#indieweb

2017-07-16

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sl007
hello, world
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sl007
security issue: Shouldn't the W3C demand `https` from any official WHOIS service ? E.g. http://whois.nic.me has NO https …
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sl007
Or the IANA or whoever is responsible ..
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Zegnat
sl007 aren't whois records basically public knowledge? Does public knowledge require an encryption layer?
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Zegnat
Also: good morning IndieWeb!
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sl007
Zegnat : The problem here is that when a domain request would be submitted and somebody sniffs it, they know about our desire for a domain and could park it.
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sl007
it is not about content but about request
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sl007
Zegnat : Not sure about the english term - "domain snatching" ?
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Zegnat
Sure. But you could just use something like command line nslookup, right?
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Zegnat
If nslookup gives you NXDOMAIN the domain is probably free, good enough cursory check. And this goes via your DNS provider, which you already seem to trust as you are using them to tell you what server goes with what domain.
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Zegnat
brb, breakfast
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jeremycherfas
Good morning Indieweb
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sl007
Zegnat But both can be entirely different. Whois finds the owner of the IP addresses (ARIN). Nslookup
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sl007
queries DNS for the associated domain name. And there should be a possibility (not must) to query both secure.
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jeremycherfas
Re https://chat.indieweb.org/2017-07-16/1500184521716000 — all done.
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Loqi
[[chrisaldrich]] jeremycherfas I think that https://instagram-atom.appspot.com might also output this kind of feed for you.
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jeremycherfas
https://www.jeremycherfas.net/blog/set-my-photos-free
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Loqi
Set my photos free
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jeremycherfas
Snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 278 karma in this channel (290 overall)
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Zegnat
sl007, but if you are afraid of squatters grabbing the domain before you, all you are interested in is if a domain is free. nslookup is *almost* as good at checking that as whois. Though I agree whois over HTPS would be nice.
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Zegnat
jeremycherfas nice! Follow all the people where you want to follow them :D
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sketchess
Good morning Loqi.
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sketchess
Good morning Indieweb.
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jeremycherfas
Zegnat: I suppose Woodwind would let me like direct from the feed, but that’s too much for me now.
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sketchess
I found your 'appear' link and tried the other service with my browser, Zegnat. Compared to jitsy it is not my first choice for HWC. Firefox and jitsi go better together.
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Zegnat
sketchess how so? I use Firefox exclusively for WebRTC stuff and appear.in works as easily for me as jitsi meet does
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Zegnat
jeremycherfas, sometimes consuming is the main goal by itself. I definitely consume a lot more media than I actively interact with
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jeremycherfas
Zegnat: Oh, for sure. In IG I definitely look at far more photos than I like, and I like far more than I comment on. So that friction really isn’t an issue.
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sketchess
I do not know why it restarts as soon as I touch something. I can not really use it, not even mute or unmute, Zegnat. And even if I gave permission to microphone and camera it acts odd.
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Zegnat
Can you try in an anonymous browser window, sketchess?
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sketchess
Please explain a bit further, I am not sure if I am on the right track of understanding.
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sketchess
What do you mean by 'anonymous'?
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sketchess
/me gives it another shot
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sketchess
-.- at least it lets me mute the microphone this time without througing me out. Most buttons are dead, Zegnat.
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Zegnat
/me opens firefox to see what it is called
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Zegnat
“private window” is what Firefox calls it. That’s what I use for all the WebRTC stuff. Can’t tell you where it is in your menu, as you are on Windows and I am not
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sketchess
Display is half cut of, too. Hmmm.
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sketchess
How is your experience with jitsi so far?
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sketchess
/me tries private window mode
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Zegnat
Jitsi’s camera view was weird once we got multiple people in there, and it seemed to really stress some CPUs (i.e. petermolnar’s)
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Zegnat
So for our “photo” moment we switched to appear.in, and that made a difference both in quality and display
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sketchess
Don't saw both in action yet.
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sketchess
Woah. What a difference.... o.O
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sketchess
/me checks the buttons
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Zegnat
It does seem like the US guys are having a good time with Hangouts, so we might try that at some point. Maybe I am just inherently biased against Google.
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sketchess
it still just let me mute audio and I still have half of the buttons below, but everything is on place now
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sketchess
hah, I could create a room now, hahahaha.... that works too
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Loqi
sketchess: lol
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sketchess
-.- it throughs everything around again..... looks like I lost privat mode on the way then
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sketchess
videyo was the best one so far for me
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Zegnat
That’s client software though. The idea is not to require people to install software. Else sknebel and I would have been pushing mumble
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sketchess
aha
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sketchess
to google you will not get me back either tihihihihi
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Zegnat
appear.in isn’t perfect either. It had the same issue as talky where not everyone in the call would be able to connect to eachother. (Especially Lukas and I.)
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Zegnat
So if you know any better platforms for online video conferencing, do let us know and we can give it a try!
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sketchess
I will be fine with appear + private mode. We will not get harmed by no camera access. ;)
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Zegnat
I have my camera turned off almost always, to keep my internet costs down. So no problems there.
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sketchess
And I am a shy person anyway, hahahah.
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sketchess
Will the service be charged?
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Zegnat
I am on a mobile data plan, so basically every MB is sacred
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sketchess
ok, so that means appear is free to use
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Zegnat
Yes, everything we discuss is free to use
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Zegnat
Just your own internet costs apply, and mine are… high
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sketchess
hmmm, looks like most services require to download something or at least making an account. interesting
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sketchess
Had you to register for appear or jitsi, Zegnat?
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sketchess
to keep the room
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sketchess
ah, that's how it works (jitsi).... it's like a Demo^^
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Zegnat
sketchess, I had no reason to register the room on my name, so no, I have not registered anywhere
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sketchess
I see why you prefer appear.in, Zegnat. Ok.
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sketchess
yeah not requested
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sketchess
Didn't saw any other like the both so far.
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petermolnar
what is mumble?
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Loqi
Mumble is an open-source voice chat platform https://indieweb.org/Mumble
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petermolnar
:sigh: mumble download button is js...
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petermolnar
Zegnat if mumble is simple voip, why not linphone?
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petermolnar
although I'm uncertain if linphone knows confcals
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petermolnar
calls
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petermolnar
ok, it's not a simple voip client for certain
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petermolnar
forget it
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petermolnar
(linphone)
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petermolnar
so for me, mumble would be fine
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sketchess
I would not mind to install something. *thought
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petermolnar
a long while ago I thought I'll be a webrtc advocate, but it's been weird and - probably due to codecs and hd/fhd webcam resolutions - way too cpu insensive
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petermolnar
I'm slowly realizing I'd rather go back to qvga res and the old skype, just please someone get it working easily, reliably and without burning down or drainig the battery in 1 hour of a laptop
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Zegnat
I imagine clients should be able to let the user pick at what bitrate they want to push their webcam right? They just don’t allow for it most of the time, defaulting to “best possible”, which is both heavy on encoding (CPU) and bandwidth
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petermolnar
they should, just noone bothers doing it, since everybody wants the best resolution!
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petermolnar
battery life, meh
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sketchess
Did you use vidyo yet, petermolnar?
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petermolnar
yes, I did
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petermolnar
surprisingly pleasant experience
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sketchess
you were faster ;)
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sketchess
for me better than skype ten times
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Zegnat
I too was surprised by Vidyo. Loads of bandwidth settings available too, which I appreciated a lot. But Vidyo isn’t really consumer software.
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sketchess
why not?
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sketchess
only thing that bothered me that it automactically wants to start when pc gets turned on
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Zegnat
Vidyo is enterprise software, AFAIK. It probably cost Mozilla a non-insubstantial sum to get all their conference rooms outfitted. I don’t believe we can set-up a Vidyo conference for IndieWeb just at the snap of our fingers.
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sketchess
how pity
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sketchess
hmmmm what about good old chat software.... wasn't it later possible to do it with ones like msn or icq or so?
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Zegnat
Sure, that’s what petermolnar means with wanting the old Skype back ;)
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sketchess
I like the 'old skypes' way better than the new ones. grrrrr they changed it once again. It tries to force me into google or microsoft accouts now.... no thank you, I rather die.
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Zegnat
IndieAdvertisement: https://daringfireball.net/2017/07/df_display_ads - I hope Gruber succeeds on that model
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sketchess
/me has no own skype, let the account deleted 5 years ago ;)
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sketchess
I do not even have to watch youtube videos into youtube anymore. xD No Silos for me.
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sketchess
/me having a beark
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sketchess
re
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sketchess
Huh, appear does have a short cut to mute or unmute audio, but does not have any for video. How odd.^^
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Zegnat
For muting and unmuting yourself? That might be their way of supporting push-to-talk
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sketchess
Well now I have at least a letter, if the buttons disappear. *lol*
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petermolnar
that article of [chrisaldrich] got me thinking that though posts are definitely a problem for filter bubble algorithms maybe events are just as much of a problem, yet event cross-posting is niche even within the indieweb community; I'm guessing mostly because of the lack of tools
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petermolnar
none of the WordPress event plugins I know of have capabilities to do this, for example
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@scott_gruber
@indiewebcamp are web mentions appropriate for numerous content types like articles, books, recipes and pages, or primarily for blogs? (twtr.io/1TyZR3G9umQ)
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@petermolnar
@scott_gruber @indiewebcamp #webmention is not restricted to content types, it's only a notification and… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886598952044433408 (twtr.io/1Ty_sVSPVGo)
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@petermolnar
@scott_gruber @indiewebcamp also see http://indieweb.org/post_type#Kinds_of_Posts for current solutions, including RSVPs, recepies, reads, checkins, etc. (twtr.io/1Ty_xGrFXcb)
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@scott_gruber
@indiewebcamp Sending a Webmention is not limited to blog posts & can be used for additional kinds of content & res… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886599368236650497 (twtr.io/1Tya1QezJUH)
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@scott_gruber
@petermolnar @indiewebcamp Thanks Peter. I’m reading the spec and the write up here. https://indieweb.org/Webmention-developer (twtr.io/1TyaCrnULkt)
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@scott_gruber
I'm reading about Implementing Webmentions in @grabaperch by @drewm cc @indiewebcamp. https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (twtr.io/1Tyb2eq18yf)
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "Implementing Webmentions" https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions (from https://aaronparecki.com/2017/07/16/4/)
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sketchess
see ya around
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sl007
about webmentions https://allinthehead.com/retro/378/implementing-webmentions
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Loqi
[Drew McLellan] Implementing Webmentions
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@sl007
@drewm webmention, websub and micropub belong to the building blocks of http://indieweb.org - join us https://indieweb.org/2017/Dortmund 🔥 CAMPFIRE (twtr.io/1TyoK4VmwCp)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Virtual HWC Europe" by Jeremy Cherfas on 2017-07-12 https://stream.jeremycherfas.net/2017/virtual-hwc-europe
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Hi Chris, I unfortunately must correct my opinion about my solution of "having read posts" by means of google books iframes - these posts load" by Andreas Petersell on 2017-07-16 http://www.petersell.com/2017/hi-chris-i-unfortunately-must-correct-my-opinion-about-my
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Zegnat
Thank you superfeedr, but that event has gone.
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TheGillies
what's a good tool for sending webmentions?
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TheGillies
only one tool under tools on webmention wiki page hrm.
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[miklb]
that’s a little trickier with static sites as the post needs to exist before the mention can be sent
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Zegnat
telegraph is good
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Zegnat
What is telegraph?
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Loqi
Telegraph is an open source API and service for sending webmentions, part of the p3k suite https://indieweb.org/Telegraph
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[miklb]
when I ran Jekyll, used a Rake task to send the mention after the build/deploy
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Zegnat
Telegraph lets you send Webmentions for any page. Though I am unsure if it has an API or if you must du it manually
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TheGillies
I want to do it manually
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TheGillies
all my content is hand crafted. I don't even use a static site generator like jekyll
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aaronpk
there are some command line tools
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aaronpk
the hardest part is finding the webmention endpoint, other than that it's just a POST request
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TheGillies
telegraph looks like what I'm looking for
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aaronpk
https://indieweb.org/Webmention-developer#Sending
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TheGillies
I like telegraph because it's hosted. I'm avoiding code on purpose heh
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TheGillies
https://academics.skidmore.edu/blogs/flip/?p=113
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petermolnar
or just use cURL
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Zegnat
I have used Telegraph too, when I wanted to send multiple webmentions at once. Else I use cURL.
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TheGillies
anyone have a minimal snippet of webmention post that includes requisite fields to display properly? like username avatar etc?
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TheGillies
Looking at linked posts non of that is in the h-entry itself yet still manages to propagate
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TheGillies
none of that*
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aaronpk
like to receive comments?
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TheGillies
to send comments
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TheGillies
I'm crafting a like to someone
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TheGillies
but it's not showing up
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aaronpk
oh, you can try testing with https://webmention.rocks to see at least whether you're sending it correctly
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Zegnat
Just example HTML for a like? https://licit.li/592dbd6c53caa
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TheGillies
aaronpk: which test #?
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TheGillies
Zegnat: thnx
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aaronpk
any of them will work for this purpose
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aaronpk
they're actually more about testing whether your webmention client can find the webmention endpoint correctly, but if you're sending via telegraph it does that all for you
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TheGillies
the problem is my markup
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TheGillies
your site accepts it, but it looks like shite because it's just an empty avatar with no text anywhere lol
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@pgbovine
I feel really old. I just learned that this was a thing https://indieweb.org -- I had just assumed everyone did this (twtr.io/1Tz5qu26rA3)
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aaronpk
hmm, i don't think we have a validator specifically for these types of posts
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aaronpk
https://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/ is close but won't check for the "u-like-of" property
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TheGillies
most of my mentions are going to be likes since I can't be bothered to write a proper post
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Zegnat
Does XRay do likes, aaronpk? That might be the nicest testing tool for how your markup is parsed
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aaronpk
yeah it'll parse likes. it won't tel you waht's wrong but at least it's a bit easier to test that way
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aaronpk
tho it'll cache what's at the URL so you'll have to enter the HTML into the box if you're making changes quickly https://xray.p3k.io/
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Zegnat
TheGillies: try your markup (or link to post) here http://xray.p3k.io/
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Zegnat
Aah, alright, do what aaronpk says and don’t use link :p
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@m_ott
@brad_frost @drewm @pfefferle Aaaand also an #IndieWeb plugin: https://de.wordpress.org/plugins/indieweb/ (twtr.io/1TzE8QUq1jY)
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Loqi
[superfeedr] "Hi Chris, I unfortunately must correct my opinion about my solution of "having read posts" by means of google books iframes - these posts load" by Andreas Petersell on 2017-07-16 http://petersell.com/2017/hi-chris-i-unfortunately-must-correct-my-opinion-about-my
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tantek
good weekend #indieweb
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GWG
tantek: Weekend?
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tantek
:)
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tantek
interesting perspective on /longevity. Thread: https://twitter.com/holden/status/886004325603921920
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@holden
If you want to keep your past around, fine. But don't do it b/c it's the default of a corp platform http://kinlane.com/2017/07/14/i-flushed-the-last-nine-years-of-my-facebook-profile/ (twtr.io/1Tv2T_waw5L)
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tantek
https://twitter.com/holden/status/886004655641186305
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@holden
Like Audrey and Kin, I've been slowly deleting the footprint of my past, and I'm realizing we've been brainwashed into keeping this stuff. (twtr.io/1Tv2_eNSDyR)
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tantek
interesting criticism: https://twitter.com/holden/status/886005215677173760
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@holden
The fact so many of these tools make bulk deleting hard should scare the heck out of you. Why do you think they make it hard? (twtr.io/1Tv2mea5S2f)
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tantek
Hadn't heard this expression before: https://twitter.com/holden/status/886006545678389249
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@holden
@mathpunk And honestly socmed death is the great equalizer. At some point Twitter will die and it will all be gone anyway. (twtr.io/1Tv3F9ydU7V)
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tantek
what is socmed death
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "socmed death" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10p7
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tantek
socmed death is /site-death
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Loqi
ok
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tantek
found via https://twitter.com/mathpunk/status/886007796885405696
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@mathpunk
@holden I'm finally getting to the point I can soon go #indieweb and host these dumb little half-poems myself. I think it's worth doing. (twtr.io/1Tv3gz2PYgb)
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prtksxna
tantek: The linked blog post (and the others on the blog) are very interesting too. Thanks for sharing.
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tantek
prtksxna: indeed! this article is quite interesting http://kinlane.com/2017/07/14/i-flushed-the-last-nine-years-of-my-facebook-profile/
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prtksxna
/me nods
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prtksxna
Whoa! I just discovered Google's bookmarking service - https://www.google.co.in/save/me?hl=en
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tantek
I think that article contains a lot of clues to future transitions for various indieweb efforts. From POSSEing, to purging all but the most recent posts.
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tantek
Kind of like treating social media silos as nothing more than an ephemeral RSS feed, with only the past year's worth of posts.
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prtksxna
I guess we'll eventually also need Archive on Own Site Delete on Silos - AOSDOS?
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tantek
it's more like the complement to backfill
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tantek
what is backfill
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Loqi
backfill is the action of importing all your past posts, typically from a social media silo, into your own site https://indieweb.org/backfill
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tantek
the post uses the word "cleaning" several times
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tantek
so perhaps it's as simple as that, social media cleaning
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prtksxna
Ah, I meant more like, when you're already POSSEing, you'd eventually want to clean that up by deleting on silos
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tantek
what is ephemeral
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Loqi
Expiring content is content that is only temporarily (ephemerally) relevant, and also part of a larger post, that can and should be (preferably automatically) removed once a particular datetime has passed (the expiration date) https://indieweb.org/ephemeral
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prtksxna
/me nods
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tantek
it sounds like we're talking about expiring POSSE copies
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prtksxna
Its not that the content is "temporarily (ephemerally) relevant", but that you don't want it to stick around for that long. I don't know, maybe the same thing.
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tantek
when indieweb sites are able to keep their own copies of both original posts and all (perhaps backfed) responses to those posts, then there is little reason to keep old posts around on silos
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tantek
one reason to keep POSSE copies may be for datetime-proof, e.g. you can prove you were the first person to use a hashtag or define a term on twitter
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tantek
although you could use archive.org for that too
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prtksxna
/me nods
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tantek
another reason is search discovery, that is, when someone happens to search a silo for something (e.g. a twitter hashtag search), to have them discover your public posts
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prtksxna
Right. Depends on how much silo search matters to you.
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tantek
yes, I expect the decision is personal
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tantek
if you build /onthisday functionality, then you don't need FB to tell you what you were doing a year (or more) ago
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prtksxna
Is there an example of a 'bookmark' post which also has multiple h-cites ie quotes from the article? I'd like to see both the presentation and the correct (mf2) markup to do this.
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tantek
however, your year or older posts that have *other* people tagged in them will show up in those other peoples's fb.com/onthisday - so it depends on whether you care about that or not
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prtksxna
/me likes the onthisday idea/functionality
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tantek
silo-quits << 2017-07-14 [http://kinlane.com/2017/07/14/i-flushed-the-last-nine-years-of-my-facebook-profile/ I Flushed The Last 9 Years Of My Facebook Profile] <blockquote>I flushed the the last 9 years of my Facebook profile over the last couple of days. Instead of deleting my account, I just cleaned up everything except what I have posted in 2017. In the future I will make it a yearly ritual to flush the previous year of my
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tantek
Facebook profile</blockquote>
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Loqi
ok, I added "2017-07-14 [http://kinlane.com/2017/07/14/i-flushed-the-last-nine-years-of-my-facebook-profile/ I Flushed The Last 9 Years Of My Facebook Profile] <blockquote>I flushed the the last 9 years of my Facebook profile over the last couple of days. Instead of deleting my account, I just cleaned up everything except what I have posted in 2017. In the future I will make it a yearly ritual to flush the previous year of my" to the "See Also" section of /silo-quits
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prtksxna
Need to consolidate 'See also' and 'See Also' on that page :/
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tantek
prtksxna: looks like the hashtag #DigitalCleanse has also been used for this sort of thing: https://indieweb.org/silo-quits#See_Also
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tantek
yup - consolidated :)
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prtksxna
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 221 karma in this channel (369 overall)
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prtksxna
/me nods
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tantek
what's a good way to politely reply to this? or is there a way? https://twitter.com/pgbovine/status/886685658017800203
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@pgbovine
I feel really old. I just learned that this was a thing https://indieweb.org -- I had just assumed everyone did this (twtr.io/1Tz5qu26rA3)
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tantek
(see thread)
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prtksxna
tantek: I think they aren't able to understand the depth. The W3 specs and such. Maybe refute the assumption by pointing out that a lot of people prefer posting on other's sites (like twitter), without pointing out the irony, and then maybe a link to http://indieweb.org/building_blocks.
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tantek
prtksxna: this isn't the first time we've seen this response to the home page material by folks who have some knowledge of past similar trends / behaviors
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prtksxna
Maybe it deserves a page on the wiki (with good possible responses)? Such people are mostly supporters who don't know it?
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tantek
yes, that's a good positive assumption
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prtksxna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor etc
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tantek
the challenge is that even the home page has that information "Beyond Blogging" right there
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tantek
so it's doubtful that a separate page would help, since even on the home page itself
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tantek
they didn't see it
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prtksxna
I meant a separate wiki page for us, when we encounter these people, and how best to deal with it :)
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tantek
yes, perhaps like an FAQ we can use
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prtksxna
/me nods
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