_: if your app uses micropub, you could possibly use mp-config to query the webaction endpoints http://indiewebcamp.com/mp-config
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kylewm
suggests self-serving features :)
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voxpelli
mp-config, indie-config or a custom config sounds better than relying on a specific URL pattern of Micropub clients :)
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emmak___
kylewm: yes
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gRegorLove
I'm working on updating my permalinks and de-duping webmentions. I'm thinking my hash to identify a unique webmention, md5(source + target) will be updated to md5(source + source path). Leaving off the domain and the schema so eventually when I make my site https-only, I won't have to change the de-dupe algorithm
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kylewm
emmak___: awesome! i'm excited about that :)
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gRegorLove
Maybe I'll leave in the domain, actually. In case I add subdomains at some point.
#
voxpelli
(Remote partly attendance, but will still share: I've been working on enabling publishing to my GitHub Pages Jekyll blog from Editorial.app over MicroPub – all very modular and reusable)
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh yeah, duh, forgot about that voxpelli
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ben_thatmustbeme
mp-config that is
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ben_thatmustbeme
sorry i didn't remember that earlier ShaneHudson_
#
voxpelli
Will try to publish my MicroPub publication workflow for the iOS app http://omz-software.com/editorial/ soon
#
torrorist
i want to watch stuff on talky.io what room are you all in?
#
kylewm
I'm remote too and wil probably be in and out, but working on POSSE comments to instagram and standing by to help with SWAT0 if I can
#
misuba
it’s possible that I’m trying to write a Known plugin for user-specific colors
#
gregorlove.com
created /User:Gregorlove.com/Changing_permalinks (+541) "starting documentation" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
oh, so i realized i am sending salmentions for every webmention to my post. including likes
#
ben_thatmustbeme
and mentions
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ben_thatmustbeme
should it only be for comments you think?
#
tantek
no it should be for all
#
tantek
so that another SWAT0 variant where C likes instead of comments works too
#
aaronpk
yea pretty sure for everything makes sense
#
tantek
and then B gets a notification that C liked a photo they were tagged in
#
tantek
(which for example is a real world thing that Facebook implements)
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ben_thatmustbeme
good point
#
tantek
edits /comment-presentation display algorithm
#
tantek
per questions from aaronpk
#
Zegnat
I think the idea is to send a salmention (ie. a webmention to notify upstream that your article changed) for everything you include on the page, right? So if you display likes on your page, notify upstream
#
ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: don't we need to consider likes markup then too
#
aaronpk
yep, the simple version is "send the webmention again if the URL changed"
#
aaronpk
where "changed" might be because you updated the post, or because you displayed a comment/like/whatever on the post
#
tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: already there, see /likes
#
tantek
and /reposts
#
tantek
Zegnat is correct
#
tantek
and aaronpk is correct
#
tantek.com
edited /comments-presentation (+360) "/* How to display */ get the text of the comment to display - more explicit IF AND OR THEN ELSE, and provide parenthetical explanation for See more link; all per aaronpk questions" (view diff)
#
tantek
wow http://indiewebcamp.com/comment-examples shows how much over-marked-up a bunch of comments are. goodness sakes people.
#
Zegnat
Is there any documentation for update webmentions? Other than http://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention#repeat_webmentions_not_an_error ? Might be a good thing to link that in /Salmention, would clear up a lot of questions re when and how to send them
#
tantek
also, what’s with people using massive indents in their HTML code?
#
tantek
isn’t two spaces enough? (ducks)
#
barnabywalters
if people use tabs that will show up as huge indentation due to browsers displaying tabs as eight spaces by default
#
chreekat
Can someone remind me the link that I can use to parse the microformats out of a page?
#
Zegnat
2 spaces for HTML indentation is in accordance with Google styleguide, I think.
#
tantek
chreekat pin13.net
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chreekat
tantek: thanks!
#
tantek
Zegnat - awesome - if you can provide a citation for that then I’ll start quoting it too :)
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tantek
tabs--
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Loqi
tabs has -1 karma
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barnabywalters
ugh PLEASE do not start a tab argument here
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tantek
barnabywalters: hey you’re the one that provided the reason for tabs being bad ;)
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Zegnat
tantek: http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/htmlcssguide.xml#Indentation
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barnabywalters
tabs++ let’s just keep this neutral
#
Loqi
tabs has 0 karma
#
tantek
sees a wall of text from that .xml link.
#
tantek
WAT: <GUIDE title="Google HTML/CSS Style Guide">
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tantek
Zegnat is there an HTML version of that page?
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barnabywalters
tantek: that wasn’t a condemnation of tabs being bad, it was an observation of how web browsers don’t yet allow designers to control how tabs are displayed
#
barnabywalters
I myself usually use tabs
#
tantek
barnabywalters: that lack of control over tabs is a good reason to not use them
#
tantek
that’s the point
#
Zegnat
Oddly enough, I think Google only has their styleguides as XML with XSL transforms
#
tantek
even if there was a way to allow designers to control how tabs are displayed - that just puts more work on the publisher :P
#
KevinMarks
hah
#
@tinokremer
@mkrmr https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress if you want to do all that magic on WordPress (twtr.io/11Z6chDJoKC)
#
Loqi
[mention] Tino Kremer posted '@mkrmr https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress if you want to do all that magic on WordPress' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress (http://stream.tinokremer.nl/2015/mkrmr-getting_started_on_wordpress-if-you-want-to-do-all-that-magic)
#
Loqi
[mention] Tino Kremer posted '@mkrmr https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress if you want to do all that magic on WordPress' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress (http://stream.tinokremer.nl/2015/mkrmr-getting_started_on_wordpress-if-you-want-to-do-all-that-magic)
#
barnabywalters
tantek: as I said: not talking about it :)
#
tantek
is not going to cite some random XML from Google
#
tantek
barnabywalters: too late, you already brought the reasons against tabs
#
Zegnat
Oh, apparently Google moved it to GitHub
#
Zegnat
New URL: http://google.github.io/styleguide/htmlcssguide.xml from https://github.com/google/styleguide
#
tantek
the irony of a *style* guide in fragile-styling XML is too much for me
#
KevinMarks
their xml style guide in in HTML http://google.github.io/styleguide/xmlstyle.html
#
KevinMarks
and 7 years old
#
Zegnat
Several of the styleguides seem to be made available as HTML (I am guessing XSL processed XML), but the HTML & CSS one isn’t
#
tantek
Zegnat - is that supposed to be a cruel joke on their part?
#
KevinMarks
which does cite http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2006/01/08/No-New-XML-Languages
#
kylewm.com
edited /comment-examples (+2155) "/* add yours here */ add me" (view diff)
#
tantek
XML style guide in HTML, HTML style guide in XML. WTF
#
Zegnat
No clue, looking if they have an open issue for HTML conversions
#
KevinMarks
so their xml style guide says read time first who says to use microfromats
#
KevinMarks
game over
#
KevinMarks
well XHTML, but we can forgive that given it was written in 2006
#
gRegorLove
GWG: which rel-me plugin/widget do you use/recommend with WordPress?
#
GWG
gRegorLove: Mine, Syndication Links.
#
KevinMarks
“ If you’re delivering information to humans over the Web, even if you don’t think of it as “Web Pages”, it’s almost certainly insane not to use XHTML.”
#
tantek
KevinMarks, it’s for that reason I put XHTML in my Atom. It’s like so you want Atom/XML huh? That means you fully support proper X(HT)ML handling right? Ok, parse this.
#
GWG
It has the choice of rel-me in the head or rel-me as a widget
#
GWG
Also does Rel-syndication
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GWG
gRegorLove: Did that work?
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gRegorLove
Passed the info on to anomalily and others here. Not sure.
#
gRegorLove
Thanks for the help!
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GWG
I'm here with any questions
#
GWG
I'm just not on video today
#
tantek
GWG, but you’re watching us right?
#
@dissolve333
Watching IndieWebCamp day two. (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/photo/2015/7/12/3/) https://twitter.com/dissolve333/status/620305609020215296/photo/1 (twtr.io/11Z8MyakSUG)
#
GWG
tantek: No. I can't focus on watching right now. Have work to do. I thought the Youtube thing went down
#
GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: You need a picture of you watching a picture of tantek and aaronpk.
#
ben_thatmustbeme
arghh.. tags didn't go correctly
#
tantek
ben_thatmustbeme++ for practicing his SWAT0 steps as player A
#
Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 93 karma
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tantek.com
created /2015/Hack_Day_Intro (+2022) "copy from /2015/Cambridge/Hack_Day_Intro and add explicit Hack means create section with summary expansion of visual, ui, ux, etc. creations too" (view diff)
#
tantek
anomalily: would appreciate your review and feedback on https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Hack_Day_Intro#Hack_means_create
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tantek.com
edited /2015/Hack_Day_Intro (+76) "link to /2015/Schedule" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /2015/Schedule (+61) "/* Sunday 2015-07-12 */ update day 2 intro link to link to day 2 specific intro" (view diff)
#
@Rosaemerald
Had a fun weekend at @indiewebcamp and improved the blog on my website http://www.rosa-fox.com/blog (twtr.io/11Z9DswYBNf)
#
@indiewebcamp
RT @Rosaemerald: Had a fun weekend at @indiewebcamp and improved the blog on my website http://www.rosa-fox.com/blog (twtr.io/11Z9JYFHu81)
#
gRegorLove
+1 for the idea of renaming "Hack Day" to "Create Day" or similar
#
tantek
gRegor-phone: except that doesn’t communicate it to existing folks who “get” what a Hack day is and appeals to them
#
tantek
if we make up our own names that only mean something to us, then we fail to communicate to everyone else
#
gRegorLove
Fair, though maybe including both terms in the name so it's clear. Clarifying that the focus is "creation" would be good I think
#
gRegorLove
For the less technically-inclined especially
#
gRegorLove
"Create Day (or Hack Day)"
#
tantek
or Maker Day!
#
tantek
ducks
#
tantek
gRegorLove: also did you miss the whole rant yesterday about “technical” vs. “non-technical” being used for tribalism and disempowerment?
#
gRegorLove
in IRC? I didn't see that, no
#
barnabywalters
Create/Hack day
#
barnabywalters
slashes make everything trendier
#
tantek
barnabywalters: like Designer/Model ?
#
barnabywalters
tantek: don’t know, not heard that before
#
tantek
ok for /comment-presentation markup, I’m basically ignoring the examples in /comment-examples that have massive amounts of markup
#
tantek
because I’m assuming if you’re using massive amounts of markup, you’re not actually be deliberate about good markup design
#
tantek
(with apologies to folks inheriting massive amounts of markup from various WordPress plugins etc.)
#
tantek
handcrafted++
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Loqi
handcrafted has 1 karma
#
GWG
tantek: Apology accepted. You've seen how much anguish I've gone through trying to get WordPress to change their markup
#
tantek
basically, I’m treating massive markup the way you might treat massively over-worded writing - bad writing
#
tantek
not as a “good example” to consider as part of best practices
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Zegnat
tommorris: are you implementing humans.html, or just musing?
#
barnabywalters
aaronpk: indieauth login with persona is suddenly not working for me. I’m getting “Auth failed: audience mismatch: domain mismatch” after successfully authenticating as barnaby@waterpigs.co.uk
#
tommorris
Zegnat: just suggesting that HTML would be preferable.
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barnabywalters
GPG login is also not working, although I haven’t changed anything. Any ideas?
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KevinMarks
noterlive is a kind of tweetstorm
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KevinMarks
I have thought about tweaking it a bit and having a tweetstorm version
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@johannesdachsel
Had a cracking weekend at @indiewebcamp – many thanks to @adactio and @Lottejackson for the hospitality. (twtr.io/11ZBR7om4Ww)
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Loqi
[mention] http://www.yourmom.io/2015/07/indiewebifying1/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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aaronpk
barnabywalters: weird! that sounds like a Persona error
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tantek_
aaronpk, re: why p-content: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12#t1436718865263
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aaronpk
barnabywalters: I'm not sure... persona login worked for me just now. you didn't end up on a subdomain of indieauth.com did you?
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barnabywalters
I don’t think so, I just logged in to indiewebcamp.com as usual
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aaronpk
huh
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barnabywalters
I know for sure that doing the exact same thing worked for me yesterday, because I logged into the iwc wiki then
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KevinMarks
tantek__: you can trim the examples to make illustrative ones
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aaronpk
i blame gremlins
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ShaneHudson_
kylewm voxpelli With regards to the config, my app is just to sit between a micropub client and an official (eg Twitter) client.
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ShaneHudson_
I had the same domain mismatch error.. eventually it seemed to fix itself
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tantek
should native comments get salmentioned?
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barnabywalters
h, weird
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tantek
aaronpk says yes
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tantek
then the question is, do you think someone writing a native comment on a blog post expects that it may get propagated to another site?
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tantek
I would expect not
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aaronpk
the way I see it is if I were to go fetch that page I would see the comment. webmention/salmention just makes that happen faster
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tantek
so that might be a surprise
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tantek
but maybe that’s ok?
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aaronpk
if you're saying the native comment should *not* be propagated upstream, then as a consumer of comments, I would have to add special handling to exclude them
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tantek
I’m not saying that, I’m asking questions to better understand the issues
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aaronpk
because as soon as I get the next webmention from a non-native comment, I would see both comments have been added
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Zegnat
If I am commenting to a reply (even if it uses native comments), and that reply is already being displayed as part of a conversation, I think I would expect my reply to also become part of the conversation. So no problem with it propogating.
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tantek
thanks Zegnat
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ShaneHudson_
Yeah I think I would be comfortable with it. Like Zegnat, it keeps the full conversation instead of branching it off
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Zegnat
Twitter also pulls replies-to-replies into the conversation, right? (Not 100% sure, but it seems to work that way whenever I look at Twitter.)
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tantek
based on feedback from aaronpk, ben_thatmustbeme, and kylewm I’m going to update /comment-presentation markup per my comments markup
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KevinMarks
hm. unmung.com taking 8 seconds to parse tantek.com seem excessive
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themostawful.com
created /User:Themostawful.com (+196) "Created page with "Creative writing major turned code writing monkey (the good kind) via self-teaching and Epicodus[http://epicodus.com]. I still like writing with words: themostawful.com[http://..."" (view diff)
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aaronpk
Jeena: http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol
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aaronparecki.com
edited /IndieAuthProtocol (-182) "/* 2. Endpoint Discovery */ removing note about fallback to indieauth.com, since that's not really part of the protocol" (view diff)
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tantek
KevinMarks indeed - I have 127 h-entrys there
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tantek
it’s a good stress test
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aaronparecki.com
edited /IndieAuthProtocol (+3) "/* 6. Token verification */ header is wrong" (view diff)
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tantek
KevinMarks perhaps use it to compare parse speed and see who wins Python vs. PHP :P
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Aaronparecki.com * moved [[indiecert]] to [[indiecert.net]]
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aaronparecki.com
edited /distributed-indieauth (+98) "/* Known public authorization servers */ add indiecert.net" (view diff)
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KevinMarks
mayeb this is html5lib vs libxml
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tantek
what was your comparison result and why do you assert that specific vs?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "your comparison result and why do you assert that specific vs" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=your+comparison+result+and+why+do+you+assert+that+specific+vs&summary=prompted+by+tantek+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-07-12%2Fline%2F1436731406468
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tantek
lol
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KevinMarks
kylewm suggetsed using libxml
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Zegnat
does libxml handle HTML well enough? I know some people who used XML tools on HTML first ran the HTML through tools like Tidy to make it XML compatible, and those second tools ad more overhead.
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tantek
Zegnat in general no. HTML5 has very specific parsing rules, and libxml is a far cry from them.
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tantek
And all attempts to simulate HTML parsing using Tidy etc. are pretty doomed given how nontrivial the HTML5 parsing algorithm is.
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tantek
alright, back to comments markup
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tantek
only one person is bothering with the empty in-reply-to suggestion
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KevinMarks
this is using beautifulsoup
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KevinMarks
and which sub-parser totry
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tantek
so I’m going to drop that. also, doesn’t seem to have been justified by any use-case, so dropping it is the default.
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tantek
if someone else comes up with a use-case for nested comments to have an explicit in-reply-to property, then we can re-open the discussion
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tantek
s/use-case/pragmatic real world use-case
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: if someone else comes up with a pragmatic real world use-case for nested comments to have an explicit in-reply-to property, then we can re-open the discussion
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KevinMarks
would parsed versions of the examples be useful?
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tantek
KevinMarks: yes
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tantek
so far not learning much new from the existing examples - still it was useful to at least try documenting them
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@dissolve333
Let's try this again #indieweb #SWAT0 (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/photo/2015/7/12/4/) https://twitter.com/dissolve333/status/620324721838559232/photo/1 (twtr.io/11ZFBcqFZ7C)
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ben_thatmustbeme
gah.. does not like multiple categories
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Aaronparecki.com * moved [[auth-brainstorming]] to [[obtaining-an-access-token]]: no longer brainstorming, and this is the most authoritative page on the flow of using an authorization server and token endpoint together
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aaronparecki.com
edited /simple-indieauth-example (+7) "rename link" (view diff)
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Aaronparecki.com * moved [[simple-indieauth-example]] to [[indieauth-for-login]]
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aaronparecki.com
edited /IndieAuth (-10) "remove totp since it requires pre-registration" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com/Changing_permalinks (+753) "De-duping Webmentions" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm making swat0 slightly more difficult for myself as i want to make sure i can tag two people
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gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com/Changing_permalinks (+196) "/* Problems */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /authorization-endpoint (+222) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /IndieAuthProtocol (-156) (view diff)
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Aaronparecki.com * moved [[indieauth-for-login]] to [[web-sign-in-protocol]]: this is actually web sign-in, not OAuth 2.0
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Web_sign-in (+29) "/* Details */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /web-sign-in-protocol (+33) "see also" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /obtaining-an-access-token () "(-1986) remove micropub example and link to [[micropub]] instead" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /2015/Demos (+66) "PDX start demos chat log link" (view diff)
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gRegorLove
Unfortunately Amanda and I need to leave about 3:30, so we won't be here for demos.
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aaronparecki.com
edited /IndieAuthProtocol (+25) "reformat to match [[obtaining-an-access-token]] and [[web-sign-in-protocol]]" (view diff)
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Aaronparecki.com * deleted "[[indieauth-for-login]]": Deleted to make way for move
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Aaronparecki.com * moved [[IndieAuthProtocol]] to [[indieauth-for-login]]: this is the real page describing indieauth for login (identification) rather than authorization
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KartikPrabhu
Loqi messages?
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu: gRegorLove left you a message 3 hours, 24 minutes ago: Yesterday's demos will be put on the wiki eventually at http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Demos. Same for today's hack day demos. Yesterday's demos are currently in the IRC logs but will be dumped to that page. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436721233516
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KartikPrabhu
thanks gRegorL
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KartikPrabhu
err gRegorLove
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gRegorLove
That was for seekr, just cced you
#
gRegorLove
gRegURL
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KartikPrabhu
np! how far away are we from Portland demo deadline?
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gRegorLove
4pm Pacific, if the wiki is still correct :)
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gRegorLove
Unfortunately I won't be here for it. We need to start driving back north
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KartikPrabhu
ok so that is about 1800 Chicago, time to get back to hfeed2atom
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gRegorLove
ooh, hfeed2atom++
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gRegorLove
Loqi
#
Loqi
is done
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gRegorLove
hfeed2atom++
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Loqi
hfeed2atom has 1 karma
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: yeah put the ++ first :)
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gRegorLove
pats Loqi
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aaronparecki.com
edited /token-endpoint (-93) "/* Access Token Request */ request does not include state (see http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6749#section-4.1.3)" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
about comments markup I use .p-comment .h-cite on my site
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aaronparecki.com
edited /obtaining-an-access-token (-12) "/* Token Endpoint */ don't need scope here" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /token-endpoint (+93) "actually do need state here because the token endpoint and auth endpoint are not on the same system" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Category:IndieAuth (+579) "categorize the pages" (view diff)
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misuba
ben_thatmustbeme: you in tune still?
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tantek.com
edited /comments-presentation (+826) "/* How to markup */ p-content instead of p-summary by default, and p-* instead of e-*, drop empty in-reply-to, answer pfefferle's issue, add a second comment, use u-author with a href, published time and permalink" (view diff)
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aaronpk
okay I just renamed/cleared up a bunch of the indieauth pages. hopefully this makes more sense to people
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aaronpk
http://indiewebcamp.com/Category:IndieAuth
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ben_thatmustbeme
misuba: huh?
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tantek
ok I think I’m done with a draft update of the “how to markup” for /comment-presentation
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misuba
hi - I am working on a user-colors plugin and am finally up to where I need to store stuff on a user? or is that not the approach?
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tantek
!tell aaronpk, ben_thatmustbeme, benwerd, kylewm for your review, updated how to markup comments when you put them on your posts: http://indiewebcamp.com/comment-presentation#How_to_markup
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk
I was tagged ina photo!
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 11 seconds ago: for your review, updated how to markup comments when you put them on your posts: http://indiewebcamp.com/comment-presentation#How_to_markup http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436734035118
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tantek
onto fixing style scoped
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ben_thatmustbeme
yay, fixed multiple tags in a post
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: tantek left you a message 44 seconds ago: for your review, updated how to markup comments when you put them on your posts: http://indiewebcamp.com/comment-presentation#How_to_markup http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436734035118
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bret
emmak_: http://momentjs.com/ is useful when the built in date wont do something you nee
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bret
d
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ShaneHudson_
Moment.js is brilliant :)
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misuba
ben_thatmustbeme: okay, I’m looking at the Bridgy plugin, and unless I’m wrong it seems like you can just jam things onto the User instance and it works out?
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misuba
dangerous business…
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ben_thatmustbeme
misuba: still not following. User instance of what?
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misuba
the User object for the logged-in user
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ben_thatmustbeme
of what software?
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ben_thatmustbeme
are you confusing me with benwerd of Known?
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misuba
sorry, talking about known. do i have the wrong address?
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misuba
i am, aren’t i!
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KartikPrabhu
hd the wrong folder structure for hfeed2atom so it didn't install :X
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misuba
i’ve been wondering about that. sorry to bug you :-)
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ben_thatmustbeme
benwerd isn't in here right now it looks like
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ben_thatmustbeme
no its okay, just really confused
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ben_thatmustbeme
also don't confuse him with benward, which is someone else also
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ShaneHudson_
That is a very easy mistake that one lol
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ben_thatmustbeme
there is a #knownchat misuba, might help
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misuba
oh yeah :-/
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Zegnat
well, ben_thatmustbeme, your username basically has you claim you must be anyone with the name ben
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ben_thatmustbeme
Zegnat: haha, i suppose it does
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misuba
right, you might as well be ‘anyandallbens’
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benward
I really need to tweak my "ben" alerts too. Or rename myself "ben_itsneverme" 😃
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GWG
Maybe it is.. Ben...that must be me, because I can't be someone not Ben
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ben_thatmustbeme
lol benward
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GWG
benward: How about, YouMeanTheOtherBen?
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Anonymous111
How did IndieWebCamp Go?
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tantek
it’s too cold in Picard :/
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tantek
thinking of reloating
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tantek
s/reloating/relocating
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: thinking of relocating
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GWG
tantek: Where to?
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ben_thatmustbeme
yay!
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ben_thatmustbeme
https://ben.thatmustbe.me/photo/2015/7/12/7/
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Loqi
woot
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tantek
GWG, a warmer room
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, aaronpk, ^^^
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme++ nice work!
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 94 karma
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GWG
Is this being recorded?
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ben_thatmustbeme
also that photo looks like aaronpk is super tired and tantek is rapping
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Crazy caption time?
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tantek
that sounds like a comment on the photo :P
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: did you use mobilepub to do the person-tagging?!?
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KevinMarks
I sem to getv lots of copies of that post in reader.kylewm.com
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, yes
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tantek
wow
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ben_thatmustbeme
all i do is enter urls for category
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tantek
http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://ben.thatmustbe.me/photo/2015/7/12/7/ - do you really want pronouns of “e”, “em”, and “eirs” ?!?
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ben_thatmustbeme
heh, no, wanted to test alternate values
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ben_thatmustbeme
and it makes it stick out really well
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ben_thatmustbeme
but i don't mind it
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@Bradamante
Watch me IndieWeb (twtr.io/11ZLpwCWaXG)
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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bret
https://webmention.herokuapp.com/
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aaronpk
wow I do look super tired
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aaronpk
sweet kevin commented on the photo.. time to use that as my realworld example
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: you got webmention for the comment right?
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ben_thatmustbeme
you had confirmed before that the salmention had worked
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ben_thatmustbeme
just double checking
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aaronpk
yeah I got the webmention, i'm just not interpreting it correctly right now
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aaronpk
so i got two notificaitons that said I was tagged in a photo
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aaronpk
at 2:07 and 2;15
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ben_thatmustbeme
ahh, sweet
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think thats the only piece thats left
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aaronpk
yup
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aaronpk
90 minutes and counting
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ben_thatmustbeme
no pressure
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aaronpk
:D
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@Bradamante
Watch me IndieWeb, take 2 (http://www.yourmom.io/2015/07/watch-me-indieweb2/) (twtr.io/11ZMpHa8rQo)
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@Bradamante
Watch me IndieWeb, take 2 redux (http://www.yourmom.io/2015/07/watch-me-indieweb-take-2-redux/) (twtr.io/11ZN3ht__Nw)
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tantek
now I just have to figure out how to create an id automatically for my posts
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tantek
as in id attribute
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: don't your shortlink ends are already an ID aren't they?
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/ends/paths/
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: tantek: don't your shortlink paths are already an ID aren't they?
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tantek
yeah that’s what I might end up copying
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tantek
but since shortness is not needed in this ID attribute - I may opt for something more readable/inspectable
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ben_thatmustbeme
don't know that its really needed to be inspectable
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ben_thatmustbeme
er readable
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tantek
it’s the other way around
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tantek
when in doubt, make things readable/inspectiable because it makes them easier to debug
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ben_thatmustbeme
fair enough
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: somehow we keep getting on opposite sides of the burden of proof issue
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tantek
not sure why that is happening
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ben_thatmustbeme
i like playing devils advocate
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats part of it i'm sure
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ben_thatmustbeme
besides you need contention to advance
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: entertainment rather than utility over time spent?
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ben_thatmustbeme
no, not entertainment, that would just be trolling
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tantek
frequent contention over re-examining well known/accepted default principles is not a useful expenditure of time
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ben_thatmustbeme
it is when its something i need proved to me
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tantek
“like playing devils advocate” sounded like entertinment
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ben_thatmustbeme
<- still learning
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: ah ok that’s quite fair
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tantek
are these new principles that you’re learning that you think you could capture somehow?
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tantek
and potentially re-use?
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ben_thatmustbeme
shall start trying to post those more often
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misuba
devil’s-advocate in its original sense was devoted to strengthening the opponent’s argument, which can totally be fun
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KevinMarks
adds caching instead of optimising
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tantek
misuba - thus socratic method is better
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ben_thatmustbeme
socraticmethod++
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Loqi
socraticmethod has 2 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
woah
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: something is wrong with your comment markup, kevin's profile URL ended up as the property of the h-cite
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ben_thatmustbeme
ack, i'll look in to it
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aaronpk
thx. I need to de-dupe on the comment URLs so that's gonna be important to get right :)
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KevinMarks
caching parsed tantek.com for the sake of demoability
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tantek
it’s going to change shortly :P
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KevinMarks
I'll add etag handling later
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aaronpk
"___ commented on a photo of you" vs "___ commented on a post you were tagged in"
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aaronpk
subtle difference
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aaronpk
or is "photo of you" not the same as "a photo you were tagged in"?
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aaronpk
actually sticking with "a photo you were tagged in"
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KevinMarks
"a photo ben says is of you"
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: try now. fixed on photo posts first
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: no other site says that tho
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme++ worked. but now kevin's name is gone
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 95 karma
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aaronpk
but that's fine, i'm gonna stick with URLs in my notifications anyway
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tantek
aaronpk, FB uses the phrasing “Alice tagged a photo of you” - when A person-tags B in a photo by C
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tantek
FB uses the phrasing “Alice added a photo of you” - when A person-tags B in a photo posted by A
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aaronpk
i'm past that step
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aaronpk
that's the first notification
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tantek
I’m listing them all for thoroughness
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tantek
and context
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aaronpk
instagram says "Alice took a photo of you"
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tantek
FB says “A, B, and C commented on D’s photo of you”
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aaronpk
which is funny when anomalily tags me in photos of things she buys because sometimes it looks like I am a glass of beer
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tantek
aaronpk - thus “____ commented on a photo of you” is prior art, and shorter, and reads better than “a photo you were tagged in”
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tantek
to answer your question
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tantek
why did you say sticking with (the longer, more awkwardly worded option) ?
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aaronpk
because the photo may not actually be *of* me
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aaronpk
and i can provide examples
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: fixed that too,
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snarfed
kylewm: posse comments to instagram? you got an app approved?!
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tantek
aaronpk - so? same thing happens on FB as well
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aaronpk
so I want my notification text to make sense for me
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tantek
I think you’re focusing on generalizing the text too much to handle an edge case, and thus making it *worse* for the common case
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aaronpk
and I don't like seeing "buyfocal took a photo of you" when anomalily posts a photo of a beer
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tantek
I keep wanting a name for that anti-pattern
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tantek
of optimizing for the 20% (or less)
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tantek
instead of the 80%
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aaronpk
no this is explicitly a user experience thing
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kylewm
snarfed: ...nope, just content to break the rules :P
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tantek
right, this is a ux thing
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Loqi
kylewm: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 2 minutes ago: for your review, updated how to markup comments when you put them on your posts: http://indiewebcamp.com/comment-presentation#How_to_markup http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-12/line/1436734035118
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tantek
keep the copy text simple
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tantek
and applicable to the dominant use-case
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aaronpk
i'm keeping it more correct as to what actually happened
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kylewm
snarfed: loook at the bad thing I did https://github.com/kylewm/redwind/blob/master/redwind/plugins/instagram.py#L196
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tantek
right, you’re getting distracted by an edge case in your dfn of “correct"
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aaronpk
i beg to differ. citation incoming
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aaronparecki.com * uploaded "[[File:photos-of-aaronpk.jpg]]"
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aaronpk
http://indiewebcamp.com/File:photos-of-aaronpk.jpg
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snarfed
guesses unofficial "API"?
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snarfed
looks
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snarfed
ahaha yes. nice!
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aaronpk
of the 15 photos there, 7 of them include me in them
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snarfed
gl maintaining it! :|
#