#indiewebcamp

2015-07-26

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@realHermitian
#indieweb because the web is social, open. http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twtr.io/122LmyS1chQ)
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JarOfGreen
Edinburgh ...... breakfast has arrived!
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@jarofgreen
Edinburgh #indiewebcamp day 2, the hack day ... breakfast is here, people are arriving ... (twtr.io/122TQG7FD8H)
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JarOfGreen
So, my hackday plan is adding the ability to import events on a webpage that are marked up with h-event or schema.org markup to OpenACalendar .... first step, a good HTML parsing lib for PHP, and taking the data to some solid models ....
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rhiaro
Good morning everyone! Anyone remote-hacking today, and want a stream / to be streamed?
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JarOfGreen
Ahha, https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2 looks useful
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@rhiaro
Got vegan breakfast and ... an aeroplane seat ... everything I need for day 2 of IndieWebCamp Edinburgh! http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/got-vegan (twtr.io/122UVK4gn5b)
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@rhiaro
Working on your own website (or want to start)? Come to @ncredinburgh today! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/working-own (twtr.io/122VAvFe9Hs)
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JarOfGreen
Just read https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4cDM5D/ ..... hate to be the negative one ... but if someone includes your package in their app and then puts their app through a continuous integration testing server like Travis your downloads count will artificially rocket .... sorry ... I'll prob break 1000 on https://packagist.org/packages/jmbtechnologylimited/parsedatetimerangestring today :-)
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rhiaro
Hey JarOfGreen, you could better pass that message across by sending a webmention to barnabywalters :)
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JarOfGreen
I feel mean enought saying it in IRC, don't want to blog it to :-p
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@macleodan
Something about mountains with fax machines. #indieweb (twtr.io/122Xjf6pAyC)
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rhiaro
What are people working on today:
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "people working on today:" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100P
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rhiaro
Jarofgreen: Scraping events data microformats and schema.org
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rhiaro
KitB: Working on irc library, part of de-siloing grand plan
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rhiaro
moredhel: webmention and micropub for static sites
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rhiaro
anm: Static sites stuff
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rhiaro
rhiaro: Displaying webmentions on my site
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rhiaro
tbrb: Starting from scratch with new site. Micropub is on the cards.
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rhiaro
kegan: allow any matrix client to be micropub enabled
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rhiaro
fran: parse metadata from images and get a page of html with microformats
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh (-9) "nachos." (view diff)
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@axiomer
Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere -- What, why and how https://indiewebcamp.com/posse #blogs #internet (twtr.io/122aQCknpgL)
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aaronpk
good morning!
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rhiaro
good morning aaronpk!
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rhiaro
Would you like a hangouts link?
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rhiaro
There's a room of people doing micropub stuff (ping tbrb)
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mm0hai.net
edited /Jekyll (+51) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tbrb
Can do if wanted :)
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aaronpk
sure! happy to help!
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moredhel
morning all, I'm looking at getting ghost to support microformat2 markup. does anyone know of any themes that do this already? I have looked at this already: https://indiewebcamp.com/Ghost
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tbrb
rhiaro: can you come sign in?
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aaronpk
moredhel: not that I know of, it would be linked on the wiki. I assume you already found the last attempt at adding mf2 markup?
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moredhel
I haven't found the pr actually, but it should probably be linked on the page?
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aaronpk
it is
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moredhel
oh :p, just saw it
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moredhel
I'll have a play with things
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aaronpk
great! do you use ghost on your site?
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tbrb
Hangouts here: http://bit.ly/1KrppJF
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rhiaro
tbrb++
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Loqi
tbrb has 3 karma
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tbrb
aaronpk: do you have a way to sign into quill with a dev copy of a site? ie, I'm running a dev server at localhost:8080 rather than harryreeder.co.uk?
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aaronpk
tbrb: i haven't tried that before, but you should be able to use a ssh tunnel to give your localhost a public address
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aaronpk
like https://ngrok.com/
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tbrb
aaronpk: That's do-able except I still fall over at the indieauth step like so: http://img.harryreeder.co.uk/2015-07-26_11-58-19.png
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tbrb
I assume because the rel=me links aren't actually pointing at the server where my tunnel exits
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aaronpk
yeah they'd have to point to main.f-t.so:8081
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aaronpk
the easiest one to do that with is google+ because you can link to multiple rel=me profiles
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tbrb
Oooh, ok
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tbrb
or maybe persona?
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aaronpk
oh yeah that also works
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aaronpk
if that ends up working well for you, probably worth adding a writeup to the wiiki
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moredhel
alright, I ended up just writing the markup myself, and submitting a pr for my theme
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aaronpk
cool i was able to sign in to quill using ngrok and persona
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rhiaro
moredhel++
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Loqi
moredhel has 1 karma
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moredhel
yay :)
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anm
Is someone doing notes with jekyll?
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tbrb
Got it working with Google+
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anm
with twitter posse?
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tbrb
I've not been able to get it working with Persona though, but I'd not set up persona previously either
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aaronpk
anm: bret has done a bunch with that. see http://indiewebcamp.com/Jekyll
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aaronpk
tbrb: ah yeah persona is kind of confusing to set up the first time IIRC
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aaronpk
has anyone noticed that quil's note interface doesn't work in firefox?
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aaronpk
oh nvm... i had noscript turned on in firefox :)
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aaronpk
cool, ngrok works great for testing a local site using the real quill
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atomicules
anm: I'm syndicating notes to Twitter with Jekyll.
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atomicules
anm: Bit of a custom set-up, some details here: http://atomicules.co.uk/2015/05/22/Yet-more-Indieweb-syndication-notes.html
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atomicules
anm: The code in that post is already out of date, but the approach is still the same
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aaronparecki.com
created /ngrok (+318) "Created page with "{{stub}} '''<dfn>Ngrok</dfn>''' is a utility for making local servers available on a public address https://ngrok.com/. Ngrok is useful for testing development websites with pu..."" (view diff)
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JarOfGreen
"Ohhhhh, that's how it works" just heard from next door ....
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aaronpk
haha i heard that too
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aaronparecki.com
created /localtunnel.me (+148) "Created page with "{{stub}} '''<dfn>localtunnel.me</dfn>''' allows you to share a local server on a public address. http://localtunnel.me/ == See Also == * [[ngrok]]"" (view diff)
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aaronparecki.com * uploaded "[[File:ngrok-screenshot.png]]"
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aaronparecki.com * uploaded "[[File:ngrok-web-interface.png]]"
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rhiaro
Does anyone at indiewebcamp edinburgh want to get me a cup of coffee? I don't want to get up or take my headphones off :)
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aaronparecki.com * uploaded "[[File:quill-ngrok-sign-in.png]]"
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rhiaro
I guess not.
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aaronparecki.com * uploaded "[[File:ngrok-indieauth-com.png]]"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /ngrok (+1479) "add section on how to test micropub clients" (view diff)
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aaronpk
hope that is useful! http://indiewebcamp.com/ngrok
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aaronpk
tbrb: i'm hearing some conversation about http 401 vs 403 codes... is that not documented somewhere already?
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aaronpk
okay next project time... i think i'm going to tackle clustered notifications for webmention.io
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tbrb
aaronpk: Any idea why indieauth will just sit attempting to find rel=me links and hang: http://img.harryreeder.co.uk/2015-07-26_12-57-11.png ?
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rhiaro
aaronpk: did you fix the favorite bookmarklet? :)
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aaronpk
hrm no... check the browser console to see if there's a js error?
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aaronpk
rhiaro: I did! I made it pop up a new window instead
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rhiaro
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 905 karma
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tbrb
Ah, Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 502 (Bad Gateway)
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rhiaro
clustered notifications for webmention.io will be awesome
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aaronpk
tbrb: oh you're getting that from indieauth.com?
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rhiaro
I'm just about to start pulling wms from webmention.io into my store
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aaronpk
rhiaro: cool! you wouldn't expect to get the clustered notification text in the api would you?
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rhiaro
I haven't thought that far yet
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tbrb
yeah aaronpk, just when attempting to sign in to quill. Let me try another service
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rhiaro
feels like it will be useful for something, but one step at a time
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aaronpk
tbrb: it's only hanging on one of the indieauth.com servers, so in a minute you'll probably get bounced to a new one
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tbrb
Fair enough
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tbrb
goes for a drink break then
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aaronpk
strange, that server can't reach your ssh tunnel. I will have to ask bear if there's a firewall that's blocking it
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tbrb
Maybe something to do with the non-standard port?
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aaronpk
probably
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aaronpk
if it still isn't working, then change "indieauth.com" to "primary.indieauth.com" and that'll make it do the request against a specific server
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aaronpk
you can just change it in the browser address bar
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rhiaro
anm++ for making me mate
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Loqi
anm has 1 karma
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tbrb
it worked in the sense of it getting my providers fine, but then google throws a wobbly because primary.indieauth.com isn't a registered callback handler
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aaronpk
oh yeah hah
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tbrb
@The redirect URI in the request: https://primary.indieauth.com/auth/google_oauth2/callback did not match a registered redirect URI@
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aaronpk
only works for things like persona
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tbrb
yeah
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tbrb
Ach well
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aaronpk
i can remove the problem server for now
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aaronpk
also indieauth.com might be resolving to a different one for you by now
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aaronpk
k it's out of the pool
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tbrb
Ok
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tbrb
Perfect, all good now
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aaronpk
\o/
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tbrb
Is there any sort of prescription for permalink structure?
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aaronpk
for your own site? not a presecription, no
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aaronpk
but there are some best practices
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aaronpk
http://indiewebcamp.com/url-design
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rhiaro
don't put post types in urls :)
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tbrb
reads
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Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki posted 'Wrote up a tutorial on testing local micropub clients with ngrok http://indiewebcamp.com/ngrok #indieweb' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/ngrok (https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/26/1/micropub-indieweb)
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aaronpk
the sun is coming up :)
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tbrb
We're starting to cloud over here
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csarven
tbrb I suggest reading http://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI a few times.
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rhiaro
aaronpk: webmention.io has a 'verified' field - how long does it take to verify them? (I've never seen it set to false, that's all)
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csarven
tbrb Everything else pretty much stems from that.
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aaronpk
rhiaro: pretty sure you'll only see verified ones. it's unverified before it checks the source URL
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rhiaro
Okay
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anm
rhiaro: why are you against post types? (I read http://indiewebcamp.com/url-design)
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rhiaro
I'm not against post types per-say, but putting them in the urls leads to problems if you decide to tweak your model
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rhiaro
I'm against some post types
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tbrb
csarven: Cheers. I'm thinking just /entries/<year>/<month>/<day>/<slug>, with a hackable URL to just show a list page for say, /entries/<year>/<month>
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rhiaro
explicit post types
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rhiaro
tbrb: I do that, but without day
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csarven
shrugs at the dates.
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rhiaro
csarven: depends how much you post, and maybe how likely your slugs are to collide
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rhiaro
when you post a lot, filtering by month and year is pretty helpful
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tbrb
Dropping day could be an idea too actually
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tbrb
yeah, I like the sound of that
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tbrb
slugs colliding in the same month is unlikely
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rhiaro
On the other hand, I often want to find a post and forget the month but remember thes lug
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rhiaro
fortunately I have two versions of all my URIs
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rhiaro
one without the year and month..
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csarven
I agree, but you should filter by however the resource describes itself, not based on the IRI
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aaronpk
i actually prefer my slugs to be informative rather than canonical
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aaronpk
tbrb: basically you're gonna find a lot of personal preference when it comes to url design :)
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rhiaro
URIs should be opaque etc
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rhiaro
tbrb: you're going to see differences of opinion from linked data world compared to indieweb world I think, too :)
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tbrb
Yeahhhhh
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csarven
tbrb Consider whether the term "entries" is most appropriate e.g., should it be singular or plural? should it be there to begin with?
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rhiaro
oh yeah, tbrb I wouldn't necessarily bother with /entries/
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rhiaro
also shorter is better
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anm
rhiaro: I think I read something on your site, hm, you have a URI for the concept / content, and a URL or more for some representation of it?
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rhiaro
uhh yeah I'd rather not talk about it :p
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rhiaro
it has solved and created a number of problems
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tbrb
I guess if the first "folder" is specifically an int or similar then I won't hit any routing troubles
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anm
hmkay
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anm
maybe you can write about it sometime then
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rhiaro
Okay I'll talk about it really. I have blog.rhiaro.co.uk/slug which does content negotation and can return turtle, rdf/xml or json
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rhiaro
or markdown
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rhiaro
if you ask for text/html it redirects to rhiaro.co.uk/year/month/slug which is html version with comments etc
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aaronpk
tbrb: if your first segment is year then that's a pretty strict pattern to match, [0-9]{4}
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csarven
I'd ditch the dates altogether. Come up with a proper mechanism to generate unique paths, which includes handling scenarios where you come up with the same slug for some reason. e.g., if 'foo' exists, go with 'foo-n' or whatever. There is a trade off: how complicated do you want the URL to be and how likely are you going ot run into collisions. Work around the collision possibilities (which is far less likely than introducing date
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csarven
s and other things upfront and all the time)
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@macleodan
I'm going next door to look at a cat on the internet. #indiewebcamp (twtr.io/122n_8U_yLp)
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rhiaro
I do have a collision avoiding mechanism in my slugs anyway, since I started with the dateless version
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aaronpk
there are many benefits to having the date in the URL, especially for date-based content like posting notes
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csarven
Most importantly: come up with an URL Template for your site: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6570 and then go on from there.
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csarven
aaronpk There are about zillion (meta)data that's "important" for a resource. There is no need to arbitrarily shove them into the URL.
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aaronpk
csarven: like i said... personal preference
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csarven
trbr http://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/
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aaronpk
csarven: if you have any personal experience with URL design for your personal website, feel free to add to http://indiewebcamp.com/url-design
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anm
does anyone in Edinburgh want lunch yet? I will goto Mosque Kitchen if so.
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rhiaro
is still not hungry
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tbrb
Yeah I'm not too fussed tbh
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csarven.ca
edited /URL_design (+33) "Added W3C Note on Cool URIs for the Semantic Web" (view diff)
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anm
rhiaro: and what are the problems created solved by your scheme? Do you recommend it?
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@papapelz
@AphiliaInfo Und volle Integration von microformats2? Aktuell nur bei SemPress. Sollte halt #indieweb-kompatibel sein. (twtr.io/122oP6M0HGq)
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rhiaro
Having two urls for everything is a problem. People are going to reply/like/etc (ie send webmentions to) the /date/ version, because that's the most obvious html version, even though I'd technically want stuff at the non-date version. But I have to accept that.
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rhiaro
the ids for posts in my store are the non-date version
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anm
I think date makes sense in URLs for content where date is actually relevent, but I am now thinking that for many blog articles, it is not, and really I should have a post type which does not have dates.
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rhiaro
So when I get webmentions to the date version, I have to map that to store the replies
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anm
I mean, at all, not just in URL.
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rhiaro
but havint the non-date version at a subdomain means when I get an ssl cert at my top level I won't have to change all the IDs in my store
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rhiaro
(to https)
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voxpelli
I believe I will get a problem with URL:s when I move to implement update/delete in my Micropub endpoint as Jekyll requires full date in file names I believe but I only have month+year in URL
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voxpelli
but that's kind of an edge case – doing Jekyll + full dynamic IndieWeb makes for some edge cases
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anm
also there is a yerba mate going around if anyone is interested
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csarven
Interesting that /url-design talks about yyyy/mm/dd pattern, instead of yyyy-mm-dd pattern which is actually the ISO 8601 pattern.
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aaronpk
it's not a far stretch to use slashes in URLs to separate date segments. it's still in yyyy-mm-dd order which is the important part
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_fran
I was just cursing against EXIF dates, which are in yyyy:mm:dd format :)
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csarven.ca
edited /URL_design (+83) "Mentioned ISO 8601 date pattern" (view diff)
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rhiaro
using slashes makes yyyy and yyyy/mm collection pages obviously human-discoverable
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JarOfGreen
advantage of using slashes in URLs is then you have a natural page that lists all content from one year, or one month I guess
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csarven
- and / are merely strings. One of which in the date pattern is an ISO date pattern, the other is not. So, sure, we can chalk that also up as a personal preference.
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csarven
(when in doubt)
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JarOfGreen
Ok, so my PHP lib to parse events from HTML with both schema.org and h-events syntax is going well. With unit tests! Title, Start and End date done. https://github.com/JMB-Technology-Limited/HTMLIsAnEvent Anyone have some example web pages with marked up events I could test it against? (And they don't mind me saving the HTML in my repo so I have stable tests)
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voxpelli
JarOfGreen: if you've written the parser yourself then you can run it against https://github.com/microformats/tests/tree/master/tests/microformats-v2/h-event which is a parser test suite for microformats
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@papapelz
.@AphiliaInfo wunderbarer Ansatz: der breiten Masse sollten auch ihre Daten gehören. ;) #indieweb (twtr.io/122pz8BeZkb)
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@AphiliaInfo
@papapelz jo, deswegen ist #WordPress besser als #Facebook! Aber wichtig ist die Usability... auch fürs #indieweb (twtr.io/122q7YWBh94)
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aaronpk
JarOfGreen: nice! I sent you two links in a github issue
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ben_thatmustbeme
good morning / afternoon IWC
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: did you see my notes on syndication
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ben_thatmustbeme
was the most i could get through so sleepy last night
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aaronpk
i did, but i didn't quite follow
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tbrb
I have working micropub =3
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aaronpk
woo!
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rhiaro
just let kegan auth with her micropub endpoint for testing, so her site will be full of test messages imminently..
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7YUAACSOS
thanks rhiaro :)
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rhiaro
woah, what's your nick?
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csarven.ca
edited /URL_design (+100) "Mentioned RDF 6570 URI Template" (view diff)
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7YUAACSOS
clearly wrong >:(
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csarven
Oops.. should be RFC
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rhiaro
oh, are you in irc via matrix?
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JarOfGreen
aaronpk: thanks
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rhiaro
7YUAACSOS
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7YUAACSOS
yeah, got netsplit and then assigned this :/
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rhiaro
oh right
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JarOfGreen
voxpelli: thanks, may pick those up, might try and grab lots of real world examples tho. So I've used someone else's PHP HTML parser, then I'm just selecting tags out of the result. But there is still a big variance in possible options, even in what I've already seen
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JarOfGreen
just added description field
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /syndication (+32) "add see also to brainstorming" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /rel-syndication (+32) "/* See Also */ syndication-brainstorming" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
there, couldn't find the page too easily
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aaronpk
haha nice
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aaronpk
i shoulda done that when i made the page, thanks
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ben_thatmustbeme
no problem
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Loqi
definitely
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ben_thatmustbeme
no to reread what i wrote
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ben_thatmustbeme
haha, Loqi is against you
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terminalpixel_
@aaronpk just implemented micropub on test.grant.codes and all clients seem to work except teacup. Is there something I'm missing?
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aaronpk
terminalpixel_: teacup is kind of weird
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aaronpk
is it not creating posts or are you getting some actual error?
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aaronpk
teacup doesnt send "content" so if you're requiring that then you'll get empty posts
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terminalpixel_
I don't seem to be getting any request through at all
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JarOfGreen
just added description field
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JarOfGreen
wrong window
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aaronpk
oh man people are trying to sign in to teacup with their email address
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rhiaro
terminalpixel_ just told me he's dumping the POST request and not getting anything at all
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csarven.ca
edited /URL_design (+50) "Study on Persistent URIs with identification of best practices and recommendations on the topic for the Member States and the European Commission" (view diff)
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rhiaro
and recently teacup mysteriously stopped working for me when I didn't think I'd made any changes to my endpoint
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7YUAACSOS
rhiaro: Does your server accept access_token in the form body?
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aaronpk
weird. i use it literally every day
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rhiaro
it's probably me
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rhiaro
it's usually me
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rhiaro
7YUAACSOS / kegan: my server does whatever the Quill docs say
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rhiaro
also hang on I've got a link to my code somewhere
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rhiaro
it's basically this rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/minimum-viable-micropub
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aaronpk
terminalpixel_: if you don't mind, i will try sending a post to your micropub endpoint from the teacup server manually
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terminalpixel_
go for it
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7YUAACSOS
looks like it is indeed just checking the headers. Will set both then
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aaronpk
terminalpixel_: I got a reply that says it's missing the "content" parameter
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aaronpk
"Missing "content" value."
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /syndication-brainstorming (+488) "/* Getting Token / Initial set-up */ trying to clean up explanation" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: ^^ hopefully clearer
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terminalpixel_
cheers aaronpk, library I'm using we requiring content param, receiving data now
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aaronpk
terminalpixel_: great! maybe file an issue on the library to make it not require "content"?
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terminalpixel_
yep will do
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rhiaro
yay, glad that got resolved
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aaronpk
wow clustering notifications is hard
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aaronpk
s/notifications/webmentions
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Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: wow clustering webmentions is hard
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rhiaro
wow, concentrating on what I'm doing for more than 5 minutes is hard
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rhiaro
anm, is this a consequence of all that mate??
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aaronpk
that too :)
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anm
rhiaro: maybe, it depends on the person probably.
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anm
atomicules: Is all your blog code available or just the syndication bit? I'm also working out how to do notes using jekyll collections, wondered if you did that.
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tantek
tbrb: check out the details on http://indiewebcamp.com/URL_design in particular note that it's important to keep the slug *optional*
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tantek
http://indiewebcamp.com/URL_design#Topic
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tbrb
Will do, cheers
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anm
atomicules: thanks anyway, I'm adapting that for my site. What is the licence?
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7YUAACSOS
hmm, I have some indieauth woes. I'm getting back a token which I'm then passing to the oauth url to verify (as per https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol#Auth_code_verification )
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7YUAACSOS
but when I try to use this token with tokens.indieauth.com it says that error=unauthorized&error_description=The+token+provided+was+malformed
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tantek
good luck with all the creating today!
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7YUAACSOS
I don't see any obvious url encoding problems (since it's passed as a header, the ='s are not url encoded)
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rhiaro
oh man, 1.5h to demos
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rhiaro
tunes out of IRC for a while
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aaronpk
7YUAACSOS: that's the authorization code you are passing to tokens.indieauth.com?
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tbrb
oh wow, didnt see the time
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tantek
csarven - I saw you added https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6570 to /URL_design - do you post your URI Template anywhere on your site?
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7YUAACSOS
aaronpk : correct, I don't seem to get another token to use on that last verify leg, just the me= stuff
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aaronpk
oh wait no that's the access token
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tantek
csarven, do you use /YYYY-MM-DD/ anywhere in URLs on your site?
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7YUAACSOS
the code I'm using is the one I got as a query param "code" - this felt wrong to me since usually you exchange that for an access token
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7YUAACSOS
but I didn't see anything in the docs to suggest this would happen
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csarven
tantek http://csarven.ca/linked-sdmx-data#uri-patterns and no.
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aaronpk
7YUAACSOS: yeah i think you're mixing up two steps
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7YUAACSOS
I'm guessing this is going to be a header or something in the reply after verifying
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aaronpk
what part are you trying to build right now?
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7YUAACSOS
checks
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aaronpk
i mean are you trying to build a micropub endpoint or a token endpoint?
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aaronpk
i assume micropub endpoint, using tokens.indieauth.com and indieauth.com
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7YUAACSOS
nope, just debugging why it wasn't accepting my token
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7YUAACSOS
I'm doing a micropub client
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7YUAACSOS
got everything else working, just the micropub server was rejecting me
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tantek.com
edited /URL_design (+189) "move URL template to brainstorming (not a common practice), and add warning of why to avoid "literal" ISO8601 date format without path separators in a URL" (view diff)
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csarven
tantek I can show you million URLs using ISO8601 date pattern if that qualifies for IWC? Or is the max set to 100?
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csarven
tantek YOu have got to be kidding me. PROVE "not a common practice"
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csarven
Whatever
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tantek
csarven - if you find folks doing it on their personal site, you may documen tit
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csarven
Go nuts
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tantek
s/documen tit/document it
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: csarven - if you find folks doing it on their personal site, you may document it
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aaronpk
7YUAACSOS: there's a difference between the authorization code returned ffrom indieauth.com and an access token
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aaronpk
i think you're getting the two confused, which is why tokens.indieauth.com is rejecting it
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7YUAACSOS
how do I exchange the code for a token?
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aaronpk
check out https://indiewebcamp.com/obtaining-an-access-token
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aaronpk
the other page you linked was about just logging in, not micropub stuff
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aaronpk
here's the part where you exchange the auth code for an access token https://indiewebcamp.com/obtaining-an-access-token#Token_Endpoint
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csarven
tantek "Avoid the "literal" ISO 8601 date patterns of use /YYYY-MM-DD/ or /YYYYMMDD/ because by omitting path separators they are are less URL friendly (less hackable). " -- that's complete BS
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tantek
csarven - there are tons of URLs with long strings of numbers, database ids also - and they're also wrong
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csarven
We are not even talking about that.
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tantek
this is about good design, which needs very deliberate decisions
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tantek
not academic RFCs
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csarven
So what does that have to do with this discussion
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csarven
PLUS you've made several changes mixing up all the issues.
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tantek
more URL friendly, more hackable is better design
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csarven
make atomic changes
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csarven
+What's URL friendly?
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csarven
You are arguing somehow that /YYYY/MM/DD is more friendly than /YYYY-MM-DD/ ? Based on what? Personal preference?
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tantek
more URL friendly yes, because you just drop paths to handle various archive pages etc.
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csarven
Academic RFCs? Seriously? That's your argument?
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tantek
it's been a common blogger argument for ages
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7YUAACSOS
right, thanks. That wasn't super clear; isn't that code basically useless without the token?
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csarven
URL path is not 1:1 with filesystem paths.
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tantek
yes, RFCs without cited common real world practices are academic
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csarven
You should know that!
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tantek
it's about making them easier, friendlier
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Loqi
I agree
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tantek
which as nothing to do with such 1:1 arguments
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csarven
Your "friendlier" argument is entirel ybased on preference.
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aaronpk
7YUAACSOS: the code is a one-time use thing, only used to get the token
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aaronpk
wonders how best to document this path of making a micropub client
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7YUAACSOS
why bother with the verify step on the code given that it will be checked when exchanging for a token?
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aaronpk
now that I think about it, all the wiki pages are written from the perspective of writing micropub servers, would you agree 7YUAACSOS?
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aaronpk
the verify step on the code is between the token endpoint and the authorization endpoint, in case they are separate systems like indieauth.com and tokens.indieauth.com
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ben_thatmustbeme
csarven: /YYYY/MM/DD is friendlier, mainly because you could hopefully do /YYYY/MM/ to look up an entire month or /YYYY/ to look up an entire year
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ben_thatmustbeme
intuitive searching
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csarven
HOW?
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csarven
Based on what exactly?
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ben_thatmustbeme
you can't do that with YYYY-MM-DD/
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7YUAACSOS
right so I can skip that given I'm designing this specifically for indieweb
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csarven
Directories? Like I said, what you see in the URL is not necessarily mapped to a filesystem.
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ben_thatmustbeme
there is no intuitive browse
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csarven
Irrelevant. This is URL design.
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tantek
csarven: btw, no need for "Whatever" or "Go nuts" type responses. Please focus on productively contributing.
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ben_thatmustbeme
exactly
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csarven
Explain the browsing exactly
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csarven
heh
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aaronpk
7YUAACSOS: are you making a token endpoint or authorization endpoitn?
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aaronpk
csarven: would it be correct to say that you are speaking from the POV of URLs must be opaque?
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ben_thatmustbeme
visitnig /YYYY/ isn't viewing a folder, maybe it shows top for the year, who knows
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csarven
I am contributing by clear references and justification for them. You are making changes based on your feelings.
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ben_thatmustbeme
but its intuitive
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csarven
of course I'm going to tell you to "go nuts"
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tantek.com
edited /URL_design (+86) "separate semweb-specific article, explicitly call out importance of permalinks and Cool URIs don't change article" (view diff)
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7YUAACSOS
I am making a thing which acts as a "web app" on the diagram at https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol#Authorization_process
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csarven
aaronpk It is not necessarily my POV but the POV what URLs are. If you don't acknowledge "what" URLs are there is no need to discuss further
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csarven
haha
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csarven
Oh T, you are so allergic to SW it is sad.
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tantek
csarven: feel free to document your own personal permalink structure here https://indiewebcamp.com/permalinks#IndieWeb_Examples
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aaronpk
7YUAACSOS: that page is just about login/identification, so there is no access token in that step
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csarven
Those are arguably more approriate reading than some blog post
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csarven
The W3C notes/recs go through a lot of people befor epublishign.. whereas a blog post is someones POV
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tantek
csarven: just because I crticize something does not imply allergy. I organize things to help others be quickly productive instead of getting lost of W3C/academic esoterica (have plenty of experience with that)
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voxpelli
csarven: as I see it – URL:s are hierarchical and so are dates. URL:s use "/" to separate them. Check the RFC: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-1.2.3
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csarven
which you happen to "prefer" over what the W3C/RFC/IETF... prefers..
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aaronpk
csarven: the point is that in the real world, people have come to associate the "/" character with separate components of a URL, expecting to find content by removing components
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats not a rec, its a note from an IG which usually doesn't go through the same level of work
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ben_thatmustbeme
unless there is another link i missed
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tantek
csarven: lol no. "W3C notes/recs go through a lot of people" the majority who don't actually publish their own websites or practice what they talk - so thus aren't really qualified.
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csarven
T, I see that your gang is all ready to go at me :) No worries, I will go through the responses one at a time.
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tantek
csarven - focus on being productive instead of pushing academic theoreticals / edge cases.
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csarven
tantek THAT is only your measure of qualification. Not the rest of the world.
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tantek
csarven: rest of the world, shipping counts.
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tantek
here, shipping counts.
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csarven
heh
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tantek
like I said, feel free to document your own personal permalink structure here https://indiewebcamp.com/permalinks#IndieWeb_Examples
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aaronpk
7YUAACSOS: is that diagram here useful? https://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth-for-login
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csarven
Would like me to show you URLs in the millions that I'm publishing which use ISO8601 or is that above the IWC bar (100 URLs?)?
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ben_thatmustbeme
csarven: my main complaint is that you linked to a spec in a list of readable, real-world experience, and blatently moved it to the top to try to give it more authority
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tantek
csarven, and then keep being productive on your own site how you feel like it to set an example: http://indiewebcamp.com/user:csarven.ca (perhaps /wikify that some more with more Itches)
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csarven
is reading up to reply to everyone. pardon the delay.
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ben_thatmustbeme
csarven: no problem
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ben_thatmustbeme
obviously a lot to reply to
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7YUAACSOS
that diagram is very useful
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rhiaro
If the URL design page on the wiki is specifically about blog post/article URLs, rather than all URLs (which I think it is, as there are plenty of other domains where the stuff on that page doesn't apply, eg. long identifiers are useful) then that should be made clearer on the wiki page
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voxpelli
csarven: if one has the URL of "YYYY/MM/DD" and something is relative to the month, then one just does "../" – because its hierarchical – as pointed out by the URI RFC if you want an RFC :)
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csarven
ben_thatmustbeme Don't even bother to wave TimBL's Cool URIs doc with that justification. Like I said earlier, everything stems from that. Read his doc several times, embrace it.. then we can talk about the rest of those blog posts
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csarven
is reading aaronpk 's message above. will get to the rest.
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ben_thatmustbeme
timbl != god
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aaronpk
7YUAACSOS: okay cool, we're missing one for the flow to get an access token which i think is where the confusion is coming from
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ben_thatmustbeme
timbl liked xml :P
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ben_thatmustbeme
anyone can get things wrong
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aaronpk
cweiske++ for including the source code for the diagram here https://indiewebcamp.com/File:indieauth-authorization-process.png
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Loqi
cweiske has 33 karma
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rhiaro
and then csarven arguing that certain types of url are fine based on RFCs, and tantek arguing that they're not based on they're not 'friendly' becomes moot
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7YUAACSOS
aaronpk : yup, I think so
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rhiaro
because non-friendly URLs are out of scope for articles
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poka
didnt LEe Feigenbaum writ e CoolURIs. too lazy to loook
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7YUAACSOS
also, I'm now managing to 500 tokens.indieauth.com
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tantek
csarven, please consider focusing more on creating on your own site, and documenting your own results rather than taking offense at criticisms of RFCs / W3C specs etc.
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rhiaro
checks back out
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voxpelli
My Micropub endpoint now does automatic language detection on content – meaning I have multilingual support with all Micropub clients!
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csarven
ben_thatmustbeme I would say that a Note or whatever still has higher importance than a blog post. Of course the content matters, so this is only a generalization/default POV.
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aaronpk
i find these diagrams hard to read personally, but i will try to extend the existing one to the other flow
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aaronpk
learns sdedit uml syntax
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csarven
tantek Like I said, I have shipped URLs in the millions. Does that not count? how many have you shipped?
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voxpelli
aaronpk: if you want a CLI-tool that generates SVG:s for sequence diagrams instead: https://github.com/knsv/mermaid Never gotten along with ordinary UML-tools myself :/
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aaronpk
thanks
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csarven
ben_thatmustbeme Seriously? != God argument? If we are going to talk about "anyone can get things wrong", please allow me to put my default bet on TimBL over IWC. After all, one has a remarkable track record which not many even comes close to.
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poka
w3c spec-writers seem to heavily overlap with .edu paper-writers + corporate-countrycllub phd-welfare dudes who mainly seem to come up with vague r&d guidance , if there's "Trenches" involved there, theyre definitely different , IBMORACLEGOOGLE trenches than the typical wordpress admin's trenches
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csarven
rhiaro++
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Loqi
rhiaro has 132 karma
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aaronpk
rhiaro: definitely agreed about the sope of the url design page
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aaronpk
s/sope/scope
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Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: rhiaro: definitely agreed about the scope of the url design page
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aaronpk
after all, the entire wiki is about peoples' personal websites, not about general web technology
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aaronpk
attempts to run a .jar file
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csarven
aaronpk Like I said, would you like me to drop million URLs?
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csarven
s/million/millions of
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Loqi
csarven meant to say: aaronpk Like I said, would you like me to drop millions of URLs?
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csarven
If you are not allergic to LD, have a look here http://270a.info/
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csarven
Here is one observation : http://ecb.270a.info/dataset/YC/B/U2/EUR/4F/G_N_A/SV_C_YM/PY_20Y4M/2004-09-06
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aaronpk
csarven: if you have a million urls on your own website of URLs that use "yyyy-mm-dd" then that's one data point worth documenting
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /URL_design (+93) "Scope" (view diff)
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poka
W3C conference entries appear to be a much sadder lineup than the specs. so much ad-spyware-user-analyzer shit
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rhiaro
Can you stop now?
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ben_thatmustbeme
looks to see if any of those listed companies using LD is actually SOCIAL
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csarven
Companies? hehe /me chuckles
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aaronpk
yeah i'm gonna say the 270a.info link is out of scope
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aaronpk
rhiaro++
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Loqi
rhiaro has 133 karma
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csarven
aaronpk How so?
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aaronpk
1) it's not your personal website 2) it's not blog-like content
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ben_thatmustbeme
compasorry, rhiaro, with IWC on right now, IRC should be for that
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csarven
Well, if rhiaro's change is what it should be, stop bugging me. You should have fixed your own wiki before the discussion.
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ben_thatmustbeme
we can table all of this for now
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csarven
aaronpk 1) url-design said nothing about "personal website"
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csarven
NOTHING
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csarven
2) not about blog-like content either.
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aaronpk
csarven: see: indiewebcamp.com
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csarven
why?
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csarven
That's a different URL
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aaronpk
it's the parent URL
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voxpelli
it's not the amount of URL:s that's interesting – it's the personal experiences of people building sites that matter
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csarven
aaronpk Please make me a list of URLs that I must read before doing anything with url-design
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voxpelli
it's about _people_ and the experiences of _people_ – not about specs or whatever
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aaronpk
csarven: you have to understand the scope of indiewebcamp.com by now, so stop throwing out ridiculous arguments
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csarven
voxpelli Which is fine. I am suggesting tha tI have experience with X, yet, that is not even welcomed. Why? Perhaps you should question that!
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aaronpk
if you have experience with X on *your own personal website* then that is certainly welcome
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ben_thatmustbeme
csarven: aaronpk, rhiaro made a good point, IWC is on right now, lets save the IRC for them
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voxpelli
csarven: because you haven't been able to point towards an example of your experience
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voxpelli
"I did X and learned Y from that"
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aaronpk
goes back to UML diagrams
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voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 105 karma
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aaronpk
cries that none of the osx keyboard shortcuts work in this java app
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csarven
So let me get this right .. once and for all: is Semantic Web / Linked Data experience welcome in IWC or not?
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aaronpk
csarven: it's not about what the technology is, it's about what you're doing with it
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csarven
And if not, would you care to document that in the IWC homepage?
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voxpelli
rhiaro: do you know who in Edinburg it was that was interested in Micropub + static sites / Jekyll? I'm working on that for myself right now
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rhiaro
voxpelli: anm
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rhiaro
and moredhel
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moredhel
voxpelli, I'm just messing around with setting up a storage plan at the moment, but will try and actually get something more better, slightly further down the line.
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voxpelli
anm: moredhel: You may want to check out https://github.com/voxpelli/node-micropub-express – haven't yet released the full endpoint, but I'm testing it myself right now
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aaronpk
this uml syntax is crazy
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csarven.ca
edited /User:Csarven.ca (-104) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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kylewm
morning all, sorry if this has been asked, are the edinburgh demos going to be streamed?
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tbrb
Yeah, they will be
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aaronpk
sweet! how long til demos?
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aaronpk
7YUAACSOS: did you end up getting the token stuff sorted out?
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aaronpk
this diagram is going to take me a bit :)
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7YUAACSOS
aaronpk : yup, it's all working :)
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tbrb
aaronpk: ~ 50 minutes
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kylewm
aaronpk: having a little trouble wrapping my brain around this. writing an indieauth implementatio that delegates to tumblr. where should i stick the incoming request params (me, client_id, redirect_uri, etc.) while I redirect to tumblr's auth endpoint?
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tbrb
1630 uk time
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csarven.ca
edited /Webmention (+221) "A Webmention endpoint feature doesn't justify anything." (view diff)
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anm
voxpelli: yeah, I was going to add micropub after I had made a note type and twitter syndication.
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aaronpk
kylewm: either server side session or encoded in state
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voxpelli
anm: ping me if you want to discuss it – so far I've split up my work to be as reusable as possible and released all the modules
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kylewm
aaronpk++ ty
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Loqi
aaronpk has 906 karma
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atomicules
anm: I'll add a license, it'll be BSD
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kylewm
aaronpk: is a server side session (i think that means in memcache/redis?) a good way to store the oauth request token too? this is oauth1 so i need to save some info between calls
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atomicules
anm: I used to have the rest of my jekyll templates available, etc, but no more since I pulled it off Github
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aaronpk
yeah that's pretty typical. or in php it just uses a file on disk by default
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harryreeder.co.uk
edited /Micropub (+137) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ tbrb supports micropub" (view diff)
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KevinMarks
csarven: can you stop it please
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kevinmarks.com
edited /Webmention (-221) "Undo revision 21096 by [[Special:Contributions/Csarven.ca|Csarven.ca]] ([[User talk:Csarven.ca|talk]])" (view diff)
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Jeena
will the demos from Edinburgh be streamed?
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Jeena
Oh I see they will, forget my question :D
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KevinMarks
csarven: you see standards as legislation; we see them as documentation.
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tbrb
we'll be doing them from a different laptop than the current hackroom stream, but yeah, and I'll post hangout / youtube etc in ~ 30 minutes
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KevinMarks
thanks to wordpress, about a quarter of the web has YYYY/MM/DD urls
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JarOfGreen
aaronpk: thanks for examples, both basically working and the later one was an event that had both formats of markups which was something I was going to look out for - obvs we only want one event coming thru, which is now done!
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aaronpk
great!
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csarven
KevinMarks Care to explain why you've reverted my wiki edit? You've provided no reason for the revert. Do you need help with wiki use?
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Webmention (+668) "undo revert, and add background" (view diff)
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csarven
Interesting. Thank you aaronpk .. for whatever the reason was for the revert and undo-revert
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rhiaro
Calling IWC Edinburgh: does anyone else want another half an hour before demos?
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rhiaro
does
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rhiaro
ping JarOfGreen tbrb: thoughts?
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tbrb
I'd not say no
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tbrb
rhiaro: no objections from this room
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rhiaro
tbrb: that's always the case, we shold make a habit of listing the end of the demos as half an hour earlier than they need to be
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rhiaro
aaronpk, voxpelli, Jeena, anyone else who wants to remote in to demos, they've been pushed back half an hour, to 1700 BST
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Jeena
ok
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aaronpk
k! i probably won't have anything to demo, but will definitely watch!
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KevinMarks
for my philosophy on wikis, see http://epeus.blogspot.com/2003/04/blogs-wikis-mailing-lists-and.html
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Jeena
I took 12 beers with me from Portland but I don't want to open them because once I've dank them I will not be able to get anything like that here :-(
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voxpelli
rhiaro: how would one demo remotely? I guess I could show some of my Micropub work
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rhiaro
voxpelli: you could screen share. tbrb is in charge of that though
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csarven
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 907 karma
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tbrb
voxpelli: the stream will be done on hangouts so I'll fire you over the hangouts link when we do them and you'll be able to use that to screenshare
#
voxpelli
tbrb: cool, screensharing in hangout I've done multiple times :)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /File:indieauth-authorization-process.png (-18) "update terminology" (view diff)
#
Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Aaronparecki.com * uploaded a new version of "[[File:indieauth-authorization-process.png]]"
#
Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Aaronparecki.com * moved [[File:indieauth-authorization-process.png]] to [[File:indieauth-login-flow.png]]
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /indieauth-for-login (-11) (view diff)
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aaronpk
me right now https://i.imgflip.com/op8j6.jpg
#
rhiaro
aaronpk... *why* are you writing uml diagrams?
#
rhiaro
I was under the impression they had no actual utility.
#
aaronpk
making the counterpart to https://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth-for-login
#
rhiaro
oh okay
#
Jeena
for documentation they're very usefull
#
aaronpk
it's actually a sequence diagram but i guess it's uml syntax
#
rhiaro
I may have just become prejudiced against them at uni
#
aaronpk
i can't get my head around the syntax this app uses so i feel like that dog
#
rhiaro
seemed like something we were made to do for lecturer's entertainment only
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Jeena
I liked them at the university because I was able to do them and then just to generate Java code so I didn't have to write all the boilerplate by hand :p
#
@TerminalPixel
Got my new #indieweb system up and running! (twtr.io/1232GF9zfo0)
#
Jeena
and rhiaro we use them very often at work for documentation
#
tbrb
KitB / KitD (I'll probably want to start getting things set up in ~ 20 mins, and will need rhiaro to sign into the googles on your laptop
#
tbrb
~fyi
#
Jeena
but I've only been using Umbrello for UML yet, what are you using aaronpk?
#
aaronpk
the one linked from here https://indiewebcamp.com/File:indieauth-login-flow.png
#
Jeena
sdedit, never heard of it
#
KevinMarks
https://web.archive.org/web/20090327113401/http://littletutorials.com/2008/05/15/13-reasons-for-umls-descent-into-darkness
#
KevinMarks
did you see https://github.com/knsv/mermaid aaronpk ?
#
aaronpk
yeah i just wanted to make a few changes to this diagram, it'll look the same and i will also include the source like on indieauth-login-flow.png
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KevinMarks
OK - I liked that it made SVG instead of bitmaps
#
kylewm
there are lots of different types of UML, i think class diagrams are pretty worthless, sequence diagrams are great
#
aaronpk
like i said... https://i.imgflip.com/op8j6.jpg
#
kylewm
“LGTM 🐶🔬”
#
rhiaro
has squandered her extra 30 minutes
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snarfed
LGTM🐶🔬++
#
Loqi
snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 9 hours, 45 minutes ago: for app engine do I really have to include all dependencies as submodules? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437890202692
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /File:micropub-flow-diagram.png (+53) (view diff)
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kylewm
snarfed: I attemtped to answer Kartik's question already
#
Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aaronparecki.com * uploaded "[[File:micropub-auth-flow.png]]"
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /File:micropub-auth-flow.png (+1032) "add source" (view diff)
#
kylewm
http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437893080379
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /obtaining-an-access-token (-39) "add sequence diagram" (view diff)
#
aaronpk
woo okay! https://indiewebcamp.com/obtaining-an-access-token
#
aaronpk
closes sdedit, hopefully never has to open it again
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7YUAACSOS
aaronpk, that is much clearer, thanks.
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aaronpk
great!
#
aaronpk
that was an interesting excercise :)
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aaronpk
snarfed: i'm working on clustering now
#
aaronpk
there are many interesting edge cases
#
rhiaro
is not ready for iwc to be over aaaaarrrggg
#
aaronpk
aw
#
aaronpk
just switch to portland time, it's only 9am here!
#
rhiaro
is glad tbrb and jarofgreen are organising setting up demos so she can keep coding
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tbrb`
voxpelli, kylewm, aaronpk: http://bit.ly/1Oukvfu Hangouts link for demos, we're just getting set up here now
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@jarofgreen
What I worked on at #indiewebcamp for @OpenACalendar ... https://jarofgreen.co.uk/2015/what-i-worked-on-at-indiewebcamp-for-openacalendar- (twtr.io/1235KSjRZSQ)
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rhiaro
DEMOS
#
rhiaro
tbrb: Started with an empty site that could be logged into via indieauth
#
rhiaro
... Now has posts!
#
rhiaro
... via micropub
#
rhiaro
moredhel: you don't look like you're doing anything, and I need to write code, could you scribe?
#
rhiaro
write down everything everyone says
#
rhiaro
okay, moredhel is going next
#
rhiaro
moredhel: playing around with sinatra, didn't set up a database, use redis on the backend
#
rhiaro
... only did this in the last 20 minutes, but spent all time tinkering with backend
#
tbrb
is the stream working fine guys?
#
aaronpk
tbrb: yep! thanks
#
tbrb
awesome
#
rhiaro
... it pulls json and renders it
#
rhiaro
... intention to generate json, dump in a file, and not have to deal with dynamic stuff
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moredhel
kitb, demo'ing his irc bot!
#
voxpelli
tbrb: give a ping here when you want me to present :)
#
moredhel
https://bitbucket.org/KitB/pircel <- url
#
tbrb
voxpelli: will do, want to go next?
#
moredhel
it's a library written in python with the intention of allowing clients to connect to persistent connections to irc servers
#
voxpelli
tbrb: I can do that
#
tbrb
Ok
#
tbrb
\o/
#
moredhel
hi five bot proceeds to hi five anyone who wants to be high fived
#
moredhel
voxpelli brings up screen for demoing
#
moredhel
challenging to use micropub because of using jekyll
#
moredhel
got it working, but broke yesterday when using ownyourgram.
#
moredhel
decided to try and integrate language detection into micropub
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @rhiaro: It's demo time (twtr.io/1236DHdbeB1)
#
moredhel
demoing markup of swedish hopefully detected.
#
kylewm
voxpelli is speaking english and writing swedish simultaneously
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aaronpk
wow also great demo of replying via micropub from an ios app!
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KevinMarks
should not hav tried rewriting noterlive just before demos
#
KevinMarks
voxpelli++ for polyglot markup
#
Loqi
voxpelli has 36 karma
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tbrb
Thank you voxpelli :)
#
moredhel
JarOfGreen demoing his library
#
moredhel
github.com/JMB-Technology-Limited/HTMLIsAnEVent
#
moredhel
grant shows his new website.
#
moredhel
used micropub to post to website.
#
KevinMarks
hovercards now hover: http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-07-15.html
#
moredhel
syndication is modularised, meaning posting can be pointed at a finer granularity
#
moredhel
demoing posting to website using quill.
#
moredhel
... using mongoose to store data on the website
#
KevinMarks
will have to noterlive this later from the recording
#
KartikPrabhu
Loqi messages?
#
aaronpk
(speaking of which this is being recorded on youtube right?)
#
Loqi
KartikPrabhu: kylewm left you a message 9 hours, 36 minutes ago: no you don't (Bridgy doesn't use submodules anymore!) basically you can install deps into a virtualenv and include the virtualenv folder when you deploy to app engine. there are some tricks to setting up the path though http://stackoverflow.com/a/25564125/682648 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437893080379
#
Loqi
who, me?
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moredhel
Kegsay working on a plugin for matrix allowing matrix clients to send micropubs
#
KevinMarks
KartikPrabhu: I pinched your css, but the hovercards aren't on top of other hoverabel links
#
KartikPrabhu
weird
#
KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks: do you have an exmaple I can look at
#
moredhel
gorzilla demoing his project for this weekend
#
Jeena
It would be cool if the people would tell their name and domain before they demo ;)
#
moredhel
... couldn't get sandstorm to work because of kernel issues.
#
moredhel
... used docker instead using _known_.
#
moredhel
... was having issues with quill not reporting any messages.
#
moredhel
... fixed an issue with docker not installing a ca-certificate.
#
loqi.me
created /Matrix (+55) "prompted by kylewm and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
#
moredhel
.. now demoing posting to site using quill
#
aaronpk
so many demos using quill as a client! makes me nervous that i was hacking on it this weekend!
#
Jeena
(y)
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moredhel
franceso fran.io/trav.php
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Jeena
hehe aaronpk same here
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moredhel
exif non-standard
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moredhel
random binary, and multiple keys
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KevinMarks__
Kartik see the link I just posted
#
moredhel
... describing data, (geolocation, tags, dimensions) that can be extracted from images.
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moredhel
tim, retout.co.uk
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Jeena
for static map images I use http://staticmap.openstreetmap.de/
#
moredhel
https://retout.co.uk
#
moredhel
describing his old blog.
#
aaronpk
what are static maps?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "static maps" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100R
#
moredhel
describing his blog data-structure, built using a graph database, google-cayley, (written in go-lang)
#
rhiaro
tim is using AS2 vocab
#
JarOfGreen
Google has an API where you can pass lat/lng/etc .... you just get back a static image so no client side processing
#
KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks_ : use a z-index: 1 on the class .hovercard .hidden-info and it should work
#
moredhel
wrote a perl script to hack together a go program
#
aaronpk
static maps are a way to show a map on a web page without requiring a javascript library
#
loqi.me
created /static_maps (+115) "prompted by aaronpk https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-26/line/1437928164263 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi
ok
#
Jeena
hm pump.io with microformats would be interesting
#
moredhel
wants to try matching the pump.io api with his own, to allow for interop between applications
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tbrb
Rhiaro shows her local demo on her chromebook (doesn't think it will support hangouts nicely)
#
aaronpk
the hangouts is still showing retout.uk for me
#
aaronpk
oh
#
JarOfGreen
Done for presentations we think .... rhiaro take the stage to close
#
tbrb
homebrew website club edinburgh potentially on the cards?
#
Jeena
next week the first one in Göteborg!
#
Jeena
*clap,clap,clap*
#
aaronpk
congrats everyone!
#
rhiaro
\o/
#
rhiaro
gets back to code
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /static_maps (+505) "stub with examples and code" (view diff)
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aaronpk
Jeena: add yourself to the examples? https://indiewebcamp.com/static_maps
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Jeena
ok
#
GWG
rhiaro, you don't think a Chromebook can handle Hangouts?
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snarfed
aaronpk: hoo boy i can imagine all the clustering edge cases
#
snarfed
maybe start a list on the issue or wiki, i'd be curious
#
aaronpk
i think there are 4 types
#
aaronpk
almost have a gist
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GWG
snarfed: How do I get user testing in addition to unit testing?
#
snarfed
GWG: sorry, i don't understand the question
#
jeena.net
edited /static_maps (+273) "/* Jeena */ added example" (view diff)
#
snarfed
also "in addition" requires that the unit tests exist, right? :P
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7YUAACSOS
would also be interested in the clustering edge cases
#
aaronpk
i think there are 4 types of clusters: https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/5cbe2b53cfe566f356cb
#
rhiaro
GWG: yeah, it's perfect except when I try to run Google products
#
aaronpk
many-one, one-one-, one-many, many-many
#
GWG
rhiaro: Irony?
#
rhiaro
Runs Ubuntu juuust fine
#
GWG
snarfed: I am wondering if anyone is using the Micropub plugin actively.
#
GWG
That we know of.
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GWG
rhiaro: The one I had in Cambridge ran Fedora
#
snarfed
GWG: aha. the wp directory counts downloads, obviously
#
snarfed
otherwise you just have to ask around or build tracking in
#
snarfed
(but no thanks :P)
#
snarfed
(also that's mostly unrelated to unit tests)
#
snarfed
aaronpk: my instinct was to not try many-many
#
aaronpk
snarfed: 7YUAACSOS: here is my test case for the code i'm about to write https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/5cbe2b53cfe566f356cb
#
snarfed
UX/design there seems too hard
#
aaronpk
snarfed: i don't think i really have a choice, because it's a possible case
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snarfed
not really, right? you can just pick one side to de-multiplex
#
aaronpk
that actually seems harder
#
snarfed
in practice you wouldn't actually pick, it'd be determined by the timer(s)
#
snarfed
huh. i guess it depends on the implementation
#
aaronpk
well this is all for the part of your description that says "send a single notification for the cluster" :)
#
snarfed
i'm still thinking in terms of https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/39#issuecomment-123388057
#
GWG
snarfed: The full statistics are only available to you.
#
aaronpk
yeah this is an example of what the in-memory buffer could look like after the timer is reached
#
snarfed
aaronpk: ah, right, the clusters i described would be per target and per source
#
KevinMarks
thanks KartikPrabhu that fixed it: http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-07-15.html
#
GWG
snarfed: I don't want to go that far. Just wanted to find one person
#
snarfed
"store in two in-memory clusters, one for source and one for target"
#
aaronpk
maybe i misunderstood that
#
snarfed
GWG: right, the stats wouldn't help with that anyway
#
snarfed
just ask around?
#
KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks: nice
#
KartikPrabhu
can't any docs on how to add dependencies on app engine without cloning them into the app folder
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KartikPrabhu
s/can't/can't find
#
Loqi
KartikPrabhu meant to say: can't find any docs on how to add dependencies on app engine without cloning them into the app folder
#
aaronpk
snarfed: do you mean creating a bucket for each source and each target that comes in?
#
snarfed
KartikPrabhu: right, you have to do that. you can choose whether to do it via submodules, virtualenv, manually, etc
#
snarfed
KartikPrabhu: https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/python/tools/libraries27#vendoring
#
KartikPrabhu
urgh
#
snarfed
(in practice, app engine de-dupes identical source files across all apps)
#
snarfed
KartikPrabhu: you have to d/l and set up deps anywhere else too, right?
#
snarfed
snarfed: yes
#
snarfed
ahahahahaha
#
snarfed
aaronpk: yes
#
snarfed
transient; they'd disappear when you send their notif
#
aaronpk
i guess i couldn't get my head around how that would work
#
KartikPrabhu
snarfed: the thing is I can't just make my service install hfeed2atom. I have to install hfeed2atom, and all it dependecies as submodules or whatever
#
snarfed
or via pip/virtualenv, sure. but again, you'd need to do that anywhere else too, or else hfeed2atom wouldn't work, right?
#
aaronpk
it seemed like it would generate duplicate notifications
#
KartikPrabhu
usually setup tools does all that for me. now it seems I have to manually install each dependency or something
#
snarfed
aaronpk: i think step 4 avoids them: "Otherwise, send a single notif for the cluster, and remove the wms from the other clusters they're in (source vs target) so we don't send dupe notifs."
#
aaronpk
for the set ((a -> z),(b -> z)) you would end up with three buckets, the "a" bucket: (a -> z), the "b" bucket, (b -> z), and the "z" bucket, (a -> z),(b -> z)
#
snarfed
KartikPrabhu: you can still use setuptools. that's what i keep referring to with pip/virtualenv, sorry if that's unclear. read https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/python/tools/libraries27#vendoring , look at how e.g. bridgy does it
#
aaronpk
how do you know which of the three is the proper one to generate the notification text from?
#
snarfed
honestly it's no different
#
aaronpk
there would be 3 different timers in that case
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aaronpk
and if the "a" and "b" buckets hit first, you'd generate two notifications, and lose the whole clustering concept
#
KevinMarks__
That's neater than just dumping everything into the project like I do with unmung
#
snarfed
aaronpk: it was definitely a straw man, so there definitely may be problems. let's see…
#
KartikPrabhu
is confused about the virtualenv thing. that link does not seem to say anything about that
#
snarfed
for that example, there are two timers, so when a timer expires, you look at both source and target buckets and send the one with more notifs?
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: true. it's not explicit there. here's a pretty simple example: https://github.com/snarfed/oauth-dropins#development
#
aaronpk
snarfed++ for having two parallel conversations
#
Loqi
snarfed has 121 karma
#
snarfed
(ignore the two symlink cmds)
#
snarfed
heh
#
KartikPrabhu
hmm will have to investigate this pip/virtualenv thing
#
snarfed
KartikPrabhu: the other part of that example is https://github.com/snarfed/oauth-dropins/blob/master/appengine_config.py , which tells app engine to use the local/ dir
#
snarfed
KartikPrabhu: huh. i guess i assumed you were already using those. no matter, you can do the same thing with just setuptools, without them. just find the flag to install to a specific dir (e.g. local/ inside your app) instead of systemwide
#
snarfed
(sorry i don't know it offhand)
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snarfed
GWG: if you're looking for wp micropub users to talk to, someone posted about having trouble on https://wordpress.org/support/view/plugin-reviews/micropub today. maybe ping them?
#
KartikPrabhu
what's the advantage of this virtualenv stuff then?
#
snarfed
KartikPrabhu: http://docs.python-guide.org/en/latest/dev/virtualenvs/
#
snarfed
basically dependency isolation
#
GWG
snarfed: Sounds like the Readme needs work
#
KartikPrabhu
hmm
#
snarfed
aaronpk: did the 2 vs 3 timers thing make sense?
#
KartikPrabhu
snarfed: gotcha. will look into it this afternoon
#
aaronpk
yes
#
snarfed
cool
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aaronpk
is the timer per source/target or global?
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snarfed
per mention
#
GWG
snarfed: The commenter created their account today
#
snarfed
ie (source target) pair
#
aaronpk
oof
#
snarfed
definitely don't use a thread :P
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aaronpk
i was going to fake a "timer" by setting timestamps in redis and running something on a 1s schedule
#
snarfed
or at least not one per timer
#
snarfed
oh sure totally fine
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snarfed
aaronpk++ btw thanks so much for working on clustering!
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 908 karma
#
aaronpk
yeah it's about time :)
#
snarfed
it's lightly bugged me for a while that bridgy generated so many ugly notifs and floods here, so i appreciate that you're helping fix those
#
snarfed
(to be clear, all bridgy's fault, i'm just glad they're all fixable)
#
aaronpk
well it's gonna happen with or without bridgy eventually :)
#
snarfed
sure! bridgy was still a big (effectively qualitative) step fn in noise though
#
snarfed
noise--
#
Loqi
noise has -2 karma
#
snarfed
anyway
#
snarfed
congrats all on iwc edi!
#
snarfed
back later
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rhiaro
!tell benwerd now we're in the Hoose, 3x giant nachos imminent, shout if you want to see :)
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
aaronpk
rhiaro: nachos is a highlight word for me :)
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rhiaro
you should have come aaronpk! This pub has the biggest nachos EVER
#
rhiaro
Also a slightly smaller version with vegan cheese
#
GWG
rhiaro: Were there any WordPress users at IWC Edinburgh when you were talking about MicroPub?
#
GWG
I can't think a new user commenting on the WordPress MicroPub plugin today is a coincidence.
#
rhiaro
GWG: I don't think so. I did remind people it was available a few times. Who was it?
#
GWG
No idea, username proflapin.
#
GWG
May just be a coincidence
#
rhiaro
oh yeah, he was here
#
GWG
So, I was right. Not a coincidence.
#
GWG
rhiaro: Just wanted to find out what the trouble was to try to help, as part of the WordPress Outreach Club.
#
GWG
I guess though, the plugin won't work on Wordpress.com
#
rhiaro
GWG: yeah, that sounds like his problem
#
rhiaro
He has a wordpress.com site
#
GWG
I just found him on the guest list
#
rhiaro
He didn't say anything today, or at least, I didn't hear
#
GWG
Okay. Well, if nothing else, there's a comment under it offering to help
#
GWG
aaronpk: That reminds me. At IWC, there were a few people who wanted to do Indieweb WordPress tutorials. I forgot to ask where the results were.
#
KevinMarks_
Silo.pub works for WordPress.com
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kylewm
aaronpk: for the POST to verify a code against an authorization_endpoint, what status code should it return for failure?
#
aaronpk
400. See OAuth docs
#
kylewm
oh cool I didn't realize that was part of OAuth
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aaronpk
Oh nvm you're right, that's part of the IndieAuth extension. But the same codes should apply
#
kylewm.com
edited /token-endpoint (+24) "/* Access Token Request */ clarify this is a POST request" (view diff)
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@rhiaro
Indiewebcamp Edinburgh closes with giant nachos at the Auld Hoose. http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/indiewebcamp-edinburgh-closes https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/625368298100781056/photo/1 (twtr.io/123GsyRJRqw)
#
GWG
kylewm: You wrote silo.pub, right?
#
kylewm
i did
#
kylewm
aaronpk: I have to say it's a little weird that you GET to an authorizaton_endpoint to get the code and POST to verify it, and POST to a token_endpoint to get the token and GET to verify it
#
GWG
kylewm: You are using the WordPress.com JSON API?
#
kylewm
GWG: yes
#
GWG
kylewm: Because there is also the Jetpack JSON API and the WordPress REST API that will hopefully go into WordPress 4.4(long delayed)
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kylewm
I use https://public-api.wordpress.com/rest/v1.1
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kylewm
I'm not sure which one that is
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@IndieWebCampUK
RT @jarofgreen: What I worked on at #indiewebcamp for @OpenACalendar ... https://jarofgreen.co.uk/2015/what-i-worked-on-at-indiewebcamp-for-openacalendar- (twtr.io/123HtyXk1iU)
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@IndieWebCampUK
RT @rhiaro: Indiewebcamp Edinburgh closes with giant nachos at the Auld Hoose. http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/indiewebcamp-edinburgh-closes https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/625368298100781056/photo/1 (twtr.io/123HvTcYnhw)
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GWG
kylewm: Just thinking that if you also support the slightly different JSON Rest API, you could support any WordPress site that installed the REST API plugin
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aaronpk
kylewm: the get/post on the authorization endpoint is part of OAuth 2 (it's actually the browser making the GET), and posting to the token endpoint is also oauth 2.
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aaronpk
i thought it made sense to use GET requests to verify codes/tokens because it's not changing state of anything
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kylewm
I agree with that, but to be consistent, wouldn't the "verify auth code" bit need to be a GET?
#
aaronpk
checking...
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kylewm
http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol#Auth_code_verification
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aaronpk
oh hm, well that is derived from the oauth 2 exchanging an auth code for an access token
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aaronpk
in this case no access token is returned
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kylewm
oh interesting
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kylewm
yeah that makes sense, you make the basically same POST request to authorization_endpoint or token_endpoint
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aaronpk
right
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kylewm
I guess then I would like it better if https://indiewebcamp.com/token-endpoint#Verifying_an_Access_Token was a POST... if you POST with a code, you get a token, if you POST with a token, you get verification of the token
#
kylewm
(but this is quibbling, I don't feel strongly)
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aaronpk
that would make that step more similar to verifying auth codes
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aaronpk
many micropub servers end up implmeenting looking for tokens in both the header and post body, so i could see having the token endpoint check both as well
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kylewm
huh, I apparently didn't implement token verification in my site's token endpiont at all!
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aaronpk
you don't need to if your micropub endpoint can verify the token on its own
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kylewm
blargle flagle
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kylewm
ok
#
kylewm
ok, I think I would like to make that clearer, which bits of indieauth and token_endpoint are required for micropub, and which are just required for interoperation with other endpoints
#
kylewm
not even really sure how to phrase that
#
kylewm
(it is similar to the PuSH issue, specifying how the endpoint should notify subscribers)
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aaronpk
sure
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aaronpk
i get it
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aaronpk
does this diagram make sense to you? http://indiewebcamp.com/obtaining-an-access-token
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kylewm
ty aaronpk, sorry you always have to straighten this out for me. i will make a point to improve the wiki so hopefully you won't have to next time :p
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kylewm
looking
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aaronpk
these two parts are only required for interoperating with other endpoints http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/indieauth-flow-20150726-115528.png
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aaronpk
if your auth endpoint, token endpoint and micropub endpoint are all part of the same system, you can do those parts however you want
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kylewm
but I *do* need the first arrow there if i want to support distributed-indieauth
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kylewm
right?
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aaronpk
first arrow?
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aaronpk
number 7?
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kylewm
yes
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kylewm
first big red arrow :P
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aaronpk
i guess the question is are you making a micropub endpoint that only you will use?
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kylewm
I'm making a micropub endpoint for silo.pub that only silo.pub wll use...
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aaronpk
(e.g. all three auth/token/micropub endpoints are in the same system)
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aaronpk
okay so no, the auth endpoint will be dependent on the person signing in
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aaronpk
this is getting into the multi-user micropub realm right?
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kylewm
that UML totally makes sense, I think it should explicitly include "discover token endpoint and micropub endpoint" between 5 & 6
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aaronpk
oh yeah i forgot to add that part
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kylewm
i don't know that it qualifies as multi-user or not
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KartikPrabhu
gives up again on this app engine nonsense
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aaronpk
here's a question, is this something you'd expect me to use by signing in as aaronparecki.com? or would I be signing in as aaronpk.wordpress.com
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aaronpk
(i think the answer is the wordpress subdomain)
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kylewm
the latter
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kylewm
oh right, definitely not multi-endpoint micropub stuff
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aaronpk
okay so in that case, you actually do control the auth endpoint too
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aaronpk
as in, you could build your own auth endpoint for silo.pub
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: yeah, it's tough to get right... I was wrestling with getting the right verison of requests to run on GAE for hours last week
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kylewm
aaronpk: yeah that's what i want to do
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KartikPrabhu
I am having trouble with the webapp2 response object and setting content type and stuff
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KartikPrabhu
no very good docs on those either
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aaronpk
you could even make your auth endpoint use the silo login as both authentication and indieauth authorization so users only see one prompt
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kylewm
i want to sign in to Quill with kylewm.tumblr.com, it redirects to silo.pub which redirects to tumblr's oauth
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kylewm
indieauthception
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KartikPrabhu
<BOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGG>
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aaronpk
yeah, the user would basically just skip past silo.pub with a redirect and see the tumblr login screen. you wouldn't need to show them anything on silo.pub for that
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kylewm
exactly
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aaronpk
so that means ultimately you do control all three endpoints, so you don't need to implement either red arrow
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: there are a bunch of examples of webapp2 stuff in bridgy et al, do you want me to dig up some?
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KartikPrabhu
sure. i don't know if they'll help since response object is just refusing to set the header
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KevinMarks_
Which header? They strip some: https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/python/requests#Python_Responses
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: KartikPrabhu: i assume you saw <http://webapp-improved.appspot.com/> ?
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KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks_: I am setting a header on the response to application/xml and it insists on keeping the /text/html
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: regardless, i can commiserate, learning new frameworks, libs, etc is always annoying
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: check out https://github.com/snarfed/granary/blob/master/activitystreams.py#L70
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: yes using that as reference.
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KartikPrabhu
very bad docs I must say
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: inside a get method it seems to be working. But i can initialize a response object in some other function and change its headers
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: webapp2 isn't required. use whatever framework you like!
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KartikPrabhu
but it was promised as simpler!
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KartikPrabhu
Django is overkill for something like this
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KartikPrabhu
decides to work on a photos post instead.
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aaronpk
photos++
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Loqi
photos has 1 karma
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aaronpk
now you can use quill to post photos to your micropub endpoint btw
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: but you already know django. simple is relative
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KartikPrabhu
in that case I can just ste up the service on my site with 3 lines
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@AlexKKearney
RT @rhiaro: Indiewebcamp Edinburgh closes with giant nachos at the Auld Hoose. http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/indiewebcamp-edinburgh-closes https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/625368298100781056/photo/1 (twtr.io/123PSt3d2TE)
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: webapp2 definitely is "objectively" simpler. I'm sure we can get the header fixed... but on your site sounds good too!
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: advocating app engine is low on my list of priorities here
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: your call!
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KartikPrabhu
what is a good status code to return if the atom conversion fails?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "good status code to return if the atom conversion fails" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100S
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aaronpk
500?
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KartikPrabhu
hmm ok
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aaronpk
do you know why it failed?
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7YUAACSOS
If it's a known failure mode, I'd personally drift away from 500 which I tend to use for unknown or unexpected failure modes
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aaronpk
yeah i was about to revise my answer :)
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7YUAACSOS
Assuming the conversion is completely functional, a 400 would make sense I guess.
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7YUAACSOS
Since they must've given bad input
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aaronpk
i'm assuming the failure would happen on an invalid atom feed
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KevinMarks_
Interesting http://brettterpstra.com/2012/09/26/github-tip-easily-sync-your-master-to-github-pages/
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aaronpk
er, invalid h-feed
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KevinMarks_
Or lack of a h-feed/h-entry? Or would that just make an empty atom feed?
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7YUAACSOS
An invalid feed as in "does not exist" smells like a 400, but a problem with the feed itself.. There is a code for an upstream error I think.
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7YUAACSOS
wants to say 502
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7YUAACSOS
Which clarifies the error more than a generic 500
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aaronpk
502 = bad gateway?
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: yeah, i think in general if you try to initialize your own Response object (in any framework) you're going to have a bad time
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myfreeweb
hi everyone! haven't been there in a while. made some vanilla js web components https://github.com/myfreeweb/indieweb-components right now there's indie-action and fragmention-target, mostly based on existing code
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KartikPrabhu
ok hfeed2atom service up an running on my own site see aaronpk's feed : https://kartikprabhu.com/hfeed2atom?url=https://aaronparecki.com :)
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KartikPrabhu
myfreeweb: ooo <fragmention> component looks interesting. though not a big fan of web components. smell like XML, make-your-own-tags
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kylewm
woohoo, I got Quill to post to Tumblr through silo.pub using Tumblr's own auth
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kylewm
no involvement from indieauth.com
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aaronpk
\o/
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kylewm
now just have to do the same thing for blogger and wordpress before I can ship it :P
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aaronpk
shouldn't be a stretch
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kylewm
no, I've definitely figured out the tricky parts now
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kylewm
thanks again for your help
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aaronpk
no problem!
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aaronpk
happy to help people put indieauth.com out of business ;)
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kylewm
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 909 karma
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KevinMarks
kylewm++
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Loqi
kylewm has 197 karma
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KevinMarks
this is the magic url trick?
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: woo nice work shipping everyone!
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Rhiaro.co.uk * uploaded "[[File:2015-07-25 Edinburgh.JPG]]": Edinburgh 2015 group photo
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rhiaro
Damnit wrong photo
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Jeena
so what beer do you guys drink in scotland? http://rhiaro.co.uk/photos/1507iwcedi/nachos.jpg
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7YUAACSOS
Random local ales
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rhiaro
How do I delete it?
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aaronpk
i think only admins can
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Aaronparecki.com * deleted "[[File:2015-07-25 Edinburgh.JPG]]": http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-26/line/1437944605508
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rhiaro
thanks aaronpk
#
Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Rhiaro.co.uk * uploaded "[[File:2015-07-25 Edinburgh.jpg]]": Edinburgh group photo
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KevinMarks
myfreeweb: those look great
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kevinmarks.com
edited /fragmention (+166) "/* Open Source */ add fragmention-target" (view diff)
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KevinMarks
hm, where should I add the indie-action one?
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KevinMarks
http://indiewebcamp.com/indie-action is a bit sprawling
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voxpelli
KevinMarks: web actions
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voxpelli
indie-action is the implementation tag for that one
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M-Kegan
right, this should be better
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KevinMarks
webactions is missing a ToC
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M-Kegan
is 7YUAACSOS
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh (+59) "Photo" (view diff)
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@matrixdotorg
Matrix had loads of fun (and nachos) at #indiewebcamp Edinburgh this weekend - thanks everyone who chatted with us! https://twitter.com/rhiaro/status/625368298100781056 (twtr.io/123ZxhAckAU)
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /IndieWebCamps (+2818) "Add Brighton and Edinburgh" (view diff)
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aaronpk
so when is the next indiewebcamp then?
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rhiaro
Cambridge, November?
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KevinMarks
wonders why he is getting 400 when he fetches tantek.com now
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GWG
aaronpk, rhiaro: I still want to do IWC NYC if a venue ever opens up
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GWG
And I'm game for another IWC Online
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rhiaro
GWG: sure I'd help organise NYC... that's close to Boston, right?
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rhiaro
help to the extent I can as a stranger in a city
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GWG
rhiaro: The issue isn't organization, it is facilities. I haven't been able to find a venue.
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GWG
rhiaro: Define close. There is a bus you can get on for $10-20 that takes 4 hours each way
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GWG
It has wifi
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rhiaro
I took that last year for a single day in NYC
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GWG
So, not insurmountable
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GWG
So far, the best offer I've had is hosting the Homebrew Website Club in the back of a deli on 37th street
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GWG
Wifi not provided
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GWG
But my Karma Go may ship soon
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poka
why not a 2-line shellscript to finger your friends to grab the latest .plan file. so much easier than fiddling with post-SGML dreck
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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anomalily
Hey all. I'm here to tell you guys that Aaron has a book to turn into O'Reilly and he's not allowed to come play with you guys until he finishes!
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GWG
anomalily: I have something to tell you
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GWG
anomalily: Teacup works with the dev version of Micropub now
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poka
web book w/ Dodo cover pls
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GWG
anomalily: And, where is the material you all said you were going to create at IWC earlier this month? Is there anything I can add to the Indieweb plugin?
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GWG
aaronpk: What book?
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anomalily
@GWG His oauth book
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anomalily
I failed miserably to document the stuff at IWC, because I stupidly decided to redesign my website instead
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anomalily
I'm so excited that Teacup works with the dev version of micropub!
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rhiaro
GWG: there's a Le Pain Quotidien in central park, they (in other locations I've been to at least) have free wifi, power sockets and awesome food
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rhiaro
It's my go-to when I'm stuck somewhere in London for a couple of hours with nothing to do
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GWG
rhiaro: We solved the HWC issue, and were going to try a few mid-Manhattan venues. Then zachdonovan got busy.
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GWG
I may try to go it alone at some point.
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GWG
But, can you do a two day event in a cafe?
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GWG
Wouldn't they kick you out?
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rhiaro
oh, I meant for a HWC, not IWC
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GWG
rhiaro: For an HWC, my only issue now is having at least one other person
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rhiaro
Isn't there much tech scene in NYC?
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GWG
rhiaro: I don't know that many people.
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GWG
I admit it
#
GWG
But I think an IWC would get people who might sign up for an HWC
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poka
"AJAX. All browsers support it" , someone talk some sense into Melvin
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KevinMarks
wow, about.me is abusive. Try to iframe it, it refreshes the top level
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KevinMarks
!tell tantek I am sometimes getting 400 errors when fetching http://tanttk.com (note no /)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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anomalily
!tell aaronpk to work on his book
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed
lol
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GWG
snarfed: I think I won't be using the reviewer to try and get feedback
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snarfed
GWG: sgtm
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KevinMarks
aaronpk needs some more important task so he can procrastinate that by writing his book http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/001079
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GWG
snarfed: He was at IWC Edinburgh. He has a Wordpress.com site. They don't permit third-party plugins.
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Loqi
[bridgy] Matrix favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/624627292413628416)
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@ken_bauer
Feel free to as me about #flipclass #ccourses #OpenEducation #IndieWeb @TecdeMty #Tec21 #ProfesoresTec21 (twtr.io/123kkHPjeFC)
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@papapelz
Vorher schon auf GitHub, weil deren App ja die Betroffene ist. Und ich komm mir so ein klitzekleines bisschen nerdig vor. #indieweb (twtr.io/123mEfq_S3j)
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@veganstraightedge
Thanks to @t for publishing this #indieweb 2014 recap. It's important to look back on our accomplishments sometimes. http://tantek.com/2015/201/b1/indiewebcamp-2014-year-review (twtr.io/123rhdqJaSx)
#
GWG
!tell acegiak Some of what I'm doing is up in the GIthub repo, if you want to look
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@MicropubInfo
July 26, 2015 5:32am: July 26, 2015 7:25am GMT-0700 · ← → Notes · Articles · Notes · Replies · Metrics · Pages... https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/26/1/micropub-indieweb&ct=ga&cd=CAIyHDNlNjg4ODQzODIxNzA0ZmU6Y28udWs6ZW46R0I&usg=AFQjCNHD0b1gOfFxD_bSXcVTyT-nQNqjwg&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twtr.io/123re0dxqw0)
#
kylewm
complains about documentation that uses "authentication" and "authorization" interchangably
#
kylewm
#justindiewebthings
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kylewm
specifically wordpress.com
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kylewm
(that said, their API is great and such a big difference from the walled gardeny silos)
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GWG
kylewm: As I said, you should try for the new REST API
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GWG
http://v2.wp-api.org/
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GWG
I think it is similar, but they are trying to refine it before integration
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kylewm
GWG: I don't really want to encourage self-hosted Wordpress users to use silo.pub
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kylewm
they should use the Micropub plugin right?
#
GWG
kylewm: If the standard is clarified on the subject of editing, yes
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#
kylewm
what are you working on this evening, GWG?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "you working on this evening, GWG" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100T
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kylewm
!give Loqi a sock
#
Loqi
gives a sock to Loqi
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kylewm
gives Loqi a sock
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Loqi
eyes the sock
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ben_thatmustbeme
!give kylewm a hard time
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Loqi
gives a hard time to kylewm
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kylewm
amen
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kylewm
oh man this is very confusing. I want to get authorization credentials from Wordpress.com, but later also want to use it as an identity provider ... should I create two different "Applications" for those two purposes?
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kylewm
because the SiloPub Wp.com application only allows one redirect_uri to be used, and I don't know how to use the same one for those two very different purposes...
#
aaronpk
you're kidding me
#
Loqi
aaronpk: anomalily left you a message 2 hours, 48 minutes ago: to work on his book http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-26/line/1437952163915
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aaronpk
tehe I am don't worry
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aaronpk
kylewm: that's is bad form on wordpress.com's part. but the way to get around it is to use the "state" parameter
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aaronpk
you can do state=123123124123-authz and state=123124123124-id and then your app can know what to do
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aaronpk
see this is why i am writing a book on OAuth :)
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kylewm
ok, that makes sense...
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kylewm
haha, yes! back to work!
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GWG
aaronpk: I'm sorry to say I'm not planning to read it
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aaronpk
haha
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GWG
But if for some reason I decide to implement oauth, your book will be my first stop
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kylewm
will read it
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kylewm
I have to say http://grant.codes/ is the coolest domain thus far, sorry yourmom.io
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GWG
aaronpk: Have you written any other books?
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GWG
And why is anomalily coming in here to tell us not to distract you?
#
GWG
By the way, hope we aren't?
#
GWG
Did you offer her a free copy?
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@AdGoggleKo
RT @conflictmedia: Cool and important work is done on #federation & #decentralization http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html http://indiewebcamp.com/ @w3c #i… (twtr.io/1244qPpfCsG)
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tantek
aaronpk++ for peacekeeping
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Loqi
tantek: KevinMarks left you a message 6 hours, 2 minutes ago: I am sometimes getting 400 errors when fetching http://tantek.com (note no /) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-26/line/1437950846670
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Loqi
aaronpk has 910 karma
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tantek
aaronpk - would it be bad to edit that typo tanttk to fix a mistaken link?
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tantek
(in the logs)
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tantek
rhiaro++ for a successful #IndieWebCamp Edi!
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Loqi
rhiaro has 134 karma
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tantek
jarofgreen++ for a successful #IndieWebCamp Edi!
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Loqi
jarofgreen has 3 karma
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KevinMarks_
So please fix my typo
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tantek
aaronpk ^^^
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@energyovertime
Geeking out. Set up personal domain hosting via github pages, web sign-in via indieauth, validated my profiles via http://indiewebify.me/validate-rel-me/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbradleyallen.info (twtr.io/124HMbAGfY5)
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