#indieweb 2016-10-21

2016-10-21 UTC
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KevinMarks1
Per user would imply I have user login, which I don't
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KevinMarks1
but I should add a NIPSA setting
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tantek
per post then
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KevinMarks1
the fullscreen version is worse, wow
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tantek
you could even implement optional IndieAuth sign-in, which could give privilege to mark/unmark something NIPSA as well
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tantek
trusting the indieweb to moderate for you
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tantek
indieauth login = super user level 1
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tantek
what is a superuser?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "superuser" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KevinMarks1
I can do google login for free 'cos it's appengine, but indieauth is work
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tantek
A superuser is a privileged user on a site (typically a [[silo]], like [[Foursquare) that has some admin abilities, sometimes different based on what "level" of superuser the user has been granted or has achieved.
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Loqi
Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-10-21.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
funwhilelost, mlncn, tantek, misuba, KevinMarks, gRegorLove and wolftune joined the channel
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gRegorLove
!tell aaronpk I think I've got my private webmentions sorted out
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
tantek, arlen, KevinMarks_, loicm, friedcell, snarfed, Pierre-O, jihaisse and cweiske joined the channel
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@jkphl
The postman rang. We got some stickers. \o/ In other words: Bring it on, @indiewebcamp Berlin! Thanks @aaronpk!… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/789436184686657537
(twitter.com/_/status/789436184686657537)
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jonnybarnes
if I want to POSSE to facebook, I need to make an app and submit it feo review?
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Jeena
you can use brid.gy
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jonnybarnes
the login review process looks ridiculous
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Jeena
they take a post which you have marked up with microformats and post it for you to facebook via the API
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Jeena
you could also use https://silo.pub/ if you have a micro pub client already
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jonnybarnes
I migh need to look into silo.pub? can a client post to two seperate endpoints?
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Jeena
I haven't used it myself but I think it does post everywhere you connect it to
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aaronpk
jonnybarnes: i use silo.pub to post to facebook
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Loqi
aaronpk: gRegorLove left you a message 9 hours, 9 minutes ago: I think I've got my private webmentions sorted out
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aaronpk
yay gRegorLove
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jonnybarnes
aaronpk: using you Quill client?
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aaronpk
not quite
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aaronpk
in this case, p3k itself is the micropub client. basically i can add any number of syndication targets that support micropub to p3k
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aaronpk
so quill posts to my micropub endpoint to create the post, and then totally separately, my endpoint syndicates the post to whichever i clicked on by either making another micropub request or sending a webmention like for bridgy and indienews
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jonnybarnes
how does location need to be marked up (specifically lat,lng) for bridgy to syndicate it to twitter?
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jonnybarnes
the preview option doesn’t suggest my current location markup is compatible with bridgy
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tantek
jonnybarnes: how are you marking it up? example URL?
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jonnybarnes
here’s the current deployed version: https://jonnybarnes.uk/notes/CB
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Loqi
[Jonny Barnes] What a goal! #mufclive
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jonnybarnes
though I’ve edited it slightly
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jonnybarnes
but I can’t deploy
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jonnybarnes
because I can’t access github.com
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jonnybarnes
or twitter.com
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tantek
do you have screenshots of those sites being unavailable/down? perhaps add them to the wiki?
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jonnybarnes
well, I can’t access them at the moment because of a DNS issue
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tantek
location, latitude, longitude seem reasonable, and re-used from h-event and h-card. let's see if they made it into h-entry...
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jonnybarnes
even switching to google dns doesn’t work
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tantek
a-ha p-location made it!
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tantek
whoa I can't access github.com either!
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sknebel
Dyn is being DDOSed
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sknebel
which has hit quite a few high-profile sites
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jonnybarnes
yeah, dig just comes up blank
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tantek
i was going to file an issue for Bridgy Publish to support p-location when POSSEing to a destination that supports location
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jonnybarnes
well, twitter doesn’t acually support location, just latitude and longitude values
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sknebel
now the outage even seems to have spread to europe, we were fine at first
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[schmarty]
a DNS DDoS?
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[schmarty]
now's my chance to advocate for more .onion versions of sites
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tantek
jonnybarnes: ^^^ when github comes back, file an issue requesting that Bridgy Publish parse p-location in the source h-entry and POSSE it to destinations that support location: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/
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tantek
since p-location is part of the h-entry spec :)
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tantek
(core property even, which means it's considered very stable)
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[schmarty]
speaking of stable properties - is the h-event under active development?
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sknebel
[schmarty]: it's surprising to see how many of these high-profile sites rely on one DNS provider
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KevinMarks
Is dyn used to do clever cdn things with dns?
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jonnybarnes
so regrding POSSE to twitter, you either send lat/lng pair, or a place id
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tantek
schmarty, h-event is pretty solid, did you have a specific question about it?
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jonnybarnes
but thats a random string you need to lookup with twitter first
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aaronpk
wow yeah that's an impressive list http://dyn.com/about/clients/
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jonnybarnes
so its easiest with twitter to just send the coordinates
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sknebel
KevinMarks: Dyn is mostly used because they are massive and reliable, + apparently they were among the first to offer geo targeting
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tantek
jonnybarnes - huh? nah, leave that up to discussion in the bug
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tantek
just file the bug minimally
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tantek
ok ok
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tantek
what is Dyn?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Dyn" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sknebel
but they are a fairly "normal" DNS provider
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jonnybarnes
the other thing, which sanrfed may be able to clarify, is I haven’t actually symdicated anything with bridgy yet
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jonnybarnes
just trying the preview mode
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[schmarty]
tantek: i've been working on getting quill event posting to my site. between the pages on indieweb and microformats wikis, plus some eyeballing with the pin13 mf2 parser, i think i have something that works well
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jonnybarnes
maybe that doesn’t show location
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jonnybarnes
but it would get syndicated
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[schmarty]
i guess i am curious if anything consumes h-events that i could test this out on.
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jonnybarnes
interstingly twitter.com is down, but tweetbot is currently still working
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tantek
schmarty - woodwind consumes h-event
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tantek
even lets you RSVP right there from the reader!
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[schmarty]
tantek - ah, thanks! i'll check out what woodwind thinks of it.
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tantek
woodwind is quite amazing
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KevinMarks
I love woodwind, but I don't want to promote it too much so Kyle gets big bills
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[schmarty]
haha, my site has an issue with woodwind - i put truncated posts on my front page. will need to include the event info there.
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Loqi
[schmarty]: lol
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bear
looks and sees that people are aware of DYN ddos
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KevinMarks
Signing into woodwind with twitter via silo pub could be a great thing to do
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tantek
what is DYN?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "DYN" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KevinMarks
Do you have a good analysis to read on it bear?
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bear
not yet - this is the 3rd ddos on them this morning
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bear
DYN is a major DNS providor used by AWS and other companies with world-wide presence
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tantek
jonnybarnes: feel free to join #microformats to track progress of h-entry btw. it's fairly low traffic
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jonnybarnes
tantek: is it on freenode?
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KevinMarks
This dns outage is an example of where the content hash fallback would be good
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jonnybarnes
github is back up for me for now
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gRegorLove
aaronpk: Were you able to retrieve my private post?
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aaronpk
gRegorLove: the token from yesterday expired
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aaronpk
can you send the webmention again?
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tantek
jonnybarnes: "You can't comment at this time. "
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tantek
screenshots
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aaronpk
gRegorLove: i'm still getting "Please authenticate to view this page."
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aaronpk
the header i'm sending is "Authorization: Bearer eyJ0eX..."
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gRegorLove
Huh, expired token error. More for me to debug.
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aaronpk
when i used yesterday's token I got a json message saying expired token
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aaronpk
this time i just get the HTML page
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gRegorLove
Also odd. You should have gotten form-encoded response "error=invalid_request&error_description=Expired+token"
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aaronpk
oh you're right. i turned it into json in my head :P
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gRegorLove
Hehe. But right now you didn't get that?
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gRegorLove
First thought was maybe the timezone on the server is wrong, but the code I sent is only valid 5 minutes, vs 1 hour for the authorization_code, so that doesn't make sense.
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gRegorLove
takes further discussion to #indieweb-dev
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KevinMarks1
I need a logo for svgur.com - this one doesn't really work: http://svgur.com/s/17
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Loqi
[indieweb] "I'm complaining about #Twitter #DDoS on my own website because I can :) #indieweb #selfhosting #ownyourdata" by Rick Mendes on 2016-10-21 https://www.rmendes.net/2016/im-complaining-about-twitter-ddos-on-my-own-website-because
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Loqi
[indieweb] "I'm complaining about #Twitter #DDoS on my own website because I can :) #indieweb #selfhosting #ownyourdata" by Rick Mendes on 2016-10-21 https://rmendes.net/2016/im-complaining-about-twitter-ddos-on-my-own-website-because
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sknebel
*sigh*
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tantek
hey is anyone posting issues on their own site and POSSEing them to github (whenever it happens to be up) ?
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tantek
https://indieweb.org/github#POSSE_to_GitHub doesn't mention whole issues, hmm
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tantek
what is an issue?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "issue" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KartikPrabhu
what is OOP?
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Loqi
The object-oriented-programming antipattern is the excessive / unnecessary use of object-oriented-programming (OOP) and OOP techniques when simple procedural functions would have sufficed, with less overhead, fewer files to navigate around, fewer indirections to follow while debugging, etc https://indieweb.org/OOP
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: i recall that you had a OOP vs functional article somewhere... link please :)
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tantek
An issue is a special kind of [[article]] post that is a [[reply]] to typically some source [[code]], though potentially anything at a source control repository. silo example: [[GitHub]] issues.
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tantek
hey snarfed, have you ever posted an issue on your own site and then POSSEd it to github?
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snarfed
tantek: i don't think so, sadly
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snarfed
maybe once, not sure
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snarfed
i've done a few stackoverflow Qs/As
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tantek
snarfed, seems like a timely moment to explore the possibilty :)
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aaronpk
i've done that a couple times
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aaronpk
more often replies, but a few issues
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tantek
aaronpk, can you find any of the issues? I'm looking for indieweb examples for /issue
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] It would be amazing if Granary supported PuSH. That would allow Granary to be smart about how it polls the underlying data sources (since each may have their own varying rate limits) instead of relying on the Granary consumer to implement smart polli...
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snarfed
yes! there's already a feature request issue for that
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snarfed
oh i see, nm :P
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aaronpk
haha sorry
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Loqi
ahahahaha
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aaronpk
tantek: i found a few more i can add too
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tantek
hands aaronpk the editing token
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@m_ott
@jkphl Brauchte auch noch was übers #IndieWebCamp Wochenende und dachte, Du hast wahrscheinlich schon was gefunden… Viel Erfolg!
(twitter.com/_/status/789527575706099712)
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tantek
has anyone been able to at least POSSE to Twitter via their API?
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tantek
snarfed, when was the last time Bridgy Publish succeeded with posting to Twitter?
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tantek
wonders if that's on the home page
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snarfed
not on the home page
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snarfed
their api was down earlier too
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snarfed
saw a few dns errors from bridgy, ownyourresponses, etc
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snarfed
dns for twitter.com includes api.twitter.com :P
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Loqi
[Ryan Barrett] App Engine global transactions
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KevinMarks
Their media endpoint was failing
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tantek
needs an emojicon for issue
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tantek
?is "BUG" though
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KartikPrabhu
so twitter is already down?
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tantek
is twitter down?
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tantek
how long has twitter been down?
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plindner
depends on your DNS I think.
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KartikPrabhu
at least 1/2 hour here
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KevinMarks
It's variably down. Because they have lots of hosts, different bits are broken
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aaronpk
i can get to it just fine
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KartikPrabhu
i guess east-cost is most affected
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bear
also depends on where your dns resolver points
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bear
lots of isp's run internal dns and probably have increased their ttls just for this
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sl007
aaronpk: From the FAQ: "Why does IndieAuth.com need to see my tweets and see who I follow?" - it does not (at least not for twitter) - this is what the endpoint "1.1/account/verify_credentials.json" was made for …
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aaronpk
hm that may not have been there when i first made indieauth.com
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snarfed
sl007: it's not about which endpoint you hit, it's about how fine grained the oauth scopes are
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snarfed
twitter's are pretty coarse
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tantek
though they added more fine-grained ones over time
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tantek
dev-sense tingles
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snarfed
hmm not sure about that, iirc twitter's access_type is either read or write
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aaronpk
yeah i don't think there's a scope that doesn't give access to tweets
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snarfed
oh there's one more for DMs
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aaronpk
there's a parameter there to request read-only access when the application's default is read/write
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tantek
heya what happens to all those github static served JS frameworks yo?
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tantek
and sites that depend on those scripts to show anything?
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KevinMarks
I think I now know what my content addressing demo should be
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tantek
a series of screenshots of sites being down today?
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tantek
anyone here have any experience with Shopify?
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KevinMarks_
No, a plugin that caches hashes of every url it sees, then uses hash lookup if it finds 404s
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tantek
hmm looks like Bing has a decent cache of Twitter URLs
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tantek
I see: "global DNS ddos is the grownup version of a snow day. ☃️"
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tantek
hey everyone who POSSEs - do you do any (semi-)automatic retries upon POSSE failure (e.g. if silo is down for whatever reasons e.g. DNS DDoS)
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tantek
Falcon just keeps track of what it has / hasn't POSSEd, and always attempts to POSSE the earliest thing that has yet to succeed POSSEing
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tantek
(e.g. upon trying to "Post" another post)
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snarfed
bridgy retries backfeed webmentions for up to 1d
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KevinMarks_
Wayback is good for the icon urls
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snarfed
starts at 30s, expentional backoff to 1h
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tantek
snarfed, that's on the silo side, or the sending backfeed webmentions to indieweb sites side?
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snarfed
wms to indie sites
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tantek
aaronpk: does the Webmention spec say what to do if the sending fails (after discovery step) ?
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KevinMarks_
Twitter for me is showing html but no css
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aaronpk
hmm it doesn't
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tantek
so I suppose that's up to implementations then
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tantek
email keeps trying over days. http fails immediately and doesn't retry.
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tantek
(e.g. loading a web page in a browser)
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aaronpk
and post requests too
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tantek
though some browsers do retry in the case of "no network available" "you appear to be offline"
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snarfed
actually bridgy silo api retries follow mostly the same schedule
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snarfed
just not as important since bridgy re-polls regularly anyway
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tantek
snarfed but presumably not Bridgy Publish
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snarfed
no definitely not. tough to do that safely and not surprise users.
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tantek
right. users don't expect posting to Twitter to be like sending an email
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tantek
what are issues?
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tantek
wow that's old
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gRegorLove
tantek: I have some experience with Shopify
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tantek
gRegorLove: are any of your Shopify sites online?
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tantek
shopify sites hotlink to shopify for their JS and CSS right?
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gRegorLove
One was down earlier today (DYN DNS), let me check now.
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gRegorLove
It appears to be up currently.
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gRegorLove
Yeah, assets are through cdn.shopify.com
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gRegorLove
What is Shopify?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Shopify" yet. Would you like to create it?
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gRegorLove
Shopify is a service for selling online https://shopify.com
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Loqi
Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-10-21.html
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KevinMarks_
Hm, does someone want to clarify mp-type as my summary is wrong
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sknebel
... and my bouncer rebooting reminds me:
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sknebel
PSA: critical kernel patch for linux systems!
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bear
CVE-2016-5195 -- all of the linux OS vendors have kernel patches in place
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sknebel
yeah, I assume everybody running their own server already heard, but just to be sure I thought I'd mention it here
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bear
we need to also remind folks that it's a kernel update - so a reboot is required
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GWG
Howdy all
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GWG
Another fun vulnerability?
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@sandhawke
@Matsubue nod nod. Have you seen the indiewebcamp approach? It's deeply that, although very html centric.
(twitter.com/_/status/789579494793310208)
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Loqi
Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2016-10-21.html
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tantek
oh hey - aaronpk the extra hour bought you time to fix mp-type! it made it in!
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snarfed, GWG, kants, finchd, rrix, petermolnar, camerongray, comzeradd, chimo, StatelessCat, R2ZER0, eayoungs, matthewtrask, michel_v, daf, renoirb, bttf, ehlovader, g3funk, gko, myfreeweb_, moredhel, __number5__, reidab, cleverdevil, tbrb, seekr, minsky, bear, terminalpixel_, Ruxton, bnvk_, neanias, cuibonobo, jmelesky, XgF, kline, JasonO, dansup, sonicrocketman, gRegorLove, ChrisAldrich, ben_thatmustbeme, sknebel, pindonga, M-mxuribe, M-hotzeplotz, plindner, PFMurph, bergie, Gold, jdcauley, asheesh, lmorchard, Erkan_Yilmaz, rhiaro, KartikPrabhu, acegiak, bjoern, slow, dkm, MylesBraithwaite, wagle, koray, rascul, corenominal, brianloveswords, rektide_, marinintim, raucao, prtksxna, jacus, smcgregor, DanC_, Zegnat, jonnybarnes, emceeaich__, ePirat, zichy, smth[m], voxpelli, kapowaz, mattl, sensiblemn, tommorris, Salt, sbruce, Jeena, anarchivist, cjk101010, Jammy_Stuff, AngeloGladding, tridnguyen, shiflett, KevinMarks_, aaronpk, arlen, thebaer, smth[m]1, M-nd, M-rongladney, halorgium, Kongaloosh, Leeky, Guerillero|BNC and Guest22907 joined the channel
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snarfed
wish i could hide the +v voice messages :/
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snarfed
do we get any value from the +v thing? seems like it's just a vague non-functional IRC nicety? i wonder if we should turn it back off
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Does this work as a logo for svgur.com? http://svgur.com/s/EP #indieweb" by Kevin Marks on 2016-10-21 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/does-this-work-as-a-logo-for-svgurcom-sep-indieweb
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gRegorLove
What IRC client, snarfed? Should be able to hide them. http://wiki.xkcd.com/irc/Hide_join_part_messages
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snarfed
gRegorLove: i already hide join/part messages. these are different
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gRegorLove
event messages can be hidden too
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snarfed
i'd love to! haven't found how yet. i'm on adium
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gRegorLove
But yeah, I don't particularly use it. Guess it's nice to at a glance see how many are on irc-people
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gRegorLove
!tell funwhilelost I'm down for Seattle IWC
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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