#indiewebcamp 2016-04-19

2016-04-19 UTC
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@kevinmarks
SVG sparklines that embed the datapoints directly: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html thanks to @adactio, @sil and @EdwardTufte #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/722220598663847937)
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miklb
KevinMarks to clarify, I didn't participate this weekend. Someone else used a Jekyll theme I created. (though I am using it on my site currently to work out bugs)
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@blowery
RT @kevinmarks SVG sparklines that embed the datapoints directly: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html thanks to @adactio, @sil and @EdwardTufte #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/722223678080053249)
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KevinMarks
oh, oops
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KevinMarks
I couldn't read the screen in the webcast easily, so I was guessing a bit
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miklb
I didn't catch the persons name watching the video. The project is new and specific to IndieWeb, but I didn't create it during IWC
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@mshook
RT @kevinmarks SVG sparklines that embed the datapoints directly: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html thanks to @adactio, @sil and @EdwardTufte #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/722226817130766336)
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@fpc552
RT @kevinmarks SVG sparklines that embed the datapoints directly: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html thanks to @adactio, @sil and @EdwardTufte #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/722239769657372673)
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: that's pretty cool! I will play with that and see if I like that method better overall. I added spark lines to my home page on the last flight!
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aaronpk
my battery is dead now tho so I won't be able to launch it til tomorrow
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@BrianSJ3
RT @kevinmarks SVG sparklines that embed the datapoints directly: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html thanks to @adactio, @sil and @EdwardTufte #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/722246145750274048)
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@meter
RT @kevinmarks SVG sparklines that embed the datapoints directly: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html thanks to @adactio, @sil and @EdwardTufte #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/722247997929689089)
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KevinMarks
aaronpk: the same technique would work serverside too - I like the idea of the actual datapoints being in the file
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@abhimans
RT @kevinmarks SVG sparklines that embed the datapoints directly: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html thanks to @adactio, @sil and @EdwardTufte #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/722251159868547076)
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[dym_cx]
kevinmarks: why do you have `node_modules` in the repo? https://github.com/kevinmarks/kevin-marks.com
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[kevinmarks]
Cos I am lazy and haven't got round to making it properly static yet
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[kevinmarks]
And when I set up the repo ages ago I didn't get the node install right
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "Indie-config and local storage" https://unicyclic.com/mal/2016-04-19-Indie-config_and_local_storage
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[dym_cx]
kevinmarks: so, it's locally generated html which is added to the repo and served as a static?
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[dym_cx]
not sure you need a dynamic heroku instance for this usecase, AWS or even gh-pages would be plenty sufficient
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@ryoe_ok
RT @kevinmarks SVG sparklines that embed the datapoints directly: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html thanks to @adactio, @sil and @EdwardTufte #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/722270902772187137)
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[dym_cx]
Building Decentralized Applications for the Social Web: https://github.com/solid/solid-tutorial-intro/
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[dym_cx]
what is www2016
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "www2016" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10JH
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@jkphl
RT @egoexpress Had a great weekend at @indiewebcamp Nuremberg. Was a pleasure to meet all of you. Hope to get the stuff I demoed public soon. #iwc16
(twitter.com/_/status/722289322553163776)
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tantek.com
edited /2016/Nuremberg (+94) "/* Photos */ Flickr set"
(view diff)
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@pmonet
RT @kevinmarks SVG sparklines that embed the datapoints directly: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html thanks to @adactio, @sil and @EdwardTufte #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/722294686971367424)
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@hdeshmuk
RT @kevinmarks SVG sparklines that embed the datapoints directly: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html thanks to @adactio, @sil and @EdwardTufte #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/722299151111884800)
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[kevinmarks]
dym_cx: you're right - I originally thought I'd be doing server side stuff, but it is all static. I should move it to a storage bucket and dump the Heroku wrapper
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petermolnar
I have a new challenge for minimal publish UI: should be usable via lynx browser. Apparently, WordPress isn't.
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prtksxna
petermolnar: Does Quill work with lynx, seems minimal enough?
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petermolnar
in my case, I'm yet to automate enough steps to move away from the knobs and turns interface of WordPress, but I'm working on it
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petermolnar
but lynx appears to be a good test for truly minimal interfaces
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prtksxna
petermolnar: The interface running on a cheap Firefox OS phone might be a better 'real world' test
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prtksxna
I don't know a lot of people who run lynx on a regular basis, its funny that I can still think of 2 :P
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prtksxna
That is 1 more than the number of people I know running FFOS :P
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petermolnar
so it is more real life, see? :D
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prtksxna
petermolnar: ^_^
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bjoern.stierand.org
edited /2016/Nuremberg/Demos (+390) "/* Björn Stierand */ Updated demo contents"
(view diff)
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harryreeder.co.uk
created /events/2016-04-18-homebrew-website-club (+2043) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> = <span class="p-name summary">Homebrew Website Club Meetup</span> = == Details == '''Homebrew Website Club Edinburgh''' === When === <span class=...""
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GWG
petermolnar, you can create your own post ui
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petermolnar
I know, but I need much more autodetection on my content before that
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GWG
Autodetection?
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kylewm
guessing getting past indieauth is the trickier part for lynx
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petermolnar
an example of what I have now: if there is a featured image and the image has x EXIF data, fill that data as post content|tags|etc.
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petermolnar
I need more of these, much more
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petermolnar
kylewm that might be true
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GWG
petermolnar, also something that I was working on.
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GWG
I built some of that. Might be able to expand
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kylewm
So I got almost all the way in lynx; clicking "Post" to post the note itself at the end didn't work for some reason
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kylewm
but the UI looks pretty decent
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petermolnar
::thumbsup::
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prtksxna
kylewm: I'd love to see a screenshot of that :)
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aaronpk
ironically, Quill uses JS to post
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aaronpk
because i want to be able to show error messages and stuff inline and it was easier that way
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petermolnar
aaronpk ok, js, but why no fallback to plain send form?
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GWG
Has anyone simulated a mention flood?
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GWG
I am still trying to solve the problem of abuse. At least mentally trying.
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aaronpk
petermolnar: no reason
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aaronpk
GWG: bridgy's invitation webmentions are a legitimate webmention flood
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tantek
GWG, one person's problem is another person's popularity
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tantek
GWG, go see how the UX of Twitter etc. handles showing likes, reposts, comments on celebrity accounts
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GWG
I suppose
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GWG
I wanted to test load handling though.
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GWG
Not UX
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tantek
perhaps consider solving the UX problem first, and then using what you learn from that to figure out backend load handling etc.
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aaronpk
I mentioned I didn't end up working on my home page design during IWC, so I decided to work on it on the plane!
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aaronpk
here's what it looks like on my test copy. I think I'm going to push it live today https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-04-19-09-27-50.png
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aaronpk
feedback is welcome!
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kylewm
needs more sparklines :P
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aaronpk
summary: the top of the list of posts on my home page is now a little "bio" section. it includes a cover photo, my profile photo and bio, and 4 sparklines from different kinds of posts. the bio is not in the footer on the home page, but all other pages have the bio section in the footer like it is currently.
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kylewm
like, sleep and travel! but for sleep it couldn't just be the frequency of the posts
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aaronpk
i could show a tiny bar chart of hours slept per night
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tantek
nice design aaronpk !
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tantek
though I would challenge you to stack the sparklines vertically, like off to the right side of your bio
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aaronpk
interesting
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tantek
since the sparklines all share the same x-axis start/finish/units it makes more sense to stack them to show that relationship
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aaronpk
true. they do all share the same y-axis now tho.
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tantek
but that only makes sense when they overlap
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tantek
and time is more of a primary shared axis than number
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aaronpk
I will see if I can make that work
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tantek
the whole point of a sparkline is it's supposed to be on the same LINE as the text
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aaronpk
the challenge I always have with making more horizontal sections on the same row is how to deal with narrow screens
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tantek
sparklines are not supposed to have to be very wide either
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tantek
all on one line each
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tantek
___/\ 191 Articles
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tantek
_/\/\ 2218 Bookmarks
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tantek
|/\_/ 2581 Notes
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aaronpk
lol ascii art sparklines!
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tantek
__/\/ 507 Posts
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tantek
there you go ;)
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tantek
that's the point! they're supposed to be interchangeable with text
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aaronpk
i'll try moving that into the bio section. but I do like the little 4-column section they're in now, so I wonder if I can do something else with that section
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tantek
they take up way too much space than what sparklines should
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tantek
in their own 4-column section
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aaronpk
like show a little sleep chart (not a sparkline, an actual bar chart), and then maybe show the next event, next ___?
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tantek
yes that makes more sense
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tantek
like the way Jeena showed most recent post of each type
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aaronpk
at the very least, adding that cover photo and bio makes it look way more like a home page, and now my current design looks silly
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tantek
most recent photo would add a nice visual element
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tantek
most recent sleep, eat/drink, photo, next event
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tantek
there's four for you, and they vaguely follow a time order too ;)
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aaronpk
speaking of events, we totally overlooked something when we were discussing the design in boston!
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tantek
they also become nav links for each of those different streams
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aaronpk
what's missing from this page? https://aaronparecki.com/events
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tantek
maps? rsvps? responses counts?
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aaronpk
i'll give you a hint, it's more apparent here: https://aaronparecki.com/events?before=20140617T173000-0700
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tantek
author per post?
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aaronpk
the year!
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aaronpk
there's no way to tell what year those events are happening lol
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KevinMarks
you can do barchart sparklines with unicode ▁█▅▂▉▄▁
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[dym_cx]
you came full circle http://trivelop.de/sparkr/
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KevinMarks
the SVG ones are true sparklines though
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[dym_cx]
why tufte has white images on such light yellow bg? it hurts
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KevinMarks
really? that's a style I use too eg http://svgur.com/
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KevinMarks
how does it hurt?
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[dym_cx]
that super-light orange? kinda stingy as well, esp w/o much of "white" space in between comments
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[dym_cx]
the problem in both cases: those are two low contrast colors, so eyes have to concentrate way harder than it needed and it steers away from the content, reading the text in particular
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KevinMarks
low contrast in what sense? black text on the light colours is good contrast. You men the contrast between the white and the yellow?
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[dym_cx]
yes, i mean 2 bg colors
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KevinMarks
I keyline them in grey on svgur.com
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[dym_cx]
just making both the same hue (shades of gray, normally) will make everything better
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[dym_cx]
i mean the comment section
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[dym_cx]
pics with grey borded are fine
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[dym_cx]
s/borded/border/
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Loqi
[dym_cx] meant to say: pics with grey border are fine
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KevinMarks
so you're getting beating from the lines between the comments?
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KevinMarks
hm, they're differnt colours onmy 2 screens
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KevinMarks
so is the comment contrast on svgur.com worse fro you than on the bottom of http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html
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Loqi
SVG Sparklines 2016-04-18
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Loqi
[Chris Aldrich] IndieWebCamp Los Angeles 2016 Announced for November 4-6
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tommorris
oh, it is as LA not Los Angeles
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tommorris
homepage needs updating.
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tommorris
is on it
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tommorris.org
edited /Main_Page (+54) "/* More IndieWebCamps */ adding IWC 2016 LA"
(view diff)
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[dym_cx]
kevinmarks: your site has white (#fff) bg – so it's ok
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[dym_cx]
svgur has whitesmoke (#f5f5f5), which is ok for the pics part, but makes the comment section look unappealing. making comments-bg white or any shade of grey would fix it
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[dym_cx]
the tufte page would benefit from simple img-borders http://output.jsbin.com/rafiweqito just like you have on svgur
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KevinMarks
those are a bit too strong for me, the 1px solid lightgrey I use is nicer
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KevinMarks
Tufte should use this theme on his site: https://edwardtufte.github.io/tufte-css/
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kylewm
so aaronpk, your event URLs are based on the event start date instead of the published date ... are you happy with that scheme?
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kylewm
since Known's slugs are unique identifiers, I was sort of thinking about including the date in the slug
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kylewm
but then /2016/04/indieweb-summit-2016-06-04 would be incredibly confusing
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kylewm
/2016/06/indieweb-summit-2016-06-04 would be less confusing but a little redundant
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aaronpk
Yes I intentionally use the date of the event in the URL
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aaronpk
that is also the date that's used to sort them in lists
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tantek
yup - I proposed that when I started working on event posts for my own site
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tantek
(was always annoyed when I saw event permalinks elsewhere with date information in the URL that was NOT when the event was - hugely misleading from a UX point of view)
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kylewm
yeah it is really misleading
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tantek
it's a pet peeve argument I have with W3C folks all the time, as many of their URLs have years in them very different from what they're about
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tantek
there's been some improvement in the past few years though
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aaronpk
That always confused me about w3c URLs. There are still some new pages created that have like 2004 in the URL
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emmahodge.org
created /Template:Emma (+13) "Created page with "emmahodge.org""
(view diff)
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tantek
I asked Tim about this once and he said the URL is supposed to be opaque, not supposed to derive meaning from it, and I pointed out that humans can't help but derive meaning from things
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aaronpk
Huh yeah
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aaronpk
even if URLs were always long random hashes, people would still find words in the characters of the hash
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emmahodge.org
edited /Planning (+68) "/* New York City 2 */"
(view diff)
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tantek
emmahodge++ multiple co-organizers for IWC NYC2!!! Awesome! cc: GWG
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Loqi
emmahodge has 1 karma
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kylewm
reminds me of buzzfeed's "social urls": http://digiday.com/publishers/lol-wut/
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tantek
what is a social URL?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "social URL" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10JJ
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tommorris
aaronpk: see youtube comments. "OMG the video ID has 69 in it, naughty!"
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aaronpk
srsly?
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tommorris
social URL is just buzzfeed editors having fun with URL choice.
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loqi.me
created /social_URL (+90) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-19/line/1461089870804 and dfn added by tommorris"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
I try not to read YouTube comments :-P
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kylewm
it's intereesting bc they are optimized for humans not to include a bunch of search keywords
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tantek
that's not quite a snarkinition or a grumpinition, hmm
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miklb
tantek I don't know if emmahodge comes around IRC much, but she may be interested in my Jekyll project. She was a source of inspiration for creating it. Someone without a web presence who wants to use GitHub pages and IndieWeb
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tantek
oh neat - yeah - she is using github pages with her domain emmahodge.org
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kylewm
although I suspect Buzzfeed's URLs have gotten more clickbaity and less clever in the last two years
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tantek
what is clickbaity?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "clickbaity" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10JK
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tantek
what is Buzzfeed?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Buzzfeed" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10JL
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aaronpk
those sound like things for /url-design
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kylewm
actually on casual inspection of the homepage, they are still prtty good. /face-stop for an article about face swaps that have gone too far :P
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KevinMarks
the polyline sparklines are simple enough that you could almost write them by hand inline
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: does your version let you specify the max value of the y-axis?
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aaronpk
i wanted my 4 to share the same y axis, so it doesn't look like i post as many articles as i post notes
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KevinMarks
I just cloned SIL's ?x,x,x format
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aaronpk
my article values ranged from like 1-3, but notes go from 1-27. so I wanted the peak of the articles peak to be 3/27.
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aaronpk
i changed the function in the JS file to assume the input values were from 0-100, so that i can do the cross-image scaling in my own code
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@miklb
Gauging interest in a #Tampa Homebrew Website Club. Note, not 🍻but 🖥 😀 #indieweb https://miklb.com/interest-in-tampa-homebrew-website-club
(twitter.com/_/status/722495562096975873)
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tantek
aaronpk - it's better design to allow per graph y axis start/end/range
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tantek
to show the contrast for each
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tantek
part of the point of a sparkline is to amplify that vertical shape to show changes
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tantek
while keeping the same timeline
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tantek
hence why they tend to be stacked vertically when there are multiple
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aaronpk
it looked really bad
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aaronpk
when the y axis is so small, the lines no longer look smooth
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aaronpk
it even looks bad just by itself, but looked especially bad when it was next to the others
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tantek
"smooth"?
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KevinMarks
Tufte says the slopes should be ~ 45 degrees
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[shaners]
writing #indieweb lightning tech talk for next Tuesday at Pivotal in Santa Monica
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tantek
does he say why?
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aaronpk
interesting. he compares sparklines to typography, but doesn't say you *have* to use them next to words
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KevinMarks
the stock layout just below that fragmention shows it
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tantek
aaronpk: no because that's inherent in the definition
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tantek
otherwise you just have "charts"
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tantek
nothing wrong with making charts btw, just don't call them sparklines
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tantek
rather, just call them charts :)
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aaronpk
nah it's more subtle than that
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tantek
aaronpk - that screenshot is horizontal - I was talking about vertical stacking
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aaronpk
yeah i haven't switched that yet
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tantek
that's where it makes sense
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aaronpk
i was comparing the different ways of handling Y axis scaling
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tantek
and Tufte would say you *want* the additional contrast / signal in the lower examples
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tantek
the point of a sparkline is not precision but rather giving people a way to *quickly* get an impression of the activity - which is better with higher contrast
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aaronpk
in order for a chart to be a good chart, it needs to communicate data effectively, which means you need explicit values for the two axes. sparklines are just a line, so it's okay if they don't indicate the actual value.
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tantek
that's a key difference between charts and sparklines
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tantek
Tufte goes into that in his books
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tantek
a sparkline is not just a "tiny chart"
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aaronpk
right, which is why i'm saying it's still fine for me to call the horizontally stacked ones sparklines, even though they don't appear inline in text
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KevinMarks
though he does have examples where the most recent value is shown
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tommorris
what is sparkline?
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Loqi
A sparkline is a small, simple, data-dense graphic with typographic resolution that is shown inline and in-context with relevant text https://indiewebcamp.com/sparkline
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KevinMarks
the book chapter is on that page I linked
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aaronpk
there's a good screenshot of twitter analytics with sparklines too http://edwardtufte.com.s3.amazonaws.com/sparkline_twitter.png
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tantek
aaronpk - note that each of those uses the full range
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tantek
rather, same extent above/below a common zero based baseline
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aaronpk
that's because they don't share a common range of values for the Y axis
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tantek
no, it's because that's part of sparklines design
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aaronpk
all of my sparklines describe number of posts. these describe posts vs impressions vs followers
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tantek
and yes - three share the same values range for Y - %
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tantek
same values *type* sorry
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tantek
they actually do not share the same range! that's the point
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KevinMarks
inline SVG with my explict datapoints technique: http://www.kevinmarks.com/minimalspark.html
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tantek
aaronpk: the first four in that Twitter screenshot prove my point
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tantek
all %s
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: the no-js version of that is compelling :)
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tantek
different max/min #s
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KevinMarks
view source on that
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KevinMarks
the data/bytes ratio of the inline SVG is pretty good
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aaronpk
tantek: it's not actually clear whether the sparklines are showing the % or the number
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tantek
yes it is - negative % is below the zero baseline
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tantek
since the "number" for all of those metrics itself is never negative
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tantek
hey brianloveswords !
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tantek
could you make an IWC NYC last weekend in August?
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aaronpk
this is a good illustration of the same reason I didn't like the version of the "articles" sparkline that used the full y axis http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/images/0001OS-15828.gif
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aaronpk
"The aspect ratio for [the left] graphic is chosen in accord with the 45° rule."
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KevinMarks
"aspect ratios should be such that time-series graphics tend toward a lumpy profile rather than a spiky profile or a flat profile."
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KevinMarks
I wonder if we can measure that in code
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aaronpk
he describes it above. that's the 45 degree rule
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aaronpk
"hill-slopes averaging 45°, over every cycle in the time-series"
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KevinMarks
assuming that the series is cyclic
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tantek
kylewm: curious if you've come up with a fix for this https://twitter.com/kylewmahan/status/721792678602510337
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@kylewmahan
@t wow @withknown is explicitly setting that to my twitter:card image :/ that's kinda obnoxious
(twitter.com/_/status/721792678602510337)
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GWG
Afternoon
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aaronpk
waves from pacific time
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GWG
Welcome home, aaronpk
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aaronpk
i may need to switch to the pure svg version of sparklines in order to get them inline. i can't figure out how to make the embed tag to be inline
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aaronpk
i can't figure out how to get the <embed> on the same line as the text. https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-04-19-13-34-33.png
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aaronpk
i'm guessing either an inline <svg> element, or an <img> tag with an svg wouldn't have that problem
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tommorris
sigh, another site death to post.
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kylewm
tantek: no not yet, we talked about it a bit yesterday
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kylewm
one possibility is adding a banner image property to events and using that if available
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tommorris.org
edited /site-deaths (+490) "/* Upcoming */ adding Experience Project"
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@timlb
RT @kevinmarks SVG sparklines that embed the datapoints directly: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html thanks to @adactio, @sil and @EdwardTufte #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/722525903230775296)
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kylewm
ha, thought that was a higher profile retweet for a sec^
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tantek
I was going to say, who is timlb ?!?
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gRegorLove
Good afternoon, indiewebcamp
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[kevinmarks]
Tufte retweeted it yesterday, which is good enough for me
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[kevinmarks]
Is embed always display block?
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[kevinmarks]
I'd suggest the inline SVG method like I posted. You can probably generate the SVG server side easily enough.
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aaronpk
inline SVG better than server-side generated svg in an img tag?
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gRegorLove
[kevinmarks]: Do you have merge capability on microformats/tests? I'd like to get this in so I can include it in php-mf2: https://github.com/microformats/tests/pull/47
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[kevinmarks]
Well, it'll save you 4 image fetches, and the SVG itself should be relatively small
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[kevinmarks]
Depends on server config I suppose
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[kevinmarks]
BTW, if they aren't inline, Tufte calls the pattern "small multiples"
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aaronpk
those have labels for the axes tho
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gRegorLove
Don't think I've heard of "Refback" before
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gregorlove.com
created /User:Gregorlove.com/Archived_Interests (+2224) "Created page with "== Archived on 2016-04-19 == * Fix de-duplication of received webmentions, specifically for Bridgy. [http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-03-18#t1426709353984] * Set up distinct, wel...""
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gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com () "(-1859) /* Interests */ starting fresh"
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