voxpelliI think the matching between a target URL and an actual entity within ones system should be entirely up to the implementation then, one probably wouldn't follow HTTP redirects to solve that case
snarfedvoxpelli aaronpk: agreed, whether/how to resolve wm target URLs is implementation specific, optional, and probably outside the spec...but there are definitely use cases for fetching and following HTTP redirects
voxpelliaaronpk: as the receiver should validate whether the receiving URL is acceptable, one can easily show an error if it fails (+ would be hard to actually give such an error synchronously if one follows redirects)
voxpelli(redirects are kind of a rabbit hole as well, if one wants to support redirects on eg. GitHub Pages one has to support meta-refresh â€“ eg. Google does, but then you need to parse HTML as well :P )
aaronpkI don't think people should be required/expected to accept t.co mentions. If someone is sending a webmention to a link they found via t.co, they can resolve the redirect themselves and send you the real target.
voxpelli+1 on bear, I will also reject of domain doesn't match a registered domain in my endpoint and I don't think I follow redirects (might have changed as part of my Salmention implementation as I then need to look up the target anyhow though)
ben_thatmustbemei have shortlinks they could be mentioning, plus my internal redirects are messy, easier to follow exactly where something pionts than try to deal with recalculating exactly what it point to
aaronpkwebmention.io also follows redirects, and it leads to a lot of noise in the database. Now that you can register domains with it (to set up callback URLs and such), I'm going to consider only accepting webmentions for registered targets
ben_thatmustbemei think the idea is to look at what is actually done in social web right now, not just IWC, if you are drafting a spec, you have to consider that one of the largest silos does this, so its important to consider others might want to as well
bengoHad this queued up from when I was hacking last night but no one was on: I'm pretty curious to hear a little bit more about how indiewebers are storing their data. e.g. do you have all your tweets in a SQL database? Do you go fetch some external API (or several) every time someone requests a page on your site? Do you memcache? Are your posts stored in a database server or on the filesystem? Folks can post here about
LoqiThe database antipattern is the use of a database for primary long-term storage of posts and other personal content (like on an indieweb site), and is an anti-pattern due to the additional maintenance costs, uninspectability, platform-dependence, and long-term fragility of databases and their storage files, as documented with specific examples below https://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern
snarfedfor indieweb specifically, the consensus has generally been that you definitely need to own and control your domain. below that, though, it's totally up to you how and where you host and serve your site
gRegorLoveCatching up on the webmention target conversation, I follow redirects when processing async, but on initial receiving I am checking the target is a URL on my domain, so it wouldn't accept t.co links. I hadn't thought about that before today.
voxpelliaaronpk: on the redirect count topic â€“ I think I limited Bloglovin to 5, but should be implementation specific if one wants to follow both third-party and internal redirects as that might result in more than 5 in worst cases maybe
bengoThinking easier than doing. And to your point about practically being in control means you can deal with disruptions to external services, that's what I plan to do until I have my indiemark way higher and that other stuff actually matters.
voxpellibengo: so basically I do progressive enhancement on my content â€“ my core content is static and versioned through git, but webmentions and such that are just nice to haves are stored in DB and pulled in through JS or linked to on external sites
kevinmarksresponding to the earlier question, my webmention implementation doesn't follow target links initially to verify, but does to look for webmention endpoints to ping. I could change that though
LoqiDoPA is an abbreviation for Denial of Productivity Attack, a method often used by trolls and non-implementers (perhaps without explicit maliciousness but rather misfocus) to slow down or prevent progress by misdirecting creator selfdogfooders into responding to hypothetical problems, instead of their own real world itches https://indiewebcamp.com/DoPA
tantekfinds only one instances of confusion of each with last year's indie tech summit, which itself was only tweeted about 4 times this year so it seems like it's safe to use IndieWeb Summit or Indie Web Summit or even IndieWebSummit for 2016
dhalgren`no. I'll go w static site generation first; already have most of the code, though its a bit ineegant, but dammit it works.. Plus I can then write in org-mode and just git push, which is a nice authoring flow for me.
dhalgren`figuring out the markup and what further metadata fields I should add, and then if this thing doesn't get live by the end of the week, I swear I'll amputate my brain, for its obv serving no purpose :)