#indiewebcamp 2015-08-27

2015-08-27 UTC
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GWG Evening
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tantek Evening GWG
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GWG It's Wednesday
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GWG Any exciting HWC things?
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Loqi [mention] Julien Genestoux liked a post that linked to an event: "Homebrew Website Club Meetup" http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/FANIza6BbyoSAUwAXMPkFw
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[kevinmarks] Nearly at the Creamery.
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: I've been working on flickr integration with brid.gy - bridgy pulls content from socal sites and feeds it back to you (twitter.com/_/status/636716194440085504)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: micropub is the other direction from webmention - it's an api for posting to a blogging site (twitter.com/_/status/636717659556589571)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: https://silo.pub/ bridges from the micropub api to wordpress, tumblr, blogger and now twitter (twitter.com/_/status/636717789408047104)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @roombaghost: I want to use my site as a tool for myself and to publish for other people (twitter.com/_/status/636718659789017088)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @roombaghost: I use a tool called arena - it's like a research based pinterest and I have a collection of animals (twitter.com/_/status/636718889838231552)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @roombaghost: I would like one of the things I post on my site is these kinds of collections - I'd like to dogfood it that way (twitter.com/_/status/636719050782019584)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @schnarfed: dogfooding is when you build somthing you should use it for a real task yourself to make sure it is useful (twitter.com/_/status/636719244596629504)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @roombaghost: I'm not sure how to build it - I am using the arena site to post ti to as well (twitter.com/_/status/636719434485342208)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @schnarfed: that's what we call POSSE- you post on your own site but bring back the community stuff to your own site (twitter.com/_/status/636719538726391808)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: you need to decide whether you want to post your site first and then send it versus bring it back the other way (twitter.com/_/status/636719704787259392)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I'm thinking about slack integrations and what aaronpk was saying about replacing irc with webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/636721653347680257)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @schnarfed: other than constantly fixing facebook bugs in bridgy, I've been trying to rad more things in af eed reader (twitter.com/_/status/636722242257317888)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @schnarfed: other than constantly fixing facebook bugs in bridgy, I've been trying to rad more things in af eed r… (twitter.com/_/status/636722368648351744)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @schnarfed: facebook is now making it so that you can't read your news feed through the api any more, so I had to workaround (twitter.com/_/status/636722372817604609)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @schnarfed: facebook is now making it so that you can't read your news feed through the api any more, so I had to… (twitter.com/_/status/636722557551415296)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I also updated http://pestagram.com to have full size images and videos in as well, so you can subscribe to them (twitter.com/_/status/636723786423869441)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @schnarfed: I want to encourage people to author more raw html rather than waiting to tool up to make an indie event etc (twitter.com/_/status/636724016775069696)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I manually posse'd a post to buzzfeed and their editor is interesting as it has a series of blocks (twitter.com/_/status/636724696575287296)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @schnarfed: we kind of went astray with explicit post types - to decide what you are making (twitter.com/_/status/636724834605617152)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: we could separate the authoring of special types from the posting using micropub (twitter.com/_/status/636725228727607297)
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GWG KevinMarks: As the narrator, I need more data on this last explicit post types/micropub line of conversation
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @roombaghost: I found a repost of this event before I found the original one, but it worked (twitter.com/_/status/636725473427484672)
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KevinMarks we can go into it in irc later
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @roombaghost: designers don't always post their past work, or have it viewable - I want things to be viewable (twitter.com/_/status/636725844434485248)
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aaronpk interesting idea from anomalily tonight, of creating an "indieweb friendly" badge and reaching out to indieweb-friendly products and services and seeing if they want to add the badge to their websites
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aaronpk specific example being the wordpress plugin she uses to pesos instagram photos to her website
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: aaron has a tool spiderpig for archiving sites so they can be statically served to preserve design choices too (twitter.com/_/status/636726316839141376)
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aaronpk spiderpig in action: http://geoloqi.com http://developers.geoloqi.com
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @roombaghost: I have a project called living aggregator that uses kimono to redisplay he content in a way the original design (twitter.com/_/status/636726581319323650)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club (+188) "/* Portland */ update attendees" (view diff)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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@kevinmarks @JaneBozarth @kylewmahan https://www.brid.gy/ explains a bit more or see http://indiewebcamp.com/bridgy (twitter.com/_/status/636735423029493760)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:20150826-hwcpdx.jpg]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club (+119) "pdx photo!" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] someone wrote a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood https://webmention.io/notification/fjDoKpWAuvxTsF0VXbk1aA
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mblaney yay I got POSSEing to twitter working today!
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mblaney that made my day. bridgy++
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mblaney bridgy++?
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Loqi bridgy has 22 karma
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@putrasembada08 Terima Kasih kpd @Indiewebhost yg tlah menjadi official partner dlm mnyediakan kperluan website kami. Sukses selalu! http://indieweb.biz (twitter.com/_/status/636764337072246784)
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@kylewmahan Liked: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/08/26/2/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/636773138798284800)
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@kylewmahan Reposted: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/08/26/2/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/636773185426292737)
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KartikPrabhu mblaney: karma (++) is supposed to be the first thing :)
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kylewm !tell KevinMarks the experience for woodwind -> silopub+twitter should be much better now, it checks for syndication links if you reply to an indieweb post, or if not it just prepends the reply with "Re: url,..."
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm !tell KevinMarks same deal with likes and reposts!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks nice
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Loqi KevinMarks: kylewm left you a message 24 seconds ago: the experience for woodwind -> silopub+twitter should be much better now, it checks for syndication links if you reply to an indieweb post, or if not it just prepends the reply with "Re: url,..." http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-26/line/1440654044838
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Loqi KevinMarks: kylewm left you a message 12 seconds ago: same deal with likes and reposts! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-26/line/1440654059657
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kylewm thank you for pointing out that that was needed :)
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KevinMarks I think we're really close to subsuming twitter in the reader/comment/mention loop
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mblaney KartikPrabhu++ thanks :-)
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 114 karma
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KartikPrabhu there we go!
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mblaney looking through the indiemark list, I think I'll look into webactions next.
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Loqi [bridgy] Kyle Mahan replied '@aaronpk It might be kinda fun to make chart the most recent photo from each meetup on a google map' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club (https://twitter.com/kylewmahan/status/636774676144873473)
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mblaney oh, no I'm not. webactions is for wrapping 3rdparty sharing buttons but I don't have any on my site.
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mblaney I guess I'll look at posting replies then.
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[kevinmarks] not exactly
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[kevinmarks] 3rd party buttons are the fallback for webactions
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mblaney oh ok. thanks kevinmarks. so I should still consider adding webactions even if I don't want to add 3rdparty fallback?
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tantek mblaney: yes - definitely consider adding webactions even if you don't want to add any fallbacks.
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mblaney hi tantek, I just read your post http://tantek.com/2011/220/b1/web-actions-a-new-building-block
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tantek fallbacks are most useful for the primary place you POSSE to (if you do at all). If you're not POSSEing anywhere, then fallbacks are less interesting. There's potential to use Twitter as a place for people to leave comments if they don't have their own site, but that's about it.
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mblaney and have a better idea what they are now, thanks.
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tantek great! glad that was helpful.
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tantek mblaney: also consider adding yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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mblaney ok I still need to get my head around where webactions go if they don't go to twitter.
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tantek they go to others' sites!
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mblaney ok will do.
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mblaney yeah that bit still seems a bit magic :-)
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tantek (or including your own - you can reply to your own posts after all)
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tantek indeed - that magic was figured out by voxpelli - see /indie-config for more on that
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mblaney aah I was wondering if I need to look into indie-config next.
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mblaney this is quite a world of inter-connected parts you have all built :-)
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KartikPrabhu inter-connected-parts++
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Loqi inter-connected-parts has 1 karma
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tantek inter-connected-parts++
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Loqi inter-connected-parts has 2 karma
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mblaney I'm not seeing the connection between indie-action web components, and the ability to register a protocol handler.
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mblaney does 'web+action' have special meaning?
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mblaney I'll keep looking into it, but if anyone wants to help me along that would be great :-)
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tantek mblaney - it has special meaning only in that we chose to use it and make it meaningful
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voxpelli Not sure what you're not sure about :)
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tantek it is made up purely for the use in indie-actions
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tantek s/indie-actions/indie-config
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Loqi tantek meant to say: it is made up purely for the use in indie-config
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mblaney I'm wondering how 'web+action' and <indie-action> are related.
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voxpelli One is a way to figure out what the preferred action of the other should be
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mblaney I think I get it, just watched this http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/09/10/1/webactions
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mblaney the missing link for me is the browser pops up a dialog to associate the two things together.
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tantek mblaney or a drop-down "door hanger" from below the toolbar/addressbar
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tantek which BTW should happen for you on your own site only
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tantek and that's so that you can click on web action buttons on other sites, and have them trigger the web action endpoints on *your* site so you can reply/like/repost from your site.
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mblaney great, thanks. I think it will make more sense when I give it a go.
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loqi.me created /progressive_enhancement (+335) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /progressive_enhancement (+339) "articles, including tommorris, see also" (view diff)
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unicyclic.com mal edited /IRC_People (+94) (view diff)
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tantek !tell adactio did you take / could you post a photo from last night's HWC Brighton?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek catches up on the logs
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mblaney it looks like I have to move my page for it to match the IRC list.
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unicyclic.com mal moved /User:Unicyclic.com_mal to /User:Unicyclic.com/mal "match IRC_people"
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pfefferle good morning all
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tantek mblaney: I think you needed to do vice versa
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tantek note that http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=User:Unicyclic.com_mal&redirect=no at the bottom has a "User contributions" link, where as the one you just moved to with the "/" does not.
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mblaney sorry I don't understand what that means?
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tantek look at the bottom of the page, in the footer in one case there is a "User contributions" link, in the other case there isn't
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tantek the page with the "User contributions" link is your *real* user page, and should not be moved
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unicyclic.com mal edited /Special:Log/move () "moved [[User:Unicyclic.com/mal]] to [[User:Unicyclic.com mal]] over redirect: revert" (view diff)
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mblaney ok oops. (reverted)
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@reinergaertner this in encouring. I will keep on POSSEing http://rgae.de/20 thanks, @bastianallgeier for the plugin #indieweb https://twitter.com/marcthiele/status/636126152143294464 (twitter.com/_/status/636814422711906305)
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unicyclic.com mal edited /IRC_People (+0) (view diff)
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tantek hmm - not sure why the logs aren't linking to your site
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tantek aaronpk: check https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-27 - I'm seeing "mblaney" unlinked despite an entry in /irc-people
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mblaney yeah was just going to ask for help, thanks.
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vanderven.se martijn edited /File:2015-07-29-hwc-goteborg.jpg (+7) "Fix link, oops." (view diff)
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /next-hwc (+0) "Redirected page to [[events/2015-08-27-homebrew-website-club]]" (view diff)
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Jeena I wonder how did it go with the first HWC yesterday in Malmoe?
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Loqi [bridgy] Jane Bozarth replied '@kevinmarks @kylewmahan Thanks Kevin--' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/bridgy (https://twitter.com/JaneBozarth/status/636876268198301696)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /File:hwcgot2.jpg (+213) "Person tagging for more complete information." (view diff)
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Zegnat Jeena, did I get all the names right on https://indiewebcamp.com/File:hwcgot2.jpg ?
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@GiantFoxStudios All castles have been built from a stone. This is our webpage from 0 and learning through. #webdev #indieweb #gameweb https://twitter.com/GiantFoxStudios/status/636887313088401408/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/636887313088401408)
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@nxD4n @diplix wie, in einem Silo chatten? das geht ja wohl mal garnicht #indieweb #posse wenn dann nur auf deinem eigenen xmpp server. (twitter.com/_/status/636888939010367488)
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@diplix @nxD4n oder vielleicht sollten wir für jeden gescheiterten webmention ein issue bei github aufmachen? (twitter.com/_/status/636890149557796865)
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kodfabrik.se uploaded /File:2015-08-26-hwc-malmo.jpg "Photo taken by {{voxpelli}} at Homebrew Website Club in Malmö (Sweden) on 2015-08-26."
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kodfabrik.se edited /events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club (+56) "Adding Malmö group photo" (view diff)
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voxpelli I will have to add it to my site a bit later :P My micropub broke and adding photos is easier through Quill than to do it manually
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@quach2 #challenge #OwnYourData #TEDxAA #elementaryStatistics #concentrationInTimeDependentDataAnalysis #ShowMeTheData https://twitter.com/tedtalks/status/636862975115177984 (twitter.com/_/status/636907060366409728)
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GWG So, can someone tell me about this conversation at HWC last night re Micropub and explicit post types?
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@dentonjacobs So close to getting my site changes wrapped up. Nearly done with #indieweb conversion, but I really need to make posting easier. (twitter.com/_/status/636915702994087936)
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kylewm GWG: sure, we had a new person who was talking about wanting to create collection-type posts, with photos and quotes and stuff collected from different places, and snarfed mentioned that many in IWC took a bit of a detour into explicit post types (note,reply, photo, etc.) that didn't really pan out becuase sometimes you want to post a photo as a reply, or sometimes you want to post a quotation with commentary
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@dentonjacobs So close to getting my site changes wrapped up. Nearly done with #indieweb conversion, but I really need to make posting easier. (twitter.com/_/status/636917283709784065)
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kylewm sometimes wonder if we should encourage so many people to require https for their site... when they stop paying attention and their certificate expires, it's almost as bad as an expired domain
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tantek kylewm: yes it hurts maintainability, longevity
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tantek isn't that only a problem for HSTS?
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tantek or is it any cert?
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tantek I wonder if there is a way to put in an auto-time-out for your https support so that if you don't touch it, and the cert expires, it automatically reverts to http-only on that day
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tantek that way either you renew your cert (and update the time-out date)
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tantek or if you forget or neglect the cert, then your site automatically switches to http when the cert expires
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kylewm yeah for non HSTS, you can add an exception
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kylewm but i can't right now add an exception to Woodwind
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tantek but even seeing those warning dialogs is bad
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tantek hence I'm suggesting this as an ALTERNATIVE to HSTS
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kylewm yeah, I think it's a good idea!
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tantek hmm - how to capture this
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Zegnat mod_rewrite has time based variables, I believe. So you should be able to set-up your redirects in such a way that it redirects differently after the cert expires.
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Zegnat I would guess most people are already using mod_rewrite to forward people from non-SSL URLs to the SSL versions already, just needs the extra RewriteCond
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tantek yes that would be a good way to "automatically" do it
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GWG kylewm: Thank you
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kylewm now we have to gameify it so people will actually implement it :P https level 6 = on expiration fallback to http
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Zegnat Although, now that I am thinking about it, will it even work? Will the redirect reach the browser first, or will the expired certificate come first and throw an error?
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kylewm Zegnat: yeah you probably won't be able to redirect from https -> http, but you could at least stop redirecting from http -> https
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rMdes let's hope LetsEncrypt will take of this problematic of renewable SSL cert
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rMdes from their last video presentation at CCCamp this year, it seems it will be able to do just that fine
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rhiaro tantek: can you change the topic to Edinburgh please?
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rhiaro oh wait Edinburgh is there, my client was hiding it
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kylewm does anyone know if it's possible to exclude a repository from your GitHub contributions graph?
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tantek rhiaro: done
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rhiaro thanks
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tbrb arrives early for HWC Edinburgh
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tbrb tonight's personal goals are to support sending webmentions, and have website markup for in-reply-to, like-of and repost-of
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tantek woot!
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Loqi yay!
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tantek did HWC Edi start?
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GWG tantek, you still on European time?
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tantek yes
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tbrb tantek: officially starts in ~ 25 minutes
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tantek tbrb awesome
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aaronparecki.com edited /object-oriented-programming-antipattern (+121) (view diff)
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aaronpk so much nicer catching up on IRC logs on the website than in my IRC client
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tantek.com edited /architecture_astronomy (+128) "add examples section" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /object-oriented-programming-antipattern (+29) "see also astronomy" (view diff)
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GWG Does anyone set an explicit type based on implied types?
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tantek GWG - what do you mean by "set" ?
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GWG I have a field that declares the type for a post.
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GWG The display behavior is partially determined by it
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GWG I would consider it an explicit declaration of type
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Kongaloosh rhiaro: if I'm HWCing remote, do I just sit on IRC?
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rhiaro !tell _fran: whatever illness is keeping you from hwc I think you transmitted to me over irc
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek rhiaro: is HWC Edi a go?
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: talky.io/hwcedi
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Kongaloosh woo!
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GWG I've been doing a rewrite of my Post Kinds plugin and one of the things that I added was some code to set based on incoming Micropub properties. That is implied to explicit
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tbrb tantek: HWC Edi is go
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tbrb waves at Kongaloosh
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Kongaloosh tbrb: \o
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rhiaro We have Geng, tbrb and kitb so far. And kongaloosh remote
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Kongaloosh Intercontinental HWC
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snarfed GWG: ideally you'd just always run the implicit post type algorithm to derive it from the content and other metadata. if you have to store that somewhere, so be it, but you need to remember to update it whenever the post is edited
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legion.ddns.info edited /events/2015-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* Edinburgh */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks GWG the other thing that set us off talking about post types etc was me manually POSSEing to buzzfeed
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@t 24h Homebrew Website Club: Malmö, Götenborg, Brighton, SF, Portland done; now in Edinburgh: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-08-27-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4cu3) (twitter.com/_/status/636945661863325696)
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KevinMarks which mean recreating a post in their editor, as they consider a post as a sequence of blocks
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legion.ddns.info created /Template:legion (+219) "Created page with "<span class="h-card" style="white-space:nowrap"><img src="https://twitter.com/GengLegion/profile_image" class="u-photo" style="height:1.2em;vertical-align:bottom" alt=""><strong ..."" (view diff)
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KevinMarks a block can be a paragraph, an image, a video etc
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KevinMarks which was interesting compared to the Known UI or the Quill/medium one, where this is much less explicit
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legion.ddns.info edited /Template:legion (-74) (view diff)
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davidpeach evenin' all
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@t 24h Homebrew Website Club: Malmö, Göteborg, Brighton, SF, Portland done; now on in Edinburgh https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-08-27-homebrew-website-club (ttk.me t4cu3) (twitter.com/_/status/636947495940157442)
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tantek early enough in the morning Pacific time to delete POSSE tweet and re POSSE - virtual POSSE CRUD update
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legion.ddns.info edited /Template:legion (+2) (view diff)
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rhiaro camerongray and moredhel you are bad a time
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rhiaro s/a/at
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Loqi rhiaro meant to say: catmerongraty atnd moredhel you atre batd at time
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rhiaro sigh
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camerongray Door lockrd
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camerongray tbrb: let me in please
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rhiaro tbrb en route
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camerongray At side door
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rhiaro if anyone else wants to remote in to HWC Edinburgh, talky.io/hwcedi
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legion.ddns.info created /User:Legion.ddns.info (+121) "Created page with "= legion = {{legion}} == Background == Creepy and lazy geek. So... Don't even think you can find anything more!!!!"" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks ‘“The PHP bits were kinda hard. But we found a lot of stuff on Google,” she confides.’ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/27/the_raspberry_pi_is_succeeding_in_ways_its_makers_ialmosti_imagined/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/636948695959777281)
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moredhel Haha, regex
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moredhel But yes, I am pretty crap at it
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tantek has to go eat something
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jonnybarnes when is hwcedi?
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rhiaro jonnybarnes: now!
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KevinMarks hm, how do we tell this chap to use ut- instead of u- for utility ?
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jonnybarnes oh, you seem to need a webcam to use talky at all :(
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KevinMarks http://csswizardry.com/2015/03/more-transparent-ui-code-with-namespaces/
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rhiaro Since last week...
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legion.ddns.info edited /events/2015-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+27) "/* Edinburgh */" (view diff)
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rhiaro tbrb started serving turtle for his blog posts, introduced paging
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rhiaro ... plans to introduce chronological ordering too
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rhiaro ... added support for fenced code blocks
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rhiaro rhiaro: updated /where including note on homepage about where I am now, next event and last checkin
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rhiaro kitb hasn't done anything
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rhiaro camerongray found bugs, didn't fix them
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rhiaro ... will fix today. Django's url validator doesn't support new tlds properly
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rhiaro geng: problems with meteor nodejs framework
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rhiaro ... Tried to make a game using meteor's realtime functionality
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rhiaro kongaloosh: what have you done on your site since last week?
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Kongaloosh rhiaro: I've added linear navigation
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Kongaloosh but it's mostly been just tightening things up
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rhiaro And what'll you do today?
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Kongaloosh refactoring
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Kongaloosh well
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rhiaro moredhel arrives!
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Kongaloosh i did linear nav today
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rhiaro kongaloosh hamish is waving at you
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Kongaloosh I'm going to be doing some ux/ui
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rhiaro moredhel is trying to deply a lisp website
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Kongaloosh and I'll be fixing my manky mf2 setup
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Kongaloosh which is evidently wrong.
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legion.ddns.info edited /events/2015-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+7) "/* Edinburgh */" (view diff)
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Kongaloosh rhiaro,tbrb,moredhel: what's everyone's site?
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Kongaloosh I wanna add them to woodwind!
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tbrb harryreeder.co.uk
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moredhel haven't set it up yet, still struggling
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tbrb Woodwind?
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tbrb What is woodwind?
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Loqi Woodwind is Kyle Mahan's minimalist open source indie reader https://indiewebcamp.com/Woodwind
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tbrb Thanks Loqi <3
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Loqi you're welcome
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KevinMarks BTW, now silo.pub supports twitter, you can sign up for woodwind with a twitter account
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KevinMarks and reply, like and retweet the feed into twitter, which is kind of fun
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rhiaro hwc edi group photo achieved
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aaronpk !!!
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Kongaloosh I thought I was looking at the ceiling for a moment
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Kongaloosh and then I realized there was a person on a balcony
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Kongaloosh feels included
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KevinMarks except silo.pub is down today :(
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GWG Do we have a.. You might want to follow Indiewebcamp list?
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aaronpk oh noes what happened to silo.pub?
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jonnybarnes i was about to say
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jonnybarnes I’m getting internal server error
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KevinMarks kylewm: did that hsts thing happen to silo.pub?
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kylewm ack
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aaronpk ssl cert looks fine it's just internal server error
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rhiaro http://rhiaro.co.uk/photos/150827_hwc_edi_group.jpg
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kylewm I just messed up the deploy
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kylewm it's up now, sorry
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Kongaloosh oh, camerongray is here!
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snarfed human error, the cause of most outages :P
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kylewm :)
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rhiaro.co.uk uploaded /File:150827_hwc_edi_group.jpg "HWC Edinburgh group photo"
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ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro++
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Loqi rhiaro has 154 karma
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rhiaro.co.uk edited /events/2015-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+36) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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kylewm cool photo from edinburgh!
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Jeena nice
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KevinMarks ooh, I have 3 images uploaded to svgur.com not by me now
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KevinMarks I should finish the 'mung to png' code
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Loqi agreed.
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Kongaloosh back in prosthetics lab; ran out of battery.
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rhiaro Kongaloosh: we were theorising about what might have happened to canada
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KevinMarks odd, woodwind is saying amy's posts are from 14 days ago
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@IndieWebCampUK Homebrew Website Club Edinburgh.. If you missed it, same time next week! https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampUK/status/636959415162269696/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/636959415162269696)
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KevinMarks oh wait, that post si 2 weeks old. so it's not seeing new posts
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KevinMarks http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/08/hwc-edinburgh and http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/08/hwc-edinburgh-3
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rhiaro Uhoh what have I messed up
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KevinMarks http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=http%3A%2F%2Frhiaro.co.uk%2F&html=&pretty=on looks OK
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KevinMarks maybe mf2util isn't finding the entries?
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Kongaloosh Herm, I can't get the webmention.io mention-counter to work :S
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Kongaloosh ohp
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Kongaloosh I bet I need to add an access token parameter
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aaronpk Kongaloosh: i can make your account public too, then you won't need an acces token
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Kongaloosh ohp, that would be great!
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aaronpk what's your domain?
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Kongaloosh kongaloosh.com
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aaronpk hm it is already public
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Kongaloosh oh, then I must be doing something odd.
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aaronpk oh i see there are two... one on your account and another on the "pingback" account which was probably mis-copied from an example
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Kongaloosh that's probably the case.
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Kongaloosh lemmie check this out
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aaronpk this works http://webmention.io/api/count?target=http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/8/26/im-a-bit-stumped-right-now-im-trying-to-figure-out-what-to-work-on-next-for-my-site
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Kongaloosh indeed
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Kongaloosh okay
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Kongaloosh I think I know what's causing this.
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Kongaloosh thanks!
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@kevinmarks @t who else is in Seattle and interested in #indieweb? (twitter.com/_/status/636966290842750976)
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KevinMarks hm, that didn't reply the way I expected
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@jimpick RT @kevinmarks: @t who else is in Seattle and interested in #indieweb? (twitter.com/_/status/636966612365475840)
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Kongaloosh hmm, so I used the example
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Kongaloosh like this: <span data-indieweb-comment-count="" data-url="http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/8/26/im-a-bit-stumped-right-now-im-trying-to-figure-out-what-to-work-on-next-for-my-site"></span>
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kylewm KevinMarks: was that reply from silopub?
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KevinMarks did you change something rhiaro ?
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KevinMarks yes
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KevinMarks kylewm: I replied to http://tantek.com/2015/238/t2/add-seattle-homebrew-website-club in woodwind logged in wiht silo.pub
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rhiaro KevinMarks: I don't think I did since last time it worked in woodwind
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rhiaro Not templates
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Loqi [bridgy] Kevin Marks replied '@t who else is in Seattle and interested in #indieweb?' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club#Up-and-coming_Meetings (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/636966290842750976)
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aaronpk Kongaloosh: looks like the data-url value has to be just the path
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KevinMarks oh, that did work as a reply
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aaronpk hm
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KevinMarks sorry kyle
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aaronpk nvm the js handle that
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kylewm KevinMarks: rhiaro: it was my fault, not yours ... choking on a encoding issue ... related question, does anybody have a guess why python's SMTPHandler for sending crash reports over email doesn't work from the task queue??
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aaronpk kylewm: if my research into GAE yesterday is any indication (which it's probably not) it's that the network stack is super limited
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kylewm oh not GAE
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aaronpk oh
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kylewm (don't get me started on python-requests and GAE)
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KevinMarks kylewm: now seeing this: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/odd-n-in-woodwind
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kylewm yeah, still researching how to fix...
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aaronpk Kongaloosh: oh... the example is wrong
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Kongaloosh oho!
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kylewm i think it's doing that obnoxious thing where it converts b'blah\nblah\nblah' to "b'blah\nblah\nblah'"
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Kongaloosh aaronpk: ! I got it
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Kongaloosh yup
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Kongaloosh I forgot to add an attribute
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aaronpk updated the example code on the home page
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Kongaloosh cool, thanks!
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Kongaloosh aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 945 karma
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aaronpk woo
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KevinMarks aaronpk: snarfed said to add a credit card to GAE to enable requests
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aaronpk yeah
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kylewm rhiaro: is it intentional that you have "h-card p-url" sometimes?
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rhiaro Uh
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rhiaro Maybe.. Maybe that's leftover from when I dumped URLs for people and didn't have names stored
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rhiaro Is that causing a problem?
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kylewm not really, i'm just not handling it properly, didn't expect to have a {} value for a url
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kylewm i finally figured out why i wasn't getting error reports, now i am expecting a lot more emails :p
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KevinMarks hm, now I'm getting failure when I try to post tot twitter from woodwind
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KevinMarks kylewm++ for putting up with me breaking things by wiring them together
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Loqi kylewm has 224 karma
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kylewm KevinMarks++ nonono, thank you for testing!
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Loqi KevinMarks has 155 karma
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kylewm ok silo.pub errors should be fixed now too...
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[snarfed] kylewm++
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[snarfed] KevinMarks++
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Loqi kylewm has 225 karma
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Loqi KevinMarks has 156 karma
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@LukasRosenstock The new "Maker" channel at @IFTTT - essentially #webhooks - might be interesting for #IndieWeb #POSSE or #PESOS: https://ifttt.com/maker?utm_content=buffer09202&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/636977261330231296)
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@AlexKKearney I added a nice little counter at the corner of each post on my stream for replies and mentions. #indieweb #hwc http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/8/27/i-added-a-nice-little-counter-at-the-corner-of-each-post-on-my-stream (twitter.com/_/status/636978272417415168)
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davidpeach could I get an impartial opinion on my reply context display please? been messing with it for two days. http://davidpea.ch/notes/1508
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Kongaloosh davidpeach: what about it?
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davidpeach just first impression really. Got two icon arrows and not sure about. Also just wanna make sure it's obvious what is the reply and which is context - sorry for the vagueness.
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Kongaloosh mmmm
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Kongaloosh I thought the two icons was a bit too much
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KevinMarks so, silo.pub doesn't send webmentions for the tweets/blogposts it makes?
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Kongaloosh instead I'd push the post your's is in response to a little to the right
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Kongaloosh like an indentation
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Kongaloosh and maybe remove the response arrow on the bottom
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davidpeach ahh oki. thanks man, appreciate it
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Kongaloosh davidpeach: mines still a bit manky, but I do it like this: http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/8/27/i-added-a-nice-little-counter-at-the-corner-of-each-post-on-my-stream
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Kongaloosh with shading and slight background differences.
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davidpeach oh okay nice
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Kongaloosh aaaaand I broke my webmentioner. . .
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kylewm KevinMarks: no it doesnt' send webmentions yet
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kylewm wow IFTTT finallysupports webhooks!!?
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myfreeweb wow IFTTT is still alive? :)
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kylewm i honestly never thought that would happen
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[snarfed] wow that is big news
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[snarfed] could open up a bunch of lightweight automation for indieweb uses
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unrelenting.technology edited /User:Unrelenting.technology (+122) "/* Projects */ add indieweb-algorithms" (view diff)
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[snarfed] btw KevinMarks kylewm if you sign a blog up for bridgy-for-blogs, it'll send wms when you post via silo.pub... but you already knew that :P
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snarfed ...ooh that actually makes me think of an interesting new bridgy feature idea: send outbound webmentions for silo posts
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snarfed (and render them as mf2 like usual so that recipients can parse them)
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KevinMarks right, but I can't sign a twitter account up for bridgy for blogs, can I?
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snarfed right, that combo only works for blogger, wp.com, and tumblr
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snarfed for twitter, you'd need this new feature
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unrelenting.technology edited /User:Unrelenting.technology (+60) "fix link" (view diff)
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unrelenting.technology edited /Haskell (+764) "add examples and libraries" (view diff)
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Kongaloosh I just realized
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Kongaloosh that I left chat up
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Kongaloosh : )
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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snarfed KevinMarks: filed, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/452
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KevinMarks can I construct a brid.gy url for an arbitray tweet, or only one you have seen?
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snarfed KevinMarks: arbitrary. https://www.brid.gy/about#source-urls
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snarfed if you want silo-to-mf2 outside of bridgy, you can also construct https://granary-demo.appspot.com/ urls that do the same thing
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snarfed they include oauth tokens as query params though so not public appropriate
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Kongaloosh gooooodbye hwc edi
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kylewm note that if you construct a bridgy URL for an arbitrary tweet that bridgy hasn't seen before, it will not run the posse-post-discovery
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KevinMarks that's fine in this case
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snarfed right
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KevinMarks aha: http://svgur.com/s/1c
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KevinMarks in fact that's how I can fix the issue 51 problem
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KevinMarks where bridgy thought my tweet was a posse copy of that page
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snarfed fix it how?
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KevinMarks the top reply at http://svgur.com/s/1c was suppressed by issue-51
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KevinMarks but I can add it in
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snarfed ahhhh
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snarfed yes you can send a wm manually
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snarfed and that raises a good point re the new feature: we'd need to omit links to your own domain(s)
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KevinMarks not necessarily
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snarfed either that or actually figure out issue 51 X(
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KevinMarks figure out 51 is my choice
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snarfed ooh are you volunteering? :P
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KevinMarks you're nerdsniping me into running my own bridgy instance?
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snarfed oh god no, just into wading through all the tradeoffs in trying to solve #51 and figuring out the best answer
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snarfed for example, the 24h heuristic wouldn't work for that tweet of yours, since it was at roughly the same time as the svgur.com post
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KevinMarks right
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snarfed nor would the other leading heuristic there - only consider links to the author's domain(s) - since svgur.com is one of your domains :P
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KevinMarks maybe it's a differnt framing
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snarfed hence why i've avoided that issue like the plague!
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snarfed sure! humans can definitely use framing etc tell the difference. i just don't know if we've found an algorithm for that yet
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KevinMarks the reason we don't want to send a POSSE copy is that it looks like you double-posted
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KevinMarks so maybe the answer is more about edit distance
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KevinMarks thing is, I do want debcha's reply on that post
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snarfed sure!
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KevinMarks but I wanted my tweet too, as it has info that isn't in the source
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snarfed right
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snarfed not sure about edit distance though. e.g i often posse full articles to twitter with custom teaser quotes
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KevinMarks again, I don't think that is a bad thing to send as a webmention
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KevinMarks I do that a lot too
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snarfed yeah maybe so
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KevinMarks it may be that it's only in the case where the tweet and the source post are the same
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snarfed so maybe they're two separate heuristics. 1) should we backfeed the "original" silo post, 2) should we backfeed responses
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KevinMarks in the same way we do note detection (is the title ~= body) do note POSSE detection
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snarfed maybe
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snarfed possed notes that have a small suffix elided are a tough case then
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snarfed maybe we just use a comparison threshold
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KevinMarks right - some kind of similarity ratio
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snarfed i'm still not excited about actually implementing this, but i agree this is a reasonable heuristic
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snarfed that's progress!
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snarfed so that's the heuristic for 1). how about 2)?
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snarfed do we just always backfeed responses to any backlink to one of your domains?
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KevinMarks how do you currently decide not to?
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KevinMarks in other words, what are you trying to prevent?
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snarfed say, when you mention one of your posts in a conversation, but the conversation isn't really about that post
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snarfed finding an example
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snarfed good example: https://snarfed.org/podcasts#comments
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KevinMarks right, but sending your sunglasses comment without maxogden's is what makes it odd
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KevinMarks if you's sent the whole thread, that would have made sense, but partially suppressing them is what makes it a non sequitur
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snarfed i guess, yeah
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KevinMarks similarly on http://svgur.com/
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/MikeTufekci/status/590605383695204352 shows up without context
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@MikeTufekci @kevinmarks or better yet a PDF or docx viewer ;-) (twitter.com/_/status/590605383695204352)
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snarfed right, ok, makes sense
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snarfed the edit distance thing is going to be hard
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snarfed e.g. this post https://snarfed.org/2015-08-26_15313 is basically the same as the posse tweet https://twitter.com/schnarfed/status/636656504662302721 , so i wouldn't want to backfeed the posse tweet
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@schnarfed @zhenghuali: "I've learned 3 things at Color: for any topic, @schnarfed has a blog post, @huy has a cartoon, and @youssefmss is against it." (twitter.com/_/status/636656504662302721)
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snarfed but the literal texts are pretty far apart, due to @usernames vs names, etc
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KevinMarks and 3 vs three
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KevinMarks you could be forgiven for that one being a false positve
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snarfed sigh yeah
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snarfed i keep trying to weasel out of doing this, and you keep preventing me :P
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KevinMarks but you do post a u-syndication
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KevinMarks so you could suppress that one directly
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snarfed good point
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snarfed thanks for talking through this with me!
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snarfed it all seems pretty reasonable and doable
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KevinMarks I think the correlation between "re-edited twitter summary" and syndication links is likely to be good
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snarfed maybe!
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snarfed at least within bridgy userrs
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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snarfed evening!
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tantek catches up on logs
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tantek deletes more iOS apps to get back more space
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GWG -->: Good evening, snarfed and tantek
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tantek good evening to you too GWG, snarfed !
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tantek nice HWC Edi photo rhiaro !
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tantek I don't see SF's photo here: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club#Photos but everyone else is up there!
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tantek looks like a tie between Portland and Edinburgh!
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snarfed KevinMarks has SF's photo: http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/homebrew-website-club-sf-indieweb
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@AlexKKearney Me pretending I'm actually at the#HWC in Edinburgh. #indieweb http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/8/27/me-pretending-im-actually-at-the-homebrew-web-camp-in-edinburgh (twitter.com/_/status/637017275745345537)
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tantek KevinMarks: upload HWC SF photo to wiki?
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@AlexKKearney Here's some notes from #HWCEDI. #indieweb http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/8/27/its-happened-ive-turned-into-a-robot https://twitter.com/AlexKKearney/status/637021514349551616/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/637021514349551616)
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tantek gah - I just posted TWO photos to IG and got FIVE spam taggings (where they tag your name in a comment or on a photo that's just an add to get more followers / likes).
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Kongaloosh tantek: for such a closed ecosystem, you'd think they'd have less issues with that stuff.
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tantek Kongaloosh: it's getting worse and worse
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kevinmarks.com uploaded /File:hwc2015-08-26sf.jpg "Hombrew Website Club SF 2015-08-26"
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Kongaloosh Oh, I've not used IG very much...
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Kongaloosh Was it better before?
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tantek on the plus side, they just changed their UI to NOT REQUIRE SQUARE PHOTOS
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tantek less spammy
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tantek but the rest of the app does just keep improving
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kevinmarks.com edited /events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club (+85) "/* SF photo */" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club (-27) "/* Portland */" (view diff)
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Kongaloosh mmmm.... but the quality of the app means nothing if the community is going down-hill
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KevinMarks I get my photos liked by spambots, all using the samw set of photos
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tantek the community itself is still good - spammers are not community - they're attackers
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Kongaloosh That's a better way of putting it, you're right.
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Kongaloosh but if people are trying to break into a community
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tantek happens to any popular community
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Kongaloosh and most of their interaction is with bots, that's going to suck.
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tantek it will happen to webmentions too
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tantek right, it becomes a battle
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Kongaloosh it took me a long time to realize that twitter could be good.
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Kongaloosh like, I didn't see the point if I could already talk to people through other channels
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Kongaloosh and I'd get drowned out on twitter
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tantek Twitter OTOH has caused smart people I know to post mostly dumb things. The UI, the format, the culture has all gone downhill.
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Kongaloosh I dunno
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tantek there are exceptions
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tantek but in general it's been a huge disappointment
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Kongaloosh I posted a "hey, anyone got reading? I'm interested in this!" with a few #
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Kongaloosh and I get people who genuinely want to help people
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tantek that's good!
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Kongaloosh and when you're at live events and want to know what's happening everywhere, also good.
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tantek yes, it's good for crowdsourced news
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tantek e.g. was there just an earthquake
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Kongaloosh or, "that person was cool, I'll ping them"
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Kongaloosh it needs the context of real-life.
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KevinMarks this is disconcertingly good - I want to wipe my screen http://codepen.io/lbebber/pen/ZGGNvZ
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myfreeweb why did quill stop working with my website? it doesn't send the request to my token endpoint, just immediately says that it returned an empty response
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tantek oh hey we're missing Brighton!
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aaronpk myfreeweb: hrm... I haven't changed anything with Quill for a while. has anything changed onyour site recently?
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myfreeweb the auth stuff wasn't changed
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myfreeweb micropublish does send the request, I see POST /login in my logs
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myfreeweb quill doesn't
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aaronpk is this when you're logging in?
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myfreeweb yes
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aaronpk what's your site?
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myfreeweb https://unrelenting.technology
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aaronpk hm I can't get to that point unless I am you
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aaronpk can you get as far as getting the authorization code?
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aaronpk and then can you PM it to me?
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myfreeweb the code in the URL bar?
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myfreeweb on /auth/callback?code=...
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aaronpk yeah
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-08-27-homebrew-website-club (+198) "/* Notes */ add Kongaloosh's notes" (view diff)
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myfreeweb done (if I can PM correctly :D)
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aaronpk got it
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aaronpk if i'm doing this right, I'm seeing a 500 internal server error from your token endpoint
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myfreeweb hmm weird
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myfreeweb now there is something in my logs (the indieauth.com response that says invalid code provided)
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aaronpk hm okay let me double check I copied it right
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aaronpk oops missed something
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myfreeweb I logged in now
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myfreeweb somehow it started working
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aaronpk okay now it says 401 unauthorized
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aaronpk oh weird
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/637038724744806400
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@mcclure111 Hey so when are we going to make a programming language / toolchain designed for mobile only users https://twitter.com/BenedictEvans/status/637011933309177856?s=09 (twitter.com/_/status/637038724744806400)
tantek, benwerd, j12t, j12t_ and frzn joined the channel
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ben_thatmustbeme https://ben.thatmustbe.me/activity yay, repost reading works fine
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Loqi woot
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