#indiewebcamp

2016-08-24

# friedcell joined the channel
# Pierre-O joined the channel
# nitot joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
# cmal joined the channel
# tantek joined the channel
#
tantek
good morning #indieweb!
#
@GlennRicePro
@ChrisAldrich Have you tried Wallabag? I moved to it almost a year ago and never looked back. Works great. #indieweb #instapaper (twtr.io/1GErYafji9s)
#
tantek
what is Wallabag?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Wallabag" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10RD
# arthurspooner joined the channel
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "What if I told you, what @anildash lost* the #indieweb has rebuilt? Find it @IndieWebCamp NYC this weekend: http://2016.indieweb.org/nyc2 And join us in rebuilding the independent web. * http://indieweb.org/lost_infrastructure" on 2016-08-24 http://tantek.com/2016/237/t1/indieweb-rebuilt-it-join-us
#
@t
What if I told you, what @anildash lost* the #indieweb has rebuilt? Find it @IndieWebCamp NYC this weekend: http://tantek.com/2016/237/t1/indieweb-rebuilt-it-join-us (twtr.io/1GEtZqxkgyQ)
#
@oliverg
.@SwieSchnubb @ennolenze Oder die Indieweb-Leute um @kevinmarks +1 ,) (twtr.io/1GEtnZn_4wY)
# arthurspooner joined the channel
#
@matunixe
Ceci est un test de syndication vers Twitter. #Indieweb (twtr.io/1GEumk1T7E8)
#
@t
Thanks @petermolnar for the memeing. #lost #infrastructure #socialmedia #indieweb #rebuilt… http://tantek.com/2016/237/t2/lost-infrastructure-socialmedia-indieweb https://twitter.com/t/status/768410197853212672/photo/1 (twtr.io/1GEuxJoAnxs)
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "Thanks @petermolnar for the memeing. #lost #infrastructure #socialmedia #indieweb #rebuilt #harder #better #stronger #faster (Working on making that #easier instead of harder)" on 2016-08-24 http://tantek.com/2016/237/t2/lost-infrastructure-socialmedia-indieweb
#
@matunixe
Actually testing syndication with Twitter. Huge thanks to @cmal_PP who help me to deal with @withknown. #Indieweb (twtr.io/1GEvgKwpiYG)
# arthurspooner joined the channel
# dns53 joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# tantek joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
# mlncn joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
#
@PetraGregorova
Sadly I can’t make it to @IndieWebCamp NYC this weekend but if you can, you can find out more about it at http://tantek.com/2016/237/t1/indieweb-rebuilt-it-join-us (twtr.io/1GF46fZ83V4)
#
@PetraGregorova
Sadly I can’t make it to @IndieWebCamp NYC this weekend but if you can, you can find out more about it at http://2016.indieweb.org/nyc2 (twtr.io/1GF4NjdvjdR)
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "What Is the Decentralized Web? 24 Experts Break it Down" by Mackenzie Polzin on 2016-08-24 http://infospace.ischool.syr.edu/2016/08/24/decentralized-web-experts/
#
tantek
^^^ interesting /article /repost example
#
tantek
http://infospace.ischool.syr.edu/2016/08/24/decentralized-web-experts/#dd_start in particular:
#
Loqi
[Mackenzie Polzin] What Is the Decentralized Web? 24 Experts Break it Down
#
tantek
"This article is reposted from “What Is the Decentralized Web? 24 Experts Break it Down” written by 2U intern and Syracuse University iSchool Senior Mackenzie Polzin."
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "What Is the Decentralized Web? 24 Experts Break it Down" by Mackenzie Polzin on 2016-08-24 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/ischoolsu/infospace/~3/gwoIHgH-7xk/
#
rhiaro
Aw damnit, that person contacted me three times to answer that 'what is decentralised web' question and I never replied :p
#
rhiaro
I could have been listed as an "expert"
#
@uranther
@eksith check out @indiewebcamp and that's exactly the idea - you own your content. (twtr.io/1GF72QPKL28)
#
rhiaro
/me lols
#
@eksith
@uranther @indiewebcamp This is excellent! (twtr.io/1GF76oveVVc)
# singpolyma joined the channel
#
@uranther
@eksith @indiewebcamp Still working on my making my website the awesome. I believe I can login with IndieAuth now which is cool (twtr.io/1GF7Nhq6UQY)
#
tantek
very cool
#
@kongaloosh
Are there any #indieweb people in #yeg? Are there any local meetups? (http://kongaloosh.com/e/2016/8/24/are-there-any-indieweb-people-in-yeg-are-there-any-local-meetups) (twtr.io/1GFARxistu8)
#
Kongaloosh
^ that
#
tantek
where is yeg?
#
Kongaloosh
YEG is Edmonton, Alberta
#
Kongaloosh
Canadian often use airport codes
#
sneanias
Because obviously, Kongaloosh
# snarfed joined the channel
#
sneanias
Kongaloosh: Je Maple Leafs best team
#
Kongaloosh
sneanias: I thought we agreed it was the orcas?
#
sneanias
What about the Horny Devils?
# friedcell joined the channel
#
GWG
I often use airport codes too
# shiflett joined the channel
#
aaronpk
PDX does too :)
# wolftune joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@cmal_PP
This is an #Indieweb test. (twtr.io/1GFFEWmP6XU)
#
Kongaloosh
sneanias: you're right, they're the best.
#
Kongaloosh
GWG, aaronpk: I find it's the best way since it condenses names into three letters.
#
GWG
Kongaloosh: I teach a lesson on airport codes regularly. When I was a kid and used to take trips, the only thing to read on the plane was the timetable...back when they had printed ones.
#
Kongaloosh
GWG: Hah. personally, I read the safety cards.
#
rascul
heh if i used poe for this area nobody would know what i'm talking about
#
Loqi
rascul: ChrisAldrich left you a message 3 days, 12 hours ago: I'll take you up for keybase; I think I've been in their queue forever...
#
rascul
oh
#
rascul
!tell ChrisAldrich give me an email address to send the keybase invite to
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
GWG
Kongaloosh: We all need hobbies.
#
rascul
normally i sleep while on a plane, otherwise i need to smoke and i can't exactly step outside to do that
#
rascul
although i hear it's fun to do with a parachute
#
Kongaloosh
rascul: or a net
#
GWG
rascul: Southwest used to tell people that the smoking section was on the wing.
#
rascul
GWG i would try that if i had a net to hang out in
#
GWG
rascul: I'd like to see that. It would be interesting
#
rascul
i prefer not flying now though, because tsa
#
Kongaloosh
TSA is an interesting thing. IIRC they often fail when tested.
#
rascul
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater
#
Kongaloosh
a less annoying version of this is lighting
# gRegorLove joined the channel
#
Kongaloosh
adding lighting to parkades and making the elevators more visible from open spaces improves people's feeling of security
#
Kongaloosh
which I think is interesting
#
rascul
also helps see better to unlock the doors
#
sneanias
Kongaloosh: but what if I don't have an airport nearby?
#
sneanias
Anything near me is leftover airstrips from WWII
#
rascul
this halt and catch fire episode, she could just M0 in the init string and the modem wouldn't make all the noises
#
tantek
/me is totally lost, this is #Indieweb right?
#
rascul
not anymore
#
Kongaloosh
sneanias: obv you need a landingstrip in your back-yard
#
rascul
/me remembers about #indieweb-chat
#
GWG
We have indieweb-chat? I'm only in #indiechat
#
Kongaloosh
same
#
tantek
I think most have stuck with #indiechat because inertia which is fine. We have both
# KevinMarks joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
I think once the Slack bridge is going both ways again, we'll move it so #chat on Slack => #indieweb-chat on IRC.
# bkardell joined the channel
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# ChrisAldrich joined the channel
#
aaronpk
👍
# KevinMarks joined the channel
#
cmal
so if somebody has information regarding multi-user Indieauth on Known, consider me interested :)
#
cmal
otherwise I may as well just open an issue and talk about it there :-/
#
rMdes
something is strange with Known and Indiepub, when I log in to https://woodwind.xyz/ with my domain I do find the list of indie blogs I'm following
#
rMdes
but if I log in with my profile URL, it's considered a "new site"
# KevinMarks1 joined the channel
#
ChrisAldrich
rMdes I've had that same issue too with woodwind.xyz
#
Loqi
ChrisAldrich: rascul left you a message 58 minutes ago: give me an email address to send the keybase invite to
#
cmal
maybe because Known precisely relies on Indieauth on the homepage and not on a per-user basis on the profile?
#
ChrisAldrich
I want to say maybe I'd seen it with something else like OwnYourGram too, but it's been a while
# tridnguyen joined the channel
# pl_ joined the channel
#
rMdes
cmal : are you sure your known site config is not set to "single user" ? http://imgur.com/4APqcMQ
#
cmal
yes I am
#
rMdes
might be dumb question but that toggle would make your known site behave like a 1 user site
#
rMdes
laright
#
cmal
yes but it's one a single-user site
#
cmal
from what I read on the issue toggling single user site would make the homepage allow the first admin found (therefore, not me on this instance) to login on IndieAuth
#
cmal
I want every user to be able to login via IndieAuth :)
# snarfed joined the channel
#
rMdes
cmal : I just created a new user on my Known site, then I logged in to Woodwind using indieauth and configured it to use indiepub
#
rMdes
works fine
#
rMdes
it seems I now have 3 users are woodwind : my root domain, my user Rick and my second user rMdes
#
cmal
wait, I don't get it, you're having several users with single-user mode enabled ?
#
rMdes
yup
#
cmal
IF that's the case, what's this single-user mode about anyway?
#
cmal
I thought single-user meant one user, not « have as many users as you like »
#
rMdes
not sure but this is how my blog is configured : single user
#
rMdes
me too
#
cmal
and you can post from all users on your Known and have different silo accounts linked to each? oO
#
cmal
does anybody know what the difference in Known is between single-user and multi-user ?
#
ChrisAldrich
Is it the case that one can have a single user account that's private, but with other user accounts so they can log in and access the content, but not necessarily post?
# KevinMarks joined the channel
#
cmal
my use-case would be more like having everyone post & share & read :)
#
cmal
so rMdes I have different results than you do
#
rMdes
cmal: Yes I can connect twitter or facebook account to my new user
#
rMdes
my second user can connect its own brid.gy, etc..
#
cmal
and indieauth.com ?
#
rMdes
trying now
#
rMdes
also look at the hint near the single user toggle : Is this a single-user site? If so, your profile information will be shown at the top of the homepage.
#
cmal
anyway, I'm gonna go check out the pool my neighbours assembled down in the garden #LifeInASquat :D
#
cmal
see you later :)
#
rMdes
seems like that's what this toggle does before all, if not single user, website does not load the main user jumbotron
#
rMdes
sounds cool ;)
#
ChrisAldrich
rMdes, can one syndicate from one Known site to another? Has anyone done that?
#
rMdes
yes
#
rMdes
ChrisAldrich, https://github.com/mapkyca/KnownKnown
#
rMdes
most up to date list of plugins for Known is here : http://docs.withknown.com/en/latest/plugins/community/
#
ChrisAldrich
I feel like "we" should set up a group Known site for multiple Indieweb users to contribute/syndicate to. It would be a more interesting way to dogfood Known instead of using a google user group/page for dev...
#
rMdes
I completely agree !!!
#
ChrisAldrich
rMdes: I hadn't seen that one, but knew about the list. In fact I did a PR to add something to it a few weeks back.
# snarfed joined the channel
#
rMdes
would love to participate on that, using Known to document Known stuff, help each other in a way that can be searched by others in a open spot
#
ChrisAldrich
I think half the stuff you and I post to our known accounts are Known related.
#
cmal
ChrisAldrich: how about Indienews? https://news.indieweb.org/
#
cmal
I just opened an issue about Indieauth on multi-user Known : https://github.com/idno/Known/issues/1499
#
cmal
see you later peeps :)
#
rMdes
indienews already pick up articles/post we do IF we include the #indieweb tag on it
#
ChrisAldrich
I think of Indienews as a higher level of editorial content... some of what I'm talking about would dilute the signal and only be of interest to known users
#
aaronpk
you do have to explicitly post it to indienews, it's not just picking up the hashtag
#
rMdes
agree, hence I try to not use so much the indieweb tag if it's not general indieweb related and more Known in specific
#
ChrisAldrich
the Indiesyndicate plugin helps to do that, though I've still yet to get it working on my known site
#
rMdes
it's not ? hmm I found one of my post over there but never submitted anything manually to it
#
aaronpk
rMdes: someone else may have submitted it
#
rascul
what is woodwind?
#
Loqi
Woodwind is a minimalist open source indie reader by https://kylewm.com/photo.jpgKyle Mahan https://indieweb.org/Woodwind
#
ChrisAldrich
rMdes, it may be the case that someone bookmarked your post and webmentioned news.indieweb on your behalf.
#
rMdes
in fact I don't really grasp yet how to submit, already read the instructions a few times but some of the vocabulary confuse me
#
rMdes
ahh ok
#
ChrisAldrich
aaronpk jinx
#
rMdes
hmm so sending a post to indienews is just like sending a webmention ?
#
gRegorLove
Yep
#
rMdes
gosh so simple I was confused by the way it's explained, but it's probably just me
#
ChrisAldrich
rMdes, I had to read it 5 times to understand it, and even then...
#
gRegorLove
aaronpk: just noticed http://news.indieweb.org redirects to indieweb.org. Works with the https.
#
rMdes
what do we do if one day there is an army of trolls sending webmentions to indienews ?
# wolftune joined the channel
#
rMdes
ChrisAldrich, maybe we could open a pad and reword it for newbies
#
rMdes
I can't do it now, but I would love to make these concept easier to grasp for new comers
#
ChrisAldrich
There definitely needs to be a set of instructions for Gen2
#
ChrisAldrich
It's on my list of things to better document for the next generation
#
aaronpk
gRegorLove: oops thanks
#
rMdes
aaronpk, what do we do if one day there is an army of trolls sending webmentions to indienews ?
#
aaronpk
ban them with fire
#
rMdes
haha sure but ain't the indienews site going to be spamed like hell ?
#
Loqi
nice
#
bear
that's when we start making Vouch solid :)
#
rMdes
ok now i got it :)
#
rMdes
the Vouch thing would be magic if it worked by domains
#
rMdes
so we could all "vouch" the indieweb current network of sites before the "invasion"
#
ChrisAldrich
We've got the daily vouch mention out of the way early today... :)
# wolftune joined the channel
#
ChrisAldrich
I noticed that in the last two weeks that Disqus started using Akismet for spam...
#
snarfed
ChrisAldrich: "daily vouch mention" lol
#
KevinMarks1
Funny, having an article on fastcompany instead of my site means missing out on webmentions
#
snarfed
honestly we spend a lot of time here on an ongoing basis wringing our hands with "what if spam?!"
#
snarfed
...so it's worth reiterating that we have yet to see a *single* native webmention spam
#
snarfed
good to think about, of course, but probably not worth overthinking it long before it's an actual problem
#
rMdes
reassuring :)
#
snarfed
not to mention that existing anti-spam tools and techniques apply perfectly well to wm spam too
#
rMdes
what I have noticed with my twitter account is there is more & more "tease following" spam on twitter
#
snarfed
vouch is definitely exciting and promising! i'm just glad we don't badly need it yet
#
ChrisAldrich
KevinMarks, I've always wondered about a workflow for Journalists so that they could have their own content on their site, "syndicate" it to the bigger publisher that gets all the traffic, but still have a way to get all the webmention traffic sent back to them from that publisher.
#
rMdes
ChrisAldrich, that would need the bigger publisher to adopt some indieweb protocol right ?
#
snarfed
ChrisAldrich: hmm interesting. sounds like extending salmentions to implement backfeed
#
ChrisAldrich
having that would certainly have a lot more journalists onboarding indieweb....
#
rMdes
that would be so great !!
#
KevinMarks1
the contracts for most of these sites say they have it exclusively
# leg joined the channel
#
KevinMarks1
so it's more that side that would be tricky; some will re-run a post from elsewhere, but a paid article has a different pattern to it
#
ChrisAldrich
It's similar to academics publishing in major journals, but it's common practice for the authors to practice samizdat and keep a copy for themselves on their own site.
#
rMdes
I went to google news lab Hack Hackers connect in Brussels, talked about indieweb to a few journalist in private, they where absolutely not in the mood to have their own publishing spot on the web. I was in a curious place, maybe not the best spot to talk about this
#
ChrisAldrich
Perhaps journalists should ask to keep a copy on their site 3-6 months after initial publication for themselves. The bigger publisher is generally going to get all the traffic anyway.
# rrix joined the channel
#
gRegorLove
The /irc-people list is a fine starting point of domains to accept news.indieweb.org posts from too
#
KevinMarks1
we talked about something like that with Scott Rosenberg - having a way to post on multiple sites wiht preview of how it would look
#
KevinMarks1
also odd ot see the identical tweets because the site's 'tweet this' link has default text in: https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fastcompany.com%2F3063060%2Fa-brief-history-of-the-angry-social-network&src=typd&lang=en
#
KevinMarks1
the discussion wiht Scott was at Hacks hackers in SF
#
gRegorLove
snarfed: We could add a page "native webmention spam" with dfn "As of [date] it doesn't exist." :)
#
aaronpk
/me points out that our wiki has had 0 spam despite being mediawiki which is typically very quickly overrun with spam when it allows public registations
#
snarfed
gRegorLove: iswebmentionspammedyet.com with an rss feed and twitter account :P
#
gRegorLove
Haha
#
aaronpk
"days since last webmention spam"
#
ChrisAldrich
Additionally if the private/public piece can be overcome in a nice way, journalists could publish to their site privately, but still allow webmentions to attach, so they're getting notifications about the conversation directly to their own "hub" instead of having to rely on watching the publisher's site
#
bear
my ops brains cringes at the thought of posting such an invitation on a site
#
snarfed
ChrisAldrich++ for samizdat, great potential name for an indieweb tool/technque
#
Loqi
chrisaldrich has 6 karma (5 in this channel)
#
bear
"days since ..." being the invitation
#
aaronpk
hahaha
#
gRegorLove
Indieweb Safety and Health Administration (ISHA)
#
snarfed
bear++ sadly. we thought about doing a blog post for a recent pen test we did at work, but decided no for that reason :(
#
Loqi
bear has 162 karma (128 in this channel)
#
bear
yea, I squash a lot of blog posts for InfoSec reasons
#
Loqi
*sniff*
#
snarfed
"keep your head down"
#
rMdes
aaronpk, amazing the non-spam
#
ChrisAldrich
KevinMarks, did that discussion get recorded? or is it just the noterlive session you documented?
#
rMdes
but I guess one of the reason spam isn't just around the corner yet might be discretion of these protocols only used by really motivated people, like in this channel :)
#
snarfed
rMdes: yup. adoption rate is key. spammers only target platforms that give them big enough bang for their buck
#
KevinMarks1
just the noterlive I think
#
rMdes
indeed and the day some or one of them realize there is something to tap into, maybe this day things are going to get a bit more spammy
#
snarfed
ChrisAldrich: the backfeed idea for journalists' syndicated copies is great! if you're interested, next step might be to survey the top N big publishers, see what system serves their comments, whether it has an API or is scrapable, and then file bridgy issue(s)
#
ChrisAldrich
KevinMarks, you might appreciate using a Livescribe echo pen (or something similar). It allows recording audio and exporting as .mp3 quickly. Then you could supplement your noterlive sessions with full .mp3 for those that want a deeper dive.
#
rMdes
the only "spam" I get from webmentions is "tease like" from company, products, brands, liking some of my tweets just to get noticed
#
rMdes
they do it on twitter, not aware of the indieweb protocols tied to my twitter posts
#
sknebel
spam? just wait until WMs become popular in Wordpress
#
ChrisAldrich
snarfed, you've probably destroyed all my free time for the rest of the year with that comment. ;)
#
snarfed
ahahaha
#
ChrisAldrich
snarfed: I suspect that even private posts could allow access to bridgy and that by having a rel-syndication link could allow most of the magic to happen?
#
snarfed
obligatory: https://xkcd.com/356/
#
snarfed
ChrisAldrich: wms to private posts may still be a somewhat open problem
#
snarfed
eg how do you do discovery?
#
ChrisAldrich
could the private post do a bridgy publish to notify only bridgy which then stores the url and rel-syndication?
#
snarfed
ChrisAldrich: sure. it'd be nice to find a way that doesn't require bridgy publish though.
#
snarfed
framed another way, how would purely native private post wms work? (ie btw two sites, no bridgy involved)
#
rMdes
/me always assumed private post were....private & would never get interactions backfeeded to the post
#
snarfed
rMdes: nah. you can comment/like non-public FB posts, right?
#
ChrisAldrich
the full content of the post *could* be private but with a notice of the syndication endpoints and the URL should be enough for webmentions to come back to it.
#
rMdes
yes, but if the private post in not sent to FB, only stay on my site, there would be no way for brid.gy to retrieve other users sharing/commenting the link right ?
#
snarfed
some background: https://indieweb.org/private_posts
#
miklb
rMdes I wish the "tease likes" I got were brands, and not fembots
#
snarfed
rMdes: again, start with the pure indieweb case. for native indieweb private posts that some people can read, how can they reply/like/repost via wm? i don't think we entirely know yet
#
snarfed
ChrisAldrich: true! you might have the start of a proposal to add to http://indieweb.org/private_posts :P
#
rMdes
interesting, never thought about these use case
#
aaronpk
i'm still looking for someone who wants to prototype private webmentions with
#
rMdes
the question is also: if the post is private, even if targeted to specific private friends, how to let them know they have something to read ?
#
ChrisAldrich
You're killing me snarfed, but at the end of the day, this is the web I actually want instead of the one I'm stuck with right now.
#
snarfed
ChrisAldrich++
#
miklb
theres a #tagline
# calumryan joined the channel
#
rMdes
one would need to be able to @mention other indieweb users to "share" the private post with them, right ,
#
rMdes
?
#
aaronpk
we've done a few experiments so far
#
snarfed
rMdes: i think same way as with public posts. if they go to your site directly, they'll see the private post if they have access. if they subscribe in a reader, they'll see it if the reader supports private posts. otherwise yes, you can mention them (which wm's their home page)
#
aaronpk
if I send a webmention to your home page but the source URL is private, then you need to know how to authenticate to it in order to fetch the content to process the webmention
#
rMdes
what if the reader support private post but that subscriber is not on the list of "friends" ? he would simply not see it ?
#
Loqi
http://meme.loqi.me/m/4ixpKU4a.jpg
#
aaronpk
one thing at a time :)
# KevinMarks joined the channel
#
rMdes
aaronpk, clearer now, thanks
#
snarfed
rMdes: many of these are open questions. feel free to propose ideas on http://indieweb.org/private_posts#IndieWeb_Examples !
#
aaronpk
definitely add these questions to the wiki page!
#
snarfed
aaronpk: afaik we haven't done much on the inverse yet, right? eg public wm (eg a reply) to a private post
#
rMdes
so auth is a precondition to read private posts
#
snarfed
yes, but how that auth works is still pretty open and site-specific
#
ChrisAldrich
Think of it from a network theory approach: the URLs are nodes and the edges are rel-syndications to other URLs. As long as some central hub can see or be notified about where all the nodes and edges are, the communication system should be operable. If you hide either of the nodes or the edges, you'll have problems.
#
aaronpk
right. there's a dozen ways it *could* work, and we won't know which is best/easiest until we try
#
rMdes
if you need someone to experiment on some private post, count me in !
#
aaronpk
one of the ways we tried a while ago was by sending encrypted messages in public
#
ChrisAldrich
the issue becomes salmentions for really huge networks as the number of nodes expands exponentially.
#
gRegorLove
aaronpk: I'm interested in prototyping private wm
#
rMdes
aaronpk, encrypted msg in public that only specific "friends" with the pgp key would decrypt and read ?
#
aaronpk
https://aaronparecki.com/2014/02/26/14/gpg
#
Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] @sandeepshetty Here's an experiment: -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: GnuPG v1 hQEMA5a2Qi/3GPL9AQf/UPDRTBjkCvN8eJPSpcuqsw3bu7tBL5NtwcqArRH3PGiG E+iEigjZDzsvZSUGEcJPPQFeveyFKzkrtAhtImFxGoZfHwLizetJIr3X8AUFO4+B lMCQQijUGFDe0rc1FbYHCZFsrV2jjgtvpO...
#
aaronpk
haha thanks loqi
#
snarfed
ChrisAldrich: huh. for your syndication example? not really. i don't really see that the number of places i syndicate posts to would expand exponentially
#
Loqi
nice
#
snarfed
(key point is that your graph is just for a single original post and its syndicated copies, *not* a graph across multiple posts or people)
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
rMdes
using keybase, ohhh that's neat
#
aaronpk
gRegorLove: let's schedule a private webmentionathon!
#
aaronpk
rMdes: only "using" keybase in that it made all the gpg stuff easier
#
rMdes
i can imagine
#
ChrisAldrich
snarfed: I was thinking about the bigger case of multiple posts, people, and connected cross conversations.
#
snarfed
ChrisAldrich: sure, but indieweb protocols/techniques don't currently require a central hub for the graph, or to traverse it too deeply
#
rMdes
aaronpk, was keybase also used to encrypt the post ?
#
snarfed
salmentions are the only time we go even more than one hop afaik
#
rMdes
or just to deliver it to "keybase friends" ?
#
aaronpk
rMdes: yes, i used the keybase client to encrypt the post, but it's just a GPG tool at that point
#
aaronpk
everything else was normal webmention flow
#
rMdes
ok, very nice
#
ChrisAldrich
snarfed: I think you're right, and it's likely the reason that not many have salmentions yet.
#
aaronpk
to be clear, i don't think this is a very good solution, but we tried it
#
rMdes
what is salmentions ?
#
Loqi
Salmentions are a protocol extension to Webmention to propagate comments and other interactions upstream by sending a webmention from a response to the original post when the response itself receives a response (comment, like, etc.) https://indieweb.org/Salmentions
#
rMdes
geez that's a hell of chunk of info to digest :)
#
snarfed
yup. salmentions may be the most complicated thing we've come up with so far
#
snarfed
(still not as complicated as salmon though! :P)
#
rMdes
so in short salmentions allow to keep track of response to response from an original webmentions ? correct ?
#
snarfed
right. they let the propagate upstream. hence salmon :P
# tantek joined the channel
#
rMdes
don't laugh at me, but I was thinking a few month back, who the hell found that name ?
#
rMdes
it stayed mysterious to me until now :)
#
rMdes
but before having salmentions right, we still need to be able to thread response/comments correctly right ?
# Pierre-O joined the channel
#
rMdes
otherwise the response to response + the usual webmentions + the native comments will look like a mess, correct ?
#
snarfed
rMdes: http://www.salmon-protocol.org/ (enjoy :P)
#
gRegorLove
nice-to-have, but not a requirement
#
snarfed
rMdes: yes. there's info on threading on the wiki, but so far it's generally been implemented per site
#
snarfed
(you indicate that a reply is replying to an existing comment with u-in-reply-to that comment)
#
aaronpk
you don't need to support threading to support salmention
#
rMdes
okey got it now
#
snarfed
(also https://snarfed.org/2012-07-14_salmon_for_facebook_twitter_and_google_plus , related project of mine before i discovered the indieweb)
#
Loqi
[Ryan Barrett] Salmon for Facebook, Twitter, and Google+
#
rMdes
so threading is more for the sake of following the convo from usual webmentions
#
rMdes
I remember those years, when Disqus landed, then LiveFyre and others; thinking to unify comments, while the only thing they did was to privatize them
# Pierre-O1 joined the channel
#
rMdes
damned, you guys/gals are busy on this since a while !! congrats for driving the boat this long, it's amazing !
#
ChrisAldrich
rMdes: If you know (or can remember) all the prior URLs in a conversation, you can add them all in one of your Known posts to which is essentially doing salmention manually.
#
rMdes
that can be handy for replying to many people on the same convo on twitter
#
rMdes
taking all the url's and replying only once to all of them with all the space one need
#
snarfed
my low tech approach when i post a threaded reply is to u-in-reply-to both the parent comment and the original post
#
gRegorLove
Interesting. adactio has a comment from storify.com https://adactio.com/journal/11102#comment36611
#
Loqi
[Jeremy Keith] Why do pull quotes exist on the web?
#
gRegorLove
Wonder if that was manual or how it got there.
#
ChrisAldrich
I also occasionally do what snarf just mentioned as notifying all the interstitial pieces seems overkill and generally they all link back to the original anyway.
#
rMdes
gRegorLove, seems like Adam Banks embedded tweet on the storify made this
#
gRegorLove
Right, but storify doesn't send wm
#
gRegorLove
Someone might have used the manual form on the post.
#
rMdes
that's what I was going to reply, hehe
#
cmal
re
# calumryan joined the channel
#
miklb
heh, jekyll developers working on the GUI are confused by the concept of a note and explicitly not having a title
# AngeloGladding joined the channel
# [barryf] joined the channel
#
[barryf]
We're working on our RSVP markup so we can both RSVP to the events.
#
Loqi
[barryf]: tantek left you a message on 2016-06-15 at 4:31pm UTC: forgot to mention at HWC London - MozFest is coming up (once again in Ravensbourne), submit session/speaking proposals: https://mozillafestival.org/proposals ASAP!
# snarfed joined the channel
#
ChrisAldrich
AngeloGladding You're coming to HWC tonight, right? I'm hoping to make all/part of quiet writing, but will definitely be there for the meeting proper.
#
snarfed
barryf++
#
Loqi
barryf has 2 karma
# barryf joined the channel
#
@calum_ryan
August HWC London with @barryf #indieweb https://twitter.com/calum_ryan/status/768511228817838080/photo/1 (twtr.io/1GFX2kTJ8ML)
#
barryf
Thanks snarfed
#
barryf
I think calumryan is also almost there with his RSVPs.
#
barryf
We now also have calumryan's indie event page for HWC London. Not many attendees (yet) but we're getting there!
#
voxpelli
miklb: too bad both Jekyll and Wordpress are making API-driven editors, but none of them building them on a standard or otherwise collaborating :)
#
Loqi
voxpelli: miklb left you a message 19 hours, 51 minutes ago: just starting to look this over, wonder if it could be useful for micropub at some point https://jekyll.github.io/jekyll-admin/
#
miklb
voxpelli truth
#
voxpelli
Decoupling of editor and front end tools is a major win of Micropub
# bashrc joined the channel
# friedcell joined the channel
#
miklb
I dropped a link to the wiki page on micropub in a issue thread, maybe it will catch someone's eye
# nitot joined the channel
#
@pumpkiny
“The lost infrastructure of social media.” by @anildash https://medium.com/@anildash/the-lost-infrastructure-of-social-media-d2b95662ccd3#.gx1gmp2tf x-ref #indieweb #openweb (twtr.io/1GFZmcjtc40)
#
snarfed
voxpelli miklb fwiw there are a handful of editor <-> server posting APIs that are ~10y old, from the initial blogging era
#
snarfed
metaweblog, wp's xml-rpc thing, atom, etc
#
snarfed
micropub is awesome! but the decoupling part isn't new
#
miklb
I'm familiar with them, yes
#
AngeloGladding
ChrisAldrich I'll be there extra early today. See you later.
#
cmal
what is hosting?
#
Loqi
Web hosting can be the primary regular cost in maintaining an IndieWeb site; this page lists several options from free on up depending on your publishing needs, like a static, shared, private, or dedicated server https://indieweb.org/hosting
#
miklb
WP's bastardization all but crushed any adherence to a standard IMO
#
tantek
miklb which?
#
tantek
snarfed, indeed, there are a bunch of key new things, like use of Oauth instead of user/pass
#
miklb
it's been a while since I've delved into it, but they don't adhere to any standards in xml-rpc.
#
snarfed
miklb: not true. WP actually supports (supported) a number of those old standards
#
snarfed
they're gradually phasing them out now though, since most of them are dying/dead and often insecure
#
miklb
supported but required hacks to work. Ask Daniel Jalkuit and MarsEdit
#
snarfed
maybe! i've used a few of the standards WP supports, though, and they've worked fine
#
cmal
> owning the URLs
#
tantek
miklb - not necessarily WP's fault. MetaWeblog was never properly specified
#
tantek
hence why I cited the Wikipedia page
#
snarfed
obligatory: https://xkcd.com/927/
#
cmal
I guess that's a weird argument regarding self-hosting when in reality we don't own anything and root DNS can decide we don't have a domain anymore for whichever reason (political, financial)
#
tantek
when you have a crappy standard, you get non-interop, implementation specific hacks, interop one implementation at a time etc.
#
tantek
snarfed, surprisingly this is an area where nearly all options died
#
snarfed
tantek: true!
#
tantek
so now there's one "solid" choice, Micropub
#
snarfed
cmal: yup. often discussed here. self-hosting everything yourself, down to the datacenter, physical machine, power, cooling, etc is impractical
#
tantek
actually incubated, interoperably implemented, specified in enough detail to be a W3C Candidate Recommendation
#
tantek
that's a pretty big deal
#
tantek
Micropub has more implementations than Atompub ever did
#
snarfed
hence we don't emphasize self-hosting everything, just starting with the domain
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
cmal
snarfed: I guess it can be seen as different approaches to the same problem
#
miklb
atompub was difficult to implement
#
tantek
cmal, how deep do you want to go?
#
tantek
going to make your own hardware? asics?
#
miklb
we tried adding that to Habari, but finding clients that supported was difficult
#
snarfed
mmm diminishing return licious
#
tantek
miklb yup. because it was specified first, implemented later
#
cmal
but I feel like the "web hosting" page might be giving just a little bit too much importance to URLs
#
tantek
really should not have ever been an IETF RFC
#
tantek
Atompub had rough consensus but failed "running code"
#
cmal
tantek: collaboratively, sure, in the meantime self-hosting is already a step closer
#
cmal
self-hosting with only free sotware is yet another step, and having a cooperatively-run ISP (we have a bunch of them in France) is even better
#
cmal
(I was just surprised not to find a page regarding self-hosting on the wiki and then seeing a very poor argument *against* it on "web hosting")
#
snarfed
cmal: different people/groups have different goals. here specifically we focus on owning your content more than aggressive self-hosting.
#
snarfed
KevinMarks++ for contributing to bridgy! https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/pull/695
#
Loqi
kevinmarks has 245 karma (192 in this channel)
#
cmal
snarfed: I'm not proposing any "aggressiveness" (such as removing information about VPS providers or anything), but maybe I'll try and add something about self-hosting somewhere
#
snarfed
cmal: definitely!
#
snarfed
(we generally avoid politics and ideology here, but useful information like that is great!)
#
cmal
do you think it would make sense to break the "web hosting" page into : hosting (list of hosting possibilities : dedicated, VPS, self-hosted) and web hosting (with information about nginx/others, and shared hosting solutions)
#
cmal
I feel like it's confusing to have both on the same page
#
singpolyma
snarfed: haha. indieweb *is* an ideology ;)
#
Loqi
hehe
#
snarfed
singpolyma: lol. true! ok we try to avoid *other* politics/ideology. https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct#Respect
#
aaronpk
cmal: we explicitly start with owning your domain, and leave out the things underneath it. there are plenty of other groups working on alternatives to DNS and the other underlying bits, that's just not something that indieweb focuses on.
#
tantek
cmal *definitely* please document the kind of self-hosting you're talking about
#
tantek
it sounds like another way to increase independence
#
tantek
but yeah, we punt on DNS replacements (for now) because they tend to be non-practical / academic / experimental (namecoin etc. type stuff)
#
tantek
(also, too plumbing centric a distraction, and that's explicitly a non-priority in comparison to UX)
#
tantek
per /principles
#
cmal
tantek: for once, I was not ranting about DNS today, I was just surprised to see what appeared to be an argument AGAINST self-hosting on the wiki (like « meh, nobody cares because you own the URL ») :)
#
tantek
to be clear, there are other groups working on replacing DNS, and we're ok with that
#
aaronpk
cmal: more like as long as you own the URL you can move your backend hosting as needed
#
snarfed
aaronpk++
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 1104 karma (423 in this channel)
#
cmal
so nobody sees any problem with splitting web hosting into seperate hosting and web hosting pages ?
#
tantek
the assumption is that such groups will have to have some sort of interop / transition strategy, so we can "not worry about" that layer for now
#
cmal
tantek: that's a fair assumption ;)
# friedcell1 joined the channel
#
cmal
also I would move personal cloud on a dedicated page (as you can setup one on a VPS, dedicated, at home… so it's independant from the hosting provided)
#
aaronpk
what is a personal cloud?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "personal cloud" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10RK
# KevinMarks1 joined the channel
#
cmal
http://indieweb.org/hosting#Personal_Clouds
#
KevinMarks1
for some thinking on that, see my svgur.com/dweb demo
#
KevinMarks1
(on ways round DNS/domain dependency)
#
aaronpk
cmal: it looks like that section is describing physical hardware you have at home?
#
aaronpk
rather than something like owncloud
#
cmal
I don't know all the links but Cozy Sandstorm and ArkOS are all software solution
#
cmal
the introduction is introducing computing boards like Raspberry Pi etc… but I don't really see why (although I don't find that totally irrelevant)
#
KevinMarks1
https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/331851452953796608
#
@kevinmarks
#iiw “Personal Cloud” makes me think of Eeyore @dsearls https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJr5I2QCIAAQrLl.png (twtr.io/YvkUKnAYPU)
#
aaronpk
lol
#
KevinMarks1
https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/331851452953796608
#
@kevinmarks
#iiw “Personal Cloud” makes me think of Eeyore @dsearls https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJr5I2QCIAAQrLl.png (twtr.io/YvkUKnAYPU)
#
cmal
I mean there is a trend of people using such devices to self-host at home (even with outages on batteries) for their low consumption profile
#
cmal
(it's definitely a thing called The Internet Brick in France)
#
KevinMarks1
er https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/331852328774815744
#
@kevinmarks
#iiw another “Personal Cloud” advocate - Pigpen from Peanuts @dsearls https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJr5707CUAA9Ju1.png (twtr.io/Yvkn65xUp4)
#
cmal
but apart from this use-case I know many people using a VPS somewhere with a "personal cloud" on it
#
cmal
(like YUNoHost, etc…)
#
KevinMarks1
isn't that what Johannes was working on before?
#
aaronpk
i'd say make a page for personal cloud, and then leave the stuff on web hosting that talks about hosting on physical hardware at home
#
cmal
so you don't think it's worth making a difference between web hosting and ANYTHING-ELSE hosting? (especially on a page called web hosting)
#
aaronpk
i don't understand the question
# KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
cmal
well I think having information about VPS, dedicated and self-hosting, and PAAS on a page called "web hosting" is really confusing
#
aaronpk
the goal of the web hosting page is to provide options for how to host a website
#
cmal
web hosting should cover issues related to hosting web services only, which is usually decoupled from the hosting perspectives
#
KevinMarks1
no, those are choices on ways to host a website, thats OK
#
cmal
ok :)
#
aaronpk
what are web services?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "web services" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10RL
#
KevinMarks1
hosting other aspects of a domain may be worth separate pages, but they end being connected
#
cmal
sure, it just sounded logical to me for web hosting to be (semantically-speaking) a sub-issue of "hosting" in general, and having "web hosting" have two categories : 1. Setting up a webserver on your server 2. Shared hosting / custom domain silo / etc.
#
cmal
but I guess we come from different backgrounds and we have very different approaches to the question :)
#
aaronpk
just keep in mind the focus and scope of indieweb
#
aaronpk
it's not meant to be a wikipedia of everything about the internet
#
tantek
stay away from "web services" please
#
tantek
or rather
#
cmal
what is web services?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "web services" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10RM
#
tantek
what is WS-deathstar?
#
Loqi
For reference: WS-Deathstar [1][2][3][4][5], e.g.: https://indieweb.org/WS_Deathstar
#
tantek
web services are /WS_Deathstar
#
GWG
tantek, I was thinking about this weekend
#
Loqi
ok
#
tantek
GWG when do you get into town?
#
GWG
tantek, I live in NYC.
#
tantek
heh
#
GWG
Admittedly, people in Queens often refer to Manhattan as 'the city'
#
tantek
that's what I thought
#
tantek
same with Brooklyn vs. "the city"
#
GWG
Yes, but they have better subway coverage
#
GWG
I have been trying to think of which project I can work on for Hack Day.
#
tantek
GWG, I have a feeling we will have LOTS of new people this weekend
#
tantek
that is, a very high % of first time IWC participants
#
GWG
I am excited to help them.
#
tantek
and that you and me will need to very focused on helping others
#
tantek
I hope that is ok
#
tantek
we may not necessarily get a lot done on our own sites
#
GWG
I am fine with that.
#
GWG
Other people inspire me.
#
tantek
even though that's the intent of IWC, as co-organizers, we have an obligation to empower first time participants
#
tantek
same
#
tantek
the teacher often learns more than the student
#
GWG
I won't complain if I can inspire some WordPress users, but I am otherwise platform agnostic
#
tantek
I think there will be a very high demand for WordPress help
#
tantek
you may need to help guide a whole set of WordPress folks
#
GWG
I will enjoy that doubly. I could use the feedback.
#
tantek
I think you will have lots of feedback, but on very early / rudimentary things
#
tantek
like all the rel=me feedback I tried to provide from IWC SF
#
cmal
also, would it be possible maybe to get https://fr.indieweb.org as a different wiki or should we proceed with appending "-fr" after page names?
#
tantek
subdomains--
#
Loqi
subdomains has -3 karma (-1 in this channel)
#
tantek
cmal - it's a misuse of subdomains
#
tantek
since there's no need for a separate CORS context
#
GWG
tantek, at The Summit I deployed big changes there and refined them several times after in response to feedback.
#
tantek
even the Wikipedia folks figured this out (but too late)
#
tantek
GWG - great - that will be very helpful
#
tantek
I think getting people up & running with /Getting_Started /building_blocks and /IndieMark will be key
#
GWG
tantek, maybe I should ask you to try it.
#
cmal
so you think we should have all articles live in the same namespaces, using english language as slugs and appending language code ?
#
tantek
cmal yes that's what we're doing now
#
cmal
but what about per-language slugs?
#
tantek
https://indieweb.org/#Translations
#
tantek
cmal - makes it harder for updating links and porting updates
#
tantek
if you have to remember to change page slugs too everytime you copy paste from updated English pages
#
tantek
https://indieweb.org/Main_Page-fr could definitely use an update!
# mlncn joined the channel
#
cmal
so could we at least maybe have fr.indieweb.org serving 301s to indieweb.org and fr.indieweb.org/ 301 to indieweb.org/Main Page-fr ?
#
cmal
would that be bad?
#
cmal
I'll see what I can do about updating the content there :)
#
GWG
tantek, I created a blank WordPress site, installed only Indieweb plugins, and found problems myself
#
tantek
GWG++
#
Loqi
gwg has 180 karma (166 in this channel)
#
tantek
testing++
#
Loqi
testing has 18 karma (16 in this channel)
#
GWG
Which worries me. I only used 'stable' versions.
#
ChrisAldrich
GWG: I've set up a few test sites in the last month and indiewebified from scratch to improve the WordPress documentation. I have a few knucklehead tweaks to file, but they're unlikely to be noticed by many.
# m_b joined the channel
#
GWG
Chrisaldrich, I am going to move in into my often broken experimental plugins to work on some solutions to port.
#
m_b
hello
#
ChrisAldrich
Good afternoon m_b!
#
ChrisAldrich
GWG: I started setting up a new test site for some of your experimental plugins last night.
#
ChrisAldrich
I've finally decided this morning that I can't fly out to NYC2, but I'll go to DrupalCamp LA instead to stump for IWC LA.
#
GWG
Chrisaldrich, I am only experimenting with Webmentions and More, which combines Semantic Linkbacks.
#
tantek
aaronpk: how's our attendance numbers for IWC NYC2 tickets?
#
ChrisAldrich
GWG: that's what I had been setting up based on our convo the other day... hopefully I'll find some time to hack on it this weekend.
# KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
ChrisAldrich
/me wonders if any drupalheads will notice me hacking on WP over the weekend
# [barryf] joined the channel
#
[barryf]
Homebrew Website Club (London) has started. Hello from calumryan and me.
#
gRegorLove
o/ London HWC
#
ChrisAldrich
GWG: I've never tried it, but can/will a private WordPress post accept trackbacks/pingbacks (assuming that they're turned on)?
#
GWG
It should
#
aaronpk
one more registration came in yesterday
#
aaronpk
i just sat down at a cafe and am going to port those to the NYC2 page now
#
tantek
cool hopefully some more today
#
tantek
barryf++
#
Loqi
barryf has 3 karma
#
tantek
barryf be sure to take a photo! and where's tommorris ?
#
aaronpk
hmm /me adds to itches
#
cmal
I feel like web hosting > "domain for a home server" belongs in the DNS page in a "DNS on a dynamic IP" section
#
cmal
what dou you think? ↑
#
tantek
cmal - I for one am now confused about what problem you're solving
#
tantek
what is a home server?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "home server" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10RR
#
tantek
perhaps start by documenting that?
#
cmal
sure, I'll create a self hosting page, but dynamic IP addresses is a somewhat separate issue, typically that could also happen on a phone which is not really a home server
#
cmal
(but if you think it would be more fitted there, I'll move it as soon as I've started documenting self-hosting)
#
tantek
cmal, "self-hosting" might be something that that there are different notions of
#
KartikPrabhu
do we have examples of people using these things?
#
tantek
i.e. even using a web hosting service, some folks consider themselves self-hosting
#
tantek
cmal, that's why I suggested you document "home server" first because that is more concrete
#
tantek
what is IndieBox?
#
Loqi
Indie Box is a combination software and hardware project to make it easy to run indie-style web applications on a personal server, and keep them maintained https://indieweb.org/IndieBox
#
tantek
^^^ perhaps take a look there for another concrete example
#
gRegorLove
From a discovery point of view, /web_hosting is probably better than /DNS. If it makes sense to split off the home server / self-hosting stuff, can put a link to the "Main" page for those on /web_hosting subsections
#
KartikPrabhu
DNS is deep deep plumbing territory
#
gRegorLove
Yep
#
tantek
exactly
#
tommorris
tantek, [barryf]: sorry, completely forgot
#
KartikPrabhu
there probably should be another "deep" in that sentence
#
gRegorLove
Which if you're running a personal cloud on a RasPi, you're probably familiar with, but still
#
gRegorLove
KartikPrabhu: We have to go deeper. </Inception>
#
KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: be careful of Limbo
#
gRegorLove
cmal: Are you running your site on a home server?
#
ChrisAldrich
Careful, you're all starting to sound like pure mathematicians talking about set theory...
#
m_b
haha, you'll terrorize newcomers
#
KartikPrabhu
ChrisAldrich: well I am a theoretical physicist so not that far away
#
Loqi
rofl
# funwhilelost joined the channel
#
snarfed
loqi is anti-science! go figure
#
KartikPrabhu
well, he is a dinosaur what does he know!
#
snarfed
history i guess
#
miklb
m_b cetainly that's not the goal in this channel
#
KartikPrabhu
which is why all this plumbing talk should probably go to #indiweb-dev
#
tantek
yes
# KevinMarks joined the channel
#
@sdepolo
Join us for #indieweb Homebrew Website club tonight https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club and learn to #ownYourContent on your domain (twtr.io/1GFhw1fGAEQ)
# KevinMarks__ joined the channel
# KevinMarks__ joined the channel
# doesntgolf joined the channel
# AngeloGladding joined the channel
#
bear
sadly I have to miss IWC NYC again - I have to travel to West Virginia for some meetings to deal with my dad's estate
# wolftune joined the channel
#
tantek
aww sorry to hear that bear
#
tantek
on all accounts
# Pierre-O joined the channel
# KevinMarks joined the channel
#
aaronpk
okay! http://2016.indieweb.org/nyc2 is updated with the list of people who registered through tito now!
#
Loqi
IndieWebCamp NYC2 2016
#
aaronpk
(if they clicked the "yes show me" box)
#
bear
yea, normally I would just move the meeting - but this starts the whole probate process so I need to get it going
#
aaronpk
the list updates every hour
#
KevinMarks
snarfed - do you mean run appengine locally to test brid.gy?
#
snarfed
KevinMarks: yes
#
snarfed
or if you prefer you can deploy it to a prod test app id of your own. whichever you prefer
#
KevinMarks
I can't mint app id's any more, appengine says I've hit my quota
#
KevinMarks
and deleting old ones doesn't help :(
#
snarfed
me too :( although i have like 50 so i guess i shouldn't complain
#
snarfed
dev_appserver it is!
# doesntgolf joined the channel
# mlncn joined the channel
#
@gRegorLove
Looking forward to Homebrew Website Club tonight @WoodsCoffee. Join us! https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-10-homebrew-website-club (twtr.io/1GFqoPq0mDL)
#
gRegorLove
Gah, wrong link
#
@gRegorLove
Looking forward to Homebrew Website Club tonight @WoodsCoffee. Join us! https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club (twtr.io/1GFr0HZLJmQ)
#
@yuetsu
@indiewebcamp @evanpro @susanlangenes Fashion sunglasses activity is only $24.99!http://xyfzq.com/coupon.html https://twitter.com/yuetsu/status/768567725077569536/photo/1 (twtr.io/1GFrDf6b9Jw)
#
aaronpk
oops
#
plindner
share once, delete everywhere
#
aaronpk
hacked account
#
aaronpk
what is freemyoauth?
#
Loqi
Free My OAuth is a page designed to help you find who has access to your accounts on various silos https://indieweb.org/FreeMyOAuth
#
aaronpk
/me notes this kind of thing can happen with micropub too
#
aaronpk
only authorize apps you trust to be able to post as you!
# KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
KevinMarks
installing bridgy locally while on the train tethered to my phone is rather slow
#
snarfed
KevinMarks: the pip install? i bet :P
#
KevinMarks_
Hm, no dev_appserver
#
snarfed
ah yeah. something like 45MB iirc
#
KevinMarks_
To - dev
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "Comment on A New Reading Post-type for Bookmarking and Reading Workflow by Glenn Rice" by Glenn Rice on 2016-08-24 http://boffosocko.com/2016/08/22/a-new-reading-post-type-for-bookmarking-and-reading-workflow/#comment-31781
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "By: Glenn Rice" by Glenn Rice on 2016-08-24 https://twitter.com/GlennRicePro/status/768400646496059392
# shiflett joined the channel
# mlncn joined the channel
# pl_ joined the channel
# KevinMarks joined the channel
# snarfed joined the channel
#
@sdepolo
@t Any chance you can make #indieweb in SF tonight? If not, maybe in Sept.? Just checking, didn't see your RSVP yet. (twtr.io/1GFzp8U7Q14)
# snarfed joined the channel
# KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk
just launched the teespring campaign for shirts shipping from the EU
#
aaronpk
probably should wait to post it until late tonight or first thing in the morning so people in that timezone see it :)
#
aaronpk
also: https://indieweb.org/swag
# Lana joined the channel
#
sknebel
aaronpk++
#
Loqi
aaronpk has 1106 karma (424 in this channel)
#
sknebel
swag++
#
Loqi
swag has 1 karma
#
Loqi
[indienews] New post: "Launched an #indiewebcamp t-shirt run shipping from the EU! With time to order before Brighton! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp-eu" https://aaronparecki.com/2016/08/24/9/shirts
#
aaronpk
i'm gonna tweet that tomorrow
#
snarfed
^^ great name for a hipster band
#
miklb
heh, I looked at the stickers, it's like it doesn't make sense to order 50 when 100 only $10 more :)
#
aaronpk
miklb: I order them in batches of like 300-500 so I can send you some
#
miklb
aaronpk OK. I am planning an IW talk at our Barcamp 10/1 which is a bigger tech event here so thought I'd like to be able to hand some out
# pl_ joined the channel
# ChrisAldrich joined the channel
#
@sdepolo
You are a top gogetter grrl! Thank u! You'll be my shining example in no time...lets meet next week and implement that indieweb tookl tha... (twtr.io/1GG6C4NtmJf)
# KevinMarks joined the channel
# mlncn joined the channel
#
@ChrisAldrich
#indieweb @chrisaldrich: On my way to Homebrew Website Club Los Angeles in moments. http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/homebrew-website-club-la-2016-08-24 (twtr.io/1GG7WZfoXHL)
# gRegorLove joined the channel
#
ChrisAldrich
I just discovered that on noterlive.com, clicking on "change speaker" when the "lookup a twitter handle here" is empty causes the fields to default to Tantek!
#
KevinMarks
that was my lazy default as tantek usually starts HWC
# antipolar joined the channel
# [tantek] joined the channel
#
[tantek]
:wave::skin-tone-2: from Manhattan
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: welcome to Homebrew Website Club SF (twtr.io/1GGBFYjrT4Z)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @dangillmor: I teach at the Cronkite School of journlaism at Arizona State, and I still write for slate. back channel and so on (twtr.io/1GGBfjk82cs)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @dangillmor: I'm working on a book about how we can keep control of what we write compared to the centralising tendency (twtr.io/1GGBidc9u80)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @dangillmor: My blog is very simple, but meant to be independent (twtr.io/1GGBjn0Xy0Y)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @dangillmor: when I teahc journlaists, I get them to but a domain, set up their own hosting and create a blog or webiste (twtr.io/1GGBnfyh7Rs)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @dangillmor: I want them to have the experience of installing the software on a server and setting up their own things (twtr.io/1GGBpqY5ZwG)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @dangillmor: We normally use reclaim hosting, which is set up by former university popel fro this, and it is $33/year inc domain (twtr.io/1GGBuaCswfY)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @dangillmor: I insist they do something new, whether it is their first site. They often have no idea they can do this (twtr.io/1GGC0MjTJyC)
#
pl_
LETS FUGG
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @dangillmor: Facebook should not be your internet presence. They need to know what is possible (twtr.io/1GGC3z9qRZs)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @radernation: I don't have a live website, I have a few urls but nothing there (twtr.io/1GGCJoVjEdw)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @radernation: I tries setting up a website for my girlfriend's business idea, I got a theme set up but generating content was hard (twtr.io/1GGCRGYyrej)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @radernation: I've maintained websites, but I haven't built any from scratch (twtr.io/1GGCTEtXQNU)
#
@terriwonglee
Homebrew Website club tonight at @GoDaddy #SanFrancisco office! @kevinmarks is introducing #IndieWeb #ownYourContent https://twitter.com/terriwonglee/status/768627945862639616/photo/1 (twtr.io/1GGCjQY726w)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: showing how webmentions work with a very simple post http://www.kevinmarks.com/justanote.html to link to (twtr.io/1GGCy58aesY)
#
GWG
Evening
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @terriwonglee: I had a personal website, but the domain expired last week - it was a portfolio for my design work (twtr.io/1GGDSaXAM0o)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @terriwonglee: I built it through https://wordpress.org/ and maintained it there, but now I'm going to build it from scratch (twtr.io/1GGDVa31xps)
#
[tantek]
Evening GWG. I have arrived.
# ChrisAldrich joined the channel
#
GWG
[tantek]: Welcome to New York.
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @terriwonglee: Now I'm at GoDaddy I should be able to host it here, so I get to do it again (twtr.io/1GGDjhvuPD4)
# wolftune joined the channel
# ChrisAldrich joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @jeremyllewellyn: It's interesting that you both lost content on private sites (twtr.io/1GGECvKorZL)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @terriwonglee: I do have a copy myself, so I can put it back up again (twtr.io/1GGEEUhtZWg)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @jeremyllewellyn: The federated wiki is an interseting idea - you can clone the data locally (twtr.io/1GGEJU4WHt4)
# pl_ joined the channel
#
@ChrisAldrich
#indieweb @angelogladding: I've torn some things down, but slowly rebuilding. I'm just minutes away from rel-me to be able to log into wiki (twtr.io/1GGEVXga2pb)
#
@ChrisAldrich
#indieweb @ChrisAldrich: Explaining briefly how @kevinmarks' http://www.noterlive.com/ works for live tweeting events... (twtr.io/1GGEjnPipkb)
#
@ChrisAldrich
#indieweb @angelogladding: My github was receiving some autodumps from a short-lived indieweb experiment. (twtr.io/1GGF0MbvELo)
# smcgregor joined the channel
#
@ChrisAldrich
#indieweb @angelogladding: is describing his canopy system used to build his site. (twtr.io/1GGFHQYao7U)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: I've been experimenting with content-hashing as a way of finding sites thta have gone away http://svgur.com/dweb (twtr.io/1GGFNYFHoSf)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @terriwonglee: would you recommend wordpress or making a static site ? (twtr.io/1GGFVsbpMM4)
#
@ChrisAldrich
#indieweb @angelogladding: Building a site from scratch in real time based on Canopy. Compiling... 2 minutes later - an indieweb site! (twtr.io/1GGFWbUwzJQ)
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: it depends on your goal if you are focused on writing, wordpress is great; working on design then it makes it harder (twtr.io/1GGFab88L3C)
#
@ChrisAldrich
#indieweb @angelogladding: Canopy builds in a minute and 52 secs... inside are folders roots and trunk w/ internals (twtr.io/1GGFjw5HMqw)
# tantek joined the channel
#
@ChrisAldrich
#indieweb @angelogladding: Describing how he builds in locations to Canopy (twtr.io/1GGH3uX8cBU)
# AhmetMert joined the channel
#
AhmetMert
hello
#
GWG
Hello, AhmetMert
#
AhmetMert
hello GWG, I wanted to edit wikipage (https://indieweb.org/2016/NYC2/Projects_List) and add my name into Remote Participant list. In order to do that I should add rel="me" command to my personal website. I understand this part. However I did not understand how to add a link back to my my homepage using social media accounts""
#
GWG
Do you have any accounts on any services?
#
@kevinmarks
Notes from tonights Homebrew Website Club SF http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-08-24.html #indieweb (twtr.io/1GGHp8i4ZRL)
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "Notes from tonights Homebrew Website Club SF http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-08-24.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2016-08-25 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/notes-from-tonights-homebrew-website-club-sf-hwc2016-08-24html-indieweb
#
AhmetMert
I do have a github and google+ account if you are asking this
#
bear
AhmetMert - have you see the Getting_Started page?
#
bear
what is getting started
#
Loqi
Get started on the indieweb by connecting with the indiewebcamp community, getting a personal domain, a place for your content, and setting up your home page & other indieweb essentials https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started
#
AhmetMert
yes I have seen it. I almost read them all
#
bear
cool
#
bear
the http://indiewebify.me/validate-rel-me/ site has info about it also
#
bear
and finally http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-me
#
Loqi
rel="me"
#
AhmetMert
I was following the steps in https://indieweb.org/How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain
#
AhmetMert
I will check them out thank you
#
GWG
We'll be here
#
bear
the indiewebify.me link is good because it gives you a way to validate your changes
#
@ChrisAldrich
#indieweb @angelogladding: Apparently @t has a broken certificate for https, so my parser gracefully falls back to http instead. (twtr.io/1GGJJTRkHDc)
#
tantek
perhaps we need UI screenshots showing how to add a link back to your homepage using social media accounts (e.g. per silo)
#
tantek
hey AngeloGladding there shouldn't be any public https URLs to my site so where did you encounter that?
#
tantek
it's not a broken cert, it's a self-signed cert
#
bear
the example links on that page are url's to the profile edit pages - but nothing showing where to put the rel=me links
#
tantek
on your own site? or in the profile editor on a silo?
#
bear
silo
#
tantek
well it's different per silo, each has its own UI for setting your "website" link
#
tantek
(better to call it that - your website link - instead of "rel=me link" because nowhere on any silo do you ever put rel=me anywhere)
#
bear
/me nodsf
# leg joined the channel
# wolftune joined the channel
# KevinMarks joined the channel
# brianloveswords joined the channel
# shiflett joined the channel
#
tantek
nice photo HWC London! https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club#Photos
#
tantek
!tell KevinMarks,ChrisAldrich,aaronpk,gregorlove any photos from HWC tonight to add to https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club#Photos ?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
KevinMarks
Doh, forgot to take a photo
#
Loqi
KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 4 minutes ago: any photos from HWC tonight to add to https://indieweb.org/events/2016-08-24-homebrew-website-club#Photos ?
#
tantek
KevinMarks: two weeks ago?
#
KevinMarks
And tonight
#
KevinMarks
I'm used to being the text person while you're the photo taking person
#
tantek
KevinMarks clearly we need redundant roles ;)
#
tantek
we should both mentor seconds, like in theater
# squeakytoy joined the channel
#
Loqi
it is probable
#
tantek
KevinMarks I thought I saw some photos posted to the slack
# [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks]
That was Aaron with t-shirts I think
#
[kevinmarks]
Oh, there's one of me
#
tantek
yeah!
#
tantek
can you grab those somehow and upload?
#
[kevinmarks]
They're on https://twitter.com/terriwonglee/status/768627945862639616
#
@terriwonglee
Homebrew Website club tonight at @GoDaddy #SanFrancisco office! @kevinmarks is introducing #IndieWeb #ownYourContent https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqq3Cc-UsAEhHU-.jpg (twtr.io/1GGCjQY726w)
#
[kevinmarks]
Easier when I'm or on the phone
#
[kevinmarks]
s/or/not/
# ChrisAldrich joined the channel
# miklb joined the channel
# seekr joined the channel
# wolftune joined the channel
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "Owning Your Own Content" by David G. Johnson on 2016-01-31 https://medium.com/@thedavidjohnson/owning-your-own-content-b2c383f8fd12?source=rss-860249c14687------2
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "Chris, as a kind of sidebar to this, we talk about hosting things on our own site. I&#8217;ve always kind of thought this should be 1 piece of software we use for everything. I think that way because further down the road when I think about imparting my indieweb knowledge to someone else I could [&#8230;]" by Scott Kingery on 2016-08-25 http://techlifeweb.com/14892-2/
#
KevinMarks
Twitter web UI was failing to post, so I used quill+silo.pub instead
# Pierre-O joined the channel
# Pierre-O joined the channel
# pl_ joined the channel
# gRegorLove joined the channel
# AngeloGladding joined the channel
# ChrisAldrich joined the channel