#indieweb

2015-07-24

#
atomicules
tantek: For POSSEing to Flickr I have only tested with private photos so far, but my set-up does work
# csarven joined the channel
#
atomicules
tantek: Long story, but I like film photography, but wife/daughters like ponies and the money tends to go on ponies instead of film
#
atomicules
tantek: So I have long gaps between getting stuff developed and uploaded
#
atomicules
tantek: I'll see if I can find another photo so I can have an example post for the wiki though.
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# KevinMarks__ joined the channel
# scor joined the channel
#
@tinokremer
LinkedIn wants you to stay within their Silo: http://www.networkworld.com/article/2952414/downloading-your-linkedin-contacts-can-now-take-all-weekend.html #indieweb #freeyourdata (twtr.io/11y0BDHS9CY)
# KevinMarks_ joined the channel
# KevinMarks__ joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# loic_m joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# scor joined the channel
# petermolnar joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# glennjones joined the channel
# lewisnyman joined the channel
# petermolnar joined the channel
# scor joined the channel
# Sebastien-L joined the channel
# Sebastien-L joined the channel
#
@johnnieingram
So, is Facebook comment retrieval totally broken for #IndieWeb at the moment, or am I missing something? (twtr.io/11y91jPR2WQ)
# Jihaisse joined the channel
#
@petermolnar
@TransNOC @kevinmarks unfortunately, it's not, but doable. Thankfully we have http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress/Security to sum it up, feel free to add tips ;) (twtr.io/11y9PDCLDSQ)
# scor joined the channel
# scor joined the channel
# Jihaisse joined the channel
# adactio joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
#
voxpelli
Is there any Micropub client today that publishes anything else than h-entries?
# LauraJ joined the channel
# squeakytoy joined the channel
#
@NCREDINBURGH
Don't Forget @NCREDINBURGH are hosting #IndieWebCamp in Edinburgh this weekend > http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twtr.io/11yCvtMMqdw)
# Jihaisse joined the channel
# KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
@0hjc
RT @NCREDINBURGH: Don't Forget @NCREDINBURGH are hosting #IndieWebCamp in Edinburgh this weekend > http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twtr.io/11yDEjB1V68)
# sivoais joined the channel
# KevinMarks_ joined the channel
# sivoais joined the channel
# KevinMarks__ joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# scor joined the channel
# frzn joined the channel
# jancborchardt joined the channel
#
petermolnar
good morning
#
petermolnar
had anyone seen this: https://thegrid.io/ ? any opinions?
# scor joined the channel
#
acegiak
petermolnar: creepy
#
petermolnar
buzzword & venture money imho
#
petermolnar
also, calling algorithms and learning patterns and AI is a bit of an overstatement
# hugoroyd joined the channel
#
rhiaro
I need to write something that pre-populates Quill from train website confirmation pages to post my travel plans
# LanceyWork joined the channel
# uranther joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# scor joined the channel
# KevinMarks_ joined the channel
# Pierre-O joined the channel
# KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
petermolnar.eu
edited /site-deaths (+341) "frontback.me" (view diff)
#
petermolnar.eu
edited /site-deaths (+4) "/* Any Day Now */" (view diff)
# benborges joined the channel
#
cweiske
rhiaro, your webmentions work :)
#
rhiaro
cweiske: sweet :)
#
rhiaro
did wonder
#
rhiaro
if you'd get that
#
cweiske
I got a mail
#
rhiaro
Nice when I'm just googling stuff and I find a site that receives webmentions by chance
#
rhiaro
makes bookmarking things that much more satisfying
#
cweiske
how do you get notified that the bookmarked link is linkback-enabled?
#
rhiaro
I don't, I just assumed you did
# j12t joined the channel
# MMN-o joined the channel
#
Loqi
[mention] http://davidpea.ch linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
# scor joined the channel
# scor joined the channel
#
KevinMarks
petermolnar: the grid is actually pretty crap at its job: https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/574630264485216256
#
@kevinmarks
@Eliservescent @t @benwerd @royabear AI does bad crops and contrast? #thegrid hmmm https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/574630264485216256/photo/1 (twtr.io/x1C0pahf4G)
# lewisnyman joined the channel
# loic_m joined the channel
# LauraJ joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# CaptainCalliope joined the channel
# lewisnyman_ joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# Pierre-O joined the channel
# petermolnar joined the channel
#
@Steven_Mitch
RT @NCREDINBURGH: Don't Forget @NCREDINBURGH are hosting #IndieWebCamp in Edinburgh this weekend > http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twtr.io/11y_qFyA5SQ)
# snarfed joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
anyone have any thoughts on a way to publicly post a join to a group
#
ben_thatmustbeme
u-join-of?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
assuming the group is at a specific URL
#
rhiaro
oh yay, new post types
#
Loqi
woot
#
rhiaro
haven't thought about groups yet though
#
ben_thatmustbeme
just starting to build up ideas on it
#
rhiaro
could be similar to rsvping to events
#
rhiaro
given that you could invite to groups, too
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i was thinking that for invites indeed
#
ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, hadn't considered the "No" to an invite to a group
#
ben_thatmustbeme
well then there are two cases for joining a group, respond yes to an invite, or just directly join
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i would prefer they be the same markup, or rather they could overlap
#
ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, i don't see anything on responding to an event invitation
#
@helloanselm
See this list of site deaths. The internet forgets: https://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twtr.io/11yanF_PkCY)
#
rhiaro
I've seen responding to event invitaitons somewhere
#
voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: rel=member-of + a webmention? :)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
ahh n to create an RSVP post in reply to the event post (and in reply to the invitation post!),
#
rhiaro
That sounds about right
#
voxpelli
ah, see now that your pointing at the activity of joining rather than the state of being a member
#
ben_thatmustbeme
voxpelli: hmm, that doesn't work well if you wanted a closed group
#
voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: private webmention?
#
rhiaro
I'd just rsvp to the group URL
#
ben_thatmustbeme
voxpelli: not a private group, a closed group
#
rhiaro
Wouldn't it work the same as private any kind of posts?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
so its a publicly readable group, but you want to "join" but then you have to be approved
#
voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: will be hard to stop anyone from pretending to be part of your group?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
just saying member-of is presuptuous to me
#
voxpelli
so the receiver would have to moderate it
#
voxpelli
well, all XFN relations are purely claimns – I can add a rel-me on my profile claiming that I am you :) But without a link back to my profile no one will believe me
#
ben_thatmustbeme
voxpelli: certainly, nothing to stop people from claiming to be part of the group, but its what is listed for members on the group that is the true "members"
# wolftune joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
hmmm
#
voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: so just like relmeauth you check that the link is bidirectional?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i suppose thats pretty simple, and doesn't need to introduce any new microformats
#
voxpelli
(not sure if rel=member-of is actually the right wording though)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
the question then becomes leaving a group
#
ben_thatmustbeme
thats why i think the u-join-of / u-leave-of idea might work better
#
@MarkHummel3
RT @healthbankcoop: . @EricTopol on democratization of medicine, @healthbankcoop. http://www.vascularthinktank.com/#!Exclusive-Interview-Dr-Eric-Topol-on-the-Democratization-of-Medicine/c193z/559feb620cf2ba155ecd018d via @marcelsalathe #ownyourdata ht… (twtr.io/11ybJHUqb9b)
#
voxpelli
WebMentions support deletions
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i figured the group itself could be an h-feed but no author tag, instead a list of member h-cards
#
voxpelli
I feel that membership is a state and should be expressed as a property of someones profile rather than as an activity in someones feed
#
ben_thatmustbeme
webmention to the h-feed (u-category of the h-feef url) and it will get posted to the group (really just syndication to the group)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
voxpelli: creating a post doesn't necessitate posting to a feed
#
voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: then it's impossible for anyone who hasn't historically followed the feed to know if someone is a member or not and impossible to verify if the group's claim that I'm a member of them is actually true?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, good point, group owner can add whoever they want
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i suppose thats more like a twitter list then
#
voxpelli
it's a bit like followers vs friends – a one-directional "rel-friend" is a follow while a bi-directional is a friend-relation
#
rhiaro
I think both state and property are useful. You might want to keep track of when you join/leave groups. Which is also why just deleting the original join post isn't necessarily useful. Unless you create a deelte post..
#
rhiaro
s/deelte/datestamped delete
#
Loqi
rhiaro meant to say: I think both state and property are useful. You might want to keep track of when you join/leave groups. Which is also why just deleting the original join post isn't necessarily useful. Unless you create a datestamped delete post..
#
voxpelli
rhiaro: absolutely! representing a join/leave as an activity is a good thing as well
#
voxpelli
and I guess that's what eg. Facebook does – list groups you're a member of on your profile + announces that you join in your feed
#
ben_thatmustbeme
but voxpelli is correct, it would be nice to have the bidirectional relationship
#
ben_thatmustbeme
but i would not want to publicly list all groups i'm part of on my profile. indeed, i don't do that on FB
#
@orKoN
RT @helloanselm: See this list of site deaths. The internet forgets: https://indiewebcamp.com/site_deaths (twtr.io/11ybq_zzgWf)
#
voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: private-webmentions could show a private version of your profile to the ones you want to reveal the membership to?
#
Loqi
[mention] https://petermolnar.eu/r/transnoc-kevinmarks-unfortunately-its-not linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress/Security (webmention)
#
voxpelli
(I'm partly guessing, haven't looked that hard into the proposal for private-webmentions yet)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, i'm trying to keep totally private out of it for now, just to keep simplicity. was trying to account for various public types though
#
ben_thatmustbeme
like being part of a group and not publishing it (hidden URL), and approval to join a group, etc
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i may already be considering too much and perhaps we should just get joining / leaving a totally public group working, build from there
#
ben_thatmustbeme
so, the other question I had was about comments on posts in the group. if someone outside the group comments on a post in the group (assuming the salmention comes up to the group) should it be shown as a response to the post from within the group h-feed or not?
#
voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: that's up to each implementation I think
#
@petermolnar
@johnnieingram did you receive my webmention from https://petermolnar.eu/r/re-on-returning-to-the-belly-of-the-beast for your entry? (twtr.io/11ycL_Q9zbY)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i think it might be odd only showing replies from those in the group. the reply conversation could get really confusing otherwise
#
ben_thatmustbeme
ideally if its a group post, you only accept replies from those in the group
#
ben_thatmustbeme
but again, up to the implementation i suppose
#
voxpelli
I would probably accept and save all of the data and then experiment with the presentation of it
# fourtonfish joined the channel
# keroberos joined the channel
#
Kongaloosh
Question: is there a good example of posts with image collections, or albums?
# Garbee joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# chalettu joined the channel
#
@NthDesignMktg
RT @NCREDINBURGH: Don't Forget @NCREDINBURGH are hosting #IndieWebCamp in Edinburgh this weekend > http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twtr.io/11yeioVVXj1)
#
@papapelz
Gibts hier wen, die/der mir mit #indieweb, #ownyourgram und #wordpress weiterhelfen kann? #followerpower (twtr.io/11yen490eAw)
#
@fruehesvogerl
RT @papapelz: Gibts hier wen, die/der mir mit #indieweb, #ownyourgram und #wordpress weiterhelfen kann? #followerpower (twtr.io/11yfFxhtt8G)
# lewisnyman joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# shiflett joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# tantek joined the channel
# lewisnyman joined the channel
#
@MorrisPelzel
New #diigo bookmark: IndieWebify.Me--a guide to getting you on the IndieWeb http://indiewebify.me/#send-webmentions (twtr.io/11yjLRWnS0Y)
# lewisnyman_ joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# mlncn joined the channel
# lewisnyman joined the channel
#
GWG
petermolnar: I saw your audio thing. Why CPT?
#
petermolnar
cpt?
#
tantek
what is thegrid.io?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "thegrid.io" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100F
#
tantek
what is CPT?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "CPT" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100G
# lewisnyman joined the channel
#
tantek
reads logs
#
ben_thatmustbeme
is sure tantek will have input on discussion from early
#
aaronpk
hehe
#
ben_thatmustbeme
s/early/earlier
#
Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: is sure tantek will have input on discussion from earlier
#
tantek
hey ben_thatmustbeme I suggest before working on groups that you try getting /event and /rsvp posting working
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i have rsvp working, but not events
#
tantek
doing so will help you explore many related issues to groups
#
tantek
since an event is kind of like an ephemeral group
#
tantek
and in some cases, the comment threads / discussions on an event keep going long after the event itself, thus acting effectively like a group
#
tantek
and events have /invitation too
#
tantek
so I'd say get those three working - /event /RSVP /invitation and you'll be most of the way towards understanding how groups could work
#
ben_thatmustbeme
probably a good idea
#
tantek
since those are "solved" problems
#
aaronpk
interesting how much overlap there is!
#
ben_thatmustbeme
well i understand how they work, just haven't coded them yet
#
GWG
CPT is short for Custom Post Type, a confusingly named WordPress feature.
#
loqi.me
created /CPT (+101) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-24/line/1437753577221 and dfn added by GWG" (view diff)
#
Loqi
ok
#
tantek
aaronpk - I'm always looking for the simpler solved thing
#
ben_thatmustbeme
though i'm sure more understanding will come with coding
# tilgovi joined the channel
#
petermolnar
custom post -> because it's special enought to be a custom post, in my opinion; I also need custom taxonomy for a, sanity b, easy search options
#
petermolnar
but to be honest, I'll probably drop that project; I've added a last.fm import to it and loaded my last.fm zip without realizing I'm just about to add 4k album, 1k artist and ~10k entries
#
aaronpk
haha that's gonna be great petermolnar
#
Loqi
hehe
#
tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: more understanding will come with building a functional UX flow for yourself
#
GWG
petermolnar: I might pick up some of the code.
#
tantek
more so than the actual coding
#
petermolnar
GWG by the way, I had to rename it from audioscrobbler; I wasn't aware that 'audioscrobbler' is a trademarked name
#
@2kindchaos_mo
RT @papapelz: Gibts hier wen, die/der mir mit #indieweb, #ownyourgram und #wordpress weiterhelfen kann? #followerpower (twtr.io/11ymsFtn12x)
# Pierre-O joined the channel
#
GWG
petermolnar: I don't scrobble really. So I will probably not rush
#
aaronpk
i can't wait til I can scrobble
#
GWG
aaronpk: Why?
#
tantek
is it in your itches?
#
petermolnar
off to home, be back later
#
aaronpk
cause i have a ton of data on two different last.fm accounts and I want them in one place
#
GWG
aaronpk: Oh.
#
tantek
anyway - I would avoid any attempt at pre-designing "group" posts / markup until you have at least a skeleton UX flow figured out *and documented* (e.g. with sketches / screenshots)
#
tantek
otherwise you're likely to design markup / details for something which is frankly not very user friendly
#
tantek
so you'll figure out lots of logical details, for something that doesn't actually provide good user functionality
#
GWG
I am trying to figure out how to mix implied and explicit types in a system
#
tantek
GWG, rhiaro had some good thoughts on that
#
tantek
mostly about original posts vs. /responses
#
GWG
tantek: Where can I find those thoughts?
#
tantek
I'm not sure if she captured them anywhere beyond IRC - though I think she blogged a bit about it a while ago
#
GWG
I have to work within an existing structure, which can be challenging
#
rhiaro
possibly rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/post-and-activity-types
#
tantek
that's the one
#
rhiaro
though my thinking has moved on a bit since
#
tantek
keeps reading this morning's log and sees a bit too much plumbing-focused discussion :P
#
aaronpk
that's funny, that's what happened with my post about post types
#
GWG
That is why I am looking at Micropub.
#
tantek
look I know it's tempting to jump to how to markup - because that's the *easier* problem to solve. but you'll likely end up with a poor solution overall.
#
aaronpk
this one from 2012 http://aaron.pk/a4La1
#
tantek
it's harder, but you absolutely must focus on first figuring out good UX flow, and prototyping, *before* you jump into markup nitty gritty
#
aaronpk
hey looks like that's when I was starting to think about micropub!
#
tantek
it's almost analogous to bikeshedding - that is, it's much easier to argue about the paint color, than how to build the reactor, so people debate the paint color first
#
aaronpk
wow none of my bike sheds have a reactor in them!
#
GWG
tantek: In my cser, I am building an addition on my house.
#
tantek
voxpelli++ for bring the conversation back to the UX of "what eg. Facebook does"
#
Loqi
voxpelli has 35 karma
#
ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: when you require at least two people its good to at least get some ideas out on the subject though
#
tantek
aaronpk - the point is the bikeshed is supposed to be *an addition* to the reactor
#
ben_thatmustbeme
thats more what that was about this morning, its not like we are spending a lot of time on it
#
tantek
and yes, by obsessing over a bike shed design, you end up never actually building the reactor
#
GWG
And I have to deal with the local landmark preservation board
#
aaronpk
GWG++
#
Loqi
GWG has 112 karma
#
aaronpk
lol
#
tantek
also I agree with figuring out private webmentions with the *simple* use-case of private messaging
#
tantek
get a bunch of those working, then we can talk about how private webmentions could be used as a building block for other things
#
tantek
Kongaloosh: re: "good example of posts with image collections, or albums?" did you see /collection ?
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (+136) "/* itching */" (view diff)
#
tantek
is caught up on logs
#
tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: the other thing about groups - by its fundamental nature, to be useful you're going to have to convince A BUNCH of other people to implement it
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i know
#
tantek
since that's the case for groups, that makes /event /RSVP /invitation a much better starting point to understand that phenomenon
#
tantek
since a BUNCH of people have already implemented /event /RSVP /invitation
#
ben_thatmustbeme
thats why i wanted to look at other similar ideas
#
tantek
note that the FB "invite friends" UI for an event even shows previous events as if they were groups from which to choose people to invite from!
#
ben_thatmustbeme
also, the reason for starting with public (maybe even auto-joined) groups. put no barier to joining the group or even any implementation needed on those that want to "join"
#
tantek
so the whole event -> group thing is very much true in practice
#
tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: so start with public events
#
tantek
with no barrier to RSVPing or inviting others to them
#
tantek
it really is a very similar UX flow
#
tantek
but one that's much more implemented and understood
#
tantek
heck you could even hack an event *into* a group by making it last e.g. for years (dt-start to dt-end)
# j12t joined the channel
# ttepasse joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
heh
#
rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (-97) "/* Apprentices */" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, with events in FB newest posts lists first don't they?
#
rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (-1) "/* Maybes */" (view diff)
#
rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+0) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
# benwerd joined the channel
# tilgovi joined the channel
# wolftune joined the channel
#
@bass4TheBeatDlz
@TheIndieAuth @TheBeatDolls Thx IndieAuth!!!! (twtr.io/11yqwhbJNnU)
# tilgovi joined the channel
# gRegorLove joined the channel
# ttepasse joined the channel
#
@t
Social Web Acid Test v0 #SWAT0 @IndieWebCamp 2015 demo video: https://www.youtube.com/ 3 people/sites/implementations. (ttk.me t4cL1) (twtr.io/11yrAWc84uQ)
#
@benwerd
Edinburgh: I highly recommend #indiewebcamp. Great ideas, great people. You should go: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh #techmeetup #edinburgh (twtr.io/11ysAe0ZTtb)
#
Loqi
[mention] Ben Werdmüller posted 'Edinburgh: I highly recommend #indiewebcamp. Great ideas, great people. You should go: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh #techmeetup #e...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (http://werd.io/2015/edinburgh-i-highly-recommend-indiewebcamp-great-ideas-great-people-you)
#
@Tim_beta_2015
RT @t: Social Web Acid Test v0 #SWAT0 @IndieWebCamp 2015 demo video: https://www.youtube.com/ 3 people/sites/implementations. (ttk.me t4cL1) (twtr.io/11ysMth4j14)
#
@nitot
RT @benwerd: Edinburgh: I highly recommend #indiewebcamp. Great ideas, great people. You should go: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh #techmeetup #edi… (twtr.io/11ysSw6yFxs)
# lewisnyman joined the channel
# ttepasse joined the channel
# greenhac joined the channel
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Tristan Nitot retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/nitot/status/624628052211945472)
# j12t joined the channel
#
voxpelli
aaronpk: how does one disable an OwnYourGram stream? I might have created some now during testing that I might want to disable
#
aaronpk
ooh
#
aaronpk
i think if you un-authorize the app in the instagram account it will stop
#
aaronpk
note that one instagram account only sends to one micropub endpoint, so if you've been using the same IG account it's only sending it to the last micropub endpoint you signed in with
#
voxpelli
ah, good, then that solves it :)
#
voxpelli
aaronpk: also think I pinpointed the problem I had: I was sneaky and used a not-yet-live domain name for my test blog – with a Micropub discovery elsewhere – as a last resort I moved to a real domain name and now it works
#
voxpelli
not sure why that would make a difference
#
aaronpk
not-yet-live domain as in there was no DNS for it?
#
voxpelli
yes
#
aaronpk
so a micropub client wouldn't be able to find it
#
voxpelli
well, I used a different site for the discovery
#
tantek
voxpelli: what is ownyourauth?
#
aaronpk
i'm not sure i follow
#
voxpelli
aaronpk: basic conclusion: I did hackish stuff that broke something within OwnYourGram despite it working with eg. Quill :)
#
tantek
what is ownyourauth?
# ttepasse joined the channel
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "ownyourauth" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100H
#
tantek
wat
#
voxpelli
tantek: OwnYourAuth?
#
aaronpk
first i've heard of this OwnYourAuth thing
#
tantek
ownyourauth is /FreeMyOAuth
#
loqi.me
created /ownyourauth (+24) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-24/line/1437758778703 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi
ok
#
tantek
that's what I meant
#
aaronpk
voxpelli: strange, yeah i'm not sure why it would work with Quill but not OwnYourGram
#
aaronpk
wow so many broken images
#
tantek
I wonder if there is a way with Youtube embeds to specify the "closing" frame too - like even just telling it to redisplay the poster frame when its done playing
#
tantek
e.g. in the iframe embed of youtube on my site
#
tantek
when someone plays it inline right there on my site, I feel like I should have some control over that, as the person doing the embedding
# benwerd joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
#
@AutismU
@nickreeldx @danmunro We made you the records custodian on our portal. #democratizehealth #ownyourdata #hitsm (twtr.io/11yukcEn5Xj)
#
rhiaro
Quick, anyone else have a pet on the indieweb?
#
rhiaro
We've decided we should name the rooms Dora, Tigo and ...
#
aaronpk
:D
#
rhiaro
Well, ping me if anyone has any ideas
#
aaronpk
i think I've seen ben_thatmustbeme's dog on a livestream before
#
rhiaro
That's promising
#
tantek
should I make a site for my roomba?
#
tantek
does Loqi have its own site?
#
rhiaro
does your roomba have a cute 4 letter name?
#
rhiaro
oh, loqi!
#
rhiaro
Perfect
#
aaronpk
http://loqi.me
#
Loqi
dude
#
tbrb
woo!
#
tantek
welcome tbrb!
#
tbrb
Hi
#
aaronpk
haha they are all 4-letter names, that's great
#
rhiaro
(tbrb is helping me iron out IWCEdi right now)
#
aaronpk
if I get another pet its name is going to be Miso
#
aaronpk
(do re mi so... get it?) tehehe
#
tantek
sorry if I get a pet cat it will have a 3 letter nae
#
tantek
s/nae/name
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: sorry if I get a pet cat it will have a 3 letter name
#
tantek
https://twitter.com/t/status/606265907233456130
#
@t
If I ever get a cat I'm naming it str. (ttk.me t4bV1) (twtr.io/109Z2SYhHoq)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
eh? whats up?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
hah, str, cat
#
ben_thatmustbeme
not tac?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: my dog's name is Pause
#
ben_thatmustbeme
they should make a .woof and .meow TLD
# Pierre-O joined the channel
#
rhiaro
ben_thatmsutbeme: if Pause gets a blog in the next half hour, we'll name a room at IWCEdi after him
#
jgraham909.com
edited /2015/Guest_List (-2) "change personal url for Jeff Graham" (view diff)
#
aaronpk
rhiaro: maybe you can name the break room after ben's dog
#
rhiaro
That's perfect.
#
rhiaro
There's not really an explicit break room, but I could stick a 'Pause' sign on the coffee machine :)
#
@papapelz
@sys_adm_ama Ich würd ja gern diesen <link href indieauth bla> auf papapelz.de draufnehmen, wenn ich wüsste, wo das hin muss. #startseite (twtr.io/11ywBc4a3k4)
#
rhiaro
aaronpk: preferred photo for Dora's room sign?
#
aaronpk
https://indiewebcat.com/notes/2015/06/24/1/soupcat or https://indiewebcat.com/notes/2015/04/04/5/selfie
#
rhiaro
hehe. adorable.
#
aaronpk
whoa, where did this "1 like" come from? https://twitter.com/MicropubInfo/status/624637159954210816
#
@MicropubInfo
1 like: Just made a email-to-Micropub gateway, built into OwnYourGram! If you want to try it out, go to OwnYou... https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/23/1/&ct=ga&cd=CAIyHDNlNjg4ODQzODIxNzA0ZmU6Y28udWs6ZW46R0I&usg=AFQjCNE44WBwOQ8Jvf_DtpzWOy57gMAD-g&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twtr.io/11yvh8jri0G)
# jciv joined the channel
# _6a68 joined the channel
#
_6a68
anybody know of indie web projects that POSSE personal email?
#
Loqi
_6a68: barnabywalters left you a message on 9/25 at 12:29pm: Re: science captchas, for me it’d have to be this question: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_water_is_dissovled_in_water_what_is_the_water
#
_6a68
thanks, Loqi
#
@macleodan
I'm going to the #IndieWeb Camp in Edinburgh tomorrow. (twtr.io/11yy7NaYi1L)
#
indiewebcat.com
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+311) "/* Remote Participants */" (view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+350) "/* Remote Participants */ add myself, sort" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
haha, rhiaro excellent
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i do plan to get pause his own blog
#
ben_thatmustbeme
as well as my daughters, but they will be just syndications of posts to my site
#
ben_thatmustbeme
its one of the reasons i want to get micropub chaining working well
#
ben_thatmustbeme
just adds as a syndicate-to option in all my posting interfaces
#
tantek
_6a68: see http://indiewebcamp.com/email#IndieWeb_Examples
# j12t joined the channel
#
KevinMarks
I ave a dog named Abby if you want 4 letter pets
#
KevinMarks
(also Katie, Phoebe and Ceophie dogs )
#
KevinMarks
she doesn't have an indieweb presence though
#
kylewm
cat's name is Junebug but we call her June, does that count?
#
KevinMarks
early indieauth-like comment form Dare: http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/2007/08/13/AProposalForSocialNetworkInteroperabilityViaOpenID.aspx
#
kylewm
I thought fiatjaf had a email to webmention gateway of some sort
#
kylewm
what is Questo.email
#
Loqi
questo.email is an indieweb/email bridge https://indiewebcamp.com/questo.email
# frzn joined the channel
#
KevinMarks
so, micropub currently says use indieauth
#
kylewm
I could give them a proxy homepage to login to micropub with... like https://silo.pub/username.tumblr.com
#
kylewm
that's what snarfed recommended for silo.pub to twitter
#
KevinMarks
right
#
KevinMarks
that does reentralize
#
KevinMarks
s/reentralize/recentralize/
#
Loqi
KevinMarks meant to say: that does recentralize
#
kylewm
fastmail does a thing where you can use them as your nameserver (easy), or they give you the DKIM SPF stuff to set up on your own nameserver (more difficult)
#
kylewm
it could be like that
#
KevinMarks
it's like what aaronpk did ro slack
#
KevinMarks
if you implement both and explain why, then you're effectively AB testing it
#
KevinMarks
the other thing is that a micropub client could ask for your URL, and if they put in a silo.pub supported one, redirect them to you
#
voxpelli
if you we're to not require discovery of authentication and micropub endpoint at the same place then the two would get more separated
#
voxpelli
so there would be two steps – one for where you want to post, silo.pub, and another of who you are, that can be done through eg. IndieAuth
#
aaronpk
That sounds related to my thoughts on the token endpoint telling the client which Micropub endpoint to use
#
voxpelli
that was what I suggested for multiple micropub endpoints per user
#
voxpelli
aaronpk: yeah, haven't gotten around to actually read your proposal on the wiki yet :P
#
KevinMarks
it fits in with the micropub chaining too - if you want an instagram-like fanout model
#
voxpelli
aaronpk's thoughts: http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub-brainstorming#Multiple_Micropub_Endpoints
#
KevinMarks
at the moment that needs to be supported by the micropub server
#
voxpelli
is the chaining ideas documented anywhere?
#
KevinMarks
so you could have micropub middleware that brokers that
#
KevinMarks
micropublican
#
aaronpk
This also sounds like the oft-conflated authorization vs identification problem
#
aaronpk
Ultimately a Micropub client shouldn't need to know who a user is, it just needs an access token and Micropub endpoint
#
@kevinmarks
@hover you should have a look at the indieweb plugins - a good way to connect to other social media sites and silos (twtr.io/11z2_oiPUvU)
#
KevinMarks
right, but at the moment it has to do an indieauth handshake to get one
# wolftune joined the channel
#
kylewm
ideally, they would go to Quill, put in their tumblr site, get redirected to a tumblr page like "Do you want to authorize silo.pub to post to this site", they'd say yes, and off you go
#
kylewm
that should be relatively easy to implement and would not require the rel=me step
#
voxpelli
kylewm: that would require special handling by Quill, no?
#
kylewm
nah I don't think so, not if their authorization_endpoint was silo.pub -- it would transparently redirect to tumblr's oauth page
#
KevinMarks
so you'd still need to put micropub and indieauth links in, but not rel-me's
#
kylewm
yes
#
KevinMarks
saves a vsible edit and an auth step
#
Jeena
my website now also supports micropub posting of photos, weeee!
#
Jeena
but I only tested it with my own implementation I hacked into Quill, so we'll see if it works with other implementations too
#
KevinMarks
the more subversive answer is that Quill (or whatever) detects a tumblr/blogger/wp url and redirects them through silo.pub/blah
#
aaronpk
oy
#
KevinMarks
the fully lazy way is that you always do silo.pub/{url} and it routes them back to real indieauth
# petermolnar joined the channel
#
kodfabrik.se
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+1259) "documented alternative possible flow for multiple micropub endpoints" (view diff)
#
voxpelli
aaronpk: not sure if that's the proper way to continue the brainstorm there – I guess I ideally should have left some feedback on your proposed spec as well, will try to do that soon as well
#
rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+162) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
#
voxpelli
kylewm: true, that should be doable
#
voxpelli
probably breaks a couple of ToS:es but anyhow :)
#
kylewm
hehehe
#
voxpelli
kylewm: also – have any feedback on that wiki brainstorm?
#
kylewm
voxpelli: on my queue of things to read through but I can't just now :/
#
KevinMarks
here's abby: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/abby-gamer-poodle
#
gRegorLove
ben_thatmustbeme: Are you still using /Vouch? Do you maintain a list of referers that you don't check, like search engines, t.co, etc?
#
gRegorLove
I don't have /Vouch fully working, but the processing of referers is running. Wondering the best way of not listing those as vouches.
#
KevinMarks
http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/abby-ponders-which-indieweb-tool-to-host-her-website
#
aaronpk
voxpelli: i'm not sure i follow your thoughts exactly
#
aaronpk
i might need to see a little more about the interactions between the different compoenets
#
rhiaro
KevinMarks, Abby and Tigo should hang out https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_banners/548372474/1414355747/1500x500
#
aaronpk
like where does the token come from? and how is it verified?
#
Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aaronparecki.com * uploaded "[[File:choose-micropub-endpoint-mockup.png]]"
#
voxpelli
aaronpk: the token comes from the IndieAuth endpoint and is verified by the Micropub endpoint just like before – the discovery is just separated
#
voxpelli
all Micropub endpoints already knows how to verify acceptable IndieAuth tokens
# davemenninger joined the channel
#
aaronpk
oh here's another thought
#
aaronpk
what if the client discovers the authorization endpoint by asking the micropub endpoint where it is
#
kylewm
KevinMarks: you need to update your OpenSSL, it looks like you are vulnerable to POODLE
#
kylewm
(hopes no one already made that joke)
#
voxpelli
aaronpk: that wouldn't work very well for multiauthor blogs
#
voxpelli
and also makes identity discoverable from the micropub endpoint again
#
aaronpk
hm, i think it just means the multiauthor blog would need to implement its own auth endpoint
#
aaronpk
i thought that's what we were going for?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
gRegorLove: no, i check them all, i really should maintain such a list
#
ben_thatmustbeme
and yes, i'm still using it
# tvn joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
if anyone is on my whitelist they get through immediately though, i don't even store the vouch they send
#
gRegorLove
Cool. I'll use you as a test once I get it working :)
#
aaronpk
gRegorLove: I verify vouches too
# snarfed joined the channel
#
aaronpk
the comment will show "vouched for by ___"
#
voxpelli
aaronpk: if the auth endpoint can't be found at the site where you want to publish to as it needs to be today, then why not ask the user to present authorization itself?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i can remove you from my whitelist if you like gRegorLove, for testing perposes
#
aaronpk
voxpelli: i guess i don't follow the user flow in that case
#
ben_thatmustbeme
https://ben.thatmustbe.me/whitelist
#
gRegorLove
Sure, though it will be a while until I'm ready, probably.
#
voxpelli
aaronpk: if I invite you to guestblog at a blog of mine, then you go to a micropub client and say that you want to publish to it and then gives an authorization using your own site
#
ben_thatmustbeme
okay, just let me know
#
gRegorLove
I'll ping you when I'm ready to test
#
aaronpk
i think there are two different problems people are trying to solve here
#
aaronpk
1) a user has their own identity, like aaronparecki.com, and wants to publish to multiple different locations (guest blogs, whatever)
#
aaronpk
2) a user has a micropub endpoint (like silo.pub) and doesn't care about the identity
#
KevinMarks
well, more that they have a silo identity
#
KevinMarks
twitter, blogger, tumblr, wp etc
#
voxpelli
true – the solution kylewm suggested solves 2, the comments I gave on the wiki solves 1
#
aaronpk
there are really two questions: who are you? and where do you want to post?
#
voxpelli
yes, or rather: how do you want to provide authorization? and where do you want to post using them? So we avoid that identity issue
#
voxpelli
identity issue as in authentication != authorization
#
aaronpk
yes except from the user's POV they are identifying themselves
#
aaronpk
and in order to provide authorization, they do have to provide authentication anyway (authenticating at the authorization endpoint)
#
aaronpk
and any micropub endpoint is going to want to know *who* is making the post, in order to add authorship info to the entry
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
KevinMarks
lol https://twitter.com/HazelMcKendrick/status/624605558310473728
#
@HazelMcKendrick
I know it's wrong to make fun of web development but sometimes it makes that really fucking hard https://twitter.com/niccaluim/status/624261446550032384/photo/1 (twtr.io/11yjQomRXaU)
#
@gRegorLove
@johannesdachsel @justb3a I finally released the ProcessWire Webmention module. Would love your feedback. https://processwire.com/talk/topic/10486-module-webmention/ #indieweb (twtr.io/11z9aLYAb14)
#
aaronpk
best response https://twitter.com/0x0961h/status/624509586964414465
#
@0x0961h
@davebarr @niccaluim Like in Hey, I just call()ed you And this is crazy But here's my browser So playMeMaybe() (twtr.io/11yA7opyCuR)
#
gRegorLove
Haha
#
KartikPrabhu
is rading back logs
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
Kongaloosh: does this count as an image collection, https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/walk-work ?
# chreekat joined the channel
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Cσϻϻλπdσ Ƙιττψ replied '@benwerd I wish American's would stop trying to export their authoritarian convos and expos across the sea. Seriously, just no. Stop it.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/InvisibleJimBSH/status/624681596919128064)
#
KartikPrabhu
err what?
# loic_m joined the channel
# tilgovi joined the channel
# tvn joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
How's the raiding, KartikPrabhu? ;)
#
KartikPrabhu
finished rading the logs :P
#
Kongaloosh
KartikPrabhu: indeed, that's just what I was looking for!
#
Kongaloosh
cheers!
#
KartikPrabhu
Kongaloosh: :) I just publish them as usual HTML with a u-photo on each photo/image
#
Kongaloosh
cool
#
Kongaloosh
how do you store them?
#
KartikPrabhu
right now they are on Google Photos because I haven't figured out a good photo hosting solution
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Ben Werdmüller replied '@invisiblejimbsh Huh?' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/624685717394853888)
#
KartikPrabhu
but I really want to self-host them
#
Kongaloosh
ah
#
Kongaloosh
good to know
#
KartikPrabhu
also Google Photos allows for getting different sizes of the image by changing a URL parameter, which I use to "responsive images"
#
Kongaloosh
ahhh
#
Kongaloosh
I'm self-hosting right now
#
Kongaloosh
but that may be a good backup
#
KartikPrabhu
nice. any particular library you use or just store them as files?
#
Kongaloosh
right now I just dump them in drive
#
Kongaloosh
I just store them as files
#
Kongaloosh
with the same name as their .md post parent
#
KartikPrabhu
cool! I do that with static images, but for photos I'd like to have the query by size feature
#
Kongaloosh
yes, which seems sensible
#
Kongaloosh
it's a bit of a trade off
#
Kongaloosh
right now photos have to be their own post
#
Kongaloosh
and 'albums' are collections of posts with associated images
#
KartikPrabhu
that is a good way to do it. It would also be nice to have a bulk uploading UI to an album, then the post could simply collect all images from an album and display them
#
KartikPrabhu
all this is in my future itch-list for photo :)
# atomicules joined the channel
#
snarfed
so, i dug a bit into all the FB API parts that got cut in 2.4 and will disappear in october (read_stream, shares, event invitees, event likes, http://indiewebcamp.com/me/home, - https://developers.facebook.com/docs/apps/changelog#v2_4_deprecations )
#
snarfed
from what i can tell, losing /me/home will entirely kill https://facebook-atom.appspot.com/ :(:(:(
#
KartikPrabhu
oh no!
#
snarfed
details: https://github.com/snarfed/facebook-atom/issues/6
#
snarfed
sad. RIP FB in my reader :(
#
Kongaloosh
KartikPrabhu: same here, I'd like to bulk it
#
KartikPrabhu
Kongaloosh: my current process is documented here: http://indiewebcamp.com/photo#Kartik_Prabhu you should add your process too
#
snarfed
looks like >1k facebook-atom users right now. sad that they'll all lose it too
#
snarfed
sigh
#
kartikprabhu.com
edited /photo (-63) "/* Kartik Prabhu */ edit POSSE copies of examples" (view diff)
#
Kongaloosh
cheers
#
@papapelz
@mamaskind_de Kennst du dich mit #indieweb und WP in lieblicher Einigkeit aus? :) @2kindchaos @2kindchaos_mo (twtr.io/11zEuLrPWcs)
#
KartikPrabhu
snarfed: that is bad! It seems FB is hell bent on locking people in.
#
KartikPrabhu
good thing I mostly ignore FB
#
aaronpk
wow that's too bad
#
snarfed
i'm hoping there's some new way somewhere
#
snarfed
…but not optimistic. their messaging isn't "use this new thing instead," it's "no news feed any more." period.
#
gRegorLove
"2-year deprecations"? meaning it will work for 2 more years?
#
snarfed
gRegorLove: yup that's what those mean. 2-3y deprecations are common for big platforms.
#
snarfed
…except /me/home and read_stream are 90-day deprecations
#
GWG
snarfed: I resisted joining Facebook long after most people did. Buy that is where people who aren't anywhere else are. Like relatives
#
@ClayFerguson
@t @indiewebcamp #SWAT0 @jcr @jackrabbit What will become the Federated Web of Social Portals built w/ OakJCR? Answer http://meta64.com (twtr.io/11zHe4Zrhdw)
# tantek joined the channel
# _fran joined the channel
# tantek joined the channel
# tvn joined the channel
# _fran joined the channel
# tantek joined the channel
# _fran joined the channel
#
@portenkirchner
Interview with @aaronparecki http://notizblog.org/2015/07/23/interview-mit-aaron-parecki/ #IndieWeb (twtr.io/11zQcSoxFXC)
# _fran joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# shiflett joined the channel
# smus joined the channel
# _fran joined the channel
# kronda_ joined the channel
# ramsey_ joined the channel
# voxpelli_ joined the channel
# slvrbckt_ joined the channel
#
j12t
aaronpk: congratulations! Nice interview!
#
Loqi
j12t: tantek left you a message 3 weeks ago: you host your own CalDAV server right? which personal site do you have it on? Or perhaps just add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/caldav#IndieWeb_Examples ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-06-05/line/1433546259556
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# gRegorLove joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
#
snarfed
hey KevinMarks, just fyi, i got a 500 on http://svgur.com/i/1a.svg a minute ago
#
snarfed
it went away when i refreshed
#
KevinMarks
I got a weird error uploading another version of that - metadata too big
#
upon2020.com
edited /caldav (+223) "added myself" (view diff)
#
upon2020.com
edited /caldav (+25) "added OSX Calendar support" (view diff)
# tvn joined the channel
#
upon2020.com
edited /caldav (+97) "added disclaimer" (view diff)
# tantek joined the channel
#
aaronpk
j12t: thanks! My favorite part was it was published in German too!
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
tantek
j12t++ thank you! Appreciate the example and especially the note about private use. Every real world example that we collect like this helps better inform future designs.
#
Loqi
j12t has 5 karma
#
tantek
what is OakJCR?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "OakJCR" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100J
#
tantek
what is Meta64?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Meta64" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100K
#
tantek
This makes no sense to me - perhaps someone else can understand? https://twitter.com/ClayFerguson/status/624698602653249536
#
@ClayFerguson
@t @indiewebcamp #SWAT0 @jcr @jackrabbit What will become the Federated Web of Social Portals built w/ OakJCR? Answer http://meta64.com (twtr.io/11zHe4Zrhdw)
# KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
tantek
What is a Social Portal?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Social Portal" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100L
#
aaronpk
I looked at that, clicked the link, then immediately closed the tab
# tantek joined the channel
#
tantek
snarfed, yikes re: FB deprecations
#
tantek
more bricks in the walls
#
snarfed
yup :/
#
tantek
benwerd: you were too kind, could have said something like resistance if futile. #radiofreeamerica
#
tantek
s/if/is
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: benwerd: you were too kind, could have said something like resistance is futile. #radiofreeamerica
# _fran joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# scor joined the channel
# scor joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# scor joined the channel
# chreekat joined the channel
# emmak joined the channel
# chreekat joined the channel
# frzn joined the channel
#
david.shanske.com
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+382) "/* Remote Participants */" (view diff)
#
GWG
Okay...better set an alarm.
#
GWG
Sleep deprivation is fun
# dns53 joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# j12t joined the channel
# keroberos joined the channel
# chreekat joined the channel
# KevinMarks_ joined the channel
# wolftune joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# KevinMarks__ joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
# poka joined the channel
# wolftune joined the channel
# tvn joined the channel
# tantek joined the channel
# wolftune joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# tantek joined the channel
#
@jarofgreen
I'm awake and showered this early after a crazy week. #indiewebcamp Edinburgh better be good. http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (Still time to come!) (twtr.io/1206Ec4Un8o)
# indie-visitor joined the channel
#
Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
(or join via IRC, Matrix, or Slack)