#indiewebcamp 2015-12-14

2015-12-14 UTC
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kylewm bret: I referenced it! thanks :)
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bret it was probrably one of the weirdest multipart posts ive ever made
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bret luckiy node's primary file interface handles file chunking
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kylewm heh, python does not as far as i could tell
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kylewm i write out 1MB temporary files and then upload them one at a time
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bret tantek: https://www.npmjs.com/package/twitter-video a thingy i wrote
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bret https://i.imgflip.com/vpzad.jpg ;D
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tantek what is twitter-video?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "twitter-video" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/109o
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GWG I haven't done a reply to a webmention enabled site in a while, thank you, tommorris
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tantek twitter-video is Node package for something to do with Twitter and video https://www.npmjs.com/package/twitter-video
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loqi.me created /twitter-video (+143) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-13/line/1450052106319 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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bret aww it didnt need a whole wiki page
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tantek bret, perhaps you can document it on /video and /Twitter ?
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tantek otherwise, gotta start somewhere
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bret at most on twitter
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tantek anyway - a brief definition would be a good addition to /twitter-video
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bret fixed
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tantek now thinking of expanding my image+URL auto-linking to video+image+URL to make it easier to paste video URL, poster URL, permalink URL and have it all auto-combine into a <video> element with poster, source src, and fallback link inside to the permalink
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GWG tantek: Any news on next week?
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tantek GWG, none so far, I mean, I'll be in town, but that's the only for sure so far.
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GWG tantek: We could always try something.
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GWG I'm told that two people still form a group
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GWG Something HWC like
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GWG If IWC doesn't work out
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tantek true. I may try to work from Mozilla Brooklyn on Friday
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tantek and Mozilla Manhattan on Thursday
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GWG I'm off Fridats'
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GWG Fridays
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GWG And I could head into Manhattan Thursday night
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kousu_xmpp Hello #indiewebcamp! I have a newbie question about IndieAuth.
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tantek.com edited /video (+56) "/* Tantek */ no more u-photo hack in u-video posts" (view diff)
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snarfed hey GWG, just fyi your webmention handler is 502ing. e.g. https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1450056797&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyTgsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIkB0YWc6ZmFjZWJvb2suY29tLDIwMTM6OTQ0MzA5MjAyMzI0Mjg4X2xpa2VkX2J5XzEwMTUxOTg3NDE5NzM1MTYzDA
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snarfed kousu_xmpp: shoot?
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snarfed er, shoot!
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kousu_xmpp If IndieAuth.com can get auth from a bunch of providers, what's the motivation for sticking a web page in the middle?
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KartikPrabhu kousu_xmpp: welcome
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KartikPrabhu kousu_xmpp: which webpage?
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kousu_xmpp The Web Sign In page
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kousu_xmpp with all the rel=me tags
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snarfed kousu_xmpp: indieauth gives consumers your domain (ie web page), not your account on a silo
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snarfed the indirection lets you switch silo providers invisibly without any consumers noticing or caring
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kousu_xmpp I found python-social-auth for Flask, which lets me consume a bunch of identity servers, but it's a nuisance to set up each OAuth backend. At first glance, IndieAuth sort of looks like I could use it instead of PSA, except it forces all of my subscribers to have a website and put up their Web Sign In links.
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snarfed kousu_xmpp: true. if you want to accept silo logins directly, without web pages in the middle, indieauth isn't for you
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snarfed you're on python, so you might be interested in https://oauth-dropins.appspot.com/
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snarfed i'm guessing python-social-auth is basically the same thing
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rhiaro Dreamhost sponsoring Known... led me to believe there would be a one-click install for Known in the Dreamhost control panel... but there isn't... did I just misunderstand this whole deal?
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snarfed kousu_xmpp: honestly setting up the oauth apps for each silo is way way less work than actually writing the code for each api. python-social-auth has done the vast majority of the work for you :P
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kousu_xmpp By the way, I am searching for ways to dump silos. I was excitedly explaining some ideas along those lines and a friend just pointed me at you. I feel kindred to your ideas.
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kousu_xmpp snarfed: that's probably true, but it's still too much for me to try to talk my friends into migrating
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GWG Intermittently
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snarfed glad you found us kousu_xmpp!
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GWG snarfed: I'll narrow it down.
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GWG kousu_xmpp: It isn't dump so much as live outside the walls.
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kousu_xmpp Ah, yeah, that's a good way to explain it. I want to jump Facebook but I hate that doing that also makes me a pariah from most things in my social world
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GWG kousu_xmpp: You effectively move from living in a gated community to just visiting
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snarfed exactly
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snarfed kousu_xmpp: it's not either or! most of us still fully interact on the silos. see https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE and https://indiewebcamp.com/backfeed
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rhiaro ...also did hosted known sites disappear?
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kousu_xmpp I saw the backfeed page. It seems ..hard in general.
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kousu_xmpp I am glad there are people who have the stomach for that, I guess
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rhiaro never mind, found new hosted site, just the button seems to have disappeared from the homepage..
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[snarfed] kousu_xmpp: most people use <https://brid.gy for backfeed, it does most of the hard work for you
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GWG As a result of hard work done by snarfed and kylewm
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[snarfed] POSSE too. also <https://silo.pub/
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GWG snarfed, your thoughts on Bridgy Publish vs Silo.pub?
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[snarfed] GWG: <https://snarfed.org/2015-11-29_keep-bridgy-publish-dumb and <https://kylewm.com/2015/11/silo-pub-as-a-generic-micropub-to-silo-adapter :P
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kylewm even though I don't consider them competitors, still lol at that versus
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GWG kylewm: Working in the same space
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GWG snarfed, I think some mentions just got through
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kousu I am feeling somewhat overwhelmed. Will you tolerate me just picking your minds? what can I use to set up camp outside the walls right now?
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kousu are my options Tumblr and WordPress?
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kousu also, is there any way to do federated friends-locked posts?
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GWG kousu: I'm pro-WordPress, as that is what I run. But there are other options of course.
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KartikPrabhu what is projects?
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GWG kousu: Private posting isn't widely supported.
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Loqi These are projects you can use to get your site on the IndieWeb and improve your IndieWeb support https://indiewebcamp.com/projects
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KartikPrabhu GWG: you mean implemented
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[snarfed] kousu: check out known, it's probably the most mature indieweb-first CMS
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GWG KartikPrabhu: I will accept the correction.
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GWG But even among those who have implemented it, usage is minimal
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GWG kousu: If you decide on WordPress, I will volunteer my services as member of the WordPress Outreach Club
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kousu hah, thanks GWG :)
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GWG kousu: I have selfish motives
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GWG Every time someone tries to set up an Indieweb WordPress site, there are problems. I want to refine the process.
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kousu ah, that's noble of you, but also exactly the sort of thing I expect from WordPress and why I would avoid it if possible
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GWG I just think the documentation needs work.
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GWG WordPress is plugin based, and the plugins lack guidance.
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@MicropubInfo Flask-Micropub 0.2.4: This extension adds the ability to login to a Flask-based website using IndieAuth (https... https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Flask-Micropub/0.2.4&ct=ga&cd=CAIyHDNlNjg4ODQzODIxNzA0ZmU6Y28udWs6ZW46R0I&usg=AFQjCNFNM7abKGNABd4n4h8YVexIx0zAGg&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/676284959108104193)
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@DragosGeornoiu RT @kevinmarks: Homebrew Website Club is there for you #indieweb https://twitter.com/feross/status/676286366347427842 (twitter.com/_/status/676289825784397824)
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@kevinmarks Homebrew Website Club is there for you #indieweb https://twitter.com/feross/status/676286366347427842 (twitter.com/_/status/676288467282690048)
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tantek.com edited /video (+306) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Kyle Mahan" (view diff)
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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tantek and with Kyle's example we're up to three consumable uses of u-video
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tantek.com edited /post-type-discovery (+74) "video - has converged on 3 real world examples using u-video markup, incorporate before photo" (view diff)
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cweiske tantek, then http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/kdenlive-lower-third.htm would count as video post
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cweiske but the video there is just an example/demo
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cweiske I wouldn't count it as video post
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tantek it could, but it's clearly structured as an article
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cweiske so the algo is only used for pages without post type markup?
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tantek not sure, it has some existing uses, could be used for more
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tantek nonetheless - not sure why you said "then ... would count" - as that permalink lacks any u-video
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cweiske your algorithm only talks about video tags
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tantek no, properties
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cweiske ah
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cweiske sorry
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tantek but you're right. video tags would lead to false positives.
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tantek it's worth capturing that
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KartikPrabhu tantek: do you think u-video is appropriate on iframe embeds? e.g.: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/like-uncanny-valley
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tantek I don't
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tantek because it's not your video
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tantek and you have no video file to point to
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tantek u-video is for the actual video file, not a script that does something to do something, nor an iframe that loads something to load something
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KartikPrabhu gotcha!
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[kevinmarks] |Unmung.com generates video tags with u-video from video podcasts
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tantek but it links directly to the video files
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I do think your reasoning makes sense.
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[kevinmarks] I need to go back and get my boys' video blog posts marked up
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tantek.com edited /post-type-discovery (+395) "/* FAQ */ Is a video tag sufficient. No." (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /video (+426) "/* QA/FAQ */ FAQ. Is an embed a video post? No." (view diff)
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tantek cweiske++ appreciate the article with a primary video (but not video post). helps subsantiate the FAQ with a real world example.
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Loqi cweiske has 39 karma
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I would object to this wording "Also, video posts should be your video, something you recorded, or animated yourself." in the case of a response-context. If I reply to a video post I would like to have a h-cite>u-video in the reply-context
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KartikPrabhu granted I have no examples but I am thinking of vimeo.youtube response contexts
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tantek which use iframes, not direct video links
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes. I am looking at the vimeo api to see if I can get to the video url.
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tantek I don't understand your objection. It's worded about "video posts" and you're talking about a "reply"
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tantek also why I worded it as a *should*
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KartikPrabhu hmmm
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KartikPrabhu fair enough.
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cweiske KartikPrabhu, youtube-dl gives it to you
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KartikPrabhu cweiske: thanks for the heads up on that
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@leitmedium Puh, wieder mal technische Hausaufgaben. Mein Blog hat so halbe Indieweb-Unterstützung. https://twitter.com/diplix/status/676284826060738560 (twitter.com/_/status/676321048724430848)
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@silvioporcellan RT @t: #IndieWebCamp SF this Thursday @MozSF! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/SF Still spots left! Get a ticket: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/indie-web-hack-day-tickets-19720085306 (ttk.me t4eU2) (twitter.com/_/status/676399757934379008)
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GWG https://wordpress.org/support/topic/using-this-plugin-for-custom-post-pull?replies=1#post-7777776
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GWG Trying to figure out how to answer this
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@WordPressTTT New #WPorgSupport > https://wordpress.org/support/topic/using-this-plugin-for-custom-post-pull#post-7777776 > clik2world on "[Plugin: Indieweb Post Kinds] using this plugin for custom post pull" (twitter.com/_/status/676402682429644803)
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petermolnar GWG I replied
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@WordPressTTT New #WPorgSupport > https://wordpress.org/support/topic/using-this-plugin-for-custom-post-pull#post-7778043 > petermolnar on "[Plugin: Indieweb Post Kinds] using this plugin for custom post pull" (twitter.com/_/status/676414046304882688)
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[shaners] What is recipe?
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Loqi recipe is special kind of post, that typically has a name, like articles do, a list of ingredients, and a list of instructions for making something, usually food or drink https://indiewebcamp.com/recipe
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[shaners] What is h-recipe?
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Loqi h-recipe is a microformat for marking up recipes https://indiewebcamp.com/h-recipe
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aaronpk good morning
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aaronpk whee all my linode servers rebooted overnight for maintenance
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bret Wee
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bret (Filling in for Loqi)
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek what is linode?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/Linode
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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tantek in following on the /video post and poster image discussion yesterday, I've come up with what I think is a good (hopefully easy to remember, hard to false positive) start to a plain text shorthand for a video with fallback hyperlink, optionally with poster image.
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aaronpk actually only 2 of my servers rebooted. which means more reboots tomorrow night
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tantek.com edited /Linode (+37) "fix dfn, see also" (view diff)
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aaronpk 1 day 17 hours until Loqi goes offline soon while some more Linode servers reboot
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 12/16 1:37am (#5779)
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veganstraightedge.com edited /recipe (+571) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: why are they rebooting? did you put them on a schedule or does Linode do that for you?
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aaronpk There is a security vulnerability in the underlying OS and they are doing mandatory reboots for everything.
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aaronpk http://status.linode.com/incidents/ngql6k6dm420
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tantek.com edited /Linode (+440) "Security auto-updates reboots with citations" (view diff)
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tantek video with hyperlink and/or poster plaintext syntax brainstorming: http://tantek.pbworks.com/w/page/59905776/Markdown#Videowithhyperlink
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veganstraightedge.com edited /recipe (+332) "/* IndieWeb Examples (not h-recipe) */" (view diff)
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tantek shaners, I'm curious about why you decided to use the poster image explicitly also as a fallback img (instead of making a separate poster vs. fallback) on videos.
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[shaners] Because I don't have a separate image to use a fallback.
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[shaners] And I'm iOS only for the foreseeable future and can't easily do those tasks. :confused:
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tantek and is the value you get from having a fallback worth duplicating the image URL then?
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[shaners] Dunno.
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tantek what tasks?
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tantek I'm considering the same question and was curious about your reasoning.
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tantek I'm wondering what browsers today either 1) don't show video and thus would show the fallback image, or 2) have a user option to turn off videos, and would thus show the fallback image (presumably instead of the poster of a video which can't be played).
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aaronpk don't forget about "browsers" such as readers
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tantek sure, though in their case, they either support e-content, or if they only do plain text the presence/absence of an image makes no difference to them.
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tantek.com edited /recipe (+21) "/* IndieWeb Examples (not h-recipe) */ subhead Shane Becker" (view diff)
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[shaners] Tasks: create a different image for each video (or even just one image to replace the all), upload to my asset host on S3, change access permissions on uploaded files, update all video posts.
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[shaners] (Oops. Thanks for adding my subhead, T.)
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tantek got it
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[shaners] Tantek do you get iMessages at your email address? Or did you quit iMessage altogether now?
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tantek iMessages fallback to email from non-apple devices
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tantek from Apple devices I have seen different failure modes
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tantek from quiet, to "not delivered"
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tantek still trying to work it out, in the mean time, I deprioritized iMessage and FaceTime on my /contact page
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[shaners] <@U03QR2B3P: how's your rewrite launch looking?
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tantek I'm guessing that @U03QR2B3P was supposed to be aaronpk?
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tantek shaners, you're a fan of markdown right?
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aaronpk weird, wonder why the bridge didn't translate that one.
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aaronpk it's going! I'm currently in the middle of webmention sending, by breaking that out into a new service
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[shaners] Tantek. Yes. I like markdown. Though, it's certainly not perfect.
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hat428 greets
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tantek shaners, then I'd definitely appreciate your analysis and feedback on tantek.com/w//Markdown
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[shaners] <@U03QR2B3P: I just have a couple slugging bugs to get fixed before I can flip the switch from bubble gum and Popsicle sticks codebase to Homesteading proper.
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[shaners] <https://github.com/homesteading/homesteading-server-rails/milestones/MVP
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tantek welcome hat428!
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aaronpk nice!
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[shaners] Tantek I'll take a look. How would you like me to give you notes? In this channel?
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tantek sure that would be welcome, as I do intend it as a plain text authoring replacement for markdown
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tantek that anyone could use to more easily / quickly write posts (of many types)
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[shaners] Come up with a name for it yet?
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kylewm !tell aaronpk we talked briefly about micropub syndication targets advertising an hcard (to define their own icon/label). what do you think of this one https://silo.pub/facebook.com/10101523441547849
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[aaronpk] let's see if this works. <@U03QR2B3P vs <@U03QR2B3P: ...
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tantek aaronpk nope
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tantek shaners, I've tried several name ideas and they all so far are already used to mean other things
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kylewm I like Markdown because it's "good enough" and widely available
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bear "pubnotes" because it's simple enough to use in a pub on your phone
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tantek kylewm we differ on "good enough"
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KartikPrabhu i don't like Markdown because I never remember the syntax for things
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tantek that's a key reason I don't either. e.g. link and image syntax is totally borken in markdown
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KartikPrabhu well, i don't think it is broken. It works if you remember it, but i just find writing plain HTML much easier
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tantek kylewm, KartikPrabhu all of these problems make markdown *not* "good enough" IMO: tantek.com/w/Markdown#Problemssummary
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kylewm it's only difficult to remember for me when I'm switch back and forth with mediawiki :)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: my perspective is from the plain text side, Markdown's syntax fails to read as plain text, and thus fails it's #1 design criteria
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tantek s/it's/its
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Loqi tantek meant to say: KartikPrabhu: my perspective is from the plain text side, Markdown's syntax fails to read as plain text, and thus fails its #1 design criteria
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bear except for the link syntax, markdown IMO comes closer to plain text then most of the wiki formats out there
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tantek bear - nah, the image embedding is so not plain text either
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aaronpk i always write a preprocessor before I hand off the text to the markdown parser so that I can add back mediawiki link syntax
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tantek nor are code blocks
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bear but I do look forward to enhancments
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tantek and markdown always does false positives when I type what I think is normal plain text into github comments
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bear ah, I was lumping image into links -- and it gets even worse for other embed types
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tantek which is far worse
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tantek right, mediawiki does not pretend to be plain text friendly, so that's fine
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tantek whereas markdown is kind of a false promise
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bear yep, once you get a beta version going, the first thing i'll do is write a conversion service for myself
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bear text, mardown, tantektext, mediawiki
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tantek bear - I've been slowly adding support to cassis.js auto_link
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bear s/mardown/markdown/
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Loqi bear meant to say: text, markdown, tantektext, mediawiki
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aaronpk kylewm: I would want the syndication target name to also include the network, so I would expect to see something like "Kyle Mahan on Facebook"
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aaronpk or maybe that should be a different property
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tantek bear, shaners, I have found *one* candidate name that seems to not have any meaningful collisions
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tantek tmark
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bear I was wondering about ttext or tmark
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bear because t == text
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tantek right
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tantek emphasizes the friendliness to text
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tantek whereas "down" just sounds like a downer :P
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bear textmark is nice but a shade too close to textmate
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tantek textmark is also heavily overloaded already (see google search)
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bear oh, i'm not bothering my name suggestions with the hinderance of facts right now, i'm in too good of a mood this morning ;)
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tantek bear :)
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bear oh, linode reboots (just now reading backscroll) -- now i'm really glad we have multiple indieauth servers
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tantek now that the "stuff" season is upon us, what services (or indie web software) does everyone use to keep track of their "stuff"
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tantek whether books, cds, dvds, games, toys etc.
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tantek says as he looks at a couple of boxes of stuff to sell/donate.
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bear the receipt box as I am gifting to goodwill most things I unbox
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bear "well that has been in a box for 6 months" == "goodwill"
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aaronpk heh I should use 6 months as my criteria. I think I'm at 2 years or so right now.
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tantek bear, the reason I ask is I wonder if an indieweb solution to this would encourage more swapping / infinite loaning
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bear ah - I was wondering
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hat428 I usually keep stuff until I move
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tantek I've definitely had stuff set aside where when I've had guests/visitors they've been very happy to get to "borrow" stuff (without expectation of any particular return time)
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tantek the thinking is that if I published that to a small set of friends, then maybe they could see things they would really like and request / receive them
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tantek I like the idea of things I bought going to a specific good home
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tantek instead of who knows if it will end up anywhere with good will etc.
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tantek especially when you have eclectic things
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aaronpk me too. I would much rather give things to friends even more than selling them on craigslist.
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tantek right. that.
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tantek so we should be able to solve this right?
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tantek I feel like it begins by having a system to just track your own stuff yourself
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tantek and then you publish a subset of that, the subset you wouldn't mind just giving to friends
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bear all it should really need is a tag so that it can be collected on a /share or /stuff page
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tantek as a design constraint (to make tracking simpler/easier), I want to be clear this is for non-perishable stuff
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tantek hence the examples of books, cds, dvds, games, toys etc.
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bear each item would be an h-entry with the content of the entry any desired microformat to describe the item
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tantek bear, I suppose h-entry is usable for that but feels like overkill for what is just a list
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aaronpk I like this plan. I have a few boxes of things I need to sort through.
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tantek also, the purchase or sale/giving/donation would make more sense as dated h-entrys
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bear true, but a list would not be able to be rsvp'd to show it's borrrowed status :)
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tantek I'm wondering more about "inventory"
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bear or micropub "flagged" in some way
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tantek obviously related: wishlists
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tantek does anyone here publish wishlists on their own site?
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tantek (instead of a silo like Amazon)
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bear I have never caught on to the idea of a wishlist, I tend to be a "buy it if I need it" kinda person
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tantek bear, wishlists are useful for both procastinating buying things, and clustering them for later purchases
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bear ah, one of these days i'll be able to plan that far ahead ;)
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tantek aaronpk: is there a HWC in Portland this week?
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tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-16-homebrew-website-club#Where
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tantek !tell adactio is there a HWC in Brighton this week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-16-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek !tell Jeena is there a HWC in Göteborg this week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-16-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "next" (view diff)
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adactio tantek: There is a HWC in Brighton this week (I need to update the wiki).
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 12/2 at 12:12pm: yes https://adactio.com/notes/9903 - kevinmarks replied to it here http://known.kevinmarks.com/2015/we-have-one-in-san-francisco-tonight and webmentioned from Known, from mention-tech, and the form on your permalink. comment didn't show up. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-02/line/1449087160622
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Loqi adactio: aaronpk left you a message on 12/2 at 12:13pm: I just fixed the twitter issue, looks like they updated the list of user agents they redirect to mobile http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-02/line/1449087201238
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message 1 minute ago: is there a HWC in Brighton this week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-16-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-14/line/1450115534493
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[shaners] Tantek: if you go down the path of researching existing / past attempts at "giving stuff to friends instead of the curb/goodwill/Craigslist" apps/sites, checkout:
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[shaners] - NeighborGoods (@mickipedia, @thedaniel)
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[shaners] - Yerdle (@tashian et al)
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tantek indeed, I remember NeighborGoods - that was a bit broader scope than I'm thinking
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tantek but I do appreciate the prior examples!
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[shaners] No doubt. Put worth documenting, right?! :wink:
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tantek aaronpk, I'm optimistically assuming we're having a HWC Portland this week :)
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tantek shaners, yes, if we can come up with some minimal conceptual way to start thinking about it
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tantek beyond the phrasal description :)
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[shaners] I guess for the "stuff inventory with minor emphasis on sharing with friends" app: see also Delicious Library.
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tantek what is Delicious Library?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Delicious Library" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/109p
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aaronpk I have wishlists on amazon but I mostly use them as private lists to collect related items
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+76) "brighton, portland, sf" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: should we change the header of the site?
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tantek (no more RSVPing for IWC SF)
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[shaners] DL was originally just for "media" things, then they expanded to anything things. All backed by Amazon inventory.
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aaronpk right now it just pulls from /next-iwc
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tantek oh right!
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aaronpk if there is no next-iwc it will be the default grey banner
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aaronpk s/no next-iwc/no h-event on the next-iwc page/
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Loqi aaronpk meant to say: if there is no h-event on the next-iwc page it will be the default grey banner
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tantek got it
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tantek.com edited /next-iwc (+1) "next - planning" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (-47) "comment out Planned until we have another" (view diff)
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hat428 Hey is it just me or does G+ no longer work with Web Sign-In?
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "next iwc is planning for 2016" (view diff)
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[shaners] Tantek: <https://delicious-monster.com (veeeeery skeumorohic)
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aaronpk hat428: it's not just you. they changed something recently and I haven't figured out how to handle it yet.
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tantek Delicious Library is https://delicious-monster.com, an application for keeping inventory of your stuff with minor emphasis on sharing with friends. It was originally just for "media" things, then they expanded to anything things. All backed by Amazon inventory.
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loqi.me created /Delicious_Library (+288) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-14/line/1450115859407 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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hat428 Yea they have a "New google+" and the links no longer have rel="me" in them
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tantek.com edited /Events (+0) "move HWC Edi to past" (view diff)
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hat428 took me a bit to determine since I still use the old G+
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tantek.com edited /Events (+0) "/* Upcoming */ Brighton is on for this week" (view diff)
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[shaners] Tantek: I have read your markdown thoughts. I've got some feedbacks that I want to percolate before sending.
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tantek percolation++
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Loqi percolation has 1 karma
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aaronpk speaking of percolation, time for more coffee
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tantek shaners, I figured you'd have some good critical thinking on this :)
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[shaners] In the meantime, I have a challenge for you to test your hypothesis. And exercise some corners and edges that you don't mention in your write up.
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tantek shaners - I am - most of what I've written up I'm doing live on my site, either in just plain text, or plain text that auto-converts to markup
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[shaners] The challenge for you is to convert the Homesteading markdown readme to <your thing>.
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[shaners]
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tantek I am interested in corners and edges
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[shaners] >
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tantek I'm more likely to take on the challenge of writing whole blog posts myself using "tmark"
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[shaners] >
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tantek it would be a better usability test to see how it felt to you to convert your readme - but I'm not asking that (yet) of course
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tantek I despise having to read markdown "source" so I wouldn't be a good converter test.
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[shaners] I wouldn't is the thing. It's your jam.
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tantek the very fact that one can tell if something is markdown *source* is a key "hey this is obvious" problem with markdown
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tantek markdown is not plain text enough
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[shaners] Then don't read the source. Read the html.
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[shaners] Or just look at the webpage view and write it up from there
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+1) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ no more EDI HWC for the year, not sure about Göteborg yet" (view diff)
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tantek yeah - comparing the output would make more sense
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tantek hence why I'm likely to try writing a whole article with it
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tantek so far I'm very happy with the image and video embedding / linking
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tantek (hence those post types)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+361) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ plural so listing 12-30 too" (view diff)
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tantek !tell adactio will there be a HWC Brighton 2015-12-30? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-30-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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[shaners] I created a templating language a few years ago to address *some* of the same issues you originally raised way back when. Mine was not aiming to be plaintext though.
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[shaners] Needless to say, my usage of it didn't last long. And I've basically abandoned it. Having gone back to full HTML + erb (similarish to PHP views).
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[shaners] >
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tantek templating is a whole different problem
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[shaners] Yep
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tantek I'm likely to solve it with coming up with a pure HTML way of doing templates
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tantek I really dislike all the <% <$ <# whatever extra template markup
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tantek s/markup/syntax
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Loqi tantek meant to say: I really dislike all the <% <$ <# whatever extra template syntax
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[shaners] But there was trying to do what you were too around using #id.class etc. which you've since dropped.
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[shaners] Dang's syntax is basically this:
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[shaners] <tag content tag>
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[shaners] <tag#id.class[attr=value] content tag>
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tantek what is Dang?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Dang" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/109q
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[shaners] <tag <childtag content childtag> tag>
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tantek shaners, you can answer Loqi by saying "Dang is (your description here)"
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Loqi :)
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[shaners] (I'm typing it now)
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[shaners] Dang is <https://github.com/veganstraightedge/dang, a templating language created by {{veganstraightedge}} with the design goal of being somewhere between HAML and ERB, using angle brackets and CSS syntax.
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loqi.me created /Dang (+232) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-14/line/1450117046581 and dfn added by [shaners]" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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snarfed huh, facebook supports oembed now. https://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/2015/12/14/embedded-video-api-oembed/
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veganstraightedge.com edited /Dang (+65) "No one uses it" (view diff)
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aaronpk whoa
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aaronpk "You can use the oEmbed standard for embedding Facebook posts and videos into your website." https://developers.facebook.com/docs/plugins/oembed-endpoints
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/plugins/oembed-endpoints (from http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2015/12/14/1/facebook-oembed) http://news.indiewebcamp.com/en/developers.facebook.com/docs/plugins/oembed-endpoints
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kylewm [shaners]: I always liked this Dang t-shirt https://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=WIGU-DANG&Category_Code=003
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[shaners] Nice
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kylewm aaronpk: re: "Kyle Mahan on Facebook", that's what i was wondering too (and presumably the icon should be a FB icon, not my avatar)
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kylewm it seems like it's not quite an h-card that we want
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aaronpk it's an h-card that describes the service, not the person
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ben_thatmustbeme woohoo
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme: tantek left you a message 21 hours, 43 minutes ago: check out how shaners marks up his video posts with <video><source>, and consider doing the same. right now your video posts are not expressing the u-video URL since it is not on the same element as the URL: https://indiewebcamp.com/video#Ben_Roberts http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-13/line/1450039500517
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ben_thatmustbeme emoji recognizer working... or at least looks to be working quite well
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: mind fixing your u-video markup?
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[shaners] Kylewm The code to run the parser is : <http://Dang.it|Dang.it(string)
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[shaners] :)
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tantek shaners, bear re: the "lists of stuff", for now I just keep static HTML pages with <li> (from years of habits of doing so)
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[shaners] I mostly just stopped keeping track of my stuff because I have so little of it anymore.
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[shaners] I live in 80 square feet of van after all.
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tantek that should make it easier right?
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tantek (less stuff, less tracking)
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek, i really dislike the idea of putting <video> on all source tags, it really should be able to support alternate video encodings
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tantek huh?
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ben_thatmustbeme perhaps it should be e-video ... or really a containing span with e-video
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: pretty sure I discovered that multiple encodings are no longer needed
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tantek so I'm going to pushback on that since keeping the simple case as simple as possible is more important
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ben_thatmustbeme its important to keep it simple, but umm, i'm on firefox and looking at http://veganstraightedge.com/videos and seeing errors about it not supported
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ben_thatmustbeme so how is multiple encodings not needed?
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: because newer posts
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tantek shane's videos are old
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tantek > 2 yrs old
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tantek if you publish video *today* you can do so with .mp4 that works cross browser
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tantek I know this, because I just did it
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aaronpk should really go re-encode all his videos from <2005
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tantek ^^^ and that's exactly how people are going to deal with it
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tantek easier to re-encode/upload/replace a bunch of video files
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ben_thatmustbeme except you don't always get a choice of encoding on video... mobilepub is stuck with whatever the phone decides to output
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tantek than to maintain a bunch of multi-encoding markup
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aaronpk hopefully i still have something that can read .wmv files :-/
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tantek lol
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ben_thatmustbeme mplayer reads wmv i think
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ben_thatmustbeme you should be able to reencode with it
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aaronpk i'm hoping ffmpeg can just deal with it
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ben_thatmustbeme it should
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tantek " stuck with whatever the phone decides to output" <-- then you still have only one encoding anyway
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Loqi +1
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: I think you're worrying about a theoretical future expansion of legacy uploading/encodings
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm worried about CURRENT support
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tantek how? both publishing scenarios you provided had only one encoding
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tantek therefore the markup can be kept simple
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tantek no one who publishes old videos is bothering with publishing multiple encodings (including you)
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tantek why not fix your actual markup now and procrastinate worrying about multiple encodings until you care enough to publish them?
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ben_thatmustbeme hmmm
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ben_thatmustbeme i would think it really should support it, but you are correct, until there is a documented need for it, i suppose there is no point right now
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ben_thatmustbeme though i would not admit the need for such parsing will not be of possible need in the future... especially with multiple image files
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tantek yup - cross that bridge when we get to it
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tantek until then, let's stick with simple, minimal, existing publishing practice
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ben_thatmustbeme updated
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ben_thatmustbeme in other news WOOHOO single emoji recognizer works now
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ben_thatmustbeme i had to do some bitwise math in order to go from utf8->url encoded hex -> decimal value
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ben_thatmustbeme but it was the only reliable function i could find to do it
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ben_thatmustbeme petermolnar, aaronpk, it got even worse https://github.com/dissolve/single-emoji-recognizer/blob/master/src/emoji.php#L188
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ben_thatmustbeme lol
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aaronpk jeez
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ben_thatmustbeme need to put a bunch more tests in, especially for those multi-character emoji
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ben_thatmustbeme on a side note, i now know how utf8 encoding in binary works :P
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aaronparecki.com edited /video (+14) "/* Aaron Parecki */ fixed video markup" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /video (-172) "/* Ben Roberts */ fix markup" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /reacji (+208) "add Link to single emoji lib" (view diff)
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jeena.net edited /events/2015-12-16-homebrew-website-club (+52) "/* Where */ Göteborg" (view diff)
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Jeena !tell tantek no HWC in Gothenburg this week because most of the people don't have time because of preperation for Christmas, etc.
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Loqi Jeena: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 1 minute ago: is there a HWC in Göteborg this week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-16-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-14/line/1450115549109
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek got it
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tantek aaronpk? Portland HWC?
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GWG Afternoon
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tantek hmm - only two days away - kylewm, KevinMarks - could you help with inviting all the previous participants / usuals to Wednesday's HWC in SF? https://www.facebook.com/events/1684868325063872/
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www.leitmedium.de created /User:Www.leitmedium.de (+71) "Created page with "Hello, world. This is <a href="http://www.leitmedium.de">leitmedium</a>"" (view diff)
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tantek I figure this is the last HWC before people disappear for the holidays so ...
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tantek "Come share what you're styling, designing, or hacking up for holidays on your website!"
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tantek holiday themed event image contributions welcome! (for https://www.facebook.com/events/1684868325063872/ )
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eli.li edited /IRC_People (+68) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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eli.li created /User:Eli.li (+17) "Created page with "Howdy! [eli.li]"" (view diff)
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eli.li edited /User:Eli.li (+14) (view diff)
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kylewm hi eli_oat :)
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eli_oat Howdy!
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eli_oat I think I MAY have just registered in such a way that my name is now eli.li (my URL), instead of eli_oat...whoops!
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kylewm I think you did it correctly
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eli_oat oh — excellent! Thanks! :D
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eli.li edited /IRC_People (+3) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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eli_oat And now my timezone is listed correctly.
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kylewm !tell mattl your redirect for http://mattl.us/mattl-homepage.jpg is broken (redirecting to http://mat.tlmattl-homepage.jpg)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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mattl kylewm: ha. one sec
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mattl kylewm: fixed.
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kylewm woot
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tantek lots to talk / demo this week at HWC!
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tantek * person-tag progress since IWC
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tantek * /video posts! more of us publishing them, and convergence on markup
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idolstarastronomer.com edited /IPv6 (+208) "/* Why? */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - do we have any stats on # of new site logins via IndieAuth or on IndieWebCamp.com this year? vs. total?
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tantek kylewm - how did you use silo.pub to upload a video to Twitter? did you use a micropub client with silo.pub?
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tantek or feel free to expand upon this (even if what you did was a one-off, still helps to know how people have done it) https://indiewebcamp.com/video#How_to_POSSE
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tantek also, should I file a Bridgy feature request to publish video to Flickr, or are you already looking at that?
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kylewm tantek: I used curl to publish a video to Twitter via silo.pub
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idolstarastronomer.com edited /IPv6 (+93) "/* How */" (view diff)
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kylewm feel free to file a feature request for publishing videos to Flickr
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tantek will do
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tantek.com edited /video (+251) "/* How to POSSE */ #574: Bridgy Publish to Flickr: detect u-video and post video, kylewm used silo.pub with curl" (view diff)
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aaronpk interesting wiki login stats:
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aaronpk 2014: 590 unique logins, 2015: 586 unique logins
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aaronpk 2014: 471 of the 590 people who logged in were new that year
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aaronpk 2015: 448 of the 586 people were new that year
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aaronpk 2013: 196 out of 251 people were new that year
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tantek interesting that 2014->2015 was flat in terms of unique logins
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tantek (though we have half a month to go I don't expect a big change)
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aaronpk 2012: 115 of the 115 people were new that year ;-)
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tantek these sound like they could make an interesting chart
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aaronpk also interesting in that of the 471 new people last year, most of them did not log in again this year since there were 448 new people this year
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aaronpk here it is in chart form: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/695/23127424253_6143566eae_c.jpg
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tantek the numbers between 2014 and 2015 look reversed from above
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tantek or was above misstated?
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aaronpk oops I entered it wrong
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aaronpk typed 148 instead of 138 which threw everything off
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aaronpk fixed: https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5668/23645829442_6a2f4aaf93_c.jpg
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention (+13) "consistency" (view diff)
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tantek thanks aaronpk - worth embedding that on /IndieAuth ?
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aaronpk that's wiki logins specifically, so probably not
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tantek.com edited /2014-review (+68) "link to 2015-review" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2015-review (+342) "stub! ok let's do this" (view diff)
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tantek has anyone blogged about their IndieWeb 2015 Year in review yet?
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tantek e.g. what you've gotten working on your personal site this past year?
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tantek If so, add your post here! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-review#IndieWeb_Examples
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aaronpk mine is going to be so sad lol
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tantek what no.
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tantek you have to flip the switch before EoY!
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aaronpk basically all progress on my site halted in may when I started rewriting it
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aaronpk definitely have to flip the switch before the 31st. although that will still only get me to feature parity with my current site.
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tantek.com edited /Webmention (+130) "/* Extensions */ note extensions with implementations live on the web, interop" (view diff)
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tantek that's still huge (feature parity using delegated services building blocks!0
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention (+51) "add Drupal plugin" (view diff)
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aaronpk it will definitely be worth writing up but nothing like my 2014 review!
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aaronparecki.com moved /Webmention_Plugin to /Wordpress_Webmention_Plugin
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