#indieweb 2017-07-01

2017-07-01 UTC
#
aaronpk I might need to figure out a foursquare list equivalent for my site soon
#
aaronpk Gonna try bookmarking venues with a tag for now https://aaronparecki.com/tag/happyhour
ricmac, amitp, fzylogic_ and Billbennettnz joined the channel
#
[grantcodes] aaronpk not indieweb friendly but I made https://todomap.xyz
#
neilpdx i love the fact that you are allowing twitter sign up [grantcodes]
mdik joined the channel
#
[grantcodes] Yeah as I said not indieweb friendly but feel free to steal UI ideas from it :P
#
neilpdx thank you!
#
neilpdx i followed you on twitter and sent you a tweet [grantcodes]
ricmac joined the channel
#
@samwilson @tim_bowden (I've been reading https://indieweb.org/wiki ) (twitter.com/_/status/880963938283798528)
j12t, tantek and wolftune joined the channel
#
gRegorLove Hmm, cleverdevil's post on IndieNews is 404. Looks like it doesn't have the month/day parts in the path
#
gRegorLove Actual https://cleverdevil.io/2017/06/30/indieweb-summit-2017-recap, IndieNews https://cleverdevil.io/2017/indieweb-summit-2017-recap
ricmac joined the channel
#
Loqi [superfeedr] "The indieweb includes RSS and much more, but @davewiner is still resisting change." by Kevin Marks on 2017-06-21 http://known.kevinmarks.com/2017/the-indieweb-includes-rss-and-much-more-but-davewiner-is
#
Loqi [Jonathan LaCour] IndieWeb Summit 2017 Recap
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
[chrisaldrich] FourFire, if you're still around you can check out http://lifestreamblog.com/ which is a site run by a community member here.
#
GWG [chrisaldrich]: We should talk about HWC when you have a moment
#
tantek great newsletter this week! great job everyone!
#
[chrisaldrich] GWG: I'm here
#
GWG [chrisaldrich]: Do you want to try a HWC online?
#
[chrisaldrich] unless you want to organize in #meta
#
GWG [chrisaldrich]: Is that meta? I suppose it is
#
GWG retreats to meta
ricmac and [cleverdevil] joined the channel
#
[cleverdevil] Oops. That was an accidental toggle of a the slug generation settings on my Known.
#
[cleverdevil] The correct one is just with the year.
#
[cleverdevil] Should be fixed now.
#
[cleverdevil] Thanks for letting me know gregorlove
sl007, [miklb], snarfed, [eddie], wolftune, awolf, ricmac, endi, sketchess, squeakytoy and gRegorLove joined the channel
#
Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb!
#
sknebel good morning Zegnat!
#
Zegnat Lets see if I can get the issue counter on selfauth to 0 today!
#
sketchess good luck
Mutter joined the channel
#
Zegnat Hi sketchess, thanks!
#
Zegnat It is something I got focused on because of you ;)
#
sketchess I just was reading your new pieces of it. ;)
#
sketchess It is not very hard to guess that you do alot because of me. Hahaha.
#
Loqi hehe
#
Zegnat Don’t worry we also find time to do weird stuff in between
#
sketchess me? never!
#
Zegnat I wasn’t here yesterday. Did I see you having trouble finding information about a Germany event?
#
sketchess Indieweb is still somthing magical to me, but I have not given up yet to understand. xD
#
sketchess No that is not the case.
#
sketchess Today is first day of my holidays, so there will be enough time to get my head around it. But not now. I switched from post-its to noteblock and it got filled alot the last days. ;) So I am in the middle of getting focused.
#
Zegnat I will be out this evening, but if you run into questions feel free to also mention my name to summon me if I am available ;)
#
sketchess Thank you very much that's very sweet of you.
#
sketchess Zegnat, does the Indieweb have a overall main purpose? Maybe somthing more than just 'own your data'. I got the feeling it had..... in the past at least.
#
sketchess Do you understand?
#
Zegnat I... don’t think so? It is mostly about enabling people to keep control of their own stuff as well as their own identity instead of giving control to Facebook/Twitter/etc.
#
sketchess Interesting.
#
Zegnat I think people have different reasons for joining the IndieWeb. And that’s the nice thing: the IndieWeb does not want everyone to use 1 specific thing
#
sketchess Well the strongest power of our world are ideas. There is no need for a dogma.
#
sketchess So I would not assume that.
#
sketchess But there is the possibility of little thing that connects all of you in a special way. Adeeper meaning.
#
sketchess Perhaps it will be formed in the future. :)
#
sketchess would be happy for Indieweb
#
Zegnat I am not sure we need something like that
#
sketchess How sad.
#
Zegnat Why?
#
sketchess Do you wanna have a direct answer? Even if you might not like it?
#
Zegnat Always
#
sketchess That will take a moment, because it is a bit longer and I am trying to write English properly.
#
@xtof_party #indieweb summit 2017 Écoutez @aaronpk et @t vous résumer où en est le "web indépendant" > https://indieweb.org/2017/Schedule#Saturday https://twitter.com/t/status/880216060707958784 (twitter.com/_/status/881079505842040832)
#
Zegnat Take your time. Also: I accept multiple languages ;)
#
sketchess During this little ammount of time I am here, I nonetheless noticed something. The Indieweb is so occupied, maybe even desperate, in 'owning the data' that something got left-behind somehow on the way. And you noticed it yourself, too. If I have to name it than I would call it 'the current nature of the Indieweb'. Shell I go one?
#
sketchess -e
#
Zegnat I am not sure what we left behind. I built a website, therefor I am part of the IndieWeb.
#
sketchess Than let me ask you this: For whom do you continue building the Indieweb?
#
sketchess And make it better?
#
Zegnat For myself
#
sketchess Really? Just yourself and that is it?
#
Zegnat All the tools I am currently building, I am building because I use them
#
sketchess What about other poeple? What about guys like me? Do they not count in this little world you are building?
#
Zegnat I build tools for me, and then I share them for others to use and join the indieweb. That is one of the principles :)
#
sebsel I build for myself too. Other people can use pieces of what I build, and I use pieces of what other people have build. But if you don’t do SOME work yourself, you can’t own your data.
#
sebsel We're happy to help though.
#
sketchess You are really not understanding, do you?
#
Zegnat You’ll have to forgive us for being, what I in my blog post called, “developer types”.
#
sketchess You are really a contradiction in yourself.
#
sketchess What are your hopes when you are participating in meetups and discussing how to open up Indieweb for 2, 3 ,4 ,5?
#
sketchess Please don't tell me you are having none.
#
Zegnat I want to encourage people to also start owning their identity and data online.
#
Zegnat But I am not personally building things for them to do that, I build for me. Some people have focused on building for others too, and I have huge respect for those people, but that is not me personally.
#
sketchess I understand.
#
Zegnat But I share what I use. I currently use selfauth to be able to login to the wiki without using Twitter or any other website. selfauth is available on GitHub and I would encourage other people to use that too, just like I am using it.
#
@kevinmarks Could you legislate social graph portability? Meanwhile there's #indieweb https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/30/opinion/social-data-google-facebook-europe.html (twitter.com/_/status/881088978841202688)
#
Zegnat I would also love to assist people in setting up selfauth on their websites.
#
sketchess To become a part of Indieweb.....
#
sebsel sketchess you have a personal website right? then you are already part of the indieweb. it's up to you to formulate what you want to do with that site.
#
sketchess explain 'formulate' further please
#
sebsel ask yourself the question: what do I want with my website?
#
sketchess Forgive me, because I am smiling pretty hard.
#
sketchess I already know that we are walking in two different pairs of shoes.
#
sketchess It seems that I can't walk in yours like you can't walk in mine. The only thing left to do is to meet in the middle.
#
sketchess You have to excuse me for now. Luch time.
#
sketchess +n
#
sebsel If you don't know what you want with your website, we can't help you with how to get there :)
#
sketchess re
#
sketchess sebsel, you are wrong about me, I am afraid.
#
sketchess two things
#
sketchess first: The fact that I have a own domain does not automatically make me a part of Indieweb. It is a choice to be part of the Indieweb, that's a huge difference. Noone can decide for me. And noone can take action for me.
#
sketchess second: I do know. I do know why and what, not ever how, but I do know my Project 100%.
#
Zegnat You might chose not to be part of the indieweb movement. You can also chose not to be part of the indieweb community (although you already are, as you are here). But you became part of the independent web as soon as you started managing your own domain.
#
Zegnat I consider anyone who has their own place on the internet that they call theirs “part of the IndieWeb”.
#
sebsel it all depends on your definition of IndieWeb :)
#
Zegnat has been trying to write his own definition of IndieWeb for 2 weeks now
#
sketchess I can see that. And it is frightening.
#
sketchess I see independent web and Indieweb not as the same thing.
ricmac joined the channel
#
sketchess I do not have to worry in owning my data, I just do. Thihihi.
#
sebsel do you want to be part of IndieWeb?
#
sketchess I am not able yet answering this question.
#
sketchess As I said, it still is somehow like magic to me.
#
sebsel but you do want to be part of the independent web?
#
sketchess That does not exits yet. I made the first steps into the direction that can be called somehow independent.
#
sketchess I try to build a new kind with very little.
#
sketchess little but effective
#
sketchess I gave myself one year.
#
Zegnat You say independent web does not exist yet. So what is your definition of independent web?
#
sketchess Is it still "#indieweb" or has this topic become "#indieweb-chat"?
Garbee joined the channel
#
sketchess I ask seriously.
#
ben_thatmustbeme its still on topic
#
sketchess thank you ben
#
sketchess than you will have to wait a little Zegnat and sebsel, I am a snail ;)
#
sketchess The 'independence' I would love to see emerge has a certain quality. It is given to people in a way regardless of their psychological and / or physical abilities (in a positive way). An environment neither build for majority nor minority. This quality of independence is not certainly based of the provided content. We all do have different thing we are passionated about or would love to learn. It is more based in
#
sketchess terms of access. In terms of exchange of knowledge. The human is a very selfish animal and filled with fears of all kinds. Great power comes with great responsibilities. So often the human chooses not to do what's right. Choosing the easy way instaed the right one is not so difficult. I like to become a part of something that is greater than just me.
#
sketchess It is helping people to grow as a human that's the path I am following.
#
sebsel So, this is about independence, and individuals versus a group. How does it relate to 'the independent web', especially the web-part of that?
#
sketchess In the way in how it is build.
#
sketchess I might not be a developer or a programmer. But I am sure even with the little I am capabile of I can assumble it in a different way. Giving people the power to choose for themself in any means.
#
sketchess want to have a shift
#
sketchess If you do not understand me that wouldn't be dramatic.
#
sketchess In fact it is very complex.
#
sebsel Don't be mad, but it does sound a bit like http://indieweb.org/architecture_astronomy
#
sketchess *rofl*
#
sebsel Not saying that your work is meaningless, but you are thinking very abstract here.
#
sketchess :)
#
sketchess How sad.
#
sebsel I really try to understand the problem you are trying to fix, but I don't get it. I am working on problems like 'how do I self-host my tweets', which are manageable.
#
sebsel I will always be dependent on something, for example, I breath air.
#
sebsel But I am not going to solve my air-breathing dependency, and I am not going to solve everybody being dependent on social media, but I can host my own tweets, so that's what I do.
#
sebsel Keep it simple, that's what I'm saying, and solve your smaller problem first.
#
Zegnat ^^^ should be our mission statement!
#
sketchess As I said, we walk in different pairs of shoes. Words like: authism, eidetic, blindess, iq, synesthesia and many many more have a meaning for me. There is a way to do thing simple an effective at the same time. ;)
#
sketchess +d
#
Zegnat IQ, that is another data point I could add to my h-card!
#
sketchess *rofl*
#
petermolnar sketchess did you read http://indieweb.org/why ?
#
sketchess yep
#
petermolnar also, many of us have their own reasons, mine are: https://petermolnar.net/indieweb-decentralize-web-centralizing-ourselves/
#
Loqi Indieweb - decentralize the web while centralizing ourselves
#
Zegnat (Also, sketchess, don’t assume those words don’t have meaning to other people here.)
#
Zegnat Now: time for lunch :)
#
sketchess :)
#
sketchess I accepted long long time ago that diversity is the normality. So I do not trying to fix a problem. I just life the normality, but by not leaving someone out. That's all.
#
petermolnar "by not leaving someone out" - actually, that's one of the main purposes as well: those who only post to social silos do exclude those without a login/registration there, eg. facebook
#
sketchess I appreciate that you try to connect with me, petermolnar. You do not have to defend yourself or Indiweb. There is no need for that.
#
sebsel sketchess With statements like that, you seem to imply that we are leaving people out. We are not. The only thing we're leaving people out of, is because they do not understand the tech we use. We are trying to fix that, but that takes time. We do not leave people out based on any of the words you just listed.
#
sketchess I can only speak for myself, sebsel. What ever you might search for, I do not have it.
#
sebsel Well, I am at least trying to understand what you are looking for. I don't seem to find it, so I can't help you.
#
sebsel And with that I'll go for lunch too.
#
sketchess enjoy :)
#
petermolnar sketchess I'm not defending anything; you said you don't get what indieweb is and I'm trying to point you to articles showing why and what we're doing
#
sketchess Showing as many links as possible will not work petermolnar. It will not work.
#
sketchess Thank you. :)
#
sketchess Thank you for this day's conversation. I really appreciate it. By the way, that's the way how I learn.
#
sketchess sebsel: The answer is... nothing. Nothing to solve.
#
sketchess I wish a pleasant weekend.
ricmac, j_juran and jjuran joined the channel
#
petermolnar !tell sketchess when you say "not leaving someone out" - do you mean technical/technological or philosophical? For technical, there are standards, for example, to make screen readers work (look for microformats, schema.org, dublin core, etc.), and we do not exclude any, only encourage some over others. From the philosophical point of view... well, when you decide to belong somewhere you give up some freedom by accepting group decisions,
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
petermolnar but never turned anyone off who wanted to participate.
#
petermolnar hm
#
petermolnar I wonder if Loqi got the whole line or will cut it
#
Loqi will cut it
#
sebsel lol
#
petermolnar thought so :D
#
Zegnat I have seen that happen before, so can confirm that Loqi will cut it unless aaronpk changed it very recently
#
petermolnar !tell sketchess (continued from the cut sentence) but never turned anyone off who wanted to participate.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
@kevinmarks @thomasforth Needs microformats - see indiewebify.me (twitter.com/_/status/881142975069376512)
barpthewire, tantek, [kevinmarks], [miklb], snarfed and doubleloop[m] joined the channel
#
aaronpk good morning
#
aaronpk there's not much i can do about that, IRC message length limits
#
Loqi good morning
DanC and ricmac joined the channel
#
doubleloop[m] hiya .o/
#
doubleloop[m] I'm getting this error when using Bridgy Publish WP plugin: Bridgy Error: Couldn't find link to brid.gy/publish/twitter
#
GWG doubleloop[m]: What site is this?
#
doubleloop[m] It was working just fine, but it stopped working recently.
#
doubleloop[m] hi GWG: it's doubleloop.net
#
GWG And the URL of what you were trying to publish?
#
doubleloop[m] https://doubleloop.net/2017/07/01/467/ <- i've just published it manually via bridgy though
#
Loqi [Neil Mather] “Intellectual property”. The enclosure of ideas built upon the commons of all prior thought. What a ridiculous concept.
#
doubleloop[m] should i do another one for testing purposes?
davidmead joined the channel
#
GWG doubleloop[m]: I assume you are up to date on everything?
#
GWG I'm looking and I don't see anything obviously wrong from the outside.
#
GWG When was the last time you successfully posted using Bridgy Publish?
#
Loqi what
#
doubleloop[m] GWG: yes all my plugins are up-to-date. Although I'm not yet on wordpress 4.8
#
doubleloop[m] GWG: I'm not sure unfortunately... I think maybe June 25th, because if I look on this page - https://doubleloop.net/kind/note/ , that's the last date a note has 'Also on: twitter' which I guess means Bridgy Publish successfully added a syndication link
#
GWG doubleloop[m]: I'll do some tests. There were a few releases, though not to Bridgy Publish, since then. Hope nothing broke.
awolf joined the channel
#
GWG I've made a note here: https://github.com/dshanske/bridgy-publish/issues/35
#
Loqi [dshanske] #35 Bridgy Publish not adding links to this site
#
doubleloop[m] GWG: cool, thanks. Let me know if there's any info I can provide.
#
GWG doubleloop[m]: Will do. I'll document at that link I shared.
#
doubleloop[m] I'm @ngm on github if you want to ping me there.
#
GWG I have some free time in the coming weeks outside of work. Doing a lot of changes
#
@thomasforth After a couple of welcome nudges from @kevinmarks I'm becoming a citizen of the IndieWeb -- it's surprisingly easy.… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/881185168580587521 (twitter.com/_/status/881185168580587521)
lukasros, ricmac, [barryf], awolf, fzylogic_, KartikPrabhu, eli_oat, bgrrtt and hs0ucy_ joined the channel
#
@JayGreasley https://beakerbrowser.com/docs/using-beaker/ looks interesting for #indieweb peeps? (twitter.com/_/status/881237363544010753)
madgoat and davidmead joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu that looks interesting ^ but would be much better if "sites" had actual URLs. possibly a /micropub browser extension
#
KartikPrabhu or any micropub client
[barryf] joined the channel
#
[miklb] hmm https://stackingthebricks.com/how-blogs-broke-the-web/
bgrrtt joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu does not understand that argument at all
#
amitp I don't either
#
petermolnar that's actually and interesting argument
#
petermolnar which is, that when the web got started filling up with personal entries - eg. diaries - it slipped away from it's original, "collection of interesting things" format
#
aaronpk interesting, my ham radio website turned into the "collection of interesting things" format rather than a blog just because i hand-wrote all the HTML https://w7apk.com
#
petermolnar I used to have my site like that, about 18 years ago...
#
KartikPrabhu that rests on the incorret assumption that "personal entries" != "collection of interesting things"
#
petermolnar aaronpk that is exactly the type of site it's talking about
#
petermolnar KartikPrabhu it is not an incorrect assumption
#
petermolnar a collection is not a diary
#
aaronpk also i think http://werd.io is a great example of quirky home page that is still a blog
#
KartikPrabhu I still hand write all mt HTML
#
KartikPrabhu it also reads as "everyone who didn't know how to write HTML broke the Web"
#
petermolnar which does have truth in it
#
petermolnar although I'd blame MySpace
#
KartikPrabhu this is getting too elitist for me. back to writing science
neilpdx and khatru joined the channel
#
petermolnar this is a very interesting entry in my opinion
#
petermolnar (an interesting counter-example might be http://ubu.com/ which went against the past ~20 years of the web by keeping it the same)
ricmac joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu "against the past ~20 years of the web" also means igonoring good things like responsive design, good typography etc...
#
KartikPrabhu which is the problem I have with "old is good, new is bad" arguments
#
neilpdx Kartik your name sounds familiar. Did you present at PyCon 2017?
#
KartikPrabhu neilpdx: no might be another Kartik :P
#
neilpdx ok never mind
#
KartikPrabhu no worries. also I am not a dev so unlikely I'll be at any of these conferences
#
neilpdx oic
#
neilpdx what about the indie web convention which was last week? did you go
#
KartikPrabhu no I couldn't make it. I was at the 2014 one in NYC though
#
neilpdx nice
#
neilpdx i didn't go even though i live in the city where it was held
#
neilpdx i have met aaron once though
#
petermolnar KartikPrabhu indeed there are good things, I never argued that
#
KartikPrabhu you should IWS is a lot of fun
#
neilpdx right
#
petermolnar and sure responsive design is one of them
#
Loqi yea!
#
KartikPrabhu petermolnar: so I am again not sure what the argument is.
#
petermolnar however... (sorry for the language, it's a satire) http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ is also responsive...
#
petermolnar the argument is that chronological order is the expected everywhere and got rid of other ways of displaying things
#
KartikPrabhu petermolnar: yeah, and it is hard to read since the line length is too long, and it has no images so it is easier ;)
#
petermolnar resize the browser :P :)
#
[miklb] that’s fluid, not necessarily responsive
#
KartikPrabhu [miklb]: yup
#
KartikPrabhu petermolnar: most websites are "diaries" and so reverse-choronological makes sense. You can design you site however you like, so I don't see why that is a problem
#
[miklb] I get the argument that “blog design” stymied creativity in personal websites. But to blame it on open source CMSes I don’t buy
#
petermolnar https://wordpress.org/about/philosophy/ - "Decisions, not Options" - oh, I do blame them for a few things
#
KartikPrabhu [miklb]: exactly. more like one format too hold and everyone decided it was easier to emulate. But that is hardly an argument for "blogs killed eerything holy and good"
bgrrtt joined the channel
#
petermolnar that wasn't the conclusion; it was chronological ordering killed most of the weird
#
[miklb] me trying to buck the right sidebar design aesthetic 12 years ago ? http://web.archive.org/web/20051207035820/http://www.miklb.com:80/blog/
sketchess and camerongray joined the channel
#
@SvenSeebeck Exploring the various plugins and services related to Indieweb. This is all very interesting. There is still ... https://svens.blog/2017/07/02/361158683/ (twitter.com/_/status/881261027916222464)
KartikPrabhu and KartikPrabhu1 joined the channel
#
aaronpk aw i kind of miss that aesthetic
#
[miklb] I fixed one too many broken Kubrick themes
#
KartikPrabhu1 petermolnar: still don't understand. If you know how to write HTML do whatever you want with your site. Let the people who don't know HTML or don't want to spend a lot of time on it, use CMS designs with the "blog design"
#
petermolnar KartikPrabhu1 it's it the article: deviating from the templates was hard
#
petermolnar it's still a problem with WordPress
#
KartikPrabhu petermolnar: if you knew how to use HTML you wouldn't need templates
#
KartikPrabhu the blog tools are for people who didn't want to or could not spin up their own servers and HTML
#
petermolnar but if you're inside a cms it's hard to change the basic parts, eg. menu, headers, etc
#
petermolnar unless you want to deal with a custom page/taxonomy/etc template which you need to write
#
KartikPrabhu look what I did to Blogger http://paralleltransport.blogspot.com/
#
petermolnar which is PHP and CMS custom mockery
#
[miklb] I’d rather a chronological blog that looked like every other blog than Facebook
#
aaronpk whoa
#
aaronpk KartikPrabhu++
#
Loqi kartikprabhu has 147 karma in this channel (151 overall)
#
KartikPrabhu petermolnar: tech people are not forced to use a CMS
#
petermolnar KartikPrabhu no, they are not, but back than these tools were Shiny and Easy
#
petermolnar which is lucrative
#
petermolnar even for tech people
#
KartikPrabhu exactly, so the problem is people who know HTML and CSS opting for the "Easy way" which frankly is their problem
#
petermolnar this was never questioned
#
KartikPrabhu no, but the blame is shfted on tools
#
KartikPrabhu tools are not the problem here
#
petermolnar wait; wait; tools _can_ be a problem if there is no easy way to stop using them
awolf joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu petermolnar: there is an easy way to stop using them. write your own HTML
#
petermolnar and migrate all the content?
#
KartikPrabhu if you don't know HTML you wouldn't have anything on the Web without these tools
#
KartikPrabhu petermolnar: sure if you feel like it
#
petermolnar that is EXACTLY the problem: to migrate away is a huge effort, especially if you already made efforts to migrate in
#
petermolnar I know this problems way too well
#
petermolnar leaving WordPress behind was HARD and time consuming
#
petermolnar nobody forced me to use it
#
KartikPrabhu that is not the argument that article was making anyway
#
petermolnar I made that choice initially
#
petermolnar yes, it was
#
petermolnar it was part of it
#
KartikPrabhu nothing about migration and exporting afaik
#
petermolnar not with these words.... let me find the sentence
#
[miklb] is beginning to regret sharing that link in channel ?
#
petermolnar [miklb] don't, I'm glad you did
#
KartikPrabhu [miklb]: sparking a discussion is good :)
#
KartikPrabhu we don't all have to agree on everything
#
[miklb] I agree with that
tantek joined the channel
#
@schmarty Your < 15min update on the #IndieWeb community! This Week in the IndieWeb audio edition for June 24-30th. https://martymcgui.re/2017/07/01/173327/ (twitter.com/_/status/881265123519856640)
#
petermolnar "But they’d already switched. They’d already spent all that time and energy and optimism. To switch back, they’d have to go through that process all over again. Only worse, of course, because they’d have to build the new (old) site completely from scratch. They had no tool to give it shape."
#
@huffduffer This Week in the IndieWeb Audio Edition • June 24th - 30th, 2017 https://huffduffer.com/schmarty/416202 (twitter.com/_/status/881265268105904128)
#
KartikPrabhu sure, simply view source and save the HTML then change the CSS
#
aaronpk oh i can't wait to listen to this
#
KartikPrabhu migrating between CMSs is hard, not from CMS to HTML
#
petermolnar many of the tools you can use, by choice, will result in a lock-in to that format, to that specific way of doing things
#
petermolnar and if it's the first of it's kind, the danger is ever bigger
#
petermolnar we're talking about 18-19 years ago
#
petermolnar wget didn't even have half of the current options
#
KartikPrabhu oh then curl the webpage and save the HTML
#
petermolnar it was hard
#
sketchess thank you Loqi
#
Loqi sketchess: petermolnar left you a message 8 hours, 15 minutes ago: when you say "not leaving someone out" - do you mean technical/technological or philosophical? For technical, there are standards, for example, to make screen readers work (look for microformats, schema.org, dublin core, etc.), and we do not exclude any, only encourage some over others. From the philosophical point of view... well, when you decide to belong somewhere you give up some freedom by accepting group decisions,
#
Loqi sketchess: petermolnar left you a message 8 hours, 11 minutes ago: (continued from the cut sentence) but never turned anyone off who wanted to participate.
#
KartikPrabhu sure, but why blame the site design asthetic
#
petermolnar KartikPrabhu have you tried using linux before 2k?
#
sketchess woah, what just happend?
#
KartikPrabhu petermolnar: yes
#
petermolnar (you mentioned curl)
#
petermolnar can you recall how limited it was,
#
KartikPrabhu and I was 13
#
petermolnar ?
#
KartikPrabhu it wasn't limited if you knew the command line
#
KartikPrabhu the GUI was lacking
#
KartikPrabhu which is my point if you are tech-savvy then blaming the tools is just lazy
#
petermolnar sketchess Loqi is a chatbot which can forward messages when you say "!tell [username] (message)" so when the next time the user appears - says something -, Loqi replays the message
#
KartikPrabhu if you are not tech-savvy then you have no option but to use the "shiny" tools like CMSs and windows
#
sketchess Is there anything Loqi can't do?
tantek joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu Loqi can you do everything?
#
[miklb] it’s not very good at bringing me donuts
#
petermolnar :D
#
KartikPrabhu Loqi: give [miklb] donuts
#
petermolnar sudo Loqi bring me donuts
#
[miklb] lol
#
aaronpk gives Loqi some donuts
#
Loqi hearts the donuts
#
petermolnar "Loqi doesn't share!"
#
KartikPrabhu gives Loqi donuts to give to [miklb]
#
petermolnar sketchess obviously Loqi is limited in capabilities, but it's a pretty smart bot for sure
#
sketchess Yeah I can see that.
#
aaronpk oh gosh, well this is new. new twitter account got locked within a minute, and it's not letting me add my phone number because "This phone number is registered with another account."
#
aaronpk but it used to let me use an existing phone number
#
tantek they've caught onto you! :)
#
sketchess He gives Karma points too. It works like 'likes' I guess.
#
KartikPrabhu Twitter's gonna Twit
#
petermolnar KartikPrabhu I agree with your last statement, but I do believe that, without realizing the "danger", some tools can lead to lock-in, from which it's hard to return or change; mostly because our time is limited.
#
tantek see I remember when they did *not* allow for multiple accounts on a single phone #. maybe they reverted
#
sketchess answer: personal based decision
#
tantek aaronpk, worth posting a small note about that apparent observed change, and especially the "got locked within a minute"
#
bear all tech goes thru those cycles of use: small user count; focused/targeted; lots of implied knowledge knowledge -- medium user count; the beginnings of UX consolidation; -- high user count; UX becomes shared knowledge; the best tech very rarely gets selected for mass consumption
#
KartikPrabhu bear: exactly
#
sketchess listening to podcast
#
petermolnar bear that looks frighteningly similar to the first few chapters of Foundation
#
bear there are very few examples of best tech that make it to the last part because normally it's the better branded tech that wins, not the better solutino
#
bear petermolnar - Asimov shaped a lot of my world view if i'm honest
#
petermolnar and for the better branded... DEC vs IBM
#
KartikPrabhu do we have the 3 laws of indieweb tech?
#
bear Dos/Windows vs OS 2
#
bear CP/M vs DOS
#
bear I could go on and on
#
petermolnar 3 laws of indieweb (and, eventually, we'll find the 0.)
#
petermolnar tantek? aaronpk?
#
aaronpk there's even text in the settings that still indicate it's possible to add a number to multiple accounts! "Only the account most recently linked to this phone number can receive SMS notifications."
#
sketchess cool, like radio news :)
#
aaronpk oh ffs, i deleted my number from my main account, and now i can't even add it back there because it's still on a bunch of other accounts!
#
aaronpk attempts to remove his phone number from all his other accounts
#
bear 1. IndieWeb may not be closed or, through inaction, allow the adoption of a closed stack; 2. IndieWeb must be inclusive and open, except where such behaviour would conflict with the First law; 3. IndieWeb must be flexible in it's definition as long as such flexibilty does not conflict with the First or Second laws
#
bear first draft of the Three Laws of IndieWeb
amz3 joined the channel
#
[miklb] bear++
#
Loqi bear has 134 karma in this channel (186 overall)
bgrrtt joined the channel
#
aaronpk bear++
#
Loqi bear has 135 karma in this channel (187 overall)
#
aaronpk argh, can't find the twitter account that still has my number in it
#
bear you have so many, I can't imagine that's a simple search
#
KartikPrabhu ^ silo account management tax
#
aaronpk remembers he has an alternate GV number
#
sketchess Well martymcgui I love your service. XD ^^thought
bgrrtt joined the channel
#
sketchess Wow midnight. Good morning and good evening. Sweet dreams.
davidmead, KartikPrabhu, awolf and [miklb] joined the channel
#
[miklb] quasi related to my last link https://twitter.com/ideasinfood/status/881286530068860929
#
@ideasinfood how is a blog defined? rather how is a blog defined today? (twitter.com/_/status/881286530068860929)
ricmac joined the channel