#indiewebcamp 2016-04-20

2016-04-20 UTC
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@hvdsomp RT @dret "webmention" https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ now is in the registry of well-known link relations: http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml #REST #API #pingback (twitter.com/_/status/722602232525369344)
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@phonedude_mln RT @dret "webmention" https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ now is in the registry of well-known link relations: http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml #REST #API #pingback (twitter.com/_/status/722607716535906304)
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gRegorLove I think I have local image caching set up! First few tests have worked, at least.
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gRegorLove I used /ca3db as a guide and just set up a local version with PHP
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KartikPrabhu Loqi messages?
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Loqi grins profusely
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tantek and?
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GWG Just was in the feature project meeting.
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GWG They aren't...against it.
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GWG Apparently, I'm still having trouble boiling it down.
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GWG Oh well.
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tantek GWG, sounds like a good start!
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tantek.com edited /2016/Nuremberg (+102) "/* Photos */ FB & Flickr photo sets" (view diff)
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GWG tantek: You write proposals a lot, right?
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tantek I'm not sure
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GWG Isn't that part of your business?
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GWG Isn't a standard a proposal for people to follow?
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tantek GWG, depends on the particular standard and approach
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tantek these days more and more standards are written up based on more informal conventions that have shown some momentum already
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aaronpk gRegorLove: neat! so you're using the same technique, but written in PHP?
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aaronpk "local" meaning not storing on amazon s3, but just storing on disk?
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KartikPrabhu I see a new "lightning" link on Twitter for "moments"
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tantek yeah don't go there ;)
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tantek does Bridgy Backfeed look for the original post from a FB Event post's "Find Tickets" link?
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GWG I'm just trying to figure out how to write a WordPress prooposal people can get behind
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tantek I'd look first at examples of successful proposals that they've "gotten behind" in the past
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GWG https://make.wordpress.org/core/features/
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Loqi Permalink
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tantek aaronpk: congrats on publishing an update to W3C Webmention in the future: https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ is already showing http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160420/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Webmention
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Webmention
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GWG What's new in this one?
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GWG I just got used to the old one.
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tantek GWG, looks like mostly minor fixes, a few security notes: https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#change-log
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Webmention
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miklb GWG do you have an outline of your proposal?
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GWG I know what I want to do, but I'm having trouble outlining it
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miklb as someone who's been around WP a long time, my 2¢ would be to appeal to the technical merits of new/more efficient code (assuming that is an aspect of the work) and the core of what WP was founded on of owning your data and possessing a democratic voice
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GWG I got some good comments.
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GWG "I've always liked pings from a theoretical viewpoint, and I totally agree that the implementation sucks, so I like it."
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GWG "Three thoughts: 1) The code is indeed some of the oldest in WP. (Though that doesn’t necessarily mean it needs to be rewritten.) 2) The XML-RPC dependency is one of the lightest things about the pingback in WordPress, so I’m not sold on that being a driver. 3) A webmentions plugin would be cool."
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aaronpk haha yes. The w3c publishing system is in UTC so I published it tomorrow today
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aaronpk going to wait until pacific time catches up before I announce it :-)
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GWG aaronpk: Didn't add that question I asked about though.
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GWG This one, which seems to work as a proposal... http://indiewebcamp.com/DDOS#HEAD_request_source_first
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aaronpk yeah, I will add it to the next one. The group approved publishing the current draft so it wouldn't have been appropriate to sneak that in at the last second.
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GWG I like that one as I can imagine a malicious individual trying to get sites to download a video files. And when you pair it with the limit request size one...
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aaronpk Right now it says you *can* do a head request first, but maybe it should recommend it
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aaronpk Bedtime for me now tho
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@anwagnerdreas RT @dret "webmention" https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ now is in the registry of well-known link relations: http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml #REST #API #pingback (twitter.com/_/status/722657797733801985)
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GWG Just showed my nephew the SWAT0 demo for some reason
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kylewm oh la la just got my first native comment spam
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KevinMarks native?
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kylewm https://kylewm.com/2015/10/it-s-fun-to-imagine-the-ting-tings-that-s-not-my/annotations/c118eba8d6f1f4b5cd62423c2bc4c33e
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Loqi [SDF] http://www.oakleysunglassesa.us.com/http://www.oakley-sunglass.us.com/
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kylewm native as opposed to via-webmention
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KevinMarks you let them create an account?
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kylewm nah, the "Public Comments" plugin lets you leave a comment without registering
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tantek kevinmarks++ for https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/722220598663847937 very clever for preserving data fidelity up through content delivery to the client
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@kevinmarks SVG sparklines that embed the datapoints directly: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html thanks to @adactio, @sil and @EdwardTufte #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/722220598663847937)
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@strugee2 RT @dret "webmention" https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ now is in the registry of well-known link relations: http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml #REST #API #pingback (twitter.com/_/status/722673731047460864)
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[kevinmarks] Tantek the svg for the sparklines is easy enough to inline by hand
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@mart1nkle1n RT @dret "webmention" https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ now is in the registry of well-known link relations: http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml #REST #API #pingback (twitter.com/_/status/722689075577241600)
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@DigiHubWales RT @dret "webmention" https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ now is in the registry of well-known link relations: http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml #REST #API #pingback (twitter.com/_/status/722692103051046913)
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@dym_cx Building Decentralized Applications for the Social Web https://github.com/solid/solid-tutorial-intro/ #www2016 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/722694901381652480)
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dym_cx !tell tantek: can twtr.io redirect to m.twitter.com? 1.4Mb vs 3.8Mb on non-mobile site
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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dym_cx 1.4Mb is still too much for 140 letters
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petermolnar dym_cx you mean http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm ?
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bear https://telegram.org/blog/botprize
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[kevinmarks] Another bad data/byte ratio
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[kevinmarks] What is telegram?
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Loqi Telegram is a cross-platform encrypted messaging app https://indiewebcamp.com/Telegram
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Jeena what is wrong here, bridgy or the parser? http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=view-source%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fbrid-gy.appspot.com%2Frsvp%2Ffacebook%2F728407677%2F1775044946048387%2F10152931952860399
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "wrong here, bridgy or the parser" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10JM
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quite e
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Jeena oh wait it was me, I am parsing the source-view
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[kevinmarks] That is asking a bit more from the parser
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dym.cx edited /Telegram (+176) "+founder" (view diff)
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dym_cx http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-20#t1461140133249 > They should be forced to use the Apple hockey puck mouse for the remainder of their professional lives.
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dym_cx what's wrong with having 1-button mouse?
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dym_cx s/having/using/
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Loqi dym_cx meant to say: what's wrong with using 1-button mouse?
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dym_cx general reason for website obesity is the same as for why silos or why using Java – it's **faster and easier** to make a bloated monolithic product which fits needs of the moment
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petermolnar I disagree on this, it think it's just generic greed
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unrelenting.technology edited /reacji (+195) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add my website" (view diff)
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dym_cx petermolnar: "faster and easier" is also greed. for time (man-hours), costs of optimisation, and planning for the future
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myfreeweb for big websites, it's often just managers not paying developers to care about performance specifically and instead demanding to add ALL the analytics services, ALL the ad networks, etc.
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cweiske .. and one department does not have access to the analytics analysis web interface, so they request another tracker to be integrated so they can see, too
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@LinkRelations "webmention" (http://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/) Identifies a target URI that supports the Webmention… (twitter.com/_/status/722756710553616388)
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sknebel Oh, my in-progress webmention endpoint limits the amount of data it downloads *before* decompressing it... I guess I'll have to throw a memory limit on the process as well?
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cweiske you mean you do Range requests?
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sknebel no, but I tell it to stop after downloading 5 MB
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cweiske but you can decompress data even if they are not complete
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sknebel But 5 MB gzipped HTTP-request can expand to 5 GB data in memory
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cweiske h
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cweiske ah
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cweiske that's right
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sknebel and catching that isn't that easy with the libs I'm using
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sknebel so I'll probably set a cgroup and have the verifier OOM-killed when it uses to much memory
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sknebel (or just turn compression off...
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sknebel that sounds easier, now that I think about it
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sknebel loading and parsing user-supplied URLs has a lot of pitfalls, who would have thought ;)
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cweiske I should try to let my webserver deliver a gzip bomb at an url and send webmentions out
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Loqi yea
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GWG Good morning, all.
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aaronpk cweiske: that sounds like a good test to add to https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger
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aaronpk it has some fun XSS tests right now, btu a gzip bomb also sounds fun
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voxpelli cweiske: aaronpk: please do!
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sknebel voxpelli: since it wasn't immediatly obvious what's the best way to add such a test case I created a github issue. I'll try to look into it in more detail in the next few days and will come back to you with questions (haven't done much node.js)
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aaronpk KevinMarks: how do you determine the 6th number in the matrix transform of the SVG? I didn't see that mentioned in the blog post
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voxpelli sknebel: cool, thanks!
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voxpelli sknebel: just a warning that it may take a few weeks before I can give a deeper look at anything :/ Reswamped with work
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aaronpk KevinMarks: also i'm confused because your post says you need to use <embed> but the example above it has the svg in an <img> tag
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sknebel voxpelli: no problem, thanks for the warning though ;)
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aaronpk KevinMarks: i've almost got it looking right with your method, but it's having trouble with the lowest value in the list. compare adactio's version on top and yours below https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-04-20-08-02-20.png
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aaronpk oh nvm that was my bad
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aaronpk it's working pretty well
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aaronpk wow I finally did it, after 2.5 years of itching https://aaronparecki.com/2013/09/17/7/itching-h-event-to-ical-converter
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Itching: h-event to iCal converter
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tantek whoa
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Loqi tantek: dym_cx left you a message 7 hours, 56 minutes ago: can twtr.io redirect to m.twitter.com? 1.4Mb vs 3.8Mb on non-mobile site http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-20/line/1461139188093
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tantek heh
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KartikPrabhu sounds more like Twitter needs to go mobile-first
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aaronpk looks like i get 105kb on mobile.twitter.com so that isn't too bad
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aaronpk chrome says 1.0mb on twitter.com
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KartikPrabhu might depend on number of following or some such?
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KartikPrabhu also Twitter's modal nonsense loads a bunch of unnecessary background stuff
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KartikPrabhu like a giant profile background
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KartikPrabhu s/background/background picture
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: like a giant profile background picture
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kylewm twitter's mobile website hasn't been updated in ages though, like I don't think it has polls or any of that newer stuff
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KartikPrabhu all the more reason to go mobile-first
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kylewm I knew you were going to say that
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KartikPrabhu i knew you were going to say that ^
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kylewm or wait, maybe I don't know what you mean :P
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KartikPrabhu i mean going mobile-first will prevent mobile site from going stale and keep "desktop" site from growing huge
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KartikPrabhu win-win
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kylewm oh yes absolutely agree
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KartikPrabhu or it might make "desktop" site stale and mobile site huge ;)
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kylewm aaronpk: bear: did y'all mention that you had an nginx config that serves /.well-known/acme-challenge across all domains?
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aaronpk yeah kinda
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aaronpk it uses a whitelist so that it doesn't clobber the whole server, but you could change that if you wanted
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2015/12/07/8/letsencrypt
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Setting up HTTPS with Letsencrypt.org
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kylewm hmm, so you mean I could add server_name silo.pub woodwind.xyz kylewm.com
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk that's what i do now
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kylewm hmm, ok but I can't have multiple server blocks for the same server, so all three would have to do the same http->https redirection
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bear kylewm: https://gist.github.com/bear/bd9761d3ec8127183238de41708230e1
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aaronpk i should update my example
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Loqi +1
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aaronpk bear: i've found you have to use $http_host instead of $server_name
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aaronpk since $server_name is set to the first server name in the list, not the one that was used for the requst
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bear I probably would have learned that once I got to > 1 item :)
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aaronpk updated my post. thx kylewm
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kylewm you guys are awesome, thanks!
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kylewm I have already referred to this post like 4 times :P
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emmahodge.org edited /Planning (+5) "/* New York City 2 */" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Aaron: when you invert the y axis you have to move it back up by twice the lowest y value
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tantek I feel like this article illustrates another opportunity for the indieweb to do better than the corporate web but I'm not sure where to capture it on the wiki: http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm
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tantek any thoughts?
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[kevinmarks] I should clarify that.
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Loqi agreed.
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aaronpk checks how big his pageloads are
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aaronpk notices a 30kb google favicon that could probably be trimmed down
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[kevinmarks] This is related, Tantek http://www.poynter.org/2016/ad-tech-is-broken-heres-how-newsrooms-can-fix-it/407800/
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tantek kevinmarks, sorta - adtech is only part of the problem
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aaronpk hmm, the CSS/JS library i'm using is 768kb
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tantek bloat is the larger problem, so to speak
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[kevinmarks] So much of the page bloat is Adtech metastatizing
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aaronpk plus jquery at another 95k
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tantek and most indieweb sites don't have any adtech nonsense anyway
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[kevinmarks] Yes
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[kevinmarks] I think I'll write up the data/byte ratio analogy to Tufte
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tantek takes a look at recent edits to https://indiewebcamp.com/Planning#New_York_City_2
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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kylewm aaronpk: the very last command letsencrypt-auto --renew; I think that has changed
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aaronpk hm, it's still working for me
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kylewm just running "letsencrypt-auto renew" checks all the certificates in the system and tries to renew them if necessary
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kylewm oh ok
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aaronpk oh interesting, so it will know not to renew unless it's expiring soon?
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indie-visitor hello friends! i have found a venue for indie web camp NYC for the weekend of 8/27
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kylewm I get "letsencrypt: error: ambiguous option: --renew could match --renew-by-default, --renew-hook
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aaronpk hm, maybe it did change in the last week or two
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tantek hello indie-visitor! use the /nick yourname command to change your nickname :)
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aaronpk this is the classic problem with trying to automate all the things. automation breaks if they make changes to the scripts.
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tantek Welcome back Emma! :)
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Emma hi!
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Loqi [indieweb] "New @W3C Webmention working draft today!
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snarfed.org created /interested (+232) "create page" (view diff)
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@indiewebcamp MT @t: New @W3C Webmention working draft! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160420/ 0 technical issues! #socialweb #indieweb (ttk.me t4gr2) (twitter.com/_/status/722836614922113024)
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tantek Emma, did you say we have a venue for IWC NYC2?!?
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[kevinmarks] Er, the height plus twice the lowest y value
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aaronpk this is going to take some fiddling to get it to look good https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-04-20-10-19-08.png
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tantek aaronpk - that already looks amazing
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tantek kinda jelly actually
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aaronpk the little post previews are tricky
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tantek did you fix the x-axes of the sparklines to all start on the same day?
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aaronpk it's like i have to come up with a new layout for a 1/4 wide version of each kind of post
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tantek true - FB does that for link-preview
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tantek when you link something it shows a mini version of the post
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aaronpk kinda. i realized that the sparklines were only showing values for weeks when there were posts, so I made it fill in with 0s if there were no posts that week.
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aaronpk so they are now all the same x-axis
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tantek cool
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aaronpk i think they take up too much horizontal space tho. might try moving the text above the sparkline
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tantek I think you could the headings down a lot on the 1/4 wide versions
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tantek no no don't do that
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tantek shorten the sparklines
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tantek that will get them closer to the 45deg ideal limit
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aaronpk shortening them will increase the angles though
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tantek you could even cut their width by 2/3
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tantek shorten the height by 50%
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tantek reduce width to 2/3 current
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tantek the peaks of the sparklines should not go above the capital/ascenders of the line they're on
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tantek you can drop the headings on the 4 blocks I think
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tantek sleep is pretty self-evident from the chart
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aaronpk yeah dropping the headers cleans it up a lot https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-04-20-10-26-38.png
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tantek the eat/drink icons convey that type sufficiently
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tantek photo is obv as is event
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tantek interesting difference between the 4 things you show sparklines for vs. the 4 things you show boxes for
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aaronpk oh the other way i was thinking about showing the sleep image (or maybe add a sparkline for sleep?) is to show a graph of amount of sleep per night for the last n nights
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tantek makes sense
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aaronpk food wouldn't be interesting as a sparkline since it's relatively consistent. events wouldn't be interesting because there are so few of them compared to the rest.
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tantek hey NYC (and those that travel to) folks — GWG, brianloveswords, bear, benward - looks like we have a venue for IWC NYC2!!! https://indiewebcamp.com/Planning#New_York_City_2 — weekend of 2016-08-27..28
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tantek aaronpk: I think the color detail chart on sleep looks nicer in the design
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tantek than another sparkline would
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tantek bear, GWG, and everyone else - how does 8/27-28 in NYC look for you?
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tantek shall we lock down the IWC NYC2 dates?
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snarfed morning indiewebcamp!
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snarfed bridgy had its 3000th user sign up last night, whee! https://brid.gy/#stats
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snarfed so we have a bridgy publish design problem that we'd love feedback on
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snarfed we're starting to support multi-user sites, where there's a single domain and each user has a path prefix
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snarfed we added support, and it works, but it also broke a few single-user sites who link to a path in their silo profile instead of their home page, e.g. me.com/about instead of me.com
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snarfed any thoughts on how to distinguish and handle multi-user vs single-user domains?
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snarfed background in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/652 and https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/644
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bear tantek - that is far enough away that I have no worries about the dates - I don't plan things more than 2 weeks out
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tantek.com created /2016/NYC2 (+178) "stub it with to-do. Let's do this!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+20) "/* New York City 2 */ link to NYC2 event page" (view diff)
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sknebel snarfed: just from the example, wwwtech.de has a rel=me to wwwtech.de/about. that might be an indicator?
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sknebel but requires that on a multiuser site the main page is "trusted" (as in, no user can add a rel=me there)
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snarfed sknebel: rel-me, yes! that's one of three ideas so far, in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/652
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sknebel oh, then I interpreted that wrong
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tantek hmm - looks like FB's "See Friendship" feature has been quietly regressing
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tantek as in losing functionality. seems to now only show date you "friended", and globally visible photos that you're both tagged in. used to show things like events you both went to
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gRegorLove What is multi-user site?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "multi-user site" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10JN
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snarfed A multi-user site has multiple users' web pages on a single domain, e.g. https://unicyclic.com/ . Users often have their own path prefix, e.g. https://unicyclic.com/mal/ . Most silos are multi-user sites.
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tantek what silos are not multi-user sites?
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snarfed tantek: ones that give you a subdomain
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tantek interesting distinction
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snarfed (i don't really care too much about terminology here though, happy to cede any details)
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snarfed loqi didn't catch my definition :(
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snarfed.org created /multi-user_site (+215) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-20/line/1461174639660" (view diff)
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aaronpk needs "is" instead of "has"
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snarfed oh
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snarfed thx
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gRegorLove I like the idea of matching the author URL against their link on the silo, though depending how much HTML control each user has, they could spoof it.
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tantek aaronpk: we should do demos at HWCs tonight of all the things people got working at IWC Nuremberg!!
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aaronpk good idea! tho I just realized I haven't posted this on calagator yet.
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aaronpk always tricky remembering to do that after coming back from a trip
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kylewm gRegorLove: I think you mitigate that by requiring mutual rel-me links
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gRegorLove Makes sense
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2016-04-20-homebrew-website-club (+41) "/* Portland */ add calagator URL" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Interesting. I just noticed that android N puts web pages back in a sub tab of chrome, except some progressive web apps get
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[kevinmarks] Their own slot
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[kevinmarks] But not adactio.com
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Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" http://calagator.org/events/1250470155
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tantek kylewm: I'm ready to try making webactions / indie-config work again with your site - if you can still hack it up to do so!
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tantek I got my webactions working with voxpelli's indie-config (as in he was able to click on my "like" and "reply" buttons and have them automatically open up in Quill to post to his site, instead of the fallback Twitter tweet actions)
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tantek maybe tonight?
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snarfed aww https://shanehudson.net/ is down
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gRegorLove [kevinmarks]: sub-tab? Like each tab isn't a separate card in the app switcher?
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kylewm tantek: we can definitely try it with 2015.kylewm.com ... adding web acitons to Known would be non-trivial
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[kevinmarks] Yes, the app switcher just has chrome, but chrome has a number that expands into cards
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[kevinmarks] But some progressive web apps get their own top level card
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[kevinmarks] Not sure what triggers it
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sknebel [kevinmarks]: web application manifest maybe? or is that not enough?
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tantek anyone know how many actual RSVP implementations we have? I feel like there are a lot (from seeing RSVPs on indie events) but we haven't documented them all yet in /rsvp
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tantek any estimates even?
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tantek like Jeena and webrocker's RSVPs here: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/04/16/1/indiewebcamp
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Nürnberg 2016
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tantek !tell Jeena when did you post your first indie RSVP? was this your first? https://jeena.net/comments/627
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[kevinmarks] Well, adactio.com didn't trigger it, and he has a service worker
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[kevinmarks] Who else did progressive web app stuff recently?
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GWG Afternoon
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tantek afternoon GWG - did you see we have an IWC NYC2 venue?
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GWG I saw the message, need to read where
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tantek it's in /Planning :)
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KartikPrabhu what is planning?
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Loqi The IndieWebCamp community is planning numerous upcoming events, including future IndieWebCamps, regular Homebrew Website Club meetups, talks, and other proposals — if you'd like to help, please contribute to this page! https://indiewebcamp.com/Planning
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GWG And this time... no snow.
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GWG I hope
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tantek in August? yeah that would be strange
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GWG Climate change
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GWG Unrelated...
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GWG Other than Vouch and CSRF, what other variables have people been passing to a webmention endpoint?
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+298) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Jeena and Tim" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk we need get all the people from IWC Nuremberg to hop onto IRC or Slack
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aaronpk oh yeah that'd be awesome
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tantek I think we need to add explicit info about IRC + wiki into introductions
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tantek because we both forgot to tell people about it
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aaronpk i can ask joschi to send out a 'thank you for coming' email to everyone that includes that info
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tantek yes! as a next steps
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-28) "/* Join the IndieWeb */ use our new web based UI instead of freenode UI" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] aaronpk: is your sparkline site that you sent a png of up somewhere?
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aaronpk i haven't launched it yet
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aaronpk still fiddling with it
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[kevinmarks] your topical previews remind me of the storycards I was making
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[kevinmarks] what goes in them?
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[kevinmarks] the other way to do that is the iframe scaled down 50% in each direction trick I use, which if your layout is responsive anyway can work well
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[kevinmarks] should I expand my post to explain the matrix maths?
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aaronpk yes plz
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gRegorLove aaronpk: Is my rsvp showing up weird here because of my mf2 or bc of your site migration? https://aaronparecki.com/2014/06/28/3/indiewebcamp-2014
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Loqi IndieWebCamp 2014
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tantek welcome back Emma! meet GWG - your fellow NYC2 co-organizer
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aaronpk um, that was a while ago. did your markup change between then and now?
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tantek "<!-- <div class="p-author h-card"..." ?!?
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aaronpk i'm trying to remember the process i used to import my comments
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tantek gRegorLove: minor nits
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tantek <p class="p-in-reply-to h-cite"> should be <p class="u-in-reply-to h-cite">
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Emma hi GWG !
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Emma and everyone
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Emma excited organize NYC together
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tantek definitely!
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GWG I haven't even organized my apartment. I can't take on the whole city
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Emma lolllll
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Emma dream big, GWG! we can do it. the entire city. all 5 boroughs.
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Emma dream big, GWG! we can do it. the entire city. all 5 boroughs.
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Emma we have a head start because someone already set up a grid for us
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GWG As long as you take Staten Island I'm in.
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gRegorLove tantek: The legacy HTML is commented out. Author info at the bottom.
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gRegorLove I don't recall why I set it up as p-in-reply-to but it parses out properly. http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2F2014%2F06%2Fyes-looking-forward-to-meeting%2F
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tantek whoa - that doesn't make sense
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aaronpk i thought the only difference in that case was what the "value" of the h-* object was
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Emma ha, ok im all over staten island.
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tantek aaronpk: yes, that's the only difference although somehow the parser is just returning the URL - I don't understand
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aaronpk i wonder if something in 0.3.0 changed?
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gRegorLove iirc, I was aiming to get a minimal reply-context of "in reply to: [link]" to used some "weird" mf2, like the p-in-reply-to.
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20160420202936210
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gRegorLove It's years old at this point, obviously, so I should revisit it. I understand mf2 better now. :)
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gregorlove.com edited /rsvp (+165) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ +me, manual rsvp example" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+0) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ sort" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Re-sent and it worked, though came from https version. I need to fix that.
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gRegorLove aaronpk: I'm confused the difference between that pin13 parse you linked and the one direct from my site
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aaronpk i just copied a snippet of your html
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[kevinmarks] hm, as I look at this sparkline code I realise I could do it in one loop not 2
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gRegorLove Yeah, but the in-reply-to.value parsed different with the snippet than http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2F2014%2F06%2Fyes-looking-forward-to-meeting%2F Hm
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gRegorLove Back to the drawing board.
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gRegorLove What is in-reply-to?
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Loqi in-reply-to is a microformat for use where a post is a reply to another post https://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to
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aaronpk it looks the same to me
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gRegorLove Oh, I get it. I was getting confused by the implied name property in the snippet. That's what's different from the full page parse, understandably.
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[kevinmarks] aaronpk: is this clearer: http://www.kevinmarks.com/svgsparklines.html
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Loqi SVG Sparklines 2016-04-18
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[kevinmarks] (wondering if I need a diagram)
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notenoughneon.com edited /events/2016-04-20-homebrew-website-club (+12) "/* Portland */" (view diff)
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aaronpk that makes sense!
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[kevinmarks] also, there is a little bit of cropping of the sparkline as the polyline is centred on the co-ordinates, so zero or max runs will be half width
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aaronpk diagram would be awesome but i think not necessary
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KevinMarks http://www.kevinmarks.com/sparkline.svg?1,10,10,10,1,1,1,3,5,10
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KevinMarks so I should cheat the bounding box a bit
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KevinMarks grr
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KevinMarks design is hard
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aaronpk oh interesting, yeah i was noticing some oddness around the edges but oculdn't figure ito ut
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[kevinmarks] hm
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[kevinmarks] this is where the stroke-width being a percent of the viewport is tricky
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[kevinmarks] and there is some oddness depending on the raw ratio make the stroke kind of italic
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[kevinmarks] http://www.kevinmarks.com/sparkline.svg?1,100,100,100,1,1,1,3,5,100
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[kevinmarks] gah
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[kevinmarks] also, the for the use case of posting frequency, it should really be a barchart, not line joining points
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[kevinmarks] I am going down the dataviz rabbithole now
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aaronpk really? i think the line is fine for this use case
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aaronpk it's more about showing trends than exact amounts
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[kevinmarks] Right, but it was meant for time series of continuous quantities, not discrete ones
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[kevinmarks] The examples are medical and stock prices
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Loqi [indieweb] "Moving kylewm.com to Known #indieweb" https://kylewm.com/2016/01/moving-kylewm-com-to-known-indieweb
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Loqi [indieweb] "To Known-dev: The Case Against ActivityStreamsPost" https://kylewm.com/2016/02/to-known-dev-the-case-against-activitystreamspost
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Loqi [indieweb] "This Week in the IndieWeb" https://kylewm.com/2015/05/this-week-in-the-indieweb
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Loqi [indieweb] "SF Homebrew Website Club" https://kylewm.com/2016/04/apr-20-sf-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [indieweb] "SF Homebrew Website Club" https://kylewm.com/2016/05/may-04-sf-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [indieweb] "SF Homebrew Website Club" https://kylewm.com/2016/05/may-18-sf-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi [indieweb] "I 20% want to make an #indieweb kylewm_ebooks that POSSEs nonsense and replies to webmentions" https://kylewm.com/2016/04/i-20-want-to-make-an-indieweb-kylewm-ebooks-that
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snarfed kylewm: touching your old posts? :P
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kylewm Apparently
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@aaronpk Just published a new @W3C Webmention working draft today, with all technical issues closed! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ #indieweb #socialweb (twitter.com/_/status/722906180733919232)
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aaronpk Loqi knows all
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Loqi who, me?
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kylewm those three events pinged because I changed their permalinks, I'm not sure about the other two!
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aaronpk argh, i really want to launch my new home page design because now my site looks super boring without it
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aaronpk but i still have more tweaking to do on it
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kylewm "I don't always tweak, but when i tweak..."
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[shaners] aaronpk: You can add my Ruby link rel parser to http://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#endpoint-discovery
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Webmention
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aaronpk oh yeah awesome
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tantek shaners - is it deployed anywhere?
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tantek is it extracted from Dark Matter?
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Loqi [indieweb] "Just published a new @W3C Webmention working draft today, with all technical issues closed!..."
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aaronpk Loqi: what happened to that permalink??
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[shaners] Tantek: No. Not deployed yet. It’s just a port of your php one right now.
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snarfed kylewm: i also got a new wms from a couple likes/replies of yours in the last hour, looking like similar permalink changes. (just fyi)
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tantek cool - maybe add it to the wiki first for folks to try it?
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tantek shaners, e.g. in this list maybe next to the php one: https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Sending
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[shaners] :+1::skin-tone-2:
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aaronpk is there something missing in my atom feed that made superfeedr not find the permalink? https://granary-demo.appspot.com/url?input=html&output=atom&url=https%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com/notes
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tantek shaners++ for putting up with my C-like coding conventions and porting anyway :)
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Loqi shaners has 31 karma
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[shaners] tantek: this is the second thing of yours I’ve ported. :simple_smile:
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aaronpk oh, well granary isn't finding my author h-card also
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[shaners] The first pass is to just convert your C style php into C style Ruby.
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[shaners] Get it working. (The tests helped with this.)
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[shaners] Then to make it more idiomatic Ruby.
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snarfed oh aaronpk you may be interested in https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/53
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snarfed (unrelated to the permalink q though)
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aaronpk oh yeah
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kylewm snarfed: good lord, yes, it seems I forgot to turn off webmention sending while migrating :(
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kylewm sorry about that
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snarfed kylewm: heh. it's a feature, updating permalinks! :P
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aaronpk migrating?
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aaronpk oh hey https://kylewm.com/ looks different again
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veganstraightedge.com edited /Webmention (+193) "/* Add link_rel_parser-ruby to implementations */" (view diff)
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snarfed wow yes it does
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snarfed and missing <meta name="generator" content="Known">
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[shaners] o_O
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kylewm haha
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kylewm we talked about it a little in indiechat this morning; i decided to move my known site to known.kylewm.com and keep working on it there
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kylewm (long story short, I can never commit to anything for very long)
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snarfed aha, got it
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snarfed cool!
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kylewm huh, is rel=previous (as opposed to rel=prev) used actively?
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tantek kylewm: they're aliases so you can treat them the same
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tantek they're both used often enough to support both
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KartikPrabhu tantek: your legacy feed needs a space. For example this http://tantek.com/2016/111/f4 shows up as "likesaaronparecki.com’s post". Note no space between "likes" and "aaronparecki.com
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] likes aaronparecki.com’s post
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KartikPrabhu nothing major
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tantek KartikPrabhu: oops! thank you
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@jgarber @BryanSchuetz An example of a static site pulling in webmentions: https://www.aaron-gustafson.com/notebook/enabling-webmentions-in-jekyll/ (twitter.com/_/status/722927033966292993)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that may be an XML bug
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@indiewebcamp RT @aaronpk Just published a new @W3C Webmention working draft today, with all technical issues closed! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ #indieweb #socialweb (twitter.com/_/status/722927963516178435)
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[shaners] tantek: I see the same missing space in my feed reader (Reeder.app Mac/iOS), but there’s a space present in your /updates.atom.
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[shaners] <content type="xhtml" xml:base="http://tantek.com/2016/" xml:space="preserve">
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[shaners] <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">likes <a href="https://aaronparecki.com/2016/04/19/8/webmention">aaronparecki.com’s post</a></div>
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[shaners] </content>
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Awesome! The IANA link rel registry now includes the @W3C "webmention"! http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml
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tantek right: "likes <a "
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tantek maybe I have to put xml:space="preserve" on the div too? in addition to the containing <content> element?
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tantek xml--
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Loqi xml has -16 karma
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tantek deservedly
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[shaners] I don’t know enough about XML homeopathy to even guess at why that happens.
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tantek XML homeopathy (!!!)
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snarfed wat
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tantek ok reload tantek.com/updates.atom
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tantek I just looked at it in Firefox and there's a space after "likes"
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aaronpk i wonder if i should add my osbridge profile as a rel=me to my website
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tantek so if your feed reader still gets it wrong, file a bug in your feed reader, and tell them Firefox treats it properly, so they should too
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aaronpk it's getting to be a pretty good collection of things http://opensourcebridge.org/users/548
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Loqi Aaron Parecki
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tantek aaronpk - can you get them to add h-card to their /users/ pages? is the opensourcebridge site code on github
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tantek ?
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tantek I mean, if not ... how "opensource" is that?
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tantek where's the bridge to their opensource?
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tantek ;)
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aaronpk it's called openconferenceware http://openconferenceware.org/
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aaronpk they have vcard, which is how Loqi found my name above
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[shaners] aaronpk: This looks like the partial.
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[shaners] https://github.com/osbridge/openconferenceware/blob/master/app/views/open_conference_ware/users/_block.html.erb
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aaronpk yeah. i think i'd have to install the whole thing to feel comfortable submitting a PR. otherwise i might get it wrong
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tantek shaners nice sleuthing!
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tantek lol
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tantek I have no such feels of discomfort
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[shaners] aaronpk: I’m more cavalier than that.
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[shaners] If you don’t wanna, I will.
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aaronpk sure ya do! you wouldn't want an incorrect example out there right?
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tantek aaronpk - I'm ok with iterating with production
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[shaners] tantek: If you make the issue, I’ll create a PR.
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tantek shaners I was going to say vice versa ;)
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[shaners] I make the issue, and you commit the code?
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[shaners] I dunno. It’s Rails. You might go bananas because it uses a template language. With Ruby and HTML intertwangled. :stuck_out_tongue:
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gRegorLove Related: "When you fix a bug in production" http://i.imgur.com/vWkPc1m.gifv
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tantek shaners it's good for me to be exposed to more Rails code, I need to broaden my perspective anyway ;)
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tantek gRegorLove: ts;dw (too slow, didn't watch)
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tantek shaners while you're in there, can you file a bug that opensourcebridge site is not HTTPS? :P
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gRegorLove Haha
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[shaners] tantek: https://github.com/osbridge/openconferenceware/issues/119
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tantek likes http://opensourcebridge.org/proposals/1872
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[shaners] I’ll leave the https issue for someone else.
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tantek aww
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tantek shaners was just going to say, opensourcebridge should accept Webmentions so we can "favorite" (AKA like) session proposals from our own sites, like http://opensourcebridge.org/proposals/1872
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tantek like http://tantek.com/2016/111/f6
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] likes opensourcebridge.org’s post
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tantek nicely done Loqi
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Loqi yeah!
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tantek aaronpk: did you post http://opensourcebridge.org/proposals/1872 anywhere on your own site? like in totality? so that the opensourcebridge version is a POSSE copy? or is it only there?
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aaronpk it's only there, but that's a great idea
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tantek point being, if you POSSEd it from your site, you could also send it, say, in "Session Proposal: ... " form, to Twitter etc. and people could like it there too
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tantek I wonder if you could backfeed from the opensourcebridge favorites
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tantek hmm - it doesn't show on the page all the people who liked it
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[shaners] We should work on getting GitHub to add mf2 to the site.
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Loqi it is probable
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[shaners] https://twitter.com/veganstraightedge/status/722934959808319489
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@veganstraightedge Dear @github, Who do I need to talk to to get #microformats2 on the site. Especially on profile pages. ❤️ Sb (twitter.com/_/status/722934959808319489)
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tantek nice
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-6) "DC" (view diff)