#indiewebcamp 2015-09-09

2015-09-09 UTC
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snarfed1
twitter rsvp!
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snarfed
if only we had an rsvp microsyntax that bridgy could understand and interpret
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snarfed
or do we?
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KevinMarks
that is posse'd from the actual rsvp
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snarfed
so then rsvp microsyntax would only be useful for interpreting "i'm going to X..." tweets
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M-Kodo
Is there an ical or something of http://indiewebcamp.com/events?
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snarfed
not sure if there's enough of a convention for those
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KevinMarks
expanding xoxo to be full mf2 display is interesting.
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KevinMarks
putting xoxo up on unmung is worth a go sometime
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aaronpk
maybe making an ical feed for http://indiewebcamp.com/events is a good project for me for tomorow
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M-Kodo
I'll show off my elixir microformats2 parser
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M-Kodo
the beginning of it anyway
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M-Kodo
I started parsing nested h- tags and found out it currently sucks
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M-Kodo
not really a fan of the idea that p-foo is a property string unless there is an h- then it becomes an object with children
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M-Kodo
I have a webmention module for elixir too
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M-Kodo
I really like in elixir that "libraries" are just applications and you build your application by composing other applications
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[snarfed]
sounds like django
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M-Kodo
I have never built a django app. I don't really know python. I know the basics but I figured I didn't need to know it since I already knew ruby heh
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aaronpk
M-Kodo: the nested h- tag thing is actually really powerful in practice
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aaronpk
i've never written the parsing side of it though. luckily that's something you only have to write once (per language) for the most part
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M-Kodo
Parsing html trees is kinda fun
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M-Kodo
you get to play with recursion
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M-Kodo
in erlang it is usually a 3-tuple that looks like {tag_name, [list of attributes], [children of tag]}
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Category:building-blocks (-2) "SWAT0 not historical anymore"
(view diff)
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Loqi
[mention] someone wrote a post that linked to https://webmention.io/notification/3EOyDeoASSCxGYXrrPlH6w
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Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki wrote a post that linked to a photo: "person-tag" http://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag https://webmention.io/notification/h0x6DTCiFGphM-tjkv4pxQ
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@aaronpk
@nicolagreco Here's a few more! http://indiewebcamp.com/principles Would love to have you join the conversation!
(twitter.com/_/status/641444592273915904)
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Loqi
[mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@nicolagreco Here's a few more! http://indiewebcamp.com/principles Would love to have you join the conversation!' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/09/08/2/)
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aaronpk
oookay lots of indienews changes today
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aaronpk
hope it's useful!
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[snarfed]
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 958 karma
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Loqi
[bridgy] Nicola Greco replied '@aaronpk Hi there, I am well aware of that document. Thanks a lot for the connection, I am very keen on getting in touch!' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/principles (https://twitter.com/nicolagreco/status/641446332025147396)
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mblaney
hi aaronpk, I had a go at posting to IndieNews, I don't think it likes that I'm using p-category?
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aaronpk
mblaney: can you check your post in http://pin13.net/mf2/ and see if it shows the "category" proeprty?
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mblaney
aaronpk it does but it strips the anchor tag.
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aaronpk
mblaney: sounds like you need to use u-category instead?
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aaronpk
can you share a link?
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mblaney
yeah it doesn't do anything smart, just wraps it in p-category
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mblaney
so I guess I need to look at when to apply p-category vs u-category?
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aaronpk
mblaney: the prefix tells the parser where to get the value from, so u-category when it's on an <a> tag
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mblaney
what would I do if I had a bunch of tags, and only some were links?
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aaronpk
well you'd probably want them to be clickable on the website right?
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aaronpk
so you'd check if it looks like a URL and then display it with an <a> tag if so
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mblaney
oh I mean when adding p-category or u-category
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aaronpk
yep that's what I mean
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mblaney
currently I just wrap my tags in a span with a p-category class, do I keep that and also add u-category to the links?
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aaronpk
oh, no, each tag needs its own p-category or u-category tag
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mblaney
oh that's what I'm missing then :-)
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aaronpk
kinda fun to see the latest photos on http://ownyourgram.com/
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tantek
good evening #indiewebcamp!
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tantek
aaronpk++ LOVE the recent photos from the top 10 on ownyourgram. amazing
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Loqi
aaronpk has 959 karma
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@CodebarBrighton
Working on a websites?—Don’t miss Homebrew Website Club at @68MiddleSt Wednesday evening from 6-7:30pm. https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-09-homebrew-website-club
(twitter.com/_/status/641495160656916480)
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[kevinmarks]
Via rhiaro, note my comment from a while ago
ehlovader, loic_m, eschnou, nitot, mdik, petermolnar, mdik_, Sebastien-L, friedcell, tvn, modem, glennjones, lewisnyman, j12t, stream7, tjgillies__, loic_m_ and adactio joined the channel
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@mapkyca
Wow. Just got my first piece of in-the-wild Webmention spam. I guess that means we're mainstream now...
(twitter.com/_/status/641550548211253248)
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@tylergillies
RT @mapkyca: Wow. Just got my first piece of in-the-wild Webmention spam. I guess that means we're mainstream now...
(twitter.com/_/status/641551037682184192)
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petermolnar
that tweet aboveon the webmention spam: I'm really not looking forward to this :(
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Zegnat
Good morning petermolnar
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Zegnat
I am already getting so much referral spam, the same filters might work interchangeably.
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Zegnat
Maybe integrate piwiks blacklist (https://github.com/piwik/referrer-spam-blacklist) into our webmention endpoints?
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[kevinmarks]
have you seen /vouch ?
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petermolnar
vouch is way too expensive
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petermolnar
and complicated
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petermolnar
imho of course
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Zegnat
I do like hashcash for their simplicity, and I accept and verify those on my endpoint (though I am currently not using them). Whether they can really combat spam is a different question
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vanderven.se martijn
edited /spam (+305) "/* Other */ Blacklisting domains"
(view diff)
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voxpelli
haven't had any spam that I know about so far – all spam I've heard people receiving so far has been from pingback-to-webmention bridges
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Loqi
voxpelli: mblaney left you a message on 9/8 at 3:28pm: thanks, I'll leave my indie-config the way it is for now then, but open to suggestions. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-08/line/1441751321352
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jonnybarnes
voxpelli: or twitter spam replies via bridgy
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voxpelli
jonnybarnes: those are tricky :/
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jonnybarnes
I haven’t had too many though
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ben_thatmustbeme
good morning #indiewebcamp
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Zegnat
Good morning ben_thatmustbeme!
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Jeena
No HWC today in Malmö?
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Zegnat
Jeena: I really like the design for events on your website, have to say
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Jeena
thanks, I invested some time into just designing them
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jonnybarnes
is your email actually spam@ Jeena?
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Jeena
hehe yeah
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Jeena
historical reasons
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Jeena
I had a info@ for the important stuff and spam@ just for services I don't trust
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Jeena
in the end I get no emails on my info@ but facebook, twitter, and everything else has my spam@ one
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aaronpk
almost time for me to renew my wildcard certificate for pin13.net
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aaronpk
now I have to decide if it's worth $94/year to get the same one again, or whether it's better to pay the $59 identity validation thingy to startssl so I can get wildcard certs through them
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[snarfed]
whee. ssl++, certjuggling--
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aaronpk
yeah also now i have to track down everywhere I installed that wildcard cert, fun
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aaronpk
it's on my mail server, IRC server, several domain names, etc
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aaronpk
oh interesting, so startssl charges $59 for identity validation, which expires after a year, but then the wildcard cert will be valid for 2 years
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aaronpk
so that means if I only need one wildcard cert, I am essentially paying $59 for 2 years
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aaronpk
that seems like it's worth it
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voxpelli
Jeena: Malmö will rejoin next time :)
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Jeena
ok cool
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voxpelli
aaronpk: nice with micropub html-param change! :)
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voxpelli
aaronpk: no visual feedback when I click upgrade though – the box remains but I see an ajax request in the background
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aaronpk
oh lol sorry. I was tired last night when I was finishing this
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voxpelli
it's gone on a refresh though :)
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aaronpk
and fixed
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voxpelli
verified that it worked with my endpoint :)
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aaronpk
excellent
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aaronpk
voxpelli: I added a few more strings when I was finishing indienews if you want to fill them out :) https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieNews/blob/master/Locale/sv/default.po
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voxpelli
aaronpk: I'll give it a look
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aaronpk
awesome
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aaronpk
voxpelli++
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Loqi
voxpelli has 47 karma
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aaronpk
oh did you want to translate "There are no posts submitted to the Swedish feed yet! As soon as you {0}submit a post{1} it will show up here." too? (i entered that one in english so it didn't say "english" on the swedish page)
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voxpelli
oh, right, sure
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voxpelli
aaronpk: file updated now
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voxpelli
I should probably take a look at the actual site after you have uploaded it to make sure things makes sense in context as well
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aaronpk
haha yeah
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Loqi
nice
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aaronpk
the rest you won't see until there's an article there
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aaronpk
good chance to read the "how to" instructions in swedish to see if it makes sense :) http://news.indiewebcamp.com/sv/submit
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+87) "/* HTML Escaping */"
(view diff)
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Zegnat
There seems to be a grammar mistake on there, but I am always wary of correcting Swedish as it is the third language my math-centric brain has been forced to learn
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voxpelli
Zegnat: always kind of hard to get a good flow in the language when one translates, but feel free to give feedback! :)
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voxpelli
opened a PR to fix two minor mistakes
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voxpelli
(one which ironically was a misspelling of the Swedish word for "issue" :P )
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Zegnat
voxpelli: It says "din egna sida", but "egna" is plural, right?
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voxpelli
that might be true, perhaps it should be "egen" instead
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Zegnat
I think I learned it that way. But those are the type of things I get really wary about as non-native speaker
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Zegnat
aaronpk: is there any reason for several webmention endpoints on IndieNews instead of relying on the target parameter?
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aaronpk
Zegnat: not really, it was easier for me that way, and no difference for people sending webmentions since you have to discover the webmention endpoint anyway
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aaronpk
has that been a problem for anyone except bridgy?
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aaronpk
hm maybe i should use one endpoint for everything
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Loqi
[mention] Ryan Barrett, Lauren Buchman, Eva Lee, Tantek Çelik, Justin Ormont, and Benjamin Michael Goering were invited to an event: "Homebrew Website Club Meetup" https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-09-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/K_d1gU8gGbaOhnmJ8enizA
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Loqi
[mention] Arezu Aghasey, Darius Dunlap, and Kevin Marks RSVPd yes to an event: "Homebrew Website Club Meetup" https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-09-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/FLx8SbCvHHbbZ8YgIwEnRA
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Loqi
[mention] Andi Galpern and Ben Werdmüller RSVPd no to an event: "Homebrew Website Club Meetup" https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-09-09-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/FIzEqrS-hlvsUKS1ZDcMZg
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aaronpk
clustering++
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Loqi
clustering has 1 karma
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voxpelli
aaronpk: one could argue that it's good that you use many endpoints because it helps discovers invalid optimizations/assumptions
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aaronpk
true, depends on whether you consider caching the webmention endpoint per domain an invalid optimization
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aaronpk
okay well regardless, I just fixed a bug that I realized existed thanks to that comment :)
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aaronpk
now it doesn't matter which endpoint you send it to, it'll show up in whichever language feed you specify in the target parameter
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Zegnat
It is a theoretical problem only at the moment... I think. I had planned to cache endpoints per domain, but dropped those plans after the discussions
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aaronpk
I think it's actually a problem for bridgy since they send out so many webmentions, but for the majority of us it's not a practical issue
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voxpelli
I know it wouldn't have been a problem for Bloglovin :P But different scale I guess
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tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp!
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voxpelli
Good morning tantek!
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@kartik_prabhu
@mapkyca more likely it is pingback spam. Are you using webmention.io which also handles pingbacks?
(twitter.com/_/status/641649486758936577)
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tantek
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 119 karma
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voxpelli
aaronpk: thought about dropping pingback-support eventually?
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Loqi
[mention] Eddie Codel, Marcus Cavanaugh, and Charles Martin RSVPd maybe to an event: "Homebrew Website Club Meetup" https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/xI-Pc0pPd6FmTU7VK-Xn8w
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Loqi
[mention] Ashwini Sriram, Ali Razfar, Suhaib Syed, and Aditya Mishra were invited to an event: "Homebrew Website Club Meetup" https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/xOAmnxEUNGstSETe0P-Q-Q
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aaronpk
voxpelli: for what? my own site?
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@aaronpk
@mapkyca For real? You sure it wasn't from a pingback-to-webmention proxy?
(twitter.com/_/status/641650540779143168)
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aaronpk
(not sure why that didn't tweet out before)
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voxpelli
aaronpk: for WebMention.io in general – or are you receiving many good pingbacks?
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aaronpk
well it's up to the site using webmention.io whether they want to support pingbacks! remember you have to advertise your pingback endpoint!
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aaronpk
so if you don't want to support pingbacks, just don't include a rel=pingback link :)
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voxpelli
I guess, wonder if some adds it just because they think the more the merrier
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aaronpk
I still do get useful pingbacks though
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aaronpk
especially on my other sites. it's fun to know when people write blog posts about my other projects
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KartikPrabhu
very neat. could be improved with clustering "replied to posts on ... "
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snarfed
good inspiration for salmention presentation
tantek, mdik, misuba, glennjones, adactio, KartikPrabhu, lewisnyman, tvn_, KartikPrabhu1, gRegorLove, mlncn, mdik_, __number5__, scor and indie-visitor joined the channel
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor
snark35
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Jeena
I just updated the picture on https://jeena.net/events/3 and tobias, the one with the computer even got some work done on his website backend with haskell
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tantek
great!
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KevinMarks
hm, no-one did a big fb invite fro hwc sf this week
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KevinMarks
suspect I may be lonely
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aaronpk
i saw a burst of invites here earlier
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tantek
I did too
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tantek
you can invite people that were invited to previous HWC
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tantek
as well as reach out to individuals via @-referencing them on Twitter
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Zegnat
Jeena: good to see you have pictures of every one of the events so far!
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KevinMarks
I'm only seeing 13 and that's after I just invited a few https://www.facebook.com/events/742074362604957/
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Loqi
[mention] Leah Culver, Peter Hirshberg, Justin David Kruger, Christopher Carfi, Om Malik, Michelle Greer, Susan Kaup, and Tikva Morowati were invited to https://webmention.io/notification/pMI_jjy7ZmRvgUAZXy_noA
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Loqi
[mention] Sarah Dopp, Christian Crumlish, Monica Wilkinson, Katie Johnson, Liza Sperling, Thor Muller, Chris Messina, Pascale Diaine, Evan Prodromou, Martin Atkins, Faruk AteÅŸ, Lonnie Rae, Joichi Ito, Jesse Vincent, Sabrina Bruning, Eddie Codel, Ariel Waldman, Erin Stevenson O'Connor, Yan XZ, Erin Jo Richey, Ryan King, Will Norris, Katarzyna Babula, Doc Searls, Christine Herron, Elisa Jo Harkness, Joseph Smarr, Deb Schultz, Ben Ward, Laura Gluhanich, Megs ORorke, Edward O'Connor, Matt Biddulph, Matthew Levine, Heather Gold, Christina Warren, and Elizabeth Churchill were invited to https://webmention.io/notification/FKubnWbxSBZ014sLzD6RSw
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aaronpk
i gotta figure out the length limit for IRC
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tantek
yeah!
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Zegnat
aaronpk: it is 512 characters right? I seem to recall reading that somewhere
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aaronpk
probably depends on the network. guess I can just count the chars in that last message that got cut off
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aaronpk
looks like 422 there. maybe things like nick length contribute to it?
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tantek
is it IRC specific, Freenode specific? citations?
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tantek
what is the length limit for IRC?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "length limit for IRC" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102b
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aaronpk
2 are the \r\n
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aaronpk
you need to fit the channel name in there too
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tantek
heh - that sounds worth adding to the wiki ;)
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tantek
especially for POSSE to IRC :D
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aaronpk
oh dear
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Zegnat
commands also have the full sender info, if I read the RFC right? One of the examples: :Angel!wings@irc.org PRIVMSG Wiz :Are you receiving this message ?
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tantek
#-seewhereIamgoingwiththat
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aaronpk
there's no posse section on /IRC
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tantek
we can fix that - especially since there's a Known plugin to POSSE to IRC
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tantek
yessss
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aaronpk
anxiously awaits for someone to submit a post to the German or Swedish IndieNews :D
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Zegnat
When I finally get my blog going I’ll submit a pull for a Dutch IndieNews, do remind me about that though
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Zegnat
Jeena: may I pull your HWC photo to the wiki?
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aaronpk
oh what... tvOS apps are XML and javascript
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aaronpk
s/are/can be
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Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: oh what... tvOS apps can be XML and javascript
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sparverius
not swift? although i guess that makes sense; i wonder how many 10 foot apps for other platforms are javascript backed
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aaronpk
"New templates using XML and Javascript are also available as a framework for tvOS apps, so you can use predefined layouts and Javascript APIs to quickly create beautiful apps ideal for streaming media." https://developer.apple.com/tvos/
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aaronpk
all the regular iOS frameworks are there too
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cleverdevil
interesting...
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Zegnat
XML actually doesn’t sound that bad, as it forces every app to have the same UI/UX, just with different settings
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Zegnat
I have to navigate apps with my remote, so you better make it easy on me
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aaronpk
wonder what kind of indieweb apps i could make for apple tv :)
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cleverdevil
good question!
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Zegnat
live feed of IndieNews scrolling on the office TV, aaronpk
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tantek
KevinMarks: yeah, see the scrollback / logs
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KevinMarks
odd choice when chromecast went with html
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tantek
and when iOS 1.0 went with HTML
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KartikPrabhu
new XML for each device!
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tantek
it's a good use of the eXperiment Markup Language
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tantek
gather data for how to actually make it work cross-device
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@joindiaspora
@Natureshadow @elloworld @zaskoda ... the W3C SocialWG effort to standardize a social federation protocol. See here: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg
(twitter.com/_/status/616706653946163200)
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gRegorLove
Afternoon, #indiewebcamp
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tantek
greetings gRegorLove
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: was that a custom POSSE text edit?
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KartikPrabhu
yes. manually. I wish bridgy publish allowed custom POSSE text
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: pretty sure you can use p-summary for that?
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KartikPrabhu
oh hmm! will have to think about that
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KartikPrabhu
the problem is I don't want to complicate my note posting UI with a field for summary
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aaronpk
make it optional? hidden by default
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: you just contradicted yourself! You said you wished that Bridgy had a field for custom POSSE text, and yet you don't want a field for POSSE text in your note posting uI!
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: no a field for optional POSSE text is fine. But then I don't want it to show up as summary in my post markup since it will most likely be a "shortened" version of the whole post, not a summary
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tantek
you could provide it as a progressive disclosure thing
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snarfed1
ooh a hidden (meta)data use case
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snarfed
grabs popcorn
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: usually I don't want readers on my site to see the truncated version anyway. the whole issue is Twitter's stupid char-limit.
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KartikPrabhu
Ideally I'd host a POSSE code and make it send some shortened text
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tantek
thanks snarfed, apologies for the delay in following up on that. :/
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: you could use the progressive disclosure elements in HTML5 to not show it by default.
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KartikPrabhu
but show it with some UI?
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KartikPrabhu
as in there is some UI so that the reader can see it on my site?
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tantek
but not by default (when page is loaded)
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tantek
they have to click something to view
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KartikPrabhu
hmm the thing I don't see is why reveal that jumbled text at all
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KartikPrabhu
I already dislike doing it for Twitter
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gRegorLove
what's progressive disclosure elements?
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KartikPrabhu
summary and details?
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KartikPrabhu
don't know if most browsers provide a default UI for those
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tantek
you can polyfill
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tantek.com
edited /next-hwc (+0) "heh"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+97) "revert to a version of all but Malmo"
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[kevinmarks]
The mobile ones do, and Firefox users like more detail anyway ;)