#indiewebcamp 2015-10-08

2015-10-08 UTC
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KevinMarks I think I need an image and some audio in this page
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KevinMarks__ The canonical document should also have a corresponding <link> tag within pointing at this AMP HTML file: <link rel="amphtml"
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aaronpk yes, so that amp documents can be an alternate version than the desktop view
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KevinMarks__ should we add to microformats registry
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aaronpk heh
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KevinMarks__ rel="alternate" type="text/html+amp"
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aaronpk the nytimes AMP version has "originall published at" at the bottom
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aaronpk oh sorry i'm looking at the atlantic
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aaronpk this one also does not have the rel=amphtml link
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KevinMarks__ well, it shouldn't on the amp version, but on the canonical one
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aaronpk yeah it doesn't
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aaronpk here's the reformatted AMP version hosted by google https://amp.gstatic.com/v/the-atlantic-amphtml.googleusercontent.com/amphtml/pages/CAIiEOeHZ3n_Jr2INM1VJjWm1ccqFAgEKg0IACoGCAowm_EEMKAiMPtZ?amp_js_v=0
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aaronpk i can't find the URL that the atlantic published. i was able to find it for one earler today
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KevinMarks__ wow, if js doesn't load the page is blank because of the <style>body {opacity: 0}</style> shit
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aaronpk that feels like a really weird thing to require publishers include on the page. why can't google just inject that when they go to display the post
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gRegorLove AMP requires the opacity: 0 bit??
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KevinMarks__ there's a lot of cruft in this spec
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[kevinmarks] tantek I'm downstairs - looks like there is something on
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GWG Anyone excited about anything tonight?
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aaronpk i'm excited about getting closer to finishing my new site
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@andigalpern #indieweb (@ Mozilla San Francisco - @mozsf in San Francisco, CA w/ @kevinmarks @benwerd) https://www.swarmapp.com/c/khqqBRY4F8p (twitter.com/_/status/651925722827739136)
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@EricInce_ andigalpern : #indieweb (@ Mozilla San Francisco - mozsf in San Francisco, CA w/ kevinmarks benwerd) … https://twitter.com/andigalpern/status/651925722827739136) (twitter.com/_/status/651925972816629760)
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aaronpk "Is anyone consuming microformats-2 yet, at scale?" https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/pull/499#issuecomment-146386969
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aaronpk tempted to point him at https://www.brid.gy/ because "2,134,529 responses handled" is scale even though it's many many different implementations
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KartikPrabhu yes do that
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aaronpk okay https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/pull/499#issuecomment-146388790
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: welcome to homebrew website club: what have you got working on your own site recently? (twitter.com/_/status/651933733650595840)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I hit a bandwidth limit on my webhost and they turned my site off; I deliberately din't upigrade and reduced bandwidth (twitter.com/_/status/651933993491898368)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you're maintaining a website on shared hosting you're responsible for throttling bad robots. I now put 1 item in my feed (twitter.com/_/status/651934316671406080)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I was also thinking about only putting 24 hours in the atom feed, so it would often be blank. (twitter.com/_/status/651934472594673664)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: my homepage has the h-ffed, the legacy atom feed is only there for existing subscriber so I'll just put that in there (twitter.com/_/status/651934684725813248)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @andigalpern: is your feed always chronological, or do they show the most popular? (twitter.com/_/status/651934791709945856)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: having just a single item is very annoying when you first subcribe (twitter.com/_/status/651934894730399745)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I'm trying to come up with techniques of how to publish your website to be the least work (twitter.com/_/status/651935034241327104)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: another possibility is to make the atom feed static so that the server handles caching for you (twitter.com/_/status/651935354098987008)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: I have a live dashboard on https://withknown.com/ and about 3/4 of it is bots -we're swimming in bots (twitter.com/_/status/651935505756626948)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: these aren't helpful robost, a lot of them are bad robots (twitter.com/_/status/651935719607402496)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @andigalpern: who sould study this kind of traffic? a sysadmin? (twitter.com/_/status/651935807801044992)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: after all the blocking and changes my bandwidth went from 2G a day to .5G a day (twitter.com/_/status/651935926504017921)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I also blocked any bot that starts with Java (twitter.com/_/status/651936059513769984)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: imagine if 3/4 of all the phonecalls you get were from robots? all: they are t: I don't have a phone any more (twitter.com/_/status/651936324556058624)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: I just broke ground on the AMP template for https://withknown.com/ - it's like instant articles but more open (twitter.com/_/status/651936587958386689)
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@coreyford RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: I just broke ground on the AMP template for https://withknown.com/ - it's like instant articles but mor… (twitter.com/_/status/651936731332083712)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: AMP is a slightly nasty subset of HTML that is meant for mobile apps and is cached by google, twitter (twitter.com/_/status/651936830477205505)
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GWG I wish I could go to a HWC SF meeting. Sounds very lively there
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: as @benward said, AMP is like a publisher-supplied quick read version of the site. (twitter.com/_/status/651937056134955008)
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@davidmead RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: AMP is a slightly nasty subset of HTML that is meant for mobile apps and is cached by google, twitter (twitter.com/_/status/651937280647659520)
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aaronpk since I seem to keep trying to find these: http://aaronparecki.com/collections/2015/10/07/2/the-first-ten-tweets
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: I'm also going to add twitter cards to the next version of https://withknown.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/651937749440851968)
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@diddleapp RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: I have a live dashboard on https://withknown.com/ and about 3/4 of it is bots -we're swimming in bots (twitter.com/_/status/651938109286928384)
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@diddleapp RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: these aren't helpful robost, a lot of them are bad robots (twitter.com/_/status/651938109945458688)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @benwerd: we now see that people are using open graph etc in the browser too, so we will embed it in all (twitter.com/_/status/651938478570258434)
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GWG I thought that was a DRY violation
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: AMP, Facebook Instant Articles and Apple News are like 3 new browsers that only support a subset of the web (twitter.com/_/status/651939795871092736)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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tantek !tell benwerd I think withknown.com is a "substantial site that consumes microformats2 natively" - perhaps you can point that out in https://github.com/ampproject/amphtml/pull/499 ?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk now I am archiving avatar URLs for my new site! no more broken images for me
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aaronpk and one step closer to being able to force everything to https
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@mterenzio RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: AMP, Facebook Instant Articles and Apple News are like 3 new browsers that only support a subset of … (twitter.com/_/status/651943172378075136)
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KevinMarks_ https://github.com/Medium/medium-api-docs medium api available now - would eb good for silo.pub
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aaronpk given that it's a relatively simple OAuth 2 API I wonder what the odds are of getting them to support micropub directly
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aaronpk also interesting that there is no editing API
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@FamilyCTO RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: we now see that people are using open graph etc in the browser too, so we will embed it in all (twitter.com/_/status/651943794468855808)
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aaronpk then I can use my medium-style editor on Quill to post to medium!
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tantek so who is going to file the Bridgy Publish feature request issue to add POSSE to Medium support? :) kylewm, snarfed
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KevinMarks_ I showed jamie your editor at xoxo
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aaronpk oh hah
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KevinMarks_ https://medium.com/developers/welcome-to-the-medium-api-3418f956552
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aaronpk wow they launched with an ifttt channel too
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aaronpk i'm kind of surprised they're promoting automatically generating articles
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aaronpk "Or hook up an RSS feed to publish all the newly enacted laws in the United States."
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aaronpk and a wordpress plugin for cross-posting to medium! https://github.com/Medium/medium-wordpress-plugin
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @andigalpern: there is a big thing about user-centred design - we need to start viewing users as people (twitter.com/_/status/651945430599790592)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @andigalpern: designers need to make it easier for people to control what they publish (twitter.com/_/status/651945601677045760)
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@erikbates @kevinmarks is @Medium's new publish api something that #indieweb will be able to take advantage of, vis-a-vis POSSE? (twitter.com/_/status/651945688280883200)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @andigalpern: my next event I'm interviewing @evacide - about how to do this (twitter.com/_/status/651945704412286976)
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@aaronpk @erikbates @kevinmarks Absolutely! They even already made a Wordpress plugin for cross-posting to @Medium! https://github.com/Medium/medium-wordpress-plugin #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651945920481726464)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we are doing a one day hackathon for http://indiewebcamp.com in SF on December 3rd (twitter.com/_/status/651946162006695936)
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GWG Darn
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GWG I'll be in Florida
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@kevinmarks nice shoutout to @benwerd in medium's API announcement https://medium.com/the-story/medium-s-publishing-api-31b9f05fada1 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651946636357140480)
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@ayirpelle RT @kevinmarks: nice shoutout to @benwerd in medium's API announcement https://medium.com/the-story/medium-s-publishing-api-31b9f05fada1 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651946823410515968)
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aaronpk wait how did benwerd call the date?
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KevinMarks_ 'cos they said they were organising something today
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@travelinreid RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: AMP, Facebook Instant Articles and Apple News are like 3 new browsers that only support a subset of … (twitter.com/_/status/651947004252307456)
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aaronpk ohh
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aaronpk nice
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@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @andigalpern: there is a big thing about user-centred design - we need to start viewing users as people (twitter.com/_/status/651947396725915652)
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@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @andigalpern: designers need to make it easier for people to control what they publish (twitter.com/_/status/651947398781140992)
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@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @andigalpern: my next event I'm interviewing @evacide - about how to do this (twitter.com/_/status/651947399406055425)
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@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: we are doing a one day hackathon for http://indiewebcamp.com in SF on December 3rd (twitter.com/_/status/651947400794390528)
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@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks: nice shoutout to @benwerd in medium's API announcement https://medium.com/the-story/medium-s-publishing-api-31b9f05fada1 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651947401679372290)
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@andigalpern RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @andigalpern: there is a big thing about user-centred design - we need to start viewing users as people (twitter.com/_/status/651948558426378240)
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@andigalpern RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @andigalpern: designers need to make it easier for people to control what they publish (twitter.com/_/status/651948596158267392)
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aaronpk just got my flight to SF http://aaron.pk/t4eW1
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tantek aaronpk: we just locked down 2015-12-03 at HWC SF for IWC SF Hack Day!
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@davidmead Very cool @kevinmarks. I hope to see a @medium plugin for @withknown soon then ;-) /cc @benwerd #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651948906947874816)
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@ken_bauer RT @kevinmarks: nice shoutout to @benwerd in medium's API announcement https://medium.com/the-story/medium-s-publishing-api-31b9f05fada1 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651948907170295808)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: websites that I've been doing for myself where I pull in things I published elsewhere @t: we call that PESOS (twitter.com/_/status/651949065073242112)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @aribadernatal: websites that I've been doing for myself where I pull in things I published elsewhere @t: we call… (twitter.com/_/status/651949144907517953)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: I built a way to pull in all the feeds from places I have published elsewhere; (twitter.com/_/status/651949252193722368)
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@pcosdeaf RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @aribadernatal: I built a way to pull in all the feeds from places I have published elsewhere; (twitter.com/_/status/651949295961178112)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: now I'm making a distinction between thinsg I have posted and those that I have starred elsewhere (twitter.com/_/status/651949434465611777)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: I'm pulling the starred items in from pocket, github and twitter (twitter.com/_/status/651949520515919873)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: it's a pinterest style view of the various things I starred elsewhere (twitter.com/_/status/651949697536536577)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: the other site is a blog-like view of all the things that I have posted on other sites, youtube, tweets etc (twitter.com/_/status/651949840222552064)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: I need to work out how these collection sites fit into to my main personal site - working on connecting pieces (twitter.com/_/status/651950149246320640)
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tantek.com edited /2015/planning (+1373) "FAQ / Creator camp not a hackathon (perhaps more relevant on /IndieWebCamp ? capturing here as it was the context it came up)" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh yeah i forget how loaded a term "hackathon" is in the bay area
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: the sites that I have been doing with students at KGI where they can all have websites, but few take advantage (twitter.com/_/status/651950925624541184)
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tantek yes aaronpk - I was just schooled on this by andi and KevinMarks
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tantek so being properly schooled, I wrote it up
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: there is a group of 25 students who are posting together - I was collating feeds, but now it is a group site (twitter.com/_/status/651951075403108354)
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aaronpk nice
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: once they have written on the closed site they can choose to share it out on their own sites (twitter.com/_/status/651951217141227520)
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tantek indieweb related past two weeks-ish: I wrote up a spec for Post Type Discovery http://indiewebcamp.com/post-type-discovery and proposed it to the W3C Social Web WG as an editor's draft. working through questions and issues to get it accepted!
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @energyovertime: I love the indiewebify.me implementation walking me through the different stages (twitter.com/_/status/651952449339682816)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @energyovertime: now I have a github pages site and am working through the pprocess (twitter.com/_/status/651952586770223106)
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@joshuajuran RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: AMP, Facebook Instant Articles and Apple News are like 3 new browsers that only support a subset of … (twitter.com/_/status/651955485323755520)
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GWG Hmm...https://github.com/Automattic/amp-wp/
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KartikPrabhu I am sure a lot of CMSs/publishers will adopt AMP for now
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KartikPrabhu any wagers on how long AMP will last?
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KartikPrabhu 5 years most I reckon
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@jimpick RT @kevinmarks: nice shoutout to @benwerd in medium's API announcement https://medium.com/the-story/medium-s-publishing-api-31b9f05fada1 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651961778373455872)
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@aribadernatal RT @kevinmarks: nice shoutout to @benwerd in medium's API announcement https://medium.com/the-story/medium-s-publishing-api-31b9f05fada1 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651964492578877440)
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@belongbot4000 RT @kevinmarks: nice shoutout to @benwerd in medium's API announcement https://medium.com/the-story/medium-s-publishing-api-31b9f05fada1 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651966591480000512)
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@mathewi RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: AMP, Facebook Instant Articles and Apple News are like 3 new browsers that only support a subset of … (twitter.com/_/status/651974498074370048)
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@ricmac RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: AMP, Facebook Instant Articles and Apple News are like 3 new browsers that only support a subset of … (twitter.com/_/status/651975443592163328)
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@wijndelts RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: AMP, Facebook Instant Articles and Apple News are like 3 new browsers that only support a subset of … (twitter.com/_/status/651978216962396160)
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GWG Any Indiewebcamp news other than SF in December?
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@Chronotope RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: AMP, Facebook Instant Articles and Apple News are like 3 new browsers that only support a subset of … (twitter.com/_/status/651980840201809920)
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@dnnr RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @andigalpern: there is a big thing about user-centred design - we need to start viewing users as people (twitter.com/_/status/651987038909153280)
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@kevinmarks notes form tonight's Homebrew Website Club SF on my site: http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-10-07.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/651988145228021760)
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@DirkLueth RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @kevinmarks: AMP, Facebook Instant Articles and Apple News are like 3 new browsers that only support a subset of … (twitter.com/_/status/651993662239281153)
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kylewm is there an authoritative "how to markup a repost" on the wiki somewhere? it's not under https://indiewebcamp.com/reposts#How_to
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kylewm.com edited /reposts (+1688) "/* Brainstorming */ How to markup?" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /reposts (+17) "/* How to mark up */ clean up indentation" (view diff)
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@superfeedr Generally, it's awesome to see #Medium open up to the rest of the web https://medium.com/the-story/medium-s-publishing-api-31b9f05fada1 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/652022558213173248)
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@julien51 RT @superfeedr: Generally, it's awesome to see #Medium open up to the rest of the web https://medium.com/the-story/medium-s-publishing-api-31b9f05fada1 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/652036802015064064)
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voxpelli snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 147 karma
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voxpelli for fixing: https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/38
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voxpelli Now IFTTT accepted Granary's conversion of https://webmention.herokuapp.com/api/mentions?format=html&site=voxpelli.com
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voxpelli So now I should get push notifications on my iPhone whenever someone mentions me (delayed though of course, so not realtime push notifications yet, but still progress!)
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@reinergaertner Ein französischer Weg, aber unterstützenswert. Initiative zur "De-googlisierung" des Internets: http://degooglisons-internet.org #indieweb #Asterix (twitter.com/_/status/652048002878701568)
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Loqi [mention] Frances Bell commented 'My response to this post is a wry smile. On 5 October, I and others had lost our comments to Keith Hamon’s old blog, and now on 6 October, t...' on a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (https://francesbell.withknown.com/2015/my-response-to-this-post-is-a-wry-smile-on)
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@eric_analytics RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @benwerd: AMP is a slightly nasty subset of HTML that is meant for mobile apps and is cached by google, twitter (twitter.com/_/status/652103454463143936)
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jayr afternoon all
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GWG jayr, greetings
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@lackaff .@Medium launches Publishing API: automatically publish from personal sites and blogs to Medium #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/652130963930148864)
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@lackaff .@Medium launches Publishing API: automatically publish from personal sites and blogs to Medium #indieweb https://medium.com/the-story/medium-s-publishing-api-31b9f05fada1 (twitter.com/_/status/652131112337154048)
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@bwashington2013 RT @lackaff: .@Medium launches Publishing API: automatically publish from personal sites and blogs to Medium #indieweb https://t.co/ZSEmCdu… (twitter.com/_/status/652132781854601217)
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tantek.com edited /reposts () "(-1619) note separate repost page, move brainstorming of more extensive repost markup to /repost page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /repost (+1690) "/* How to Publish */ move kylewm's more extensive repost markup brainstorm here" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson_ Just checking... has anyone yet made a micropub book scanner?
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ShaneHudson_ I never add books to my website. If it was as easy as the 'We Buy Books' app I could add them all in a few mins heh
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ShaneHudson_ So might make one soon
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aaronpk what's a book scanner?
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ShaneHudson_ Use the camera on phone/computer to scan the barcode. That gets the ISBN
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aaronpk oh hah
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ShaneHudson_ The We Buy Books app works incredibly well, was testing it to see if camera scanners work
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aaronpk pretty sure there are open source barcode scanning libraries too
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ShaneHudson_ Got a hack day coming up and was thinking of what to do
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ShaneHudson_ Yeah there are plenty
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ShaneHudson_ It wouldn't be too hard, just thought I should check it didn't already exist.
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ShaneHudson_ what is a book
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Loqi book is a written work https://indiewebcamp.com/book
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ShaneHudson_ Are there any agreed mf2 structures for books? Mine just uses it as an article currently
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ShaneHudson_ Ah http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/catalog
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aaronpk check the microformats wiki too, there might be some previous mf1 things there
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ShaneHudson_ Ok :) Won't look into it too much now. Think it will be a good little project though, and being micropub means anyone else here can use it :)
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voxpelli ShaneHudson_: I think some have worked on IndieWeb and Goodreads, don't remember if PESOS or POSSE
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ShaneHudson_ Nice, I've already got a books section just need to fill it :) Don't currently use Goodreaders or alternatives much
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voxpelli what is Goodreads?
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Loqi Goodreads is a silo for keeping track of books, reviews, and reading progress https://indiewebcamp.com/Goodreads
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voxpelli Might be some good links there to markup and such :)
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ShaneHudson_ Ah nice yeah, cheers
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tallpaul_ We did some work on book microformats at indiewebvcamo
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tallpaul_ I have all my collection marked up
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tallpaul_ there's no index yet but you can get to some of them at http:///paulmunday.net/read
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tallpaul iirc this was just documented in the initial pages we produced
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aaronpk did that end up on the wiki or only in the etherpad?
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tallpaul I think only the etherpad
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tallpaul I have done some subsequent work that I mean to document
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tallpaul is there a process for proposing microformats
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aaronpk yes http://microformats.org/wiki/process
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snarfed re GoodReads, https://github.com/snarfed/misc/blob/master/goodreads_to_list.py
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snarfed (generated part of https://snarfed.org/books )
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tallpaul I do the same thing for LibraryThing you can export your collection as JSON and I have a json to mf script I run periodically
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tallpaul Librarythings catalogue is loosely MARC based I think, though I could be wrong and it captures quite a bit of info
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tallpaul https://github.com/tallus/monomatapa/blob/experimental/load_books.py
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Loqi [mention] Natasha Tessa RSVPd maybe to https://webmention.io/notification/ES3Ca6xKSe4cMA8aWwgRsQ
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KartikPrabhu sensible post from Tim Kadlec: http://timkadlec.com/2015/10/amp-and-incentives/
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aaronpk hahaha this was my exact reaction yesterday morning "it sounded very much like someone having a little too much fun trolling readers"
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aaronpk "It was only after seeing the publishers who were associated with the project and then looking at the GitHub repo that I realized it was a real thing."
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KartikPrabhu yup
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kevinmarks_ the sense I'm getting is that it is a way for tech and editorial to fight off the biz side in publishers
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KartikPrabhu not really. with a promised better distribution biz will be all over it
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KartikPrabhu even if it makes no sense
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kevinmarks_ yes, I mean fight of the biz side's propensity to shit all over the users by including adtech malware
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KartikPrabhu so now no custom JS and writing weird AMP code will be pushed
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ShaneHudson_ "There’s a smart team behind AMP and I do think there’s value in what they’re doing. I’m hopeful that, eventually, AMP will evolve into something that really does benefit the web as a whole—not just a specific version of it."
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ShaneHudson_ I like that. Tim is a great guy and yeah, very sensible view on it all
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@dougmckown @squarespace Any plans to offer option to push posts to @Medium via new publishing API? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/652199167570386946)
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Jeena Looks like I will be giving a talk about IndieWebCamp at http://foss-gbg.se/ in February next year.
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aaronpk \o/
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aaronpk congrats
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aaronpk if it's confirmed and has a date and stuff, add to /events!
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ShaneHudson_ Nice :)
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Jeena good idea
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gRegorLove What's the timing of AMP vs Facebook's similar thing (Live Articles? I forget). It seems reactionary, but I dunno if AMP has been in the works for a while and it's just coincidental timing.
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aaronpk there's almost no way it was started after FB given the list of launch partners
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Zegnat Jeena, will the foss-gbg talk be free to attend?
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Jeena yes
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kevinmarks_ Jeff said it came from news foo
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Jeena Zegnat mark it in your calender :D http://foss-gbg.se/kalender/
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kevinmarks_ Jeff wants news stories to be embeddable like youtube videos
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kevinmarks_ AMP potentially gives that, in that you could have a widget that puts them on your site
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Zegnat I will definitely have to try and get down to Gbg for that then, Jeena! I might have a place to sleep now, meaning I could stay past my usual deadline
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Jeena That would be really awesome! I would really appreciate some backup :D
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kevinmarks_ you could just iframe them, but something liek that google carousel for stories you link to could be nice in a reader/ indienews kind of thing
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kevinmarks_ the way it preloads adjacent pages so you can swipe is pretty neat
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@jordan_web @mattgemmell But with the API you can publish on your own site but syndicate to Medium (POSSE), then you may attract new followers #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/652207906155298817)
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jeena.net edited /Events (+424) "/* Upcoming */ foss-gbg talk by Jeena" (view diff)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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gidzit hi all. I'm writing as a side project a tiny static blog generator, but I'm wondering if my generated HTML is indieweb compliant.
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gidzit I searched on the wiki and checked many of your site, but didn't find an answer yet.
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gidzit my site is: http://me.gidzit.org/#2015-10-07
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gidzit it's a single HTML page, with multiple hentry inside which can be linked by an URL fragment
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gidzit is it "forbidden" to have such permalink with a fragment?
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Zegnat I don’t think it is forbidden, but it might trip up parsers that are looking for things like "the first h-entry on the page"
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aaronpk afaik nobody checks fragments now
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aaronpk so if you reply to someone with a URL like that, their site probably won't show the thing you want it to show
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gidzit so, fact is probably that my site is completely incompatible :/
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aaronpk is there a reason you don't want actual permalinks to your content?
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Zegnat Not completely incompatible, e.g. there is no reason for fragment URLs not to work with webmentions. It is just likely your website will trip up some people’s parsers, but that is just one part of the indieweb
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gidzit don't be afraid... My code is running inside a webbrowser and store data source and generated html inside browser's localstorage
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aaronpk most sites and frameworks have been moving away from using fragment links to denote separate URLs. twitter dropped #! a while ago, and even javascript frameworks like ember.js are switching back to server-generated HTML
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gidzit reducing the number of files make everything easier/faster to run. One source. One generated HTML
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snarfed1 gidzit: you might want to talk with csarven, he does the same kind of thing. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/445
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snarfed related at least, if not the same
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gidzit there is no JS at all on the generated HTML, so, it's a bit different than the #! navigation
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@kevinmarks I updated my AMP reaction post to include audio and video: http://www.kevinmarks.com/ampreaction.html AMP version: http://www.kevinmarks.com/ampreaction-amp.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/652217584234856448)
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snarfed funny link extraction failure: Photos.app. .app is a valid TLD (http://nic.app/), so it's reasonable (but still wrong) to interpret it as a link.
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/twitter/myfreeweb#responses , https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/398
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aaronpk oh dear
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kylewm snarfed: why is it wrong if twitter autolinks it?
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kylewm gidzit: see also tantek's older archives, permalinks are all fragments http://tantek.com/log/2005/11.html
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kylewm snarfed: oh i guess bc they are talking about a Mac app? Still, I think that's "not our problem"
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gidzit thanks for your examples.
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snarfed kylewm: yup all that is probably true. i agree it's probably not a bug for us to fix, per se.
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snarfed it's "wrong" in general in that it's not a link, but i'm with you, i definitely have zero itch to tackle it :P
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[kevinmarks] same problem with .py as that's a TLD and a file extension
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kevinmarks_ tantek, you'll like the marco audio quote in my post
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KartikPrabhu is there a mechanism for bridgy to backfeed Tweet quoting https://twitter.com/duetosymmetry/status/652184399270707200 ?
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@duetosymmetry No errors found in Wald's General Relativity. Dayumn. https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/652182041757380608 (twitter.com/_/status/652184399270707200)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @energyovertime: now I have a github pages site and am working through the pprocess (twitter.com/_/status/652228656480284672)
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snarfed1 KartikPrabhu: hmm! not yet. sounds like a good feature request!
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snarfed not sure how it'd work. maybe just search for the original tweet url?
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aaronpk sounds similar to how bridgy now searches for any link to your own site
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snarfed if it works, yes
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snarfed similar but more expensive since you have to search for every tweet they've ever published :P
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snarfed hopefully there's a better way
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aaronpk what about searching for "https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu"
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snarfed ok, searching for the tweet id works: https://twitter.com/search?q=652182041757380608&src=typd
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snarfed aaronpk: yup that's the next step
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snarfed nope :(
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aaronpk doh
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: mind capturing all this in a bridgy issue?
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snarfed and/or wiki
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kylewm !tell gidzit I tried a quick hack to restrict parsing to a fragment, it's pretty cool! try out https://kylewm.com/services/mf2?url=http%3A%2F%2Fme.gidzit.org%2F%232015-10-07
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 249 karma
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kylewm thanks! I think maybe KartikPrabhu has already been down this road, I remember him adding something so that doc could be a full document or just a tag
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: yeah you can parse parts of a HTML doc in mf2py now
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yes will add to bridgy in a bit
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snarfed just realized i can search for quotes of multiple tweets by ORing their ids together, like i currently do for the mention link search: https://twitter.com/search?q=564316935001628672%20OR%20652182041757380608
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snarfed as for representing in mf2 and AS...are these just normal mentions?
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aaronpk if you wanna get fancy you could include the quoted tweet as an h-cite
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aaronpk but yeah just a normal mention i think
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snarfed and we don't currently know of any other silo corollaries, right?
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aaronpk i mean you're already doing this on twitter, just not for twitter URLs
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snarfed right, like i mentioned
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snarfed and on G+
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KartikPrabhu so are those tweets with embedded tweets /quotations ?
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snarfed evidently yes http://indiewebcamp.com/quotation#Silo_Examples
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KartikPrabhu gotcha! should have looked first!
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KartikPrabhu is there a u-quote-of ?
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KartikPrabhu oh shit my wiki-fu is diminishing
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KartikPrabhu u-quotation-of
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kevinmarks isn't it cite?
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KartikPrabhu u-quotation-of hcite
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KartikPrabhu s/hcite/h-cite
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: u-quotation-of h-cite
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tantek odd - Loqi missed my messages to kylewm at 8:01 this morning
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tantek let's try this again
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tantek !tell kylewm perhaps too subtle a distinction, but you're looking for: http://indiewebcamp.com/repost#How_to_Publish
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell kylewm the /reposts page (plural) is about part of the information about a post displayed on the post itself - I'll add a clarifying forwarding link
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek my 8:01 IRC messages didn't seem to even make it to the logs - hmm
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tantek did anyone else see those this morning? (that is, was it only Loqi that didn't get them, or was it my IRC client's failure?)
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aaronpk nor did they make it to my IRC client
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kylewm darn, thank you for fixing that for me tantek
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 1 minute ago: perhaps too subtle a distinction, but you're looking for: http://indiewebcamp.com/repost#How_to_Publish http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-08/line/1444346422700
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 1 minute ago: the /reposts page (plural) is about part of the information about a post displayed on the post itself - I'll add a clarifying forwarding link http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-08/line/1444346429681
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yeah not in logs either
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tantek KartikPrabhu: obv not in logs since Loqi does the logs as well as tell
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Loqi who, me?
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kylewm and I had even already commented on indiewebcamp.com/repost#Full_Context_Markup
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tantek heh
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kylewm I'm going to remove that old section, it's an earlier iteration of my thinking
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tantek cool - feel free to consolidate your brainstorming on markup as you best see it today!
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kylewm.com edited /repost () "(-976) /* Full Context Markup */ remove redundant section" (view diff)
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tantek more js;dr duh: "Kill JavaScript on any traditional article page out there and you’ll likely see very similar returns." - from http://timkadlec.com/2015/10/amp-and-incentives/
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aaronpk haha yeah
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aaronpk that's kind of why i thought AMP was a joke at first
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KartikPrabhu as TIm Kadlec points out I think AMP is more about distribution than making the web faster
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KartikPrabhu same carrot that FB and Apple are using
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KartikPrabhu with the added pretense of being an open format
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ShaneHudson_ I think things like this always get loads of hype then vanish. Same with Ello and all the others
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KartikPrabhu ShaneHudson_: when big companies like Google, FB and Apple puch this though, they will linger on. Like Schema, OpenGraph
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KartikPrabhu push*
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KartikPrabhu <meta viewport> any one
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ShaneHudson_ Perhaps. Though Google aren't known for keeping things alive
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ShaneHudson_ Not sure how many companies are involved though
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KartikPrabhu no they keep it on a respirator
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ShaneHudson_ Heh
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tantek Google has a long history of abandoned markup efforts. They're quite fickle in that regard.
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KartikPrabhu for example who knows if Google search still uses microdata
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tantek indeed, microdata never had a "community" around it, so as soon as Google switched their focus (documentation) from microdata to JSONLD, it started to get ignored in all the random SEO blog posts / write-ups etc.
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tantek also from that timkadlec article: "Please enable JavaScript to view the comments powered by Disqus." <-- thank you NOSCRIPT :)
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KartikPrabhu Yes. But Google never said "we don't use microdata anymore" they just allowed it to linger
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gRegorLove What are alternatives to <meta viewport>? I wasn't aware there was issues with it.
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "alternatives to <meta viewport>" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/104U
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gRegorLove Shh
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: CSS that is written as metadata. There is a proposal for @viewport in CSS now
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gRegorLove Ah, cool
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tantek gRegorLove: CSS WG was supposed to make @viewport work as a replacement, but the person (people?) who stepped up to write it up didn't make much progress, or didn't try hard enough to get browsers to implement it
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tantek I was going to work on it back in the day, but when other people were volunteering very strongly to work on it, I decided to let them - I had plenty of other things to work on.
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ShaneHudson_ I suppose @viewport is understandable.. it does separate presentation from content.
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KartikPrabhu http://caniuse.com/#feat=css-deviceadaptation
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tantek gRegorLove: note that meta viewport is not from Google - but rather Apple, and they tend to support their made-up markup etc. much longer than Google
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KartikPrabhu virtually no support. whereas Apple's meta hack is universally supported and probably won't go away
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ShaneHudson_ I was tempted to try implementing SVG paramentres, but Tab said it might be tricky to plumb correctly, so will leave it for someone that has done browser development before heh
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tantek basically, Apple decided to "be bold" and invent/ship what they thought was necessary for iOS "mobile apps" (actually web apps) back in 2007. and everyone else has been trying to catch-up / standardize ever since
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ShaneHudson_ *parameters
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KartikPrabhu well they could have "boldly" added a CSS property instead of meta
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ShaneHudson_ Heh
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tantek KartikPrabhu: and in some cases they did, e.g. all the -webkit- animation, transitions etc. stuff
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KartikPrabhu yes. my point exactly
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ShaneHudson_ Could you imagine if they had done animation with html!
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KartikPrabhu now we are stuck with the <meta viewport> nonsense
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tantek the viewport stuff is trickier - they needed to know immediately when loading the page what to do, and likely didn't want to wait til loading stylesheets to figure it out
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ShaneHudson_ Makes sense, same issues as resp images had/have
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tantek so I can see reasons to prefer a meta viewport hack for expediency, predictability, simplicity of authoring etc.
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KartikPrabhu ShaneHudson_: res images still tie presentation to markup. See srcset and picture. You have to specify how large the mage might be in the HTML
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KartikPrabhu hard stuff to get right though
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tantek heh: https://twitter.com/bryanrieger/status/651782717676216320
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@bryanrieger Sigh, here we go again… https://twitter.com/bryanrieger/status/651782717676216320/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/651782717676216320)
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tantek (see the screenshot)
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ShaneHudson_ KartikPrabhu: Precisely, due to needing to know before css loads mainly
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ShaneHudson_ (and without downloading all images)
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tantek looks like AMP is taking the XML fragile failure approach
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KartikPrabhu tantek: lol! XHTML FTW
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tantek well, so much for that
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ShaneHudson_ Hah oh dear
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tantek noting as an issue - in the hopes that it gets fixed
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KartikPrabhu forgiving parsing is probably the best decision in the design of HTML
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KartikPrabhu it has been hard to get back to Latex for the past week
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tantek KartikPrabhu: HTML got that from SGML
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ShaneHudson_ Yes. I used to be very much for xhtml, forcing people to do things properly... but it just doesn't work.
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ShaneHudson_ Especially when different people/browsers have different ideas of properly
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tantek ShaneHudson_: "forcing" rarely works in general. OTOH forgiveness and usability works quite well :)
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ShaneHudson_ tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 245 karma
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tantek.com edited /AMP (+669) "Issues, XML like fragility" (view diff)
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tantek wonders if anyone tried to fix the Planning vs planning situ
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ShaneHudson_ What's that?
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tantek see last night's IRC log ~18:00
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tantek ok my fault: 2015-06-05T11:07:07 Tantek.com (Talk | contribs | block) m (1,137 bytes) (moved 2015/ to 2015/planning: just a slash difference with 2015 is too small)
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tantek ShaneHudson_ correction, ~15:50 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-07#t1444258225910
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ShaneHudson_ Oh! Heh, I always think that URLs are case-insensitive. Tripped me up when I was fixing my webmention plugin
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aaronpk hostnames are case insensitive
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ShaneHudson_ Yeah
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aaronpk so you're not entirely wrong :)
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@williamj RT @lackaff: .@Medium launches Publishing API: automatically publish from personal sites and blogs to Medium #indieweb https://t.co/ZSEmCdu… (twitter.com/_/status/652270732710428673)
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tantek alright, the suggestion to do general IndieWebCamp planning at /Planning seems reasonable
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tantek aaronpk++ as usual
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Loqi aaronpk has 973 karma
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tantek haha that's what we used to do, /Planning, redirecting to the *next* IndieWebCamp's specific planning page, until we the # of camps exploded
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ShaneHudson_ Yeah there are quite a few now, it's impressive :)
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tantek ok trying to do the right thing here to preserve some history
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tantek.com moved /Planning to /next-iwc/Planning
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tantek.com moved /2015/planning to /Planning "move the general planning page across IndieWebCamps to the top level, since this has become more "living" than just 2015"
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tantek.com edited /Planning (-23) "no more per year planning pages" (view diff)