#indieweb

2015-11-30

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Loqi
[bridgy] John Rogerson replied '@kylewmahan but would sure like to come by the homebrew club again some time. i'm working in SF just now so a bit easier for me to be there.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF (https://twitter.com/iboxifoo/status/671238533877768192)
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Loqi
[bridgy] John Rogerson replied '@kylewmahan thanks for the heads up man. out of the loop somewhat. didn't plan for it. got a couple of things that day too. damn. enjoy.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF (https://twitter.com/iboxifoo/status/671238317233594368)
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@muhhbot
Die ganzen IndieWeb Plugins für Wordpress reizen mich ja nicht gedacht, dass das krasser als in Hanoi sein könnte. (twtr.io/16bQTs0QQKC)
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tantek
!tell snarfed great post re: keep Bridgy Publish simple. Makes a lot of sense and thanks for putting up with all the feature requests in github issues!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@HNSGR
#ownyourdata - own the interface (twtr.io/16bXaLYsT5b)
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[kevinmarks]
I thought it was another movie plot threat X-men Origins
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[kevinmarks]
Can't you send them back a webmention saying whether they are in or wait listed?
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[kevinmarks]
If you're not processing synchrously that's what you need.
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[kevinmarks]
I suppose it is an event ticket
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[kevinmarks]
Or a place in the queue for paid ones?
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Loqi
[kevinmarks]: tantek left you a message 12 hours, 33 minutes ago: Go get your IndieWebCamp SF ticket from Eventbrite! http://indiewebcamp.eventbrite.com/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-29/line/1448832412033
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Loqi
[kevinmarks]: tantek left you a message 12 hours, 33 minutes ago: Go get your IndieWebCamp SF ticket from Eventbrite! http://indiewebcamp.eventbrite.com/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-29/line/1448832412033
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petermolnar.eu
edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+1312) "a little cleanup + a few new entries" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu
edited /WordPress (+134) (view diff)
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petermolnar
!tell pfefferle could you please add me to https://github.com/IndieWebCamp-WordPress-Outreach-Club ?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar.eu
edited /WordPress_Outreach_Club (+18) "/* Members */" (view diff)
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bengo.is
edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+299) "bengo.is RSVPing" (view diff)
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bengo.is
edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+119) "/* Indie RSVPs */" (view diff)
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Loqi
[mention] Peter Molnar commented 'If it’s a paragraph, it’s a post. Medium-sized content gets short shrift these days. Don’t go long. One or two paragraphs count. Then press ...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (https://petermolnar.eu/re-short-form-blogging/)
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /Webmention (+666) "/* Implementations */" (view diff)
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@bblfish
@almereyda the first step to knowledge is acknowledging one's ignorance. Anyway progress is being made https://github.com/w3c-social/webmention/issues/14 (twtr.io/16bwFWM19c4)
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tommorris
kevinmarks: if you send a webmention to my endpoint, YOU BECOME A VAMPIRE. :P
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@sikkdays
@jennifermontes I just started using @withknown, the IndieWebCamp solution we talked about on the podcast. http://www.savethis.space/ (twtr.io/16c87BAWALo)
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tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp, all you wonderful real world implementers, builders, creators, and selfdogfooders.
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kylewm
oh wow, looks like 26 people have signed up for IWC via eventbrite
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ben_thatmustbeme
nice
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tantek
!tell aaronpk,bret,dietrich did we (you) get anyone to host HWC PDX this week? 2015-12-02
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk
I did not
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tantek
and bret said no for him too
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tantek
no word from dietrich
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tantek
assuming HWC PDX canceled this week then, unless we hear from dietrich
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gRegorLove
ben_thatmustbeme: When you get a chance, can you try sending a webmention with vouch to http://gregorlove.com/2015/11/testing-webmention-with-vouch-fingers/ ?
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tantek
did anyone hear from adactio about HWC Brighton this week?
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tantek.com
edited /events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club (+70) "/* Where */ PDX canceled this week, participate online!" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
gRegorLove: sure, though i have no idea what it will send exactly. I automated it all away :P
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gRegorLove
That's cool. It should accept if it's IWC, aaronpk, tantek, or snarfed.
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ben_thatmustbeme
it should have sent
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually, it may well have sent with a URL of yours
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gRegorLove
It did, yep.
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gRegorLove
And my code didn't accept it, so, bug to fix :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
would you like me to send one without that
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dietrich
tantek: pdxrust is in the office on weds :(
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Loqi
dietrich: tantek left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: are you around to host Portland Homebrew Website Club 2015-12-02? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-21/line/1448130704994
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Loqi
dietrich: tantek left you a message on 11/25 at 7:04pm: are you available to host HWC PDX on Wednesday? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448507068817
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Loqi
dietrich: tantek left you a message 8 minutes ago: did we (you) get anyone to host HWC PDX this week? 2015-12-02 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-30/line/1448905267106
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gRegorLove
ben_thatmustbeme: Yeah, if you could send one with indiewebcamp.com/irc-people that would be great
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tantek
dietrich: does anyone in PDX rust have their own website and hopefully post content on it?
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aaronpk
gRegorLove: can't you just do that for him?
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tantek
perhaps bring that up!
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tantek
challenge PDX Rust people to see who will be the first to setup a personal website running Rust as the backend and publish content on it
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tantek
throw down
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tantek
if your language is so awesome, can you publish on the web with it?
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gRegorLove
Oh yeah. nevermind, ben_thatmustbeme :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
heh
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ben_thatmustbeme
i wasn't going to say it, but now you have a specific page to test with
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ben_thatmustbeme
and i can probably come up with a list of vouches that will probably look good
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dietrich
tantek: hm, i do not know
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tantek
dietrich: go to PDX Rust and ask!
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dietrich
tantek: maybe ask qedunham?
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tantek
throwdown the challenge
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tantek
what good is your programming language if you can't build / run a webserver with it? ;)
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dietrich
tantek: points for enthusiasm, but no i'm not hijacking their meetup ;)
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tantek
dietrich: don't hijack, just ask during Q&A
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tantek
politely of course
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tantek
like this
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tantek
Is there a Rust HTTP server I can install on my server?
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tantek
Is anyone here running it?
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tantek
Live on the web?
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tantek
What's the URL?
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tantek
you get the idea
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tantek
hey did we fill up for IWC SF?
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gRegorLove
Yeah, I forget how simple webmention is sometimes, that I can just cURL it myself. :) It worked! Thanks, ben_thatmustbeme
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tantek
bengo++ for implementing /RSVP posts!
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Loqi
bengo has 9 karma
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tantek.com
edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (-277) "/* Participants */ update counts, bengo only counts once" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Vouch (+148) "/* gRegor Morrill */ received URLs" (view diff)
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tantek
!tell kylewm can you check the IWC SF Eventbrite admin and add attendees from there to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF/Guest_List#RSVPs_from_Other_Sites perhaps in a block *before* the Facebook RSVPs? (I want to believe the Eventbrite RSVPs more than the FB "Going" RSVPs). Thanks!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm.com
edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+2041) "/* RSVPs from Other Sites */ add in a bunch of Eventbrite RSVPs" (view diff)
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kylewm.com
edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (-317) "/* RSVPs from Facebook */ moving Darius to Eventbrite section" (view diff)
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kylewm.com
edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+316) "/* RSVPs from Eventbrite */" (view diff)
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@jkphl
Personal @nueww 2016 organizer schedule: 04/10 http://coderdojo-nbg.org 04/12 http://a11y.club 04/16-17 http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg Phew (twtr.io/16cLWzafyER)
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Loqi
[bridgy] Jens Grochtdreis replied '@jkphl und jetzt in vernünftiger Datums-Konfiguration, nicht diesem US-Quatsch :-)' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (https://twitter.com/Flocke/status/671400217615446016)
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Loqi
[bridgy] Joschi Kuphal 吉 replied '@Flocke Das kommt dann doch auf @webkrauts, hab ich gedacht! ;)' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/671400486164144128)
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Loqi
[bridgy] Jens Grochtdreis replied '@jkphl wenn Du die Termine eingibst, kommen sie auf alle Fälle bei den @webkrauts' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (https://twitter.com/Flocke/status/671400682390466560)
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Loqi
[bridgy] Joschi Kuphal 吉 replied '@Flocke Damit rechne ich fest. :) (und dann in vernünftig formatiert) +@webkrauts' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg (https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/671400894207041537)
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@benwerd
Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16cNhrJyMeC)
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@danlyke
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16cNsZaynAw)
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@BrightContrasts
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16cPJdeXF7j)
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@davidmead
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16cPZYzRaD4)
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@jzb
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16cPtc2RmNw)
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@shldrngdwrvs
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16cQPJsX7Ng)
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GWG
Monday, everyone
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kevinmarks
or loqi could count how many people are in indiewebcamp, and if it falls below a threshold, assume it's been split from
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GWG
KevinMarks, still working on svg at your suggestion
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kevinmarks
how's it going?
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upon2020.com
edited /User:Upon2020.com (-12) "/* Projects related to the indie web */" (view diff)
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upon2020.com
edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+316) "added Johannes Ernst" (view diff)
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upon2020.com
edited /User:Upon2020.com (-117) "updated" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /weight (+720) "add example" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub (+523) "clarifications" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub () "(-893) move weight example to [[weight]]" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
created /micropub-clients (+361) "move request from [[Micropub]]" (view diff)
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voxpelli
aaronpk: to simplify webmention implementation, could resolving target redirects perhaps be optional? so unless a site uses shortlinks itself it can skip resolving targets?
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub (-251) "move request to [[micropub-clients]]" (view diff)
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voxpelli
hasn't really resolve targets in his endpoint and might perhaps still not be doing it
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aaronpk
voxpelli: I think that's reasonable. Trying to think of the cases where I am resolving redirects right now.
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voxpelli
aaronpk: the webmention client has probably already resolved the redirect when looking up the endpoint :P so shouldn't really ever be necessary
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aaronpk
well that normally happens transparently by the http client
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voxpelli
well, never mind, of course it's necessary because one still needs to know what url to check for in the source
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voxpelli
one could wish for indieweb sites to never actually link to shortlinks in actual code but just accept shortlinks in the UI:s :P
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aaronpk
even if you don't have shortlinks for your own posts, you might change your URL structure at some point and have a bunch of URLs change
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aaronpk
and you'd still want to be able to accept webmentions for the old URLs
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aaronpk
assuming you're sending redirects for those, following your own redirects is a perfectly sane way of doing that
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voxpelli
I think the matching between a target URL and an actual entity within ones system should be entirely up to the implementation then, one probably wouldn't follow HTTP redirects to solve that case
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aaronpk
(I certainly do, because it's easier than any other way)
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aaronpk
but yes it is implementation specific
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snarfed
voxpelli aaronpk: agreed, whether/how to resolve wm target URLs is implementation specific, optional, and probably outside the spec...but there are definitely use cases for fetching and following HTTP redirects
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Loqi
snarfed: tantek left you a message 11 hours, 59 minutes ago: great post re: keep Bridgy Publish simple. Makes a lot of sense and thanks for putting up with all the feature requests in github issues! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-30/line/1448871833483
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snarfed
the obvious one is shortlinks you didn't create yourself - t.co, dlvr.it, etc
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aaronpk
i guess the question is if resolving your own URLs is implementation specific, is there actually any reason to require a WM receiver to follow redirects of a target?
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aaronpk
also note that it's only in the "protocol summary" where it mentions following redirects, the actual spec content doesn't mention that at all
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voxpelli
it adds unneeded complexity and is not something to be encouraged
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bear
most http get libraries won't even give you the redirect tree unless you ask for it - so doing a GET will just resolve any redirects
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aaronpk
this is for target, which the receiver isn't actually fetching
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bear
ah - right - sorry
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bear
for the target it's solidly in the "meh" category
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bear
if I want to care I will have a map
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kylewm.com
edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+299) "/* RSVPs from Facebook */" (view diff)
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voxpelli
aaronpk: as the receiver should validate whether the receiving URL is acceptable, one can easily show an error if it fails (+ would be hard to actually give such an error synchronously if one follows redirects)
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voxpelli
saw your comment now, lets leave it at that :)
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kylewm.com
edited /Template:Attendee (+71) "add indie RSVP placeholder" (view diff)
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kylewm.com
edited /Template:Attendee/Doc (+13) "/* Blank Template */" (view diff)
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kylewm.com
edited /Template:Attendee (+8) (view diff)
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kylewm.com
edited /Template:Attendee/Doc (+50) "/* Parameters */ add rsvp_url" (view diff)
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@thierrymarianne
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16cX2PMhL14)
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snarfed
voxpelli aaronpk: again, one clear use case for receivers following target redirects is when it's a shortlink someone else created, e.g. a t.co link
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kylewm.com
edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+301) "/* Participants */ re-merge Indie+wiki RSVPs and include rsvp_url in the attendee block; alpha-sort; update counts" (view diff)
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voxpelli
snarfed: yeah, but should be left to implementer to decide whether it wants to support receiving such mentions or not
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aaronpk
snarfed: do you accept those kind of target mentions?
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kylewm.com
edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+20) "/* RSVPs */ linkify my name" (view diff)
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voxpelli
(redirects are kind of a rabbit hole as well, if one wants to support redirects on eg. GitHub Pages one has to support meta-refresh – eg. Google does, but then you need to parse HTML as well :P )
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aaronpk
I don't think people should be required/expected to accept t.co mentions. If someone is sending a webmention to a link they found via t.co, they can resolve the redirect themselves and send you the real target.
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voxpelli
aaronpk: Twitter ToS might stop them :P
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voxpelli
but it should anyhow be up to receiver to decide if they want to accept a certain kind of mentions or not
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ben_thatmustbeme
t.co mentions make a lot of sense to follow, if twitter every starts to federate
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/every/ever/
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: t.co mentions make a lot of sense to follow, if twitter ever starts to federate
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aaronpk
okay let's start with this: who here follows redirects of a target before deciding whether to consider accepting the mention?
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ben_thatmustbeme
same issue for any service really. they may want to wrap outgoing URls for some reason or another
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ben_thatmustbeme
raises his hand
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aaronpk
does too
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ben_thatmustbeme
isn't that in one of the php libraries?
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ben_thatmustbeme
can't remember
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aaronpk
not sure, it's in my source code directly tho
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ben_thatmustbeme
indieweb php libs i mean
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voxpelli
such URL:s are very much a silo thing though, how many people actually wrap their URL:s?
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bear
huh, in my webmention code I don't follow target redirects and will reject it if the domain doesn't match
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kylewm
follows 1 redirect
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Loqi
kylewm: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 42 minutes ago: can you check the IWC SF Eventbrite admin and add attendees from there to https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF/Guest_List#RSVPs_from_Other_Sites perhaps in a block *before* the Facebook RSVPs? (I want to believe the Eventbrite RSVPs more than the FB "Going" RSVPs). Thanks! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-30/line/1448906968158
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voxpelli
+1 on bear, I will also reject of domain doesn't match a registered domain in my endpoint and I don't think I follow redirects (might have changed as part of my Salmention implementation as I then need to look up the target anyhow though)
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ben_thatmustbeme
i have shortlinks they could be mentioning, plus my internal redirects are messy, easier to follow exactly where something pionts than try to deal with recalculating exactly what it point to
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kylewm
^ that's why for me too
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voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: your shortlinks are on your own domain right? not eg. bitly?
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bear
yea, my story may change if I ever implement short links, but then that would require me to put the short link domain in the whitelist
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aaronpk
same for me, a side effect is that it means I also follow t.co and bit.ly etc
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ben_thatmustbeme
voxpelli: true
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aaronpk
I'm now considering whitelisting my domain and my short domain
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aaronpk
webmention.io also follows redirects, and it leads to a lot of noise in the database. Now that you can register domains with it (to set up callback URLs and such), I'm going to consider only accepting webmentions for registered targets
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think the idea is to look at what is actually done in social web right now, not just IWC, if you are drafting a spec, you have to consider that one of the largest silos does this, so its important to consider others might want to as well
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voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: not just if they're doing it but also why they're doing it and how that may change etc
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kylewm
I feel like KartikPrabhu added t.co following because someone (Doug Schepers?) wanted to webmention him from twitter
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voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: one possibility for Twitter would be to onclude the webmentioned links as link-tags or link-headers also btw
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kylewm
https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/marginalia-schepers
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ben_thatmustbeme
WHY they do it, is most interesting to me voxpelli, does anyone know the exact reason?
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voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: or some other mechanism to show actual URL to servers but a warning to users
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ben_thatmustbeme
is it JUST to shorten?
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aaronpk
pretty sure it's so they can stop twitter worms from spreading
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voxpelli
ben_thatmustbeme: to be able to stop phishing sites
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voxpelli
and similar
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aaronpk
they can kill a t.co link if they detect it's redirecting to a malicious site
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voxpelli
so they can stopped a linked to URL after the tweet has already been pushed to clients
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voxpelli
has to run
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ben_thatmustbeme
ah
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bear
i'll have to adjust my webmention library then to follow target URL redirects
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ben_thatmustbeme
than yeah, i will always follow all redirects
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ben_thatmustbeme
that seems like a valid use case to me
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bear
goes to file an issue against Ronkyuu lib
#
aaronpk
interesting outcome
#
aaronpk
follow-up question then, for everyone who is following target redirects, do you have a limit on the number of redirects you follow before giving up? (kylewm already said his limit is 1)
#
kylewm
i don't have any reason for it to be 1, probably just laziness
#
bear
I feel once you start following you should follow them all to be a good HTTP citizen
#
aaronpk
there is no "all" since it may be an infinite redirect loop
#
kylewm
snarfed++ bridgy pulling in mentions from twitter is so freaking cool
#
Loqi
snarfed has 175 karma
#
ben_thatmustbeme
whatever the default for Curl is
#
ben_thatmustbeme
thats my limit
#
bengo
Did indieauth.io twitter break because they started wrapping your profile website link in t.co?
#
snarfed
thanks snarfed!
#
bengo
I just re-added to my twitter bio the other day, donno if mine just doesn't work because it's caching my old twitter info
#
bear
I use the python requests library and it has a max redirect limit - not sure what it is, but that's why it's in place
#
snarfed
re wm target redirects, i use the wordpress plugins blindly; i'm not sure what they do, but i expect they don't follow them...which is fine with me in practice.
#
ben_thatmustbeme
huh, php curl has no limit set on max redirects
#
aaronpk
bengo: no, it's more likely this https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/88
#
ben_thatmustbeme
it does detect loops
#
snarfed
(i just mentioned t.co etc links as an example of why you *might* want to follow them, not that everyone should or that it shoudl go in the spec)
#
bengo
aaronpk: that sounds like it happens iff my site is www.bengo.is? which doesn't respond
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i feel like if someone take the time to send you a webmention for a URL that is not on your domain its probably something that will redirect to you
#
bengo
I guess one way of resolving my question is: Anyone indieauth with twitter recently?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
or its just total spam
#
aaronpk
bengo: ah huh, different issue then. and yes I just used twitter this morning.
#
bengo
aaronpk: ok then I'll wait it out. Probably has my old lack of link cached
#
bengo
thx
#
aaronpk
you can click "re-scan"
#
bengo
k
#
aaronpk
if that doesn't work, let me know the specific error
#
bengo
oh... works now. Was remembering from last night. Basically it just said it couldn't find the link on my twitter page. But it works now
#
ben_thatmustbeme
wonders if he should put a limit to number of redirects he will follow or not
#
bengo
didn't know about re-scan last night but glad it exists
#
bengo
ben_thatmustbeme you at least want to have a high number like 20
#
aaronpk
I was going to recommend whatever the browser default is
#
bengo
and catch the error. Otherwise users will just wait for longtime and probably just get a blank page and 504 response from an intermediate proxy
#
Jeena
My IndieWeb missionary work starts to bear fruits! http://www.savethis.space/2015/decentralizing-me
#
Loqi
Jeena: tantek left you a message on 11/25 at 7:02pm: are you hosting HWC Göteborg on https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-01-homebrew-website-club ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448506952544
#
Loqi
Jeena: tantek left you a message on 11/25 at 7:04pm: are you hosting HWC Göteborg on Wednesday I mean https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448507049603
#
Loqi
Jeena: tantek left you a message on 11/28 at 10:55am: Is there a HWC Göteborg this coming week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-28/line/1448736949713
#
ben_thatmustbeme
firefox is defaulted to 20
#
jeena.net
edited /events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club (-11) "/* Where */ Göteborg" (view diff)
#
bengo
Had this queued up from when I was hacking last night but no one was on: I'm pretty curious to hear a little bit more about how indiewebers are storing their data. e.g. do you have all your tweets in a SQL database? Do you go fetch some external API (or several) every time someone requests a page on your site? Do you memcache? Are your posts stored in a database server or on the filesystem? Folks can post here about
#
bengo
that, or maybe would make a good 15m open forum at iwcSF
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ben_thatmustbeme
most look to be 20
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ben_thatmustbeme
IE has 10
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jeena.net
edited /events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club (+12) "/* Göteborg */ jeena" (view diff)
#
aaronpk
bengo: as you might imagine, there's a pretty wide range of methods people use
#
bengo
aaronpk ofc but I think case studies would be super valuable to have published
#
bengo
lessons learned, etc.
#
aaronpk
well there's always this:
#
aaronpk
what is database antipattern?
#
Loqi
The database antipattern is the use of a database for primary long-term storage of posts and other personal content (like on an indieweb site), and is an anti-pattern due to the additional maintenance costs, uninspectability, platform-dependence, and long-term fragility of databases and their storage files, as documented with specific examples below https://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern
#
aaronpk
plenty of implementation experience there :)
#
bengo
ah cool will read thanks
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bengo
Makes sense. I am essentiall static. i.e. content is in repo with server code. But online publishing (e.g. micropub) will require deviation from that
#
bengo
So I'm particularly curious if there are micropubbers using filesystem only in a way that will scale to n+1 hosts, and how they've done it
#
aaronpk
not exactly, there are some examples of people writing a micropub endpoint that commits to the git repo and then publishes the static site
#
bengo
If I'm going to use a database, I don't want to pick github.com, which I don't own.
#
bengo
But that's good to know.
#
bengo
Perhaps I will make a wiki page to collect case studies and just mention it in lightning talk time at IWC
#
bengo
and encourage folks to fill
#
bengo
Is using a corporate web service as a database really less of an anti-pattern then running a database server? I'd vote no.
#
aaronpk
using github as a host isn't really any worse than using heroku or any other FTP service
#
snarfed
right. db vs filesystem (vs git, etc) is pretty orthogonal to which hosting provider you use, and at what level in the stack
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bengo
True. If github.com just happens to be the currently configured GIT_URL you've configured and it's nothing github specific, then awesome.
#
snarfed
for indieweb specifically, the consensus has generally been that you definitely need to own and control your domain. below that, though, it's totally up to you how and where you host and serve your site
#
snarfed
e.g. there are people on blogger and even tumblr who are fully indieweb and participate, even including indieauth and sending/receiving webmentions
#
snarfed
feels kinda strongly about this :P
#
bengo
Yeah I definitely wouldn't want to say anything normative that those aren't indiewebers. They best part is everyone gets to decide. Moreso curious about how others have chosen to do it
#
snarfed
normative--
#
Loqi
normative has -1 karma
#
snarfed
choice++
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bengo
As a corollary, "database antipattern" is expremely normative
#
Loqi
choice has 1 karma
#
snarfed
heh agreed
#
snarfed
"controversial divisive best practice," maybe
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bengo
:)
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snarfed
i think we often miscommunicate it as "using a db for any webapp is bad," when we really just mean "using a db for your own personal site may be bad." very different things.
#
bengo
If someone is currently supporting micropub publishing without using a networked database and can also scale past one rw filesystem, that's kinda what I'm curious about
#
bengo
(and doesn't outsource that user story to some other free service that is unlikely to be around in 5yrs)
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snarfed
eh. honestly scaling isn't really a problem for any of our personal sites, db or fs or whatever they're backed with
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snarfed
aaronpk may be the one exception, and even then only because he includes location, etc
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snarfed
sensors generate enough data that scaling actually matters. people, less so.
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aaronpk
i actually have a totally separate thing that stores all my location data. turns out a mysql/postgres database for that gets awkward fast, so now it's all in the filesystem
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snarfed
touche
#
aaronpk
but we're talking about adding around 50,000-80,000 records per day in that
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snarfed
yup
#
snarfed
and "outsourcing" and "unlikely to be around" aren't necessarily problems. if you own your domain, you can migrate elsewhere
#
snarfed
i'm resigned to/expect to switch host and/or CMS every ~5 years or so at this point
#
aaronpk
the "database antipattern" page is essentially a list of issues people have had with using a database as the primary store of their website and trying to keep it around more than a few years
#
aaronpk
i agree it's not the best name for the page :)
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bear
the name is also an IWC scaling issue
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snarfed
also a pretty peripheral thing, not at all central to what we do here
#
aaronpk
yeah, again, do whatever you want underneath http and html, but here are some things some of us have learned over time
#
aaronpk
s/underneath/to generate
#
Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: yeah, again, do whatever you want to generate http and html, but here are some things some of us have learned over time
#
gRegorLove
What is MySQL?
#
Loqi
MySQL is open source database software that is often used to store data in several indieweb CMS's like Known, and various other CMS's, e.g https://indiewebcamp.com/mysql
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voxpelli
bengo: I'm 100% static on my blog but has Micropub support through third party service that does git voodoo magic
#
gRegorLove
What is Postgres?
#
Loqi
PostgreSQL is a database used by some IndieWeb sites https://indiewebcamp.com/Postgres
#
gRegorLove
I believe there's "pro"-db experience on those pages.
#
bengo
I guess my long term interest is in architecting my indieweb stack such that I can truly trust it will continue working for many years. Yes that is a bit pedantic, but hey, it's a hobby.
#
gRegorLove
Catching up on the webmention target conversation, I follow redirects when processing async, but on initial receiving I am checking the target is a URL on my domain, so it wouldn't accept t.co links. I hadn't thought about that before today.
#
voxpelli
bengo: +1
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bengo
And yes, that will require putting it on metal in my closet.
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gRegorLove
It's a good thing to think about for sure, bengo
#
@seb_legall
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16caLJPTRHs)
#
gRegorLove
I've been on MySQL over a decade and pretty pleased with it.
#
bengo
(storage size over time is an issue too, especially as self-sensors become more prevalent. See: ipfs and storj)
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voxpelli
aaronpk: on the redirect count topic – I think I limited Bloglovin to 5, but should be implementation specific if one wants to follow both third-party and internal redirects as that might result in more than 5 in worst cases maybe
#
snarfed
bengo: will you also write your own OS? run a generator for power? become your own ISP? and get it to tier 1, so you can peer with the other backbone networks?
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snarfed
apologizes for being snarky
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voxpelli
bengo: storing HTML in git feels pretty solid to me
#
bengo
snarfed you're right about all that
#
bengo
And it's a good way to learn those lower layers
#
bengo
(Debian, Solar Power, bluetooth peering)
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bengo
You're asking the right questions :)
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snarfed
i'm jealous, you have way more free time than i do :P
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bengo
My site was down for six months until a week ago. YOu make bridgy awesome every week!
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bengo
:P
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snarfed
heh. thanks!
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bengo
Thinking easier than doing. And to your point about practically being in control means you can deal with disruptions to external services, that's what I plan to do until I have my indiemark way higher and that other stuff actually matters.
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bengo
Donno proper wiki page to link to wrt avoiding getting lost in the sky
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voxpelli
bengo: so basically I do progressive enhancement on my content – my core content is static and versioned through git, but webmentions and such that are just nice to haves are stored in DB and pulled in through JS or linked to on external sites
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bengo
voxpelli me too on the first part https://github.com/gobengo/bengo-web/tree/master/notes. I don't publish webmentions yet, just feel good knowing webmention.io is storing them for me until I'm ready :)
#
bengo
Finally, wrt database-over-tcp vs filesystem. Things like this can make it so that the latter scales even further than the former. http://docs.ceph.com/docs/master/cephfs/
#
bengo
So definitely not hating on filesystem folks (like me right now)
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voxpelli
bengo: looks like something that could fit with my Micropub approach pretty well ;) you would just need an alternative formatter that doesn't use YAML front matter
#
bengo
voxpelli where is there YAML front matter?
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voxpelli
bengo: in my formatter that converts the received Micropub document to a file that I can add to git
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voxpelli
bengo: wrote a bit about it at https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kodfabrik.se#.22A_Micropub_Endpoint.22, but haven't yet written a full blog post about it or actually published the glue between the parts openly
#
bengo
Ah cool will read.
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voxpelli
client work got inbetween – maybe I can do it before the end of the year as a 2016 01 01 commitment
#
bengo
ooh yay node libs
#
voxpelli
bengo: all of my indieweb stuff is node, my webmention endpoint as well
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bengo
me too :)
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voxpelli
-> https://webmention.herokuapp.com/
#
voxpelli
what is 2016-01-01-commitments?
#
Loqi
2016-01-01-commitments are implementation and launch commitments publicly made by the IndieWeb community to ship on their personal sites by 2016-01-01 00:00 local time https://indiewebcamp.com/2016-01-01-commitments
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voxpelli
still only bear there?
#
bengo
voxpelli Also have this that I hope to generalize bengo-web features into: http://npm.im/indieweb
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bengo
https://indieweb-example.herokuapp.com/
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voxpelli
bengo: cool, you can probably hook https://github.com/voxpelli/node-micropub-express right into that to get basic micropub support
#
bengo
https://github.com/gobengo/indieweb/issues/6
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bengo
Added :)
#
bengo
(to backlog)
#
gRegorLove
voxpelli: What's your 2016-01-01 commitment? ;) (thanks for the prompt. I need to post mine and update the wiki)
#
voxpelli
gRegorLove: not sure, so many things to pick from! I've got a bit too many projects at the moment :)
#
kylewm
anyone have experience with Hoodie?
#
@ErosBlogBacchus
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16cchypxPQp)
#
kylewm
I think I want to use it for my hack day project
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bengo
what is hoodie
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "hoodie" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/1086
#
bengo
Flying back from AR->SF. See y'all thursday (and some tomorrow)
#
tantek
would a hoodie be a clothing symbol of independence? should we make indieweb hoodies?
#
aaronpk
isn't a hoodie the clothing symbol of zuckerberg?
#
tantek
nah, the flip flops
#
tantek
or perhaps the pairing of
#
aaronpk
https://beingsakin.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/social-network-jesse-eisenberg.jpg
#
aaronpk
is what i was thinking of
#
kylewm
Hoodie (http://hood.ie) is an open source library for building web applications
#
kylewm
Hoodie (http://hood.ie) is an open source library for building web applications.
#
aaronpk
"Hoodie is"
#
tantek
kylewm: got to be "keyword" (space) is
#
tantek
what is hacker photo
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "hacker photo" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/1087
#
tantek
pretty sure we have that documented
#
tantek
hacker photo is [[hacker images]]
#
loqi.me
created /hacker_photo (+26) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-30/line/1448920973167 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi
ok
#
kylewm
Hoodie is an open source library for building web applications; it is intended to be fun and easy for frontend developers to build applications that plug into the Hoodie backend.
#
loqi.me
created /Hoodie (+205) "prompted by bengo https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-30/line/1448920775522 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
#
Loqi
ok
#
tantek
aaronpk: allow me to retort: http://www.gruenderszene.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/panthermedia_9195774_940x627_crop.jpg
#
aaronpk
heh nice
#
Jeena
Mr. Robot!
#
Jeena
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zSqu8myTkY8/maxresdefault.jpg
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#
@dch__
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16cdWFXKdXV)
#
tantek
let's re-use "Dark Web" to mean invisible web - as in invisible data that rots, sidefiles and such
#
aaronpk
lol
#
tantek.com
edited /hacker_images (+281) "Jesse Eisenberg" (view diff)
#
tantek
last I checked hoodie.io it was a js;dr framework - anyone have any recent experience to the contrary?
#
snarfed
on an unrelated note...does anyone using the facebook API have experience with how it consolidates photo posts? e.g. into "X added 2 new photos." post objects
#
aaronpk
js frameworks are fine for apps if they're not storing or serving content that way
#
tantek
snarfed: good question!
#
snarfed
it breaks bridgy, details in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/562#issuecomment-160217774 , and i haven't managed to find developer-facing/API docs on how to handle it
#
snarfed
official or otherwise
#
tantek
my limited anecdotal experience is it happens automatically (perhaps on the presentation side?) when sequential photo posts are published, less than 24 hours apart from each other
#
aaronpk
the last couple weeks i've been using a JS IRC client! it stores its logs in plaintext files on my server though so that's nice!
#
tantek
as in I've seen it cluster photos like that, except when I post a photo sequentially *the next day*, it gets its own stream "item" in my "timeline"
#
tantek
instead of being part of the previous "cluster" of "added to an album"
#
tantek
not sure if that helps
#
tantek
also if I post a photo, then a note, then a photo, they are all distinct items
#
tantek
not sure what happens if I do that, then delete the note, whether a subsequent reclustering occurs
#
snarfed
yeah, the user-facing behavior is somewhat understood, but only somewhat. how it's reflected in API objects and ids - the part i need - is even less understood. :/
#
tantek
you may not need full understanding in order to solve the problem
#
kylewm
also good read re: hacker photo http://matt.lee.name/super-hacker/
#
tantek
that is, if you can do some sequence of API calls to cause unique posts rather than "album" clustering, that would be sufficient right?
#
snarfed
tantek: sure! that's totally speculative though
#
snarfed
well, actually no. this is for backfeed, so i can't assume any posting behavior
#
tantek
snarfed, hey in the world of quarterly API changes, speculative seems like a reasonable path forward
#
tantek
oh right
#
tantek
sorry I was jumping to imagining BP behaving in a way that made BB better
#
tantek
as a "naive" user, I would expect a single BP "call" to make a single post, not to auto-cluster anything
#
tantek
I'm "ok" with current behavior, yet it's a bit of a surprise
#
jeena.net
edited /events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club (+82) "/* Göteborg */ added event urls" (view diff)
#
jeena.net
edited /events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club (+1) "/* Göteborg */" (view diff)
#
kevinmarks
responding to the earlier question, my webmention implementation doesn't follow target links initially to verify, but does to look for webmention endpoints to ping. I could change that though
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loqi.me
created /DoPA (+470) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /DoPA (+232) "more how to respond, see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /DoPA (+137) "linky, expand dfn" (view diff)
#
kevinmarks
this is DoPA relevant: http://www.businessinsider.com/oss-manual-sabotage-productivity-2015-11
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tantek
that businessinsider article is js;dr
#
tantek
js;dr is a good DoPA shield too
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#
kevinmarks
better citation https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/simple-sabotage.html
#
@dkreuz
RT @timklapdor: THIS! Higher Ed needs to start backing the indieweb rather than spending/investing on the big corporates & startups https:/… (twtr.io/16cjt0ntVjY)
#
kevinmarks
what is dopa
#
Loqi
DoPA is an abbreviation for Denial of Productivity Attack, a method often used by trolls and non-implementers (perhaps without explicit maliciousness but rather misfocus) to slow down or prevent progress by misdirecting creator selfdogfooders into responding to hypothetical problems, instead of their own real world itches https://indiewebcamp.com/DoPA
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kevinmarks.com
edited /DoPA (+1101) "Add CIA example" (view diff)
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#
@FrederickLittl3
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16cmApfUWw2)
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu
re: webmention from twitter links. I never managed to figure out how to do it
#
kevinmarks
apart from brid.gy
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah. but marginalia with twitter is hard
#
KartikPrabhu
because I only use replies as marginalia
#
tantek
Twitter @-replies can be replies
#
tantek
via Bridgy
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KartikPrabhu
but you can't reply to a fragmention via twitter so no marginalia
#
tantek
thus the question is, how could one indicate, in plain text in a tweet, that an @-reply is in reply to a particular fragment on a page?
#
tantek
solve that question, with a reasonable proposal, and see if anyone publishes it
#
tantek
then if you get real world examples, you can try processing it
#
tantek
never say "you can't" when you can ask "how can you"
#
KartikPrabhu
here is an example: https://twitter.com/shepazu/status/484902457047130113
#
@shepazu
@kartik_prabhu very cool, but the side-panel needs its own “close” button, in addition to the annotation icon https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/marginalia (twtr.io/o6z2Wikb8Z)
#
KartikPrabhu
even Loqi strips out the fragmention
#
Loqi
:)
#
@DodgerWA
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16cnutuii_Q)
#
tantek
aww - why does Loqi strip out the fragmention?!? perhaps file a bug on /Loqi
#
tantek
gives Loqi a warning that a bug report is coming
#
Loqi
hearts the warning that a bug report is coming
#
KartikPrabhu
what is Loqi?
#
Loqi
Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel and other channels https://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi
#
KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: is the wiki page the best place to file Loqi bugs?
#
kevinmarks
I think twiter strips it oo
#
kevinmarks
oh no
#
KartikPrabhu
no the link in that tweet works just fine
#
kevinmarks
its https://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia#%23scrollable+side-panel
#
kevinmarks
very retro fragmention stylings there
#
KartikPrabhu
you mean the grey highlight?
#
kevinmarks
no, I meant the #%23
#
KartikPrabhu
oh ha yeah
#
KartikPrabhu
but it still works
#
KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal++ for pretty robust fragmention.js
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Loqi
JonathanNeal has 17 karma
#
kartikprabhu.com
edited /Loqi (+137) "fragmention bug" (view diff)
#
tantek
what is 2016?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "2016" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/1089
#
tantek
2016 is /Planning
#
loqi.me
created /2016 (+21) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-30/line/1448928293798 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
#
Loqi
ok
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kevinmarks
JonathanNeal++
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Loqi
JonathanNeal has 18 karma
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tantek.com
edited /Planning (+247) "dfn" (view diff)
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loqi.me
created /Germany (+25) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com
created /2016/Germany (+203) "stub" (view diff)
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kevinmarks
hm, odd brid.gy webmention on kevinmarks.com
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snarfed
which¿
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kevinmarks
I replied ot a dangillmor tweet, and it sent a webmention to me of my own tweet
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kevinmarks
https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1448826343&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyNQsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIid0YWc6dHdpdHRlci5jb20sMjAxMzo2NzEwNTA4MDYyMDA4MTk3MTIM
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snarfed
looking
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kevinmarks
oh, did it think this https://twitter.com/dangillmor/status/671050571772653568
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@dangillmor
Maybe the Web is better than apps for building a business after all... https://medium.com/swlh/mobile-app-developers-are-suffering-a5636c57d576 h/t @kevinmarks (twtr.io/16aFhdLy_so)
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kevinmarks
was a POSSE of my homepage?
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kevinmarks
and so my reply was a reply to my own page?
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snarfed
ah. no, it's from his @-mention. it sends both @-mentions and replies to them to your home page
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snarfed
it doesn't think they're POSSEs, just mentions and responses to them
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kevinmarks
but dan's mention doesn't show up
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kevinmarks
just RTs of it
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snarfed
ok. i think it should have sent his; not sure if/why it's not there
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snarfed
oh, funny. kevinmarks it actually sent your RT of his original tweet, and then his RT of your reply. https://brid.gy/twitter/kevinmarks?responses_before=2015-11-30T03:15:52.212750#responses
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snarfed
drowns in the the twisty maze of tweets all alike
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tantek
(re)tweets all alike
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tantek
!tell aaronpk what do you think of renaming the annual "main" IndieWebCamp in Portland, the "IndieWeb Summit"
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
actually, everyone - what do you think of renaming the annual "main" IndieWebCamp in Portland, the "IndieWeb Summit" (but obv aaronpk as lead local organizers)
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tantek
s/organizers/organizer
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: actually, everyone - what do you think of renaming the annual "main" IndieWebCamp in Portland, the "IndieWeb Summit" (but obv aaronpk as lead local organizer)
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tantek
finds it funny that his muscle memory assumes plural organizers :)
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bear
IMO IndieWebCamp could just become IndieWeb Summit
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bear
and then each region can have their's
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tantek
bear - Summit usually implies *precisely* once a year
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bear
right, but IndieWeb Summit [US, EU, ...]
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tantek
which is why the "main" IndieWebCamp makes sense as the candidate for renaming as an annual "Summit"
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tantek
of course it can (will likely) have multiple simultaneous venues
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tantek
that's orthogonal
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tantek
point being it is a specific set of days per year
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tantek
and all the other city-specific/focused camps stay as IndieWebCamps
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bear
twas just a thought
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tantek
the point here is to elevate the main annual event
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tantek
or rather to give it a name that reflects the fact that it is more special
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tantek
both in the past, and explicitly for the future
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bear
nods
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bear
my thought experiment was to see how it felt (to me) having one of them be more special than all of the other camps
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tantek
I think we're at the point of having enough critical mass and year-over-year proven track record of claiming the mantle of "IndieWeb Summit"
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bear
agree
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tantek
sure, my point is, it's already more special, so let's make that clear
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tantek
hey Kongaloosh how is HWC Edi going?
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tantek
or going
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tantek
checks https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-01-homebrew-website-club for photos...
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GWG
Good evening
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snarfed
downloads 5G of bridgy data so he can crunch some stats
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GWG
snarfed: Anything going on?
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snarfed
well, that
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tantek
snarfed, that sounds "big"
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tantek
;)
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snarfed
hah not quite
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bear
how well does it compress?
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snarfed
https://snarfed.org/2013-10-15_big-data
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snarfed
bear: kinda n/a, the native format is compressed :P
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bear
nice!
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tantek.com
edited /next-hwc (+0) "next - sf!" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+9) "San Francisco" (view diff)
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tantek
oops, time traveling again
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tantek.com
edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-9) "Undo revision 23481 by [[Special:Contributions/Tantek.com|Tantek.com]] ([[User talk:Tantek.com|talk]])" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /next-hwc (+0) "Undo revision 23480 by [[Special:Contributions/Tantek.com|Tantek.com]] ([[User talk:Tantek.com|talk]])" (view diff)
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tantek
sorry to bother you Kongaloosh, had briefly errantly set my internal clock forward by one day
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tantek
wants optimistically scheduled wiki edits.
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tantek
let me try that again
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tantek
I want scheduled optimistic wiki edits.
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@benwerd
Edinburgh! Homebrew Website Club is on Tuesday, 5:30pm at Bar 50. Meet people, and help build an independent web. https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-01-homebrew-website-club (twtr.io/16cvtTQmM0p)
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aaronpk
good evening
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 52 minutes ago: what do you think of renaming the annual "main" IndieWebCamp in Portland, the "IndieWeb Summit" http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-30/line/1448929683305
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tantek
benwerd++ thanks for getting the word out!
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Loqi
benwerd has 103 karma
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aaronpk
interesting idea, I would be up for that
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aaronpk
no pun intended
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tantek
alright then
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kevinmarks
you have to hold it on top of Mt Rainier?
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aaronpk
if we pull off the Düsseldorf one again in 2016 that one is going to quickly rival Portland in terms of number of attendees and productivity though!
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tantek
wow!
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tantek
yeah I just emailed joschi about it
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tantek
and asked him to show up in IRC to help collectively discuss it and get more Europeans involved!
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aaronpk
Joschi is talking about Nürnberg, Marc does the one in Düsseldorf
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tantek
what is 2016/Germany?
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tantek
oh sorry
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tantek
yes
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tantek
what is Germany?
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Loqi
There are at least a couple of IndieWebCamps being planned for Germany in 2016 https://indiewebcamp.com/Germany
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kevinmarks
I suppose technically the Edinburgh one is also on a summit
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tantek
does some prior term use search for indieweb summit and indie web summit
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dhalgren`
how big was Düsseldorf?
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aaronpk
dhalgren`: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany
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dhalgren`
ah, thx
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tantek
finds only one instances of confusion of each with last year's indie tech summit, which itself was only tweeted about 4 times this year so it seems like it's safe to use IndieWeb Summit or Indie Web Summit or even IndieWebSummit for 2016
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dhalgren`
is there any interest/chance of convincing Wordpress to be more indieweb-friendly by default?
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GWG
tantek: Isn't Web Summit a conference in Dublin every year?
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GWG
dhalgren`: I've been working on that.
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dhalgren`
ohh, nice. anyone biting on their end?
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GWG
dhalgren`: Simple answer...there is a chance. Interest...debatable.
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GWG
I've had mixed results.
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dhalgren`
got it
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GWG
dhalgren`: I think I'd need more than just me saying it
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dhalgren`
hm? sry didn't understand your last comment? saying what 'it' & need more of what?
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GWG
dhalgren`: The WordPress Core team need more than one individual advocating for Indieweb stuff.
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dhalgren`
ahh, yy, sure
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kevinmarks
invite any Automattic people you know to IWC SF
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dhalgren`
is there a petition to sighg :D
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tantek
dhalgren - I think plugins and live deployment on personal sites speak louder than petition signings!
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GWG
dhalgren`: What would you want them to do to be more Indieweb friendly? If you were to put it in one sentence?
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GWG
tantek: I'm fighting the fight on multiple fronts.
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GWG
Plugins, the most popular starter theme, the built-in themes, WordPress Core, etc.
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dhalgren`
tantek: heh true; I guess bunch of folks around here enjoys rolling their own though, so wordpress doesn't get chosen
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GWG
dhalgren`: I am one of the WordPress people
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dhalgren`
makes sense; given your interest. I'm not sure what the priorities are; naively I thought producing uf2 markup we can consume from their common themes?
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tantek
dhalgren`: WordPress is a very well respected peer around these parts
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tantek
folks using WordPress as the foundation of their IndieWeb efforts tend to be very productive and have quite advance /IndieMark levels
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GWG
dhalgren`: WordPress has classic microformats, not microformats2 by default.
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GWG
But there is a proposal to address that.
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GWG
I wrote it
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dhalgren`
tantek: hm, really? guess there's a reason that CMS is so dominant; I kinda expected it would introduce complexity
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tantek
GWG, are we tracking these proposals with links on /WordPress?
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GWG
tantek: That is a very good idea.
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tantek
dhalgren`: yes - that's the same presumption that a lot of us make too
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GWG
One I should get right on.
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tantek
thank you GWG!
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tantek
hence there is a lot of handrolled, homerolled, one might even say, homebrewed solutions around these parts ;)
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tantek
but the results that WordPress folks get around here speak for themselves - quite impressive
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GWG
tantek: I'll thank you for my percentage of that compliment.
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tantek
GWG++ for a huge percentage of that
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Loqi
GWG has 131 karma
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david.shanske.com
edited /WordPress (+485) "/* Development */" (view diff)
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kevinmarks
also silo.pub for posting to wordpress.com
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GWG
dhalgren`: Have you tried any of the Indieweb WordPress plugins?
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dhalgren`
no. I'll go w static site generation first; already have most of the code, though its a bit ineegant, but dammit it works.. Plus I can then write in org-mode and just git push, which is a nice authoring flow for me.
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dhalgren`
figuring out the markup and what further metadata fields I should add, and then if this thing doesn't get live by the end of the week, I swear I'll amputate my brain, for its obv serving no purpose :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
huh, aaronpk, i stopped using /author/1 for my url some time ago, but it looks like posts are still getting there that way
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ben_thatmustbeme
http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/17/1/p3k
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: still? that is from a year ago
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh, wait
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ben_thatmustbeme
sorry, i confused myself
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ben_thatmustbeme
i responded a very similar way to gRegorLove's post
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ben_thatmustbeme
and i thought it was getting there via salmention
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ben_thatmustbeme
heh
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aaronpk
ha
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gRegorLove
Hehe
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gRegorLove
No salmentions support on my end yet
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm actually really close on private posts
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ben_thatmustbeme
i just don't have a way to actually set the people who can access the post yet
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tantek
I have no idea how I'm going to get person tagging done by tomorrow (and thus done in time to demo at IWC)
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tantek
I think I nerdsniped myself into overdesigning the UI / storage etc. for it
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dhalgren`
GWG: WP just looks like an enormous userbase it'd be nice to be (part-)compatible with, as a frequent comment I hear re silo alternatives is "but nobody's there". blogosphere is huge.
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GWG
dhalgren`: I could use help and new users.
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gregorlove.com
edited /Template:twitter-link (+0) "update twitter icon hotlink" (view diff)
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dhalgren`
fair; that is a bigger picture than my nerdjerking (though, I'll find it a home, somewhere!^^)... in fact, lemme take a look mayhaps I have free wp hosting opc clicks away.
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dhalgren`
s/opc/few/
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Loqi
dhalgren` meant to say: fair; that is a bigger picture than my nerdjerking (though, I'll find it a home, somewhere!^^)... in fact, lemme take a look mayhaps I have free wp hosting few clicks away.
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: want to try logging in to my site and then seeing if you can see https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/12/1/1/
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aaronpk
ooh
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ben_thatmustbeme
crosses fingers
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aaronpk
are you intentionally redirecting to a 404 page before I log in, as opposed to showing a login prompt or some other indication that there's something there?
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aaronpk
oops still is 404 even after signing in
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ben_thatmustbeme
damn
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ben_thatmustbeme
it got the right person_id for you though, so thats good at least
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Loqi
:sadface:
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, i intentionally make it look like there is nothing there
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dhalgren`
GWG: quite a few clicks apparently, but think It'll go up. gotta wait! thx for making the argument!
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: try again
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ben_thatmustbeme
also, once logged in, notice the home page feed too!
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ben_thatmustbeme
need to make it visible
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aaronpk
ooh there it is!
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, just need to make it obvious that its a private post
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ben_thatmustbeme
and its set to optional to display the addressee or not
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ben_thatmustbeme
so basically BCC
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /private_posts (+112) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ private posts working \o/" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /private_posts (-2) "/* {{aaronpk}}} */ fix extra } in aaron's header" (view diff)
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dhalgren`
well, the dns resolves at least now, but I'm not sure I'll actually have ftp access which I gather is required to upload plugins so this might be an abortive attempt
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kevinmarks
deletes schema cruft injected into my blogger template
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kevinmarks
they're still using aabr not time o_O
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tantek
sigh
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tantek
what is a Blogger template?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Blogger template" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/108B
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aaronpk
rhiaro: you're using the webmention.io jf2 callbacks now right?
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tantek.com
edited /2015/SF (+48) "/* Organizers */ adding Andi Galpern for her help with Eventbrite setup / outreach / and being another organizer contact" (view diff)
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rhiaro
aaronpk: not finished switching to that yet, no
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tantek
welcome back andicascadesf - please coordinate with kylewm for any remaining IndieWebCamp planning before the event! Thanks!
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andicascadesf
@kylewm Hi Kyle! Can you add me as an organizer / host to the Facebook event page? I’d like to help manage the attendees and make sure everyone confirms their spot by signing up on Eventbrite. https://www.facebook.com/events/175203116150206/
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Loqi
andicascadesf: snarfed left you a message on 11/25 at 2:04pm: cool! lots of feedback earlier in case you missed it: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25#t1448462922435 (scroll down from there) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448489051679
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Loqi
andicascadesf: kevinmarks left you a message on 11/25 at 2:08pm: the previous one almost had the words aligned with the stylised letters - yours is more asymmetric http://svgforall.appspot.com/s/2d http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448489281258
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Loqi
andicascadesf: kevinmarks left you a message on 11/25 at 2:09pm: I made a HWC clone logo that aligned them more http://svgforall.appspot.com/s/1k http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448489396988
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kylewm
andicascadesf: sure! added
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kylewm
although it's already over-booked :/
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andicascadesf
yes, but people always cancel the last minute.
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andicascadesf
especially for a free event
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kylewm.com
edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+213) "/* RSVPs from Eventbrite */ 2 more waitlisters" (view diff)
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@haverholm
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16dNhg2me4Y)
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@xkummerer
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16dNsJztuVL)
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@vadsten
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16dQZn0QLcL)
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@strugee2
RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twtr.io/16dRV2_MxyQ)
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