#indieweb

2016-05-04

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rMdes
finally solved my dreamhost issue not forcing HTTPS :)
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@wprincipiante
Ayer te explicamos lo que son los #trackbacks, #linkbacks y #webmentions en #WordPres y sus diferencias 🎓 http://wprincipiante.es/trackbacks-pingbacks-y-webmentions/ (twtr.io/1CDAqk2p09c)
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@jkphl
Being @zbau_nbg & scouting the #indieweb hack day venue https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/727835656483909632/photo/1 (twtr.io/1CDLj4eJqTC)
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@Inkwater_Masha
7 Surprising Things I Learned #Self-Publishing a #Bo http://www.writersdigest.com/online-editor/7-surprising-things-i-learned-self-publishing-a-book?platform=hootsuite ok #selfpub #indieauth (twtr.io/1CDQNxhVw7U)
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bnvk
definitely a tad bit of support for IWC stack on F-Droid https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient/issues/646
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jansauer.de
edited /2016/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (+132) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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sknebel
aaronpk: on http://indiewebcamp.com/irc the calendar for the chat logs goes all the way back to 2011 for me, the source looks like it is supposed be limited to 6 months instead?
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www.svenknebel.de
edited /IRC (+279) "/* Cross-platform */ Added Quassel" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de
edited /IRC (-125) "/* Cross-platform */ shortened quassel description" (view diff)
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kylewm.com
edited /User:Kylewm.com (+105) "/* Itches */ preserve timezones on reply contexts and received comments rather than converting everything to P[SD]T" (view diff)
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@veganstraightedge
RT @aaronpk Registration for IndieWeb Summit is open! http://2016.indieweb.org Pretty thrilled to be doing this for the 6th year in PDX! (twtr.io/1CDh4shVCbG)
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kylewm
heh, noticed "rsvping" on the wiki. good name for indie rsvps
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@HongPong
For better less corporate-rekt internets Portland OR peeps plz check #indieweb summit June 3-5 2016 http://2016.indieweb.org cc @rechelon (twtr.io/1CDiTgPKoks)
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[kevinmarks]
RSV ping?
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kylewm
hehe yep
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Hans, I've got the same issue of being marked "pending" and sadly those only show up in your own feed on Disqus. I typically post" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/hans-ive-got-the-same-issue-of-being-marked-pending
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@veganstraightedge
Geocities Forever. A sad shadow of what Geocities once was. #indieweb #sitedeaths http://www.geocitiesforever.com (twtr.io/1CDoB4Y38sG)
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boffosocko.com
edited /Monocle (+166) "Monocle offline; link to other readers" (view diff)
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calumryan
Any home-brewing tonight in Brighton?
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Loqi
calumryan: tantek left you a message on 4/6 at 10:58am: did you take a photo at Homebrew Website Club 2016-03-23? Can you add it to: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-23-homebrew-website-club#Photos ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-06/line/1459965493893
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@veganstraightedge
Waybackpack: CLI to download the entire Wayback Machine archive for a given URL. #indieweb https://github.com/jsvine/waybackpack (twtr.io/1CDoTYtDeyw)
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KevinMarks
yes, it's on
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KevinMarks
calumryan: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-04-homebrew-website-club 68 middle street at 6
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KevinMarks
" In some cases, you might truly have an object that the HTML spec, ARIA, and microformats all never accounted for." http://alistapart.com/article/meaningful-css-style-like-you-mean-it
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Loqi
[Tim Baxter] Meaningful CSS: Style Like You Mean It
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KevinMarks
Interesting as it is implying that styling microformat classes makes sense, whereas we have avoided that somewhat
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KevinMarks
also, I don't know enough about ARIA
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tantek
KevinMarks, no we have not avoided "styling microformat classes", we started with that approach, and then over time learned that that actually harms indepednent maintainability of form/content vs style/presentation.
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tantek
We *now* recommend avoiding directly styling microformats class names due to that longterm real world experience.
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[shaners]
tantek are the issues experienced documented somewhere?
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tantek
pretty sure I captured a bunch on the microformats wiki
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tantek
I mean that ^^^ is a pretty good summary of the biggest issue
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tantek
I'll restate to be clearer: styling microformat directly classes actually harms (makes it much harder to keep) independent maintainability of form/content vs style/presentation, which ends up causing the microformats to break, or the presentation to break when you change just one or the other, which can happen easily in larger teams where different people work on different pieces.
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tantek
so the one obvious exception is when you're just doing a one-off site that you don't expect to change (the content and/or presentation of)
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@derSchepp
@oliverlindberg Yes, seen that! I planned to hang around at Sipgate. I registered for the Indiewebcamp but since I can only attend on... (twtr.io/1CDvb1eiaYG)
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[shaners]
tantek: sounds like a team size / communication problem, not a technical
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[shaners]
s/not a technical/not a technical one/
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Loqi
[shaners] meant to say: tantek: sounds like a team size / communication problem, not a technical one
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tantek
shaners - I have had this problem with a team size of 1
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tantek
but you're right that team size makes it worse
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[shaners]
You are an Enterpriseâ„¢ of one :stuck_out_tongue:
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tantek
:sadface:
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aaronpk
i have also experienced it with just myself
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KevinMarks
I certainly experienced it when adding mf1 calsses to projects, and having them removed later because nothing was styling them
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KevinMarks
though the real answer there is to add a parse and validate test tot he project
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[kevinmarks]
I'm assuming mf2 style is more clearly distinct
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aaronpk
this looks neat: https://github.com/sindresorhus/refined-twitter/blob/master/readme.md
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GWG
I need some design advice
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aaronpk
wow it's amazing
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aaronpk
now i don't have to hesitate to open twitter.com links anymore
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GWG
I have been working on the Webmentions plugin and Pingbacks in WordPress Core because of a common problem
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GWG
Without Mf parsing, what should a pingback or webmention display as content?
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tantek
what is Quassel?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Quassel" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Ko
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tantek
GWG, pingback, undefined. Webmention? I'd say nothing.
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tantek
If someone is implementing webmention, they should also be publishing microformats2.
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tantek
if not, it's effectively an error, and better to let them know about it, and encourage them to fix it
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GWG
pfefferle solve this with the text, "This was mentioned on example.com
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tantek
sure you could do that too. maybe even with "Want your comment and author credit to show up? Use Indiewebify.me to validate your microformats"
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tantek
sknebel: ^^^ re: what is Quassel
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GWG
I am wondering if I should propose that the This was mentioned text replace the existing pingback text in WordPress Core
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tantek
GWG better to use the active voice too
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tantek
"Example.com mentioned this."
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GWG
The existing is the [...]
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tantek
right, that's nearly uselesss / always noisy
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tantek
and a lazy legacy from TrackBack
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kylewm
whoa, I did not expect them to ever change mobile.twitter.com
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GWG
My proposal is that it shows the human note, and that can be enhanced by the other changes I am making.
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tantek
kylewm: what did they do?
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kylewm
it is very js;dr now
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kylewm
and looks just like the android app
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tantek
kylewm: oh dear that's too bad
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aaronpk
it's still much lighter weight than main twitter.com
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kylewm
the situation before was the mobile site hadn't been updated in years, didn't show images, polls, etc.
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[kevinmarks]
There are different presentation styles appropriate for note and article posts
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tantek
re: ???
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[kevinmarks]
Webmentions
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aaronpk
iirc that's documented on /comments-presentation
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tantek
sure, and that assumes microformats also. GWG was asking about some sort of default in the absence thereof.
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[kevinmarks]
The pingback default was based on the assumption of long posts
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GWG
I am trying to get php-mf2 into WordPress as part of the SimplePie update
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tantek
how easy is it to update it with bug fixes once you get it in?
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GWG
So, I am trying to work on different fronts
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GWG
tantek, ticket in each version release.
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GWG
Unit ye
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GWG
tests
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tantek
GWG cool.
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GWG
If not, then it continues to make sense to make microformats a plugin
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GWG
That is why I am working on improving the Pingback handler to work nicer with plugins
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GWG
At the same time I am trying to mirror those changes in the existing plugin code
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GWG
If I fail, no one will say that I didn't try
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GWG
They are working on early tickets for WordPress 4.6, so this is a good time to try and get eyes on patches.
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tantek
snarfed, FYI, economic reason NOT to upgrade your OS(X) - because doing so makes your computer not work with your printer that you paid for.
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tantek
"Free Update" is actually a lie. It's a "Assett loss update" since you can no longer use an assett you purchased.
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KevinMarks
it's This Week in Google time
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KevinMarks
send me you suggestions
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tantek
KevinMarks - Micropub has multiple interoperable clients for Creating, Deleting, Updating posts
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tantek
see the latest W3C Working Draft, published *today*, at https://w3.org/TR/micropub
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gRegorLove
GWG: WordPress includes SimplePie?
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GWG
Bundled in
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gRegorLove
SimplePie 1.4 already parses mf2 then
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GWG
I proposed an update to 1.4 for the h-feed parsing
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gRegorLove
Nice!
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GWG
gRegorLove, only if you also bundle php-mf2
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hongpong
i thought simplepie was abandonware
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GWG
New maintainer
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gRegorLove
hongpong: Nope, our own mblaney has been making lots of updates!
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hongpong
cool that is good to hear gregorlove
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gRegorLove
What is SimplePie?
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Loqi
SimplePie is a feed parser library written in PHP, which supports h-feed parsing as of version 1.4 https://indiewebcamp.com/SimplePie
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[benatwork]
Would simplepie with mf2 mean that feedwordpress reads h-feeds? I’d imagine so. And that’s used in far more places than you’d think.
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GWG
gRegorLove, ironically, I think the old maintainers were WordPress people
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gRegorLove
I'm surprised SimplePie is in WP. A bit unfortunate that php-mf2 has to be included separately with SimplePie though
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GWG
It would make a lot possible.
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GWG
I will defer to mblaney on that
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gRegorLove
I'm working on a PR to add h-feed parsing to picoFeed
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gRegorLove
What is picoFeed?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "picoFeed" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Kp
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gRegorLove
picoFeed is a PHP library to parse and write feeds https://github.com/fguillot/picoFeed
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loqi.me
created /picoFeed (+114) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-04/line/1462393829661 and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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Loqi
ok
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aaronpk
all this talk of h-feed parsing makes me nervous
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aaronpk
the bit of work i did on that for Monocle and a couple other small things made it really obvious how much variation there is in the way people publish h-feeds or lists of h-entrys
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GWG
aaronpk, did you document that?
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aaronpk
it would be good to collect these into a test suite, since otherwise each implementation is going to only successfully handle a subset of feeds
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gregorlove.com
edited /picoFeed (+246) "link, mf support, see also" (view diff)
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aaronpk
i've started to collect tests in XRay that capture those
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aaronpk
https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/tree/master/tests/data/feed.example.com
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KevinMarks
sounds like feeds to me
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aaronpk
but feed parsing in XRay is not complete
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KevinMarks
universal feedparser has thousands of tests
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aaronpk
right. but hearing someone say "I added h-feed parsing to X" makes me nervous because there isn't an actual definition of what an h-feed is
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KevinMarks
there's at least as much a defintion as there is for RSS
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KevinMarks
morons and assholes all the way down
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aaronpk
one of the issues is determining the author of a post in a feed
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aaronpk
the other is how to determine whether a list of h-entrys is actually a feed or not
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KevinMarks
if there isn't a feed-level author?
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KevinMarks
we found the other day that atom is worse than h-feed for authorship
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aaronpk
there could be a per-post author, a feed-level author, or if there is no h-feed and only a list of h-entrys, then there might be a sibling h-card that is the author
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gRegorLove
Based on what I've done with picoFeed so far, I think I'm content to just use the domain name as the fallback author if there is no h-entry author or h-feed author
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aaronpk
gRegorLove: how does picofeed handle my site?
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KevinMarks
because you can't specify a photo at post level in atom
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gRegorLove
aaronpk: Don't know, I'll try it out.
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gRegorLove
I haven't fully implemented /authorship on it yet
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aaronpk
i'm guessing it will fail pretty bad because I 1) don't have a top-level h-feed, and 2) am step 7 on /authorship
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gRegorLove
I've got it parsing implicit h-feeds, so that part isn't a problem.
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gRegorLove
But yeah, author would probably be blank currently.
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KevinMarks
I don't have post level author at kevinmarks.com
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gRegorLove
Cool. More tests for me!
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KevinMarks
and most of my post pages don't have one
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@HongPong
http://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ new Micropub working draft spec released by W3C covers open API standard to create posts, notes photos #indieweb (twtr.io/1CE4avFbCwZ)
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@arirose_ny
#MayTheFourth be with the #Indieweb :) ( http://indieberger.mediaberger.com/note/may-the-fourth--19/ ) (twtr.io/1CE3kihKx54)
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gRegorLove
Ok, picoFeed gets the authorship correct for aaronpk now
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aaronpk
nice
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gRegorLove
Next thing I'm thinking about is parsing the language of an h-feed. Guessing that's going to be tricky.
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tantek
gRegorLove: does picofeed implement all of /authorship then?
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gRegorLove
tantek: Not yet. I'm working on it
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gRegorLove
It should be easy to add everything except for #4 since I can mostly use the code I wrote for ProcessWire Webmention
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gRegorLove
This also depends on the project accepting my PR. They seemed open to the idea, though.
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tantek
what is picofeed?
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Loqi
picoFeed is a PHP library to parse and write feeds, used in Miniflux https://indiewebcamp.com/picoFeed
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tantek
what is Miniflux?
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Loqi
Miniflux is minimalist feed reader software https://indiewebcamp.com/Miniflux
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tantek
neat
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KevinMarks
interesting https://play.google.com/music/podcasts/publish?u=0#
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gRegorLove
I think Spotify and Pandora (probably others) have been doing similar
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[shaners]
aaronpk tantek et al: Any idea how / where the current IWC logo is licensed?
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[benatwork]
KevinMarks: the sooner someone topples the iTunes podcast db the better
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aaronpk
IIRC it's CC0 by virtue of being uploaded to the wiki directly
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aaronpk
would be good to make that explicit on /logo
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[shaners]
aaronpk: That’s certainly implied. But unless Crystal uploaded it to the wiki, it’s technically *not* CC0.
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[shaners]
By implicit copyright applied at the time of creation
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[shaners]
aaronpk: Can you ping Beasley to see if she has any of the original authoring files for the logo. For posterity.
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aaronpk
i believe the svg on the wiki is the closest thing we have to the source
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KevinMarks
svg++
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Loqi
svg has 8 karma
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gRegorLove
FB messaging is so weird to me. The whole adding to conversation / leaving conversation stuff
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tantek
messenger groups?
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gRegorLove
I guess. The buttons refer to them as conversations.
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gRegorLove
I got invited to one apparently after it started, so can't see the original comments, just everyone being excited about something.
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gRegorLove
And I'm one of 60 people. It's like an annoying reply-all email thread, but I have no context.
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gRegorLove
"invited". It's just added -- auto-subscribed
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tantek
haha yeah more like "added"
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gRegorLove
Maybe these things work better on the apps; I've never tried them. I find the web version a clumsy interface
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tantek
as far as webchat UIs go, I've been pretty impressed
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tantek
it has the whole (...) typing indicator and everything
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gRegorLove
Ah, I don't use the chat
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gRegorLove
It's just another inbox for me to forget about, basically :)
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tantek
it's the same thing
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tantek
chat / messenger
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gRegorLove
Just discovered a message from December.
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gRegorLove
I have "Chat (Off)" in the lower right, a collapses popover
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gRegorLove
s/collapses/collapsed/
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Loqi
gRegorLove meant to say: I have "Chat (Off)" in the lower right, a collapsed popover
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tantek
ah ok - if you turn that on, it becomes a realtime UI to the same messages
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tantek
it's not a separate thing
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tantek
60 person chats are not very useful
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tantek
I usually leave those very quickly
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gRegorLove
I think I've seen the ... indicator you're referring to in messages, if we both happen to be on at the same time.
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tantek
unless they're have a very specific topic (e.g. #indiewebcamp :) )
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tantek
the FB Messenger iOS mobile app is pretty slick too. it launches very quickly (e.g. compared to Gtalk, Skype), is fairly responsive, and lets you make audio/video *calls*
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[kevinmarks]
It's more that 60 person chats you all got arbitrarily added to are a problem
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[kevinmarks]
Rather than rolling conversations
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tantek
kevinmarks the other "many person chat" antipattern I feel like we have both experienced was what some of the management at T'rati used to do
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kylewm
I keep getting added to Facebook groups I don't want to be in
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tantek
>:D
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tantek
kylewm: in other news, thanks for the JSON viewer test case - added to bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1268779
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kylewm
Cool cool
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tantek
kylewm did you follow the conversation yesterday with mblaney re: tombstones, u-uid matching?
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tantek
starting here: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-03#t1462334946923
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tantek
I'm thinking of implementing dt-deleted tombstones, as well as u-uid post IDs *without* the slug, so that even if I update the slug (or delete the post, blanking the slug), the post ID stays the same.
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kylewm
Yes more or less
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tantek
the use-case is for a /reader to automatically update its display of feed items to remove deleted items
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kylewm
That makes sense I think
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tantek
ok cool, that's enough verification for me to write it up as a brainstorm (before I implement)
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tantek
it does seem to add more weight to the "don't use slugs as essential parts of your permalinks" design preference for /URL_design
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tantek
oh look, 5 min to HWC - I should go downstairs and setup :)
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[benatwork]
+1,000,000 to don’t use slugs (sad sigh)
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tantek
slugs are fine as optional aspects of permalinks you redirect to
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[benatwork]
Right. But don’t use slugs as canonical identifiers
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[benatwork]
Cool URIs might not change, but 99% of URIs are decidedly uncool
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[kevinmarks]
I'm running a bit late - train notionally gets in at 6:27 so I'll be about 10-15 mins behind
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[kevinmarks]
Also, slugs are a bit of a problem for private posts
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[kevinmarks]
You need to make them articles with anodyne titles on both wp and known
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[benatwork]
+1. My attitude was to not make a distinction between removed pages and 404s, for privacy reasons, but I’m leaning towards tombstoning as an approach now
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[kevinmarks]
I need to write up CTHULU vs CRUD
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gRegorLove
Oh yeah, Happy Star Wars HWC Day
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[benatwork]
kevinmarks: please please please use that title
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tantek
kevinmarks, don't forget CDURU: http://tantek.com/2016/093/t1/indieweb-micropub-incrementalism-cduru
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] Based on #Indieweb #Micropub experience, #CRUD is an anachronism.
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tantek
HWC SF is good to go, projection setup verified
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tantek
How's LA and PDX doing?
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[kevinmarks]
Yes, it's a follow up to that
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[kevinmarks]
Delete is not enough to propagate
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tantek
kevinmarks, for a public API yeah, but for client-server private API it may be
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AndChat748001
see you SF folks tonight (IRC RSVP)
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AndChat748001
(wow, that's the least useful username ever. This is npdoty.name.)
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[shaners]
LA starts at 630
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tantek
nice
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tantek
npdoty what client are you using?
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tantek
kevinmarks, two key differences between CDURU and your CTHULU
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tantek
1. CDURU actually models what Micropub does today in terms of API actions. CTHULU is a proposed model (maybe something will model after it someday, but nothing does today)
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AndChat748001
AndChat is a mobile, Android IRC client
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tantek
2. CDURU is more unique for web search results. Good luck getting up there in search results for CTHULU!
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@CaptainKurtis
RT @HongPong For better less corporate-rekt internets Portland OR peeps plz check #indieweb summit June 3-5 2016 http://2016.indieweb.org cc @rechelon (twtr.io/1CETubJCAJf)
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@domenicoperri
#USERMEDIA domenicoperri starred aaronpk/webmention https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention #S42AT #invispide https://twitter.com/domenicoperri/status/728022667668815872/photo/1 (twtr.io/1CETYN_gZHs)
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kylewm
aaronpk: fyi, broken image on https://aaronparecki.com/2013/10/13/4/realtime-indieweb-comments
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Realtime IndieWeb Comments
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tantek
wonders if anyone else has gotten realtime indieweb comments to work
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tantek
considers hacking up tombstone prototype support in his h-feed
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tantek
I'm thinking a tombstone h-entry needs nothing more than u-url (and u-uid if different) and dt-deleted.
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tantek
And perhaps for nicer display, SHOULD have p-name e.g. "Gone." and maybe p-content also "This post is gone."
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tantek
anything else?
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tantek
thinking of putting those into empty <data> elements
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[kevinmarks]
Voxpelli's tool does real-time
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tantek
<data class="p-name" value="Gone."></data>
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tantek
getting started here at HWC SF
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[shaners]
Looks like LA HWC is a club of one this week
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[shaners]
The biggness of the city makes meetups difficult
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tantek
https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160504/
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Micropub
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npdoty
q+ on wide review of Webmention and security/privacy issues
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tantek
https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160429/
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Webmention
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npdoty
q-
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tantek
note: https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160429/#security-considerations
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Webmention
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tantek
benwerd: has two things
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tantek
one that he did
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tantek
one that he's doing
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tantek
thing he did, every page of his site has the new <meta http-equiv="Status" content="..." />
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tantek
the other thing he's playing with
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tantek
some people don't want a blog, just want a simple page
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tantek
single page sites are popular in China apparently
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tantek
just something where you can type in your name etc.
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tantek
something like an aboutme page
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tantek
npdoty: what's the use-case for the meta status?
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tantek
benwerd: static hosting
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tantek
so you can have a page that represents a 404, or a deleted, 410
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tantek
(KevinMarks arrives)
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tantek
npdoty: I've got something I'm working on
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tantek
I've been thinking about ephemerality
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tantek
of a URL
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tantek
there was sometime I wanted to show
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tantek
like academic writing
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tantek
I wanted to show a paper I was working on
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tantek
but the paper is not finished, and not to be made public, may have things I'm not supposed to be publishing on the web
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tantek
but if I put a link on the IRC channel it gets archive
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tantek
my idea: how about URL that says you can archive the URL, but it will only work for the next hour
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npdoty
https://github.com/npdoty/ephemerurl
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tantek
so I did a little PHP to implement this (^^^)
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tantek
so for any URL on my site, I can change it to add /until730pm and that will give me back a new short URL with a random ID on the end
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npdoty
https://npdoty.name/u/cudo
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tantek
in the next 15 min it will redirect
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tantek
but after 7pm the URL is gone
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @npdoty: so I make a new short url with some random address like https://npdoty.name/writing/craftsman/ that will expire in 15 minutes (twtr.io/1CEYx6H7hS8)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @npdoty: Implemented in a little php, I can now change the URL to include /until-730pm, and that will give back a new short URL (twtr.io/1CEYvHcWd_f)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @npdoty: how about URL that says you can archive the URL, but it will only work for the next hour (twtr.io/1CEYuHNWxqw)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @npdoty: So it would be useful to have a URL that is only valid for some period of time, e.g. 1 hour. (twtr.io/1CEYsQjhAh8)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @npdoty: I do a lot of academic writing; I want to share my writing of incomplete drafts that are not ready to be public (twtr.io/1CEYpzj6gd8)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @npdoty: The last couple of days, I've been thinking about ephemerality, in particular ephemerality of a URL. (twtr.io/1CEYmoBX8aC)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @t: There's no standard way to statically archive a page's return code. The more I'm thinking about it,maybe incl all the headers (twtr.io/1CEYhRTH4dR)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @t: A lot of people have static hosting like GitHub pages, which makes it hard to do things like return "410 GONE" for deletes (twtr.io/1CEYYYz_xGp)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @npdoty: What's the reasoning behind the http-equiv stuff? @benwerd: means static sites are not penalized in webmention protocol (twtr.io/1CEYTyTZGaE)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @benwerd: So I'm kinda working on a little version of a single page generator that helps you set it up, also gives you a zip. (twtr.io/1CEYQpKJWY_)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @benwerd: Another I'm sort of playing with, some people don't want to have a blog, just want a page about them... (twtr.io/1CEYHL5QKQp)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @benwerd: 2 things. the first, every single page of my site now has the meta http-equiv tag version of the HTTP response codes. (twtr.io/1CEYFb_rbtL)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @npdoty: I wanted to ask about doing a security review of the Webmention spec (twtr.io/1CEY9P1DNuw)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @t: Webmention spec has reached 0 open issues, is basically ready to go from Working Draft to Candidate Recommendation (twtr.io/1CEY2KDFJ70)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @t: (twtr.io/1CEXxtQYaZL)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @t: @aaronpk has published a new version of the W3C Micropub spec: https://t.co/xCHoj9rG15. now 3 impls that Delete and Update (twtr.io/1CEXxr0CEiD)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @t: welcome to the homebrew website club, May the 4th Be With You edition! (twtr.io/1CEXtGCxhYY)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Micropub is a W3C working draft for a standard API that posts content to a domain. https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ #indieweb #socialmedia #openweb" by Ben Werdmüller http://werd.io/2016/micropub-is-a-w3c-working-draft-for-a-standard-api
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kylewm
handing off scribe duties to KevinMarks
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KevinMarks
I'll take an archive
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KevinMarks
was that stuff before I arrived?
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@IMJACKTG
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @dariusdunlap: you might have a need where you want to send it out to certain people but only to you afterwards (twtr.io/1CE_JPmauoc)
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@IMJACKTG
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: expiring content is useful - it doesn't look like noise in your stream later - like future bar plans (twtr.io/1CE_JNCjxPC)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: for stuff that is short term you block search engines, if it's longterm you may want more (twtr.io/1CE_Eoc8Pfo)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: should you block search engines from ephemeral posts? (twtr.io/1CE_53jny_f)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: you could also use this for a deadman switch style post that appears after a time (twtr.io/1CE_3AmapyR)
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@sikkdays
Edmonton really needs an IndieWebCamp or Homebrew Website Club. http://indiewebcamp.com/ A focus on open, rather than $tartups. (twtr.io/1CE_1SnZbmw)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: you could also set the published time in the future to create ephemeral posts (twtr.io/1CEZz19kggL)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @dariusdunlap: you might have a need where you want to send it out to certain people but only to you afterwards (twtr.io/1CEZrKu8yak)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: expiring content is useful - it doesn't look like noise in your stream later - like future bar plans (twtr.io/1CEZobgwJZc)
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@IMJACKTG
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @npdoty: if I give out a capability URL like this, then you still have the abiilty to resolve it (twtr.io/1CEZnNonLTj)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: do I want to set the delete time to 0, or do I want to set a deleted date so I can undo it (twtr.io/1CEZjTo8W_i)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @npdoty: is it a proper delete? if there's ever a timezone bug will it reappear. (twtr.io/1CEZh47oiaU)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: what I realised was that I can set the deleted date in the future so it would vanish like an indie snapchat (twtr.io/1CEZeZe3_pb)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: I was hacking in a bar with @benwerd to get deleted working - I added a dt-deleted date to hide the post (twtr.io/1CEZc4d0MBV)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @npdoty: I do a 307 which is supposed to be temporary redirect, not sue how that differs from 302 (twtr.io/1CEZ__tFkhQ)
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@benwerd
Micropub is a W3C working draft for a standard API that posts content to a domain. https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ #indieweb #socialmedia #openweb (twtr.io/1CEZRMTgoJ9)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @npdoty: if I give out a capability URL like this, then you still have the abiilty to resolve it (twtr.io/1CEZKt0JPvj)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @t: one challenge, I can't tell from looking at the page that it isn't meant to be public (twtr.io/1CEZHnrebKC)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kylewmahan: this is like Flickr guest passes - a short term bypass of a login (twtr.io/1CEZFDGHXaV)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @npdoty: (in re: what if someone archives the final URL?) it's a privacy rather than a security measure, wouldnt share w attacker (twtr.io/1CEZCP5c8G0)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @dariusdunlap: but if I instapaper it, then it gets sent to @pinboard, so it it archived further (twtr.io/1CEZ8cexmak)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @npdoty: yes, so if I trust you but I want it to go away in time form the irc, then I can use this (twtr.io/1CEZ5V9a17C)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: so if someone resolves the short url they can get to the content? (twtr.io/1CEZ01uf9fG)
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@kylewmahan
#indieweb @npdoty: So for example, this URL will only work for the next 15 minutes https://npdoty.name/u/cudo (twtr.io/1CEYzVWb4Uo)
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KevinMarks
is loqi lagged?
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Loqi
grins profusely
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kylewm
KevinMarks: here're the notes from earlier https://gist.github.com/kylewm/d617cb5487cf3638bfb33ee28d4ec733
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: so we create a set of map polygons that are the intersections of the constituency boundaries (twtr.io/1CEaeU3p24o)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: because congressional committees specialise, if you can connect with constituents of the members you can connect (twtr.io/1CEaYjmx3hw)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: if a politician discovers a constituent cares about the issue, they care instantly (twtr.io/1CEaVZgZ3vj)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: so you can make a post that refers to your political constituencies without identifying you (twtr.io/1CEaTDn6sDs)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: politicians are very sensitive to constitutents, so we have a mapping from jurisdictions to a string (twtr.io/1CEaQbwnjMQ)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: I'm building a tool to help you manage politicians (twtr.io/1CEaMMV_RZt)
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@Valerie_Janelle
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: I really like the mute function on twitter but I forget to unmute people whoa re bing noisy for an hour (twtr.io/1CEaGysTKpM)
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@WillaCassandra_
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @kylewmahan: I really like the mute function on twitter but I forget to unmute people whoa re bing noisy for an hour (twtr.io/1CEaGwpUTj0)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kylewmahan: and it mutes him for an hour (twtr.io/1CE_z0JUUo0)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kylewmahan: so I made https://quiettime.xyz/ and I put in @kevinmarks because he is tweeting too much right now (twtr.io/1CE_y7dqVBW)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kylewmahan: I really like the mute function on twitter but I forget to unmute people whoa re bing noisy for an hour (twtr.io/1CE_rSKTapM)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: webpages have cache expiry timestamps as well (twtr.io/1CE_XKyaE81)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @npdoty: email already have expiry headers - not sure anyone uses it (twtr.io/1CE_UZFgG9b)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: if you delete a post and put a tombstone in your feed, how long do you leave it up there? 24 hours? longer (twtr.io/1CE_Q_CCNg4)
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@kylewmahan
@dariusdunlap here's the info on rel=pgpkey -- you can even use it to sign in to indieauth! https://indieauth.com/gpg (twtr.io/1CE_KnLz1L0)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @npdoty: is there a way to tell google that it is volatile? There is a change frequency notation (twtr.io/1CE_KcV46FU)
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tantek
@zoeschiffer do constituents get to see this feedback?
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tantek
KevinMarks: ^^^
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Micropub" https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: we also have a $1000 fund from an anonymous donor to fund underrepresented groups to come (twtr.io/1CEbwSV6w4H)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: the 6th annual indieweb summit in portland is at http://2016.indieweb.org - buy a ticket for $5 or send an indie RSVP for free (twtr.io/1CEbsGiYdUG)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: Also, this weekend is the second Indiewebcamp Dusseldorf, which has about 60 people coming (twtr.io/1CEbmKoxoo0)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: if you want to implement a deleted post (twtr.io/1CEbj0pYsq8)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: so the slug should not be part of the unique identifier (twtr.io/1CEbedP6hqf)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: if you delete a post you shouls probably delete a slug - the part of the url that has words from the post (twtr.io/1CEbcx7BdNw)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: I have a small demo that is only working on my laptop - this is a deleted post on my site (twtr.io/1CEbaNsrogb)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: a previous thought along these lines: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2002/08/blogthevote2002usa.html (twtr.io/1CEbXby4gTU)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: we could aggregate this for the constituents as well as the politicians - so they are tracking numbers too (twtr.io/1CEbQ45iLbH)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @ZoeSchiffer: do constituents get to see this feedback? (twtr.io/1CEbMSzD77j)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: instead of the politicians being the owner of the district, theya re the agent of the voter (twtr.io/1CEbL8rNJx4)
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@Nadreck
RT @benwerd Micropub is a W3C working draft for a standard API that posts content to a domain. https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ #indieweb #socialmedia #openweb (twtr.io/1CEbG0ZVFXD)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: every local secretary of state maintains the voter file of addresses of registered voters and party affiliation (twtr.io/1CEbF4285gL)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: so far it's been impossible to be effective politically without exposing your address (twtr.io/1CEbBs3ybeU)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @benwerd: you could also make this use indieauth to connect your website with your location zone (twtr.io/1CEb7sh2op5)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: if we have your address, we can get the latlong, and then resolve to a constituency powerzone string (twtr.io/1CEazJySe_Q)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: politicians love twitter because it lets them be broadcasters, we could give a backchannel that points to constituencies (twtr.io/1CEaw7PG43C)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: if you go to http://newgov.net/demomap/index.html you can find the powerzone for your address (twtr.io/1CEaqL_CmiD)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @brittb: I had to draw a boxes an arrows diagram to understand this - I want to see if people want this represented (twtr.io/1CEamacMPuj)
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Jfrndz.com * uploaded "[[File:05042016HWCSF groupphoto.JPG]]": Group photo of the May 04, 2016 Homebrew Website Club
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Jfrndz.com * uploaded a new version of "[[File:05042016HWCSF groupphoto.JPG]]"
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GWG
I have booked tickets to Portland
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jfrndz.com
edited /events/2016-05-04-homebrew-website-club (+263) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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@jimpick
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the 6th annual indieweb summit in portland is at http://2016.indieweb.org - buy a ticket for $5 or send an indie RSVP for free (twtr.io/1CEc7oK6HXj)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club SF : http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-05-04.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/notes-from-tonights-homebrew-website-club-sf-hwc2016-05-04html-indieweb
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gRegorLove
Yay, GWG!
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gRegorLove
When do you arrive?
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GWG
midnight Thursday night.
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gRegorLove
Ouch
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GWG
gRegorLove: Why ouch?
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gRegorLove
Just a late flight. That's 3am your time.
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gRegorLove
Maybe you're a night owl :)
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GWG
gRegorLove: Look up the choices for nonstops between JFK and Portland
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@kevinmarks
Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club SF : http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-05-04.html #indieweb (twtr.io/1CEdvA7TDvC)
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@veganstraightedge
Tonight at Homebrew Website Club LA, I added /new to @DarkMatterAppCo to publish any post type from one page. #indieweb (twtr.io/1CEg2sTXD8G)
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tantek
GWG congrats on getting your flights booked!
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tantek.com
edited /events/2016-05-04-homebrew-website-club (+108) "/* Notes */ Kevin Marks notes! and link to start of meetup in IRC log" (view diff)
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tantek
continuing from https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-04#t1462411882236 - tombstone markup in feed ...
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tantek
something like: <div class="h-entry"><data class="p-name" value="Gone."></data><data class="p-content" value="This post is gone."></data><a href="/2016/123/t3/" class="u-url u-uid"><time class="dt-deleted" datetime="2016-05-03 17:00"></time></a></div>
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[kevinmarks]
http://www.kevinmarks.com/indiebarbie.png
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tantek
so tempted to hotlink that from /Getting_Started
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tantek
I think I'm going to display:none my tombstones because apparently even without content I have CSS which makes space for h-entry elements
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tantek
ok I have in-stream tombstones working locally
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tantek
good evening benwerd
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benwerd
good evening
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Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message on 3/5 at 8:52am: we need an indie event for next week's HWC SF - could one of you add one? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco (already a FB event there) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-05/line/1457196731818
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Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message on 3/21 at 7:58am: I wonder how we could setup an indieweb studio at a university that would embrace a plurality of approaches and avoid the implicit (often academic) silo or monoculture assumptions re: http://werd.io/2016/last-night-i-dreamt-of-an-indieweb-studio-hosted-at http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-21/line/1458572291777
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Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message 1 week ago: I won't be here 2016-06-15 and 29 - could you pick an SF location for those two HWCs? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-15-homebrew-website-club and https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-29-homebrew-website-club ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-30/line/1459371985246
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tantek
uhoh
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benwerd
Oh no
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Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message on 4/3 at 4:55pm: could you post an indie event and FB POSSE copy for https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-04-06-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco and update the page there? Thanks much! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-03/line/1459727714282
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benwerd
As discussed at Homebrew tonight: https://github.com/idno/Known/pull/1426
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tantek
my sad pleas
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benwerd
I apologize
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tantek
clearly I was using the wrong communication protocol ;)
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tantek
I just got in-stream tombstones for deleted posts working locally
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benwerd
This reminds me to fix benatwork
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tantek
"Can't you hear, can't you hear the tumblr"
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tantek
benwerd, I'm still puzzling over how to make pronouns work internationally
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benwerd
yeah, that's fair
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tantek
I suppose that's why we decided to experiment with p-x-*
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[kevinmarks]
You mean multilingually
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tantek
kevinmarks, it's a usability challenge. I doubt anyone would want to have to specify their pronouns in all langauges
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(or join via IRC, Matrix, or Slack)